Musk said it's "perfect driving". Ashok says, "It’s an amazing experience!"
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How many takes did this require
Prob 1, FSD 14 is amazing.
I’m testing the last version (supervised). I have 40 trips already and it’s pretty amazing. I have taken over once or twice but for very minor issues. It’s made minor mistakes and corrected on its own every time.
Who knows but given that I'm on a 2018 Model 3 with HW3 FSD. Driverless is pretty much there, like extremely close. I could only imagine what it's like on HW4 or even HW5. In 2026 my car will be 8 years old, being able to drive itself handsfree is surreal to me.
Or how pre-scripted/programmed was the route?
Happy to hear HW3 is working well
FSD up through 13 definitely felt like it only worked on "standard" roads and struggled with anything odd. FSD 14 is a massive improvement - I've been impressed. It is much better at handling uncommon or unusual things. And it makes me feel much more comfortable. That being said I still prefer driving to using FSD - and I think a lot of people will stay that way.
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I think this is highly route dependent. Some roads just don’t work very well with FSD. Bad speed limits or incorrect mapping can just totally ruin it. I’ve been driving the same routes for the last four months and honestly the car has gotten worse on some of them. Though… it has gotten better on others. Right now the single biggest issue to me is speed limit detection. It’s a huge issue when not on four lane highways.
I too have a 2018 model 3 and I think about what you say almost every time I use FSD.
“Pretty much there” is what Elon have been saying for 10 yrs (remember his promise of L4 unsupervised cross country driving by 2016?). I have HW4 and FSD 14. It’s great but still requires interventions nearly every drive. It cannot handle anything beyond moderate rain or snow, is absolutely flummoxed by parking lots/ramp meters. It’s great driving assistance, but is no where near “full” self driving
I can’t imagine many, if more than one. I’m on fsd for virtually every trip now with no issues.
The key is unsupervised / Tesla taking liability. Without it, you're right that relatively few people will use FSD no matter how good it gets.
If you've used version 14 on HW4 you wouldn't be saying this.
I tried it again yesterday (2024 model Y). The car attempted to make an unscheduled right hand turn into someone's driveway. I still dont't trust it and doubt that I ever will.
I have, and I agree. Still unreliable on rural roads.
It’s the classic 80/20 rule that shows up everywhere. Getting FSD 80% of the way there is the easy part. The last 20% is way harder. Going from 99% to 100% is infinitely harder than 0% to 1%.
Great, now make the changes to HW3 cars as promised.
Honestly, I don’t see anything very impressive. The streets aren’t busy. Earlier versions of FSD supervised have had zero issues with this sort of route with this sort of traffic. There just happens to not be someone in the car. What we don’t know is whether someone is supervising it remotely, I suspect they were, given the stakes were something to happen to Elon.
I haven’t had any problems myself with speed limit detection. It did miss an exit and to reroute it put us on an unlit country road at night with almost no painted lines separating the two sides of the single lane road. I was very curious as to how it would handle things as I saw lights coming towards us from the opposite direction. To its credit, it hugged the left side of the road and handled the whole thing perfectly. I was very impressed. It’s still got edge cases to deal with of course but it’s already far better than most human drivers.
The cameras-only approach to FSD still feels misguided. It's like having a blind driver and a guy sitting in the passenger seat describing the road to them with a dictionary. The FSD solution is still a blind driver but with a slightly better dictionary.
I live in a gated community. My M3 has never “seen” the gate. If I called a Robo Taxi to pick me up I would end up with a huge bill to repair the gate. And the gate isn’t even moving.
I live in a gated community. My M3 has never “seen” the gate. The gate isn’t even moving. If I called a robot taxi all I would get is a bill for a broken gate.
I suspect that what will happen is that Tesla will start offering coverage for unsupervised FSD on their own brand insurance products, and that as a result the rest of the industry will slowly come under pressure to follow suit. They'll start offering it as a paid add on (eg. £50 per year to cover Tesla FSD without affecting your main policy NCD or something), and over time as and when the statistics prove it to be safer than the average driver.
Do you have a hardware 3 or 4 model 3? Is it a new or old style? Because FSD 12 vs 14 is a massive difference
And yet Tesla's FSD is ahead of every other car manufacturer's solution in terms of capability and ability despite all the others using LiDAR. I'd agree with you if there were other companies streaking ahead and leaving Tesla in the dust, but reality is that Waymo and Tesla are leading the pack, with the major car manufacturers lagging far behind.
