Tesla absolutely obsolete in 4 years

I always wonder why “getting upgrades” should be a sales pitch? Why not just sell a car that’s finished when shipped rather than fixing stuff afterwards?

I mean I liked the idea of over the air updates so it's getting updated like any PC or phone you buy. Except this thing became obsolete faster than a damn iphone.

Your first Musking?

Most phone and PC updates are for security reasons. That shouldn't be a problem for any competently designed car. I find most phone updates annoying at this point as they change things for the sake of saying they changed it rather than any actual improvement.

Yeah I mean this thing predates X. I made a ton of money off of Tesla stock early on so buying the car was an easy decision for me at the time. To be honest, I don't even want another car. This one is paid off and I don't really want to go back to gas or an electric car with worse range or one that's more expensive. It would just be nice if this one worked as advertised in any way whatsoever.

The other issue is resale value is going to be shit. No one wants one anymore. When I got mine it was a cool car that nobody had and I really liked it. Little did I know there would be model Ys everywhere soon and soon you’d be seen as a Nazi sympathizer. He completely tanked the brand to where I’m embarrassed to drive the car, GG Elon

If you were promised things that never happened and never will, sue. A lawsuit was just started against Tesla for similar reasons.

Yeah I actually could have sold the car after buying it for a profit because of how hard it was to get a car during COVID and kind of regret not just doing that and getting another one but it would have been a pain

Joke ass company. Kills an old lady, head of sales leave and stock is still up

Hah remember that? I got a good deal on mine at the time too. Some people I think paid 80K for the model Y at one point too during all the hype

The OTA updates point, I must admit Tesla have moved the dial for the industry in a good way generally. I say that because up until now it’s always been the old school PITA you need to take the car to the dealer to get any sort of software update etc. Having said that, the amount of updates I actually noticed making any sort of tangible difference on my model S I used to have was very low. I don’t recall there ever being an update that improved range, or performance. There was maybe one that added a useful feature making the spotify app work a bit better and show descriptions etc. one or two updates that added Amazon music or another app that I didn’t need. For the most part it was largely silly things like more fart noises or I see the latest one coming is flashing lights to the music etc. So A+ for making free OTA updates more of a thing, but ultimately a lot of it was just nonsense.

As MKBHD says for phones, never buy something for features that aren't there when the product ships. It's too easy for the manufacturer to say things changed and oops they can no longer do that.

Intel won't get grok? Whew I dodged a bullet there. I have ZERO interest in using that fascist AI garbage...

EVs as a whole are just computers attached to servomotors. The real limiting factor, and primary differentiator, is the underlying battery technology. When Tesla began to take off, the original hype-cycle revolved around the idea that Musk would ultimately develop a next generation (million-mile) battery. Musk quit on solid-state because he couldn't scale it and decided he could just upsize the 2170 and sell that as some sort of breakthrough as the 4680. He tried to cut some production costs by purchasing dry-coating IP from a company called Maxwell and that didn't work, so his contribution to batteries is limited to just taking an existing battery technology and producing it at a bigger scale (sort of like what he did with Tesla in general). [CATL's founder and CEO flatly stated that Musk doesn't understand batteries](https://insideevs.com/news/740941/he-doesnt-know-how-to-make-battery-musk-blasted-catl-chief/), which is pretty damning but also a statement that a battery maker can make because EVs need battery makers more than the other way around. Tesla manufactures batteries based on licensing deals with LG and Panasonic, the underlying technology isn't theirs, they pay to follow somebody else's production recipe. Nobody who stands to benefit from Tesla's share price can ever make this kind of statement, but this to me is evidence that Tesla's pole position in the EV market isn't as ironclad as it marketcap makes it out to be. Other OEMs are already making the financial commitments to next-gen battery technology, which is rapidly ramping up in the United States. IMO, battery companies like Quantumscape (California) and Factorial (Massachusetts) are going to render traditional lithium-ion obsolete in EVs and EVTOL. Musk appears to be focused on the wrong things, and I think it's going to cost the automaker. I expect Tesla will be to EVs what Blackberry was to the smartphone.

You want a car for life you get a mid level ICE Honda civic or Corolla.

Musk's a genius in understanding people's hopes and dreams and exploiting them for his own gain. It might not be einstein genius but its still genius nevertheless

LOL.... this guy WANTS ~~Grok~~ Mecha-Hitler in his car!

You've been Musked!

Sue em - they promised shit they didn’t deliver, they don’t have a dealer network so they’re directly accountable. I’d check on a lawyer and see if there’s a suit here, probably a class action

Not to be a dick, but the only people who believed a car could be perpetually upgraded only did so because they don’t know how cars and/or related hardware works. Musk is the only business person in modern history who had the balls to tell blatant lies like this. Your inability to think critically ultimately led to your situation. You fell for Musks grift.

[removed]

Happy to join a class action but don't really have the means to sue the richest man in the world at the moment.

Same it's not like I even want to use Grok, I'd much rather use Claude or Gemini or really any other AI that isn't trained on fascist ideals, but it's still annoying that yet another simple feature to implement won't be implemented.

Oh yeah baby I had a 2004 Carolla S for YEARS. That thing is still probably kickin somewhere

fucken hate being in the middle of typing on my phone and suddenly the 'there's an upgrade available!' overlay pops up. Fuck off I'll tell you when I want that shit. Microsoft *really* wanted to force windows 11 on me but joke's on them when it tried to just do it without my permission it's not compatible, too old lol

The auto industry wants a "Software Defined Vehicle" model , similar to a cell phone. This would allow for upgraded for all sorts of things as time goes by. The main issue ( as OP points out), is that hardware can't accommodate the updates and is rendered obsolete. Seems like another instance of Tesla making up and selling features they've yet to design.

FSD was worded in a way that it doesn’t promise anything.  Some countries decided that’s bullshit and are suing but as an individual in America you have 0 chance of suing and winning, especially with our current administration.

The most meaningful update was when they enabled the side cameras to be used as blind spot detectors when you activate the turn signal. That was probably three years ago.

When the solid state battery EVs hit the market in 2 years it'll destroy Tesla completely. I'm ok with that.

You’re confusing software upgrades with hardware upgrades. If you ever believed the companies bullshit, you clearly haven’t bought an electronic *anything* recently.

No offense but who cares about Grok in a car? Lol

I want a used one for a low price. I am no longer Musk fan since he accused a diver saving kids of being a pedo out of no where with no proof. That burned my view of him. But the hard working engineers and operators putting these cars together I can support and I support the mission to sustainable transportation. If only the ego of the CEO didn’t ruin a good thing. So many opportunities to not over sell and focus on quality were squandered in place of fancy presentations and sales pitches for technology that is years and years away. But I would buy a used one if I could and if they continue the improvements of the service enters and supercharger stations.

I don’t understand it either. It’s a freaking vehicle. What company has ever had a product that is upgraded for life. These people live in a different reality.

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>getting upgrades I bought a Toyota. * It's infotainment will never be updated. * It's battery range (small hybrid battery) will never be upgradable. * It's got Toyota Safety Sense 2.0 and that will never be updated. It would be nice to have it update. But that's typically not the relationship automakers have with customers. We buy the car, as-is. And then just try to maintain it for as long as we can. Tesla exist in an uncanny valley, where they try to be a cell phone company and a car company. And by trying to do both, they kind of fail at both.

There are a plenty of EVs with better real world range than Teslas. Tesla hugely overstates their WLTP range. On Ecobest Tesla M3 long range came last in WLTP to real world range. 77% of WLTP.

About yes.  The much lauded benefits of a car company that’s actually a tech company…

That is false. Tesla was very recently legally forced to reimburse FSD to a US customer for failure to deliver. https://electrek.co/2025/07/07/tesla-forced-reimburse-full-self-driving-arbitration-failing-deliver/

Go buy another one. Everything’s computer

>For the most part it was largely silly things like more fart noises How the fuck anyone continued to that take that dumb cunt seriously after he forced fart noises onto people's cars...and you know that it was Elon's idea because he's 12 years old

So MUSKYYY

Care for another glass of Kool-Aid?

