TSLA Terathread - For the week of Dec 15

Here is the link to last week's Terathread https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1ph8n4c/tsla_terathread_for_the_week_of_dec_08/

Going well so far

4 year Elonversary: *"I’ll be surprised if we’re not* ***landing on Mars within five years*** *- The next really big thing is to build a self-sustaining city on Mars and bring the animals and creatures of Earth there."* Cosmic ConMan, Dec 15, 2021 1 year to go, I guess. In totally unrelated news, a few weeks later, SpaceX raised $337 million.

PE 330

Lets parse Technoking's words very closely: *“Testing is underway with no occupant in the car.”* Notice a) He doesn't claim the car is driving itself b) He calls it "testing" c) He makes no claim that its "unsupervised" This is a photo from Trump's FB - its the "Robotaxi Control Room". If you dare to click, yes that is a steering wheel in front of a computer monitor. [https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/510326187\_1135578188598209\_7205753418941407199\_n.jpg?stp=cp6\_dst-jpg\_tt6&\_nc\_cat=105&ccb=1-7&\_nc\_sid=833d8c&\_nc\_ohc=JNecYvYmkvsQ7kNvwFBo621&\_nc\_oc=AdleAor5gG9SO0ri2g704ChgkMZWY0ZLkgD\_yAjVkaAoqXeZTUi8Xz1ZX46IgDoPUtpAXXv5HrDFCdSDeQ9JQmor&\_nc\_zt=23&\_nc\_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&\_nc\_gid=9B0P5QMcCxcQIELWQzcxRw&oh=00\_AfkeYVLw\_xtmdukD59eILymWGj\_Ap0LFkBcijG-JRB0aWw&oe=694603A8](https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/510326187_1135578188598209_7205753418941407199_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=JNecYvYmkvsQ7kNvwFBo621&_nc_oc=AdleAor5gG9SO0ri2g704ChgkMZWY0ZLkgD_yAjVkaAoqXeZTUi8Xz1ZX46IgDoPUtpAXXv5HrDFCdSDeQ9JQmor&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&_nc_gid=9B0P5QMcCxcQIELWQzcxRw&oh=00_AfkeYVLw_xtmdukD59eILymWGj_Ap0LFkBcijG-JRB0aWw&oe=694603A8) Clearly all this means is TSLA thinks it can do all the "supervising" remotely. So Branch Elonians need to pull themselves together, dry off, and keep their vigil for Musk to deliver nirvana.

This is why Tesla is about to rocket to $500? This is barely news, much less a catalyst to push up the stock, lol. Elon supporters are so insane.

Yep. "Hey Grok, how much does a tele-operator make supervising Tesla's robotaxi fleet in Austin?" >No public information is available on the specific salary for remote tele-operators (remote human supervisors) overseeing Tesla's robotaxi fleet in Austin as of December 2025. >**Tesla has been building teleoperation capabilities for its robotaxi operations**, with reports from 2024–2025 indicating **hiring for teleoperation software engineers** and reliance on "plenty of tele-ops" for safety in the Austin pilot program (which launched in mid-2025 with a small fleet of Model Y vehicles). The service still involves heavy human oversight, including in-vehicle safety monitors and remote support, but no job listings or reports disclose pay for pure remote tele-operator roles. I have no idea why anyone thinks Elon just waved a magic wand and all of the sudden FSD "works". If that were true, would Tesla not finally "deliver" FSD to its customers and announce: SAE Level 5 is here, so feel free to take a nap? But stonk is shooting up right now, in the face of a certain 2nd year in a row sales decline, loss of credits and no new models on the drawing board. Edit: Look at that control room - almost 100 people...to "control" 30ish robotaxis. And people believe that suddenly went to zero and there's a crew there right now packing up monitors and coiling up cable?

If SpaceX really goes public at over $1.5 trillion, this will look almost reasonable.

>"Tesla rises 4% after Wedbush issues bullish outlook projecting up to $3 trillion valuation by 2026" The more that Tesla EPS and forward-looking EPS projections go down, the more he increases his price target for Tesla.

Yeah, SpaceX IPO p/e would be bonkers though I wonder if it would crash initially from early investors looking for a payout

Yep, but the analysts still need to cut further. The 2027 EPS estimate is over 2x the 2025 estimate. Analysts are expecting revenues to grow 35% during that time. With no new models it just isn't going to happen.

All time, Spacex investors have raised $12 billion. If they managed to con people into buying in with a $1.5 trillion valuation, they can double their money and exit with just 2% of the company trading.

For some context, Amazon is valued at $2.5 trillion, with revenue 6-7 times that of TSLA...and profit 8-9 times that of TSLA.

I thought humans would be on Mars in 2024. Does the number just change depending how much coke he's on? https://futurism.com/elon-musk-is-officially-sending-humans-to-mars-in-2024

Elon, his friends, and their families are going to start using their secret family offices to pump the stock price above the comp package levels to get him paid. They will try to rewrite the comp package or plead shareholders to forget about the other half of the requirements requiring cars or robots sold

Crazy amount of lies from tesla infuencers. They openly say that tesla removed supervisors from their fleet. That didn't happen though, all that happened is we saw 2 second long clip of a test. They must know this, they are openly lying to pump the stock.

> Crazy amount of lies from tesla infuencers. As usual

market cap up today more than Ford's entire market cap https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HflVng6sYIb6Gs4pOKiDGtqU5YJ2-hgdM4pRNaT62gs/edit?gid=930363066#gid=930363066 $58B is 10X Uber's TTM operating income. $1.5T market cap @ 30 P/E is $50B/yr income . . . . it's a short list for that level of performance, even Exxon isn't on it . . . https://companiesmarketcap.com/most-profitable-companies/

then again $50B / 360 days = $140M/day, over 5M units that's ~$30/day profit per unit. 10 trips per day per unit $3/profit per trip . . . doable I guess . . . *if* there's a moat here.

Tesla (and all other EV brands as well) had a sudden and unexpected surge in sales when it comes to the European Daily 5 countries tracker. Norway passed a law scrapping a large part of their EV tax incentive and now everyone is rushing to buy EVs by the end of the year. This seems to be the only positive news when it comes to Tesla deliveries in 2025Q4. US sales are down, EU sales are still expected to be down by ~10% overall despite the surge in demand in Norway. China will probably be down around ~10%. Their Bitcoin holdings are also down. 2025Q4 might already be a net negative quarter for Tesla, with 2026 expected to be worse in every way.

stock is priced for 2030 not 2026

Are there any new models expected by 2030?

