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Sitting here in Europe I feel a bit more doubtful.
That means you didn’t do a testdrive, yet ;)
Wait until it’s available. I’m finally subscribing. It’s that good.
Yeah. It’s REALLY good now and I say this as someone who hated it. In Mad Max mode it’s very close to mimicking how I drive. 😆
Lmk when it stops violently braking every time an overpass rolls by
Everyone would agree that FSD is the best L2 ADAS system. Because other companies are all focusing on L4 now.
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It stopped doing this years ago??
It is.
On HW3?
Yes, with FSD
Going to have to agree to disagree.
Alright suit yourself. My original comment was a question, not a statement. I was just surprised by the difference in experience, that’s all. Because in my experience Hw3 stopped doing that years ago. But If you say it still happens to you in some places, I believe you.
Sorry, not trying to be rude. You put a question mark at the end of a statement but it doesn’t read like a question to me. To your question, I have a friend with HW4 who says FSD is great and has no issues and is regularly suggesting I should use it. I believe him. But on HW3 on an early MY FSD is a dangerous joke that should be pulled from the market. I have tried it a few times and it jerks around and does silly stuff. It feels like they just quantize it to fit on HW3 and don’t really test. So it has brain damage like LLMs that get quantized.
That’s not my experience with HW3
Same. Not my experience at all either. Sure it does stupid small predictable mistakes, but it’s never swerved, jerked or violently braked.
Which company has the best L4 right now?
Havent experienced that in 3 years on HW3
Even v12.6.4 is pretty good on my HW3 Model 3. I would imagine a current version with HW4 is considerably better than that.
So a Tool that claims to be full automation is in the end just driver assistence? No wonder the cab has a steering wheel.
That’s different. They are indeed testing and working in “unsupervised” FSD. But also, the term “assistance” is a bit misleading, just like FSD is. It’s more than assisting. You can turn on FSD in your garage and have your car drive you to work an hour away, and even park itself. Yes, under your supervision, but that’s more than mere assistance.
It’s called “Full Self Drive (Assisted)”. Assisted is in the name.
My money is on Waymo, but their tech will never be directly available to consumers.
Oh sorry, I thought when you said companies, you meant auto makers.
I believe it and I don’t know why they don’t market its strengths and price it as such. I guess because of promises and the stock market.
You mean “(Supervised)”. It isn’t called “assisted”.
We traded in our owned-since-new 2017 S for a 2026 M3P at the end of December. I have been driving with Autopilot and FSD since the AP2 days with a frequent 100 mile one-way commute. There is no comparison - Yes, HW3 on 12.6.4 could do about 80% of my driving and it was “good” and definitely helpful, but it wasn’t smooth and made a lot of frustrating mistakes. HW4 on 14.2.2.2.2.2 is incredibly smooth, reliable, aggressive when I want it to be (Mad Max) and defensive when it needs to be. Since my kids have gone back to school, we are 100% garage to curbside and then to my work parking garage or on to my long commute, zero takeover, zero interaction. The hardest part for me is deciding whether to enjoy the M3P while driving manually or being chauffeured around. Not a bad problem to have.
Don’t have a performance but i also struggle with wanting to drive it myself sometimes just bc i also want to have a little fun. Indeed a good problem to have.
It is full automation with supervision. Someone just did a coast to coast drive with zero interventions. The supervision is more of a legal/regulatory bypass. It's gotten much more chill about letting you temporarily depart from your vigiliance, dependent on traffic conditions around you.
Which should tell you how far away truly autonomous is.
Same. 14.2.2.2 is crazy good. I wish I had more examples of it to give but driving the Cyberbeast manually is just _so fucking fun_
Second this. I forgot that was even a thing.
2023 would like their comment back.
I hate to say it but at one point the Apple Newton had the best handwriting recognition software in the market
> Everyone would agree that FSD is the best L2 ADAS system. Because other companies are all focusing on L4 now. Waymo is the only company that can do L4 in a geofence and you can't buy a Waymo. FSD is L2 in name only, it's fully L3 capable in a non geofenced environment. There is no other manufacturer doing non geofenced L3 capable self driving, let alone L4.
