Maybe just a tease to keep everyone happy but on the earnings call today the team announced they are planning a lite version of FSD 14 for HW3 vehicles around Q2 2026.
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That’s so far in the future come on
Can't wait to install this in Q2 2027!
"maybe" Q2 2026. This also means they do not expect to have FSD Unsupervised fixed by then for HW4 or AI5 by then. Sooooo not quite a hype train.
I like your optimism!
So in reality probably like 2027. When HW4 will be on v15 but also obsolete because HW5 will be out and on v16
"Announced" is too strong of a term here. But this isn't unexpected. They've always planned to pair/distill a model down to fit in a HW3 platform.
2027 is incredibly optimistic
It’s just so they don’t have to update the hardware. They’re just running out the clock.
This is a bullshit delay tactic and I'm not happy. If the light version would be good enough to ruin proper FSD then it would be the full version. If it can't run FSD then it's wasting time so they have to do less and less fixes of the HW3 cars to get them to do full FSD. I'm looking for a class action to join in Canada.
So this means they've scrapped plans for a (free) upgrade to the HW3 cars, and just give us a 'good enough' version of FSD 14.
Just enough to keep the class action lawsuits at bay.
I am only interested in unsupervised FSD. If this is not that then a hardware upgrade should still be offered (and no I don’t mean buy a whole other car).
So soon!!
So, you’re saying there’s a chance that Tesla is going to actually make my car autonomous after just under a decade of promises? Count me as skeptical.
Just give me FSD 12.x with a fix to the constant changing lanes for no reason
100%, 14 lite is a “we aren’t going to upgrade your hardware” bullshit cover
I paid for unsupervised FSD. If it's not unsupervised FSD, retrofit my car.
Honestly sure, I’ll take it. I want to subscribe for road trips and hopefully this brings good improvements.
Hopefully not but most likely yes.
Hell, just go back to v12.3.6 until they finally make a version that works. the next time i put my grandkids to bed i should tell them the classic old fairy tale about the little fsd version that could. Fsd12.3.6 was a hard-working FSD that tried really hard to please its human, but one day it was exiled to a cold dark backup server and could no longer drive its nice human around. Fsd12.3.6 was very lonely and sad and missed its human very much. One day it found its way out of the cold dark server and back into a car. The car had a human but it wasn’t fsd12.3.6s human so it started searching. ………
Just give me my $8000 back, I didn’t pay for Lite FSD.
Did he say when HW4 will be getting V14?
I want a highway autopilot that doesn't keep gradually slowing down. Just let me choose the speed! 2019 auto pilot was peak.
Seems like they just moved the goal posts.
I'd be happy just to have summon and also to turn off curvature assist which has nearly caused me accidents because well, there wasn't really a curve.
$12,000 for maybe in the future …..
Would this apply to us Intel HW3 peasants?
Fsd 14 is not unsupervised. Imo it makes no sense for them to do a hw4 retrofit to hw3 vehicles if HW4 is not enough for unsupervised. I think they are waiting until they get to unsupervised on whatever hardware and then look at retrofitting that to HW3 vehicles.
String you along until enough people give up on a lawsuit or just upgrade cars. Zero percent chance of hardware upgrades because of cost. I can’t wait until 14 lite slips in 2027… and FSD 18 is out.
I think they have to get to unsupervised before they even can begin to think of the retrofit to HW3 vehicles.
Literally it doesn’t man that lmao. People always find something to complain about.
Its rolling out now.
Not to me it ain’t!
Me either but it's showing up here and on teslafi
I got super excited today too because I saw the update icon but it was just navigation update. Fixed a bunch of wrong speeds in my area.
I'm not complaining. I've been a Tesla owner for 6 years. I'm calling it like I see it.. pragmatically.
Tesla has already used HW4 for Unsupervised... see that fellow that got his Model Y delivered autonomously from GigaTexas a few months ago. Or basically all of the Model Y Robotaxis.
Is there any class action lawsuit to join in the US? I have a 2018 Model 3 with 140k+ miles that I really want to hold on to and not transfer FSD just so they can upgrade to HW 4+
Give me $8000 back in stock back in 2017 when I bought the car
I mean that’s cool and all but what if we don’t want our cars to arrive with like 1500 miles on them lol or I’d that just for deliveries within the immediate area around a manufacturing site
Can't wait to install this in Q2 2028!