Elon is going for the lights-out model so the factories will be repurposed to pump out replacement cybertaxis instead of actual customer cars. operating a fleet, a car can theoretically make $30/day every day for a year or two before being recycled, $20K or so. Makes no sense to continue to make customer cars when that amount of money is on the table.

So you are now saying that Tesla will actually have 1 million Robotaxis on the road by the end of 2020? And they will make more on those than on their current main business, selling cars (and FSD!) to consumers? Do you know that the taxi business is a low margin business? Waymo has been operating robotaxis for years and they are not profitable.

I'm new here. I agree with most of what everyone says. So why does the market disagree? The closest parallel is Amazon pre dot-com crash when there were a ton of skeptics and everyone thought it was a bookstore. Then it went down >90%. Then it went up 1 jillion percent. Tesla has way more problems than Amazon ever did. I don't believe it is Amazon. But even if it is, there has to be a reckoning. Right? Help me Tesla skeptics.

I'm stating their thesis, not mine LOL Their basic plan is to have a functioning Waymo-like taxi fleet making serious money by 2030. The vertical economics (including factories) are there if they can actually execute on the driverless part. Stay tuned!

I wouldn't compare it to amazon. Tesla bulls more often compare it to apple. Tesla bears respond by saying it's like blackberry. Tesla shareholders think people will be almost forced to buy Tesla cars or use Tesla robotaxis because they will have something unique and very desirable (genuine autonomy). Until it's obvious Tesla won't have a killer advantage I don't think Tesla will be properly valued.

The collapse of this complete and total fraud will be spectacular when it happens

I don't think they'll get there until 2100...

What's being priced-in now: 5 million robotaxis (Uber scale) 10 trips per day each $3 profit per trip $50B/yr operating profit, justifying the $1.5T market cap (@ 30 P/E)

Don’t forget 1,000,000,000 Optimus robots per year!

So if that’s already priced in … that means that the share price has nowhere to go, in the best case scenario.

>`Until it's obvious Tesla won't have a killer advantage I don't think Tesla will be properly valued.` That makes a lot of sense. I did not really mean the company is like Amazon, but that the level of skepticism towards it is on par with how people thought of Amazon back then. The apple vs. blackberry contrast is helpful, thanks for that.

every short just got wrecked and either has to get out or double-down, depending on their conviction.

wait what why would a short get out now? even in the best case scenario of perfect execution, the stock would remain stagnant cuz it’s already priced in. your words.

well, the (notional future) 30 P/E implies *more* growth; the $1.5T market cap is for a company growing aggressively and able to pummel all competitors in its space, 5M robotaxis is what's being priced-in *now*

I think that’s wildly optimistic for a company that’s 5 years behind its main competitor in that arena. We’re talking about 5 million BoboTaxis when they haven’t even had a *single* unsupervised passenger ride yet.

Ford just threw in the towel on BEVs: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-takes-195b-charge-in-hybrid-pivot-cancels-f-150-lightning-ev-launches-new-battery-storage-business-210713166.html

"We" being "the market", yes. Take it up with them LOL.

I think the 2017 Semi and 2020 Roadster are due any day now...

When GameStop and AMC were priced as high as it they were did it make sense? Of course not. But plenty of people were justifying it all the way back down to where it is now. Tesla is a meme stock and the only difference is Tesla has been this way for a long time and despite its failures continues to be a meme with a great PR campaign promoted by nonstop lies.

Video of a whole bunch of Cybertrucks at Starbase. I guess SpaceX is buying a lot of them. Elon can always count on his other companies as a customer of last resort. https://xcancel.com/ellieinspace/status/2000612387179671932

Does anyone remember how Toyota was stupid to not want to go all in on EV and continue to invest into hybrids?

My guess is that 33% is storage for unsold trucks, 33% are broken ones, 33% are depreciating on SpaceX books and 1% are actually in use.

I actually had a hybrid F150 as a rental for a couple of weeks and it was very very good. Around town it spent most of the time on electric and only really used the engine for charging the battery. With most trucks having the aerodynamics of a fridge it makes more sense to have a hybrid.

yup, agree 100% here for trucks, anything that tows, and high-roof vans too I suppose. also perhaps for actual sports cars, to get the weight down and still keep 3 hours / 200 miles between highway stops. Electric's big wins are "free" charging at home (if you have solar), monster torque, on-demand AWD, and regen braking, and hybrids can do that. My AWD Model Y gives me all that and also deletes the ICE entirely, so I prefer it, but I can see this current technology only really works best in this specific largish CUV package.

Isn't this good for rivian? With this and Cybertruck being DOA what other electric trucks are there?

# EU mulls withdrawing from 2035 green car plan, relaxing combustion‑engine ban [https://www.trtworld.com/article/b57867e5eeaf/amp](https://www.trtworld.com/article/b57867e5eeaf/amp)

Toyota knows what's up and more and more people who do the calculations now also do. It's very simple: You can make 5-10x profitable plug in hybrid cars for every unprofitable pure EV car. There's just not enough batteries for everyone on the planet to have EVs. It's that simple.

Stupid short-termist idea, this lack of policy clarity will just make us lose against Chinese EVs faster.

Toyota also saw that current battery tech doesn’t really meet requirements for a lot of consumers, which led them to invest heavily in solid-state batteries.

“The markets can remain irrational longer than you and can remain solvent.” — Gary Shilling

Today is a little slow for Elonversaries, so this one is a couple of days early: *"We are going to offer a mod package that enables* ***Cybertruck*** *to traverse at least 100m of water* ***as a boat****. Mostly just need to upgrade cabin door seals."* \- Aquagrifter, Dec 18, 2023 As always, I'm most surprised that rather than the BOD sending him in for a drug screen in response to this, people *actually believed him*. Simper Merritt: "The first videos of that are going to be epic lmao" Cuck Cook: "Will be epic"

The Tesla BoD is already fully captured by Elon, but they are also very well rewarded for it; >Tesla's board members received stock awards worth over $3 billion, with payouts exceeding those at rival US tech giants https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/tesla-board-made-3-billion-via-stock-awards-that-dwarfed-tech-peers-2025-12-15/

>Simper Merritt: "The first videos of that are going to be epic lmao" >Cuck Cook: "Will be epic" Kind of true that it is epic (when it just instantly sinks).

can't wait to see them appearing as the replacement for the astrovan (IIRC teslas are already used by spaceX for crewed flights). what's more dangerous, driving to the pad or going up to space?

