\> "no one really thinks about Elon Musk as an AI leader" Because none of the technology his companies create are on the leading edge of anything. The only thing he leads is a cult.
The richest man in the world and he's gonna do whatever he wants.
Garbage in, Garbage out. Elon will install a million chips then change the AI to say "Hitler was great". As I have noted for years, if Elons software worked those cars would have been driving themselves perfectly long ago. Throwing brute force at it is not gonna help. It's amazing the lengths he will go to to avoid adding a few sensors to his cars! Think about it this way. No computer is capable of doing what the combination of the Human Brain and Human Eyes (and assorted other senses) do. The folks who say "Oh, but you can drive with two eyes - therefore a computer with cameras can do it too" - do not realize the problem...or the solutions. We don't drive with our eyes. If this was the case, we'd be able to get in a car when we were 14 years old (or younger) and instantly drive perfectly. We drive using memories. It's our brain which has vast information embedded in it about everything we have learned (both conceptual and real) about driving. We know physics - the basics of what happens when car hits car or tree. We have seen 10's of thousands of "edge care" scenarios so that we recognize when they are possible. In addition, we also "feel" and "hear" - everyone knows how our balance works.....with the inner ear and so on. So we function as many various instruments. Think about how "uneducated" of an audience Elon is speaking to when he said or says "Your eyes work, so our eyes can drive this car". He'd talking to an audience that doesn't realize all these other things. The bottom l ine is that ANY computer and camera is WAY short of having the information to properly drive a car. Even moreso, any computer that can be priced well and fit inside a car....... Now, pretend that these other sensors are "force multipliers" - by using actual sensors instead of having to waste computing efforts to determine similar motors (i.e. car is slowing or swaying) we have freed up the computer. The answer is obvious. Sensor Fusion. Elon has already semi-admitted this by giving up on HW3 and trying (but failing so far) to do Level4.....something he said before he could simply skip over. So effectively he has admitted cameras alone won't do the job. The only excuse that makes any sense is this - he know he is so far behind and so incapable that he will never "get there" or "catch up". So he'll keep the ruse going as long as possible....for the stock price.
I would argue Starlink is an exception. Agree otherwise.
HughesNet/DirectPC were around long before.
Might be so, but unfortunately Starlinks capabilities are currently unmatched.
They are not the same technology. Musk is a bad person, but anti intellectualism is repulsive. You should be ashamed.
totally agreed with this. Starlink has a competitive advantage. And SpaceX is leading thanks to Gov't contracts. But Boring company can't do what it promised, Tesla isn't a leader in AI, EVs (anymore), solar, energy storage, or robotics, etc.
>As I have noted for years, if Elons software worked those cars would have been driving themselves perfectly long ago. Throwing brute force at it is not gonna help. He has demonstrated that he, and through him, Tesla, is unqualified to determine how close they are to achieving autonomous vehicles. But this time, really, next year, or maybe the one after that.
Well yeah because he’s not an actual Indian
>Given what’s publicly visible: Starlink has **hundreds of millions to over a billion dollars** in U.S.-government-related funding/support (subsidies + grants + allocations) that are publicly documented. But if one includes classified contracts, defence/military programs, and planned allocations, the total might be **several billion dollars**.
The way Starlink handles satellite communication would not be financially feasible without large government contracts. Hence why private satellite companies didn't do it prior.
One of the first things he did running DOGE. was to fire around 30 people in the NHSTA, whose job it was to research FSD. Big surprise.
So is the rate they fall back to earth And it’s not so great once a lot of people in an area are using it
Adding a few sensors now means they will be starting development way behind others. Ya visual only is now about as best as it will get and gains are extremely slow. They are painted into a corner.
Thing is, it works good enough to get a lot of videos. You can drive 29 trips a month that are successful. But if the 30th trip is not, that is the video a Tesla fan will not be releasing. And if you have 12 trips a year that something happens, that is far from being ready. Is not even in the ballpark.
It is entirely reliant on government subsidies. Nobody can run a profitable company when the satellites only last five years.
He's only the richest on paper. His real worth is *negative*. If Tesla was valued as a car company his shares would only be about $5B. SpaceX and Starlink are worthless without government contracts. Far less than his debts.
All true but there is currently no competition for what they offer. Elon is no creative genius. Every company of his was thought of by others. Renaming Twitter and calling other companies X is about as creative as white bread. What he does better than anyone is raise capital to pay the engineers to design and build things.
ASHAAAAAAAAMED
Yeah. Stupidity is shameful.
His charging network incomparable. All the others are horrible.