Is unsupervised FSD using a different version/software stack from supervised FSD, in the same way supervised FSD uses a different stack from “navigate on autopilot”?
v14 “lite” already discussed for this.
Logged into my account just to share my experiences. I live in a rural area. HW4 1. My car keeps pulling over for cars that are not emergency vehicles. A tow truck coming at me with red and yellow lights. A caution light. Etc 2. Car struggles to commit to merging on the highway. Blinkers goes on, starts to merge, stops, then merges 3. 4 way stops. Car still jitters at certain intersections and requires pedal
What does that say about every human driving with only two blinking eyes, with blind spots , only facing forward ; that can get distracted?
In terms of speed limit detection, why can’t Tesla’s share that information with each other? If your car misses the sign it should still know the speed based on data from other cars
Still nothing for Europe, huh?
This is also my biggest problem. Until Tesla can figure out speed limits and driving at a sane speed on them (the car completely disregards my speed limit offset), removing the ability for the driver to manually set a speed is infuriating.
Source?
God you guys always find something to complain about.
From all the complaints I've been reading about 14.* We're better off on HW3. I can set the speed! The lane changes are fine. Of course, next week might be a different story. Hopefully they'll fix the HW4 software, but I'm not 100% on that.
Your experience is different from mine. It handles rain pretty well and even keeps in lane for those heavy rains at night where sometimes it's difficult to see lane markings. But this has always been the case even before the latest FSD version. It's definitely full self driving because it's able to complete end to end between local and highway streets. People can knock Elon or Tesla on timelines but unless there's a comparable tech that's available to the public to buy, then it wouldn't matter since they're market leading. The thing I intervene the most is parking because I'm in NYC. I can parallel park in tighter spaces than the car can.
It was in a Q3 earnings call. The development team shared they're planning on releasing a FSD lite version. They conveyed many of the engineers had HW3 cars. It would be a stripped down version of the current v14.
Wow, what will it take to impress you? Forget what Musk says, or his exaggerated schedules, if you’ve watched the progress of FSD since 2019 when it didn’t exist it is beyond a doubt almost there. Personally I don’t care about parking lots or driving beyond moderate rain or snow. I can navigate a parking lot myself. Weather conditions I shouldn’t drive in, I wouldn’t expect FSD to either. Besides, it’s the other guy I’m concerned about in bad weather running into me. So I avoid it. If you’re going to cling to the word “FULL” like it’s the holy grail you don’t understand marketing. In a very general way it’s already much safer than human drivers but there will always be some situations (at least for a long time) that will create issues the software cannot solve to your satisfaction. The focus has to be on critical interventions that prevent a collision.
That doesn’t really address the hardware issue. We bought FSD with the expectation that we’d be getting the full version.
They addressed this too. Once they know exactly what is needed for full fsd, then they’ll work out how to upgrade HW3 to that system (whether HW4 or 5 or…..). Seems reasonable. So many HW3 out there, you only want to do it once and in the most efficient way.
God forbid people want to receive the product they paid thousands of dollars for.
Continues twiddling thumbs as I’ve been doing for 5+ years
It’s just the one thing really, isn’t it?
Is anyone surprised? Europe is too busy suing and regulating tech companies.
FSD difference is not dramatic between HW3 and 4. Certainly not worth trading in just to upgrade for that reason alone.
Absolutely true. The remaining problems are infinitely harder to solve. A good analogy is golf. Easy to break 100 and improvement comes fast at first but as you advance to a zero handicap from the blue tees every stroke of improvement is 10X harder. Like a sliding logarithmic scale. The last nuance of improvement will never be reached. The 2 steps forward and 1 step back is becoming easier to see.
> I still prefer driving to using FSD Absolute opposite here. My 2026 Y with 96% FSD and rising. Running errands & going to friend's houses is not the "I love driving!!!" experience I pretended it was. I'm all for a beautiful sunday drive though.
Let’s imagine you have “Star Trek like” sensors on your car. They won’t stop some reckless person from rear ending you in a blizzard or fog. In some conditions cars should be off the road. The biggest advantage Teslas have is the simultaneous viewing in all directions. Most pedestrians get hit because drivers swivel their head back and forth, left and right then move the car right while they are still looking left. This can’t happen with cameras looking all around the car.
I agree that’s a big issue. Unfortunately to be driverless they have to take speed control away from the driver. I liked it when the scroll wheel could control speed.
The car had a ghost barking episode when my wife was driving. The truck behind was super pissed. He came infront of her and brakes checked her thrice before eventually going away.