A couple thoughts. First, a P/E of 30 is awfully high as a maturity target. 30 years break even on (hypothetical) dividends is an extremely poor investment. A P/E target of maybe 10-15 makes more sense. Second, this should include discounting for timeline. The analyst consensus (which is almost certainly very, very optimistic) sees this kind of earnings as many years off at best. And the stock price has hardly stabilized. It just keeps going up despite nothing ever really changing about the fundamentals. So I think an actual justification for the valuation would be at least $200B earnings at market maturity. I honestly don't think any of the price targets are being driven by serious fundamentals analysis except for completely batshit ones like what Cathie Woods pumps out. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of the valuation is based on nothing more than expectations for the stock's growth rather than the company's.

I could be wrong, who knows for sure, but this driverless Tesla "sighting" sure smells like another staged publicity stunt.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-musk-2674403471/ > Wiles referenced a Musk post on X defending Stalin, Mao, and Hitler, observing, "I think that's when he's microdosing," and stating, "he's an avowed ketamine [user]."

Lost more than 230K on my short position in TSLA, losing hope here. Feeling tempted to just exit now before it get even worse! My avg price is \~350. Do folks see any realistic hope that it'll ever come down to 400 anytime soon? Shouldn't have betted against this fucking cult!

Seems like there is some heavy tesla pumping action going on. Tons of articles praising them out of nowhere, unsupervised robotaxi stunt etc.

What a coward, won't even defend her own statements about someone she obviously hates (and hates for a good reason) simply because it'll conflict with the image of success and unity that Trump wants to project. It always amazes me how the party that proclaims itself to be all about morals and values never has any when push comes to shove.

Just don’t look at it and forget about it. Pray we return to some kind of sanity eventually

Depends on where you would get forced out. Can you sell longish dated out of the money puts as a bit of a hedge?

*TESLA SHARES GAIN 2.8% TO TOUCH AN ALL-TIME HIGH

Lol couldn’t be me

Yeah. The viper's nest can't stand each other but kowtow to the big moron. It seems ever more likely when he kicks the bucket there's going to be infighting the likes we haven't seen in modern politics. I do find it slightly amusing even amongst the worst people even they are uniformly taken aback by Musk's awfulness.

All popular models of Honda and Toyota are hybrid EV, not pure EV. Hybrid is the ideal car before the solid battery comes.

New ATH. 333x PE. Unbelievable.

Heavy funds have been on development of solid state batteries since 1950. I think it might come out in another 75 years. Or just level 5 FSD will never come out forever. Just because human has an idea, it could become a reality.

Betting against a meme stock is not for the faint of heart. *Especially* one where the CEO is specifically interested in pumping the price as its market cap is tied to his pay package and overall stock he's leveraged, and has consistently pumped the price year after year with lie after lie. Like betting against the house in Vegas, if the house was an unscrupulous drug addict that already rigged the game. Might pay off, but heck of odds against you.

there are minor trade-offs with my 80kWh Model Y but I've been done with ICE for 10 years now. The major BEV downside is simply long-distance travel is 80mph on the road but only ~60mph effective thanks to all the charging stops, but for the most part I don't mind the stops every two-three hours since it's good to get out and stretch etc. No smog checks, no stinky gasoline, no ICE maintenance is worth this very occasional downside (a couple times a year maybe). I mean, which is more time consuming, an oil change appointment or stopping 8 times for charging on a 1500 mile trip?

I'm all in very happy

If by stunt you mean the company that can make 2 million cars a year that can drive themselves once the software is ready is nearing software readiness? Lol

You could take the loss and then buy tesla and hold and make your money back when tesla 5x

Yeah and Trump likes that they all hate each other and argue constantly because he gets to be the decision maker at the end of the day. I think Musk failed to meet either of the two criteria necessary to be successful in Trump's inner circle. You're either competent like Vought and Miller or you're unquestionably loyal to Trump like Kash Patel or Bill Pulte. Musk was neither. DOGE was an abject failure that failed to deliver the kind of spending surplus Trump was hoping for to fund his pet projects and Musk actively undermined legislative efforts of Trump in the legislature multiple times and then publicly attacked him. I think the only reason Trump hasn't publicly gone all out after him is because it would fundamentally go against his deeply held belief that wealth = worth and was happy to play into the whole narrative that this is just how strong alpha men fight, as if either of them would be considered an alpha anywhere other than an elephant seal pack.

Are they nearing it though? I've been hearing it for a decade.

That PE will be much higher when Q4 results are in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predictions_for_autonomous_Tesla_vehicles_by_Elon_Musk

*TESLA’S SALES IN CALIFORNIA SET TO BE SUSPENDED, DMV SAYS

You got a source for this? Big if true.

[https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-16/tesla-s-sales-in-california-set-to-be-suspended-dmv-says](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-16/tesla-s-sales-in-california-set-to-be-suspended-dmv-says)

Night is darkest just before the dawn. Insanity is peaking. We’re close brother, hang in there.

This should push the stock up by another 5%. Sadly, Tesla will just slightly change the language around FSD, the judge won't want to push it any further ("I did my job") and everyone who bought FSD in the past will still have to sue Tesla to get their money back. And people will still crash their FSD cars on public roads while being fully responsible for any and all FSD mistakes. >Steve Gordon, director of the DMV, which brought the false advertising complaint against Tesla in 2022, said the agency will give Elon Musk’s automaker 90 days to clarify or remove any deceptive or confusing language about its Autopilot and FSD systems before implementing any suspension of the sales license. The DMV will stay the order to suspend Tesla’s manufacturing license so there is no interruption to the company’s factory operations in the state.

Elon really don't care because after SpaceX IPO, he will make money another way.

It is true. Just Google it. Happened less than one hour ago. Tomorrow TSLA will drop, finally. They have been up since Elon announced the SpaceX IPO and TSLA share holders will have priority to buy SpaceX shares.

"Hey Grok, how many driverless Tesla robotaxis have been spotted in Austin in the last week." >In the last week (December 9–16, 2025), public sightings of fully driverless Tesla robotaxis (operating with no occupants or safety monitors) in Austin, Texas, have been limited to a handful of instances, primarily clustered around December 14. >Multiple news reports and social media posts confirm **two distinct Tesla Model Y robotaxi vehicles were spotted** and filmed driving empty on public roads in Austin on December 14. These are described as the first publicly observed unsupervised tests, with Elon Musk and Tesla executives acknowledging the testing phase. >**No additional unique sightings** or videos from December 9–13 or December 15–16 appear in widespread reports or X posts, suggesting testing is in early validation with a small fleet (estimated 25–30 vehicles total in Austin). That's all the fuss is about?...A pair of tele-operated piles of panel gaps? Hummin gPaint it Black in my head...

