Well yea..they are better cars.
It wasn't a long time ago when Musk was laughing at BYD and all they were good for was providing battery to Tesla cars
They get their share. But with the current line-up, they will not take over the market. The Assist systems available in Europe from BYD are barely competitive, the charging times are slow, consumption relatively high. And the price difference is not too big. On the other hand, VW brand Skoda will introduce an additional smaller model in the similar price range soon. Renault meets the market with good looking small cars, as well as Fiat. The Koreans are also strong here. On the other end of the price range we have BMW who introduce their new highly competitive platform with high charging Speed, great Software and advanced Assist systems. Volvo is a great example. The Hype wore off and the basically chinese cars lose market shares rapidly.
There's that, but I think the more important factor is how much the EU hates Chinese automakers, and Chinese EV makers in particular, vs. how much they hate American automakers, and Tesla in particular. Even if they both built the same car for the same price in Europe, I think BYD would beat Tesla.
It’s more that Tesla is standing still and has been for years and Europeans (rightfully) hate Elon. But even from a business perspective, Elon is sabotaging his own company.
Chinese cars are oddly inefficient when it comes to battery usage. Considering their capacities they should be getting longer range. Not sure if it’s their drive train or what.
Until I see 2nd hand market for Chinese cars in my neighborhood I never buy it, even BYD. They have to prove their cars last years in service. So far I see they completely change models every 2-3 years.
Elon is a degenerate grifting ketamine addict.
BYD taxis regularly report 1,000,000 KMs in China.
Let’s face it, Tesla’s a dead brand. Like most pioneering tech companies, its competitors pushed forward while the complacent leader dwindled their thumbs.
Ah, the old reliable metric: performance specifications in China
BYD is in a good spot because not only can I NOT name the CEO, I can’t point to anything they did that would tarnish their brand.
Does BYD have a diner?
His very own Steve Ballmer moment.
Its ironic how EV people always shit on truck owners because they dont need such a large vehicle and only use it to get groceries. They say that is better to get a small car and go rent a big truck when you need it. The same people then complain about EV range and capacity when all they do is go to and from work. They complain about slow charging time when they just go home after work and can charge at home. Well guess what, if you want the range and fast charging, you can go rent one for those rare occasions as well.
If trends hold, this news should add another $1.50 to Tesla’s stock price for some reason.
Musk did a helluva lot more than twiddle his thumbs. In fact, tesla would be much better off today if that’s all he’d been up to.
That settles in then. China would never report bullshit numbers to make Chinese products look good
When BYD comes to the US, Tesla is toast.
Both byd and Tesla make compelling cars, the problem is that Teslas used to be aspirational and there was a lot of hype around the technology. Now, the hype has worn off because most of the tech that they promised either doesn't work or has been caught up to by other car makers. A Kia has the same tech as a model 3 now. Also, some of the design decisions ultimately didn't pan out. The sparse, minimalist interior was cool and futuristic several years ago. Now it looks cold and dated, and the lack of physical controls annoys people. Further, all electric cars have found a very distinct niche and that is good for the consumer (and will grow as the tech gets better). But this is bad for Tesla, who were out to become The iPhone Of Cars.
You lost me at price difference is not too big. So 20k BYD to tesla 40k
Could be no second-hand market because people like owning them, and don't want to sell.
Are you sure those are the same people? I am an EV person. Before i got my EV I knew that I will not have issues with range, or charging, or size of a car. I got EV when it was time to replace my older ICE car. I know a lot of EV owners and I never heard them complaining about any of those things because, as you point out those aren’t issues for many EV owners.
I'm glad tesler is getting spanked, but there is no way I am going to buy a Chinese car.
Having seen both, BYD is hands down a better vehicle in every aspect.