#3 happens to me every single time at a four-way stop near my house. Super annoying.
I have an S with HW3 and an X with HW4, I use FSD 80% of the time on both. I can tell you for certain FSD is better on 14.x.
Another 96% here. Less than 100 miles of wheel time in last 1800+ miles. Combo of city and interstate driving. Feels like I am wasting the heated steering wheel I wished I had in my original model 3. It's rarely touched.
That would work well right now when there are only about 10 to 15% of drivers who use FSD. Once they prove the most serious life altering accidents are not caused by FSD (maybe prevented by it) insurance companies should react to it.
The way I understood it, is that they will not leave anyone behind. Whether by making a lighter version, or by making HW5 backwards-compatible with HW3 cars etc.
There are problems with navigation making errors currently. Your focus should be on safety. Even if the nav is confused (temporarily) FSD wouldn’t hit another car or a pedestrian. Thats more important than being confused about the wrong driveway. They will fix that.
It sounds like stalling to me. If they can drag this on for another 2 years, then it will keep reducing the number of HW3 cars they have to retrofit since a lot of people will sell their cars back to Tesla as trade-in (drivetrain warranty for HW3 cars will be expiring soon). Also the total number of HW3 cars don’t matter - only the HW3 cars that purchased FSD will get the retrofit? When HW3 got released, only the people who purchased FSD got the free retrofit from HW2.5 to HW3 FSD computer.
you are hilariously gullible
Actually am not. Have owned a M3 since 2018. I don’t trust a word they say. I have just bought a used X with HW3 completely expecting never to have anything better hardware wise (or software). I’m the opposite of believing these ‘promises’. But they do say these things and the comment I was replying to was saying they hadn’t addressed hardware in the ‘announcement’.. was just informing him that they had. And seasons greetings.. stay polite 💕
Won't solve their problem, they just kick the can down the road.
Totally! It’s a total stall. And yes, it’ll only be for FSD HW3, why upgrade the hardware otherwise?
Why would I trade in a paid off car? $4-7k per drive train, $5-10k per battery is still cheaper than a new car and you can finance those 🥴 $57k for my performance new.
I think it's just the issue of Musk and his false promises 2020 here and I don't believe anything they say, and I didn't buy a Tesla for FSD. However, they feel like they're slowly abandoning the older cars.
Yeah totally it’s the false promises and flip flopping. But also, I can’t think on any set of cars that have literally not been left behind as much as these. I get into my 2018 M3 and it still feels like a new and futuristic car to me 🤷♂️ I hate fsd so if you take that out of it, OTA updates mean it’s a very different car than the one I bought etc etc
Pretty sure Tesla’s unspoken strategy is to just wait for HW3 cars to become deprecated so they can sidestep this promise altogether. Until the they’ll make little updates to sound like they’re still looking at HW3, but it will never come. Just buying time.
Yeah I recently thought I’d get to use it for the bulk of a 15 hour drive but it couldn’t handle the two lane freeway at all. It would speed up behind huge trucks in the right lane and then get trapped trying to pass in the left lane by a stream of cars. Did great on surface streets though.
Sounds to me FSD is good for legally blind drivers.
They said it would be able to do autonomy, not that it will be as good as all future hardware ever created. Hypothetically it could be 2x safer than human drivers, but HW4 may be 10x safer. That’s to be expected as hardware changes over time.
I am impressed, but hearing it’s “pretty much there” repeatedly for over a decade gets tiresome. FSD has solved 95% of driving but struggles with the remaining 5% which includes life and death situations. Moderate rain or snow is normal driving weather for 99% of people and it is not a “full” self driving system until it can fully drive the vehicle. I agree, avoiding collisions is the most important. Unfortunately, FSD needs intervention on a regular basis to avoid collisions.
There could be strategic reasons for that, lots of HW3 cars may have been traded in / resold - and they might have more credible arguments against not covering second+ owners. (original 2018 with HW3, I ain’t trading in until he upgrades my car or gives stupidly large trade-in incentives)
Why? Cameras are like human eyes. Cameras see what the human eyes see. Logically, it makes sense that cameras would be enough given that’s all we’re using now as humans. However, from the limited things I’ve heard, LIDAR could offer additional robustness to the technology. But cameras is all that should be needed.
