Tesla doesn't have one yet.
My favorite thing is when the Elon Stans show up and point out that that one car delivered itself THEREFORE AUTONOMOUS
Welp. . . There goes Robotaxi making $30K a year. . . I feel like a stupid pile of shit when I think how much I worshipped Elon Musk in 2018-2021 . . I honestly thought Starship was going to Mars last year, I though Hyperloop would become the new railroad, I even believed Starship would take people from Shanghai to NYC in 30 minutes within a couple months. Luckily Elon's constant double down on the non-sense and contrasting with reality helped me wake up. So while I can't believe I could have been the dumb pile of shit 5 years ago, you go look at other Tesla reddit pages. . . and I realize . . . There are a lot of highly educated people who are even stupider than me!
This is exciting news in general, but I won’t be truly impressed until a company like Waymo perfects fully autonomous vehicles in rain-soaked Seattle.
„ I feel like a stupid pile of shit when I think how much I worshipped Elon Musk in 2018-2021“ Welcome brother You sound like me
yeah I guess. He's a con man and quite good at it. But I always sussed him out as being less than truthful.
They are so #1 it‘s not even close
It goes way back for me. I flew out to test drive the ORIGNAL roadster based on the Lotus body and met the first Tesla salesman in the hotel lobby where he tossed me the keys and we took it out for a spin. I was looking into new cars at the time trying to decide what to buy. It was between a 911, and a Tesla roadster. Yes, the acceleration onto the expressway was nuts. fun and exciting. But everything else felt cheap and artificial. taped and stuck together cheaply. even back then. And back then he wanted $100k in 2008 dollars. I passed. I don't have that 911 anymore. I sold it for a good value, but I had uncounted miles of fun and never looked back.
Just forget about this guy. His company isn’t even in the race.
He’s always been great at marketing in the past. But now, he’s just ridiculous with what he says. And is just a fraud and a Conman.
Waymo in the lead. Already live with robotaxi service. I see them all the time on the road driving. Now Zoox is also already doing robotaxi too. there's robotaxis live on the road and all the hype bots still try to pump tesla's robotaxi relevant. it's not. it's getting left behind in the dust do to Elon's insistence on "solving" visual only driving like a fool.
Try any metro area that gets snow and black ice like Chicago or the Twin Cities.
I'm close enough to Orlando to drive over when this goes live.
In Phoenix, we recently had a monsoon, so Waymo must have told the vehicles to stop accepting rides, and pull over, and they all ended up in a gully basically flooded.
**"five new cities:** Miami, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Orlando. Operations start today in Miami, and will begin in the remaining four cities over the coming weeks, ahead of opening our doors to riders next year."
Good for you.
None of us know what goes on at Tesla or SpaceX or any of his other companies. In 2018, you have to remember, he said he would bring the Model S, Model X, and Model 3 to market at good gross margins, and every single 'expert' said he was full of shit. Yet that's exactly what happened. He had high credibility and earned it. He also wasn't promising things he couldn't deliver on. Maybe they were stretch goals, but they were at least POSSIBLE. There was no way to know that over the next few years, he'd issue a ton more predictions (Roadster, Cybertruck, Semi, Hyperloop, Neuralink, FSD/Robotaxi fleets, 4680 mass battery production, etc...) which would all basically fail or never even exist. There was no way to know that a guy who made realistic but optimistic predictions based on insider knowledge would turn into someone who made unrealistic predictions based on pure fantasy in the span of a few years. The signs were not at all clear because we don't have access to that inside information.
Famously Dry Miami: 67" of rain a year Famously Wet Seattle: 37" of rain a year.
Knowing there’s precious little political will to fund *any* kind of rail transit (because even a basic light rail system is already expensive and complicated as hell to build), and knowing we *can* already build trains that go pretty fucking fast and *don’t* need the atmosphere evacuated around them, there’s no way a “hyperloop” will ever be built except as an amusement park ride. Him hyping Hyperloop was one of the things that made me realize he’s full of shit.
Try a city that isn't some ridiculous grid, like anywhere in Europe. That's when it will be impressive.
Ketamine most likely caused the change
Amen! When *I* can't see the road and am guessing, Waymo is going to be two states over and upside down, with a rubber duck on top of it.
I think most likely he saw that their market value was going up vertically and he needed to make bigger and bigger predictions or else the stock price would drop. Then, things just got out of hand. Even in 2016, he was promising full self driving around the corner. Looking at it another way, in 2025, we have massive AI compute clusters, massively improved data collection and storage, massively faster networking, and far more employees working on Robotaxis than in 2016 - and he can't even come close to delivering a working Robotaxi. Imagine with 2016 resources how the hell he was supposed to deliver on that promise if he can't even do it today. There is no way that with all his inside information, that this was not obvious even in 2016. It was just a lie. So even in 2016, he was lying.
