Tesla is in deeper trouble than you think

Seems like a 5D chess move to make everyone hate you. /s

Hopefully sales continue to drop over the years and they eventually have to sell to another company or go bankrupt

Good to see a major news agency post something factual about Tesla instead of echoing the financial analyst talking heads.

Tesla is unlikely to ever post a profit again after the BBB kicks in

He's nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is. So many stupid, predictable unforced errors he's made. Fine if it was JUST him, but so many (foolishly) have a lot of money in Tesla stock, many retirement funds, like many schools have parts of their pension money in Tesla stock and on and on. Now I say it was foolish and not just because of musk these last 6 months, with Trump but for a LONG time now their PE ratio has been way out of whack, well out of the normal range like way, WAY out of normal.

I'd just like to mention that Tesla's lineup is too old. They haven't invested in a real redesign and it shows. The automotive industry thrives on freshness.

I’m at the point where I think that Tesla could go bankrupt and the stock would still go up.

“He’s been able to alienate everyone, which many thought was impossible, but he’s actually been able to do it” Elon Musk: doing the impossible. Don’t ever bet against how low he can go!

Many of Tesla's Chinese suppliers set up the Optimus robot manufacturing capacities outside of China. Now the project is put on hold (likely unable to hit the price point as opposed to functionalities as claimed), there will be bad blood.

I knew the Day he bought twitter that he was unable to control himself and addicted to attention. I knew that cannot turn out well. It's a shame he and so many other millions have these addictions...this type of attention is a stronger drug than heroin or meth.

Imagine doubting that Optimus is going to be driving around robotaxis by the end of the year and generating trillions.

Tesla is gonna be this generation’s Enron

I'm glad they're pointing out how far behind Tesla is in the Robotaxi race and calling them out for only launching their service to Tesla fans with a Tesla employee in the car. Bring up robotaxi to the average person and they think Tesla is the only company doing anything when in fact they're the ones doing nothing. Most people don't get past the fake Tesla headlines or only read articles from major news agencies which usually repeat Tesla propaganda. Slowly the truth is getting to the general population about Tesla and it's scams.

I always hoped we’d see the Better Business Bureau step in here…

I’m surprised Dan Ives didn’t increase his price target today when Elon told him to “shut up”

Tesla will NEVER make enough money to reflect the current stock price. People are nuts.

Not being able to sell cars to a massive segment of the US population as well as Europe is a disaster that cannot be overcome. It's pretty much unprecedented. No one has ever destroyed a brand so thoroughly and quickly. As far as the stock, its not a growth company anymore but still priced like one.

He’s been acting similarly to a drug addict. Hot and cold. Power can be a serious addiction, just like TACO.

You know I've said the same thing about CVNA for the past 2 years and here we are, fresh ATH.

He’s also a drug addict. So that tracks.

Misread Enron as Elon lol

Nah the music does end up stopping - see Nikola lol

I've been saying this. Im old and I remember.

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He could find an opening in Epstein's old cell maybe?

Too cool. Gets what he deserves. What he did to wreck so many families and careers. A real pos. Maybe he will end his life poor and destitute.

Tesla's immunity to stock price collapse was always hinged on Musk's ability to dodge reprisal and consequences from being Trump's first buddy. Now that even the Orange ape is against him, Musk is completely out of options. When his money runs dry, so will Tesla's time and stock price.

Yes agree. In fact mercedes once discussed an offer to buy tesla but their one condition was that Elon had zero involvement. He wouldn’t agree so the discussions ended.

So does Pepperidge Farm

The difference being that the general public had no idea that Enron was doing shit things, but with Tesla we see what's going on yet we continue to boost its stock price.

soooooo... what you're saying is I should buy all the stock I can get my grubby little hands on cuz its about to go through the roof? Time to crack open the piggy bank and empty out the couch!

thats hilarious. Actually they would probably have better luck selling and licensing technology. Like perhaps they could license FSD to another car company (after adding lidar/radar/ultrasound inputs). There could be applications for some of the robotics work they have done... spin off their energy component and sell it. I think part of whats fucked Tesla (one small part anyway) is the sort of ADHD way its run. That its into everything! Its a car... no a tech... no an energy... no a robotics... fuck it: its a company. While thats shitty for Tesla, it might open avenues for breaking things off or splitting into many more focussed companies. Just my thoughts anyway.