> Which should tell you how far away truly autonomous is. At this point Tesla is 99% of the way there. I don't understand why people think it's gotta be L4/L5, or nothing. I don't care about L4. I am interested in a car that can drive me 300 miles without me touching anything. There is no other car manufacturer that is even remotely close to that.
"have been performed primarily in fair-weather driving conditions and over largely decent road surfaces" Tesla using cameras is going to outperform in these conditions. So take this with a grain of salt. Comparative testing should incorporate a variety of conditions (though I understand that is difficult to do in the real world). It's very likely that autonomous driving will only be available if backed by remote support to take over in the <1% of cases where the autonomy fails. Given average conditions across the US which type of system will need less help will deteremine the economic cost of using those systems.
So it's not fully self driving if i have to assist it?
Full Automation with Supervision is a Semantic contradiction. And you know it. Words have meaning. btw: Waymo exists. Without Supervision. DUH After how many tries? Remember when they hit the obv debris on the Highway?
Having to supervise full automation is semantic contradiction and you know it. Words have meaning. They are testing it now? After having released FSD, and then adding (supervised) to it's Name because the Fraud lawsuits kept coming in.
"its fully driving itself, but you have to supervise it since you cant trust it" Any rational Person: So it's not fully driving itself?
> DUH How many vehicles are each of Waymo's puppeteers back at HQ responsible for. You're intentionally conflating things when it fits your narrative, and disconnecting them when it doesn't. It reflects poorly on the strength of your assertion.
He's dug in. I'm guessing he also believes you can't be a real doctor if your practice employs a physicians assistant. Same logic, from what I can tell.
We're counting remotely operated vehicles?
Reddit would have me believe that children die every time my cybertruck leaves Park though….
It's the one of the best driver assistance system, but that's sort of like saying you're the best player in the second division. Good, but not good enough to compete in the big leagues (actual driverless autonomy) yet.
I won’t even lie. Did a trip from LA->SF on FSD and only had 1-2 incidents I had to take over. Pretty damn good
My mom refuses to even use basic autopilot. She tried FSD v12 for 5 minutes and never used it again. Recently she test drove a model Y with v14 and it was the first time she trusted autopilot/FSD. It was extremely impressive.
You’re not assisting anything. You’re supervising it in case something goes wrong. It drives itself from anywhere to anywhere literally.
They’re just ignorant at this point. Mostly haters who won’t ever change their mind. Just echoing whatever mainstream media tells them.
Whoops. Yes. It’s called FSD (supervised).
Even in a traffic crazy city like Toronto, it takes you door to door with one or two interventions at the beginning or end of journey. For many, even that's not required. It even parks. No other car comes close to it. Not even remotely. All other are gimmicks in comparison. Tesla is the only FSD that actually is useable in everyday life. I will have to get feedback from friends on how it handled snow, but I know it works fine in rain.
Ironically I've liked it for a long time and an not super impressed with v14 still. It's not bad but I still have tons of speed and mapping issues and navigation is absolutely horrible. It also makes lots of poor safety decisions like camping in blindspots still. I do love for mad Max handles the unfortunately the car thinks roads are faster than they are near me so it tries to do 30 over in 55mph zones which is a non starter.
I'm enough of a critic on here I've had people accuse me of being anti-Tesla despite owning two hw4 Teslas with FSD purchased outright. I still maintain it's the best ADAS you can personally purchase as a consumer. Nothing else comes close. I've driven less than 6 of the last 750 miles or so my car has driven giving me 99 percent utilization. Very few other systems could even cover 50 percent of my driving.
Autopilot in airplanes is automation. It also requires supervision. Automation and autonomy are not the same thing. FSD is not currently an autonomous vehicle (that implies not needing supervision) but full self driving simply means it can provide driving input in the full set of driving situations and that is essentially true. It doesn't handle ice storms well but basically everything else it's passable as long as you supervise it for errors.
It can't drive itself from NY to London. ;)
They made a deal with Toyota to bring some version of the tech to consumers but who knows what the consumer capabilities will be.
Great analogy! Apple completely faded into obscurity after Newton. Wow, you are so smart and edgy!
