It’s All Falling Apart For Elon Musk, Tesla & SpaceX

I wish, but it’s not.

I mean it might be. It's definitely too early to declare that, but this article is going to look prescient if today's stock dip turns into a plunge.

Just watched Last week tonight's twitter episode. So cringy watching Elon try to explain whatever bull shit he comes up with trying out "60 Trillion Cells in the human body" and "Understand our place in the cosmos" like a drunk college kid figuring out why his keys won't work on the wrong floor of the dorm .

Tesla P/E ratio after this dip: 373!

You convinced me with logic.

No, it‘s not. Musk is too big too fail. Tesla is a meme stock, but because of his ass-kissing of Trump, the power of Xitter over uninformed right-wing rubes and Space X basically the worst (or greatest?) welfare queen in the history of economics, he is not only on his way to become the first trillionaire, but muöti-trillionaire. Capitalism is like the plague and Musk is just its most prominent pustule.

Michael I loved Jurassic park but Andromeda strain was ahead of its time :p

It’s feels both inevitable and impossible, somehow…

America really has a lot to answer for here. So much of the stock market is predicated on Musk's meme-stocks that there's literally no way to reset them to their true logical value without wiping out trillions from the stock market. That means there's a vested interest across the entire American economy to perpetuate his grift.

Tesla is still worth $1.25 trillion as of this post. It is up 21% YOY. Their sales have plummeted worldwide, the US EV rebates are long gone, the only new vehicle in years is the truck which has been a complete flop. They barely turned a profit last year. The next most valuable car company is Toyota at $368 billion. They have a long history of making safe, reliable cars. They are consistently profitable. There is something we don't know that is propping up that stock price because the financials certainly don't.

I'll believe it when i see it. I'm getting tired of all these articles.

Only if and if democrats win back house/senate then all those mofos are going down and only if democrats grow some balls to prosecute these fucks

Tesla could become a somebody like Enron.

The fundamentals don't matter with Tesla, it has always been about the next "big thing" they will be doing and assumed they will dominate the entire market. They were an electric automaker that was growing. They became a sustainable energy company when they bought solar city. Now they're either a robot taxi company or a robot company depending on the day and the way the wind blows. The valuation never goes down and remains valued like Tesla owns the market in every business. The fundamentals of Tesla are on a downward slope and the company is pouring more money into products that aren't profitable, there is inevitably a reckoning, but the fraud can continue for a long time.

This is the bill coming due for all those index fund 'Free Lunches', turning a huge segment of the stock market into dumb money.

OMG that popped up in my algorithm today and Elon was cringe af. He bought Twitter because he wanted to own the people making fun of him. Watching his brain shut down when he tried to make it about some poetic worldview was hilarious.

What a load of BS lol

If it breaks 390, it's poised to freefall to just over 300, then maybe another big dip if/when that breaks. I wouldn't be surprised to see TSLA lose 50-75% by end of year.

He's definitely becoming more unhinged. The shitposting and promises are becoming more and more absurd. It's pretty clear he has no friends or family life since he's so repulsive.

I remember that feel from before the 2008 real estate collapse. I was 4 years early in my prediction about that but I wasn't wrong.

Check out "micro" it's popcorn eating fun

I was watching an incredible show on the research and study of Jupiter's moons and what we've learned the past few years. It made me realise people like Musk DGAF about the science and discovery, they just want to plant a gigantic "musk" flag on mars and call it their own. It's all ego and zero science.

"The market can be unreasonable longer than you can remain liquid"

Elmo is toxic at this point.

I had to stop watching this guy's videos cause he's become nearly as delusional as Musk Edit: not saying he's wrong usually, just way too much hyperbole and strawman-ing

Don't forget they are also a surveillance company

Classic ceo "puke out a bunch of cliches" and never expect anyone to ask you what you actually mean

No, it's really not.

Have you heard of FSD and cybercab?

Sad

The thing is we can't know when the hammer will drop. But we DO know it WILL drop. Enron was propped up for years and its highest valuation was $70 billion. It was the 7th most valuable company at the time. Tesla is currently the 8th most valuable.

Thank you! 🙏 Life… finds a way.

I fucking hope so.

Probably pedophilia, but your guess is as good as mine.

Nothing in your comment refutes the previous poster's point: >There is something we don't know that is propping up that stock price because the financials certainly don't. At this point, it's pretty safe to assume there is some major fraud going on here somewhere. Musk is clearly full of shit with his pie-in-the-sky promises on his stupid robots and everything else. There's no way the market makers don't see Tesla for what it is. Something more sinister than this being a meme stock is afoot.

Couldn't have happened to a crappier conglomerate of vaporware

Outside of Reddit says otherwise

Michael Scott?

If you'll forgive a bit of self promotion, I did an in depth podcast on exactly this: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1R4Fe9NVFH6tuiJr0huipU?si=SIerTMcgRV-Grw8zivMaBQ&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A4WcRMMpqnpTio5BcFAqBnn One factor is that institutional investors are leaving. But retail investors make up an unusually large portion of shareholders. Mods, pls remove if this is not allowed.

IPO coming

Tesla is a good case to look at and remember that the psychology of the market trumps fundamentals, maybe not all of the time, but enough of the time. The institutions that own Tesla aren't going to sell their positions unless they need to, and right now there isnt a fear that Elon isn't delivering, there isnt a sell off where people rush to the exits to take their profits, and there isnt some precipitous downturn in the economy where entities need cash to service debt. And there isn't some great alternative to invest in. But its been a long time since the market has gone through a real sell off with a lot of pain and protracted recession. And if you think COVID was it then you arent old enough to have been around during a real one. Nothing is safe in a crash. The NASDAQ lost 78% of its value during the dot com bubble burst. When AOL merged with TimeWarner the company was worth over $400b in todays money, more than Netflix and Walmart, by the time AOL was sold to Verizon in 2015 it was worth barely $4B, it all but doesnt exist now. The same thing could happen to Tesla and fast, if the right kind of event kicks off and people flee from companies whose valuations are backed by smoke and mirrors. Until then...

The market overpricing a company based on speculation doesn’t equate to fraud. I agree that Tesla is significantly overvalued but I have thought that same thing for years and years but the market has consistently said otherwise.

One is a car company, the other is a cult. That's the difference in stock price 🤭

SpaceX is not going anywhere anytime soon. Starlink is the only viable large scale satellite internet constellation for another 5 years at minimum until Blue Origin can prove their reusability model. Or if China burns through an enormous cash pile to put up one of their own for national security purposes. SpaceX has the direct to cell vertical that is very nascent. They are the best option for NASA for the moon base development. And despite people not taking Musk seriously for other things, if the data centers in space is feasible, they will get arguably the fattest bag there as well. All of these things that SpaceX has a lead on will only amplify when Starship becomes viable (it will). People doubt Elon at their own great expense.