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Tech nerds are easy marks.

iPhone has been out for 17 years and only now does the hardware change so infrequently that Apple can provide current OS support a max of 7 years.

Windows breaks every single time they push an update - why would you want that in a car?

>Not to be a dick, but the only people who believed a car could be perpetually upgraded only did so because they don’t know how cars and/or related hardware works. Yeah this is a quintessential sucker's bet.

That's not my experience with Windows lol

Who told you it’s upgrade for life? You are still getting upgrades. FSD 12.6 is very capable so don’t say like that’s not worth a salt. Tesla has promised to upgrade HW3 to to HW4 or later but you have to wait it out. Not to mention all the new features and changes you have gotten last 4 years. Compare to other car manufactures who are you getting this level of new features upgrade like Tesla?

7 years is better than 4.

Sue

The problem is that cars are phones or computers on wheels now, and also need security updates. I don't think this undermines the idea that a $60k or more car should be a finished product... While most car hacks are boring, some are concerning, and a few are down right frightening.

Yeah, who are they, Bethesda?

Musk has developed an OS for a computer shaped like a car and that computer gets obsoleted every time there is a software upgrade. I guess people didn’t learn anything from MS.

One concrete update that soured me on Tesla was when they decided to increase that stupid visualization area. Instantly lost a lot of screen space to an idiotic "feature".

IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER

I would buy a cell phone or a laptop if I wanted these AI products. Why does that have to be integrated into the car's system? I used to have a Tesla and now have a BMW. I am always surprised how important other people think the car's software is. It's an appliance with a purpose and many other make/models excel in the main purpose of a car yet people glamor over unimportant details, like how their car can play a racing game ?!

I mostly just care about the FSD. Elon said they'll upgrade older systems to HW4 or 5 so I'm mostly holding on for a big class action lawsuit.

tesla model 3 design hasn't changed since 2017 it's an outdated car

Tesla is not that cheap in Europe either, especially when you look at real range, not what Tesla claims. Here’s the test so you know what you are getting. https://ecobestchallenge.org/real-life-tests-of-the-2025-ecobest-challenge-reveal-interesting-evolutions-in-electric-mobility/ Test didn’t have Ioniq, but Hyundai Inster got 87% of stated WLTP range. Leapmotor and European cars were most true to what they promise.

welcome to the world of Tesla. for one thing, "future proofing" isn't a thing no matter who says it. When buying something, a person should be happy with the state the item is in, not what is promised in the future. that future may never come. And we know that Musk overpromises everything and his legion of Tesla stans will keep pushing what he promises. Besides, there is less incentive to add big features to older devices than to just push people to buy newer devices. This has always been the case with technology.

I mean that was just an obvious lie you fell for

Yeah I don't know if we have that one here in the states. For the most part, anything that gets similar mileage to a similar Tesla costs more and doesn't have as good of highway assist, but would love some recs that are comparable in the states for sure. Ioniq isn't even cheaper it's just not Tesla which is the main selling point for me.

I was happy with the state it was in when I bought it. I'm still happy to have it. The battery fiasco was the biggest pain of it all.

Why would this be any different for a car if it is using the same open source software under the hood?

You discovered the REALTESLA from all the propaganda fraud Tesla. Others have noticed also. But there are still fanboys out there buying this garbage.

Why does your car need Grok?

Update != upgrade, seems like team morons thought they'd get lifetime upgrades lmao. Sure you get some new features where your vehicle's sw/hw allows or more like what Tesla wants you to have. But bro here is acting like Tesla was going to retrofit all their old vehicles with new hardware everytime there's hardware revisions. FSD v13 is for HW4, if you have HW3 they likely will still improve v12 where they can but expecting any product you purchase to continually get better via updates/upgrades through its lifetime is some high level dumbassery. Corporations will continue to take advantage of dumbasses drinking the marketing material. This is not exclusive to Tesla.

Nah been aware just wanted to rant and regular Tesla subs won't allow it lol. Been familiar for many years.

In a fast moving tech world, fear of obsolescence is real. The idea that your car will remain modern and supported longer because the company had foresight to build in support/upgrade path is very compelling sales point on a car where tech can feel dated very quickly and end of life can be a death sentence. Of course it was all lies since there's no real accommodation made for upgrades. Tesla rolls in some phone professor with a little headroom and calls it upgradeable.

Class action lawsuits are a joke. Was in on one for my 2006 Honda Civic hybrid. I got $100 while the lawyers got $18,000,000. GM just payed off one as well. Not sure what people were compensated but the lawyers got most of the payout.

Also, unlike every other automaker, Tesla forces you to go through forced arbitration with the arbitrator paid by Tesla. It's in the purchase agreement. The only reason Tesla can do that is they sell direct. Ford has no relation to you directly, as the dealership is their customer, thus they can't prevent lawsuits like Tesla can. That's one of the benefits to the consumer of the dealer model.

It's obvious Tesla doesn't understand batteries, because its never manufactured its own batteries. All battery technology in production cars has been either Panasonic's or more recently CATL. Tesla's "leading technology" has always been a mirage. Any important technology has always been purchased, with the only things Tesla does itself have been infotainment and Autopilot (replacing the superior technology previously bought from MobilEye).

If you bought a Toyota with a 3G network, you would have lost some functionality. It's not just Tesla but for the most part, the car continues to work. Compared to early Teslas that used cheap tablet grade memory that failed and made it impossible to drive the car.

\-imagine you bought an iphone 13 and want iphone 16 qualities

Fine, almost 0.  A lawyer with years of time to spend on this was able to beat two lawyers.  If this becomes a template that others can follow though with very little time/cost needed then I’ll retract my statement, until then this guy is an extreme outlier.

And that was a more expensive method of catching up to what other OEMs accomplished a decade ago with much cheaper radar sensors.

It says it took "almost a year."

Looks like we have the same car. I’m relieved to find out from your post that Grok won’t hit my car

iPhone 13 does have iOS 18.5 which is what iPhone 16 is also on so...you're...dumb?

Yeah tbh I'm not going to miss Grok whatsoever it's just interesting they're just seemingly done updating the car. All other models are on OS 13 and we're permastuck to 12.

I’m also pissed as fuck that paid for FSD and now the company’s priorities are now robo taxi. They need to focus on their customers. They will/have lost any brand loyalty.

Amazing sales pitches....it seems like anything that the Cult Leader said....was picked up and repeated as fact. Of course, the real truth - as you put it - is rarely spoken. It is really an interesting take on the human condition!

Once other cars have their own versions of FSD I will never own a Tesla product again

Seriously. I legit avoid updates when I can because half of them inadvertently break something else that used to work fine!

u/mr4sh I can’t say “I expected this” but my inner feelings were always, since the start, a mix of “let’s wait another year” or “this can’t be the 100% perfect car a lot talk about”… Now in 2025, many in my surroundings parted with Tesla and I never made the move and I’m quite happy I did not ! 🤷‍♂️ Your post is all about my “inner feelings” being spot on…

I don't even regret the purchase to be honest. I paid for it with a small fraction of money I made with Tesla stock. I just love shitting on the company and Elon Musk whenever I get the chance to now. I hope that company burns. Love my car, hate the company.

Probably when it comes to highway assist, I would say Volvo has a pretty good one. Since the company is partly owned by Chinese Geely, they get a lot of advanced tech from parent company. But no idea how much more expensive Volvos are compared to Tesla over there.

Well, people are easy marks. People with disposable income are REALLY easy marks. I was taught - and also learned myself - to look at most everything with a cynical eye. That is, you first assume that what you are being told is BS....until proven otherwise. "The average Tesla owner is *an upper middle class white male*" With Tesla it seems that the particular demographic is/was the complete other way around. They truly believed Elon was going to Mars SOON. They believed 100's of tunnels would be saving all of us from traffic in major cities. Funniest of all, the believed that cars using $20 cameras were going to become level 5 autonomous vehicles. Here is a more telling - or asking - question. What percentage of current Tesla owners do y'all think believe that Level 5 Autonomy is going to be available in the car they currently have? If we were talking folks with no bias & a decent amount of information (akin to knowing what makes a gaming machine good) - what do you think? Another angle is to compare these folks with the same....except the 2nd group does not own a Tesla? We could put someone like myself into that category, although my tech experience (100% self taught) is probably in the top 10%. I put the odds of this occuring with existing Tesla cars at less than 5% (given the newest models) EVER. It's probably much lower in reality - as nothing of this sort has ever happened in history....that is, a surprise this large to the "up" side.