It's not L3 capable in a non-genfenced environment. There are select driving circumstances and geographic restrictions that it handles well enough for L3 today though.
99 percent of the way is only half way. You're confusing the challenge of the 9s. Going from 99 percent good enough to 99.9999 percent good enough is exceedingly difficult, especially with an inherently unstable technology like neutral nets. I absolutely love FSD and use it for 99 percent of my driving, but as a software developer that works on high reliability systems that are still a couple orders of magnitude less high reliability than what safety critical systems need to be, I expect FSD is still 4-6 years from general level 4 everywhere.
> 99 percent of the way is only half way. You're confusing the challenge of the 9s. Going from 99 percent good enough to 99.9999 percent good enough is exceedingly difficult, especially with an inherently unstable technology like neutral nets. I am not confusing anything, and you missed my point entirely. I am fully aware that the progression isn't linear and that 99% to 100% is exponentially harder than getting to the first 99%. My point is that I don't care about the last 1% aka L4/L5. 99% (L3) is more than good enough for my and most people's use case.
I’m generally a Tesla non-believer because of the many broken promises. So I say this in that spirit - I’m open to exploring this and trying to more. I’m intrigued.
There really isn't a league for full autonomy though. Waymo is still a weak contender in the space but they are the only one playing ATM. Tesla is getting close to dipping their toe in with the empty car tests in Austin, but still hasn't actually started unsupervised rides.
God's eye looks better and safer than FSD. Not sure where this article gets it's conclusions other than just pretending other options don't exist.
Have you tried the BYD 'Gods eye'? I feel much safer with it, having tried both.
> It's not L3 capable in a non-genfenced environment. There are select driving circumstances and geographic restrictions that it handles well enough for L3 today though. It has no geofence, what are you talking about? We're not talking about Mercedes or BMW that are L3 but only in a very narrow scope and restricted to specific highways. Considering it can do end-to-end with no to minimal interventions with me as a backup, it is for all intents and purposes L3 capable.
My point was the “best driver assistance system on the market” should have “right now” added on the end. When you are really the only one doing it of course you will be the best. Eventually everyone else will catch up. Another point would be that handwriting recognition which was a big thing in the 90s is forgotten now but the company is still doing fine. I’m sure Tesla will be doing just fine is the FSD doesn’t work. Plus, 20 years from now people might not care about FSD
L3 and L4 don't really differ on the percentages, but rather if you can carve out a part that meets the needed percentages and recognize it reliably enough. L3 is just what you can do if you have a system with sufficient 9s only in limited situations and want to be and to roll that out. FSD is close on several narrow bands but I don't know that they are there yet and unfortunately they don't seem to have an interest in going there.
That was on V13. V14 is fundamentally different in many ways and can dodge obstacles. This was this guy's first shot at it, and he's a rando - not even an influencer. Waymo's approach is modular and can only work for specific areas.
It's gotten pretty good on snow/ice in FSD 14. There are a lot of YT videos about it.
For L4/L5, yeah. The long tail of edge cases. For L3? We’re pretty damn close. And getting a few minutes a day more if simi-productivity will be fantastic.
So we needed 14 Versions and more than 10 years to get to mandatory "supervison"... congratulations. Why are there safety drivers in the cab? I am sure V15 will fix it all. That's a just a bad joke.
Waymo is the undisputed leader in the US right now for autonomous ride hailing services. They've been offering rides since 2020 and are currently rapidly expanding their service. Other companies like Zoox are also driving people around in autonomous vehicles now. Just because Tesla isn't in the league doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Of course i am assisting it, if i have to verify for it that does not do anything wrong, and then have to intervene. Why cant it Supervise itself when it is fully SELF driving?
Maybe having to puppeteer your vehicles with central coordination is a better approach? Hence why waymo does not need a safety driver?
