Elon Musk said automakers don't want to license Tesla FSD.

Why would anyone want to do business with a lying fascist?

No shit

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Users don’t want to license it either

Because businesses generally don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect their business negatively and benefits them $$$. Elon might be an edge case, but look at Trump, soon as he becomes president, you got all the tech leaders on all 4s.

Nobody wants to buy something that doesn't work. Shocking.

Same guy who said they were in talk to do so back when that was the story they wanted to portray?

Because it‘s dysfunctional shit that only works in the most basic conditions. It needs constant monitoring by the driver and you never feel safe using it.

Wouldn't it be useless unless they also implemented the same camera array as Tesla?

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We like the tech, but here in Europe we have some history with nazis. For us when we see a nazi, the only solution is kill it with fire at the spot. It is not guarantee even then that we will get rid of the nazi shit.

Proof that business and STEM majors need a robust humanities education.  Capitalists who collaborate with authoritarian takeovers always wind up getting their shit stolen and then long knifed in the back.

Hmm I wonder WHY????

\- America's former trading partners.

For the life of me I will never understand why anybody wants their car to drive itself. 🤷‍♀️ I love driving my truck!

You mean like Henry Ford? Ford is still run by his descendants.

He literally chose not to use the sensor technology that everyone else did and instead chose a cheaper, less effective technology and then wonders why nobody wants to license the software that is optimized around the sensors that only he is using. If this is somehow a mystery to him, I think that he has deeper issues than we all can see.

I hate this narrative. It makes it seems like he's a great businessman that's somewhat being cancelled. No one wants to do business because there's no business to be done. FSD is 10 years late and still non existent (it's still not Full Self Driving, no matter what anyone thinks). It's same as with sales slump. It's not because of Leon being a nazi. It's because it's aging design that they didn't invest into and it's facing very strong competition. Sure, being nazi adds to both, but it's just a cherry on the top. The cake is that products suck.

Well yea, it's too low quality.

Remember when he said they were already in discussions for licensing YEARS ago. Pepperidge Farm remembers.

This whole nice guy act is the BIGGEST BS in history from musk This has been outlined by numerous automaker CEO’s He did the same thing with Teslas’s battery tech essentially saying use our battery tech for free. What he doesn’t tell you is if you use his his battery tech or or FSD then he gets access to all your trademarks and in house processes

The Business Plot didn’t succeed.

Maybe he had a chance a decade ago when he first promised it lol…

That's why it's staying camera only. It's proprietary (and no one is going backward to try and do it better). He thought he had enough first mover advantage to get the tech homogenized in the US, so that would be default licensee of approved FSD tech. The tech will come out of the EU just because they're gonna accept what Texas is rubber stamping and their market is large enough and well regulated. Also they don't own any of the hardware stack, making their entire thing built on a bit of a house of cards.

And? It's not like they stopped being fascist because their plot failed. Just saying that Tesla is not the only organization in the US that has or would bend over for this admin.

I did say “lying fascist”. You can’t make partnerships or long term relationships with someone who will lie at every opportunity. FSD is now a decade of lies piled higher than a triceratops’s dung mound

I would love to have something functional for the long roadtrips I do to see family across the country. I can also see the use for people who drive 40-50 minutes to work every day. But other than that I agree, not really needed

Less subscriber = less AWS bill, data center cost, AI training cost, engineering costs. Believe it or not this is good for tesla!

Non-authoritarians don’t steal businesses then murder their owners, even if the owners are racist, fascist, fucks. If they had succeeded, they would have wound up like the large business concerns in every other authoritarian government in history.

Who wants to tell him? Has no one told him?

Even if they did, they wouldn't buy a terrible product from an unreliable nazi.

I enjoy driving, long road trips are my thing. But there's a great use case to have true self-driving cars for older parents or young kids that can't drive.

and that kills people.

BUY BYD

I don’t know. I think the sales slump is mostly to do with him being a Nazi. I thought my M3 was great. I 100% ditched it for another EV because of Elon. I’m sure I’m not the only one. If he didn’t join Trump and MAGA and constantly run his mouth on his bigoted views, would still have it or even might have a new one.

More than a handful of brands already have level 4 driving…why would they lease a technology thats seemingly capped at level 2?

Yeah this is totally it. Fundamentally the only product the company works on is the stock. For all the promises of FSD he really has underinvested in it and crippled it with his "vision only" mantra. They are falling so far behind the competition the next hype pivot is humanoid robots. All from a guy who is not an engineer and never graduated college. The cars are a completely forgotten afterthought. Problem is without automotive revenue he can't fund any crazy ideas

Ahh - the Y and 3 are still viable products, but the demographic of the buyer of an EV strongly opposes totalitarianism and racism so the brand is fucked. Going to enjoy seeing him circle the drain the rest of my life. Now if he would just keep his money out of elections.