Shares trade 24/5 - [https://robinhood.com/us/en/stocks/TSLA/](https://robinhood.com/us/en/stocks/TSLA/) \- it went down a bit but not much. It's only a 30-day suspension, and it doesn't happen for 90 days, and if I understand what I am reading, if Tesla can 'correct' the situation during that time, it won't happen at all.

SAN FRANCISCO, Dec 16 (Reuters) – A California regulator allowed Tesla to continue selling vehicles in the state for now, the latest move in a case in which the electric vehicle maker had been accused of falsely marketing and overstating self-driving capabilities. The Department of Motor Vehicles accepted a judge's proposals to suspend Telsa's manufacturing and sales licenses, but immediately put the suspensions on hold, DMV director Steve Gordon told reporters. The DMV said Judge Juliet Cox of the state Office of Administrative Hearings proposed the suspensions for 30 days.

Or negative!

With the CA DMV news, it is safe to say TSLA won't make new all time high tomorrow. It might drop $10 or $15.

Why? All news is good news for Tezzlur Robotaxis are ready. They don't need to sell cars anymore.

TSLA now higher after hours.

It makes sense, dreams usually happen at night. Going for an ATH due to the successful launch of Robotaxis

Robotaxis are here. They don't need to sell cars. Checkmate.

$10 or $15 are much closer to the real value.

People have been saying TSLA is an AI first company and leader. An it reaches ATH while there is a growing sceptism with AI projects. How is that possible?

Can they?

Hold the line, my friend. Hold the line.

The fanboys aren’t blaming Tesla’s misleading marketing on FSD for the ruling in California. Instead, they blame the state, believing the state is persecuting poor Elon for his political beliefs. Poor Elon. As the richest person in the world, you know he’s persecuted. It’s never his or Tesla’s fault.

Tesla is the world leader in AI but also AI drives a rounding error in their revenue. Its truly amazing.

Yeah there’s just that pesky regulatory red tape that stops these machines from killing people. And the fact that it’s SAE level 2.  But when market makers need to generate one last telegraphed push to unload their positions before the disaster Q4 results, they will resort to the scummiest behavior imaginable

You should be reading subreddits that don't agree with what you think. Right now you are in an echo chamber. No one here is going to give you the right answer.

You said there is "Tesla pumping action going on". Someone gave you a plausible reason for it and you immediately disregarded it even though it's a valid reason.

That's not how this works. Do you actually believe this is something that can happen?

> there is a growing sceptism with AI projects This is where you are mistaken. I don't know where you got this information, but the opposite is true.

Tesla defrauded the state of CA for millions of $$$ and the state of CA was happy to be defrauded! https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/21/the-tesla-battery-swap-is-the-hoax-of-the-year/

7 year Elonversary tomorrow: *"All* ***Boring Loops*** *will include continuously circulating* ***cars dedicated to pedestrians & cyclists****...Capable of traveling safely at over* ***150mph****. At that speed, it will feel like* ***teleporting*** *within a city." -* Tunnel Grifter, Dec 18, 2018 Hmmm...obviously, I need to brush up on my South African slang terms.

>the state is persecuting poor Elon Poor guy is gonna need knee surgery after climbing up onto so many crosses.

Stonk galloping out of the gate @ $490...$1.53 trillion. I asked ChatGPT "In list form, what percentage of Tesla's market cap is attributable to car sales, battery storage sales, solar equiopment sales, AI services, robotaxis, and Optimus robots?" * **Car Sales (Automotive)** * \~9–25% of valuation tied to traditional car sales by some analysts * **Battery Storage & Energy (including solar/storage)** * \~10% assigned to energy storage and generation in some valuation models. * **Solar Equipment** * Typically bundled with energy/storage and not valued separately in major models * **AI Services & Full Self-Driving (FSD) Software** * Combined with autonomous technology in many breakouts; some models attribute large chunks here but vary widely. * For example, Bank of America assigns \~17% to FSD and related tech in one breakdown. * **Robotaxi Business** * \~21–50% of market cap in some analyst models—Tesla’s autonomous taxi future is a major valuation driver in Wall Street projections. * **Optimus Robots (Humanoid Robotics)** * \~19–34% in some forward-looking analyst valuations tied to robotics aspirations. So there you have it: 65-81% of the value is utter vaporware. We live in strange times.

replacing the driver in an Uber with "FSD" is an understandable and quantifiable business model, similar in scale and impact as the automobile itself replacing horse-drawn vehicles. In a world of cheap working FSD . . . 10M taxis taking 30 fares/day @ a $3/trip profit = $300B/yr profit, more than Apple AND Google are making now, combined. https://companiesmarketcap.com/most-profitable-companies/ (this assumes of course competition doesn't drive the profits down to $1/trip)

Why are they assuming FSD will be cheap in the near future? Are they adding to their calculations cleaning, maintenance, energy costs (on board and in the cloud)? You need to keep training your models, even after you launch FSD. Costs are going to keep pointing up, not down, as more services require AI and computation. Computers don't get 50% cheaper every year as they used to be. My point was that how is Tesla not included in the AI bubble narrative? Even though it has 10x the PE of Google, Microsoft, and 7x Nvidia's.

I rolled all that into the $3 profit/fare FSD taxi service taking over Uber's business (and then some) is the current thesis. I bought more puts on Monday so I don't buy it, but it is mathematically possible this decade for FSD to "work" well enough to start replacing Uber.

I see the Ironman arguments. This thesis is bonkers. Even assuming FSD works flawless within the next 5 years AND Tesla is the only one cracking it. Uber bled money for one decade expanding into thousands of cities over the world. It has currently 6 millions drivers. How long would it take Tesla to achieve Uber's scale?

3 years?

I have serious doubts. And if they believe it will be possible, they would be investing more in Nvidia and Broadcom, because the computational demands will be insane. Imagine every autonomous vehicles will require the computational resources of a H200 at minimum. Because Robotaxis will be operating 24/7 or close than that. Are they also going to use Starlink for data transfer? The costs keep piling up.

Uber and Lyft today perform approximately 45 million trips and deliveries per day worldwide (according to Wikipedia). Where are these additional 255 million trips coming from? I've heard $1 per mile thrown out as the goal for top line rider cost and that was from Musk, so we already know it's bullshit.... But the average driver in US puts on 10k-12k miles per year.  I'm pretty sure the average driver doesn't spend 10k-12k per year on vehicle costs.  So I don't see this ushering in some mass dumping of personal vehicles.