> There was no way to know that a guy who made realistic but optimistic predictions based on insider knowledge would turn into someone who made unrealistic predictions based on pure fantasy in the span of a few years. Eh, the cave fiasco was in June 2018 as was the Rogan pot thing, and a lot of people had already seen he was full of shit well before then. He'd been making BS comments about autonomous driving for years by that points.
Just means you have the ability to update your conclusions as facts change or emerge. Trust me it’s a good thing and far too rare these days. Don’t feel bad. But yeah I’m in the same boat as far as being fooled by Elon.
Well my point was that you couldn't really be certain because up to that point he did have a pretty solid track record. Maybe he was late, but things generally came true like he said they would. And even the things that didn't come true, not enough time had passed to really solidly say it was a failure (yet). But since 2018 +/- a couple years, I don't think a single prediction he made came true, so something definitely changed around that time. Like at this point, the Semi is laughably behind schedule, the Cybertruck is barely selling 20k units a year at prices double what they were originally supposed to be, Robotaxis still aren't even close to fully rolling out almost 10 years after promised, Tesla Dojo was scrapped, the 4680 is just a really expensive underperforming cell, etc...
Hey we all remember that [talk Musk gave in 2016](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQOeU6_mTE0), with his talk for colonizing Mars. Drinking the koolaid back then it really felt amazing watching that speech. It felt like we were on the brink of a new future. I got messages from a few family members about how its 'finally happening', the space faring future of mankind was finally here. Fast forward to 2025 and all we have learned is that some billionaires are snakes oil salesmen and liars. And Musk is one of them.
Duh! *SurprisedPicachuFace*
On top of that he has the audacity to say he’s doing a good job and expecting a $1T salary compensation plan over the next 10 years. That’s crazy there’s not way he stays focussed on Tesla for the next 10 years.. he’ll be meddling in something else left field like Pakistan politics. Which will take his focus away again!
Waymo is the only one going slow enough I might try it out
2015 Musk: He's Tony Stark! 2025 Musk: He's Phony Stark!
Watching great CEOs I’ve realized sometimes you need to be completely delusionally insane to achieve certain things. You need to be insane enough to think up an insane idea. Then insane enough to believe you can do it and then align yourself and an entire organization of people in that direction to make it happen. That said Machiavellian people will always fail most of their ideas, that’s expected. It’s the one they succeed on that changes the world. Just keep that in mind when observing certain types of CEOs. Elon Musk Alex Karp Both fit this to me. To be a game changing CEO that comes from the trenches of the stock market to a mega cap company, you gotta be kinda insane. That said, that doesn’t mean Elon Musk won’t achieve great things in the future, it just means he’ll fail most of his ideas. Can anyone name another?
>In 2018...He also wasn't promising things he couldn't deliver on In 2018, he claimed: " Will include modded but fully road legal **autonomous transport cars** & ground to tunnel car elevators" "Your Tesla will soon be able to go from your garage at home to parking at work with **no driver input at all**" "SpaceX is starting a programme to take CO2 out of the atmosphere and turn it into rocket fuel. Please join if interested...will be **important for Mars**" "SpaceX is already developing high efficiency CO2 capture with H2O to form liquid CH4 (methane) & O2. **Critical for** propellant production at **Mars Base Alpha"** "**All Boring Loops** will include continuously circulating **cars dedicated to pedestrians & cyclists.**..Capable of traveling safely at **over 150mph**. At that speed, it will feel like teleporting within a city" "I think probably by end **of next year \[end of 2019\] self-driving will encompass essentially all modes of driving** and be at least 100% to 200% safer than a person." "Probably technically be able to **self deliver Teslas to customers doors in about a year** then its up to the regulators" "Planning to **send Dragon to Mars as soon as 2018**. Red Dragons will inform overall Mars architecture, details to come" "But we are **confident that this (solar roof)** is going to be something that is – it either actually **makes you money** or is close to breakeven for most of the country, which I think is really profound" "And then hopefully, by **early next year**, we will be in production with the **Spanish style and the French slate** versions." "**Hardware 2** cars have all the hardware necessary for **full autonomy**." "our goal remains being able to **drive autonomously from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York** without touching a control at any point along the way" "I already talked about the **semi,** so I mean timing wise I am guessing that we will probably reach **scale production on the semi in about 2 years**, maybe 18 months, but probably about 2 years" "Basically first half of **2020** for production of Model Y, and something similar for **semi and Roadster**" "**SpaceX option packag**e for new Tesla Roadster will include \~10 small rocket thrusters arranged seamlessly around car. These rocket engines dramatically improve acceleration, top speed, braking & cornering. Maybe they will even **allow a Tesla to fly**" "Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. **Funding secured**." ""First **Boring Brick store opening in \~2 months**\*. Only 10 cents a brick! Rated for California seismic loads." "Exciting to see some **Tesla collision repair** operations already completing within 24 hrs. Aiming for same day soon, then **under an hour**." ""First operational, **high-speed tunnel still set for Chicago**, pending regulatory approvals." I'm bumping up against Reddit space limitations...but you get the idea. And I could go back further in time of course - to completely faked Paint it Black self driving demos and completey faked solar tiles. He's always been the Grifter.