> L3 is just what you can do if you have a system with sufficient 9s only in limited situations and want to be and to roll that out. FSD is close on several narrow bands but I don't know that they are there yet and unfortunately they don't seem to have an interest in going there. It’s not that Tesla isn’t interested in L3, it's that L3 is an awkward liability heavy midpoint that doesn’t align with their scale first approach. In day to day use the system already behaves like L3 for long stretches. Attention monitoring has been relaxed in 14.2 to the point that I can look at my phone for up to 30 seconds at a time without an immediate nag. Tesla could relax it further from a capability standpoint but doing so would mean formally assuming legal responsibility, which is a regulatory issue, not a trust issue with the system itself. And importantly, this is the worst FSD will ever be. v14 is a massive improvement over v13 which was already strong. L3/L4/L5 labels don’t really matter to me - I just use the car, and right now it does things no other manufacturer can.
Routing is ruining FSD for me, it’s giving me nonsense routes compared to what I normally take and because of that it’s really hard to use FSD because I don’t want to take those routes during commute hours. Also, Standard does not go fast enough and Hurry makes too many nonsense bullshit lane changes that cause me to actually lose ground because it doesn’t actually have a real reason to change lanes. Autopilot is just better for daily commutes. FSD makes sense sometimes, I only have it now because I subscribed to it in December for when we went to look at Christmas lights. I put in all the addresses I wanted to go to (more bullshit is how you can only add like ten stops on a route and organizing the stops was a bit difficult). But it was cool because these were not routes I normally take and I was in no rush, so it was really helpful. But for my daily commute FSD just isn’t good enough.
Got 1 month for a long road trip during Christmas. After seeing it handle so much over 14 hours of driving I’m not sure I am capable of cancelling the subscription now. My drive to and from work is so easy now.
Maybe it’s me, but the most recent update feels worse than last July’s (subscribed for a month).
eU and a HW3 car. Not being optimistic.
1. Motor Trend is an American publication, where other options *don't* exist. 2. You appear to be in Australia, where you don't have FSD v14. You experience with FSD is "outdated".
HW4 + FSD14 is a different animal
Yeah. And it remains to be seen what Tesla will do with us that have the old stuff when it releases in the EU. Not actually deliver what was on the box doesn’t work so well here
I feel a lot safer with it on as it can watch the sides better than we can
It's incredible. Book a demo drive and try it out, super quick and easy
They specifically have said they want to avoid geo-fencing in the past. I think they may eventually still do an L3 system when they can't go L4 everywhere in the timeframe they hoped but that might just be wishful thinking on my part. I personally disagree about 14 being a massive improvement over 13, but I agree 13 was extremely good. I personally still have lots of issues with 14 and the speed control problems mean I've actually got more issues now than on 13. Navigation on 14 is also abysmally bad. I have it regularly taking 2 mile trips for half mile trips and going the opposite direction of where it's supposed to be trying to go for no reason. I still used 13 and continue to use 14 for 99 percent of my driving though, even if I have more manual adjustments made now than before.
I would love to try it, but am in the US so haven't had the opportunity. Most comparisons I've seen place it several years being hw4 FSD though. I'm very glad for the competition from them and Nvidia though. Tesla needs more competitive pressure.
Yeah. It was the same when Tesla did their first fully automated delivery a few months ago. The car drove on its own, without a driver or person in the car for like an hour or so from the Tesla location to the customer. 1 hour drive, no accident, no driver, no nothing. The car stops 10 ft too short and parks in a no parking zone. Critics: "See, it parked where it shouldn't have. FSD sucks and is not good at all." They pick the weirdest arguments. Sure, the care shouldn't have parked there and there is room for improvement, but that doesn't invalidate the 1hr of perfect driving ...
L3 by definition has to not need a backup unless it asks. Tesla doesn't currently have that capability and they aren't nearly reliable enough off highway or in construction or toll booths for L3. It's only reliable enough to possible be L3 on limited access highways, which would still be a geofence.
Snow is better than a novice but not close to as good as an expert. Ice is still incompetent. I had it lose traction two times in a row on a corner on black ice where the back end broke loose even with ice and snow tires and while it did recover traction appropriately, it proceeded to continue to accelerate into the icy curve and lost control again within 5 seconds after which I took over after the second recovery. Feel free to check out my video of it on r/TeslaFSD.
