HistoricalFill7257
2025-11-14 13:48
The boy is selling snake oil’s
BringBackUsenet
2025-11-14 15:23
"Vision" = euphemistic way of saying fraud.
y4udothistome
2025-11-14 16:25
Exactly as the church would say faith my loyal sheeple
th3bigfatj
2025-11-14 22:29
Tesla is really behind on batteries. Outside of the US, they just buy batteries from competitors because their competitors do better batteries cheaper.
Tesla is very low margin on cars, hoping to make it up selling vaporware like FSD. Toyota has higher gross margins.
Tesla's growth seems to be over and their revenues are decreasing.
All of their promises - cross country FSD, advanced batteries, robotaxi network, revolutionizing solar with their glass tiles, lights out factories ("the machine that builds the machine") as a product - every one has been a lie.
Right now, Tesla is trading at more than 20x of what it's automotive business alone is worth. Because of the humanoid robot delusion. Their most recent lie. Any bets as to whether this one, which robot experts say is the wrong way to approach things, is yet another lie?
capital_folly
2025-11-17 14:18
What’s interesting is that Tesla benefits from a market structure where stories often matter more than fundamentals. When the valuation rests on long-dated promises (robotaxi, humanoids, FSD), narrative becomes a core business function, not just a marketing tool. Whether people see that as vision or as “snake oil” depends entirely on whether those promises ever convert into actual operating leverage.
capital_folly
2025-11-17 14:19
The challenge with Tesla is that the “vision premium” is now embedded directly into the share price.
When a company trades on future optionality rather than present-day unit economics, the line between optimism and overreach gets blurry very fast. Markets will eventually force a reality check, whether positive or negative.
capital_folly
2025-11-17 14:20
There’s definitely a belief-system dimension to Tesla. Most automakers compete on cost, supply chains, and incremental engineering improvements. Tesla competes on *identity* and *future expectation*. That works until the market demands proof instead of faith.
capital_folly
2025-11-17 14:21
This is where the strategic contradiction shows up:
1. Tesla’s auto margins have compressed to the point where the “hardware subsidy → software upside” model must work for the narrative to hold.
2. But FSD, robotaxi, and the humanoid all require regulatory, technical, and manufacturing breakthroughs that are still uncertain.
Legacy automakers don’t need FSD to justify their valuations. Tesla *does*.
That’s why I framed it as a “narrative-first company.” The downside of building valuation on future breakthroughs is that every delay compounds fragility.
If the breakthroughs happen, it’s brilliant.
If they don’t, the valuation has nothing left to stand on.
BringBackUsenet
2025-11-17 14:29
They aren't even trading on the company's vision. They are trading on the vision of the stock itself. It's taking on a life of its own, like crypto.
BringBackUsenet
2025-11-17 14:32
The thing is, few of them become anything tangible. Then when they do actually make something, it isn't what was promised. Everything from the specs to the pricepoint will be far off from whatever Felon pulled out of his ass when he announced it.
BringBackUsenet
2025-11-17 14:33
The margins don't matter. They aren't making money by selling cars. They are making money pumping and manipulating the stock.
y4udothistome
2025-11-17 21:37
Agree. Soon I hope
capital_folly
2025-11-18 05:42
Fair point. When the stock’s story starts outrunning the company’s actual capability, you get a feedback loop that’s hard to unwind. Eventually the numbers catch up, one way or another.
Bobinss
2025-11-19 18:04
Remember, that's what got Enron into so much trouble with all of their accounting tricks. For instance, in accounting, one acceptable form is to have the business take credit for making money when the income hits the bank account. That's called "cash basis" accounting. Another acceptable form is "accrual based" accounting where the business realizes the income when the invoice goes to the customer. Enron started realizing income when they thought of a new revenue stream and got Arthur Andersen to sign off on it. Both companies no longer exist because of that decision.
BringBackUsenet
2025-11-21 20:27
Enron had a lot of other dirty tricks like forcing blackouts to manipulate spot prices on the trading floor.