Thanks, California judge and DMV. Finally you make TSLA share price down.

yeah, neither do I but that's the thesis. I have a paid-off Model Y; $40k cash acquisition cost is $200/mo opportunity cost for life, less any salvage value I get on resale. I'm paying $150/mo for insurance, actual driving is essentially free, $50/mo DMV reg. So $400/mo for the car to sit in my garage. I could cut this cost in half with the cybertaxi future. Will it happen? Stay tuned!

My HW4 Model Y on the current free FSD trial can handle door-to-door 150 miles "fine", more or less. I generally take over when it's too slow to act or doing bad planning at difficult intersections. Is this a blocker for HW4? Maybe, maybe not . . .

The problem is the illusion that generalization is around the corner because it already works 90% of the situations. It is possible that FSD will require "world models", the AI will have to understand intentions from humans (adults and children), animals and other autonomous vehicles. I believe each incremental 1% will be exponentially harder and we will have HAD as the norm for a long time.

can't disagree since it matches my actual experience with FSD in my own Tesla 2024-2025. Elon is gambling FSD's current architecture can get "good enough", including promising last July that it would be available (in his cybertaxis) to "half the US population" by the end of the year. I didn't buy that and have 5 put contracts expiring next year taking the under (the max I want to punt on that prop bet) It's a tricky question to have a strong opinion on one side or the other tho. Elon's story fell apart a year ago and I am personally hoping it does the same.

Any guess on the closing price of Friday. It is quadruple witching day. My guess is $450 and it will be locked in on Thursday.

"The Max Pain for TSLA options expiring on Dec 19, 2025 (2 days) (m) is $420.00." ^LOL

Sometimes I yearn for the old times of consecutive -5% days

Just proves that you don't have to be smart to benefit society to be wildly successful.

Which is just silly because even if you have full faith in their autonomous driving that still doesn't make them an AI company. They're using a very specific form of AI (mostly in the computer vision domain) for a very specific application (driving cars). Like nobody is calling Waymo an AI company... I know they're also heavily promoting their humanoid robots but those are incredibly vague, far flung and uncompetitive.

Now you're just making up numbers.

just explaining why TSLA's market cap has two or three more zeroes than its current business supports.

[Tesla’s Dangerous Doors](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2025-12-17/tesla-s-dangerous-doors-video)

they *should* have to do a bona-fide recall to fix the really ridiculous rear-door interior emergency release on 3s and Ys. NHTSA or whoever was really asleep to allow that.

Early model years of TMY have no rear emergency release at all. Someone posted different TMY manuals and early ones specifically say no manual release. But that is not the only problem, since front passangers get stuck as well. It looks like the mechanism deforms too easily and there is no way to open the door.

There’s like 80 robotaxis lmao

Three year Elonversary: "Should I step down as head of Twitter? **I will abide by the results** of this poll." Poll Results: 57.5% yes. Outcome: After the requisite claims that the poll was rigged, Musk reluctantly agreed to step down as CEO around 6 months later. For those unaware, he spent 2 years merely in a "product and technical" role. Ignore the fact that he is the one who cosplays as a WWII Era bomber pilot and tells a NYT reporter that advertisers can Go Fuck Themselves...he wasn't at the helm from June 2023 to July 2025. Rather, its this woman, Linda Yaccarino, seen here doing an interview with her clothes inside out: [https://www.vox.com/technology/2023/9/28/23893736/twitter-ceo-code-linda-yaccarino-elon-musk-interview](https://www.vox.com/technology/2023/9/28/23893736/twitter-ceo-code-linda-yaccarino-elon-musk-interview) I wonder how she spent her time there since...well...Technoking never really "stepped down"

"Hey Grok, does Tesla plan to remove the term Autopilot from its marketing, so it can continue to sell cars in California?" Pat of the reply: >The DMV has given Tesla 60 days **(**until mid-February 2026) to either: >Stop using the term "Autopilot" for these non-autonomous features in its marketing and materials, or >**Upgrade the software** to make vehicles **truly autonomous** (which is **not currently possible).** Wait, what do you mean when you say it is not currently possible for Tesla to upgrade its software and make veghicles truly autonomous? >While Tesla is pushing hard and getting closer (especially in controlled testing), a simple **software upgrade can't** yet turn your everyday Tesla into a **truly autonomous** (no-supervision-needed) vehicle today. But hasn't Elon Musk repeatedly made the claim that one day Tesla would "wake up the fleet" with a software update to turn it autonomous? >Yes Considering Musk and Tesla were charging customers thousands of dollars for this promised feature, was is fraud to make the "wake up the fleet" claim, knowing it would never happen? >In truth-seeking terms: This smells like overpromising in a high-stakes industry, not outright Ponzi-level fraud.

That reminds me, who is CEO of Xitter now? Mechahitler?

Want to guess the year of this Elonversary? [https://www.autoblog.com/news/san-jose-mercury-news-interviews-teslas-elon-musk](https://www.autoblog.com/news/san-jose-mercury-news-interviews-teslas-elon-musk) >The San Jose Mercury News did an interview last week with Tesla Motors chairman Elon Musk. By 2010 he wants to have a range of three models including one costing only $30,000 that he expects to eventually reach a sales volume of 100,000 annually. >!It's from Dec 18, 2006!<

I mean 30 k in back then dollars is probably like 100 k in todays dollars, right? /s

All of the Mag 7 stocks have forward P/E ratios between 22 and 33, except for one. You know which one. But do you know how many orders of magnitude higher it is? >!It's 208!< All of the Mag 7 stocks have PEG ratios between 0.65 and 2.75, except for one. You know which one. But do you know how many orders of magnitude higher it is? >!It's 9.33!<

There isn't much logic in TSLA

Lmao

Solution: Elon renames it "Future Autopilot". It will be autopilot in the future.

"Autopilot Supervised"

Which is going to happen first? 1. Elon Musk declares that Tesla is now a DRAM company. Adam Jonas says this will increase the value of Tesla by $500B. 2. Elon Musk creates a new startup 'The Storing Company' to manufacture DRAM in the US. It will be the best company because it uses AI and electricity in production. Gary Black says this will increase the value of TSLA by $500B. 3. Tesla releases a video of Optimus putting a cartridge into an 8-track player and then claims this shows that Optimus will reduce the price of DRAM by 95%.