I was going to joke about Tesla being ahead in the vertically integrated diner / car manufacturing race... **But BYD started restaurants first!** <<CourtesyBYD and its partner Sime Darby Motors have launched "BYD by 1826" showrooms that double as white-tablecloth restaurants in Singapore. These restaurants offer affordable dining experiences, like a 3-course meal for S$14++, and dishes are sometimes named after BYD EV models. BYD by 1826 is located in Suntec City, Singapore, next to a BYD car showroom.>> Miso pasta and mushroom truffle soup Of course, BYD may not have robots serving popcorn (as Tesla does). Tesla must take it's pride where it can.
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Well, expect to see Tesla stock go way up again... Tesla stock isn't connected to reality.
You should compare cars in equal size and also the prices in Europe. The Seal is at 46.000 Euros in Germany. The Dolphin Surf 23.000.
Their self driving is just as overhyped and has lots of flaws. People are now discovering. Tesla is still better.
Bruh these are just regular taxi drivers...
Oh I’m sure he’s taking way more than just ketamine.
It would have been dead on arrival without the subsidies
Tesla does not have a robot serving popcorn. It has a remote controlled puppet that still managed to break on its first day.
They have the Model 3 sized car (Seal), the model Y sized car (Seal U, PHEV). And then they have the cars that mostly sell in Europe which means A, B and C category more or less. I think they are still missing a couple of pieces which are better offered by MG and the Geeky satellites (Volvo, Lynx&Co), but once they fill this gap they can offer something on the entire EU market stack. They still need imho to improve and get out of their "kind of cheap" vibe. Fast charging time and ADAS systems are not the best, as shown in many real world tests. I would get an MG4 over anything else BYD has to offer IMHO, going Chinese Vs Chinese. I drive an Renault BEV by the way.
And that's his good points
Intriguing! I'm in London and there's a BYD dealership just down the road from us, and I probably see a few on the road around every day. A lot of the red London buses are also BYD, so also very easy to spot!
Tesla was good at the beginning. Since then they only slept on their existing model and only did a face lift. Meanwhile you have BYD with a decent range a very good comfortable car. And I'm pretty happy to see the downfall of Tesla, if it can hurts his nazi leader.
Well, fuck. There goes my thesis on Tesla.
I have never even heard of their self driving. Imma press X to doubt the "just as overhyped" claim.
Pretty sure that people aren't really buying BYD cars for their self driving hype.
Correction it is an Undead brand...a zombie shambling forward, eating the brains of anyone it can get its hands on.
Interested to ask why, for political or practical reasons? either are valid, must curious. Personally I would not yet (even if they were available in the US) but could totally see myself doing it in a few years if they opened up the market and there was a second hand market and reliable repair. A decade ago I would not have thought I would ever own a Korean car and here I am loving my Ioniq 5.
Patience! The big plan isn't always immediately clear to us mere mortals. In time, AI, SpaceX, Twitter, Neuralink, Optimus and Tesla will fully be integrated -- both in a corporate sense, and financially and technologically. Imaging being able to Tweet (I mean "X") on Mars -- handsfree, using Neuralink -- and have a robot respond by delivering popcorn to you! And thanks to AI *knowing exactly what kind of popcorn you want!* Robots never stop working, so while you sleep they can be roving (in Tesla cars, of course), delivering popcorn to those few who can't afford (or, perversely, do not want to own) their own. This will earn you money. Notice how you NEVER see Tesla doubters even mention the popcorn on Mars angle.
When I buy a car, I buy one that I will be driving, not one that's driving me. That's called a taxi
Pride comes before the fall.
At least he reflected on his comments and said he was wrong and didn’t understand what Apple was doing back then with financing your phones, etc
I suspect if Apple had bought Tesla 10 years ago this would all have ended very differently. But it's now a dead company walking and VW, Toyota, GM and the rest aren't far behind. All addicted to big ICE profits, all apparently unable to read a pricing chart. The Chinese are obviously getting subsidized but so is Tesla (in carbon credits) and in 10 years batteries will be 1/3 the price they are now and EVs will be half to 1/3 the real cost of ICE vehicles. At some point Americans will give up on subsidizing loss making GM et al and be happy to buy Chinese cars at 1/3 the price. As it happens today I am picking up a new Chevy Equinox EV. With a bunch of subsidies & rebates it's costing $22k (+ tax) for a base model (sticker price is $35k). An equivalent in China is about 15k with better features.