The Toyota will get you from Point A to Point B until the steel and aluminum and other parts wear down based on the properties of the metal. The cost per mile driven will be very low (for a car). The Tesla is one big unknown.

It means they can sell you bullshit now and never deliver on those upgrades.

o0o thanks for the reminder to look more into Volvo. My gf has a super old Volvo so maybe we'll look into one for her next car.

That’s the story of products these days, everything is improved by software updates. It’s ok for a phone, tablet, maybe gaming console, but for a big hunk of metal and plastic traveling at 75MOH, I’d rather it just be deployed and run a set of features. The tech and auto media have basically decided that OTA updates, half baked features, and giant screens instead of knobs are all OK, and you are backward if you disagree.

Yep, Nazi's hate that robo taxi is now the priority.

Slate has the right idea IMO. The truck does nothing until you plug in your phone or tablet to control everything. Hacks might unlock the door, as with any vehicle, but there's no infotainment system so there's no personal data.

My Tundra (also a hybrid) has in fact had an over the air update.

In the US Hyundai is probably your best bet. With the mustang Mach e being pretty popular as well.

I don't see why he can't just litigate this for everyone. He's a lawyer. Tesla is being lazy. Make your money going after them full throttle.

Everyone knew a tesla would be like an iphone. Every year there’s something new and new tech gets out of date very soon. This one is on you tbh.

I bought a 2019 and it’s been an amazing car. People love shitting on what they’ve never experienced. I’ve had zero maintenance in 6 years. The money I saved in gas practically paid for it. I like getting updates. Someone said why not wait until the product is finished before releasing the car….seriously? Name a car model that looks the same as it did 10 years ago? That’s right, none of them. I’ve had several dash updates and cool little tweaks along the way. I wasn’t expecting full drive anyway. I agree they are getting left behind. Musk has crashed the brand. But I have zero regrets. When people ride with me they are shocked how fast it accelerates. Stomp on the pedal and it’s long gone. Meanwhile the ice car is trying to figure out what gear to downshift in. It’s not perfect and it’s no where near the same luxury as my Lexus. But as a commuter it’s hard to beat.

Tesla does owns the battery design and formulations and spend heaps on R&D to get there, and they do have a moat here. But until very recently it didn't have the capacity to manufacture them having to hire other companies to do it in partnership to build to sell while internally training staff via knowledge transfer. But it now does have the capacity by its self in its newer giga factories.  Battery are a big deal as we really have only had a handful of mass market batteries platforms produced on this scale in the past. The problem is its a bit of a lottery as it's entirely possible some other company will design next gen battery and Tesla fails to develop next generation batteries, and it will just be completely fucked as its a battery company that sells them in car form.  Someone could make solid state, aqueous batteries, sodium replacing lithium or lithium sulphur and battery prices could drop so dramatically Tesla is just fuck, especially if it's an aqueous battery as they lead acid manufacturers would easily retool and take over.

I really don't get that. A car is there to get you from point A to point B. If it can do that? Great. If it doesn't? Why the fuck are you buying it? What part needs to be updated? All over the air update does is make sure they can over the air brick your car. All those other things you feel like you want updated, they don't matter in the end. You can get GPS on your phone in the car. You can just play audio over bluetooth. And that is really all you need. And if you REALLY REALLY REALLY want something updated in the software of your vehicle, just update it through a USB stick... it's not that difficult, people. At least then you have agency over the thing you own about if you want to update yes or no.

It’s pretty well confirmed that HW4 is coming to people who bought FSD with the car, it’ll just take a while

There was a law suite against Tesla for not delivering FSD. I am guessing, that might be a way to get your money back

That's the great part of your infotainment being from your phone (i.e. Carplay), not native to the car. You only need to update through your small relatively inexpensive device rather than update your large very expensive device.

Some parts of a car are nice to have upgraded. But most drivetrain stuff should be pretty static. Like I have a ford econoline van — pretty basic. It has never needed nor wanted a drivetrain upgrade. I specifically bought this vehicle for rural overland offroad trips because it is the evolution of decades of iterations on a very basic stable vehicle platform that hasn’t changed much since the 1990s. But the dashboard gps is pretty out of date and mostly unusable. And it did have a remote start option (dealer installed factory option), but the one fob (which is separate from the normal door fob because they had no way to link the two together) broke a while back, and is a real pain to replace because it’s bespoke and not commonly available. And whenever the tire pressure monitors detect low pressure, it’s a real pain to reset that system* because there’s no real user interface for that process, so it just always says the tires are low. * to reset the tire pressure system, there’s a special fob in the glovebox. You turn the car off, and turn the key in ignition partially on/off at a specific rhythm/pattern, and the car goes into tire pressure learning mode. And then you take that fob around to the car and hold it near each tire in a specific order, until the car beeps its horn. And then when it does that, you can go around the car tire by tire, until it relearns all the pressures. I really wouldn’t have minded…a bit more integration between the various vehicle systems. But at the cost of a stable vehicle, I tolerate the slow update pace.

Dawg people still buy Volkswagens and BMW’s, you’ll be fine

Nothing in technology is "finished." It's just time to ship. It can always be improved, and some features just didn't make the cutoff date, so OTA updates are a great feature. I find it wild that for (some, at least) other cars you have to take your care in for software changes. The problem, as OP states, is that the updates outstrip the hardware at some point, locking you in time, just as with computers. Apparently functional windshield wipers will be coming in version $NEXT\_UPGRADE.

Maybe. It definitely feels like an asshole mobile now

I definitely sympathize with you. The reality is that electric cars are not cars as we know them but large pieces of consumer electronics like laptops and phones and irrespective of what their manufacturers claim they are going to go through rapid cycles of obsolescence for at least a decade and maybe 2 decades until the tech matures and suddenly they are no longer iterating rapidly. This basically happened with all digital technology. Ultimately you get to fully optimized hardware firmware and software but it all takes time. Along the way you need your supplier to have integrity. For me Apple have integrity and so do Fujifilm. I basically trust them. I could be mistaken of course but that is how u feel about those companies. I feel much the same way about Toyota. Again this could be misplaced but I feel that way after a long history or driving their cars. One of the things Tesla did is sell a car based on a set of existing or upcoming tech features which is not how cars were traditionally sold. Elon has overpromised the feature set of the cars, we call this vapourware when applied to the computer industry. The question is, is the car worth its money based on its existing feature set not in what was promised. At the very least everyone who paid for FSD should be refunded.

To be fair, solid state batteries have perpetually been "a couple of years" away like practical fusion reactors. If a car (any car) is hitting the market in 2 years, there'd already be highly camouflaged test mules, etc. spotted driving around.

They don't only sell cars....

He's always been a fucking nazi idiot. Legacy media did fuck all to report on it.

Yep, the tech is largely a distraction from the fact the underlying workings haven't really advanced much in 10 years

Did you, in writing, within 30 days of buying the car opt out of forced arbitration? If not, then there won’t be any class action lawsuit.