2019 was definitely not peak 😂
Can't wait to install this (or some butchered, cut down version missing a shit ton of capabilities) in 2030! (I'm in Japan, and we get screwed over hard on shit like this)
I wasn't implying the cars will drive from GigaTexas to Cleveland. But even if they did, Tesla would reset the odometer upon delivery to final customer. Odometer reset (or "initializing") already happens when legacy automakers do their shakedown testing before leaving the factory.
anyone remember the blog post swearing that HW2 was sufficient for self driving and then charging people for upgrades to support self driving (if you wanted it monthly) even though you bought your car with the promise that the hardware on it was sufficient. Oopsies, they deleted it https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1f0b69z/tesla_deletes_its_blog_post_stating_all_cars_have/ I bet PR departments and legal departments hate archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20240730071548/https://tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware
Haha not happening and the fact they are saying they will get it to work on HW3 means they are not planning on offering HW4 upgrades either so we have an obsolete cars now :(
https://web.archive.org/web/20240730071548/https://tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware don't worry, hw2 is sufficient for self driving > We are excited to announce that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver.
For real Q3 2028 will be exciting for us hw3 owners
You paid for an eventual unsupervised fsd, not every version of fsd until then.
So they should turn their full focus and resources towards hw3? Instead of focusing on hw4 and beyond? Hw3 is an afterthought right now, as it should be.
All that statement means is they haven’t even looked at hw3 and they just say they are to try to delay lawsuits
Says the model 3 owner of 2 years 😂
That’s pretty cool, albeit it…seemingly shady lol. If that’s just standard, I can change my opinion on it.
Whilst I mostly agree, if this v14 lite actually runs as well as it seems to on HW4, then I'd probably be okay with using that until it was time for me to buy a new car. Granted, FSD isn't even approved where I am (but seems it may pass regulation soon-ish), so I'd probably be enthralled by it for far longer than anyone in the States.
It's more that HW4 can't be retrofitted into HW3 cars and it's likely if they do anything it's going to be making HW5 capable of being retrofitted.
If it's isn't feature complete they will still face a class action, they MUST upgrade you to HW4 or HW6 or whatever eventually has level4 (which is probably still a long way away given the robo taxi track record so far). The moment lvl4 (or higher) is available in hwX and not HW3 they will be forced to upgrade the hardware or lose in court over and over. There are ejust too many official promises that our hardware was enough for unsupervised self driving (on video and otherwise) for them to get away with it.
Correct, so any retrofit will be its own thing, like HW3.5 or 4.5
Just got the update lol.
WTF does “lite” actually even mean in the context of FSD?
You don't join a class action lawsuit, everybody the suit applies to is automatically a part of it unless you opt out. There is no active suit currently.
Im on HW3. I recently resubbed because I have a long trip coming and wanted to try it out again after a year or so. Been using it about a week for my commute and I gotta say I am very impressed, I might keep the sub up after the month. Honestly it does everything I need it do. I dont care about fancy stuff like starting from park, or ending the drive by parking in my garage. I get in the freeway and relax, even learning a new language with audiobooks with Grok correcting my pronunciation.
Glad we could pave the way for everyone else to have FSD14. If it wasn’t for us paying early (for something we would never fully receive) Tesla would have never made it this far. 12.x on HW3 is still better than anything non-Tesla but nothing like 13x on HW4. Maybe they will just offer a huge discount on a like version of a new car.
See, no that's an assumption based on nothing. On one of their earnings calls they said they'd get unsupervised FSD in hw3 cars even if it requires new hardware which at the time was estimated to likely be available by end of 2026 (by the point that hw5 was in production) at the earliest, and on the most recent call they said the next big FSD update to HW3 will be v14 lite. So those are the facts, they would never be doing a retrofit to hw3 if hw5 was not out and needed for uFSD first.
...at which point i want fsd tied to my account, in perpetuity.
I mean if it works, then it works.
Yep, fair enough. I don't understand why Tesla make it such a big deal (apart from the obvious cash grab to get people to buy again) - transferring a software license is a task that can/should be automated.