The products don't suck, but they're more on par with other brands nowadays. Back in the 2020 - 2021 period, I used to mention that all the people who claimed their Tesla is the best car they've ever owned was primarily because it was the first and only vehicle with an electric powertrain they'd ever owned. Other people said the exact same thing about their EVs and PHEVs from other brands, so long as the vehicles didn't break down. The difference was that Tesla was, by far, the largest producer and seller of EVs by that time, and thus \~80-90% of all EV owners were an army of Tesla owners (and shareholders/evangelist) going all over the web drowning out the voices of all other EV owners in order to convince new car buyers to buy a Tesla. This was the time of the great youtube algorithm drive built by Tesla fans. Every other day there was a new drag race video, a new EV review directly comparing another brand's EV against a Tesla, there was the EV blogs and vlogs owned and operated by Tesla owners and shareholders... etc... As soon as you clicked on video related to Tesla, you'd get flooded with more in your recommendations. The Nazi / fascist thing was definitely a bigger issue than I think many want to believe it was, in that it stopped the bandwagon of new adoption of Teslas and stopped the blind support of the EV community's media. That's a lot of free advertising they lost. Instead Tesla has now had to pivot to paid commercials, more store fronts, and has had to rely a lot on existing owners / shareholders who didn't want to admit fault with Musk's fascist pivot (or didn't care) to trade in their old Teslas and buy new ones over all of the new competitors. Non-Tesla owners often went from not liking Elon Musk but still willing to potentially give a Tesla a try... to insisting they'll never consider a Tesla. Many existing owners also have decided to either trade in their vehicles or to never buy a Tesla again once it was time for a new vehicle.

That’s because Tesla doesn’t HAVE FSD.

Individuals behave much differently than corporations. Corporations have no appetite for virtue signaling; if there’s money to be made in a deal, they go for it. If nobody wants to license the tech it’s because it’s either dogshit tech or it’s priced too high to give a reasonable ROI.

Bravo

Yeah, that just means you’re an edge case, Deady.

Their FSD is basically in last place so this isn't surprising.  The only edge they have over others is they've advertised it as better but in every measurable way it's crap.

Why would they want something that doesn't work especially when some of them already have system that work far better than his junk?

THIS

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgzR2nyPZYA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgzR2nyPZYA)

Shocking nobody wants to pay for that death trap. Lmfao..

Why would they when they aren't truely autonomous and have no lidar. I checked out a Chevy Equinox EV and that thing has lidar and its a cheaper car than the Model Y and 3.

Am i the only one struggling to find a real case scenario where i would need to maintain a robot. Is it one of those purchases where you wonder how you lived so long without one

He's completely out of touch and think everyone else is too.

Or with a product that can repeatedly cause accidents.

In other news, Magic Bean futures are down.

But would you buy a new one when Teslas no longer offer anything exceptional even without the Nazi stuff?

r/NoShitSherlock

Show me a Non-authoritarian CEO, and I'll show you a rube for a fascist Board of Directors.

I wonder if it has the same requirements as Tesla’s “open patents” where if you use any of Tesla’s shit, it gives them the rights to all of your patents in return.

For the life of me I don't understand why people like pickles. I don't like pickles, so neither should anyone else

I didn’t say other people shouldn’t want it. 🙄

And the thing is if he focused more on the charger and fast charger licensing and tech he would do amazing licensing that out and adjusting it for European models. But it’s not sexy and flashy.

Well, his fantasy is that FSD somehow goes from whatever state it's in, to absolute perfection, letting it run flawlessly, 24/7, on all existing Teslas, giving him a massive robotaxi fleet overnight. Now if that were true, then maybe *part* of the valuation would be justified, right? No one else has to license it, if every Tesla has it, and every regular person can turn their car into a money making machine whenever they aren't using it. That's the theory anyway. It will never happen, but that's the idea.

Letting an 70kg autonomous humanoid robot into your home will be directly dangerous to you wellbeing for the next decade at least. I dont think you will regret not buying one to say the least

I don't really want to promote Tesla, but the infotainment is one of the best I've used in any car, even my current car with Carplay isn't as nice. Bluetooth connectivity is good. the price is good, the range is good. OTA software updates are trouble-free. The cars are speedy and roomy. The service to your door was a nice touch too. I don't trust FSD, how little they focus on safety now, and removing the stocks sucks. But it's hard to find another comparable EV, especially used, at that price point. So yes, if it wasn't for the Nazi stuff, I would probably have stuck with Tesla.

He is a narcissist. They are completely and utterly incapable of finding ANY fault with themselves, including any insane idea they put into action. He will be blaming his engineers when this thing falls apart eventually

They don't care it kills people as long as it doesn't trap them in the fire.

You just explained why I'll never be a successful gigilo.

A lot of Tesla evangelists had simply never driven a real luxury car before as well. I mean if you were buying a new Model 3 or Model S in 2019 and upgrading from a 7 year old Toyota Corolla it probably did feel like a big futuristic upgrade. But now if you compare it to pretty much any other luxury vehicle maker they're just way behind in terms of damn near everything. Something like a Lyriq or an i5 is just a way nicer car than pretty much anything Tesla sells. That's a big reason the sales of the S and X have collapsed imho, the last refresh was dogshit and pushed their minimalist nonsense too far. Even for the 3 and Y I'd argue a big part of why they're still hanging on is simply because a lot of people don't like the car shopping experience and having to go through dealers. I think the Nazi issue varies by region. It's been a massive deal in Europe for example but probably means all of nothing in China and wasn't nearly as big in the US as it likely should have been. Changes to subsidies are probably going to be a more substantial driver of sales declines going into next year. China remains their keystone market and it's going to be competition that ends up eating them alive there too. Overall though the company is continuing to rot from the head down. Their auto business has been in decline since the auto shortage of 2020-2022 due to post COVID shortages cleared up. All their auto factories are working way below capacity projections, margins have fallen and sales are slowing in pretty much every region. I think they're going to continue to get pressured as they lose ground to lower priced and more competitive BEVs from China on the low end and incumbent luxury brands on the high end. Overall Musk's politics and general assholery has undoubtedly damaged the brand as a whole too and really killed the prospects of growth going forward in the US and Europe too.