Still running software version 2022. "bought this before he went crazy" (crazier and open about it)

I like the idea of the Slate. The lack of an infotainment system does considerably lower the surface of attack as well as nearly eliminate the potential theft of PII. But many vehicles are coming with wireless connectivity because it creates a platform for data monetization, remote control, safety features, and post-sale revenue. Slate has not stated if anything like that will be included, but I hope not. The computer systems in even a Slate could potentially be hijacked to do unexpected acceleration or braking because computers control those functions. So... If there is any remote connectivity, it still needs updates. --- # Why Car Manufacturers Add Cellular Connectivity I removed ones I think are not relevant to Slate. 1. Data Monetization Fact: Manufacturers can collect real-time driving data—location, speed, routes, maintenance status, infotainment use, and more. Purpose: Sell anonymized data to ***insurers*** (Google this), city planners, advertisers, and other third parties. Skeptical lens: Many owners have no clear way to opt out, and “anonymized” data can often be re-identified. 2. Software Updates & Feature Control (Over-the-Air) This is still relevant to Slate because the computer controlled acceleration, braking, charging, and other functions may need software fixes. Push firmware and map updates, fix bugs, or add features post-sale. Tesla pioneered this model; now GM, Ford, BMW, etc. are following. Also allows remote disabling or adding features (e.g., heated seats) as a subscription. > Implication: Your car may be sold to you incomplete—and then rented back piece by piece. 3. Remote Vehicle Management This seems unlikely for Slate, but maybe? Lock/unlock, remote start, track location, find parking spots. Useful for fleet vehicles, parents, rental companies, or individual users. 4. Safety & Emergency Services Automatic crash reporting (eCall in Europe, OnStar in the US). Theft recovery, breakdown assistance. > This was one of the earliest public-facing justifications for cellular modules. 5. Subscription Services & In-Car Apps Not a Slate thing. 6. Financing and Repossession LoJack like features have been added to facilitate repossession. For real. Many automakers have their own built-in tracking: OnStar (GM), FordPass, Uconnect (Stellantis), Hyundai Bluelink, etc. These often allow location tracking, geofencing, and immobilization. Some automakers have licensed or mimicked LoJack-style services (e.g., GM uses cellular/GPS to help recover stolen cars via OnStar). But some are beginning to use this tech in other ways: Remote Disabling, Tracking, & Geofencing Subprime vehicles may come with GPS trackers or kill switches as a condition of financing. Ford patent (2023): proposed a system to remotely repossess or disable vehicles (e.g., auto-drive the car to a repo lot). No full public registry, but: Tesla and other EV makers have location-aware systems that theoretically could be used for repossession, though few admit to doing so. GM’s OnStar Guardian can track and immobilize vehicles (usually for safety/theft). Stellantis Uconnect and FordPass offer similar tracking. Hyundai Bluelink has GPS and remote lock/unlock. Aftermarket repo tech is used widely by subprime lenders—estimated in millions of vehicles. Some used car dealers won’t finance without a GPS/kill switch device. Why does this matter? Privacy: Drivers are rarely informed how much data is collected or shared. [There are many real world examples of data being sold to insurance companies, causing people's rates to go up. ](https://share.google/4V5BLZgqDZ3K9chh9) Security: Some cars have been remotely hacked due to insecure connected systems. Surveillance creep: Once embedded, these systems could be accessed by law enforcement or private actors. Who’s being tracked? Everyone. Especially those in subprime financing situations, but increasingly all drivers, whether they know it or not.

We had a 2018 Camry before we got our Tesla. On the Camry to get the upgraded interior we wanted we also had to pay for a $2500 “Entune” package. About six months after we bought it Toyota decided to brick the feature and our only option was to pay another $500 for a dealer to install either Apple CarPlay or Google Auto. We will never buy another Toyota after getting roasted on that. OTA updates aren’t the problem- Musk is choosing to limit certain features to only the most recent models by choice. It’s not that difficult to modify software to accommodate different chip architectures. Imagine if Microsoft decided to only release windows updates to Intel chips.

I wonder if the easy possibility of over the air update enables a software developing process faster but more prone to bugs...

I don't trust Toyota as far as I can throw them, and the reason is the first-year BZ4X. Fast charging limited to like 50kW, further limited to like once a day? And upgraded or corrected never? Fuck, and I cannot stress this enough, FUCK that. Makes the shittiest Tesla look brilliant.

Laughing in my 2015 S with just one Autopilot camera and hardly any new features...

Hmmmmm not sure “became”, he most likely always was. All other points are valid though.

sounds like you have a valid claim on your hands. and that was shocking re the battery, you don't get a new one just some old one that's not broken yet? poor form here. I'll avoid Tesla forever.

Yeah the battery situation is bad. When people get battery replacement for other car brands, it's a 100% new battery and that's because those manufacturers don't believe they can reliably detect flaws or damage. But Tesla does believe it can and so you don't get a new battery

My model 3 is worth 5 blueberries and a walnut now. God help me if it breaks.

Elon lies.

companies which produce goods are now trying to create cash flow from services associated with that sold good.

arent you still waiting for tesla to have its own version of FSD?

I mean, I never expected to be upgraded for free, or even as a paid upgrade. When Toyota came up with the Prius Plugin four years after I bought my Prius 3, I didn't expect for Prius to offer me a way to upgrade to that model. It's the same with my Tesla 3: I wholly expected it to be out of date in 2 years when they release a new HW version. The problem is that I think a lot of people see Teslas as software packages rather than hardware packages. If someone was advertising to you a free upgrade, they were lying out their ass to get you to buy (probably Musk, but I certainly didn't see it when I bought), or they were talking about Leases. While I think there are serious flaws that might be corrected in future HW versions, I do not care. I don't trust FSD in HW version because it has a single point of failure. Musky boy removing LIDAR as a backup was the worst decision he ever made for the company. It should have been expanded, not deleted. When my Tesla is paid off in 3-4 years, I might swap out to a new EV that isn't Tesla that has LIDAR. Idk, that's so far down the line. I still got a long way to go.

haha totally, but I'm also waiting for other companies to be able to do what FSD can do now to some degree or another that is satisfying (and still waiting for Tesla as well lol)

“Became” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there… sorry you were a victim of marketing. Musk was always horrible.

Eh, "well confirmed" like the Semi is well confirmed or the robotaxi or the robot, what's the point if it takes so long to arrive that I don't get any benefit from it lol

>a lot of people see Teslas as software packages rather than hardware packages. One of those people is F-Elon

Yeah, I think he does. Idk what he thinks, really. He's so stupidly random.

Do you upgrade your iPhone OS when they release updates?

It’s a chesply built electric car, with little of the ”car” part. You shouldn’t be using Tesla driving assists anyway, as they are dodgy and unsafe. Why would you want Grok on the car?

> COOL UPGRADED FOR LIFE VEHICLE! Also, huge cherry on top that the CEO became an absolute fucking nazi idiot. Something something, no offense, any rational person could have seen that coming a mile away... I mean if you love the car it's all good, but yea.. *upgrades* for life, thats not how technology works.

If I have to. My car however came fully functioning and I get an update every half year that’s bringing me new chargers to the navigation system, that’s enough. My Tesla wanted one every week (which is especially annoying since my car is parked underground without WiFi) and I was driving around hardware that didn’t work like the matrix headlights while others just sell their headlights fully developed.

And when they try, they fail at both.

Trying to be all things to all people is a recipe for failure. Move quickly and break things is a bad principle for an automaker where moves are at risk. He is a moron. Maybe worlds best

I will never understand wanting an internet connection tied to your car. My (over 20y/o) cars came out feature-complete and haven't had/need a single update from the day I bought them. the *only* thing I changed was adding bluetooth so I could get music, navigation, etc. from my phone into the car's audio system. My phone will *always* have newer maps, better navigation, and be easier to use with the car just receiving said info from it. When the day comes that I need to replace one of my cars, the first thing I'll be doing is disabling the cellular / data services on the new one. I get annoyed enough when android or windows forces an update down your throat & moves things around on you for no good reason, last thing I want is for the same crap to happen to my car. Not to mention the giant security concerns of having your car connected to the internet 24/7 to begin with.

Prius Prime / PHEV. Gets 45 mi on the electric, then switches on the fly to hybrid gas drive. You can’t get caught out and you don’t have to pay attention and you don’t need some branded charger. Charges off a standard household plug, costs $34k. Really fun car too.