Casino chips have no need to have intrinsic value. Tesla is a simply a gambling mechanism.

I kept wondering all day why everyone was freaking out about the Better Business Bureau.

Fewer cars they make, less money that they would lose. Bullish.

I have a Wedbush account and Dan Ives makes me sick.

Yes agree. Also, a year or two ago he offered to licens fsd to other automakers. No takers. Lawyers tend to disapprove of licensing things and dissuade management if those things could bring massive liabilities and lawsuits.

Oh, they did! There were analysts screaming about their financial discrepancies for many quarters, weird executive moves, etc. It was just dismissed by the major public because obviously a company that size doesn’t just “fail”. The stock was at record highs less than a year before it melted, and it went to zero in 6 months…

You want people losing their jobs because you don't like Elon Mask? You do realise they employ 120k people around the world. Also think about companies that supply parts to Tesla.

I agree that its stock has been able to defy gravity for a long time. But the end comes for all grifts eventually.

Why do they say Goldfish have no memory?

HAHAHAHAHA SO TRUE

Glass castles always collapse eventually.

Source?

You could say the same thing about all the Nazis that worked for Hitler.. they reaclimated,

I've always said that Tesla will transition to mainly producing & installing utility scale batteries instead of cars. In Australia Tesla already makes more money from those utility scale batteries. *You can't have a positive cash flow if you aren't selling cars. & Mr Musk has totally pissed off Tesla's major focus market.*

Yeah, the stock price is bizarre.

Just like the time I saw a bunch of old white dudes crowing about BLM an was jusss beaureu of land management meetin

I knew it when he called that that British cave diver a pedo. That was when I first thought, "this guy is a real piece of shit and pathological liar and bully."

Twitter purchase was 100% a pump And dump. Buy shares, claim to be buying the company at <inflated price>, sell when folks rush in to buy pre-offer and drive the price up. It is his MO, he’s always lying to drive prices higher. But the Twitter execs surprised him by accepting his offer, he tried to weasel out but failed. Twitter has been doomed since, no way they can service the debt he piled on to buy the company, he’s been pitching crazy plans to his co-investors who mistakenly believed he had a plan. Turning Twitter into a right wing haven is him trying to take his ball and go home.

I listened an acquaintance spew every bullshit line musk ever has and declare him humanity’s only hope. So it’s much less bizarre to me now.

Does it? Bitcoin has zero intrinsic value. I wouldn’t bet against it

Still not buying an EV.

Would be even cooler if the founding members that Elon muscled out took their company back

> and calling them out for only launching their service to Tesla fans with a Tesla employee in the car Wondering whether or not robotaxi owners have to feed & wash the in-car Tesla employee; and how much to get a replacement if you damage the employee that was provided.

You seem to think smart people don't do stupid things. John Delorean was probably the most capable automotive executive of his generation. But DMC was a total fiasco. His concept was brilliant but the execution was a total disaster (much of it outside his control).

People have been saying this exact thing for yeeeears.

If that doesn’t prove my point, I don’t know what does.

Yeah, I’m not saying you’re wrong - I’m *definitely* not one of those who think that Tesla isn’t massively overvalued.

You didn’t think he was a piece of shit already for the stuff the “pedo guy” called him out on?

Depends upon how much you think I think they are in. I suspect they are effectively insolvent if not bankrupt but the market manipulaters running their scams though black rock fedelity and the like are not done. They will get their money out and leave our money in the company. Then while everything crashes under the next Trump recession they can ether move back in and buy on the cheap or move onto the next scam. When the Tesla stock drops under $200 a share and stays you know the end is near.