Yeah, timing it seems impossible… I got bored and asked AI how many cars they’d have to sell to have a P/E of 20… the answer is 35% of all the cars sold in the world. I realize it’s a dumb question… but I was interested. It’s currently worth 1.3 trillion dollars! On under 4 billion of profit. It’s just insane.

I'm still holding my TSLQ... Or at least the half I didn't sell a year ago when that shit PRINTED.

I want to believe..

Wayne Gretzky

I don't think it is true.... It's just people riding the wave with stop loss to get out. But it has run into strong resistance around the 420-450 mark... So it will explode if all the promises come true else it will implode. So with the car sales going no where and doubts over Optimus and robotaxi... At this stage my bet is that it will implode. I would buy leap puts at this stage and just wait . Upside is priced in . Downside isn't. If we in this forum think it is full of shit . It's time to put money in there . The prolonged resistance at this stage to me points to market not buying the schtick any more

Just to put a little valuation difference in context. Toyota sold more cars last year than Tesla has ever. I can't find detailed 2025 numbers, but if the 2024 sale numbers continued, Toyota sold more Corolla than Tesla sold cars.

The stock market is based entirely on hype. It has little to do with the real world anymore.

So so repulsive.

You’re welcome 😊

It already exploded. The price is that high with the assumption that FSD and Servant Robots are going to happen soon.

What meme stocks, Tesla? Tesla has a current market cap of about $1.5 trillion, the total market cap of publicly traded U.S. companies is around $69 trillion. So tesla has a market cap of approximately 2.2% of the U.S. stock market. That being said, while Tesla is huge by market cap, it doesn’t move the broader market the way other mega caps do, because: It’s not priced like a normal company, and It’s not systemically important in the same way as banks, energy giants, or Apple/Microsoft-type companies. That is, the market cap of Tesla can shoot up or move downward and the market doesn’t read the price swings as reflective of the overall U.S. economic environment

It's both scary & reassuring to read someone else having this thought.

Stop teasing me!

> It was the 7th most valuable company at the time. Tesla is currently the 8th most valuable. Soooo - if I'm hearing you right, you are saying buy TSLA, because it can only go up from here? Gotcha buddy, YOLOing now!

Exactly so the upside is priced in.. and so I think the downside is an opportunity to buy long term puts. Already it has slid from 498 to 399 that's a 20 percent drop in. 2 months .. the more he is unable to deliver .. this will slide and then fall...

If you believe this you should short Tesla stock and you will make money if it goes down.

Is there anything good in this video or should I skip it

Tesla is valued higher than the ten biggest carmakers in the world combined but isn‘t even in the top 10 of cars built per year. It‘s ridiculous.

Tesla cooked.....once all these plants go negative. ITS OVER.

This reads like Chartism. What makes 390 and 300 magical numbers?

Meme stock you know.

Most of the idiots here reading are just the normal I hate musk because he is somewhat Conservative. Doubt they have the faintest idea about economy or the stockmarket

\> There is something we don't know that is propping up that stock price I feel like Tesla long ago became a meme stock. Enough zealots or crazies are betting on it, that it in turn gets institutional investors to see something there, and they all bet on it. It's like Bitcoin in a way. There is literally *nothing* behind Bitcoin, right? But we all agree it's worth something, and agree to pay each other for it, so it IS worth something. That's what Tesla stock is at this point. It is it's own, separate speculative investment. People buy and sell the stock, not really thinking or caring about the underlying company, because the stock isn't tethered in any real way to the company. At *some* point there will come an inflection point, where enough people will realize there is no "there there", and the price will start to drop, and it will drop fast and hard. But will that be in 1 month? 1 year? 5 more years? No one knows. And until then, plenty of people want to make more money off of it.

Dude's literally a nazi, been found out. Dude's been caught for election fraud, barely got a slap on the wrist. Dismantled a chunk of the US government, specifically the chunk that helped people. Clearly has more fraud shit going on, always scamming other countries' governments for funding like wtaf. He should be in Guantanamo getting regular beatings for the rest of his miserable pathetic life.

You underestimate the average Republican brain and how many think Elon is literally saving the world. Lot of wealthy Republicans out there to buy the stock too. Not to say there's not any fraud in addition to all that.

Stock market is broken. If they tried to sell Tesla, no one is paying 1.25T for it except maybe SpaceX, which is already busy with the XAI bailout.

"The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent" - John Maynard Keyes

“Worth” Its more of a fucking ponzi scheme than any government program he targeted with doge ill tell you that much.

Yes I have. What about them?

Yes. Support lines @ 390 from several months ago.

so micro, that it is profound. profoundly micro. micro and repulsive. majorly micro, majorly repulsive. profound.

The truth is out there...

too big. too fail. so big, so fail.

Elon musk? Elon dusk.

\> There is something we don't know that is propping up that stock price because the financials certainly don't. Index funds for one. As long as S&P lists it, they have to hold a certain stake in it. I'm sure there are also a bunch of corrupt people in power with a vested interesting in keeping the scam going.

If you follow the money: is there public information of the retail stockholders that hold the most shares? Could shed some light on the players interested in keeping this scam going on.

What is really needed is for the media to get some huevos and start reporting the truth about this sham. Too bad CNBC or some other mainslime noisemedia don't start doing their job as "journalists" instead of just mindlessly repeating the memes.

So it's Chartism?

None of the promises will come true. Lyin' Musk is talking.

This is why I'm not playing TSLA.

Oh no! Anyway...

Musk is a pedo.

That's what she said

When the speculation no longer makes sense, something else has to be at play.

The problem is timing. As the saying goes, the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Ive held off shorting TSLA for years. I nearly pulled the pin after his salute, and again after his stint in doge fell apart, but I was hesitant and trusted my gut, and glad in hindsight. The problem is there are outside forces at work, along side what appears to be fraudulent behaviour on the inside, and shady valuation practices all over it (selling his companies to himself for ludicrous valuations, etc). It's too dangerous a game. Better of with time in the market in traditional holdings with good fundamentals than timing the market on these crazy ass speculative stocks. Could go to fuck all tomorrow, could last another decade. Just no way to predict when the hype bubble bursts.

Is he bribing the fund members to hold?

Nazis are not as unpopular as you might think, apparently.

Elon’s constant promises are fraud. It’s okay to be wrong or over promise occasionally but his history is of predictions can only be interpreted as intentional. *Fraud is a deliberate act (or failure to act) with the intention of obtaining an unauthorized benefit, either for oneself or for the institution, by using deception or false suggestions or suppression of truth or other unethical means, which are believed and relied upon by others.* His statements for the past decade meet this criteria.