Surely at the time, when you bought your car there were talks of HW4 vs HW3. There was a way for you to navigate knowing new hardware was coming out by waiting. By getting a performance model 3 you 4 years ago, you still have an insane car compared to 99% of ICE vehicles and a large percentage of new EV’s. Lastly though, never expect technology to not progress????? Kind of confused by this sentiment

Nope at the time it was guaranteed that HW3 would work with full FSD and if not would be retrofitted but that language changed over time. And no, I think you're misunderstanding a lot of what I'm saying and no worries as I don't really feel the need to explain further but thank you!

[deleted]

You have a case for getting a full refund for FSD. I believe you’ll need to go through arbitration, but there have been successful cases where owners have gotten a full refund and attorneys fees. No guarantee, but worth a thought.

Once you’ve turned on lane centering and radar distancing and cruise control, and if you want it, traffic jam assist, the driver does very little. Teslas a braggart company that delivers 10% of what they claim, Toyotas been underselling this car by a mile. Also this vehicle is made in the Japanese factory and its construction is impeccablely tight. You won’t hear a rattle. How’s your “computer on wheels” working for ya?Because from this post it kinda sounds like you hate it.

Once you learn HOW MUCH ENERGY each stupid question/meme/whatever uses, it's even more reason not to use AI regardless of its fascist slant or not

cobweb theory support marry mysterious decide marble coherent history provide *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

If you want a laugh, go back and watch Battery Day.

Eh, I'd say most EVs are ballpark slightly worse, some are about the same, and like a tiny fraction that are noticeably more range. Production issues aside, Lucid's tech is actually cracked.

Lol

Now you know how Nazi’s think and sucker you in. Sorry about that. He started out as an innovator but became a turncoat you can’t trust.

I’m so glad every day that I waited for hw4 I hear fsd is really really rough on hw3

Teslas , especially the 3 & Y, are enticing initial offers (for the equivalent performance) options if one’s so inclined to only consider the BEVs. Most owners keep theirs on average for 4 years, due to the unprotected costly repairs (after the warranty runs out). The after sales service is hardly a passing grade, TBH. The arrival of the Chinese EVs, inevitable in the next five years, will take the better initial pricing (especially with the federal incentives gone this September) apparent advantage out of the Tesla sales equation. I own a model 3 however unlikely to be a repeat buyer of Tesla when my warranty expires. Overpromise and underdeliver, thy name is Tesla!

I remember during the early PC days- they told you all you would have to do is upgrade your processor as the newest ones came out, that the rest would not be absolute...

I was quite relived when I learned Grok would not be coming to my vehicle.

You can get your FSD money. [https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-owner-scores-rare-arbitration-victory-forcing-the-carmaker-to-reimburse-useless-fsd-254083.html](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-owner-scores-rare-arbitration-victory-forcing-the-carmaker-to-reimburse-useless-fsd-254083.html)

I’m not a tech wizard I don’t have a Tesla but I know one thing his house of cards is gonna fall

Fads come and go

lol this is a fun read

Microsoft trained us that this is okay.

I wouldn’t be too upset about not getting Grok

[https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/955/563/086.jpg](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/955/563/086.jpg)

Tesla wanted to be a software company so much they forgot that cars still need car things. Like wheels and doors and body panels and steering that actually work.

Soon you’ll buy a toothbrush that stops working unless you renew your monthly membership.

The current valuation wouldn't be justified even if they were able to corner the FSD market (and there is zero indication they could do it).

Tesla used 18650 batteries from the beginning lol. Basically a hundred laptop batteries from the early 2000s strung together.

You buying a car or a microwave?

lol, the plan was to get you to upgrade every two years like your phone. The fact that he doesn’t allow 3rd party repairs is everything you need to know.

Could get a law firm on contingency but they’ll take a hefty percentage. Though anything is better than nothing. Tesla would prob just settle anyway.

To be fair, Musk probably didn't expect his car to last that long..... You might still be able make a profit if you let people hit your Tesla with a sledgehammer for a dollar.

Get a lawyer and sue tesla. That is your only recourse.

Microsoft, are you listening?* (XP SP2 is the only OS they ever really finished and got the bugs out of, and that was only because they were unable to deliver Longhorn at all and they had to do something for the business customers.) *Of course they aren't listening. 🤦

>"The average Tesla owner is *an upper middle class white male*" A liberal as well, that was willing to spend more on a vehicle in the hopes of doing good in the world. Then the boy genius got the bright idea to throw his lot in with Trump, go out of his way to piss off liberals, and undermine his own target demographic. What an amazing business plan. 🤦

Lol, what other computer software that runs on fixed hardware would you ever think will get upgrades for life ? If we want to 'Stonk' it, RAM goes up!

Ya the gains on Tesla are more or less done now. Has been up and down since 2021 but overall flat. Good to get in early like you did. Take your gains and look at some of the other EV available. You have some time to find the next car. I know a hard core conservative that bought a Tesla in December last year. And he bought a great deal of Tesla shares at somewhere over that 400 dollar mark. He believed Tesla was going to double and pay for the car. I hate to see where he is at now.

Don't give them ideas...

So many better options out there if you want better/newer technology. Tesla tech is ancient.

> What percentage of current Tesla owners do y'all think believe that Level 5 Autonomy is going to be available in the car they currently have? Quite a few of these naive fools bought specifically because they thought they would be able to imminently send their car out overnight to Robotaxi. Elon Musk even famously said that it would be an appreciating asset on the Lex Fridman podcast (another midwit larping as a genius): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEv99vxKjVI

That's a nice wish you have there.

Yeah? Where’s Elons at?

Every dollar you made off Tesla stock made Elon the man he is today. Then you just gave him free money buying that x. Might as well just wear Tesla shirts as your identity now.

I mean, I can’t find anything about getting upgrades for life, ever. If you got the car four years ago, you should’ve known about [this lawsuit](https://electrek.co/2022/12/12/tesla-ordered-upgrade-self-driving-computer-for-free-false-advertising/) on how they were forced to update computers on cars for free due to their false advertisement and wanting to charge $1100 for labor. Either way, hate them for the right reasons lol

4 years ago was awfully late to still be believing in those things. Caveat emptor

How little did you pay for your Tesla? And just how much do you drive? The average American spends $2800 /yr on gasoline. You've had your car for six years. That would be just under $17000 in fuel savings assuming you never paid a penny for electric charging. Are you saying that $17k in fuel savings paid for your Tesla? Even if you were spending double, that doesn't add up.

I regard treating cars as a software platform is a terrible idea. I'm rooting for the Slate truck, though I'll never buy one, as its not infected with coder cancer. Slate follows up with a reliable subcompact, and I'd be interested.

> Soon, Grok is coming out, which should be quite easy to make available to everyone, but because AMD processors started later in the year, they're making that a requirement so I won't get that. I am a daily ChatGPT and Claude user, both for personal and work tasks, why would I want my car to have a generative LLM? Like why not just use my phone?

> Grok is coming out, which should be quite easy to make available to everyone, but because AMD processors started later in the year, they're making that a requirement so I won't get that. That’s a plus, no? When you ride with Grok, you ride with MechaHitler.

> I mostly just care about the FSD. It’s never going to happen regardless of which Tesla you have.

Let me clarify. I paid cash but saved enough gas per month to make car payments if there were any. I was spending 4 to 500 a month on gas. Plus you save on all the oil changes etc. But you are correct, the savings hasn’t paid for the whole car but staring to get close. Musk has killed the brand so bad it’s not worth much, I’ll probably drive it until it bricks out lol

What EV do you plan on getting that has Grok and FSD?

> He started out as an innovator When was that?

So you made money off the nazi. Sounds like karma is biting your ass

lol! I mean it’s the same concept as your iPhone. The processor keeps improving and more and more features keep getting added. Naturally people upgrade after 3-4 years. The cost of the vehicle has come down and they allow FSD transfer. Maybe instead of bitching, you should upgrade your vehicle to avail the features you want 🤣

When you buy the car you're forced to sign a contract saying you can't sue and need to go through their own arbitration process.

Musk’s smarmy politics aside for a moment, we should give him creidt for his persistent building of an electric car company and a commercial space company at a time when no one dared to do it. Unfortunately he’s fallen into a K-hole.

He bought it and made it worse from the very start.