Correction automakers don't want to deal with the liability lawsuits that Tesla's FSD will cause without Tesla assuming total liability for their tech

Even if it did work 99% of the time, that 1% can (and has been) deadly, and Tesla has already shown they will not assume the liability for their tech and will instead blame whoever they can.  I had someone trying to defend a Tesla missing a stop sign because it was just one of those stop signs in front of a cross walk ... Ya the point is it not seeing/ignoring the stop sign means it failed, no matter if it was in a parking lot or not

People try to deal with Trump every day…

No one wants his chargers right now either - the v4 power cabinet may change that but the old cabinets and their 500v ceiling really killed their viability. Who wants a charger that is only optimized for one brands products, when everyone else is going to higher voltage battery platforms.

Even in the most basic conditions it doesn't even work most of the time. Saw a video of FSD attempting to enter a wrong way in a parking lot that had signs on both the left and right side that said do not enter and wrong way

Imagine that, 70kg robot. Where would it sleep? Most of us live in apartments and/or roommates... Where would this robot reside? Shared robot services? So hotels would love this?

Dude, no way!

Why would it sleep? We’re not talking about sentient intelligences that need creature comforts, it’s more like a Roomba that connects to the chatgpt API. Most likely they’ll go sit down in a corner on a docking station.

When Tesla opened their charging network, the other auto companies got a taste of working with Elon. The charging team was fired without notice. Then partially hired back. Employees who had been their point of contact disappeared without a replacement being named. Deadlines were missed by months. The companies weren't able to provide their customers with reliable dates as to when they would get access. The companies lost credibility with their own customers because of Tesla's inability to perform as a stable partner. Given all this, why would any company embark on partnering with Tesla on a technology that is at least an order of magnitude more complex than charging? The risks aren't worth it. Other companies are rapidly catching up and they have architectures that allow for the incorporation of Lidar if it proves necessary.

I rented a Ford Expedition a few weeks back and got the opportunity to use its version of self-driving for a seven hour roadtrip. In a nutshell Teslas version of FSD does more but Fords version is more solid and reliable I can see why Ford would just build off what they already have.

Agree to a point about the luxury cars. Ironically my two previous cars were BMWs, and my latest for the last 7 years has been a Chevy Volt. The Volt, while certainly not as luxurious and certainly doesn't drive as well, is still the best car I've owned, exclusively because of the powertrain. But then that's just my own personal anecdote.

The European manufacturers saw the limitations of the NACS connector years ago. Tesla was going to roll it out to the EU but it can't handle 3 phase AC (common in many EU homes). Tesla at the time had a problem the Model S was due for a Euro Launch, but Tesla couldn't afford the new panel dies to change/enlarge the physical location of the port to accommodate the CCS port which had a higher capacity. Instead Elon threw his dummy out of the pram, left the standards committee and Tesla used an obscure standard of the ISO Type 2 plug or DC for early S/X cars. (If memory serves that standard went up to 63A @400v and Tesla opted to use duty cycle limits to achieve higher peak numbers on early EU SuCs). It was actually the Chinese Charging Standard that forced Tesla to bring change the bodywork of the S/X. EU then mandated CCS for public charging and the rest is history.. It's a real shame as the EU CCS variant is now also a US standard, albeit one designed for bus/commercial fleet market and is superior to NACS.

They might if it worked

Well I guess they realize that camera-only system is not real FSD. He could add support for LiDAR but is too stubborn to do so. He thinks it must work because that is how humans operate. But we suck at it as well. FSD needs to be superhuman.

No one who wants to make a good business is taking care about what or who he is. Fact is, it’s not good business he is offering. This is not cancelling a fascist, there’s just no argument in doing business with him

That’s why I think he should have focused on that ensuring it works for everyone. He is insanely short sighted and assumes Tesla would be the only real option and rather than making his chargers and ports more appealing he decided to be musk.

They were in talks. It went like this Elon: "do you want to license our software?" Other companies: "No" Elon: "are you sure?" Other companies: "no" ...etc

My business along with a lot of others don’t want to be in any way shape or form even risk to be mistaken as supporting Musk. My employees are not allowed to drive Tesla’s when on company business if they use private cars. We’re also actively pursuing other options in terms of all other american goods and software due to Trump’s behaviour.

Robots will become a thing when they are basically girlfriend/boyfriend replacements. I use the word replacement because if a 25+ year old male can purchase basically a sex bot that cleans and doesn’t complain that he spends too much time with his friends, it is a guaranteed winner. If you think birth rates suck now, wait till sex bots become a thing.

100% Correct. IF the technology was better and / or similar and cheaper everyone would rush to license it regardless of Musk being a dick. We (as a nation and as individual companies) are doing business with multiple authoritarian regimes and honestly, no one really cares! This isn't really about Musk. Musk did effectively kill his relationship with his direct consumers by being a maga cult leader, but business would still buy or license his tech if it was good and helped them compete. They might almost be forced to if it was actually viable and better than alternatives. The fact that they are not licensing it, shows his tech is not really better or viable or deemed or considered "safe enough" at this time.