My prediction from 2nd half of 2024 still stands... $TSLA will be acquired by a major automaker at around $4 share by the end of 2027, maybe 2026. They literally have nothing but cash burning at this point. Cratering sales, cash burning hobbies like robots and taxis that are both shitty, and a racist chat bot. This article does mention the two MAJOR headwinds in the billionaires bailout bill... the lost of carbon credits (big if true... it's true) and the fact their cars now cost ~20% more without ev rebates. But there's more... the infrastructure spending that was going to support elmos cars just basically evaporated. Bbb again. That was really the only bright spot on the balance sheet for the company right now... the charging infrastructure. Sionara. People will blather on about their energy storage biz... that's like not even 5% of their business, not to mention, the funding for that just got obliterated too (yup, big budget blowout). $TSLZ

Beings that Tesla owns a ton of Bitcoin.. what seemed like an idiotic move by Musk may end up keeping his wealth afloat. If he basically piles all available Tesla funds it basically becomes a Bitcoin ETF as opposed to an automotive company. Sure Bitcoin is EXTREMELY risky in my opinion but not until Trump is out of office.

Is that true. I had two goldfish in my college dorm. Then I came home one day and there was only one. Still confused.

Pretty sure he will come up with a New Art of Projecting Concentrated Non-dispersive Energy through the Natural Media and that will make it worth every penny of its stock price ;) /s

https://qz.com/elon-musk-tesla-full-self-driving-automakers-license-1851390096

BYD had a modern electric car years before tesla did. I don't really see how anyone believes tesla will have the first household affordable and useful chore bot before China does? Until it happens there it isn't happening here

No way telsa will ever go bankrupt, but investors are definitely angry with Elon’s new dream

Yep. Could be.

Based on the wages Tesla pays their mechanics etc, they could be better off working as a janitor or something.

Should we worry about the thousands of taxi drivers that would lose their livelihoods if robotaxi were to become successful, or his other plans to supplant human employees with machines?

If it ever disappears - Glory days!

I wonder what happens with all the cars once they won’t be digitally supported anymore

The problem in FSD is the training set, it’s from Tesla drivers. Trying to make a good self driving based on that is like trying to churn shit into butter.

There is no goldfish

I don't own Tesla stocks. Way too risky but I'm glad that Tesla is facing a lot of challenges right now. They will be forced to innovate and make their cars better to win back customers. I am leasing a model Y and love the car. But I think it could be better in terms of range. Tesla will survive but under Trump, it will be super bumpy.

So is the entire stock market

Potentially reducing those pesky variable costs. I see only upside.

Bitcoin is both the value of the electricity it takes to produce, its use as a trade-able currency and a speculative vehicle. It also doesn't have to have products, margins, innovation, exponentially increasing sales and earnings, yada yada. Definitely a different scenario.

Bitcoin will drop to zero eventually, but I wouldnt bet against it because I have no way of knowing when that happens.

Unfortunately he found a way to use XAI investor money to buy Twitter from himself and clear the debt https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqjq11202ro.amp

No debt? Bullish.

Genius move actually!

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Their tech kinda sucks. Waymo does better self driving. BYD has better batteries. Boston Robotics is ages ahead on robots. Tesla is behind on everything but hype.

> Like perhaps they could license FSD to another car company (after adding lidar/radar/ultrasound inputs). Who in their right mind would do that ?

Stein's Law >"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." When? Who knows. But eventually.

The older I get the more I'm convinced that modernity is just as superstitious and irrational as antiquity, just with different window dressing. We're still fundamentally the same dumb people as always, and this idiocy makes the world go round as it gets exploited by the powerful. The story keeps repeating with different names and different manifestations of the exact same insanity.

Just another layer to this house of cards

I think this doesn't even (directly) go into their biggest issue: they completely mismanaged their product lineup. They realistically only have 2 models (3 and Y). That's fine when there's like 10 good model in the whole market, less so when other OEMs start to make more models. Model diversification is needed to keep market shares, other OEMs don't introduce this headache of model management just for fun. Issue is this costs a lot of money, as you have to adapt your factories and supply chain to handle more models, and I guess Musk didn't want to reduce their profit per car (which is only so high because they have so few factories and models). And then, instead of broadening wide appeal models, they develop (allegedly) a supercar, a semi truck, and a concept truck, and go into completely different utopic markets (FSD and Robots). All things that don't sell in any kind of volume to secure their marker share (and that's ignoring most are still in limbo). Their battery development also shits the bed and gets obsolete pretty fast (that's the issue with vertical integration, you're in deep shit if only one part of your R&D gets surpassed by other companies) And the cherry on top, their one promising diversification venture, the energy section, gets gutted. The years since covid are really a big hit of what a CEO shouldn't do. Why he still has his job is beyond me (well, not really, he's the only thing propping the stock up, but it's kinda infuriating how his lies keep him in a position his action should have kicked him out of)

Once earnings are negative it will just be a question of time before [S&P500 delist](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1ltq8we/comment/n1v5rez/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). This will flood the market with TSLA, more than fanboys 'buying the dip' can cover, and the price will crash.