Sounds like you got a lemon. My Tesla is awesome.

This is why I believe stupid BS marketing shit like “software is eating the world” is not true. A car is NOT a fucking computer on wheels. It’s supposed to last 20+ years and move people around, not for 4 years and record 360 degree dashcam footage for no apparent reason.

You should checkout the byd seal excellence. A worthy competitor to the model 3

Because that would cost more. All carmakers andbasically anything software sends out broken stuff to be fixed later

Still dont get how Tesla are not forced to refund for a product they never delivered in FSD. My 2016 MS was sold with autopilot. Everyone laughs at how totally incapable that hardware is now, but it was sold saying it will soon drive itself, and we now know that's a lie. The product was paid for and not delivered. Has any other company in history gotten away with that?

Euro boys on their best behaviour after they got burned badly in the emissions stuff. They won't want a repeat of that.

My Kia EV6 has a lot of this too. On the motorway it can pop on lane keep, centering, radar cruise and it will also read the speed limit signs. So when our "smart" motorways are changing their speed every gantry, the car just sorts it out. All you have to do is keep a hand on the wheel. Its the absolute business for traffic jams, you basically just sit and the car does all the inching for you!

Not sure what the problem is. Obviously you won’t be getting every single new feature in an update, but you are still getting updates. I have a MacBook Pro from 2020, I still receive updates on that, but I can’t play some of the different newer games, such as Assassin’s Creed on it because I don’t have the right processor, same thing with the cars.

😂 indeed

I’m in the same boat you are, love our Model X and nose-coned Model S, both bought new (pre-Musk-Nazification purchase year is now very important) and paid for, love the cars (falcon wing troubles and all), hate the Nazi. So glad we ditched our reservation for the Wankpanzer before he got involved in politics. Won’t even buy knock off Tesla toy cars, even though they are readily available online here. Will most likely never buy another Tesla, which is a shame, because I really like the Model 3 but, again, hate the Nazi.

This is just not true. Teslas are still the most efficient EVs you can buy. Any real world test shows exactly this. They regularly beat cars with way larger batteries. There is only one Tesla this isn't true about, the Cybertruck, which is a shitty car in many aspects. People, especially in this sub, really like to talk about the WLTP numbers, like it is some kind of gotcha. It's a standardized test cars have to submit to, it's not a number Elon gets to make up. Unless you can produce proof that Tesla is reporting wrong test results (which could be the case, but seems unlikely), you really don't have a leg to stand on. The only thing you can say right now is that the WLTP test isn't that great at determining real world range. Let's be real, "Tesla exaggerates WLTP range" is just a talking point. If you need a long range car, your best bet is still a Tesla. There are cars with a longer range, but they cost considerably more. Only premium cars with considerably larger batteries are able to beat Tesla in the real world range game, so now you know.

Let me get this right... You're complaining that your 4 year old car, that was first sold 8 years ago isn't getting every update available? Now you think about buying a car from a legacy car company where you get basically no updates? I get the Elon hate, it's well deserved. I get wanting to buy a car from a different company. I stopped recommending Teslas about a year ago, because of Elon, and not because my Model 3 isn't the best car I've ever driven. Even though I plan to drive my car for another 5 years I dread buying a regular car again. I will have to pay more to get less in many aspects I really care about. You get half a point for complaining about FSD, cause you are right about that, but that's it.

Never buy promises, just buy facts (works for car, tech in general and even game or other software products) Your car isn't self driving ? Assume it never will be.

I’d say most EV’s are no longer slightly worse. It’s actually moving the other direction in a a hurry.

Why do you bother. WLTP is the way to measure cars performance, it’s actually astonishing that such big differences don’t cause a bigger scandal. When VW fudged numbers in ICE results, that caused huge uproar. Also Ecobest is as real world as it gets.

It was evident Musk was completely full of shit well over 4 years ago, this is on you.

WLTP is one way of measuring a cars performance, it's not the only way. Now are you trying to say that Tesla is cheating the test? Then provide proof, because if they do, that would make quite the headline. If you are trying to say that Tesla lies about their WLTP numbers, again provide proof, but I find this scenario unlikely. Now if Tesla doesn't cheat and doesn't lie, reports the correct numbers and the real world result is off by that much, I would claim that the WLTP isn't a good way to determine range. There was a test done by a Norwegian publication (I think) last winter with a similar premise and headline. The consensus was that Tesla was off by 23 % and that was bad. After looking at the test results instead of the reports about the test I found the following: - most cars were off by 15 - 25 percent, one car was only off by 5% (polestar 3) and one car was off by 32 % (some Chinese model), but those were outliers. - the Tesla drove the furthest, only the polestar reached a similar range, but that's car has a 40 % larger battery and costs 70 % more. - the Tesla reported a realistic range during the drive, unlike some other cars who were off by more than 100 km (over- and underestimating) at their worst. That's my reasoning for arguing that the WLTP is to blame and not Tesla. I don't know anything about Ecobest, I also don't claim that their tests are bad. I tried finding the results of the test you mentioned, but couldn't find anything, only reports about the test itself. So if you could post the link to the test, I can look further into it.

Tesla broke open the EV market. Thank you Elon for that. But the design is like they took a ICE automobile and reverse engineered it into an EV. Now it's time to start from scratch and design a forward leaning ev.

If it’s not on the car at launch it’s best not to hinge your bets on it.

Actually, they used about 7,000 of those cells per battery pack

Why did you bother to even type that blather if you don’t know Ecobest tests. They are summer tests, and WLTP is summer range. And yes, WLTP is supposed to be both realistic and comparable among cars. It used to be typical that most cars got ~20% off their WLTP statement. Now most cars are off by ~10%. So Tesla not getting up to date with others is kinda significant. But they can, because there are people like you to explain it away.

Yeah you got a swastiscar for life

Software is never finished. I for one very much like the fact that my 5 year old Y is still getting some updates. Obviously it won't go indefinitely, but I'm not sour about this.

I loved my Xc40 recharge. Returned it at lease end and got a Rivian R1T which I love even more. R2 next year will be a game changer. Also I’ve found my Rivian range to be accurate, not so much on the Volvo but maybe that’s changed.

Nothing screams we didn’t really have a plan more than saying we’re going to add FSD to your car in the future followed by oh right we discovered the hardware was never capable so it’s been changed in new cars and you’ll never get it in yours. Why do people keep falling for this obvious grift?

Soon your car will be able to be an excellent source of passive income, earning money for you while you sleep.

lolll

Agree entirely. To be fair, Tesla offering software updates is how they manage to offer cars that have missing or broken functionality they hopefully deliver later- auto wiper fixes and rear cross traffic warning for example. In some cases allow them to support different regions with the similar hardware. An example is enabling matrix headlights on Canada/US cars when they became legal. Not saying they nail it, just that it makes it a bit more palatable IMO.

Sue in small claims court, you will win.

Who buys an EV and drives max range and sits for hours to charge back up and do it again, etc. Stop every hour or two, charge for 10-15 mins, go to the restroom, and range will not look like such a big deal.

Basically take every Musk statement on Tesla to court and sue. They might be able to find some true statements but the bulk of the claim should stick.

They might be more efficient but they are loosing out by keeping 400v charging. I just plugged a lr m3 into ABRP for a ~1000 mile trip and a lr awd I5 for the same trip. The o5 was faster not because it charged less but its stops were faster.

My car simply doesn’t need upgrades because it’s just a car and not a computer. It does a great job at being a car.

Ding ding ding. And the best indicator here is "lifetime" always means within the warranty period. So they likley did infact get upgrades for life unless they never drove the car. Only an idiot would be surprised their car can't be perpetually upgraded forever.

Actually, the Toyota will get you from A to B until the engine control computer dies. Assuming routine maintenance, the mechanical bits will last far longer than the electronics. Which isn't to say the Toyota won't keep running for 20 years or more, since it probably will.

