It's just so obviously a scam at this point. Investors deserve what is coming to them.
\> Tesla VP of Software Ashok Elluswamy did acknowledge on January 22 that the company was “starting with a few unsupervised vehicles mixed in with the broader Robotaxi fleet with Safety Monitors” and that “the ratio will increase over time.” What kind of corporate doublespeak is this? If they have safety monitors, then they are not "unsupervised". They are liars. Ratio? Last I heard they only had 20 cars and 8 of them crashed within 6 months. How many are deployed now at any given time? Every executive in this company should be doing time in Club Fed.
People holding the S&P500 don’t tho. The committee keeping them in the index should be prosecuted.
• Q2 2013: Unveiled a 90-second battery swap demo to bag ZEV credits; the program was quietly killed after one station. • Q3 2016: Showcased "Solar Roof" tiles on a movie set to save SolarCity; the tiles were later revealed to be non-functional props. • Q4 2017: Pumped the Semi and Roadster to distract from "Model 3 Hell"; took $250k deposits for cars that still haven't arrived. • Q3 2018: Tweeted "Funding Secured" for a $420 buyout to squeeze shorts; funding was not secured and cost Musk a $20M SEC fine. • Q1 2019: Promised "1 million robotaxis" by 2020 during Autonomy Day to pivot the narrative from a massive quarterly loss. • Q4 2020: Declared FSD "feature complete" to move deferred revenue to profits and force Tesla's inclusion into the S&P 500. • Q3 2021: Introduced the "Tesla Bot" to distract from FSD stagnation; the "prototype" was a human dancer in a spandex suit. • Q3 2024: Hosted the "We, Robot" movie set event to mask falling sales; cars drove on pre-mapped roads with no technical specs. • Q4 2024: Showed Optimus serving drinks to guests; it was later confirmed the robots were being remote-controlled by humans. • Q4 2025: Launched "unsupervised" Austin robotaxis days before earnings; public users found safety monitors in every "driverless" car. 👈👈 YOU ARE HERE
Yes, everyone knows it's a scam but it makes money so everyone is happy to go along with the scam.
Only in the USA a dude like Elon won’t go to jail, because he does not lose the money of rich people. He mastered the cheat code of getting rich, while delivering nothing that matches the investment. Even companies like SpaceX would now bleed billions a year, when he had failed to get Trump elected.
Its like 2% DISCLAIMER: I agree with you.
Socialize the losses. Privatize the scam.
What Elon appears to have figured out is that the stock jumps more with the lie than it drops when the truth is revealed. And now here we are, a $1.4 trillion company, propped up by hundreds of lies, and hardly anyone asking how in the world we got here.
Grifters gonna grift.
Sp500 buys high sells low
Lovers gonna love
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled." - Mark Twain I am not sure the stock will crash at this point. The people who fell for it will keep holding, or even double down on the next scam. There are several brewing: Optimus, Tesla cars as a distributed computing network, Dojo revival to both eat into Nvidia's market share as well as do datacenters in space, Grok integration, and so on and so forth.
Well if they reduce the fleet from 20 vehicles to 10, then the unsupervised ratio will indeed have increased.
its a scam but to investors they don’t seem to care
It’s not like the company isn’t valuable. All the delayed promises and false bravado and misleading statements don’t really mean much. FSD is a unique and incredibly valuable tool even in its current state and they do sell a ton of cars…
Colony on Mars by next year.
Except that some of those "investors" are hedge funds holding people's pension money.
Anyone else remember pyramid parties back in the 1970s? A lot of people made a lot of money, until they didn't.
They only care that the line keeps moving upward, but some day, probably very soon, it won't.
True - enough to put them at a reasonable market value of ~10% of their current valuation, iirc
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There are definitely lots of people who don’t think it’s a scam. I meet them all the time
Bro have you ever been to other countries lol
But it's valued at over 5x Toyota and sell 90% less cars.
Using the touch screen to open the glove box. The first time I saw that, I was like WTAF! They “solved” a problem that didn’t even exist. LOL.
Enron, Theranos, Wirecard, and now Tesla. Not a matter of if, just a matter of when.