I thought it was closer to a billion a year or so
Yeah, whoever buys Tesla when it folds is buying the supercharger network
Starlink is just satellite internet in low earth orbit. I mean it’s better than the previous lot so maybe that counts as bleeding edge. I would have said the full flow raptor engines. They are the first production full flow engines ever.
The raptor engines are the first production full flow rocket engines… not the first ever for sure but it’s reasonably bleeding edge
The other senses. Does Tesla’s “FSD” have audio input? As in “there’s a fire truck comeing. Maybe I should wait at the light.” Or the ability to think “dead skunk” three hundred yards before hitting the “invisible at night” carcass because you didn’t change lanes?
Starlink, no. The idea was hashed already and is nothing new. Sure, spacex has done a lot of advances in rocketry and pushed the industry forward. I'll give them that.
Outdated opinion
Until ASTS comes online. They'll make Starlink obsolete, for sure.
There are already self driving cars and trucks what are you talking about?
They’re not presently focusing on the same market. AST is addressing DTC (cell service and limited data), starlink is presently focused on broadband (home/rv/maritime high speed internet).
Does anybody else get come-ons from their cellphone companies to sign up for starlink? I had to ask T-Mobile to stop trying to get me to buy in to that garbage!
And, thankfully, they're still on his tail with FSD investigation. Yet, it sure doesn't feel like there will ever be consequences for Tesla. (For one thing, NHTSA isn't a legal enforcement body).
Please - direct me to a list of approved Level 5 Cars - which mean the basic SAE Level 5 Standards and Regulations. Anything else is just.....BS. WayMo is Level 4 and probably as close as we can get to an Autonomous Vehicle. They are really the first and only in the USA doing anything worth discussion. They are doing 100's of thousands of paid rides a week - no monitors, no safety people in the cars, full prices, etc. Please - maybe I missed it. Let me know of another company doing this is something close. Legally.
Pffft. I hate Elon as much as the next guy but you’re living in fantasy world. I have a Lightning and model 3. There’s no comparison. The only negative to the super charger network is when assholes like me take up two spots with our Lightnings.
Turns out having access to sovereign level assets makes it *much* easier to throw money and people at problems that before were not feasible to solve before.
Does someone drive a waemo?
The four charging plazas near me have both Tesla and non Tesla. The non Tesla have ccs and nacs. The non Tesla are much cheaper. Uptime is 90%+. You have to juggle apps which is a pain.
China has Elon beat in AI ND cars
If you ignore the environmental catastrophe of thousands of satellites deorbiting a year then sure, it is the leader of its particular niche. But the idea that a satellite mesh should let alone will ever supplant most terrestrial internet is highly dubious.
Giant entropy machines - turning a ton of power into heat and dubious information.
They could pretty easily collect and release data on fault rates and trending. They just choose not to. Probably because real world data shows the "march of nines" Elon once talked about isn't actually happening. How the market has such tremendous faith in it anyway is a great mystery to me.
Their "Robotaxis" have supposedly been retrofitted with emergency audio response but I don't think the real world HW4 platform even has the capability.
Lmao EDS
Lmao EDS
Lmao go buy your guang-feis
Not leader in evs? It’s the most sold one
BYD sells far more. In the US, they're down to about 40% of new sales and declining as others continue to offer newer, competitive, compelling products. But I meant more about EV innovation. Their EVs are the same as they've been for a while and they haven't introduced anything new and compelling. I've been arguing for a while that they've been foolish to cede the traditional truck market to Ford, GM, Rivian, and eventually Scout, while they've ceded the SUV market to GM, Rivian, Kia, and eventually Jeep and Scout. I don't consider CUVs to be SUVs as they usually have different buyers. Tesla needs a more diversified product portfolio than sedans and crossovers.
Good luck affording your electricity bills Memphis, TN.
Apparently drivers also make judgments by looking at other drivers -- its unconscious usually, for a quick assessment. AI doesn't do that.
Kia ? lol. Until someone takes over their USA most sold they’re the leader
Hes the type of evil doer that will cause wars unfortunately. The facility is probably more floor space for failed neuralink experiments. Why torture 100 monkeys when you can torture 500? Mars cybertruck etc etc
Not focusing on same as ASTS really? What is T-Mobile launching then with Starlink? Why is Musk buying up Echostar spectrum for $17 billion for? Why is Starlink sending letter to FCC and complain about ASTS satellite for then? If Starlink is not focusing on same as ASTS? ASTS services is d2d and not DTC as you falsely claims, its excatly same as Starlink wants to achieve. But ASTS d2d are way ahead and much better than Starlink.
He’s not “running” SpaceX though.