All the big autos are cooked. They're all addicted to big ICE cars & Trucks profits and cannot bring themselves to see that the future cost of EV & batteries will be way below what we see now. Tesla was surviving on a now cancelled climate comp subsidy from those big autos Today I am buying a new base model GM Equinox EV. Cost in US is 35k brought down to $21k + tax by a soon to cancelled tax credit and a soon to run out Utility credit. The equivalent car in China is the BYD Dolphin. Better equipped and costs $13k! I would buy it but I'm not allowed to! Pretty soon an American President is going to say, not worth keeping these antique companies alive when we can import better vehicles at 1/3 the price.
Unfortunately they have tied themselves to so many huge investment companies it will not die as fast as it should.
BYD Tang is quite popular as as Taxis in Norway too. I did consider buying one, so I had a demo car for a day. It was quite good. Spacious by European stabdards, comfortable seats, and good stereo. The infotainment was abysmal, the headlights were crap and it uses a lot juice.
A LOT of Chinese EVs follow the moronic Tesla interior design standard
Chinese RVs get subsidized 3x more. 1. Components and suppliers 2. Production 3. Buyers All get state subsidies and usually 0-1% loans form the CCP plus insane vertical integration. Oh and a fair few Chinese EVs are absolutely sold at a loss to gain market share. ICE isn't going anywhere, no matter that the CCP says
They won't. 100%+ tariffs will do that.
Lol no Stop guzzling CCP propaganda
i don't know where you're getting your facts, but all private business and social media communication in China is carefully monitored by the government — especially key state subsidized industries like vehicles, only state-controlled social media is allowed where anything that stirs up patriotic fervor is artificially signal boosted. they are pushing these cars hard but even people in China don't want them if they can afford something else. with [countless](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2023-china-ev-graveyards/) [unsold](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i3s74UF0gL8) [EVs](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8) make that clear. call me a conspiracy theorist but this is a country that ranks 9/100 on the freedom house index. lower than russia and barely any better than north korea. if you think kim jong un would do it, so would xi. long post, sorry, i just REALLY REALLY REALLY worry about people being overly credulous of dictatorships.
So you're saying taxis in China are not EVs, or that they're EVs and that the business operate at a loss, and CCP just subsidizes all taxis in China just to look good to foreigners? Tell me how it works... Seriously...
no, the chinese government intensely subsidizes *all* EVs (not just taxis) mainly because: 1. they do not want foreign companies to out-compete domestic industries. 2. they are willing to take a huge loss right now so they can dominate foreign markets and profit in the future it's probably not a loss for the taxi company because with the surplus of vehicles there is a lower upfront cost. imported automobiles are extremely expensive in china as they are subject to high tariffs. most foreign car companies that operate in china have joint ventures with domestic companies to build vehicles in china using chinese materials and chinese labor. until 2018 they were required *by law* to form joint ventures with a chinese company that would own more than 50% of the venture [(example)](https://youtu.be/1At2H-lIJog). so entirely domestic cars are pretty much always cheaper to begin with. i have my doubts about the lifespan of these vehicles, but it doesn't matter much because the price is so low and preventative maintenance and repair is not ingrained in chinese car culture. until 2013 vehicles [were required to be scrapped after 15 years](https://www.ecns.cn/business/2013-05-02/detail-ifytxtex5040848.shtml). they still impose mileage restrictions, i don't even know if it's legal to have a car with 1m kilometers on it. after all this a country that is very new to car ownership and it ties into the more broad culture of chabuduo. things tend to be built as quick and dirty as possible and demolished as soon as the shoddy quality becomes an issue. this is a blessing and a curse, china can create new infrastructure extremely quickly but it only lasts for a very short time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD8qqEx4G18 Btw found this debunking the "millions of EVs abandoned". Turns out it's half-truths. These cars have a 30kw batteries lol.
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