Now they are starting a Tesla Diner. As if their ROIC and Fcf isn’t declining enough. Now they paused the Optimus project. Curious to see how much money they’ve been spending on that. People think the money will last forever, yet they’re burning through it pretty fast.

A few years back they would have had to sell every car in the world going forward to justify it. People bought into that without the mention of ai and robots. That didn't happen. But they just shifted the goal posts to robotaxis and people bought into that. Yep, people are nuts, stupid and gullible.

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Who has the money to buy it in such an economy?

I see bitcoin machines in shops. Bitcoin has hard forked. I see bitcoin marketing on TV networks. The coin itself is like the stock itself, a number on a network. The price discovery is the same.

I hope

TSLA is a meme stock, not tied to company fundamentals what so ever

"Sayonara" is the Japanese farewell..😉 But you make very good points.... As an Automotive OEM Devt Engineer of 30 years, across multiple global companies, i cant see ANY esatablished OEM pick them up as a going concern...whats in it for the buyer? The company is poorly run, random practices and design procedures, The tech is old now, the brand is trashed, the charge infra rollout is stopped...any "legacy" oem can easily do it themsleves, except for prob rapid charger layout....all the 'conventional' tech such as chassis,suspension, body systems is rubbish...i've seen them during competitive teardowns...industry snickers every time! The electric tech waswhere they WERE leaders, since squandering that significant first mover advantage. But agree with a lit of your indicators for their outlook and inevirable failure..😊

Before the AI boom TSLA was already well on it's way to zero, Enron Musk used that as an opportunity to re-framed the scam. Things only got more desperate and nonsensical since then.

Racist chatbot is from X AI, no?

If you are not in on the scam, you won't know when the scam masters will cash in.

Yeah that’s a fair point

That would be a glorious FAFO moment for investors.

No, Tesla was an EV pioneer. BYD only had a hybrid when Roadster came out.  Subsequently Tesla waived their IP loyalty and that boosted all the Chinese EV companies.

Good. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving “ceo”

It's 1D chess.... at best

Beth Bath and Beyond has entered the chat

I won’t bet against bitcoin either, but I’m certainly not buying it… “Markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay liquid”… Honestly, I’m not sure the market has ever been more irrational. We’ve created an absurd amount of speculative wealth… I have no clue what’s going to happen or when… but man… it feels like we are playing jenga and an entire row is missing and we are all just waiting for gravity to notice.

I didn't really know anything about him (other than the main stuff, like CEO of Tesla). When he said that, I remember a complete shift in my opinion on the guy from indifferent to "what an asshole piece of trash."

There are still people out there who believe that their shares in Bed Bath and Beyond are going to be worth something…

They will merge with xAI. And then xAI will absorb SpaceX in 10 years when Starship still can’t reach orbit.

From what I have seen and red, FSD is nearly as good as a BMW driver. Maybe BMW should license the tech?

This is like saying my 💩 has the value of wagyu steak I ate. It cost that much electricity to make a btc but that doesn't mean it's worth that much now.

BB/QNX powering ALL it's competitors at 0.27% the market cap.

That’s a strong argument.

> Bitcoin will drop to zero eventually So will the USD.

They have not innovated in several years and are propped up due to a series of lies from Elon. Sales numbers are declining globally, and are not going to come back because others are innovating and there are many choices when shopping for an EV. The US rebates are done, the carbon credits are done, both are very bad for Tesla as no matter what Elon says, they are a car company first and foremost as that is what generates profit for them, and those profits are gone

Agree on that but amazing how many people will argue otherwise.

They would have to modify it though so it doesn’t use the turn signals.