Autopilot -> Auto Pirate, outlaw of the road, and FSD -> Full Serf Driving, in that the person behind the wheel is an indentured crash test dummy, paying for the privilege of beta testing the software.

Yes

I’ve been saying this for a while. It is 8-10 times more expensive than Google. Great investment proposition

It's not strange times, you've just been convinced by a bunch of basement dwellers on reddit that companies should be valued on the present and not the future. Ask ChatGPT to explain book value vs investor value to you and go from there.

> and not the future You do understand that TSLA will never achieve true SAE Level 5 "Self Driving", don't you?

[deleted]

Ok then. My company *might* solve cold fusion and develop an app that finally finds the G spot. You can't know for sure I'm just bullshitting you, so what do you say - worth half a billion...because ChatGPT?

[deleted]

>you'd need to have the talent and charisma to convince You're getting warmer. **CON**vince

11 Year Elonversary, one of the foundational grifts of TSLA: *"****Pack swap now operating*** *in limited beta mode for SF to LA route. Can swap battery faster than visiting a gas station. Tesla blog out soon.*" - Swapping Swindler, Dec 18, 2014 At the time, Tesla's ZEV credits per car increased by 75% (from 4 to 7) overnight, based on the illusion of battery swaps - netting TSLA approximately $300 million. Per Grok, "approximately 10" swaps ever occurred. It was all just a grift.

This is the scam that turned Ed N into a skeptic! Iirc, he was extra-impressed that the ad-hoc supercharger / swap station / CA "green" incentive grift was running off stinky diesel generators. Shades of Memphis. Er, smells of Memphis.

Class action of US taxpayers to get the money back?

Weird stuff happening today. All tech stocks up A LOT on the open but tesla is not. Usually they move together. I actually suspected there would be a huge pump because there is huge amount of calls for 500$ and 490$. There was also tons of pump posts on X. I wonder what happened. It still may happen later in the day but still pretty atypical behavior for this stock.

My guess it is related to this https://www.marketwatch.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-to-be-hit-by-nike-but-s-p-500-and-nasdaq-seen-extending-gains/card/friday-marks-7-1-trillion-triple-witching-options-expiration-the-largest-ever-6RzkfzLc1E7ICUWQTJ7c

Headline: **Tesla Stock Rally Could Be Just Starting as Wedbush Analyst Predicts 30-City Robotaxi Blitz by 2026.** *Dan Ives is doubling down on his thesis that Tesla is more than just an automaker, viewing it as a premier* [*AI*](https://www.tipranks.com/compare-stocks/artificial-intelligence) *play. In his latest 2026 predictions, Ives asserts that Tesla will scale its Robotaxi network aggressively, moving from small-scale testing in Austin to* ***fully operational fleets in over 30 U.S. cities.*** The pump is strong with this one. I suppose there's a 0.0000000000000420% chance Musk waves a magic wand and put the "robo" in robotaxi - but even if that were to happen, where are the 30 cities and what states are they in...that would not have extensive validation and permitting processes, and perhaps even require legislation before allowing these "fleets" of robotaxis? Prediction: At the end of 2026, TSLA will have zero "fully operational fleets" of real robotaxis.

We do need a Nike to take this sucker down

Nah, Musk has a special talent of bilking people out of other people's money. TSLA sells ZEV credits to other automakers, who in turn pass this cost along to customers who buy their cars. The tail on this is too long, and the state of California has no incentive to highlight the fact TSLA gamed their system, so they have and will do nothing....and its not really a federal thing.

His "base case" is a valuation of $2tn for Tesla by the end of 2026. This is comprised of: \-AI & Autonomous driving: $1tn he says \-Core Auto: he doesn't put a valuation on it, but Tesla is in a multi-year decline with roughly industry-average gross margins (bye bye, Wright's Law). I think the best you can say is it's worth \~$100bn, though unbiased parties might say $50-$75bn is probably more appropriate. \-That leaves some $900bn unaccounted for in his base case - solar, energy, HVAC, other magic beans? Yeah, I can see why he's a security fraudster.

Remember all of this magical value is because it maybe possibly could be an autonomous Uber. Is that really worth a Trillion+?

I fail to see how even in a perfect scenario that autonomous ride hailing can be worth anything near a trillion. Add in the brand perception decline... It will be a small market of users if it ever is technically possible.

[https://www.tesla.com/safety](https://www.tesla.com/safety) lol

It's not. Google is looking for outside investment into waymo and a lot of people took it as lack of confidence. The truth is they just know there is not that much money in it so they may get someone else to pay for the development while the hype is on.

Tomorrow is a very special 10 year Elonversary. This is the kind of stuff that makes this once in a generation mind worth $55 billion: *"I think we have all the pieces, and it’s just about refining those pieces, putting them in place, and making sure they work across a huge number of environments—and then we’re done...It’s a* ***much easier problem than people think it is.*** *But it’s not like George Hotz, a one-guy-and-three-months problem. You know, it’s more like, thousands of people for* ***two years****.”* \- *Griftoking, Dec 20, 2015 when asked about self driving cars.* *"We’re going to end up with complete autonomy\*, and I think we will have* ***complete autonomy*** *in approximately* ***two years****."* \- Technogrifter, Dec 20, 2015 Just yesterday on this very board, a Branch Elonian Tesplained to me that *none of us* can know for sure whether or not TSLA will start selling gazillions of robo-rides, so *of course* TSLA is worth a $bazillion. So I guess we just wait...although I do wonder what the cut off is? TSLA and Musk have lied about this for a full decade now, so what will it take? Perhaps two decades of lying about it will make them lose hope in Tewchnoking? Nah. They'll just vote to shovel more money his way.

We are so close to 2026, so what are your predictions for total 2025 Tesla deliveries? I'm going for 1,65M (vs 1,79 in 2024).

I think they'll be lucky to end up with 1.65M in 2025...and there being no new models comig out in 2026, I expect it to keep dropping. My bold prediction: 1.55M

The fake promises of "next year" will stop being as effective in 1-2 years when Waymo covers the majority of urban America and does 3M rides a week (now already over 0.5M/week, 20M in total), while Tesla still has zero driverless taxi available to the public. The Elon true-believer arguments against Waymo are "it won't scale" and "the car costs $150k", which won't hit as hard when Waymo has \*already\* scaled and is using a $40k Zeekr (sensors included).