No surprise.

this

Going tits up like everything Trump touches later pedo elites

It's the biggest meme stock in history. Among other things, a lot of people made a lot of money on the Tesla run up, and nothing will convince them that it isn't a lock forever to keep doing the same thing. Hodl!!

he bought twitter b/c otherwise their "woke" platform safety team was going to ban his white supremacist / anti-trans / anti-feminist / pandering-to-the-fundies pasty ass

they had 80% of the market. once. it's inevitable they're going to lose market share as more players come into the market. what's wrong with them? having a less percentage of a total market that's growing? I don't know. I think history hasn't been written yet on this. we still have to see what's going to happen over the next 3 years. but it seems like the Chinese are going to take over the market in as long as Tesla can live in a profitable space. continue to innovate and profit off that innovation.

it turned around @ $390 in November for a "reason"

Elon musk is a billionaire. He can “fall apart” and still be a billionaire. All these articles are just clickbait

what he really wants is to capture a metallic asteroid worth ~$2T.

No, most people have Tesla pinned as a massively overvalued stock. The fundamentals are horrific for the company. And he’s not somewhat conservative. He is very far right. Very. And I say that as someone who spent a large portion of their adult life in conservative and republican politics.

Toyota doesn’t even strategize on near term financial metrics. They have a completely different management philosophy centered on sustainable long term contribution. That’s able they’ll stockpile cash and not do a lot of things like buybacks, acquisitions, or large dividends. This allowed them to sustain COVID better than most.  Even the way that they have shared technology to make their competitors better instead of to proliferate standards to their advantage stand in stark contrast to the Tesla Way.  All that to say, probably not the best stock for people looking for near term profits, and it is kind of funny to see them right below their strategic polar opposite: a meme stock with horrible fundamentals.

But the average Republican brain likes their carbon monoxide/dioxide producing cars, and that Elon pays their orange Messiah to be friends otherwise they would have nothing to do with him.

Toyota isn’t just a car company, they are driven by entirely different strategic objectives than almost any company you can name. It’s not a great stock unless you hold it for a very long time. They would rather hoard rainy day cash than do buybacks, large dividends, or acquisitions. It’s frankly good to see a business not hostage to shareholders immediately wants for returns.

I think it would be a challenge to prove his lies are deliberate versus simply delusional and over confident.

Do you really believe it’ll happen at those numbers because of a silly support line? If yes, you will be dumping all your free cash into puts right?

Unless he actually gets arrested, convicted, deported and has his assets confiscated then sadly its not all over for the repulsive Muskrat. I'm not holding my breath for even the first to happen though.

HA-ha!

I don't even click on them. I refuse to give them ad revenue for garbage content.

It seems that a strongly worded apology will suffice these days when you're in the 1% club.

Prey seems more relevant today than when I read it in 2002

Certainly in the Land of the Free (from Consequences)*. No wonder Muskrat chose America to illegally migrate to. *not mine

What’s interesting is that institutions are falling for this stuff. I can see average street investors.

Well we know how irrational this stock is so I wouldn't bet on anything.

Inertia. “Too big to fail”. Number goes up so it’ll keep going up. Most of all it’s the fascinating credulousness that everyone, particularly Wall Street, continues to have with Elon’s promises. It’s like a shared delusion - he’s the world’s richest man so _obviously_ everything he says must be genius and will come true, in spite of all evidence to the contrary.

Money laundry for oligarchs

Remember when Elon criticized Trump early in the presidency and then Tesla's stock dropped by 10%? Somebody was sending him a message to keep his mouth shut.

What’s staggering is that anyone who even scratches below the surface can see that all of the non-car forays that Elon has got into - often, it seems, because he’s unhappy that someone conceived of an idea before he did, or is getting attention that he feels entitled to - are behind the competition. xAI is the least impressive of all the AI companies (and the most problematic), Tesla’s Optimus has never not been teleoperated - it just looks more advanced, more humanoid, because smoke and mirrors works. Ironically the true advantage Tesla/Elon has is the one thing he’s completely uninterested in - electric cars, and electrification generally (energy storage, etc).

Jim Chanos called it a "cult stock," which is probably the best description for it. My personal theory for how we got here is, in late 2015, a SpaceX booster used propulsion to land on earth. That was like the moon landing, for a lot of people, who consistently point to it as proof that Elon can do anything.

My fear is between Tesla and AI when the market does course correct towards business that can actually make money we are all going to be getting fucked at the same time. No one is going to insulate working people from the fallout but you can bet public money will be underwriting the risk for the "too big to fail".

A system rigged by extremest exploiters is propping it up obviously

It doesn't matter what a few people thinks about the markervalue of the company. Why would they care that about that? I so maybe they know how and what shorting is and now they have lost a lot and are angry with him because they don't know how to close their bad gamble? What is so far right about him?

Land of the "Free"\* \*If you're a billionaire and have access to politicians.

Good

Tesla pretends to be a pure tech company. It’s not. It’s just another car company. Uber has tried to do the same but it’s just a taxi company. Companies love to tag themselves as tech companies to get huge valuations but it doesn’t last. Tesla is finding out.

Yea can’t believe I fell for his shit years ago. Glad I snapped outta that

There is room to perhaps do that [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFBw9p3W9AQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFBw9p3W9AQ) SEC suing over twitter [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5PBZTs8fag](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5PBZTs8fag) Representation of self-driving, while selling them anyday now self driving, for years on end. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2B4As2SqQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah2B4As2SqQ) And the fake(never happened, never was going to) self driving thing is going to court not just being yelled about. yadda yadda

What a boring argument. Always saying the same stupid thing over and over, which explains nothing

If he’s that incompetent, then he and his entire board should be sued into oblivion by shareholders. Either way…

I drive a Toyota and will buy another one in about 20 years when this one is worn out. I will never buy a Tesla or support anything Musk does, unless he's taking donations to fund his one way trip to Mars.

Was just thinkin this. My earlier fear was how much of Tesla share was/is held by institutional investment funds. I’m not a super knowledgeable or informed investor, and open to advice. I honestly don’t know where Tesla stands with institutional investors, but it’s a concern. And my other concern was is what percent of the S&P does Tesla actually account for, and how exposed I might be holding an S&P fund. But with my Fidelity S&P 500 fund it’s not in the top ten holdings. But I’m wondering if—say my fund holds 1% in Tesla stock. Does that mean if Tesla were to go all the way to zero, would 1% be the most I could lose due to Tesla?