This isn't "corporate puffery", it's deliberate fraud meant to deceive investors. It doesn't matter that Elon is technically not lying when he said there were rides without a supervisor in the car. The intent was clearly to make investors believe they were ready to switch to unsupervised robotaxis. There's no other way to explain it. It's really no different from what Trevor Milton was convicted of doing at Nikola Motors, for which he got a four year prison sentence that he never had to serve any of because Trump immediately pardoned him. I imagine this was the kind of thing Elon had in mind when he said he'd be in jail if Trump didn't win in 2024. It probably wasn't much coincidence Elon explicitly became a super hardcore Republican and purchased Twitter around the same time Milton was convicted.
Thank you, it's always helpful to see this sort of information laid out in a way that provides context simply from the formatting. ...So why would you just sprinkle bullet points all through the middle of a paragraph?! Behold! • Q2 2013: Unveiled a 90-second battery swap demo to bag ZEV credits; the program was quietly killed after one station. • Q3 2016: Showcased "Solar Roof" tiles on a movie set to save SolarCity; the tiles were later revealed to be non-functional props. • Q4 2017: Pumped the Semi and Roadster to distract from "Model 3 Hell"; took $250k deposits for cars that still haven't arrived. • Q3 2018: Tweeted "Funding Secured" for a $420 buyout to squeeze shorts; funding was not secured and cost Musk a $20M SEC fine. • Q1 2019: Promised "1 million robotaxis" by 2020 during Autonomy Day to pivot the narrative from a massive quarterly loss. • Q4 2020: Declared FSD "feature complete" to move deferred revenue to profits and force Tesla's inclusion into the S&P 500. • Q3 2021: Introduced the "Tesla Bot" to distract from FSD stagnation; the "prototype" was a human dancer in a spandex suit. • Q3 2024: Hosted the "We, Robot" movie set event to mask falling sales; cars drove on pre-mapped roads with no technical specs. • Q4 2024: Showed Optimus serving drinks to guests; it was later confirmed the robots were being remote-controlled by humans. • Q4 2025: Launched "unsupervised" Austin robotaxis days before earnings; public users found safety monitors in every "driverless" car. 👈👈 YOU ARE HERE
What the actual fuck is propping up the stock price?
Does it strike anyone else as...uh, bad...that this is what Capitalism optimizes for? 'Cause that seems bad, to me.
a) where's the moat? b) how wide is it?
Usually when the stock goes it goes right back up after a day or two when all the "dip buying" kicks in.
So…Steve Jobs without the talent or charisma?
They likely didnt. They likely didnt double space it and it collapsed into a single para. I've had that happen many times to me and I was too lazy to fix it lol.
I actually say "open glove box" and it works LOL
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Ask anyone that put a deposit down for the roadster.
yup, his "we will address half the population by the end of the year" on the July EC was scam land. I took the under on that but still got my head handed to me Q4
If it's so incredibly valuable in its current state it'd be bringing in a lot more money than it currently is.
Are we just waiting for October 24th 2029?
Too Big To Flail
chartology, index fund flows. retail call buyers pushing the market makers around. nobody with any sense would short this thing, or hold if it goes the wrong way on them
Private investors LEAVE NOW. When this crashes, it will be all over before you even know about it.
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<sigh> Yes, I was looking at Index Funds a few weeks ago…I didn’t see any that didn’t have between 1 and 4% Tesla holdings…
So many people are all-in Tesla, they will get absolutely rekt
With all those promises Elon just says well gee whiz he was just too enthusiastic and got it wrong but pinky swear really believed it. Of course it's bullshit but hard to prove in court. And at this point I 100% expect his legal team would say that no reasonable person would believe his promises to be reliable (and they wouldn't exactly be wrong) But this robotaxi magic trick shit is 100% dead to rights provable securities fraud. Probably "Paint it Black" and "We, Robot" too but this even more so.
What's funny is that all those things exist, just that China made all of them.
How dare you compare Tesla to a Pyramid Scheme! It is more of a trapezoid...
We all need to be super clear here, even if the robotaxis(I fucking hate that name) were a 100% success and were delivering on every performance metric, Tesla would still just be operating a fucking taxi company. Tesla keeps aiming for the lowest-margin businesses he can find.
A New Feces!
SEC too busy letting congress members doing insider trading
You left out the thread of all the unfulfilled promises & scheduled events for Autopilot/FSD hardware and software. The Tesla investor cult is truly delusional.
He may attract talent, but they leave relatively quickly.
I've done the same.
