Cybercab spotted

Steering wheel?

Yes

Would do love this….

Yep. And it's. . . not an unattractive design. It looks like Tesla's spin on a DeLorean. It just doesn't seem like something designed to be a taxi. I don't think the world is quite ready to ditch car ownership and let robot pods-for-hire drive us everywhere.

I think this would sell well as a $20k “normal” vehicle (e.g. steering wheel, no “robotaxi” crap)

A 2-door taxi is a questionable design choice.

Sick

Tesla's VP of engineering said the engineering builds will have steering wheels for testing: https://www.youtube.com/live/ULaxgSFv0w4?si=_hcKN8Ho8D4lcDkb&t=1860 > If you see the release candidate fleet running around with steering wheels, that's because we had to figure out how to test it. They're not for sale or whatever. That's just a test feature only. And actually, I think it's a wheel straight out of the Cybertruck. So it's not even a bespoke thing.

If you can get a car in 30 seconds wherever you are and have it drive you directly to your destination for 50 cents per mile while you're texting on your phone, the world will forget about car ownership. Owning a car makes no sense for the vast majority of people at that point. At least in cities. And who said a taxi can't look cool? I love that Tesla doesn't make things look bad just because they typically look bad.

Looks nothing like a delorean. Looks more like the vw xl1.

Horrible choice for so many reasons

A coupe Tesla would be kinda sick

Actually… looks cool

Who will be maintaining them though? A bus is one thing, it gets cleaned and maintained and has others watching you so there is some semblance of responsibility from a public point of view, but I can see these being filthy after some time.

Why?

Yeah honestly it makes the cybertruck materials look good

They can drive themselves to depots for cleaning. Either by robots or hired humans. They also have internal cameras, so they can be monitored for damage.

Where's the driver gonna sit? Oh wait.

I wouldn't mind buying a second Tesla if they did that.

No it wouldn't. Two-seater cars don't sell. Makes sense for a robotaxi, but not a regular car.

How so? The vast majority of Uber rides have 1 or 2 passengers. And for the rest, they already have cars that can handle those rides.

Explain.

I think Tesla really would have no reason to sell this version of the car. Who wants their car to look like a taxi? It makes the autonomous robotaxi not special. They purpusefully made it look this way to be different and special.

What the hell are you supposed to do with a 2 seater cab with a safety monitor? 🤣

Not at all. These are meant to be cheap and over-used vehicles (basically in usage 24/7). Having 2 passenger seats covers like 95% of taxi rides. Groups of more than 2 can call a regular uber etc... but it makes sense to build a car that can completely dominate 95% of the ride sharing market.

Yes but the car is small. It is already a strange feeling being in a car with no driver and on top of that you will be dwarfed by human driven SUVs.

Wowie, getting more and more real

Doesn’t even make sense for a taxi

I don't really see the issue there. Nobody is gonna care when you're taking rides for 50 cents per mile.

You wouldn't call a regular Uber. You'd still use Robotaxi and it would get you a Model 3/Y/S/X if you select more than 2 passengers.

You never sit up front in a taxi, this is literally the same amount of space.

How so? The vast majority of taxi rides have 1 or 2 passengers. This will serve all those rides. The rest can be served by Model 3/Y/S/X. All through the Robotaxi app.

Nope, they don't sell. I drive a Miata as a daily driver and they're so rare that when I see another one we wave at each other. I love it and it suits me and 99 percent of people want the option to have a back seat.

Yup, exactly. Too niche. When people buy a car, they want it to serve all their needs. When people order a ride, they want it to serve their needs only for that ride. Big difference.

Yes it would… point out another NEW sub 25k (let alone 20k) EV

This is supposed to be sub-$30k, not sub-$25k or sub-$20k. It would sell some, but not in any sort of scale that moves the needle for Tesla. People really don't buy two-seater cars, even when they're cheaper. People want their car to be able to fit more than two people for when they need that capability. That doesn't matter for a robotaxi that only needs to have capabilities for a specific ride, but it does matter for a regular car that people buy.

The car is in testing phase, with a safety driver behind the wheel. Many (most?) passengers are not going to feel comfortable sitting up front. And even if there is no driver, a two seater car provides very little space. And if there’s an extra row behind the seat, climbing in and out stinks and is a safety hazard.