The market for Starlink is not that large. Fiber optics are much better and serve most people

stealing an election is probably worth a pretty penny.

The fraud right now is in Austin Cathode. They have a bunch of inept Dow managers who got fired from Dow and migrated over there because Tesla offered them $$ to come and fix their quality problem. They haven’t fixed the quality (because again…. Terrible managers) and so now they are getting all of their cathode for their batteries from South Korea (Ronbay). How TERRIBLE for what’s left of their EV’s!!

Enron 2.0 - just a shell game at this point, which sucks because he’s poisoning the valuable parts of his companies

I'm going to simplify this as much as possible. The sheer volume of options trading on TSLA and a phenomenon called "Gamma squeeze" (hedging) keep the share price artificially inflated and disconnected from sales of cars. TSLA trades 2.14 million contracts (calls and puts) per day. More than Nvidia or Apple or indeed most companies. One contract represents 100 shares. That's 214million shares that someone has to hold in order to write a contract against it. 1. Traders buy call options. 2. Market makers buy millions of shares of TSLA stock to hedge. 3. The stock price shoots up because of this forced buying. 4. Because the stock went up, the options get closer to being "in the money" (which increases their Gamma). 5. Market makers are forced to buy even more stock to stay hedged. 6. The stock price shoots up again. Rinse and repeat every single day the market is open. Note: the opposite effect can also occur

It's a meme stock now.  Propped up by fanboys  and Musks connection to this administration.  That's it.  Fun fact that Ford discontinued the Lightning due to poor sales but it still sold more than the cybertruck.

He told everyone he would have half the US blanketed by AVs by the end of 2025. In what? July? He knew that was a total fabrication. Not delusion. Just a straight up whopper lie.

You mean, Uber the, Independent Rideshare Contractor Platform, that also operates an "Independent Contractor Food Delivery Platform" is just a taxi and courier company?

70% of the stock market is controlled by 3 companies.

There has long been rumors of a call buying scheme run by Elon’s home office used to juice the stock in coordination with his influencer network - the rat hole.

I think he is more leveraged and cash strapped than is publicly known and he knows tesla is fucked along with SpaceX. The tin turkey is dead. The next pumps - data centers in space and robots are at risk if the ai bubble pops. There is a non zero chance i will run into him working a dumpster behind a wendy’s protecting his turf from the other r/wsb crew.

Never forget, Musk said he was fucked if Harris won. He knew the walls were closing in. Trump wining was his saviour.

The market can be solvent more than you can be reasonable

It’s pretty much a guarantee that if Trump ever leaves office and the democrats take power he is going to prison. He is not going to do well in prison. He will be a former billionaire in that situation.

The tin turkey is never going to the moon. Shit it’s not even made it into orbit yet and it’s largest payload to date was a banana.

I've been following markets and stocks and companies for years and years and I've never seen anything like this since Enron. The really weird inconsistency for me, is that if they use the same logic on valuation of robotaxi's they use for Tesla, on Waymo, then Google should be 5x the price right now. How is WAYMO not valued at more when it actually functions??

This

You sound confident. How many shares short are you? Have you bought puts?

Wait what? You realize the Index ETFs that hold Tesla are not actively traded right? Does anyone in this sub understand accounting or finance?

Sued for what? If you be held this stock for years your rich. Ohhh no he said they would figure out FSD sooner I should have 20x’d my money instead of 10x’d Courts would laugh you out

So, that would be a no, it’s not going to happen this way at these numbers.

How is it like Enron? There’s no giant amounts of mark-to-market accounting, special purpose entities on their books? They for years misclassified loan transactions as sales. You can’t really do that with cars. VIN registrations don’t lie. Enron reported bridge loans as sales and bought assets back and other insane things.

They'll still find a way to force working taxpayers to subsidize his bullshit.

Tesla, as of today, is 9th on the s&p500 weighted average. Representing 2.42% of the index. Right above Berkshire Hathaway and below Broadcom. So if you own a market cap fund, for every $100 you own, you own $2.42 of Tesla. (Or so)

I think the battery switching scam might also meet the criteria - if i recall he presented that they were making Tesla batteries swop able to get government money. That was apparently never a real thing and it was only done to get the money. I suspect there will be emails, call records etc documenting that somewhere.

I suspect most know its gambling but are expecting Space X to go public and then for it and Tesla to merge.  Most of them seem to view all of Musks businesses as one organisation.

Yes to all of that, but it's not complicated. A lot of wealthy people have a lot of their wealth tied up in Tesla because they know Elon is capable of making them money. The stock market is like sitting at a poker table with opponents that have really deep stacks. You have to play the cards. They're going to play the other players using their overwhelming financial advantage. But here's the thing - unlike poker, even when they lose, they win. If they decide they're going to keep the price of the stock inflated, your only winning move is to buy the stock too at the inflated price. And by you doing that, you just helped them drive the price up even more. If you don't buy the stock, they'll just keep propping it up until someone else will. Elon gives them enough to work with and it's mutually beneficial for him because he has so much wealth tied up in Tesla stock himself. So he keeps doing things that help the ultra wealthy shareholders, they keep driving the price up, and they all win. Meanwhile the people actually playing the financials lose out from trying to short the stock.

The stock price is based on the last price at which the stock was bought and sold.  So, if you have a couple of large players trading some shares back and forth, that can be enough to set the price at a higher level than would reasonably be warranted.   And then when institutional investors and retirement funds automatically buy the S&P500, that further solidifies the stock prices at those levels. I don't know if the scam would need to be much more sophisticated than that.

The sad thing is even if Elmo lost 99% of his wealth he’d still be a billionaire. And therefore poised to start (purchase) a new grift. As much as I’d love Leon to shuffle off to mars, like a cockroach, he’s here to stay sadly

You have a lot of faith in people who so far appear toothless or even complicit

Toyota is a solid company but you need to dig deeper. For fiscal year 2026, Toyota NA will probably lose $1B. Worldwide they are profitable but their US/CDN division took $400M losses for two quarters (anybody guess why?).

How is this even possible? How can they be 21 percent up when literally the sales are hemorrhaging and none of their promises have been met on the technology level. It's fucking amazing to me that this stock exists.

Right but then why isn't Uber or Waymo valued at the same evaluation then? If that's the promise Tesla's shares are built on then it makes no sense why Google wouldn't be worth trillions more since Waymo is so far ahead.

You can make an argument that the market keeps inflating Teslas value because Elon keeps pumping the stock with bullshit deadlines and bullshit promises. You can make a case this shit with FSD and Robotaxi's is borderline Elizabeth Holmes shit now.