That's true zoox is playing now but I've not seen enough data yet to say if they have even remote viability. My bigger point was that even Waymo's reliability numbers leave something to be desired and they are far ahead of Tesla still. That's what I mean by saying there isn't really a league. There's a few guys casually kicking a ball around but it's not really a professional sport yet. Doesn't mean Waymo isn't the undisputed leader, but the leader still has a ways to go.
I started the FSD journey with HW4 and V14. Is V13 or V12 that much worse?
> L3 by definition has to not need a backup unless it asks. Tesla doesn't currently have that capability and they aren't nearly reliable enough off highway or in construction or toll booths for L3. It's only reliable enough to possible be L3 on limited access highways, which would still be a geofence. Correct, I am the backup when the car asks me to take over. In day to day use v14.2 already behaves like L3 for very long stretches. Attention monitoring has been relaxed in 14.2 to the point that I can look at my phone for up to 30 seconds at a time without an immediate nag. Tesla could relax it further from a capability standpoint but doing so is a regulatory issue, not a trust issue with the system itself. L3/L4/L5 labels don’t really matter to me - I just use the car, and right now it does what no other manufacturer can.
Have a friend who hates Tesla because of Felon Husk's shenanigans. That said, they have aging parents, and once they experienced Tesla's current FSD, they were sold on getting a Tesla for them. Allows their parents to retain their independence for a few more years.
Does 90 percent of mg driving
lol Mad Max matches my highway driving too. though Chill is usually more my backroad style..
I was pretty skeptical the first time I tried it, but I tried it a year later and it was extremely good. I don’t drive enough normally to warrant it, but I have a long trip coming up and I’m absolutely planning to buy it for that month. If it was cheaper I’d definitely want it all the time.
But everyone else was tested in the same conditions too though.
Holy crap -- MotorTrend didnt' bow to politics or advertisers for once..
"The only one doing it" Nissan Pro Pilot Assist GM Supercruise Ford's solution have been around for many years. You should read up a little bit before making statements like this.
Yes - Even HW4 with V13 was a substantial step down. It really struggled with parking lots, and still had phantom braking issues. A few people report a worse experience with 14 than 13, but the vast majority prefer 14 over 13.
Someone go check on /r/selfdrivingcars
Ive gotta agree with you here. honestly even assessing waymo as succeeding in the space I find.. challenging. Let alone that they're beating Tesla. Waymo's 'product' has been in development for 17 years, 7 years longer than even Elon's broken ass promises for performance from when they started selling it. And after 17 years, they still operate in less than a dozen cities and (doing a quick check) operate in less than 5% of the urbanized areas of the country. And living in the San Francisco area I can support that their reliability as a service (being a rider) is fine, but not any better than current FSD at least. Still plenty of stuttered decisions when interacting with other vehicles and pedestrians, though it probably handles the general environment slightly better because of the way their tech works. But their reliability tech wise still has huge gaps. Cars blocking intersections, stuck in parking lots, causing huge shutdowns during outages that werent planned for etc. But whether we measure from the first product comparable to waymos current performance (and Im using comparable loosely here); V12 started rolling just a couple years ago. Or from the first real relases - 2016 when tesla started selling fsd, 2017 when waymo began testing with passengers... Waymo isnt even playing in the same league yet. And Im from from an expert but from what I DO know it doesnt seem like their target is to do what FSD does (100% drive anywhere coverage), and their tech doesnt seem feasible to deploy on that level anyway. FSD's still got plenty of issues, and Tesla has plenty more but purely on 'ADAS' performance? They're not even playing the same game.
Do you have winter tires on? Even the best human drivers struggle with ice unless they have excellent tires.
Let me guess. You haven't used it and are either a troll or just bitter? Already Tesla has some of their vehicles running around without supervision (for employee trips only right now). Their progress in the past 6 months has been monumental. Every new update continues to amaze me. How is it a joke when it's almost completely there? Yeah old FSD was jank, but the reality of the current software is incredible. Un-monitored will occur in the 14 branch, because it is already happening. My guess is that they are really waiting for production of the Cybercab (soon) and testing to finish on that end while allowing the software to continue to be polished. Waymo trained the hell out of its fleet before unleashing them unsupervised here in Austin (well, mostly - they also have humans that can step in remotely if necessary). They even sent cars around without customers or supervision before allowing customers as riders. Tesla has been doing the same with hundreds of Model Y's, with the same path. But Tesla's approach is distinctive in that it is not modular, and should work pretty much anywhere.