Nah. Musk is just a con man.
Reality is much more complex than “thing I don’t like is bad.”
Words fail to describe how much I hate Musk rats who "think" that the loudmouth has any success because "he said so"
"Hey Grok, has Elon Musk ever made a truthful forward looking statement about Tesla cars achieving SAE Level 5 self driving, flying roadsters, intercontinental rocket travel, Mars Colonization, high speed tunnel networks, the veracity of Reuters reporting on the $25k Tesla, the timeline of the Tesla Semi, the 7 cent per kWh megacharger network for the semi, or the sexual predilections of cave explorers?" >Ah, the classic Elon Musk prediction audit—always a fun exercise in optimism vs. reality. I've dug into the record (using reliable sources like Reuters, WIRED, Wikipedia timelines, and more), and the short answer is: **No, he hasn't made a truthful forward-looking statement** on any of these specific topics that panned out as promised. His track record here is more "aspirational roadmap" than "delivered prophecy," with timelines slipping like a Cybertruck on ice. "Hey Grok, Were the "Paint it Black" self driving demo and slate/terra cotta solar tile demonstrations faked?" >**Yes, both the 2016 "Paint it Black" self-driving demo and the slate/terra cotta solar tile demonstrations were faked** or staged in ways that misled viewers about their functionality and readiness. > Its really not that complicated - the man lies like a dog straight to investors' faces...over and over again. In a sane world he would be prosecuted for fraud for any one of his "pufferies".
Is it intentional lying or is he delusionally confident? I make the case for the latter.
Turned out we are at the brink of new future. Just instead of it being bright it wears brown shirt
NYC will be the real test
To be fair most/some of the lies were believable but international rocket travel was always extremely dumb.
Well when you are a CEO making financial and product statements that move the stock....and those products are 10 years late, and you continue to say "any day now".... That's intentional lying and would be illegal if the SEC had teeth
250,000 Waymo rides per week alone and they are significantly expanding on that. Tesla doing about 1000, mostly with Fanbois and employees and a safety driver in the front.
Even Nashville (50”) gets far more rain than Seattle
This means tesla stock going up baby!
> Well my point was that you couldn't really be certain because up to that point he did have a pretty solid track record. Not really. Everything before Tesla was him just being along for the ride and a lighter version of his bullshit. You could argue Tesla made him creditable, but Tesla only sold 250k cars in 2018, so it wasn't like he was some business genius even from that. >Maybe he was late, but things generally came true like he said they would. No they didn't. Quit with the revisionism. He still hasn't delivered full autonomy. He's even quit slinging bullshit about going to Mars. >even the things that didn't come true, not enough time had passed to really solidly say it was a failure (yet). We can absolutely say something is a failure, if he can't make the dates he promises - especially when he makes and misses several dates, over years, about the same things. >But since 2018 +/- a couple years, I don't think a single prediction he made came true, so something definitely changed around that time. All that changes at that point was that people started listening. Before then(ish), he was just some wank pushing EVs, but by 2018 they were selling hundreds of thousands of cars a year, and people began to believe.
That was the one that made me look twice at SpeceX. By that time I already knew Musk was full of shit when it came to Tesla (maybe boring company, I forget the timeline) but SpaceX seemed different and he seemed "less involved" since he wasnt the president or whatever. Even then people who were skeptical of Musk tended to be favorable to Gwynne Shotwell like she was the voice of reason to counter Musk. But when they announced intercontinental travel with a fucking giant rocket and nothing about it made sense if you think for more than 10 seconds the wool completely fell from my eyes. I remember feeling totally dumbfounded watching that keynote live and the months of glowing articles about how great of an idea it was. Lost a lot of respect for a ton of space/science focused publication after that too.