Who said you would get upgraded for life? I think you’re mistaking updates and upgrades. I have a 2018 and get updates all the time with new features. FSD is way better. No they won’t “upgrade” your 4 year old car with new hardware. AI takes a large amount of processing which your computer won’t do. Were you promised AI 4 years ago or you just feel entitled to get a brand new computer because they new cars have it? Also you didn’t lose 30 miles of range, your computer just correctly adjusted to actual range after a new battery calibration and you needed something else to cry about after you got something else for free.

A car company ran like a tech company and you didn't think you'd have to upgrade every few years? hahahahahahahahahahahah

Happy for you

My 2023 ID4 is estimated to get about 3.2-3.4 mi/kWh, and I regularly average 3.8-4.0 mi/kWh over my work week. I do drive conservatively, and I live in Seattle so I get a boost from regen quite a bit from the hilly terrain and altering my commute to and from work to include as much downhill as possible, but it’s still better than I originally planned to get. Maybe I’m a fringe case, maybe the estimates are always lower, but so far that has been my real world experience.

Yeah, when I finally was in a place to electrify last month, I was sad that Tesla was morally not an option for me anymore. Because as much as I hate the man, I love the look for the new M3/MY that have been coming out, but couldn’t stomach buying even a used one. I love my ID4 though so I don’t feel like I lost out on too much.

It also happens in Windows, my not that old laptop cannot run Windows 11.

Quip sorta does this.

Tesla has a history of bending the truth or engineering for the test and not real life conditions. Teslas consistently do worse than other companies on ‘real world’ range compared to advertised range. They (Musk specifically) had a history of touting the safety of autopilot in the earlier days before it became clear they were comparing Tesla’s autopilot highway only miles vs human driver city street and highway miles. Teslas do very well on safety tests (safety tests only measure very specific scenarios) despite having some of the highest fatality rates of any manufacturer. Then there’s all the lies about FSD being a year away for the last several years, the lies about their vehicles from 5+ years ago having the hardware ready for FSD, Model 2, expectations/specs/price for cybertruck, etc etc. Like the saying goes, “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me over and over and over again…..”

You drive downhill both ways?

I do my best 🤣 lol no, the way home I use the freeway which I avoid on my way to work. It might even out in the end no matter which route I took but it appears to be helping with overall efficiency.

Is it even legal to replace your original battery for even worse one? Is it same model but the battery is just degraded?

Upgrade for vehicle life** *Milage may vary * Until we want to sell you a new car Any propper buisness model can only work woth selling new stuff after a time to allready bound customers. 4-5 years facorry waranty was never heard of in 2010 in europe until korean cars started with that including satnav uodates Vag started to adopt in certain countirs and now we have 5 years 100tkm as 300€ Option Take phones smsung only had 2-3 versions at best on s models, that gotbbetter and a pixel has now up to 5 android versions Its a good direction but for life has to end some where

Upgrades for the life of the vehicle… not your life. You sound ridiculous thinking eventually your car would also fly with those *expectations!! 🤦🏽‍♂️

Because Tesla is a scam and elon is a fraud. Most of their profits come from government handouts

lol that needs to be a tshirt

I feel like if you’re buying tech you need to be prepared to be on a 5 year lifecycle. The more computers and computer components the faster things are gonna suck.

That's why I leased my Tesla 😛

Cars aren't PCs. Why would anyone expect constant upgrades?

This is what I don't understand how it's legal but yes they replaced my battery with like 290 miles left of range with one that only had like 267 miles of range

You are not alone. Just wait until people in Hardware 4 also find out they cannot run a more complete version of FSD in a couple of years time.

100%

Chevy sells very nice EV pickups.. not lame dorky cyber trucks...with 470 mile range for less than a Ford gas pickup... and way less than the Cybertruck.. Tesla is toast.

I get to pay you to beta test your product? Sign me up!!!!!

I have an EV (not Tesla) I bought new in 2014. I learned in the first 6 months of ownership it is a computer on wheels. Software upgrades and a battery replacement were the precursor to no support after a few years. Same business model as Apple and Microsoft.

Hey, you're doing pretty good yours is obsolete after 4 years. Mine is barely 2 years old, and it is obsolete, bought it at the worst possible time, after they removed the ultrasonic sensors, and before they started rolling out HW4 :(

Tesla will survive due to large number of Indians in USA. 1/3 Indians is driving Tesla now

People were telling me this in 2019 as a huge reason why they bought a 210-mile Model 3.

What’d you expect buying a car built using the Agile methodology?

Yea what you are saying is patently false. Lucid has far and away the most efficient drivetrain, and weight to power ratio. They run at a higher voltage. Not to mention modular cells that are basically drop in replaceable. If they pull that off in their midsize at a decent price, they will take off.

STFU

Wrong, on so very many fronts. Its battery control modules, cooling, inverter technology, motor design, aerodynamics, high speed redundant computer systems, regenerative braking, the list goes on. Basically all EVs today are using slight variations of the same commercially available battery cells because they can be manufactured in large quantities cheaply enough. What you are describing is basically a carnival "smash-em up" go-cart. Getting anything over 200 mile range without "loading the boat" full of batteries is the trick. Higher performing batteries are too expensive to manufacture, and whoever does figure out how to do it (cough cough Panasonic), or military funded 20 year gov project, is probably going to sell them to everybody to make as much profit as possible. The idea that EV companies are hiring the best chemists in the world and will win this race is laughable.

How is it obsolete? Does it not drive any more? It’s a car, you don’t need elons gay ai

As an owner of the refreshed m3p, you have my sympathy. I waited until they fixed it. The downside is I bought the month before the full nazi, but I definitely was aware the ketamine stimulants were his soul.

you can sue for a refund now and get it. someone just did and won because of this stuff

Source?

https://electrek.co/2025/07/07/tesla-forced-reimburse-full-self-driving-arbitration-failing-deliver/ Tesla was forced to reimburse Full Self-Driving in arbitration after failing to deliver | Electrek edit: hope this helps!

Thanks! I probably won't pursue because the guy who sued actually commented "It may be likely that this case could serve as a roadmap for people who had a similar situation, that they paid for full self driving, we’re subjected to the safety score, then got rid of the car before they were cleared by the safety score, or later, when Tesla remove the safety score requirements." So I'd have to fail a safety score and sell the car and then sue for the cost of FSD but even then I might not win because it's easier to get your punishment wiped more quickly now on bad safety scores and also I'd lose a chance at any lawsuits that require continued ownership of the car. This guy was a professional in arbitration and he got lucky but it's not precedent for other cases to win. I do appreciate you showing the source though so I have better context now.

innocent brave party rob piquant tease encourage soft marvelous rustic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

So Telsa made it impossible to return something that never worked... that sucks... I wish you the best and hope everyone figures a way out of this tesla abyss. my hopes are in the fact that a city municipality just banned tesla's due to their horrible safety record. I dont think Tesla will be around in 5 years due to the mismanagment and reduction in quality since Musk took over.

best of luck!!!!

Nah the cars are fine enough and safe, it's the software that's hugely dangerous. I'd be fine with them getting banned though haha

The modern day opposite of "we walked to school! Uphill! Both ways! In the rain! In the snow!"

I am the same. I was definitive about going full electric with a Tesla and then I realized Elon was morally bankrupt and I changed my mind. Now shopping the alternatives and the choices are overwhelming

there are massive quality issues that result in parts falling off and numerous people have died in car fires because the hooky door mechanism failed. its a death trap edit: here is a source https://futurism.com/the-byte/four-die-trapped-burning-tesla Four Passengers Die in Burning Tesla After Electronic Doors Seemingly Won't Open https://www.tesla-fire.com/ https://jordanlaw.com/blog/tesla-car-battery-fires-understanding-your-legal-rights/ Tesla Car Battery Fires: Understanding Your Legal Rights | Jordan Law

Teslas were sold the subscription model — basically you keep paying while the Nazi wants money….

Yes it sucks for people who don't know how to open the doors mechanically for sure but these are just anecdotes not statistics measured against other types of car accidents

The competition has long surpassed Tesla now. Check out the Cadillac Optiq. So much better than any Tesla offering. Refined. Quiet. Fabulous ride. Superior self driving imo. And the Dolby Atmos sound system is amazing. And the wipers don’t wipe in bright sunshine like my teslas did.