He's no tech leader, either. I don't get why so many people still see him as some sort of tech genius. Get lost. The guy knows nothing about anything. Proof of that is abundant. He's a bullshitter. He's an expert in bullshitting. He bullshitted his way to success, but that doesn't make him an expert in anything else. Lie, cheat, steal, and lie some more. That's what a bullshitter does. That's what Elon Musk does. Tesla is way overrated, and everybody fucking knows it. That bubble will burst some day, and hopefully it will bring Musk down. I know that's wishful thinking, but a man can dream, right?
So there are a few inaccuracies in your claim. They are not focusing on the same core product. They are complementary. In this case, DTC means “direct to cell”, which (correctly) is ASTs approach. Starlink has been broadly targeting fixed broadband, moving into mobile/cell-phone direct connectivity (DTC/D2D) as an extension to their very successful current (non DTC) offerings.
If ASTS is DTC then so is Starlink. [https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/ast-spacemobile-firstnet-push-ahead-with-plans-for-d2d-sat-service-for-first-responders/](https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/ast-spacemobile-firstnet-push-ahead-with-plans-for-d2d-sat-service-for-first-responders/)
DTC from asts will have broadband speed without a clunky external receiver. They have the same market. Starlink's DTC is technologically inferior and any semblance of their "very successful" low speed solution, would evaporate. The need for Starlink would drop immensely.
I'm not musk fan but denying that SpaceX is pushing the boundaries of space flight is outright dumb. And it was Tesla that triggered world's transition to EVs.
I agree. Although it may be interesting. The new head of the NHSTA. Morrison I believe is his last name, has clashed before with Leon. Before he worked, I think at Apple, think he did work at the NHSTA. He has a bit of history with Leon and Tesla.
The world is bigger than the USA, but okay.
There was literally no economically viable need for it. Else the market would have provided for it automatically. That's basic 'free' market (neo)liberal economic doctrine. If, on the other hand, it's a market failure, and government needs to step in to provide a social need (like administrating postal services or public transport to 'non-profitable' outlier regions), then the whole thing should have been public and should belong to the taxpayer (who pay billions to design, build, launch and operate it, and receive a mass of other negative 'externalities'). Instead we get billions in handouts to techbros who build surveillance state machinery and companies, offload all the adverse effects on society and keep all the profit. Worst of all worlds. The height of irrationality, yet you will get people in this thread defending this sort of thing without a hint of irony or self-doubt. It's so ludicrous, all you can do is laugh in their face, really.
Yes and neurolink. Everything else is an exception. Agree otherwise
He is such an abject loser.
You do know Musk did not start Tesla. He just poured a lot of money into it.
Absolutely. He has probably close to zero contribution to the engineering side of things. I was replying to this statement: > Because none of the technology his companies create are on the leading edge of anything. which is ignorant of breakthroughs musk companies made.
Yeah. And it also depends on how bad the “incident” is. The problem is, you have no idea when it will happen or how bad it will be. Maybe the car will try to drive into oncoming traffic or drive into a deer. You have no idea, and having to constantly monitor the car is nearly the same as having to drive it yourself. Sure, it’s a neat tool to have on hand, I’d say that - but I don’t take anyone seriously who says this will be the system that takes us to 100% full autonomous driving.
Wait, they seriously haven’t had audio input this whole time? Insane.
1289897124912u
devomusk
SHAME SHAME SHAME
waemo doesnt exist
murica
its WAYmo
Did you steal my draft ? That’s exactly how I would have put it. Anagram Tesla =steal and (tales). How fitting!
Still better than the 15/1.5mbps DSL that is still the only offering by my family that ATT announced they are killing in a few years. Id love to get my brother and mothers places onto fiber, but that requires fiber existing out in the country.
When Elon joined as an investor Tesla had zero cars sold. While he was not the founder, the work to get it from that state to today is enormous and definitely more than just pouring money into it. If it was that easy, it would’ve been done by many richer people 20 years ago.
None of Tesla was a tech breakthrough. It was a marketing success. They didn't design their batteries -- Panasonic designed and built them to sell to Tesla. They didn't design their cars -- Tesla first used Lotus to build their bodies, then were given a cheap old GM factory in Fremont to build their bodies. They didn't invent electric cars. They've existed for a century. GM produced the EV1 ten years before Tesla (before Musk) built their first EV. What Tesla did do was realize that they could start with an ultra-luxury, status-brand product at the top, then work their way down to mass market. And that was already Tesla's plan when Musk bought his way in (then sued to be called a founder).
Whatever
I don’t give a SHIt
“The meanest and most hateful thing about money is that it even gives one talent” Dostoyevsky I always liked that line because it succinctly describes the problem with capitalism
Would you put your child in the car and send her/him to school? The answer is absolutely no. The cyber taxi had 3 minor accidents in two months with all of 12 vehicles on the road. Only 1 minor injury but do not try and tell me that is better than a human driver. It is not even close.