I just figured out Elmo's nefarious plan. Let Waymo do the work and then buy them.
My two word reply: **FUNDING SECURED**
Road one the other day in LA during heavy rains. It drove safer (and honestly felt safer) than a lot of Ubers I have been in in the rain. It drove how I would like a car to drive in the rain.
Upvoted for r/ConspiracyTheory . I mean. duh? one thing tho, Waymo is controlled by Google/Alphabet. So how doe she wrestle it away from that behemoth?.
Tbh ten years ago it didn't matter to me that he wasn't being truthful. He was talking about doing things no one else was. I didn't really care if the dates were wildly optimistic, just knowing there his companies were working on self driving cars and going to mars and hyperloop excited me. I didn't sour on him until the "pedo guy" incident, which made me realize there's something really off with this man.
You need to research Elon Musk's life. Think of him as a smarter version of Donald Trump. He does the same thing: marketing and branding with a hefty dose of malignant narcissism. He lied about having any sort of formal education in physics, engineering, or computer science. His knowledge is at the level of an educated layperson. And he's read/watched a lot of sci-fi. As a physicist myself, I can tell you: this man is neither an expert nor some kind of visionary genius. Promising 22nd century technology next week (and never delivering) is Elon's racket. It's amazing how many investors never seem to learn, and always believe this charlatan when he makes yet another bunch of empty promises. He doesn't run companies the way they need to be run to advance the frontiers of technology. He runs them to pump up stock prices and siphon money from his investors (and the US government) into his own bank account. Boston Dynamics is light years ahead of Tesla. Atlas can do so much more than Optimus (Hasbro really ought to sue for copyright infringement). It's also autonomous - for real autonomous, not controlled by a gamer with a VR headset in the next room. Tesla will never catch up to them or to several other companies also in the business of advanced robotics. But you'll notice Boston Dynamics isn't making the kind of overblown promises we hear from Elon Musk. That's because they're a serious company, doing the serious work that will eventually get where Musk only pretends he can go.
Because Google is famously bad at actually commercializing products. They are legendary in fumbling good products such as Boston Dynamics who only become commercial products once they are sold off to other companies. Boston Dynamics was a research lab since 1992, they were owned by Google from 2013 to 2017. BD was sold in 2018 and *magically*, they start manufacturing robots immediately. Waymo 100% will be one of the following: spun out, sold, or suddenly mothballed (this one very unlikely).
I wish they would come to San Jose
> In 2018, you have to remember, he said he would bring the Model S, Model X, and Model 3 to market at good gross margins, and every single 'expert' said he was full of shit. Baloney. In 2018 all three vehicles were already on the market. Model S came out in 2012, X in 2015 and 3 in 2017. Which 'experts' are you sourcing here that didn't even know these cars were already available to purchase?
He brought the Model S onto the market in 2012 at something like half the price of the roadster, better performance, way bigger, etc... That was 'impossible' according to basically everyone at the time. The Model X was more of an evolution, so that wasn't really as big of a deal. The Model 3 was to be even smaller and way cheaper than the Model S, which by this point I think was like $70k starting or something, and the Model 3 was supposed to hit a $35k price tag. This was unbelievable. Turns out, they didn't hit the $35k price tag except for a brief offering of the Standard Range which they pretty much immediately pulled. But they did get to $40k. You have to understand that at $40k, this put it in competition with the Nissan Leaf, Ford Focus Electric, and a whole range of compliance cars that were laughable in comparison. There was the launch of the supercharger network, and just tons of promises made that did pan out. Nobody expected Musk to be right about anything at all, let alone most of the core promises. It turns out though that the best people in their fields were willing to work themselves to the bone for Tesla's mission for pennies, and customers were willing to do all sorts of stuff for free for the company - also for Tesla's mission. Looking back on it, I'm not sure how necessary Musk actually was in any of this, but he certainly did take the credit. Then once EVs largely became mainstream, all the smart people no longer wanted to work for free, so they left. Customers also didn't feel the need to push Tesla's mission either. Then Musk started making his insane Twitter statements and cave diver drama, and all the other bullshit and goodwill just evaporated little by little every year, and then all at once. But for a while there, Musk did have peak credibility, and even the thing we look back on as obvious lies (like FSD) could not be dismissed immediately at the time given his track record of mostly directionally correct predictions and promises. PS - I was an early Tesla investor and I was extremely aware of what was going on at the time, so I could probably type out a 50 page history of Tesla.