"even with ice and snow tires". It was not struggling, it was outright failing. It followed at unsafe distances, went faster around the same corner after losing traction and accelerated going downhill to faster speeds than climbing. I actually had to disengage on one steep hill because it was going so fast I wouldn't have been able to recover it even with AWD and ice and snow tires, as someone that's lived in upstate NY for 41 years and driven here for 26.
The labels dont matter to you, but the liability does. For L3 or above, the driver doesn't need to assume the liability when the system is activated and the manufacturer does.
> The labels dont matter to you, but the liability does. For L3 or above, the driver doesn't need to assume the liability when the system is activated and the manufacturer does. I am aware
It just drove me 2000 mile to Florida and back. It is real, and addicting. I’m a worse driver because of my reliance on it. I’ve forgotten how to drive like I used to.
Interesting, though this conflicts with some of the videos I've seen on YT of it in action in the snow where it slowed way down.
I'm talking about ice, not snow. Snow is much better. Ice it seems to end up thinking it is rain. I did a detailed snow review in my post history as well, but the short version, it also goes faster down hills than up them which is risky, follows slightly too close at times but not as bad as in ice, tries risky maneuvers on curves rather than waiting for straight sections and doesn't understand that raised roads are more slippery than non raised roads. Overall from last year to this year it improved 90 percent of the way from where it was to where it should be for snow performance but still needs more understanding.
I know there there are struggles with icy conditions, but I can say it handles dark, foggy, and rainy conditions (combined) very well. IMO it doesn't _need_ superhuman perception but should recognized conditions where it's simply unsafe to drive (whiteout, etc.). Had they had the adverse conditions to test it in, they'd likely be equally or more impressed, but may be able to note that it needs more caution/training around icy conditions (which I haven't experienced myself but noted from other users).
Old guy with '25 M3P (traded in a '23 M3P) here, FSD does 99 percent or more of my driving. Pinched a nerve in my leg a couple of weeks back, had to go yesterday to get some tests, FSD drove me to the hospital, parked and waited while I limped in, when I came back out I used summon and then FSD drove me home. A few weeks back it stopped in the middle of the road around 10PM, seems someone in dark clothing was crossing, nor my son and I had seen them. Last week it stopped to let pedestrians cross even tho there was no crosswalk (nobody behind me). Not perfect but getting there and it has much better night vision than I!
FSD is the primary reason I bought Model 3 in 2018, I still enjoy using AP in my Model Y. However, at this point, IMO Waymo is table stakes - if you need me to have my eyes on the road, you’re a generation behind. I get that FSD is the best thing available to a consumer product, but Waymo has clearly demonstrated for years that you can be doing better and you’re not.
sure, but those conditions (good) aren't representative of general conditions in this country where a lot of the states experience winter and storms and bad roads etc etc etc. the thing about automonous driving is that 100% is likely impossible and 99% is MUCH more expensive than 100%.
You mean Motor Trend, the outlet that awarded the Model S the Car of the Year award unanimously, and then followed it up years later with their Ultimate Car of the Year award, beating out cars from the previous 70 years? That Motor Trend?
96% here, with the other 4% going HAM on the M3P to show my friends and family how fast this thing is, lol
Totally agree. My wife and I have driven \~10K miles on FSD. The 14.2.x versions are drama free. Even saved the car from a deer hit. We are shooting for 70% FSD / 30% manual. It will leave our garage and drive us to our vacation home four hours away with no intervention. Freeways, city snarl, twisting backroads, everything. It even parks itself at a Supercharger along the way. It deftly handles our long twisting gravel driveway and parks itself in front of the house. Frankly, there is no need to even be awake when the robot is driving. Unfortunately the cabin nanny gets upset.
Apple almost completely failed after Newton. If Apple hasn't bought NeXT and brought Jobs back it likely would have folded into oblivion.