It handles light rain, fine but moderate to heavy rain FSD shuts down and I need to take over. It is also struggles with snow, which covers a large part of the country this time of year period. It repeatedly goes into the wrong lane, tries to drive over curbs and shuts down if too much snow is on the ground well human drivers manage these conditions with minimal effort. Tesla’s marketing speak has always been misleading to consumers. They have a good product, and I wish they would let it work on its merits instead of making false claims and predictions. When my Tesla can complete lost rides without safety interventions, I would call it full self driving, but it remains a long way off and the improvements have been small and incremental over the past few years.
> In terms of speed limit detection, why can’t Tesla’s share that information with each other? If your car misses the sign it should still know the speed based on data from other cars If Tesla lets every car broadcast sign detections what if car A misreads a sign or a sign is blocked or obscured, then car B could pick up a wrong speed limit. So you don't really solve anything, how does the car trust whether its sign reading is the correct one, or the one it just got from another Tesla is the correct one? To avoid that you'd need a verification system and that requires infrastructure. Infrastructure requires processing power, bandwidth, and latency. These are resources that Tesla needs for self-driving and all the other in car processes it's doing. So, it's a good idea in theory but it's messier and computationally expensive to implement in practice.
The Robotaxis are running a different version. They have been for a while now, per Tesla back when the service first launched.
Ya and this will be the problem going forward. Some routes will be over optimized causing degraded performance on others…
Then why have so many cameras for a 360 degree view when humans only have 2 eyes? Vision-only is a stupid hill to die on, when more advanced sensors are available to make the problem easier to solve.
This is my fear. They’ll build out for the robotaxi fleet and mess us up.
Waymo is far behind Tesla, partially because of LIDAR. If Google bets the entire company on Waymo, then Waymo is only about three years behind Tesla. If they are not willing to bet the company on Waymo, then they are 10 to 20 years behind Tesla
Your posting of this is disingenuous. The headline is clearly meant to say that there is a video of Elon and Ashok taking a ride in a Tesla driving unsupervised. That is absolutely not the content of the video, and you knew that. The article merely mentions comments by Elon, but does not include video of both people.
I wouldn't expect Tesla to handle snow conditions. Sounds to me you're having a tough time with Tesla handling tough weather conditions where it would be the same with normal drivers. Sucks that it's not working out for you or up to your expectations. Hope you find another solution where Tesla falls short on. For me I'm ok with FSD working out 10 months vs 2 months cumulative worth of bad weather conditions.
Right? Or at least let us transfer to a used HW4 car. I don’t want to take another massive depreciation hit just to use a feature I paid for 8 years ago
I would probably do it just to show off to friends and use it as a party trick, or to have some fun in the back while the car drives 😛. Other than that sitting in the driver seat while FSD drives works just as well with a slight added sense of security and takeover ability. I wouldn't use my car as a robotaxi while I work because I wouldn't want a bunch of random people getting inside my car smelling it up. Would make it even harder to keep it in the clean immaculate condition
They are selling software, what are you talking about? When I purchase FSD, it’s software and there was no disclaimer that I would get a worse version.
Well kind of someone buying an early generation 386 and wanted to be upgraded to a pentium 4 not easy and too many challenges, hardware changes and some changes will Never get you to the pentium 4 level. I am happy with my FSD 12.x just keep Improving that.
Yeah but the software is going to be limited by the hardware. The hardware is expected to be good enough for autonomy (which is what Tesla sold you), but it’s not going to be as good as all future hardware which therefore limits the software (eventually). This is how all hardware & software works. You can’t run the most advanced modern software on a computer from 5 years ago…
Yeah, I would totally take a transfer to a used hw4 car. I also worry they are just kicking the can down the road. So I figure the more vocal we all are with hw3…. Squeaky wheel will get you greasing!
Because humans can swivel their heads 360 degrees, including through the use of mirrors lol LIDAR would provide a more detailed solution but would increase the cost significantly. Not good for a mass-produced vehicle intended for everyday people.
LiDAR has dropped in cost significantly, but it’s also not the only choice. There are quite a few, they’re insignificant in cost, and it’s stupid not to use one.
You could use multiple detections to provide a baseline. The bigger problem is if a sign changes or you have temporary sign. However this is similar to how the brain works. After a while you build your own map, which is why we sometimes miss changes or continuously miss details on routes we take often.
I’m losing track of all the different swamys. Who’s this guy
I’m glad you know more than some of the world’s smartest engineers at Tesla. You should apply.
Some people live where there's lots of snow year round. Just accepting that it's never going to work in the snow isn't really an acceptable solution.