I think they'll probably clear 1.6M and 400k for the quarter. Q4 is traditionally a strong quarter and they are pushing lower cost models to help offset some subsidy losses and lack of competitiveness in some market as well as the long body Y in China. That wont' sustain them next year but it'll probably give enough of a bump to help the avoid the headline of deliveries declining 20% YoY. Financials will be ugly though and there's going to be very little to help them out of the declining reg credits, consumer tax credits and general brand destruction Musk has caused. They've been lowering margins to avoid inventory build for a while but I don't think they have much room left there in the US or Europe really and sales in China haven't grown nearly enough to compensate. I'm sure Musk will get on the CC and promise another return to sales growth due to FSD being a must have feature and robotaxi but they're going to have to start reducing shifts or idling lines pretty soon. I wouldn't be surprised if the X and S are cancelled either as they've been on life support for a while and the unit volumes just aren't there justify much future investment.

Tomorrow is a 10 year Elonversary: *"If any given year you find your predictions are going further out or coming closer in, that actually one way to think of acceleration because otherwise what’s the quantitative measure of AI?”* \- Technobabble, Dec 21, 2015 And he hit the nail on the head with this one, 8 years ago tomorrow: *"Idiots can be very dangerous when they seem smart, but aren’t"*

I'm unable to post a new thread, so I'm just going to post here: **Tesla's robotaxi service in Austin barely exists at all.** It has been reported many times that Tesla robotaxi fleet in Austin comprises 31 cars (Example source: [Tesla Robotaxi tracker](https://www.teslarobotaxitracker.com/)). However, that is only the number of unique MYs that have been part of the fleet at any point in the past 6 months, not the number of cars available for rides at any single time. The total number of cars concurrently available is **between 3 and 8**, depending on time of day. As a result the service is almost always unavailable and has very high waiting times when available (**33% total availability**, and most of that is at night). During the day the service has **less than 20% availability**, meaning that **if you are on the whitelist and you open the app during the day, over 80% of the time you cannot book a ride**. ***Quick stats:*** * 3 to 8 concurrently operating cars * Made available to about 2,000 to 5,000 whitelisted customers * \~250 trips per day * 33% availability (unusable 67% of the time, over 80% of the time during daytime) * 18 min average wait time when available * \~2,500 miles per day * \~250,000 miles in total since start of service in June * \~50 full-time employees needed to run the service (across multiple shifts) * 1 human supervisor per car, in the car, in addition to remote supervision * 9 crashes so far **This "robotaxi service" barely exists at all. You could serve more people at a much lower cost with a dozen of human drivers driving Toyota Corollas.**

My mother just taken delivery of a MY26 Cadillac Optiq earlier this week. She isn't that tech savvy so I setup most of the car for her and tried most of the features. It is one of the first GM vehicles to have NACS, so Tesla Supercharger access is natively available. The Caddy doesn't fast charge all that well (150kW max) but it does 303mi range which Edmunds easily can beat around 339mi real world (more than Model Y LR AWD real world 327mi). Super cruise is pretty damn amazing, especially with automatic lane changing features and I dig the fact it has attention monitoring so you can't abuse it like Tesla FSD. The Optiq 700E4 models have 440hp, beats the Model Y LR AWD only has 384hp. The interior build quality, 19 speaker AKG sound system is excellent. Neither car has CarPlay and Android Auto but honestly while I'm on the fence it wasn't a deal breaker for my mother. My own Audi Q4 e-tron is definitely sportier if not as fast as the Caddy Optiq. But as a luxury cruiser it is hard to fault, and range and power advantage is definitely noticeable. Lastly a similar spec Model Y LR AWD in Canada goes for around ~$81,000 CAD as equipped with FSD. Her Optiq was OTD $70,500 CAD with Super cruise Std.

Yep. We’ve tried to shout this from the rooftops and unfortunately the market doesn’t care

Autonomy is no longer a particularly groundbreaking technology like it was five years ago. There are now **seven different companies that have done over 1,000,000 trips in a fully driverless setting** (that is to say, with no one in the car expected to monitor or intervene, just passengers in the back seat, which is the definition of L4). In the US, Waymo, Zoox, and Cruise have crossed this milestone. In China, Apollo, WeRide, PonyAI, and AutoX have crossed this milestone. Collectively they have done **over 45M fully driverless trips**. Waymo alone has done 20M fully driverless trips. It's not 2020 anymore. The future is now. Now let's check in on our favorite automaker, err, I meant AI leader. Tesla has done 0 fully driverless trips so far (besides very limited internal testing, such as the staged 5-second clip from last week). They are not close to the starting line, either, since their rate of critical intervention needs to improve by at least 50x before they can start removing safety drivers (as of FSD v14).

Even if it existed in real form, who would take one of these besides a super stan, unless it was notably below market rate?

9 crashes is new to me, do you have a source for that?

The source is the NHTSA reporting data: [https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-order-crash-reporting](https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/standing-general-order-crash-reporting) It isn't very reliable since it is self-reported by Tesla with essentially no oversight. The actual number of incidents is likely much higher.

the "real world" in my 2023 2170 Model Y AWD is more like 220 miles, that's what I got today on a long nonstop freeway drive down to LA, 100% -> 10%. as for HP, the AWD is perfectly fine and I wouldn't want any more. The tablet has my Audible, iTunes, and Podcasts in the apps and that's good enough for me. Interior is of course meh. Not horrible, not premium. "Meh plus" I guess. The free FSD trial I have this month is going well on HW4; I really like it and will probably pull the trigger on it next year, I just hate losing the $33/mo opportunity cost of cashing out some investments, but it's worth $1/day certainly (but not if I only have it for 1-2 years of course, since that $1/day opportunity cost is for the rest of my life LOL). Cost-wise, I got lucky in late 2023 since Elon still had to pretend he was leading a growing car company, so he gave me $6000 off list on my Model Y to get it off the lot in FY23. I also got $10,500 in gov't cash so it was $40K USD OTD. No complaints here!

yeah, Elon's certainly doing deadline-driven development, announcing internal stretch goals as public actual goals to light a fire under his teams. Austin being such a minimal-effort thing in June was what mainly got me interested in getting some OTM March puts in mid-July (kinda RIP on them alas). Then in the Q2 earnings call he fucking promised "half the population" by the end of the year! I took the under on that, and again RIP those puts, though I have until April at least. I was down in West LA today (courtesy the FSD free trial this month + a mystery use-it-or-lose-it $80 credit EVgo gave me) and saw 5 Waymos, though 3 were in platoon driving west, likely relocating from their Santa Monica lair to get ready for the night's business.

ceteris paribus, I think robot >> person driving for most customers. plus with true FSD the rental car business model is going to get weird. On-demand car -- it picks you up where you want and drops you off where you want! Aside from the $1/mile cybertaxi jazz, reserving a robotaxi for a long trip might get pretty popular. I don't see $2T of value here, but something interesting.