Companies that want to be sued out of existence.

It was all in my imagination then.

What other company would want an inferior technology from another company that a they really don't like and b has been obstinately refusing to do what is best for the technology?

Casino Chips are worth at least $2 each. Its pretty common to "buy" the $1 Casino Chips and smuggle them home, because they're so well made, consistently weighted and with good feel. Alas, this only really works with the $1 Casino Chips and maybe the rarer $2 Chip. You'll find that $5, $10 or $100 Casino Chips are a bit more expensive to acquire!!

ah yes, another tesla doomsday post. Its only been what? a day since the last one rofl.

Like I said if they updated it to use additional sensors. Just spitballing how tesla could try and dig its way out of this hole it’s in. But FSD has a lot of issues both technically and brand marketing. It may very well be worthless for trying to sell or license.

The Hyundai Elantra's current design looks so much cooler than the Model S at half the price

How are his other companies not bankrupt too? These was some shuffle where XAi bought Twitter (X) last year. That would mean XAi consists of: 1. A social media company that was barely revenue nuetral before Elon scared most of the users and advertisers away. 2. Grok, which like ChatGPT, loses money every time somebody uses it, and has very few paid subscribers. It has to be eating burning through cash like crazy.

Car sales collapse and stonk still goes up. This makes no sense. Meanwhile the executives at Tesla have been dumping stocks for months now.

Stock manipulation is easier than creating and maintaining a profitable car factory, so its easier to cheat and steal than run a successful car company.

Yes, and it might even do so before Bitcoin if the current shitshow keeps going.

i hate the valuation of tesla, but i DONT hate tesla. Tesla isnt going bankrupt and demand isnt gonna drop drastically. lets be real. Electric cars are clearly the future, and no1 in the USA does it better than Tesla. Will I buy a tesla right now? hell no, gimme a toyota 4runner at those prices. But if elon's end goal is space, I will support that man till the wheels fall off. America can only grow with forward thinking people like elon.

The BYD e6 came out in 2008.  The model s, tesla first mass market modern ev. Came out 3 years later.  >By September 10, 2008, Tesla had delivered 27 of the cars to customers.  The roadster wasn't really ahead of the e6 anyway. By the end of 2009 they had delivered like 200 of the 2 seaters

Pretty sure Grok is still being partially run by gas powered generators too.. so bad.

But if they updated it to use additional sensors they're starting from scratch. Adding sensors isn't magically going to make the technology that they currently have better than everybody else's who have been using the additional sensors this whole time. Tesla royally screwed up on this one. They had probably two orders of magnitude more vehicles to build their data set, freely at their disposal to work with, and due to the insistence of their leader to not use additional sensors have clearly failed to be able to use that data to make a system that can actually work. The obvious answer here is that they can't do it, because if they could have they would have. Their technology is not worthless, it will be helpful for assistance systems, but I do not believe it will ever be able to compete for fully autonomous driving. Once everybody else is at that point, Tesla is screwed.

Enron musk 🤣

He will need to sell some Tesla shares, but that is not because they still steeply priced but it is for the benefit of american democracy Everybody Else hold and wait for Kathy wood 10x

Hitler was pretty forward thinking just like Elon in almost every way.

…then Grok will just buy it on the cheap with stock inflated from AI promises.

Totally rational. Bankruptcy proceedings are all about shafting creditors, and given the current administration's support of that concept, it should be possible to slightly modify the process to enable stockholders to fully benefit from it.

They should license their hype strategies to other automakers.

Yeah I think that was the turning point for many. It was like... wait a second that has nothing to do with anything he's really just bullshitting everything?

I’m pretty sure this is a copy paste of a CNN article. I don’t know if that means the author put it here again or if somebody just stole it off of their site. One of the paragraphs copied and paste it is duplicated.

Exactly. Come back in 20 years, it'll all be the same.

The CNN link is there, they are credited.

Gets worse. That drop in sales means there less carbon credit to sell. Toped up with European car companies not needing credits due to their own ev offerings sales expanding.