I’m sure many engineers at Tesla agree. But they have to cash the check that Elon’s mouth wrote.
> You could use multiple detections to provide a baseline. The bigger problem is if a sign changes or you have temporary sign. However this is similar to how the brain works. After a while you build your own map, which is why we sometimes miss changes or continuously miss details on routes we take often. Sure, but that doesn't solve the problem of having to use the car's resources to do it. This solution would be computational expensive to implement, especially considering that Tesla already does this via the backend - cars upload dash cam video and Tesla aggregates and validates that data. Direct car-to-car comms may be a thing in the future when Tesla has more computational resources to play with but it's not a viable solution today.
These content farming posts are so annoying. 🤦🏼
If adding LIDAR would provide significant advantage in allowing Tesla to achieve their goal of self driving , then they would do it 100%. They wouldn’t self sabotage all the work and money they’re putting into self driving, only to glance over something as simple as “just add LIDAR”. If they would, they would be missing out on trillions in profit and market share. Not only that, they have a legal obligation as a publicly traded company. More likely, they did the research and conducted tests to arrive at the conclusion LIDAR doesn’t provide significant advantage at least relative to the drawbacks and cost. At a company like Tesla, they’re doing advanced research and doing their due diligence.
Please enlighten me what other autonomous vehicle operates on snow. You encounter other issues with road salt and snow caking up on the side of the car and backup camera. This happens even with regular cars. You encounter other issues as well with road salt caking up on the windshield and if it's below freezing temps good luck on having your wipers ejecting windshield washer fluid because it's frozen. Just the other day I saw a guy carrying a jug of water splashing in the front of his windshield and have their wipers clear it. You say it's not an acceptable solution, so then what would be the solution? Have you come up with a way to have cars operate safely on snow? Sounds like a comment from a person who has never driven in sub zero temps with snow before.
All of what you suggest would take place at a normal company. Again, you keep saying LiDAR, but that’s not the only choice. Many manufacturers are moving on from LiDAR to better or cheaper alternatives.
2 & 3 have been much better for me with 14.2.2.1
It's become a game to me lol. I regret those unnecessary miles not using it. It took awhile to get from 95% to 96%. Any idea how to put a "pause" on the counter if someone else/profile? I switched to my wife's profile and the % stayed the same so I assume it adds to the counter
Elon himself stands to make trillions off of Tesla. No one would cover up technology that could make Tesla worth many trillions with unlimited profits. Especially something as simple as “add this sensor”. Even if that were the case, an engineer could whistleblow and sue Tesla on behalf of shareholders. The simple truth is that they did the analysis and research, and have the data that confirms which technology provides the best value and opportunity. Tesla is doing advanced research and experimenting with things we have no idea of. As a for profit company, they’ll do whatever it takes to advance their interests. Your notion that their self sabotaging makes 0 sense.
Wasn’t really an expectation. It was more a promise. Elon said in 2017 the hardware at the time was already capable of level 5. https://preview.redd.it/y8wkbb7nhe9g1.jpeg?width=1970&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9f7d3c41ea884adf3f81aedcef655bb01de0e61
My main concern really is the single point of failure possible when the cameras get blocked or blinded (which happens all the time in my 3).
Most human drivers in most cars can operate just fine in snow. And in fact they do it every day. If tesla can only reliably operate in nice weather, it'll never replace human driving or be able to act as a robotaxi in many major cities. At the least, tesla could come up with better solutions to keeping the cameras clear of rain and snow.
Ahh, are you also the type who also believes AWD operates better on snow also? I don't trust other people driving in snow. Unless I see at minimum winter tires equipped on their cars, I steer clear away and keep a safe stopping distance. If the Tesla is equipped with studded snow tires, windshield wiper chemicals that don't freeze, then yes I would trust it more than your typical human driver. But let's be real here, you're setting the bar high and moving the goal post simply because you don't like Elon or Tesla. Instead of acknowledging how far FSD has come with only relying on cameras and proving naysayers wrong. Only for the naysayers say "the car can't operate by itself in snow. Unacceptable." Really?
My 2017 X FSD is dangerous garbage. I have driven two HW4 Y's in the past few weeks and the FSD is impressive. I drove (actually rode) in a new Y earlier this week on a 10 mile mixed freeway and suburban streets and did not have to override it once. The only way my X will do that is with a major camera and computer update. I'm not holding my breath.