This is true. They can't trust what he says. But if he wasn't lying he would be telling everyone NOT to license his still unsafe tech.

He is still selling millions of his cars.

The cars could have been great if Elon hadn't been involved, disrupting the engineers by forcing his own ideas into the process. In the beginning, many thought Tesla was selling cars based solely on the promise of FSD, but the Model 3 and Model Y were actually decent vehicles, despite quality issues often caused by Elon’s interference and his bad decisions. However, he consistently over-promised and under-delivered, particularly with the Cybertruck. This, combined with his support for far-right figures and his promotion of 'replacement theory' and other conspiracies, has alienated many. If they had simply focused on quality once they scaled production, the car business would be in a much better position today.

> For the life of me I will never understand why anybody wants their car to drive itself. I love to drive, but back when I drive 45+m each way, it was soul sucking. Going WFH was like cutting my day in half when considering how I felt at the end of it.

Real case scenarios can be made for them in areas like manufacturing, security or as a remote controlled solution to dangerous environments but even then a variety of shapes other than humanoid like Boston Dynamics dog robots probably makes more sense. All these examples of them doing household chores like vacuuming or mowing the lawn are nothing more than a desperate grasp to find a market for them hoping sci fi fans who can afford to waste money (like Elon) will buy them just because. Having humanoid sized robot with high centers of gravity and sensors five feet above ground while also needing to maintain and store separate vacuums and mowers designed for humans to use will always be inferior to task specific devices like the robot vacuums and mowers that already exist which keeps sensors close to the ground where the dirt or grass is and offers a low center of gravity.

Buying vaporware is one thing. Licensing vaporware is an order of magnitude dumber.

Well to be fair most of these CEOs seem to like what fascism is doing for their tax breaks and bottom lines.

SAE knew what they were doing when they released the J3016 autonomous driving levels. It's not just a classification system but a sensible development roadmap. Going from L2 straight to L5 with a software update does not make sense. If Tesla FSD was on a serious development roadmap they would be talking about L3 deployment where the system is able to identify some "easy" driving conditions where it feels confident it can safely drive itself without real time supervision and can give the driver notification well before they're needed to take over. Then the L3 conditions would gradually expand as they collect real world data until they're finally able to guarantee unsupervised driving under all possible conditions within entire geographic regions, which would be an L4 product. Then the L4 regions would gradually expand as they map and validate more areas and potentially start expanding to certain assumed safe regions without full mapping. True L5 would be a very distant goal. The reason Tesla isn't doing this is because under their system there really are no driving conditions and modes that are "easy" enough. There are certainly some conditions where FSD does relatively better than other conditions, maybe a lot better, but not really approaching where it can guarantee safety without needing someone to supervise 100% of the time and be ready to intervene at a split second without notice. The computer vision and neural net only trajectory reasoning stacks are just not reliable enough. Elon is confident that with enough training and compute it would be but so far he's been repeatedly wrong about what constitutes as "enough" and it's not even clear that any realistic amount will ever be enough. FSD v14 seems to have been retrained to drive more conservatively and defensively but this isn't a panacea and while it may lower the risk floor it introduces new risks with unnecessary hard braking (and makes the driving experience more annoying) The other major automakers are not stupid, they've all done extensive research into autonomous driving and know that Tesla isn't offering something worth licensing.

Probably fired off some emails to other brands and received an acknowledgement of their offer. Tesla then counts that as "discussions with manufacturers". It's like that carousel of monochrome big brand logos you find on every fly-by-night SaaS product website. Someone signs up to Rubbish.ly with an @ uber.com work email out of curiosity, next thing the Uber logo appears on their homepage proclaiming "These Fortune 500 companies trust Rubbish.ly!"

You're right.... It's a perfect storm of negativity hitting the company and his personality is just a piece of that. His products are ancient and dated looking. His FSD product is dead on the vine. There appears to be no real upcoming automotive breakthrough so now he just pushes "robots".

*It's same as with sales slump. It's not because of Leon being a nazi.* I disagree. While I agree he's a fraud, and that his products are dangerously overrated, most of the complaints I hear about him irl are focused on his political leanings.

Those little automated vacuum robots are pretty cool and useful. Humanoid robots, no.

People that would buy a sex robot instead of having a human partner would indeed be peacefully eliminated from the gene pool. I'm ok with this.

Stock about to go another +5% on this news

Ngl I don’t even want to pay $10/ month. The whole shit is gimmick. They gave me 2 times 30 days trial. Used it first 5 minutes and was like uhm nope.

I got those trials as well. Every time I grabbed control it asked me why and I said, basically, this shit doesn’t work and stop trying to fucking kill me. I just said it loudly.

either you forgot the /s of this take is a hot steaming pile. the cost of a subscription or license takes all those costs into account plus some profit. With fewer subscriptions there are fewer users to amortize the costs and the cost of covering the back end for their customers is more expensive than the world in which they had an addition few million FSD licenses to spread the costs over. Plus of course they dont get the profit that is part of the calculation.

The toymaker in Bladerunner. Surrounded by his own robot toys

He thinks he’s Steve Jobs and can just bully his engineers into producing magic.

Probably a different story if it was actually full self driving and musk wasn't a maniac.