I can't beleive that I'm watching the news media bash on Elon Musk now that he's talking about creating a new political party. It's unbelievable how crazy biased the media is in this country. They had absolutely nothing bad to say until he decided to make a new political party... I'm being serious: I'm definately not an Elon Musk fan, but that's the most dishonest thing I've ever seen on the news. Oh so, he's not bootlicking a dictator so now they're personally insulting him on live TV. He's "crazy" and can't fill out forms or something, but the rich guys before him could with out much issue. Yeah okay buddy.

The way “alien abduction” narratives match “stolen away by the fairies” tales of old, for example.

>And so castles made of sand >Fall in the sea >eventually --[Jimi Hendrix](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MCCvY2oD2w)

Good. Fuck Elon and fuck Tesla

As this post was before todays resignations lol

Glad to hear it! Short this shit.

The market is basically rich peoples' and crazy cultists' feelings acting out daily.

So if I use twice as much electricity to mine my coin is it twice as valuable?

No. The electricity is only one factor. There's also the use as a currency and speculative vehicle. They all combine to give a market price.

Oh we see the giant big-screen tvs with musk acting all high and mighty, but especially high. We all see it!

I've heard this a couple times - 'Tesla can just bolt on LiDAR and radar'. That's not at all how neural networks work. They'd have to start the modeling process from the very beginning.

Sorry, let me be more direct. The electricity used to mine does not figure into the value.

The 11k per bitcoin it costs to mine at 10 cents per kwh has no bearing at all on the price? K

Yeah they would have to add lidar radar etc features to the training set and retrain their models. Not sure if they would have to dump all the existing data that doesn’t have lidar features or not. Im not saying it would be easy or cheap. But maybe it would be give them something another company would want to license rather than roll their own.

$100 casino chips are usually much more expensive to manufacture because of all the added security features such as UV coatings, IR coatings and RFID chips. That is if the casino chooses to add them.

I’m not reading all that but bullish most likely.

Musk supported Trump for reason last year, to keep Chinese cars out of the US market. Trump ran for president for one reason last year, to stay out of jail.

I mean, I have no doubt that they were probably gaming the rebate system in the US, I mean in Canada we caught them appearing to apply for $42 in fraudulent rebates. https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/tesla-ev-rebates-canada-investigation-freeze-incentive

Saying it’s for reasons other than his personal politics…is doing some heavy lifting

Yep, that's when I gave up on Elon.

Tesla Fanboys are where the real comedy is. LMAO

Bitcoin doesn't do politics, the grift is 10s of thousands of people playing hot potato with their money half of them don't know that's what they're doing and the other half are at an advantage.

Major political parties will make sure it’s the next Enron if he’s serious about mounting a 3rd party threat

Realistically, unless they turn it around FAST, the company is already at risk of imploding. Sure, fanboys will obviously blame democrats or whatever bullshit. Sales numbers are down hard, cybertruck is a massive flop, the EV incentives are gone. The stock is holding on to the dream that the scamtaxis and the scambots will work. Not exactly grounded in reality

Exactly, spoken like a true Tesla YouTube fanboy. They'll spin anything.

Tesla is the quintessential example of why markets aren’t actually efficiently pricing value.

Or ketamine?

Yeah, xAI is burning potentially as much as $1B a month. It's literally insane.

Shit like this is why we can’t have nice things, even more so than military spending. Money that could build lasting infrastructure, or advance human knowledge gets funneled into these tech dickhead’s laps. The proceed to flush it down the toilet just so they can pocket some of it on its way in.

You’re partially right. The two of them both had the same motivations: free rein to scam and staying out of jail. The Democrats weren’t going to let the Chinese sell cars here, but Musk himself indicated he’d be going to jail if they won the election.

That one is incredible. Their books are cooked. No way anyone is making money off used cars.

Haha!

A drop in global demand doesn’t mater when you’re long term goal is not to generate money from cars. He’s never cared about the EV tax credit, plenty of times he’s said if it disappeared it wouldn’t be an issue. They will make trillions from robotaxi, humanoid robots and energy storage. When you stop seeing it as a car company run by a political activist and see it as a robotics and AI company run by some of the smartest, most innovative people on earth and stop getting an education from news headlines, you’ll see it will be the largest company on earth!