Agreed. It's fairly impressive, but nowhere near "perfect" and not something I would use unsupervised. I've also had it turn right 100ft before my scheduled left turn, run a red light, and miss exits because it doesn't get over into the left lane before 0.1 miles before the exit. I also hate that it can't seem to hold a steady speed, even on an empty highway. Seems to vary between 12mph over and 5 below for no reason reason.
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This is part of the 5G telecom network vision. It won’t be easy to make it reliable and secure.
Yes I am aware that I cannot expect indefinite hardware beyond what they promise. But they promised full self driving, not worse full self driving. If that takes better hardware until a certain point, they haven’t delivered on the terms of that purchase until the hardware satisfies the software. I am sure there is a point where they will confidently say it is full self driving and no more hardware upgrades are needed, but that point is not imminent.
Having lived in Austin for a few years, I find it a bit odd that every recent video clip is taken on a small stretch of South Congress Like, folks, in the entirety of the Austin metroplex, there are _plenty_ of more interesting roads
I’ve never seen any of that.
HW3 cars won’t get any of the newer changes. The promises also only apply to those that bought FSD with their car, not subscribers.
I wish this were true. As a long-term Tesla owner, I know it isn't. Turning into an unpaved driveway at 55MPH is indeed a safety issue, especially since the next scheduled turn was 7 miles ahead.
Since you just added the 55 MPH thing I don’t believe you. Don’t believe you’re a long term owner either. Maybe not an owner at all. Maybe just someone who shorts tesla stock. Troll somewhere else. Your credibility is gone.
well your experience is obviously more valuable than others’, so they must be lying
This is my third Tesla. I had an early Model 3, a 21 model Y and now have a 24 model Y. I could snapshot my owner's page as proof, but you can just piss off.
What if there is no solution? Your choice is to not buy it and not use it. It will never see boulevards in deep snow so will go up curbs unless they gps map the whole world. Thats not gonna happen. Doesn’t matter what you accept. Traction control can correct for skidding. Maybe radar and/or LiDAR can see curbs under snow but I don’t see Tesla changing that approach.
They have issues unrelated to FSD.
I bought the full self driving package so I will be expecting to get an upgrade.
An unscheduled turn onto gravel at 55mph is hard to believe. Was this a 90 degree turn? You can see on the screen if it’s going to turn even if it’s incorrect. Something that grvious needed more explanation from the get go. You can tell me to piss off or whatever you like. Not gonna let statements like that go unchallenged.
No idea if there is a pause. Just had 3 hour trip and inched over 97%. Other than parking lots I rarely drive anymore. Parking lots are 5050 other than that it's rare to disengage anymore. I plan multi stop trips a lot more now also.
It would have been a 90 degree turn if I hadn't cancelled the autopilot. I did see it on the screen -- that and the sudden unexpected braking were my indications that the car was preparing to turn into someone's driveway.
I guess they made a call based on cost. No doubt radar and LiDAR can see things like curbs under snow.
Old news. It's been done [since 2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFtfJLi2aJA). (also, this guy was a total asshole, not condoning it, obviously.)
They will. The new model Y has a squirter on the front bumper camera and the front windshield camera is protected as long as your defogger is working. The newer cars have much better rear camera performance in rain. Side cameras might have heaters now or are protected enough. It will get better. But I agree. Trust in snow storms may not happen for years or ever. But lots of people should stay home in bad weather as well. Look at the accidents when it snows. FSD is smart enough to opt out under those conditions. Might be a clue to get home.
four way stops are funny b/c it does stop for a few seconds at a sign, when people expect you to not sit atound that long and it makes them hesitate even if you have the right of way and then people get mad. the law is at least 3 seconds but almost no one does that relavtively so the 4 ways are hilarious
You won’t be getting any upgrade on your existing car. Likely a discount on a new car.
But FSD was feature complete in 2016. I don't get it?