> ceteris paribus, I think robot >> person driving for most customers. When you have to diligently monitor the system and be ready to take over at any time on a split second basis? No thanks. People think other car makers don't have vision-only automation nearly as advanced as Tesla's because they don't have the technical capability. In reality the utility isn't worth the expense for enough customers.

"Hey Grok, list the 5 most important promises/predictions/goals for or about Tesla that Elon Musk has made that relate to autonomous driving, that turned out to be true and delivered on time. Limit it to a list format without making excuses for Musk's dishonesty." >**Autopilot Launch (2015)** >**Enhanced Autopilot Introduction (2016)** >**Navigate on Autopilot (2018-2019)** >**Smart Summon (2019** >**FSD Beta Wide Release in North America (2022)** "Grok, none of those are truly autonmous. Limit responses to actual predictions or promises about true autonomous driving." >There are **no documented instances of Elon Musk's promises** or predictions specifically about **true** autonomous driving (Level 4 or 5, unsupervised, no human intervention required, such as full robotaxi fleets or cross-country driverless trips) for Tesla that were both made with a clear timeline and delivered on that timeline.

>Elon's certainly doing deadline-driven development, announcing internal stretch goals as public actual goals to light a fire under his teams. When he's saying things that have zero chance of happening and that Tesla is not even *planning* to do, like "*50% US coverage with robotaxis by the end of the year*" (announced 6 month ago), he's just lying to pump the stock. Elon doesn't overpromise, he lies. The difference is that he's fully aware what he's saying is false. He's saying it anyway because he thinks it's in his interest for other people to believe it.

By the end of 2026, I estimate we'll be at 200M fully driverless trips in total (with Waymo accounting for half of that). Tesla will still be at 0, because they simply don't have the ability to remove safety drivers without constantly causing accidents. Not a matter of opinion, just looking at trendlines.

there's that possibility, too, yes

"**We will be launching the autonomous ride-hailing across most of the country.** *I think* **we will *probably* have autonomous ride-hailing in *probably* half the population of the US by the end of the year**. *That's at least our goal*, *subject to regulatory approvals*. *I think* **we will *technically* be able to do it.** *Assuming we have regulatory approvals*, **it's *probably* 'addressing' half the population of the US by the end of the year**. We are being very cautious. We do not want to take any chances, so we are going to go cautiously. But **the service areas and the number of vehicles in operation will increase at a hyper-exponential rate**." -- July 23, 2025

Here's a mystery I struggle to understand, maybe some of you can help me out. So, through its firebrand CEO Elon Musk, the Tesla brand has become closely associated with white supremacy, the Great Replacement theory, eugenics, and "remigration" advocacy (i.e. ethnic cleansing). If you don't know what I mean, you can go to x dot com slash elonmusk, scroll down, and Elon will tell you in his own words. Yet, it seems to me that Tesla is very popular among nonwhites, and is maybe even *primarily* popular among nonwhites. For instance it is very popular in Turkey, a Muslim country whose inhabitants Elon would regard as subhuman and as a threat to Western civilization (notice that Elon actively supports the AfD party in Germany which has hatred of Turkish immigrants as one of its core values). Tesla is also very popular in South Korea, China, the UAE, Taiwan, Thailand... In the US, every time I see a Tesla the driver is some tech guy from an Indian or East Asian background. And it's not just Tesla customers. Tesla and xAI engineers are mostly Indian and Chinese immigrants on H1B visas. And most Tesla influencers on X are from an Indian or Middle Eastern background, with names like Omar or Farzad. Can someone explain to me what is going here? Are these people not aware of Elon's views? Or do they believe it somehow doesn't apply to them because they're special (lol)? Or do they just not care?

It's a bunch of different things overall. First and foremost I think a lot of people still just aren't aware of it all and don't realize how he's been on this path for years at this point. A fair part of the population simply wants to believe something and has a pretty heavy confirmation bias to explain inconvenient things away essentially. I mean the guy did multiple nazi salutes on stage at a political event and plenty of people were happy to turn around and accept it has being 'awkward' and having self diagnosed autism as if either were an acceptable excuse. For his employees I think people overestimate how much they actually care it. They want to get paid and aren't looking to put their livelihood and possibly their citizenship on the line to call him out on the issue. I'dj also point out that despite all his crying about how the mainstream media is out to get him, his constant spew of white nationalist rhetoric, eugenics commentary and 19th century "white man's burden" style rhetoric just doesn't get reported on often at all unless he really says something so overtly outrageous that someone else makes a stink about it. Even then Netanyahu was happy to sell out and let Musk do what was essentially an apology tour in Israel. Obviously the Trump administration is fully on board with the white nationalist and anti-immigrant rhetoric too. I'm honestly not really sure when it comes to China how much access they even have to Musk's tweets given the whole Great Firewall and general media control over there either. There's just a ton of apathy, indifference or outright agreement with the nonsense he's spewing. A lot of people still believe it'll never impact them directly and try to play it off as some universal constant in modern society. Sure Elon Musk is a rabid racist, but Amazon employees pee in bottles to make their time quotas and Foxconn had to install those nets at their factories to keep people from committing suicide, Henry Ford was Nazi sympathizer too, etc. So in their mind it's not worth doing anything because it's too difficult or impossible to achieve an absolute moral or ethical high ground. It's kind of shocking but a lot of the US population is completely willing to roll over if they're given any kind of excuse to do nothing or not worry about something. I mean as bad as Musk is look at what's happening with the DOJ and Epstein files or the general centralization of power behind the President. I live outside of D.C and I'll tell you it's shocking how many people think that Trump would never walk the military or his ICE goons on congress even after he already did it with his supporters once before. Denial, apathy and voluntary ignorance are at all times high across the board right now in general.

I think to pay Elon Musk $55 billion using stock options. TSLA will have 10% dilution in the coming week. Stock market is very efficient. The 10% dilution could happen just in three to five days.

Yeah right because the TSLA share price only reflects an accurate estimation of future earnings and therefore any dilution will be efficiently reflected in the share price... lmao

That was a thoughtful answer, thanks. So basically many people don't know (not because it's a secret but because average people are very low-information, even in tech), and those who know don't care (because Elon's views are now mainstream and you gotta go with the times or something like that). Still, among those who are aware of Elon's views, buying a Tesla or deciding to join Tesla or xAI represents an incredible lack of self-respect.