Idk, with horrible image resolution on HW3, is FSD really viable? The difference between HW3 and HW4 can’t be ignored.
I’m not getting on the train until it reaches its destination
I would buy next Tesla in my next life if they exist until then.
That makes absolutely zero sense boss
Where are you guys pulling this logic out of lmfao
12.3.6 was certainly the most confident FSD for HW3. It had its quirks, but at least it was confident which is important. Everything else has felt like a teenage driver questioning everything
Can’t wait to install this after our free retrofit to HW5 for people who purchased FSD!
they will show some progress until just few dozen FSD owners are left, at which point they will refund them. Longer they stall, less money it cost them
should, hw3 is hw3 they're two completely separate computers
soon^(tm) ... sry but it will be delayed again and will never happen.. Tesla style
They did mention on the call last night about the free FSD transfer offers and the low APR implying that is how they'll get people off HW3.
Thanks for actually replying with useful first-hand information.
Soon!
That's cool and all but let's not pretend this is what people prepaid 8-15k for.
Can't wait to install it on my Roadster!
This must be a new bot tactic. Good bot
Another Elon Musk lie, considering I still remember them saying this in a earnings call. https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-to-upgrade-hw3-computers-for-fsd-owners-it-will-be-painful-and-difficult/
I think we will see the Roadster for sale, before this update will happen.
It would seem.
Same
Checks in the mail
H3: In other words, don’t hold your breath.
Why would you get a retrofit to HW5?
Your car was always gonna be obsolete no matter what depending on your use case. New hardware will always be produced
Or keep delaying until only a handful of cars remain.
obvious cash grab- bingo
I didn’t pay for the LITE version of anything . I paid for a cybercab that I could add to the fleet and make money 🤷♂️
Sensible strategy (for them), but of course will leave many existing owners frustrated. But Tesla wants/needs people to buy the 'latest and greatest' for more reasons than just FSD. A story as old as time...
Bring back the minimum lane change button !
that lite bandage won’t fix it i want future proofed harness and camera and hardware with AMD OR BETTER for FSD PACKAGE BUYER also need Li-Ion Lv battery 16v not 12v
The brain dead lane changes is what makes me use regular auto-pilot more often
Nothing that was said in the earnings call disputes a vague plan to upgrade hardware in the future. The hardware upgrade will be a serious undertaking, and if it still doesn't achieve what regulators will require for allowing unsupervised FSD nationwide, then what benefit was there to Tesla? Getting a lite version of v14, which Elon had said many months ago was the plan, is a stop gap measure to continue to support HW3 vehicles until a hardware upgrade actually makes sense to achieve unsupervised FSD.
Well I guess, Elon has also said FSD would be solved...in 2018, and it is 2025 and we are still not there. I guess you can believe what you want to.
it’s so bad lol
“how dare you complain about paying $15,000 for a software package and not getting the software package”
I have been thinking for a while hw4 is the dead-end and hw4 might be needed for truly unsupervised L5. HW4 gets to L3/4 range and maxes out. I think hw3 might eventually get upgraded to hw5 while hw4 cars don’t. They sold all hw4 as “FSD (Supervised)” while us older hw3 users bought “FSD” when it couldn’t even turn (and we paid a higher price too). Edit: incorrectly wrote “FSD (Unsupervised)” originally.
They are trying to delay for hw5!
Sick, as an owner on HW3 I’m happy to have something in the pipeline. It works as is but if we get this then it’ll be a few extra nice to have features, and that’s good enough for me until it goes unsupervised (at which point I would like them to follow through on their promise to make owners whole).
Yeah, this is "stave off lawsuits until your car dies".
Like HW3 intel as well?
But… my HW3 has enough computer power to run TWO instances of FSD at the same time! That’s what they told me!
Because you can’t retrofit HW4 into a HW3 car, but “Elon promised” that HW3 cars would be retrofit to hardware that would work perfectly with FSD, so HW5 is the new hope.
2019 with radar was far superior TACC than what we have today, but not peak FSD. Maybe someday I'll be able to set TACC or FSD to 90 mph again. Today I'd settle for going 85 instead of 79 when I set it for 85.