Hey I would have thought DOGE would have caught such an obvious thing .... >!/S!<

And after Trump? Assuming it's not Vance, will he still get into trouble?

Canada is getting Chinese cars now and I’m so disappointed 😔 China is way ahead of everyone now. I seriously want Chinese cars come to America so that American car makers can finally have some much needed competition. No more bailouts, you either innovate or die.

The figure i’ve been seeing of his actual liquid wealth is around $850 million.  He has more than $500m in loans. Everything else requires him to liquidate assets/company’s who’s valuation would crash rapidly. And besides he cant spend it at Adx Florence.

At no point have I predicted when this rug gets pulled. I couldn’t begin to speculate.

Are you sure you do..? Being on index funds is no guarantee for a sky high valuation. Ford and GM are also in the index funds.

only if and only if! gotta vote for the people that will say what they will do! otherwise we fucked again.

Musk fans threw a fit when a few years ago NASA posted about Europa and how it wasn't likely that humans would visit there for a long time if ever. They were pissed because Elon showed Starship landing on Europa so therefore NASA was wrong because it was going to happen in our lifetimes and *soon.* It really is a cult.

The more people say the Elon sky is falling the more successful he gets, he just keeps innovating and building. Ever drive a Tesla with self driving? Best car by leaps and bounds. It’s all fine, the more hate the more his business will grow. This is probably the 20th it’s all over post I’ve seen over the past 4 years. The dude can not be stopped. Literally he is unstoppable.

Because Elon musk is hailed as some super genius businessman despite all the evidence to the contrary. He also has a very lax relationship with the truth

Unbreakable rules governing Telsa stock: "The market cannot harm the Elmo except by going 'Beep-Beep!'" "No outside force can harm the Elmo — only his own ineptitude or the failure of the Telsa products." "The Elmo could stop anytime — if he were not a fanatic." "No dialogue ever, except 'Beep-Beep!'" "Telsa must stay on the road — otherwise, logically, he would not be called a Telsa." "All action must be confined to the natural environment of the two characters — the American desert." "All materials, tools, weapons, or mechanical conveniences, must be obtained from the Telsa Corporation." "Whenever possible, make gravity the Elmo's greatest enemy." "Elmo is always more humiliated than harmed by his failures."

That’s the market valuation right now. You Enron was valued at about $70 billion dollars a few months before it crashed. All I’m saying is a point in time valuation doesn’t tell you what will happen in the future.

This is why DOGE went after all of the government agencies he was having trouble with.

I think it’ll be a coin toss on whether he can scam people a second time with SpaceX. On one hand, I think it’s a major mistake taking it public because it’s going to show just how financially screwed X and xAI are. On the other hand, I think there are a lot of investors that want out of their positions on Tesla and its astronomical P/E ratio that’s only going to get worse, but will be happy to roll the dice on more Elon lies.

I guess the poster thinks they lie about the main part of the business that drives the value fsd, robots, underwater cybertruck, bullet proof, funding secured etc Related party transactions probably worth greater scrutiny.

Sorry no 1 why 2 less than the notional 1 if delta hedged 3 depends if the 1 sold stock to replace with calls 5 is delta hedging of otm calls If the value falls they sell. I think you are trying to overthink things imo. Market is driven by momentum as valuations haven't driven returns for a while. People sit in a tesla use FSD think its a Knight industries 2000 and just about to be full autonomous and buy. They care more about the software than the car. And more about autonomy than sales. I think its losing to waymo. Others will say as their unit cost is much lower they can roll out when they perfect fsd. Given the performance so far I wonder if that is possible.

Charles Ponzi paid interest. Please don’t drag his name through the mud by comparing him to Elon Musk

Institutional investors are leaving; retail investors are still buying, telling themselves that Tesla stock is what you hand down to your great-great-great grandchildren. You have a whole generation of useful idiots who spent their teens and twenties hearing that pure silk streams from Elon Musk’s ass. They will be unburdened of these beliefs, along with all their money, in the next few years.

Except SpaceX of course which keeps running rings around the competition. And paypal before that. He may have been on a downward trend for years now, but before that he spent a decade or two building a reputation as a guy you really don‘t want to bet against. Maybe that mythos really will break down in coming months/years, at which point we‘ll likely see the Tesla stock crash through the floor, but for now it seems investors continue to trust him.

Also, a bunch of people *lost* a lot of money betting against Tesla during said run up. Now, we‘re in a situation where people either think the stock will go up forever and they should thus not just hold on but buy more, and people who think it‘s risky but who simply stay away from it rather than trying to short it.

I could actually see a bunch of people selling their Tesla stock to buy into SpaceX, and that triggering the long overdue correction of Tesla‘s market value.

Now if only they hadn‘t completely missed the boat on electric cars and spent far too long clinging to the hydrogen dream instead.

In what way exactly is SpaceX „fucked“?

Tesla still being worth over a trillion dollars is absolute madness…

The SEC was investigating him until he fired the people investigating him via DOGE. To my understanding, it's stock manipulation when a ceo makes empty promises. It's why other ceo's don't make false promises like FSD, robotaxi or a robot that was later found to be controlled by people.

Yeah but he also doesn‘t really spend all that much money by comparison. Like, sure he has a private jet and so on, but at that scale of wealth that‘s really peanuts. Otherwise he‘s not really known as a big spender - compare to Bezos with his megayacht collection. The last thing he‘s known to have spent loads of money on was trump‘s reelection campaign. I think money is not his main motivation.

Going to prison for what exactly?

You should really ask the russian army what they think about that… the military contracts alone will keep starlink printing money.

Genuine question and I am not a conspiracy theorist. What “could” some of these sinister things be.

Tesla is more than 50% owned by insiders and large institutions. That’s a small group of people that have to collide, to commit financial fraud and delay Teslas downfall and they are highly motivated and enabled to do so by the current US government. The downfall seems inevitable at this point though. Elon is no innovator nor a founder. He is a hype machine, nepo-baby, investor and recruiter at best. He decided to lean into LLMs, which is currently burning up cash like nothing, with no clear way of earning that money back. Robotaxis have either strict legal or moral limitations which will make scaling hard, even if the technology is ripe and his humanoid Robots are just not competitive in any way with the Chinese market. It’s a Farce.

Elon Schmusk

Fundamentally tesla is being pumped up by idiots and the profits are going to be reaped by people waiting to cut and run. Tesla is a bubble, eventually it will burst

This is probably what will happen. A sensible person would long ago just said enough is enough and would enjoy time with family and friends rather than trying to run numbers up for their own sake.

So basically he has what he had before PayPal, and the rest is a house of cards awaiting imminent collapse.

He can and will. There are still fanboys and whatever cronies he knows in the governmafia to feed him contracts for his dog & pony show.