Correct. Bitcoin is a block chain technology. There is no physical value attribute to back Bitcoin. Never has been, never will be. The costs of mining gold has no bearing at all on the price, and only a bearing on the value of the venture. Demand and supply create the price.

it’s not the EV credit loss, it’s the carbon credit loss. Selling carbon credits is what has kept Tesla profitable- and the U.S. revenue has now been made obsolete.

Im sure that will have an effect in the short term. They’ve definitely benefited from the Carbon credits. Though as their revenue moves away from Profit from selling vehicles and having a buffer of over 30bn in cash, I think they will be fine!

I think that I can think Tesla in deeper trouble than they realise. It started with Elon thinking he could bully-boy Scandinavian unions into submission, well, that didn’t work and went on to his all too brief political career DOGE and Nazi leanings. Tesla is never going to shine as bright again unless Musk is surgically removed from the brand. Yes they can keep the stock artificially high by buying into it themselves but ultimately the core product is Nazi tainted.

Agree but my lost puts will disagree with you greatly

You are probably right.

Welcome to 2022. The valuation has everything to do with robotaxi and future AI applications.

Tesla Robotaxi is quickly being proven as a scam with no hope of ever being autonomous and years behind Waymo tech so it will soon be time to move on to the next vaporware scam to try to keep the stock up.

It may go bankrupt but not from fraud lmfao yall just say things that sound cool

The point flew miles over your head

Without EV tax credits and carbon credits Tesla would have never gotten off the ground. The media you speak of is usually biased and likes to spread Elon B S talking points like Tesla is not a car company and promotes his scams. If you ask someone who just reads the headlines they associate Robotaxi with Tesla be that's what makes the headlines when in fact Tesla has never launched an actual autonomous vehicle and is years behind Waymo. Companies like VW and Ford using Waymo tech will put out an autonomous car before Tesla. Tesla is an overvalued car company with double digit sales declines ran by a political activist (if you want to call a Nazi a political activist). If you buy into the narrative that Tesla isn't a car company, you've drank the Musk Kool-aid.

It didn’t. It’s a very different type of ‘fraud’ if you can even call it fraud. Dude lies to everyone’s face about what he expects. Enron lied behind closed doors about accounting facts It’s ok to be wrong

Got it. One is fraud, but the other is fraud. And both are end up in spectacular meltdowns. But it isn’t “the same thing” because you’re very smart.

What are the odds of him being kicked out of the company ? Compared to Chinese evs tariffs being removed from Canada?

Yep, and yet the Musk fanboys don't care. All it takes is one tweet from Elmo to "announce" that they are expanding their "Robotaxi" service (which is just an Uber service with the driver on the passenger seat) to San Francisco, "pending regulatory approval". Fan boys then push the stock up to $310 yesterday with more to come today (as it seems they also want to expend to Phoenix). DMV California clarified that apart from the permit from March 2025 Tesla hasn't gotten any other permit required to do their Robotaxi service. Also, they would require all the data (which Tesla doesn't give or forces Austin to not share "as it's a risk to Tesla"), so Tesla won't get the required permits to officially transport and get paid for taxi services in California. Yes, they can drive their employees around or some "stock pumper friends" but officially can't get paid for it. It all doesn't matter, it's indeed important that Tesla loses all revenue and makes a big loss (which will happen officially from Q4/2025 onwards). Only then I hope that the big institutions are selling their Tesla shares, especially all those big pension funds who have seen a loss in the last 4 years and should do their financial duty to invest their clients money more wisely and better.

It's like the fanboys only read the headlines or read nothing and listen to Elon's lies.

> That didn't happen. But they just shifted the goal posts to robotaxis and people bought into that. And even with Robotaxis (which they don't have) they can't justify this valuation. Taxis are a hugely capital intensive business, not at all like software margins. The idea that Tesla is worth more than every other car company on Earth because they make a Robotaxi is basically just replacing the "they have to sell every car on the planet for 10 years" narrative to "they have to be responsible for every car ride, train journey, commercial flight, and bike ride on the planet".

Sorry, you lost me after "fanboys" LOL. It has something to do with brain capacity. And selective hearing, as most fanboys are guys (including Nazi Boomer Mama Eva Braun, I doubt she has female reproductive organs).