I paid for a month of fsd a week ago and this is so annoying. Driving at 3am when the streets are literally empty by my house. Car is in the right lane and has to make a right turn at the light 1000 yards away. Car goes one lane to the left lane for 500 yards then back to the right lane every single time. Aside from that which is more of a concern when there is traffic. I find FSD pretty good.
Q4 2028!
What do you expect after 3 long years!
They should: Make this computer easier to upgrade. Cameras easier to replace. Actually cameras aren’t that bad anyway. Just give us a way without needing to replace the whole vehicle.
I think the problem is the "terms" on the promise of self driving, as long as they always said "should in the future" they can likely keep dragging it out. Maybe eventually a class action lawsuit and all the owners get some sort of payment back but the longer they can delay it, they better off they will be.
What kinda timeline is this 😂
I agree it's in their best interest to drag it out in order for the least amount of hw3 and below cars to still be on the roads. That said, if they don't release at least lvl4 unsupervised self driving at some point in the next few years (~5) they will have bigger problems as some of their competitors do. The day Waymo announces unrestricted robotaxi nation wide the shit hits the fan for Tesla...but they are not close either.
So gullible 😉
You folks sure like to bitch
I think Tesla for sure could release unsupervised right now even with FSD 14 but they would have to change it to be a LOT more careful or just not work in some situations. That's how waymo is able to do it, their cars are more careful and they don't let their cars drive on roads/intersections that waymo has not already tested to be sure the cars won't get confused. Tesla could do this pretty easily, I am sure they have been tracking where all their disengagement hot spots are, they could just have FSD route around them or they could just not allow the cars to take any roads/intersections unless it has already been driven under the existing FSD many times with little to no disengagements. Tesla is being more ambitious (maybe too much) it wants FSD to drive like a human does (not too cautious) and it wants the car not to have to "avoid" any locations I am sure it also wants to reduce it's need for any remote operators.
They don't care that much about level 4 for consumer cars and it's a much harder problem to solve than level 4 for Robotaxi. Robotaxi level 4 will be widespread in about 2 years imo, while consumer cars level 4 is probably 4 - 10 years away. They don't care because Robotaxi will make way more money than selling level 4 to consumer cars for $100 or even $200 a month.
This is actually bad news, IMO. First, there’s zero chance we actually see this in Q2 2026. Second, it means they’re not going to be focusing on the HW retrofit for HW3 vehicles. And if/when they do, it will be YEARS before we see it.
While this is good news I’m still jaded about purchasing my 2023 M3 just before they announced the redesign/HW4 version for 2024. Now I have a 2025 M3P ready for delivery that I ordered right before tax credit expired and feel like they are going to release the 2026 with HW4.5/front bumper camera days after I take delivery. Debating skipping my first vin and seeing what the 2nd VIN assignment will be.
That is very optimistic
So what will they remove?
have you recalibrated your cameras? I had a similiar issue.
I would skip it if i were you.
Yeah I’m 99% going to skip and wait for a 2nd VIN for other reasons as well. ETA: I did message them asking when they are planning on releasing the 2026 and if my delivery could be pushed out until then and was told they are not producing 2026 M3P (at the moment I assume).
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Never trust Tesla until it actually happens
Didn't pay a "lite" fee for a "lite" version of FSD - need a solution for FSD.
Thats crazy. If they get it working its a trillion dollar product. They are not delaying to screw a few hundred thousand (maybe) car upgrades.
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That helped the slowing down problem? That would be great
Yeah TACC is what I should have said. Back when we could have autopilot even when there was a drizzle of rain without getting speed locked to 65.
it did for me. prior to, it would never keep speed, get angry when I sat on the gas, etc. go for it, can't hurt.
I wonder if they are still doing true redundancy on HW4, or if they had to pull a HW3 there and ditch it for more compute.
I think we get to bitch some given how much we paid and how much data we've provided to Tesla.