Honestly it is pretty classic "startup stuff" - there's little planning for the future, just fix the problem in front of you. The issue, as it always has been, is that traditional OEMs do not work like that. This means they are often slow to introduce new tech, but when they do they bring it in a highly scalable fashion. Elon built the best chargers in the world .. in 2014/2015. But since he had a hardware limitation in peak voltage, and a potential software solution by just constantly increasing current... They went for the software solution. Even to the point of running 900+ amps so the CT could boast 325kw charging despite the fact that this current level is pants-on-head insane, considering the vehicle can actually support native 800v charging.

The Model X was the first real interference Elon made (the Model S was underway even before Elon was a "full time" CEO). The Turkey Wing doors made the X horrendously late, came with significant compromises (snow falling in anyone), and sold far less than it should given the broader SUV market dynamics.

No kidding. Here’s three reasons why: 1. The tech isn’t good enough. 2. Tesla’s corporate governance is fraudulent 3. Elon is a massive prick who more or less single handedly got Trump re-elected and a lot of countries are very pissed off about that.

I mean we have over 50 years of robotics in manufacturing. Of course they are designed for specific tasks and are not humanoid looking. Musk/Tesla isn’t doing anything to improve robotics in manufacturing. There isn’t a market for what Tesla is promoting, even if they make it work with remote control or by hiding a human inside

lol. nobody wants nazi software.

They can’t even license it if they want to because their hardware is so different and Tesla was too stupid to develop a common hardware platform to sell. Meanwhile Rivian is literally making a common platform for VW, scout, and others to use which will then enable licensing of autonomy features.

Because FSD is only for people who like sitting in the driver’s seat with both hands two inches above the steering wheel so they can stop their car from crashing into things on a moments notice. Then when they get home they go on social media to pump their TSLA shares with nonsense claims about FSD performance, non-existent robotaxis, and robots.

Farmers similarly refuse to purchase my “loose stool in a paper bag” crop fertilizer! Despite it dripping with potential.

It's kinda interesting to me, reading MotorTrend's opinion on Tesla and 'FSD'(s). In general, they seem to have a positive attitude about it, "except for when it randomly quits working". Is a product really great, if it works great, except for when it's terrible?

You police what your employees are allowed drive as personal cars? Well that sounds like a great workplace. (This is one you tell me about your great culture and how everyone is dying work there and you treat everyone like family)

Tesla confirms a revenue stream is lost. Stock rises by 5%

If they’re on company business representing us, yes of course. What they do in their private time is none of my concern.

Apparently ford was interested a couple years ago. But tesla refusing to accept liability probably killed the discussions.

This is funny. He thought everyone would want it. The reality is they want to stay in business rather than invite lawsuits when people get hurt or worse. Also, his system probably doesn’t pass their process for creating safe systems.

I was thinking more like 5 smaller Chuckie sized robots that can voltron together when they really need to cause damage.

well as long as you reveal that red flag in the early interviews. then people will know what awaits them

Of course. They also aren’t allowed to have chinese cars, as per requirement from our clients, if that makes you more comfortable. Tesla is however my decision.

Companies don’t want to license a shitty product from a shitty company owned by a shitty person. Shocking.

I got banned from commenting on the Tesla threads because I mentioned that FSD has: confused a tollbooth/passport control box in France for a lorry. confused motorway bridges ahead as an obstruction in the road - and braked from 70 to 63 sharply enough to annoy the others in the car who then question my driving! frequently tried to turn off into a sliproad because the motorway was bending slightly to the right (am in UK) confused lamp posts for people in a motorway construction zone inside the central reservation with a 10mph constuction sign insisted I should be doing 10mph on the motorway! Also in the dark roads near where I live said "multiple cameras obscured or blinded by sunlight" on a sunny road "multiple cameras obscured or blinded by sunlight" it's got better - but is not even reliable on motorways with few things to look for - and no pedestrians.

His FSD is a complete fraud. There are much better lidar and camera based systems that actually won’t kill your family. Why would anyone trust this lying POS

Whose? Just curious. I’m always in the conversation with my friends and can’t come up with a legitimate automaker. Any source. Not trying to be a jerk

Cause the Tesla version doesn’t work well and there are better approaches available

I think Elon is looking for someone of your qualities

....because it's absolute trash.

You're not. Also, I've said elsewhere that Musk is completely ignoring the fact that one of these robots will have hundreds of mechanical actuators, moving parts and sensors and will require an insane amount of maintenance. It's not like maintaining an iPhone. Remember the Tesla bot falling backwards and crashing onto the floor? I'd practically guarantee that a fall like that damaged something that required repair. Musk is a freaking BILLIONAIRE. Buying one of these robots would be pocket change for him. Maintaining it would be something one of his staff members would handle. Ordinary people? Good luck keeping it working.

Imagine the subscription model on that.

Good. I don't want to buy anything that supports Elon

Are you in the US? Here in Australia there are tonnes of great alternatives to Tesla. BYD's lineup in particular is particularly impressive.

There is a case, but not the way musk is going about it. If there was a robot that could cook and clean and do laundry and food clothes, and my kids were out of the house, respond to emails and help me lift stuff, set up the Christmas tree, etc. I'd probably pay 250k + 1000/month for such a service. But musk's robot can't even get a pre -planned drink order right.