Passengers will be fine. The ones that are scared will get over it quite quickly. Money talks. And statistics. Why do you think there's very little space? Do you think there's very little space in the front row of a regular car? No, there's plenty of space. This is basically just a regular car that only has a front row. There's no extra row behind the seats.

The safest positions in a car are right rear and left rear. Nobody is IMHO disputing this won't be a success for the right price. The commenter abobe just pointed out the design choices might not be ideal. Not sure why I am being downvoted here either.

I think you’re wrong. Two seaters would be great commuters.

I'm not sure what the safest positions actually are, but clearly the masses have no problem sitting up front in cars, considering they do it all the time. The design choices are ideal for affordable robotaxi rides. And I didn't downvote you.

If people wanted them, they would be buying them. But they aren't. The obvious reason is because when people buy a car, they want to be able to use it when they have more than 1 other passenger with them.

I just do not get their fascination for this body style to be the robotaxi other than it looks slick. It certainly is not the best option for all passenger types and pretty much excludes anyone who has mobility issues. Literally should be able to walk into it and sit down. Aero really doesn't matter in a taxi environment and they could still narrow it vertically to achieve a good effect.

Larger vehicles cost more, and aero absolutely matters. Niche rides can be served by other vehicles. This works great for the vast majority of rides. This is not *the* robotaxi. It's *a* robotaxi. Another robotaxi is Model Y, for example. Basically: If you can build a car that cuts the cost in half for 90% of rides, why wouldn't you do that?

I pretty sure there’s a niche for the drivers that drive like a VW Golf or other two door hatchbacks. Usually meant for singles or those who rent apartments (or students).

It's a small niche. They're looking for scale here. I don't think VW even sells a two-door Golf. At least not in the US. And that's two doors, not even two seats. That's how poorly this type of vehicle sells.

I was thinking a cross between the new model y and a lotus

Is that why automakers stopped making them?

Obviously people sit up front in cars however they also have either control over the car or trust the driver. I think it is legitimate to question an unproven design of a fully autonomous taxi and think about the consequences. In your example of texting on the phone (other thread) while being driven by robotaxi - that is actually extermely dangerous when the airbag deploys. And in this kind of design the vehicle will definitely need to have front airbags...

Makes even less sense for a robotaxi in my opinion

The cybercab isn’t even on sale yet so it can’t be claimed that no one is buying it. The more than 2 seater car sounds more like your own preference to me, which I respect nonetheless but doesn’t speak for the general public since we don’t have that data yet.

You have a good point. 2 seaters gas vehicles went out of style (and practicality) potentially due to the economics of upkeep and gas prices. I still believe in the US there is a want for a “commuter electric car”. Reason would be because most people own multiple cars in one household in the US, so it would make sense to have 1 family car and another commuter if you could just plug it in at home and save on filling it up. But that’s just IMO

Not in Europe, average ride seats 1,6 person here. Would be an epic 2nd car, lots of small compact cars here.

I'm saying no one is buying two-seater cars in general.

The software will be safer than human drivers. So if anything, you should be less trusting when you sit up front with a human driver. You can question it, but if you're smart, you should realize pretty quickly that it's the right design. People text on their phones while in passenger seats of cars all the time. You're saying these things as if they're issues that are specific to Cybercab, but they're absolutely not.

People don't buy cars for the average ride. People buy cars for the 90th percentile ride at least. And most people don't buy two cars for themselves.

Because it's marginally more expensive to build a four-seater that can accommodate more people?

They are not specific to cybercab, but are they accentuated by the design or mitigated? That is what make a design good or bad

Generalise away if you like. Where I live this would be a monster succes. Everyone in our street has a bigger family car and a small car for running errands, going out with a kid to sports, going to the gym, commuting, etc etc.

More than marginal. It'll probably be at least 30% cheaper, all costs included. And why would you send a four-seater to a ride with two passengers? You act like just because Cybercab exists, their other vehicles disappear. They already have four-seaters that can serve those rides.

Can you name a modern two-seater car that's a monster success?

Right. If you just mean the styling, it looks to me a lot like the EV-1 or the old Honda Insight or even the Lightyear One. But what I meant about the DeLorean is. . . It's a kinda small two-door car with unpainted stainless steel body that was meant as an affordable but not dull car for the masses. That's the parallel that I was thinking of.

How are they accentuated? If anything the design is equal in safety from a hardware perspective (but potentially vastly safer due to software), and while being much cheaper. That's a great design.