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Yes indeed, thanks!
only a few more months until unsupervised hopefully
It’s fantastic. I’m at 75%fsd since 14. My biggest issue with are stop signs. Crawls up to them, stop for what feels like forever, then creeps out tentatively. Super annoying and definitely not how I would manually go through them. Feel bad for people behind me at stop signs. I wind up using the accelerator a bit to nudge the car up to the signs quicker and then to go a tad sooner, especially at 4 ways with complete views in all directions and nothing visible for miles. But again, absolutely love FSD overall. Main reason we haven’t considered rivians suv to replace my wive’s telluride.
Mine just pulled over for a fire truck approaching from behind that I hadn't heard yet. And it slammed on the brakes for a squirrel running across the street at dusk that I never would have seen in time. I presume it checked for tailgaters first.
Super good when “supervised”. Robotaxi is years away and way behind competitors…
You believe in the promises and improvememts of a product, that is called Full Self Driving for 10 years now, by a guy who promised us to land ob Mars 5 years ago.
I was going to say, they've had some pretty high praise for Tesla in the past.
I appreciate your opinion but it's anectodal data. My base opinion is that Tesla as a company is predicated on solving the autonomy problem and 99% won't get you there are there's a pretty large consensus that camera based driving simply won't solve that last 1%. The economic model of a 100% self-driving car and a 99% one is _vastly_ different and a 99% one doesn't pay back on the current company valuation. This test doesn't really give much information on who is more likely to achieve a near-100% self driving and whether anyone will. The current state doesn't mean that much and the test is not comprehensive enough to apply generally.
The EU is who has massively neutered what Tesla can do there, so hard to fault Tesla too much.
I mean they are going for engagement. Beating up on Tesla has been fashionable for long enough that you get more engagement by being a contrarian.
”just wait until their competition gets their LiDar working! Then Tesla is finished!”
True. They still sold it before it was even close to ready. But, here is to hoping!
I would assume the car would rather run over a squirrel than cause a rear end yeah
Yes, obviously
Don’t let r/electriccars see this.
lol true
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AP and a 2018 will not be FSD V14, worlds apart. It's not even close. If you have not tried a HW4 car with V14 you have not tried FSD at all.
For me, and the MotorTrend testers, and many others, v14 FSD has finally reached the status "default" method of travel. Where that all fits into your model, I don't know. But it's driven >99% of over 1,300 miles for me in all sorts of conditions so far -- the parts it didn't drive were parking preferences. And that's without me _trying_ to be 100%. It's just the way I prefer driving now. No award like this is ever going have incredibly comprehensive testing, so it's all based on a collection of anecdotes. I'll never buy a vehicle without this sort of capability now. I'm glad to know that Rivian is working on their solution and hope it'll be quite workable and releasable in a year. IF Tesla reaches level 4 unsupervised, I'd love it. If they don't, I'm still amazed at what I can and do own.
Agree on everything you've said. It's sad that Musk went full monster, and I don't blame those who won't touch a Tesla for that reason. But I'm glad that after years of lies/bluffs about the timeline, we finally have fully competent self-driving (in most situations). I'd be happy with this level of capability for the rest of my life... the fact that it'll continue to get better is unreal. It's hard to be mad at all the delays in the past when we finally have the software that drives us around. IF unsupervised happens, it's yet another paradigm shift... being able to travel while working, extending personal transport to people denied it before, etc. What a time to be alive. What a shame the genius let his evil side take control.
I have no doubt that at the current time Tesla has the best self driving. My point was rather that Tesla, as a company, is now priced as a bet on achieving 100% self-driving in order to make fully autonomous robotaxis and allow for owners to let their cars for hire. The conditions of the test don't give a reliable opinion on whether Tesla (as a company) can go on as a going concern if they fail to achieve 100% as the car business itself is probably not making money anymore (and only ever did due to pollution credits). The difference in the economic model between 100% and 99.x% is huge as it will require manned backup and the latter won't support the current valuation of the company. So while yes, the test gives you a snapshot-in-time of the current state of autonomous driving available it doesn't really answer the question generally for the public at large (which live in conditions not tested) or it's salience in reasoning the future of Tesla as a company. Someone else won last year, someone else may win next year but the only real questions are if anyone will achieve full self driving and if it will be Tesla that does so because the alternative is a severe crash of it's equity that may question it's ability to continue as a going concern.