Yeah, I mean - frankly - it looks like they're waiting for a large portion of the HW3 cars to "age out" so they don't need to be replaced. These older HW3 cars will either be scrapped or on the 2/3/4th owner who only paid $8k for the car and have no intention of spending money on an FSD package that is effectively 90% of their purchase price. As time moves forward; it makes less and less sense for Tesla to invest on making a specific upgrade for HW3 cars when its such a small subset of their cars. (FSD enabled HW3 cars have to be incredibly low - tesla has leaked purchase rates for FSD and it was such a small subset of their sales). The only time I could expect FSD numbers to have increased was during their used car sales where every FSD capable car came with FSD enabled as an incentive. That was what, about a 1-2 year period? Stack that with anything they're doing for R&D for HW3 cars being pretty worthless for any of their future cars... its not a wise investment for Tesla. I hope those "stupidly large incentives" are just that; because I never intended on trading in my '19 M3. And I fully expect an upgrade. I just hope its HW7 or something awesome. I don't want some HW 4.5 only to find out 6 months later that it doesn't have the hardware for autonomy but also no further upgrade path because Tesla decided thats all the HW3 owners get. Anyway, just posting this dribble to say, yep. 100% agree with you, u/Marathon2021 Tesla has been good before with keeping cars updated, hardware and software, so hopefully its just a question of when they decide the hardware is "good enough" to send us all out a package. In the mean time, I do think its a bad look that they're not supporting HW3 further without a hardware replacement available. I'm not asking for feature parity with HW4 - but there's no reason why we can't get continuous tweaks to the (much smaller) model in HW3. Well, the reason is money and resources on Tesla's part, but that's besides the point.
This emergency/not really an emergency pulling over started yesterday for me! Twice! 14.2.2 never did it before this
Really?
HW3 on a 2018 M3. I give FSD a chance about once a year just to see the progress. The most recent attempt was I40 between Knoxville and Nashville. The thing would run up on someone in the right lane, slow down and wait way too long to get into the left. It would finally change lanes as soon as someone was zooming up in the left lane, then take ages to accelerate and pass the person in the right. Absolutely useless if it can't even drive in a straight line on an interstate. NOA with lane change is the sweet spot and I have no expectation that Tesla will beat it before the car ages out.
Sorry I don’t know how this turned into a giant, bolded post. LOL. Not my intention!
Nope. I have two Model Ys - a 2022 AI3 and a 2025 AI4 - and can say that FSD is clearly superior on AI4.
Same
It's not even cost. LiDAR doesn't see much that Vision doesn't already see. Both will see a random bag floating across the highway. Except LiDAR will only ever see "Thing" whereas Vision will correctly interpret said thing as a harmless bag, rather than a rock. LiDAR can't see stop lights. LiDAR can't read signs. LiDAR can't see emergency lights. The most interesting thing LiDAR can do is specifically _not_ see something. i.e. if Vision is unsure about a patch of road ("is that an object in the road of just patchwork") then in theory it could ping a LiDAR point cloud to check if it sees something or nothing. But Vision could be trained to recognize patches are patches, too. So it really adds nothing. Except noise. Sensor Fusion will add a ton of noise to the system.
2nd quarter 2026, meaning Christmas update 2026.
This has been my issue as well. It clearly does not like limit signs if they occur too soon after turning onto a new road, in one case it even visualized the sign yet did not change the limit. What irks me is that knows the speed limit for my subdivision as it immediately sets itself to 25 upon turn in well before any sign. The road adjacent to my subdivision is another matter. It knows the road name, bottom right of screen, and only knows the speed limit when we leave the subdivision. Enter that same road from any other adjacent road and it does not until a limit sign is passed that it acknowledges. I always interrupt FSD to report this but Tesla clearly needs a way for the driver to indicate that speed limit is wrong so not only that the car drives legally but Tesla gets a clue. Oh, its not just rural areas either. There is a stretch of 41 near me the car is convinced is 45mph and it never ever has been that. Other major issues with speed. End of Construction zones is usually acknowledged as ending any speed restriction but the car cannot read those signs so it merrily keeps the reduced speed until another sign showing otherwise pops up. I75 for me, it still will read some Minimum Speed signs as the speed limit - these signs are 40mph. The car will even update the display to show 40mph but at least it maintains the speed of traffic.
I transferred my FSD last year when they were offering 1k off new car with transfer. I would expect small incentives like that offered over time. Eventually they'll give the upgrade to the 100 remaining hw3 cars years from now.
I have both HW3 and 4 with FSD purchased on both. *Right now*, the hw3 drives better than the hw4. They botched the last update on hw4, the speed profiles are bad along with the lane change hesitation, which is annoying and confuses everybody else on the road. The previous software on HW4 was better than HW3.
Do you unironically think they will get FSD? Really?
With how much people pay for FSD the required hardware upgrades should be free for life, but of course Tesla is too greedy to honor that.
This is to pump the stock we all know it
Bro in wrong sub .. we are Tesla’s worst critics 😂😂
Today my model Y hit the brakes for no reason - a car pulled into a turning lane in the middle of the road in front and the car decided that warranted emergency braking. Luckily the car behind me wasn’t close.