It's also down over 21% YTD. Toyota doesn't just make safe reliable cars, they produce a lot more actual units than Testicle does. It's an old established brand with a well earned reputation.

The only thing pepetuating the scam is it's now embedded itself. TSLA is on the S&P which means index funds are forced to hold a stake. I also suspect a lot of other powerful people as well as the finance industry are going along for the ride too as long as they get a piece of the action.

I'm sure his "donations" to Gump's campaign were expected to get him a pardon.

There's also Theranos, but it's small in scale compared with TSLA. The amazing part is Enron and Theranos were covering up their fraud, while Felon's fraud are right out in the open. He has such a long history of making public statements that can easily be shown to be deceptive and not just the usual "corporate puffery."

A decade? If you look back it's going back to the early days of Tesla. Even then he was pulling the "next year" bullshit. Yes, it's one thing to be overly enthusiastic and miss a promised deadline by a little bit, but quite another to put on a big spectacle showing off new products that are allegedly "autonomous" when there are really people in the background remotely controlling them. He does appear to be more careful as with his statement that Robotaxis were operating without a monitor "in the car", even though they had people in a chase car.

The price is that high with the assumtion that someone will be stupid enough to pay more for it: The Greater Fool Theory.

Index funds have to buy in. The others don't, yet they do anyway. Maybe I'll start my own fund: The Hype and Fraud fund.

It's good to see a business that values a sustainable business model over making a quick buck which is why they make quality cars.

Big if true (meant in seriousness despite the Elonism)

When 1% of the population has 99% of the wealth, and they come together, they can prop up anything they want. For how long? Only time will tell, but the wealth gap is accelerating.

What do you think “market makers” are? I guarantee that you are confused about what this term means. The truth is much more straightforward: there is a class of investors who buy into Elon’s ever-changing rhetorical hype. Of course there’s little to no reason to believe him, but do not underestimate the irrationality of the market.

Wimpy said, “I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.” Elon said I will gladly give you robotaxi and Optimus tomorrow if you buy my stock today.

He fixed it in 2024 and he's going to keep fixing it.

The connection he failed to make is Musk is the master of pump & Dump / stock hype. He owns Twitter because he screwed up and his Pump offer to buy was deemed legit. He constantly pivots to push his companies as whatever tech trend rather than what they are. Tesla is a car maker, the AI self driving shit nobody else is interested in because other makers can do it in house as well or better because they can use Lidar and Musk is facing a LOT of old promises to upgrade cara to support it. Whats shocking is either people believe it or they see it as a pyramid scheme tha they think they can get off of when it stops rising

BUY BUY BUY! TO THE MOON!

It's a meme stock. It's like saying something is propping up Bitcon. Yeah it's the new investor class that invests on feels and FOMO.

The related party things interesting because I think they’re probably going to do a reverse roll up with SpaceX at some point. Just like they already did with solar city, Twitter just like they already did with xAI. If regulators will allow, he would probably prefer it becoming unified everything company. and frankly, that will justify a pretty stupid evaluation, even with the normal conglomerate tax. The energy storage business is significantly helping protect the bottom line and keep them profitable right now, which previously I would’ve assumed that would be a low margin business used to throw off surplus lithium commit commitments. The robot thing is weird because that’s really not as much of a hardware problem (you can source most of the components from supply chain today) as it is a AI world model problem. I’m not terribly concerned about their ability to build or buy one of those. He’s got enough hardware in Tennessee right now to build an 8 trillion perimeter model this year. I know conglomerate went out of fashion because it’s hard to assign a unified value to multiple lines of business, given he’s already blowing his engineering across companies, they can pool their spend on AI, he can create unified subscription packages for stickiness (FSD + twitter blue + starlink cell service) I think that’s what some people are looking at when they look at the evaluation in the future. Does it sound crazy and unhinged? Sure, absolutely. Do I hold individual shares in Tesla? No. Am I going to make broad prognosis disease that the entire company is a Chelle game and going to collapse eminently? Lol no. I’ve had some friends who worked for them, and there were some of the smartest hardest working people I know, and they all got paid incredibly well compared to the rest of the industry..

That is my understanding. He’s not hurting but is in quite a pickle and unless the current admin becomes a permanent dictatorship his endgame is either fleeing the country or adx florence.

Something like half their revenue came from selling carbon credits at one point (I’m not sure what the economics of that are like now that limiting emissions seems to be going away).

Dream on

I agree, there's something else propping up Tesla stock price. If it was just meme stock it would have failed by now

One would wonder why Tesla's stock price is much higher than Ford, Stellantis, GM, etc. Companies that have been in business for decades longer 🤔. Yes, Tesla does have SpaceX and Starlink but its stock price seems to be based on feelings or fan-based people who are in love with him.

Keep hoping and coping.

Tesla seems to be a prime example of fake it until you can make it. Promising cars to self-deliver themselves - one car does it - publish info on this. Robotaxi's in x cities. Have a few robotaxis with fanboys in them to make it feel like they're eveywhere. There's a good video about the tunnels that Elon was once touting - that there's only one running in the Vegas tunnel! So a 15minute wait!

This was closer to my take on why it's similar to Enron in a vauge opaque way. Once everything is rolled into one giant entity, the non GAAP hijinks can begin. We no long have any clue what kind of business Solar City is doing now that it's just Tesla. We have no idea how much xAI is costs now that it's SpaceX. I understood that Tesla and Enron were in different businesses with different regs, but what I'm saying is that something is being hidden from our eyes right now. All of the things you mentioned about Enron was HIDDEN before their fall. You're looking in hindsight to those. But during their scam everyone was amazing and called them "The Smartest Guys In The Room" because nobody could figure out what they were doing. I get strong feelings from Elon. This sub can sniff something not being right. The valuations based on vapor is the smoke. But we are all looking for the fire still.

The greater fool theory. Much like the tech crash of early 2000's. History tends to repeat itself. It could again with AI.

Not just to cut, but to scrape data and install backdoors

That fascist!

Awww cute an elonian hit me. Musk does not have a happy ending if we manage to keep a republic. This isn’t rocket science.

Well, fElon is a sociopath, not a sensible person, so it tracks.

You are aware of his namesake, right?

One word: Robots. and when the carpet is pulled for that…oh well.

What was the reason?

YouTube videos are famously trustworthy.

You mean the scientist and inventor who was shamelessly ripped off by a self-promoting scam artists, leaving him penniless and destitute? I also know the history of Topsy the elephant.

No, no, I mean [HIS namesake](https://www.mind-war.com/p/the-elon-how-a-nazi-rocket-scientist).

https://marketchameleon.com/articles/b/2025/11/20/tsla-surges-3-71-nov-21-25-420-calls-19313-contracts-retail-upside fuck if I know ??