I rode in my buddy’s V14, I get what you’re saying. But it’s not a meaningful upgrade to me if I have to watch the road. I could accept the incremental progress spanning years and iterations until Waymo showed that it could just work.
If I ever own a Tesla I don’t think I’ll be able to convince my mom or grandparents to trust FSD. Hell I’d probably be barred from using it while they’re in the car.
That’s damning really.. it’s the best… (yeah!!)… driver assist….(what… assist and not self driving…??)
Me too. I tried one out last week in Nashville traffic. I am blown away. It is the most impressive tech I’ve seen on the consumer market
I’m not sure what this has to do with the state of autopilot/FSD in Europe?
Not offered in my country. Doing a test drive wouldn’t make me any more hopeful about the timelines. I’ve followed the development closely on YouTube. I know what it’s capable of. That’s just not my point. Regulation and slow mowing regulators are.
I was just speaking to the quality of FSD since you can't try it yourself.
Musk is the opposite of a monster. He's helping free speech around the world.
/s?
Finally some acknowledgement!
You comment does not make sense if that was your intention. It sounds like you are doubtful about its capabilities. You seem to refer to availability, which is not the point of the original post.
The problem is, the critical component is the AI, not the sensors as Waymo’s problems in recent times are showing. Your car can be bristling with a ridiculous array of sensors, but if your AI can’t handle a traffic light not working or roadwork on a road that alters your carefully mapped routes, you’re stuffed. That’s why Waymo (and Cruise when it was operating) have such large teams of human monitors to take over remote control of the car when it encounters situations that it’s AI can’t handle. They’re not truly autonomous when humans have to take over regularly - Cruise previously indicated it was seeing thousands of miles between remote operator take-overs, until with that recent incident where they ran over and dragged a pedestrian under the car, they admitted that their autonomous vehicles trigger a request for human help every four to five miles. Makes one wonder what Waymo’s remote operator intervention rate is in the real world as well. The San Fransisco blackout highlights that it must be very frequent for the entire fleet to have been bricked.
can't help but wonder how the perennial Tesla/FSD haters will try to twist this one...
> like camping in blindspots still. Sounds like the car has been trained on Bay Area drivers -_-
Obviously not. All of Reddit used to love him until he stopped flirting with the Left, so they're incredibly biased.
It’s fantastic. My biggest annoyance at this point is when it goes to park it will back into park in a wide open area with free spots all around and it could have easily pulled through. Makes you look like a lunatic 😂 Just now it backed me into a spot. To the left and right there are 3 completely open spots. Same with the row behind it, that is the backside of the row it just backed me into.
r/driverassistedcars?
> drive over the speed limit for long distances. This is easily done in Hurry and Mad Max modes, by adjusting the speed range beyond legal limits. A FSD that only goes the speed limit will be completely useless in the US. Though I understand in other countries people may actually drive the speed limit.
Just saw on the news musk has started a “subscription only” for the FSD. Didn’t see that coming 😂😂
How’s he helping? He’s enabling paedos make indecent images of kids etc and doing bugger all to stop it. His 2 “safety” officers resigned in protest because not only did he not make it more difficult for sick individuals to make indecent images,he actually made it EASIER!!! Ya couldn’t make it up!
Not sure if Elon will be thrilled or disappointed for FSD to be called the best "Driver Assistance System". Haha.
No surprised, it's what keeps me with Tesla. I woke up and bought my MSLR randomly in 2024 for my bday. I thought "I'll try this for 6 months to a year, sell it and try a Taycan, Etron or Lucid. Test drove the Lucid thinking it had something like FSD, not even close. I think I'm stuck here lol.
FSD will not cross painted lines in a parking lot. It will use the aisles and follow the traffic pattern like an aircraft landing at an airport. downwind leg, base leg, and final approach. As it should do.
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