This is a good description of the issue. It's really obvious where they have spent time focusing on getting their mapping right, and I'm convinced that a lot of these issues are mapping issues. When I drive down to Austin or Houston you can tell immediately as you get closer to these cities because the speed limits and lanes get more accurate. As I go north towards Oklahoma the car will just sort of stop reading signs at some point, and apparently their mapping provider hasn't updated their speed limits either, because they car will just think long stretches of 75mph two lane highway is 55. It's weird, because google AND open street map have the speed limits set correctly, so it's something about how Tesla is pulling that data.
Everyone except the SEC apparently.
Absolutely. Driving only stops being a chore if I have zero responsibility. FSD (supervised) I still have 100% responsibility to manage it and take over at any second.
if you start a line with a # on reddit, markup makes it a header. You can edit to a /# to ignore the markup (the slash will not show, but the # will and it will ignore the markup context of a #)
Thanks!
Used it daily. Hilly neighborhood in fog and rain mostly, through a forest, many twisty 2 lane roads, speed bumps, potholes, weird intersections, downtown, weird on ramps and offramps. It's not slowing down for ONE particular speed bump but not going that fast (I set it on Chill). It drove me door to door 300 miles, picked up friend at a hospital and drove us to a valet drop off at Hotel One. Then drove us home. I pay close attention, have used every version of autonomy since the OG AP. It's nearly there, and my stubborn family now agrees.
Off that’s an inconvenient mistake, given how many non-emergency blinking lights there are
#hmmm let me try that
When unsupervised FSD is safer than human drive the Insurance rates calculated by the industry will repond accordingly.
It makes your frustration sound as serious as it is
Sounds like issues directly with FSD. Why are you trying to play denial on Tesla’s behalf?
Most of my errands take me 5-10 minutes. I'd rather drive than type in the address. It is nice to use it on straight roads though (although my Rivian started doing that too)
Ashok's video is included in the article.
Rather than the cars talking to each other (which I think could be worked out - but best in a high integrity, high trust environment) it seems like Tesla could integrate practical use info and speed limit knowledge embedded in its map, to back up its visual data in the car in real time. That’s what human drivers do. Or it could upload anomalous data for staff or software to review. I don’t know what processes Tesla uses to collect info and improve SD performance.
Well and it is doing it if another car, ahead or behind, pulls off the road onto the shoulder. This becomes a real issue when the shoulders are ice covered
Good job replying without addressing anything I said.
I will be long gone before.There is any supervised unsupervised driving in the city of chicago I will tell you that right now with the complete one hundred percent degree of accuracy
It's just gonna take a lot more time than they thought.They have completely underestimated how bad the infrastructure is.And that's what's going to prevent it.And if they ever drove around chicago, you would see that it's almost impossible to survive without computers.There's no way a computer can adjust to chaos
I mean, the people are crashing into each other.Walking down the street talking because they're looking at their phone instead of where they're going.So they're crashing into each other with their bodies.It's not even causing car accidents.It's causing people bumping accidents.That's how crazy this is...
Can they join me for a ride in a HW3 in a snow storm or heavy rain!
Same with HW4, I had to intervene quite often because it’s raining (not even heavy), snowing, heck even when the sun was to shiny. I love fsd but I can’t say I’m 100% comfortable with it having only camera
HW3. I’d love to hear what HW4 owners say.
Is OP the owner of the site? Might be putting clickbait in the article and then using the title on the Reddit post on purpose
It’s much, much better. I came from HW3 and upgraded to a model 3 with HW4. Even FSD 13 tracked lines better, had faster response time, etc. The better cameras help a lot with seeing details, staying in lines, and judging other car speeds. And the better processing power really helps it handle tough situations better and the response time is far quicker. There’s no delays, like rubber banding in stop and go; it can perfectly track the car in front of you. Just the way it handles situations is much better because they have more memory and compute for larger models, etc. It’s a huge step up. You can’t judge current FSD from HW3
That’s good to know. It’s important that when people comment they indicate which they have: 3 or 4.
Sorry. You are wrong. They’ve even hired a team of engineers to help distill the models for HW3. It’s coming during the first half of 2026. Start a Kalshi and I will bet on it. Ha
> I'd rather drive than type in the address. If typing the name of an establishment is too much, then perhaps just use the mic button like I do. At this point it's like an accountant refusing to give up his abacus because he doesn't want to use a calculator. Preference but no real benefit.
Or an accountant preferring to do mental math of 69 + 42 instead of just asking Alexa or Google.
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