All the troubles are Elon induced in my opinion. These companies have so much going for them. They are the right companies at the right time for America and for the world when they started. But their CEO/ owner has the worst case of ego and narcissism and ADHD. It’s like every move he has made since launching the model Y has been detrimental to Tesla. He can’t stop speaking BS at every meeting. He has no understanding of effort and timelines it takes to do things. At one point he did say the truth, prototypes are easy, production is hard, but he seems to still screw up launch timeline announcements. Same for SpaceX. Anyway that’s my opinion.

🤦‍♂️

I don't think you can attribute historical movement within specific ranges as resistance at that price. The fundamentals change, and the outlook changes. The valuation is derived from those things. Tesla's insane evaluation is not built on the fundamentals, but on the outlook. Many of us think the outlook is bullshit.

Musk is a one man nation state. He’s not going down that easy He did hitch his wagon to the Hindenburg though so going to be a rough ride for him

Except its not

It's a cult.

Investors are not evaluating Tesla as a car company. To them, it's a robotics and AI company. The basic premise is that you take the world model from FSD, the reasoning model from Grok, and all the parts (actuators, cameras, etc) from Tesla vehicles to create a cost effective robot (Optimus). This robot will supposedly generate the entire value of the company many times over, because it will automate much of human labor.

Any day now!

I think it's related to his, "I need to own 25% of the shares" requirement. My theories on this stem from the fact that even on a no news, nothing day (like today) for Tesla (actually Waymo is now in 10 cities not 6...), they popped 2% on about 55 M in volume. That is roughly $22 billion dollars changing hands. Elon realizes that the larger the valuation becomes, the more ownership he needs in order to prevent selling volumes that are self perpetuating and cause massive valuation loss. Let's say that on a really bad earnings report, or news that Waymo is operating in 20 cities, when he owns 25% of the shares, then 1/4 owners will not be selling. That's a big deal because it limits the movement on such a speculative stock. If there is a 3% decline on a 1.5 trillion market cap (45 billion), that's double the 3% decline on a 750 billion in market cap (22.5 billion). I'd naively argue that the market sentiment on these two situations is the same, but the consequences of the higher validation are far more risky for maintaining this valuation. Now if you'll don your aluminum hats with me, and this is really just a far fetched hypothesis, but his shares allow him to take out loans. His leverage is capped at some dollar amount, pegged to a threshold of TSLA market capitalization. So in order to keep good on those loans he can manipulate the stock price under the table. Those loans finance coordinated/autonomous buying and selling of the asset through offshore accounts. They keep the volume on the stock moving in certain directions and make money on both the upwards and downwards momentum by knowing the direction which the underlying majority of the price action moves. They soak up retail investor sentiment in both directions and keep the stock trading in a range that makes him liquid long enough for the promises to become earnings.

Religious faith in the coming techpocalypse.

Institutional holdings are about 47%.

Thanks.

Thank you. Seems like WAY too much exposure to a company sitting atop a cotton candy castle.

don't look up!

America worships money. As long as Musk is the richest man on Earth, there will always be a halo 'he's so rich he must know something we don't' as far as the investors are concerned. It's the same back when SBF had an interview with institutional investors while playing video game and the latter actually said they were impressed with SBF's ability to multi-task. Imagine the response if SBF wasn't worth billions at the time. When Musk's day of reckoning comes, it will be brutal and it will be sudden.

So stfu and don’t buy the stock. Damn.

>There is something we don't know that is propping up that stock price because the financials certainly don't. Oh, we know what it is. Sheer stupidity.

Falling apart for who? Sorry I don't follow irrelevant things

*Falling apart for* *Who? Sorry I don't follow* *Irrelevant things* \- coffeetacocat --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn&#32;more&#32;about&#32;me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")

This is the best explanation that I've hard so far. When Elon was pledging Tesla shares to raise funds to buy Twitter I noticed how much of his net worth was tied to the share price of Tesla. And how much he had pledged and leveraged his shares of Tesla. If volatility was allowed to float naturally, it could not only trigger repayment clauses in those loans, but also wipe him out almost completely.

institutional investors do see it and have been selling. It is the retail investors that keep buying into it and keep the price up

***"Elon’s constant promises are fraud. It’s okay to be wrong or overpromise occasionally but his history is of predictions can only be interpreted as intentional."*** I'm no Musk fan, and I'm certainly not a lawyer, but explain to me how bluster and broken promises equal fraud. When you find PROOF that Elon ***intentionally*** misled customers and investors, and made promises he KNEW he couldn't keep, please post them here. TIA

There is a consistent and constant pattern of over promising and under or no delivery on those promises. Level 5 autonomy has been promised to be "next year" for over a decade, the cybertruck having a $40,000 price tag, the model 2 that was supposed to be $25,000, the new roadster they took deposits for that they still haven't made. Either Elon is lying or is wildly incompetent. His lies have been a boon for the stock price, but as of right now, everything Elon has done outside of the original business plan that he wasn't a part of, has floundered.

Incompetence is not against the law. Lying would make it fraud, but you still need proof.

Damn, this is it right here.

Sales have plummeted? Model y is the best selling vehicle in the world. Don’t believe the hype

who's making factories like tesla in the usa?

Musk was saying, before the 2024 election, that if Harris won, he'd be going to prison. I'm with you in thinking that there's some big time fraud going on with his companies.

I’d love to see any numbers that back this up.

Having seen the stats on on-site accidents, I hope no one.

Is just retail speculation, driven by wackos like James Mullarney ‘investanswers’ who brainwashed his followers that telsa and musk are the saviour of the world… very out of touch with reality.

It's a bunch of memestock, no one cares until the real great depression.

Tesla market cap c 20x that of peak Enron!

Elon is the human embodiment of the Gartner Hype Cycle. After the *Peak of Inflated Expectations* is the **Trough of Disillusionment** it's coming.

The vibe economy. Market moves on proclamations, results are bourgeois.

Podcaster talking about another podcaster's podcast talking about Musk? What is this crap?

I think all EV’s are fucked no matter what. But I don’t see SpaceX having much trouble in the future. Considering Boeing seems to have added, shitting the bad to their core competencies.