VW Up, Renault Twingo

Neither of those cars are even in the top 50 best-selling cars in Europe: https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2024-full-year-europe-top-50-best-selling-car-models/

Gotcha, but the original delorean was about 90k in today's money. Also the cybercab will be skinned in color molded plastic.

Everyone hates on the 2 seats, as if a normal taxi doesn’t only have 3 usable seats (I guess 4 if you count the terrible middle seat lol). It’s designed for maximum luggage space while being small for city navigation and to be easy to clean.

Nobody will buy a 2 seater car….if it’s not a sports car

They do have a look to the don’t they

VW Up and Twingo are both four seaters, just small four seaters.

Hey now some of us are still waiting on the new roadster…. /s

I think ZeroWashu is asking why Tesla hasn't opted for a more radical design like Zoox's, which has two benches facing each other, for example. And the answer is that there's a mixture of both. On one hand, the traditional car shape does have some advantages like being more recognizable to other users of the road (important!), having better aero than a box (which matters because the Cybercab is expected to not just serve urban areas, but sub-, ex-urban, and rural areas, too), and having greater compatibility with existing tooling, components, and supply chain (really important to manufacture at scale and at a good cost!) But there's some truth that Tesla could have done a more radical design if they wanted to. Like making the frunk and trunk more cargo-usable rather than the traditional hood+hatchback paradigm.

I was at a supercharger a while back and a Tesla field tech was there working on it. We started chatting and he said no one would ever make two door EVs, and went on to say "two doors are dead". The market for two door vehicles is certainly a smaller percentage than it was 20 years ago, but there's definitely still people who want them.

Why is this so difficult to understand? Having only two seats could mean more vehicles are needed and more miles driven. If three people need a taxi and the two seater is nearest, it has to keep driving, a bigger taxi needs to take its place, and the passengers need to wait for it to arrive. It’s not just the cost of a single vehicle that’s important. It’s the fleet cost. — If a single person takes a four seater, that would be one less car do a three person group. They would also have to wait longer.

I dunno, it's kind of a half design, already not aging well IMO.

I think it’s made out of plastic

So holds one passenger with safety monitor in the driver's seat?

How is this unlike a regular taxi, which typically only has one row for passengers? Also there are other larger vehicles in the Robotaxi lineup. I’m sure Tesla has crunched the numbers and realized that the majority of rides will be fine with the Robotaxi form factor.

Plus it won’t have a steering wheel or anything else so you actually end up with quite a lot of space, arguably more than a typical rear row.

Right you are! I wonder how it will look after a few years. The coloration is all the way through the mold apparently. It's going to be interesting to see if they still look like a cybertruck after a few years or more like a kid's truck.

I'd buy it at 30k with a steering wheel and a 70kWh battery. I love my Model 3 but it is waaaaay too big for my needs.

I have a Fiat 500e and a Honda CRX. Two doors. 4 seater and 2 seaters. Depends on the audience.

Ummm, there is only tesla's in this pic, is this just taken on a Tesla factory parking lot or something?

What is the difference between a potential 2 door M3 Performance and a sports car?

Definitely would be interested if this hit the public as a normal vehicle we could drive!

And in America you’d be mentally insane to try and sell one here. *Sedans* are dying, hell some automakers don’t produce anything besides trucks and SUVs. You’re getting fired on the spot if you suggest a coupe during a board meeting.

Heck, people who said 20K will sell... I think even at 25-29K it will sell very well. A Model 3 is still what 35K?

It would sell extremely well. I would absolutely be in line for that. Hatchback for loading my bike. Doneski.

I personally don't think they are dead - Honda wouldn't be releasing the new Prelude (etc) if they were. Typically, the problem with 2 doors is that they are nerfed for some reason or another. If you built a two-door saloon, with an actual usable rear seat, and here's the kicker - it \*must\* have a hatchback rear that provides more cargo volume and usability - I believe they'd have more of a fighting chance. I still have an older Scion tC in the family and it is so extremely fun and useable still even after all these years. Every single time I'm in that car I think "Damn! If someone just made this exact car as an electric with a frunk it would be fantastic!"

I dont know where you live, but here a typical taxi is a minivan

Typically I’ve only seen minivans around here for airport shuttles where they’re taking multiple guests. Most of the time around here, Ubers and taxis have 1 or 2 people in them. Maybe 3-5. Vans would be a very niche option. To me, it seems like the Cybercab could handle the 1-2 people rides while the Model Y could handle the 3-5 rides. This should handle the bulk of people who use taxis.