The haphazard layout of the original fits much better when describing Tesla though
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> 3 2018: Tweeted "Funding Secured" for a $420 buyout to squeeze shorts; funding was not secured and cost Musk a $20M SEC fine. This is still the most INSANE thing that ever happened with Tesla and Musk. 98 out of 100 CEO would have gone to jail for this. If this isn't stock price manipulation, what else?
> Ratio? Last I heard they only had 20 cars and 8 of them crashed within 6 months. How many are deployed now at any given time? I thought it was only 5 or 6, there are only one or two "unsupervised with trailing car" models out there
> they do sell a ton of cars They sell as many cars as Renault - a company with a market cap less than 1% of Tesla's.
Is the bubble ever going to pop? The more absurd Elon lies the more the stock goes up
Pension funds invested in Enron as well. Not every investment pays off.
The point of that paragraph is to use a timeline to illustrate Musk's pattern of making buffoonish, unreasonable promises, I assume? If so, then you get the most bang for your buck if the timeline is easy for your reader to parse at a glance. If the information is worth writing, then it's worth having the reader get it. Anything you can do to grease those skids is to your benefit, from a communications-effectiveness standpoint. And besides, you STILL get a psychological impact from a list vs. a cloud: even before you read the list, you can tell by looking that there's a LOT of meat on that particular bone - it's an obviously very long list. That only helps your case, at least as well as a "look at how messy this is" word-cloud would. The point you make is self-illustrative. By the time I get to the end of that list, I have a very good understanding of your point, that "Elon Musk Says a Lot of Shit" - and you didn't have to say a thing to convince me. It's a very persuasive way to make that claim, because it condemns Musk with his own words. Fuckin' gottem! ...But! I have to actually READ the list to get to the end of it, and that means that it's the *information* in your post that's doing the heavy lifting. So you want to optimize your writing for delivering *that information* to your audience, then - which happens with a bulleted list, not a word-cloud. If you present your conclusion artfully, you can trust your audience to get it without needing to resort to formatting games, and indeed, *without even needing to say a thing!* Finally, readers already expect for bullets to be in a list. There's no such thing as a bulleted paragraph, but bullet lists are common. Not stacking the bullets strikes me as a curveball that doesn't need throwing. Making your reader parse out why your list is not a list only distracts them from absorbing the information you're presenting in that list. The list is good! It's the best kind of persuasion, because it's not a 3rd party commentary from anybody; it's just a self-evident demonstration of what Elon Musk does consistently. That's why I think letting the list do its job in the most straightforward way possible is the most persuasive approach.
“starting with a few unsupervised vehicles mixed in with the broader Robotaxi fleet with Safety Monitors” Except that the “broader” fleet is still less than 100 vehicles, right? What a BS answer.
Unfortunately common nowadays aka #latestagecapitalism or #amazon
Though he clearly helps organize a lot of this shenanigans behind the scenes Ashok historically hasn't really said that much out loud. I think that's starting to change as Elon's putting the screws on him as people would be more likely to believe the lies coming from him.
With their stock performance as one of the “magnificent 7” delisting them would ensure a law suit.
Oh Christ, I've forgotten how...delightful...editing comments here can be, lol
So much fraud...my god hahahah
The majority are in California and have drivers
Enron's fraud wasn't quite as obvious. Putting money into a company with a P/E of 300:1 is downright reckless.
They all drove themselves off a cliff.
…a throne of lies…
It doesn't really matter now. These people know they are putting on a song and dance to mislead the public. There are fully complicit in Felon Musk's crimes.
But it’s a (checks today’s notes…) robotaxi, robot, and AI company.
Yep its beyond infuriating... especially on mobile.
Discontinuing the Model S and X. Tesla is no longer SEXY! …..YE
Fell for it again award to all TSLA holders
This is especially creepy given Elon's campaign to impregnate women. "Creepy rich lovers gonna use their money to love" feels more on point given the context.
Is that why everyone says it’s more than a car company. It also sells BS to dumb people. It’s a perfect business model.
It was just a stock pump event to provide cushion for earnings volatility
If the market gets ugly people are going to have to sell something and Tesla being 98% hype is going to hurt then. In order to justify the current price, Robotaxis have to be free to Tesla, bring in as much money per ride as Uber and capture 100% of the market. Then, the robot business has to be bigger than that. I wouldn't be too surprised if the stock goes higher in the near to medium term but I have 0 doubts Tesla will be 20% of it's current value at some point in the future barring some kind of AOL/Time Warner type deal where the shareholders of some other entity take the hit.