Yes, and that’s with a human sitting there with their finger on the stop button. Even worse if they weren’t there.
Without the government the company would be bankrupt. The government/taxpayer basically subsidized the company and his entire fortune
Sometimes breakthrough is not about being the first but about being the most persistent or even lucky one. > They've existed for a century Right, all 10 of them. Not 10 brands but 10 prototypes that were built and abandoned. Tell me how many 100% electric cars were there on the roads before Tesla? I don't care if musk is full of shit or if they used Panasonic batteries, but if you deny that global shift to EVs was due to Tesla you're simply blind.
There were over 1,000 GM EV1's produced. My friend had one, till GM took them all back when the leasing period ended. They were pretty awesome, and it was clear that battery technology was headed in the direction necessary for them to be fast and long-range. And that was back when Musk was breaking immigration laws and residing illegally in the US, well before his shit site "X" was bought by Theil. The global shift wasn't due to Tesla -- it was clear that EVs would be popular once the battery tech got there. Tesla didn't get the battery tech there, so they don't get credit. I say that as a longtime Tesla investor who sold my holding recently -- Tesla knows how to market shit and that's all.
I'm pretty sure if not for Tesla traditional car manufacturers would lobby the shit out of politicians to keep ICE cars untouchable and idea of 100% EVs would land just next to Toyota's hydrogen cars. But suddenly there's Tesla and people go crazy about it. And just like that marketing / lobbying alone doesn't cut it any more. Companies were literally forced by the market to start building EVs if they wanted to stay competitive. In my books it was a breakthrough.
Honestly, looking from the outside it seems Starlinks success is mostly due to government money, and the utter shitshow that is US teleco/ISP. (and regulatory capture) Satellite will always be worse then a dedicated fiber, but the US market is so fucked up with monopolies and pilfering funds allocated to fiber rollouts, that there's an actual gap for Starlink to serve. If things had been done properly in the US, Starlink would only serve some rural areas that it isn't worth rolling out fiber to. Ergo, the one area satellite internet is useful for.
> All true but there is currently no competition for what they offer. It's a service looking for customers. The amount of money Elon needs to sink into it, and keep sinking in, to get some percentage of the markets that are reasonably open to such a service is a non-starter. General interest is going to be rural, planes, boats and maybe RVs, for the most part. Virtually everyone else is better served by wired, or even cellular. Even rural, in some cases, is a non-starter. My state has been pushing hard to find providers with alternative offerings, beyond the standard cable/etc.
Wired is better, but it's not available in many places still. Starlink is the go here in western Montana. When I working fires this summer every ICP was running on Starlink. It has it's place.
EV history is fascinating; recommend "Who Killed the Electric Car" parts 1 & 2 . . . The 1990s NiMH patent was acquired by Texaco somehow and they squelched that tech direction, forcing the pivot to lithium. Like the first-gen LEAFs, GM's EV-1 was too small for the price tag, even with the gas savings. Tesla's bright idea was to first compete in the "Lexus/Infiniti" space, not the daily commuter space, then adapting that tech to Model 3/Y. Nissan could have been the next Tesla but they simply dropped the ball. Tesla took a $465M federal energy loan for NUMMI but Nissan took $1.45B for their US LEAF production facilities. Tesla was really operating within legacy auto's OODA loop last decade, bootstrapping the billions of regulatory credits into factories on the ground. For some reason the story ends with Model Y currently, it remains to be seen what else Elon has up his sleeves.
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I mean I thought when starlink rolled out it would be good because there would finally be competition among internet providers . Then it was priced exactly the same as xfinity, so what’s the point?
Starlink is an idiotic idea. Nobody else has done it before because it can never be a profitable business, not because it wasn't technically possible. It's just a way of funneling money to Space X which also isn't viable.
Have they really though?
Space X hasnt even gone beyond low earth orbit.
But so what since they don't work properly.
Human drivers can also feel the road surface through their bodies and know when it's getting skiddy
It's also the only decent internet service in a lot of places.
So what?
An extremely expensive way to supply not very good internet to a very small market.
China makes much better EV's but Americans aren't allowed to buy them.
There's no profit in the supercharger network.
It's a valuable service to those people.
Irrelevant. It's supposed to be a business.
Interesting. I believe it I get that's something a car could be designed to emulate, but exactly what it needs to sense, and how, and how to analyze such data... is something maybe no one is working on.
Are you fucking high? Not only do they work but they have been reused. I am no fan of musk and haven’t been since the first thunder foot video criticising him in 2014 but to say the raptors don’t work is dumb
You're talking about the ones that were reused on the Starship booster?
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