It's amazing seeing the scale in real life! Looks like a car from the future.

1997 called. They want their FIAT coupe back (https://share.google/t8EPMxsgz1Ag3jFzI)

opinions are like bung holes, everyone has one...i would like a model 3 - 2 door, i never once had anyone in back seat, in over 2 years.

exactly, it is designed for a specific purpose and caters to that purpose. Additionally it blows away any other mfg from a cost perspective, once scaled rob taxi will take over and the rideshare cost will come down tremendously. You'll be able to go from SF to LA, then SF to Seattle for example. Lidar cars wont be doing long distance trips for looong time due to mapping and geo-fencing.

I dont want to fit more people in my car. I want myself and a single passenger.

This is Tesla engineering, not Ford/GM junk. If there is any issue they will pivot quickly.

I mean mini cooper se is 2 door ev. We love ours.

Can't buy what isn't for sale. How many electric 2 door lift back or hatchbacks are available? No one can buy them if 0 are for sale to buy.

Make this a targa top and id buy it in a heartbeat to daily

My dad had a Camry solara and I always thought it was kinda dumb. UNTIL he gave it to me. I absolutely LOVED that car. I think it was an '01

The market for coupes is fairly small

I’m a day one buyer. But only if it stays true to the original concept of being fully autonomous with no driving controls. And that’s a big regulatory hurdle in most of our locations.

Market trends exist in other segments indicating that two seaters do not sell well, it doesn’t need to specifically be about an EV specifically for the statement “two seater vehicles do not sell well” to be satisfied. Why is it that you think a two seater specifically being EV will change the success that the vehicle sees?

Because EVs have far better efficiency and performance? If I can choose between a 4 door sedan EV with 130 mile per gallon equivalent or a 30mpg gas car that's slow with 2 doors and has a lift ack, I'm picking the EV.....and I did...but you give me a small 2 door with a lift ack or hatchback that has equal or better efficiency, performance, and price compared to my 4 door, I'm picking the 2 door. Being EV will change the success it sees because some people care about efficiency...tripling or quadrupling a vehicles effective gas mileage isn't just a minor teeny thing to ignore.

Okay, and they're still a minority vehicle type compared to gasoline and hybrids worldwide. The reality is that it doesn't really matter what you're picking, you're one person and you don't establish a market trend with what you specifically decide to do (and this is the whole basis of the concept of niches in the first place). Coupes/2-door vehicles in general are regularly outsold by sedans worldwide, to the point that the ***price*** element is actually a drawback for hypothetical EV coupes as well (see also economies of scale). So ***maybe*** efficiency and performance at the same or a higher price for being a niche product, and then by virtue of costing more it becomes an even more niche product? It's plain to see why it hasn't made it to market in the consumer segment yet, a ride can be "sold" with less seats but an entire car is much more difficult to "sell" with less seats. All of this is before considering what the actual difference would be, given how streamlined vehicles like the Lucid Air and Model 3 are already it's anyone's guess as to whether shaving off two seats would dramatically improve efficiency. The 1000lb lightning rock resting under the passengers in addition to the accompanying protective chassis around it accounting for the majority of an EV's weight lead me to believe not really. If the people designing, marketing, and selling these vehicles haven't decided to capitalize on a hypothetical lower end two door EV market then you sincerely don't believe there's a reason for that?

Why “crap”?

I mean, I drive a model 3...my only complaint is a trunk instead of a lift back...so give me a drivable cybercab type vehicle (don't care about full self driving) and I'd have bought it. But yes, saving off 2 seats wouldn't really help efficiency...but I'm thinking 2 door 2 seater and have a liftback instead of a trunk (I'm fine with the cargo capacity, just want a bigger opening like my previous liftback cars), and I'd buy it. But it's about price as well. If it costs less than the 4 door 4 seat version, I think people would buy it. Some people just need a commuter, don't have kids, already have a separate larger vehicle, etc.

Can some explain the reason for the wheel sizes. Seems rather large for its economic purposes. Wouldn't 15 inch be a better option both in terms of long term and upfront cost

Is the production already ramping up? Or are they just testing the FSD.

Probably never seen the Maserati GranTurismo en GranCabrio EV then. And what about the Rolls-Royce Spectre.

It's JohnnyCab!!!