Enron and Theranos were way more insidious because they were scheming to hide the truth from investors. With Tesla it's all out in the open - every shareholders knows that Musk is a liar and after Cybertruck everyone knows he has completely lost the plot. He was good at guiding product design back in the day - launching Model S was a genius decision, Model 3 and Y were good
He doesn’t have a strategy.
Bag holders. Investors realize gains, asses risk, rebalance.
It’s stuffed into a lot of 401k funds and way more than 2% in some. Had to do a lot of work to distance myself from it. Vast majority of people do not do this. Yes i know in theory some folks have 600% gains in whatever tech bullshit because markets never go down now.
Musk commits securities fraud every time he opens his mouth. We just lack a functioning sec and doj at the moment.
And it’s gone. It will be tragic when it happens. I remember the enron fallout well.
Everyone is fine with it though, it's not like Tesla shareholders are only orphans and widows
His time has run out.
Right I put money into XMAG now just to have an etf sp500 without tesler
Yeah I bought a robot just the other day! Er
Illegal is legal now
Well the US is more busy taking care of the billionaires then the people so it’s not that surprising. It’s what you vote for after all
Tesla is without a doubt a borderline theranos level scam. Elon should've just promised it being a car brand only. He's tried to pivot it to a AI and robotics brand and they simply do not have the technology to accomplish that shit. Even if they had self driving cars which could drive all around the country by themselves unsupervised the fucking logistics to get that running in America, let alone Canada, UK, etc fucking forget about it. Would take potentially decades to regulate that. The second those things crash and kill someone he'd be fucked.
I mean with Theranos it's very similar to Tesla's robotics and Automation claims. No one in the industry believes Tesla is going to have unsupervised autonomous driving anytime this decade or fucking autonomous robots. But he's pumped the stock off of these tech promises. Likewise anyone with any fucking clue about science or medicine anyway should've known you cannot run blood panels with the amount of blood Holmes was stating you needed. Theranos AND Tesla are very similar with the exception being that Tesla technically as a car company has delivered tangible products, but they're not marketing their stock or company as a car company. They're outright labeling it a robotics and autonomous company.
It's probably why he poured hundreds of millions into the election.
Damn I forgot how far back this robotaxi and robot shit goes back. We're basically 6+ years in and none of that shit is close to market lol.He did outright say that FSD was feature complete then fucking said a few years later only certain Teslas after a certain year will be able to do true FSD. How this is allowed and not considered fraud is beyond me. Legitimately this is not a company that should be trading on the S&P 500.
It's 110 percent stock manipulation. He's pumped the stock the entire existence of the company. When Space X becomes public that shits gonna be 20 TIMES worse.
At what point does it crumble? At what point do investors say ok show us the FSD robot taxis that can drive a full day unassisted and then show us a pathway where this becomes regulated and actually becomes a business?
SpaceX will not go public. Going public means revealing that having 2/3rds of your launches be for launching your own satellites means your are losing billions of dollars a year.
Musk has been doing blatant fraud the whole time. Why would he stop now
Praise the pyramid [scheme]?
So everything's Computer?
Is it? I think the most insane drug fueld thing that happened was the Trump promo stunt on the WH lawn.
None of the mag 7
I was referencing the Trump meme.
We love tesler!
Don't forget he played the "next year" game from the outset when people were waiting for the original S. His con has been going on from the very beginning.
I think that’s what my 401k did, they bought the highs and sold the dips. My index fund was up 3% last year, like who the hell is managing that find and why do they have a job.
That’s today, you’re not thinking like Elon lovers, it’s really a brain chip on Mars company 75 years out!
The moat is full of Tesla owners unable to get out of their vehicles.
Tell that to Wall st analyst just lapping up every word coming out of his mouth and amplifying it to his followers.
The Tesla cars as a distributed network idea is hilarious. Basically a tacit admission that most (or probably all) of them will never actually self drive. Hilarious. Stock goes to moon. Honestly at this point I feel like shareholders have become hostages.
Uh oh. The safety monitors must have joined the union, now Tesla has to keep their jobs. What else could it be? Even Tesla insists they’re not needed. It’s not regulations, they’ve gone without the safety monitors before. It’s the union jobs. /s
Worldcom, Bre-X....
"At the moment?" He's been at it for over a couple decades now.
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