But if sex bots got as good as you need it to be, then why would we need birth rates? If it was capable of serving mankind's needs, then it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for the population to drop to like 200M

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrPtABSGE9g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrPtABSGE9g)

I've only ran into that sort of thing one other time. My client Lexus Nexus was telling their folks and consultants that they weren't allowed to drive their Lexus to the Campus. Definitely raised my eyebrow. But it was a short engagement and I didn't own a Lexus so I let it slide. One company was suing the other over the name Lexus (don't remember which). But even then I felt that was really an overstep. I heard they dropped that rule sometime after they settled the suit though.

Not stopping them from buying CAFE credits from Tesla. Which is probably about the only real value that company has and is their most successful product.

It depends which part of the load of bullshit that is a Tesla you'd like to beat. Mercedes beats the whole thing though, an easy go to if you want to have that conversation with your friends. It's genuinely a FAR better built car and always will be.

HAHAHA, this thought passed my mind. Also, Being Musk, the robot will sit on a big rod to charge.

Not if the cars are going to randomly veer into oncoming traffic, they at least learned their lesson on killing customers with the Pinto…👌

That's makes no sense for telsa to do that, as if his software could be in other cars why would anyone buy one

Why would anyone want to buy a shitty broken product... from a fascist?

They don't need to be sued for this nonsense. You think GM, Toyota, VW, Mercedes etc haven't tried to do this ? It does not work for them. Benz and GM sorta kinda put this into the top of the top line cars, but you have to ask for it and pay. They know the stupidest person out there, will buy the car, use it all wrong, in a worst case scenario....die and the family will sue the name plastered to the hood and trunk. Sell a few million units and statistically this is 100% going to occur. Also, no reputable car maker will get in bed with Tesla for Elon reasons.

It does not work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX_1138

My test use case for humanoid is turning hotel / AirBnBs between guests. That's a human-shaped job.

Elon, out in Lidar and maybe the sentiment will change… but I know you’re all about vision based. Lidar is a key requirement for SAE Level 4 FSD.

Comma AI is ready to license and works great, I love my kit

They will stand in the darkness by your bed while you sleep, watching over you with unblinking eyes, recording everything, waiting for the command.

They never did. It was a narrative(he and fanboy analysts)they created to justify the valuation. Remember Kathy who kept on and kept on about the "data" Tesla was collecting and how it alone would be worth trillions. What about robotaxi? Also with trillion. What about Optimus? Also a trillion dollar business. Now it monthly subscription for FSD. Always some gimmick with this guy The hopium is off the charts with tesla.

Maybe he can buy all the automakers and force FSD on them. All the musk rats seem to think this way when people don’t agree with his views. 😂

You’ll be (that is, the robot manufacturer will be) competing against very low-wage actual humans. Better hope they’re damn cheap robots to design, build, charge and maintain.

Maybe if Tesla didn't have the worst quality record of all North American cars, could provide proof FSD was actually safe, and the company wasn't headed by a racist shitbag...then they would actually be interested.

I quite like my wife, even if she doesn’t always agree with me. She’s also fairly into sex.

I'm comforted by the fact that when I'm too old to take care of myself, I'll have cars that can drive me where I need to go and robots to help me around the house just like a caretaker... but at a fraction of the cost of live-in care takers or retirement homes. That is an excellent real world scenario.

POS “ car” run by a notsee and yall still buying them.

I can at least understand his argument: that there's no easy way to choose what to do in cases where you have all these sensors disagreeing, you ultimately have to pick one, so you should just rely on one. And that the roads are designed for eyes, so that one should be a camera. But he shouldn't be surprised when others aren't on board lol

From what I see, he did it wrong. Waymo is light years ahead of Tesla.

He is just selling his „Wunderwaffen“ to whoever… surprised that nobody wants to. Us his toys. Very 😢

My best guess at this stage is that Tesla investors are convinced that they are also buying part of SpaceX, an assumption that might not be valid.

Money/greed. The real reason is because it doesn’t work.

His fallacy is that if roads are designed for eyes, then to make autonomous driving better than today’s human driving, you need to do more, not just automate the existing stuff.

Why would they want to license software from a competitor?

On the contrary, sensor fusion has been a solved problem for like a century now.

Wow he actually stated a fact for once

Not only blame others but straight up engage in a coverup.

Buy FSD for $10k but get locked in a burning vehicle for free.

Not to mention the fact that the supercharger network is pretty great whereas FSD has some capabilities but not enough to be very useful.

And he’s a lying fascist. 😂

Let me guess: the stock jumps 20%

Companies will do that from time to time, but it has to be something that's actually worthwhile. Licensing FSD from Tesla would be like other companies putting Hyundai's Theta II engines in their vehicles.

New FSD is only a year old regardless of what many proponents think. It only started with V12 so years of research and coding went down drain. Rivian is technically a year or so behind in their effort but they will do machine learning around several sensors. Perhaps car makers are waiting for this experiment to show itself. With AFEELA doing similar, incorporating more cameras, LiDAR and radar and having their AI train around multiple sensors rather than just cameras. It’s amazing what Tesla can do without cameras (never though it possible with car computer) but if someone makes same system and give me redundancies I’ll prefer not Tesla. Tesla needs to admit that relying on cameras alone will have limitations in bad weather or if something covers front camera, and incorporate other sensors if they want to achieve true autonomy in any weather.