“Its not even made it into orbit yet” while factually true is intellectually dishonest. It has now multiple times achieved ~95+% orbital velocity, but space X chose to have a suborbital flight path as the primary test was the heatshielding, which didn’t require actually entering orbit to test. Had Space X decided to make one of the launches an orbital flight and not suborbital, it would have been trivial to accomplish. (There would have been many regulatory hurdles that would have been needed to clear, but the technical aspect would have been trivial. “Its largest payload to date was a banana” this is just a flat out lie. Flight 10 carried and successfully deployed 8 dummy starlink satellites as a test of the deployment mechanism. I dont know if starship will ever be successful, it still has a ton of challenges in front of it before it could even be considered useful for satellite deployments much less transporting humans, but lets avoid blatantly lying and trying to misrepresent it as worse than it is.

I hate musk. But Tesla cars are great.

He'll be fine. Unfortunately the democrats have shown zero interest in going after Musk or any other Nazi billionairs complicit in the dismantling of the government; or even doing anything different at all for that matter, other than toning ICE down a bit. The Harris comment was just his usual drug fueled paranoia shit posting.

Uh, yup. lol. Also, some taxi services have just as good of apps so Uber doesn’t have much of an actual tech edge anymore.

jesus.

The most irrational valuation of the stock market. The worst their results are the best the stock price is…

Nationalize that shit

Then every AI company is fraud too. However that can be articulated in an intelligent way.  These Silicon Valley companies are all about hype and getting rich on some 100x play.

Space x is, like it or not, making good money. Tesla is a meme stock propped up by people that just believe somehow Elon will make it work.

Remember this? **Elon Musk Settles SEC Fraud Charges; Tesla Charged With and Resolves Securities Law Charge** *Settlement Requires Musk to Step Down as Tesla’s Chairman; Tesla to Appoint Additional Independent Directors; Tesla and Musk Agree to Pay $40 Million in Penalties*. Ironically, at this point the fact that Elon lies and exaggerates so often, works in his favor. Just like Trump, most sensible people know to ignore him by now. Unfortunately, there are millions of nonsensical people out there that still fall for his bs. Add to that, an actual conviction* would cost hundreds of billions or more in lost market capitalization. *This DOJ would never go after him anyway.

He huffs And he puffs And he blows the stock price up

You guys don’t understand that Tesla provides employees with ESPP up to 15% of their pay. ESPP participants (employee holders) are the reason the stock is propped up heavily.

Starlink is turning 14B revenue in 2025, from 8B in 2024. It actually dwarfs the launch revenue at this point. Market inclues all ships, airlines and worldwide remote locations.

> he’s here to stay sadly Even if he lost everything and was publicly shamed. The alt right would welcome him with open arms and give him a new platform where he'd make at least decent money like a pumped up Kyle Rittenhouse or Russel Brand. He's already started the christian grift.

Unfortunately, it turned out, solving fsd was a lot harder than creating reusable rocket

"Barely" a profit... 4 billion dollars last year...

Go start a “my pillow” business in a liberal state and see what happens. Only those who run a business with full-time employees will understand the unfair tricks, blocks, licensing, inspections,and taxes imposed when politicians hate you.

This video is so clickbaity I don’t know what to say. Filled to brim with inaccuracy and delusions. SpaceX and Tesla are going to be fine

Clearly I am going to disagree because, having watched the video, I thought it was worth posting here. However, if you honestly feel "it is filled to the brim with inaccuracy and delusions" then it will be a simple excercise for you to list some here. What, specifically, from the video, is inaccurate, delusional, or both?

The market is telling you that Tesla is not an auto company. So stop valuing as an auto company.

Agree, call buying - always happens and is orchestrated. We all know what SEC is doing, so...

Could you elaborate?

just ask gemini (not grok) about it - In the world of finance, the **"Tesla Call Buying Program"** is not a formal initiative by Elon Musk or Tesla, Inc. Instead, it is a colloquial (and often cynical) term used by traders and analysts to describe the **aggressive, coordinated buying of out-of-the-money (OTM) call options** that frequently triggers "gamma squeezes" on Tesla's stock ($TSLA$). While not an official program, this phenomenon acts like a self-fulfilling prophecy that has historically caused Tesla to decouple from its financial fundamentals. # How the "Program" Creates a Squeeze The "program" is essentially a market mechanic known as a **Gamma Squeeze**. Here is the step-by-step cycle:

The secret ingredient is crime

Till the day (soon) when everyone realizes there’s no big thing coming, and everything crashes with a big boom.

For how long though? If Trump decides he’s a liability, he’ll get him off the cards.

And this will lose him sooner than we think. All the rats quit the sinking ship, and he’s clearly sinking. The abhorrent promises are a clear symptom of his falling, and his allies won’t let themselves dragged in the mud.

Tesla has been a scam stock for years. Massively overvalued because in some future where unicorn farts power the Earth they will develop some life altering product. Makes no difference how they do short term as long as Elon sprinkles a few crumbs around a few times a year to keep the scam going.

Tesla is still watching sales decline and they have watched profitability slide. They are very likely a few quarters at most away from losing money again. Their core business has been eroded so much that the company is in an extremely precarious position. Outside of self-dealing, there isn't much Tesla can do short-term to shore up the auto business. They have nothing new in the pipeline, a 2 year old refresh on its best-selling model, and a car that's ancient. You touched on the worst part, once the illusion is broken, there's no coming back from that.

Good.

[Artemis has entered the chat]

what helped you?

It was a gradual process. Between Covid and his pedo comment about the diver saving the kids I started having reservations. Stuff started not adding up way too fast once the blinders were off.

Well….musk purchasing $1Billion worth of shares and analysts being in bed with Tesla is a start

Their P/E ratio is hilarious

Both Musk and his brother are artificially inflating the stock.

Tesla is a Ponzi scheme.

Did you mean bitcoin toss?

The problem is… each new big idea is less good than the previous. His best ideas were Tesla and space x. Government supported, politically motivated and *relatively* well thought through, with first mover advantages all around. But then you get new models like the semi, cyber truck, and roadster all of which spell economic doom, solar roofs, followed by the boring company, monkey electrode company, xai, humanoid robots, and not-self driving. All of which range from purely stupid to so helplessly far behind and massively capital intensive that an investor giving even a bit of value to them is literally irresponsible. It should be the exact opposite…ie the distraction and complexity penalty.

Tesla was not his idea, he was an early investor who managed to push the founders out. When Elon took over Tesla, there was already a business plan in place up to the model y, which he followed, and the y is what is carrying the company. All the other Tesla products you mentioned are his god awful ideas.

Its a sect. No normality exists there at all. The brutal downfall will come..

I made a roast song for Musk, hope he likes it :-) [https://www.roastblast.com/gift/v0cTxFjHi2aOPnkX](https://www.roastblast.com/gift/v0cTxFjHi2aOPnkX)

Good.

Actually, as of today, it's 42.6% institutional ownership which is a pretty steep decline from trends over the past year/year and a half.