Waymo is also prepping (mapping?) in other cities as well. They're starting to drive around Nashville.
Different kind of rain. Seattle is a constant drizzle instead of a shorter but heavier "downpour".
Agreed. I live outside of Nashville - at the beginning of this month we had a week of Seattle style rain. I hated it, give me a proper thunderstorm and downpour rather than a mist.
it's going to be funny when Nashville has Waymo everywhere. Elon has been trying to take over Nashville with his dirty generated electricity to power GROK
Tesla will be bankrupt long before any of their cars are fully autonomous.
depends on how you define 'bankrupt'. He's an accounting wizard
Yeah, we just call it fraud, actually. I mean, I guess we could call him a fraud wizard.
I saw a really good quote today: “You can’t keep blaming yourself. Blame yourself once and move on” - Homer Simpson We all thought. We all regret. But now we know! We can educate others to the true threat of America and world - billionaire grifters like Elon Musk.
if you go back and watch he has always been consistently a conmen and he didn't exactly hide it. Beside the "optimistic" dates, he always talked about how "if you buy my thing (that hasn't existed yet) you will get millions of dollars back". And he repeated this every ... single... time ... he is on stage. And he did get people to buy in his shit that didn't exist. Reminder tesla's first """product""" is the roadster. Got millions of dollar for pre-order, never delivered a single one. It gets drown out by all the "innovation" and weed smoking though.
That was Memphis. In Nashville, Musk is just trying to dig a tunnel through solid rock without doing any geological analysis, planning or public feedback.
He's also running illegal diesel generators to power GROK training and the incidences of Asma hospitalizations has made Nashville number 1.
The illegal generators are in Memphis. They were natural gas generators not diesel, but still problematic.
Waymo is being positioned for an IPO. I guess Alphabet want to get some of the huge Robotaxi PE ratio while it still can.
Did you think that we’re on brink of a new future just because Elon Musk said so, even though there were zero hard facts and evidence that supported that ? That’s a hard fail. I mean, it’s been 50 years since the manned moon flights, and no one actually repeated that achievement since then, so why would anyone think that travelling to Mars is happening in the near future ? Based on what exactly ? Answer: nothing but clearly fictional promises.
haha. I'm fine as long as I get share's spin off.
thanks for the correction. So he's running illegal nat gas generators in Memphis.
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised he fooled anyone after 2016 or so. And the "colonize Mars" thing should have been a tip off to any rational person.
Reality was always there to guide you - you just decided to pay attention to that, and stop paying attention to Elons fantasies
He was talking about doing things people have talked about since the seventies, when Elon himself first encountered all of these ideas as a kid
All fair weather cities.
Still haven't solved the bad weather issue it seems.
Weirdly enough, what tipped me off to Elon being a hustler nearly a decade ago was a chat I had with a mechanic who was a pit man for stock car racing. Dude loved combustion engines and was passionate about their design — so much so he was pursuing mechanical engineering. Nice lad. Back then Elon was going on about how Tesla would save us from global warming, and the kid broke down, with sources, about how the cells he was using not only caused harm in this regard — but didn’t solve the problem of “how the heck do we charge these things cleanly across just one country’s fleet” He pointed out Elon *had* to be aware of these two problems if he were intellectually honest or was blissfully unaware of these realities — in either case I spotted the grift. I’m thankful for that lad because I was the only one in my friend group that didn’t drink the Kool-aid.
We might have watched the same video. It was a Canadian truck drive who did the math in a truck parking lot about how big the energy plants would have to be just to run ONE fleet of Tesla Semitrucks. it was instantly ludicrous and yet Elon pushed the fantasy, and still today, we don't have Tesla Semi-trucks. and nobody holds him to those past claims.
strange take. You basically admit to being conned. Elon used your fantasies to con you into believing his lies. You wanted to believe what Elon was selling more than know the truth.
absolutely this take. Nobody simply calls him out on stage, nobody holds him to his unmet promises. Instead they just keep buying into the next empty shiny promise that he throws out. The path that the smart, observant people take is usually to ignore him and keep doing what they're doing. He's conning the rubes now at this point.
[Just drove passengers into police crossfire in LA ](https://www.instagram.com/stories/alex.choi/3777944302505814202?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igsh=aXgwdHppd2Z0cjBx)
Miami doesn't have bad weather? 67" of rain a year apparently. They work in SF fog and recently in a Bay Area storm with hail and heavy rain which is progress. Currently working on full winter conditions. :)
Login is required to comment.
Login with Google