Gee who would have thought that a steady stream of videos of Tesla FSD veering people into the path of trucks and trains would result in nobody wanting the fucking thing, shocker!

That's because they hated us (anyone not a technofascist) even before Trump got elected.

Tesla is a tech company, not a car company. Car companies prefer car technology.

Why would anyone deal with someone like him?

I assume the room-mates will pass the robot around to a different bed each night.

Depends on the product. I have a power tool that randomly quits because the battery charger randomly doesn't charge all the way, but all it takes is 30 min back on the charger, so no big deal. FSD randomly not working is terrible, and should disqualify it for use on the public highways.

Waymo is a legitimate competitor to Teslas FSD.

I took Waymo a few times last summer. It is exceptionally good, I felt safer riding around the busy streets of San Francisco in that thing than any other human-driven automobile. Very impressive technology, right down to understanding curb markers for no stopping or parking zones.

how so? - Tesla is in a driver assist (L2) market with their FSD. - Waymo is in autonomous systems (no driver) market (and is vocal about how driver assist is wrong because you cannot make a person babysit an autonomous system so advanced driver assist tech will not work in the end) Looks totally different.

Can’t wait for the kill-switch Tesla can pull as part of Americas foreign policy

So me the vision only decision is like making production line robots limited to the speed of a human workers. Why not use vision and sensors and any other technology’s. To make it better than just vision

Well yeah it's shit. A camera only system has a big limit on how good it can ever be.

> I don't really want to promote Tesla, but the infotainment is one of the best I've used in any car, even my current car with Carplay isn't as nice. Bluetooth connectivity is good. the price is good, the range is good. OTA software updates are trouble-free. The cars are speedy and roomy. The service to your door was a nice touch too. I think you've had a better experience than most. Service is widely understood to be terrible and Musk has acknowledged that. Depreciation is greater than any other vehicle. They are the least reliable vehicles on the road. And they're built like crap. Meanwhile there are plenty of better and more modern options available. Teslas are legacy EV.

Huawei say their 6G satellite will be global by 2030, I believe them. Imagine the GPS capability of their 6G satellite platform in 2030 & how their new chip developes & you've gotta think autonomous vehicles in the air & on the road will eclipse anything anyone else will have (including Waymo) on offer. I'd bet companies like BYD & Xaomi will be the trendsetters then, if not now. Save your pennies. Don't waste your time, energy & money on Tesla & their version of FSD ( the lying c**ts)!

No, they want something that will work.

You would be surprised. Have you tried it with HW4. It’s very good compared to a few years ago. I use it all the time.

Yes. It's not good. The Honda front camera lane assist is better.

Obviously you don’t own a recent Tesla with FSD.

No I don't anymore. My brother has a new one. It's junk.

🤦‍♂️

Yea, that's how FSD is.

Don’t for get the cybertruck 🤣

The only way I would ever pay money to own my own robot is if it could be an electrician, a plumber, a housekeeper, and basically do everything I don’t want to do. Right now they can’t even load a dishwasher.

It’s only bad for capitalism. ☺️

"Don't date Robots!" Cue Futurama episode..

No shit

tbh i'd be greatful for a small robot dog assistant (light-up snout) that had saddlebags with my hand tools and could go in crawl spaces with me and carry materials in its mouth. i'd buy that for a dollar

Praise King Musk

I was against sex robots but now I'm for it, thank you /u/Rolling_Pugsly

Eyes are millions of times more sophisticated than cameras because they are connected to brains, which are a billion times more sophisticated than any computer. Things that are simple for us (such as judging whether something is tiny or just really far away) are difficult problems for vision only. Hence why sensors are a very necessary addition.

If I was another major car company, I would stay clear of Tesla for everything especially FSD with the potential liability from accidents etc. You can see people blaming FSD for accidents even when it was their fault. Even if it is proven that it wasn't FSD, the legal time and money could soon add up. Then there are the actual FSD accidents. If a car in FSD swerves to miss a human stepping into the road and hits another car, causing injury to the other cars drivers and passengers, how would that scenario work out. I can see years of litigation coming from FSD, especially in the early days of implementation. Who wants that?

"I can't believe they want us to accept liability for our new product we insist is safe" - Cyber Ribcage with his robot voice

It isn't going to exist anyway. At best you'll buy one and Eric Cartman will turn up in a box.

I wonder how much Tesla could have brought down the price of Lidar if they had fully embraced it and put their resource into it.

If you want fsd take a bus

Self-leveling laser eyes would be a nice touch.

I’ll form the Head!

Personality matters too. He’s incredibly petty and vindictive. If the deal sours he won’t just walk away he’ll need a pound of flesh.

I mean, Henry Ford did a lot of business back in the day

It was never about the cost, it was about being "smarter" than the rest.

I am not that familiar with TSLA, but I know the amount of investment into that stock are enormous and my understanding is that annual car sales income pales in comparison to the investment income.

This fucks me off no end. They claim open source when they demand IP in exchange which is fundamentally against the principles of open source tech. I was even at a humanitarian conference and of all places this hag from the WTO presented on all the great benefits of IP - which overwhelmingly harms the humanitarian sector - and used Tesla as a fucking example. It took great energy not to confront her at lunch, I probably should have done. Eugh.

NVIDIA just announced they’re giving theirs away for free, open source code, which will allow them to tailor the inputs however they like (lidar, camera count, etc.). Why would anyone pay Elon for his inferior cameras-only product?