Calling Elon a Nazi is an absolute insult to people who’ve been hurt by actual Nazis.

*laughs in 2010 Corolla with 140k miles and no issues*

its not that they dont know how. the mechanism fail completly and you cannot escape. Tesla uses a novel door mechanism which is unproven and results in deaths. no other car manufacturer in the world uses the system in tesla's and you never will because its too unsafe. you will thus never have any statistic to compare to other vehicles.

The electric system fails. There's still a mechanical system it's just not everyone seems to be aware of it. And you certainly can compare statistics lol. You just don't see it because it's not interesting or profound because there's nothing significant there.

Tesla better hope to pivot to an autonomous taxi company because the legacy car makers are or have caught up, and Teslas are nothing special. BYD can already out produce them and deliver better cars. The charging network was a nice benefit but they’ve opened that up and if EVs actually remain viable and grow as a market, charging will become a commodity just like gas stations are. As a model y owner, I can’t wait to ditch it for a BMW or Lexus EV.

If you had actually paid attention you would have heard people telling you this four years ago, more or less. The urge to believe turns that part of a person’s brain off though. Think back. Way back. Someone you know, maybe the biggest jerk you hang out with, maybe the guy who mows your lawn, maybe your dad, someone …he warned you about at least half this stuff. Remember?

How is Musk a nazi? Curious to hear your explanation based on facts.

Trump gives lots of money to the AFD in Germany for one...

Tesla is on the fast track to irrelevance and have been for several years. The Germans make better EVs. The Americans and Japanese make cheaper EVs. There is no point in Tesla, unless you value the “Tesla” badge. And, unfortunately for Elon, that badge has been dragged through mud over the last few years.

There are some great options! I love VW personally but I also considered getting an Ioniq 5 if I didn’t find an ID4 in my price range (I was buying used)

3 and Y should be equipped with 100kW batteries that will leave you with 77-80kW capacity eventually. Anything less simply doesn't work.

My god. A whole lot of nonsense. Guys, keep massaging each other’s prostatas while the rest of us enjoy the best EV out there.

FYI the Chinese fired the Swedish team so it's a Volvo only in name now and whatever is carried forward. I assume they did this so they didn't have to carry forward the "Volvo" dna. People need to be aware about all these European car companies that turned Chinese but kept the name to fool people. MG is another one. I believe Mercedes is now majority owned by Chinese.

What did that song say " Ya gotta get up ta get down"?

It works for stupid gamers so why not try for stupid gamers who drive.

Buy a new car and stfu

The Ioniq line is nice. Charge infrastructure sucks in my area or I would have gone that route.

Ok then..Best genius con man nazi award.

That’s why leasing Tesla is the best option

You sound like a real peach

Forced "upgrades" are always annoying. No way to use older versions, no way to opt-out of being a beta tester for features that are making us less safe.

Whats a nazi?

I heard that tesla is releasing an aluminum based battery in 2025 that will last a lifetime. True or just bs?

Wow! They really ARE the iPhones of EVs

Robotaxi is FUD also. There is not enough market there to support a special design low-cost platform. If Robotaxi does take more market, it is going to be by stealing market from their existing line. RT is a shell game. Prototype a low cost platform. Combine that with new compute architecture. Slip out FSD that works without getting sued by existing customers that already paid for FSD.

*joins the chorus with 2015 Sierra with 210k miles and a gas bill lower than new Tesla auto insurance.

If that happened in Europe the consumer laws would fuck Tesla up.

So your argument is that it would be better to buy a car that can’t be OTA upgraded at all with new features? Makes sense.

If you check Sacramento County small claims court for a lawsuit filed in 2024, you will see that Tesla was ordered to refund the plaintiff's FSD purchase plus interest in 2025 for Breach of contract.

Can't be used as precedent though right?

well the HW thing, depends a bit on country and laws. Afaik the EU has fisted Tesla before for making claims that the HW2 (or whichever) would be enough for FSD, and then later saying it wasn't enough. So they had to free retrofit. Why you would want mechahitler in your car, no idea. But to each their own. and the rest, yeah agree with you. It sucks

Not if you drive on the highway. That range depletes so fast. It’s so bad. #experience

I ended up going with a 2023 Nissan Ariya Platinum+ e4orce. Only had it 6 days now. So still getting used to it

I don't believe small claims court sets a precedent. However, if you search the case, you will gain information about how it was won, which you can use to file your own claim if you want to.

Take them to small claims court for breach of contract if you really paid for a feature they were supposed to deliver and never did, or renigged on their deal after delivering it. You can certainly argue that you were reasonable in expecting that your $2500 would result in a feature that would last for the life of your car.

Not so. You can win, at least in California, to get a refund for what you paid for full self driving. Small claims court. Check Sacramento county. A case was filed in 2024 and won against TESLA in 2025. TESLA paid back full self driving plus interest. Based on breach of contract. Small claims court does not set precedent, but you can learn from the case that was won.

True, but, looks like that ruling was based on the customer’s selling of the vehicle before passing the safety score?

An upgrade should be an upgrade. It’s not fixing something later. While it can fix things per se, it should be an improvement. I.e. small changes to suspension to increase acceleration, small increases of range, or whatever they want to do.

You’ll still get updates, they never said all of them.

If the car wasn't paid off and the market for trade ins wasn't absolutely awful I'd be like why aren't you looking for another EV outside of Tesla, but I get it. We got out of our Model X a few months ago because we finally had enough of Elon's nonsense, and going back to the old way of purchasing a car was hell to begin with, but then the trade in market for Tesla's was proving so volatile that they had to re-adjust the value partway through the process, it absolutely sucked. However getting back to a car where I can use android auto is really wonderful.

Lmao what year Tesla did you buy? They weren’t even good until 2022 with the AMD chip haha sucks to be you I guess?

If your TESLA has been out of service more than 30 days in a year, you are probably entitled to a FULL REFUND of your lease payments or purchase price. Keep records of the time it is in the shop and file under your states Lemon 🍋 Law. Just got paid 2 months ago and friends got their refund this month!! Tesla has to pay attorneys fees or if the BBB is active they do it for free also.

Lmao someone’s angry they were an early adopter

Musk is a nazi because he made a hand gesture that every major democrat and progressive are also on camera doing. lol ok.  But the FSD thing was kind of a bust.

Have you seen Audi and BMW? What comes as standard without the "tech package" is dogshit. Nice cars, but you pay way over the odds for basic features.

I'm just curious, will the iPhone become obsolete because people with older models can't enjoy the newer technology? I may understand this is just a more expensive piece of technology but anytime you buy technology, aren't you accepting the fact that it will slightly become obsolete in time? Even people with the latest models and grok run that risk. At some point everything ages. This is really more of a conversation about whether you should invest a lot of money into technology more than a complaint about whether companies that rely heavily on technology advancements can survive in the long-term.

They just announced they are stopping production on some car models lol because "robots bro". Yeah this company is doomed and I can only cheer the end of a fascist's pet project that only got to the top through LIES and FRAUDE (Elon legit lying for subsidies in the early days). As an economist it was hilarious to see idiotic investors think its normal that a relatively insignificant although somewhat promising car company somehow has 10-20x higher stock price than companies that 10x Teslas sales whilst still being profitable and also having many other industry projects. They deserve to lose their investment. What idiot invests in a company where the ceo legit uses the same fsd lie of "its coming next year ish" for the last decade. Only feel bad for their employees and people who have tesla in their etf. Because the tesla stock crash is happening very soon. Might see a bump cus people are stupid and think "omg yeah robots bro", but tesla cant compete with china. They lost their USP and their advantage because their dumbass CEO was busy spreading nazi propaganda. And then they offer him a 1 trillion package hahaha. Idiotic board. Idiotic investors. Idiotic ceo... Yeah.. doomed.

The idiots holding Tesla stock with a pe of 360 not only harm themselves with an asset at least 20 x overpriced. They also make a crazed right wing neo nazi very powerful. Even a pe of 16 would be too high for a company in rapid decline.