> They realistically only have 2 models (3 and Y). And the Y is just a parts bin derivative of the 3. They cut so many costs in going from the 3 to the Y that they reused the seats, the Model Y seats are just Model 3 seats on little stilts. > That's fine when there's like 10 good model in the whole market, less so when other OEMs start to make more models. Model diversification is needed to keep market shares, other OEMs don't introduce this headache of model management just for fun. And their most successful car, the Y, is in the most crowded market segment imaginable, crossover SUVs. Almost every OEM has a crossover SUV and a lot of them are electric (Hyundai Ioniq 5, Toyota bZ4x, Ford Mustang Mach-E, Chevy Bolt, etc, etc, etc).

because it's not about rational investors buying into a company because they believe in future profits. Musk is a master at pronouncing "the next big thing" for Tesla (like full self driving being right around the corner for ten years in a row, or 100,000 robotaxis by the end of the year). Rational people know it's bullshit. Too many investors are afraid of missing out - they kneejerk buy the stock so they get it before this next phenomenal accomplishment which they think will push the stock higher. They have seen too many "this is how much money you'd have today if you bought $1000 of Apple stock in 1980" videos. Musk is a con man and too much of the investor class is not very bright.

"Never went to therapy"

Have you even looked at any revenue reports? Carbon credits have underwritten Tesla for years.

Prob would if they could. All they care about is revenue. They forgot the part where you have to add value or offer something of value.

Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, yet here we are. Tesla is a meme. Until the 15 year tulip bubble craze we’ve been in pops, expect Tesla and anything else the hive mind decides is worth infinite amounts of money to continue like they are.

Not a fan of Elon but despite all these EVs in China, Tesla is still the best selling EV there. Same with US. Yes there’s a drop in sales but it’s still the most sensible EV choice.

BYD has over taken Tesla not just as the best selling EV company in China but as the best selling EV company in the world. I've owned 2 EV'S and driven most others including renting a Model Y for a week and I can tell you from experience that Tesla has the most generic poorest quality cars of every major EV mfg. It would make no sense to buy a Tesla over any other EV.

Tesla could fail to sell a single car and the stock would go up. They’re only 3 years away from selling another car! P/E to 200 baybay!

Tsla does not trade on fundamentals. See u at 1000 a share end of year.

Trump killing the ZEV credits will take $1B a year out of Tesla's bottom line. $1B that had zero cost attached to it for Tesla. Poetic revenge on Musk.

Well that would just be a way to buy insanely expensive bitcoin then.

I had a chance to buy Bitcoin in 2010. I didn't. And I'm damn proud of it. I don't know how people can sleep at night playing hot potato with a worthless product, and then dumping it on unsuspecting rubes.

Oddly enough I gave him a pass on that one. Thought yeah kinda of stupid and mean of him, but doesn't really impact how he runs the company. The Roman salute sealed the deal for me, though. Immediately sold all stock.

I’m begging all of you to please put your $ where your mouth is . If you are so inclined to believe the company will fail then short the stock ! . Since I believe the stock will be going up ( no need to mention why to this forum for obvious reasons ) I will continue to be a shareholder 🙏🏻

It gets crazier when you realize that his wealth is literally coming from the US government.

It hasn’t evolved. It’s the same thing as it was 10 years ago. Boring.

I mean its a tech company not really a car company so it kinda makes sense

They have alot of other tech there making its not just a car company. Realistically the cars are just a hobby for them at this point or a side effect of the data collection

In Australia Tesla already makes more money from utility scale batteries than from cars. I reckon there's a big chance that Tesla will transition to selling mainly batteries, not cars.

It’s my biggest short sale.

Tesla’s disruption isn’t over.. it’s just evolving. But between quality issues, growing competition, and CEO distractions, there *are* storm clouds. All eyes are now on what Tesla does next to stay the leader...

TLDR: Tesla was never a successful company, unless you consider scamming the government a success story

Like a roadrunner cartoon

maybe they sleep on an expensive matress in their huge house in a desirable location that they bought with their bitcoin profits.

That’s such a great description… I’m fucking Wil E Coyote and the second I step off the cliff, things will fall.