They don't want to license something that doesn't exist? But how? Next, you'll tell me they don't want to upholster the interiors with centaur hides or wrap the steering wheel in Kraken tentacles.

Do you really believe the answer would be no if it went like this? Elon: “we’ll license the software $5/car, throw in HW4 for free, and accept all liability” Of course not; all the decisions were based on money. Elon didn’t offer a deal in the car companies’ best interest.

Aaaand the fake odometers

who wants to license a crappy product, Elmo?

Maybe auto makers aren’t as dumb as…Elon? They certainly aren’t buying what he’s selling.

The average American driver wants to DRIVE their vehicle they just spent $50,000+ on, FSD is a minor fringe market demand item. China will be making robots at a fraction of what Tesla will charge. Tesla stock is way overpriced…..

True. It also has to be something where you aren't relying on someone else's platform if possible. Relying on a Musk product for core functions seems spectacularly stupid

Definitely why companies will co-develop things often, kinda like the GM/Ford 10 speed transmission.

tesla doesnt even accept liability for their own customers, no way they would offer it for licensing.

Color me surprised.

Again, it’s all a matter of money. You’re right that lawsuits can be very expensive so Elon would charge mucho bucks for that. And he’d charge big bucks for HW4 too.

After seeing that weird robot party thing they did where it turned out they were being puppeted by people behind the scenes, I sort of wonder if FSD is just Tesla employees remoting into the cars and driving through the cameras from an office somewhere. And maybe thats why it doesnt always act the same, or predictably.

That's my biggest issue with Tesla. Mercedes claims liability when using their drive pilot on approved roads. That says it all really.

I’ll license Full self driving when it exists. When I can ride in the back seat of my own vehicle, by myself, and be driven end to end, then it’s worth paying for. Until that point, I’m not funding Teslas R&D.

A lying fascist whose auto pilot technology will never actually work because he decided he didn’t want to use lidar

Because it SUCKS

Exactly like this. I work for a smaller SaaS company we actually have Fortune 500 enterprise customers, but we do not put their logos on our landing page. Also we think no one would believe us that they are our customers in the first place. And everyone that really has these companies as customers knows that there can be legal consequences to put an other companies logo on your SaaS without written approval.

Tesla technology is not trusted, people, who believed. in Elon, the moron, self driving has died because the car crashed into object. No one believe this moron anymore.

Recharging takes time, even for batteries

The charger network is pretty simple, you charge and you pay... It's a recycled concept. FSD is vaporware, companies know it's not safe and not ready to roll out. Volvo has managed to make a pretty robust driver assist automation and even they market it as an assist, not as self driving.

honestly, not really, it doesn't support 800V and the newly revealed EX60 charges at 400kW which vastly exceeds the networks capability.

I'm usually the one on the other subs pointing out to people that there are actually more ccs charging locations available now than there are supercharger locations and getting downvoted because people assume that I said something other than locations. But there was a time period when the supercharger network was clearly superior to the total set of CCS chargers, both in the distribution of locations and in reliability. They aren't the fastest by any means, the lack of payment terminals is annoying if you don't own a Tesla, and the cables are too short to work well across different vehicle models. But they do do a good job of continuing to expand capacity at popular spots so that there's not often much waiting needed and they do a good job with reliability.

yeah it's just the app thing and v3 parking issues for me :( supercharger is definitely old news since Elmo fired everyone they have regressed.

I mean, most people wouldn’t buy a car whose components pay Elon Musk. Period.

I don't understand why they would not want to license it, unless it's just too hard for them to put their minds around. If anybody else had full self driving at the level that Tesla has, I would buy their vehicles, I would've bought a pick up truck with it, rather than another Tesla. Perhaps Tesla doesn't want to license it because they know that we would buy other vehicles so they try to charge too much money for it and other manufacturers are not willing to license it at that level. If a Ford lightning pickup truck had FSD at the level my Tesla model Y has, one would be sitting in my driveway right now.

Same thing happened with their fleet business for a while

erm like what is there to license? :D the technology of missing crucial sensors? the technology to drive straight into a closed train crossing with a train going through? the technology of not having any robotaxi, that drives by itself most of the time without a safety person following it in a 2. car? or is it basic lane keeping and safety breaking stuff, because this last part those other auto makers already got figured out.

>if it proves necessary it IS necessary. it is not an if. it would be only insane people (elon), who claim otherwise in their absurd clueless ketamine fulled ramblings. the one thing other companies can thank tesla for, trying it without lidar, because of an insane evil person and failing.

No shit. FSD doesn’t work well enough. Safety is not a concern for Elon. It is for the rest of the industry.

It’s definitely both. Sales plummeting the last year has a lot to do with his fascism. FSD is also unreliable. Camera only is not enough.

Probably killed the testers.

Of course. Why would anyone rely on a lying sociopath for a critical part of their automotive software. He’d be baiting and switching and making you reliant then raise prices to make you sorry.

Pretty great? 12 of the 15 supercharger sites near me didn’t have more than 3 functional chargers during the last snowstorm

fElon had "concepts of a plan" to license Tesla FSD.

My work looked into the Boston Dynamics robot for hazardous environment use. The annual cost (software snd hardware maintenance) is over $30k per year, not counting the initial $200+k price of the robot itself.