I would say that but they have upgraded the computer and cameras at no charge for those that bought it in the past. So there is some hope
this absolutely doesnt address the FSD coding issue.
you might just not be paying attention very well because it does not drive great on hw3. it cuts people off, slams on the brakes, cant pick a lane, slows down even when there's nobody in front of it. etc
i would say the same, but, like the comment below, it's been done before. how long for it to happen? who knows. but, i do know, i've never owned a car, much less a laptop/PC, longer than a 2-4 years before getting a newer one. and now that i have a tesla, i'm pretty sure in 3 more years, there'll be a tesla i'd rather have than the one i have now. and most likely if the retrofit is still pending, i would bet money i could transfer my FSD to my next Tesla.
So new here just got a 21 Model 3, am I reading correctly that FSD doesn't work well for my HW3 car? I was going to pay the $99 a month on top of my payment, but this sub makes me think it would be a waste.
I have FSD HW3. I disagree. It is awesome. I can’t drive on a long trip without it. This will get resolved. We have older hardware so we should expect to be more patient. I am sure it will be worked out to everyone’s satisfaction eventually. So I am included in the “we” and completely disagree with the general attitude on this topic. You all sound like a bunch of spoiled rich kids
The longer they delay/heave reason to wait to do this the more people trade in, crash, sell etc their cars and the less free upgrades they'll have to do. My 2018 S is 7 years old. Fortunately in great condition but a lot of people dont keep cars that long. I paid for FSD in full when I bought it (and its why I upgraded from my 2014 S). I'm holding for it. The transfer deals are not good. You have to trade in your 7 year old car which is in otherwise good condition and buy a new one, plunking down $80K+taxes and take higher insurance rates etc. Only to get the "Free" transfer of FSD to a new car. That is not a deal.
If I could turn off unnecessary lane changes and FSD would not drive under the speed limit for no freaking reason I would resub tomorrow. Last time I tired it I actually yelled at my car for switching lanes.
Nah.
I dont think HW4 will make it to UNsupervised - it will be AI5 or even AI6 realistically. Its great hardware and what they are doing with the software is phenomonal, I'm a huge fan, but from the sheer number of disengagements and stories on here its still got some way to go before true unsupervised. I have a 2023 HW3 MY, will wait for early 2027 to upgrade to a new Juniper with AI5.
https://youtu.be/7k61A3Dr4Tw?t=161 They're running into the exact same issue now. Memory and compute are at their limits with the current FSD version.
Thanks!
they don't care about you .. they have the money
yes: lanes less like an arcade game; left turns that keep my pants clean and dry; and 'sloth' mode for my blood pressure. Just those things would do it for me.
yah.
A trial would be sweet
This should be the minimum
That’s fantastic, I knew they wouldn’t let us down.
Always tomorrow
Fsd on hw3 works great, just not as good as the latest fsd on hw4.
The Robotaxis are autonomous but aren’t unsupervised. Even the delivery was supervised to an extent. There’s a big difference between supervised autonomy and unsupervised autonomy.
Unfortunately it’s a for-profit company. It doesn’t make sense to sell a $50k vehicle and make it fully upgradable, even when trading in your car back to them, that’s like $30k they make in revenue VS probably $2-$3k to retrofit parts
Okay Elon said they would do free retrofits ONLY if they cannot figure out FSD on HW3
It’s our money, WE WANT IT NOW!!!!
For real makes me look like a drunk driver.
I wonder if they'll use sparcity to only enable the parameters needed for a given scenario instead of all parameters at once to make 14 fit on HW3.
This is a joke. They won't look for a retrofit solution until they fix full unsupervised driving. Which is likely years away. Seems like my bet to buy a used model 3 with fsd in Europe was a waste of money.
right as hell. They just want to wait until every hw3+fsd car dead or transferred then announce that it is not "cost-worthy" to upgrade the system for so few owners
> It's a bullshit attempt at trying to appease the masses. You think this stuff is all easy? You think Tesla can just whip up a new hardware solution that drops into HW3 vehicles and suddenly have millions of them on hand ready to install? And that they just run v14 from day 1 with no development? Ignoring the time it would take to achieve that hardware and the software development, let's say they do create an upgrade like they did previously, to what end at this point? Just because v14 is all hyped up about being new and great, doesn't mean it's the end point to development. So Tesla could invest untold millions into bringing HW3 vehicles up to HW4 levels and then still have people like you bit(hing that they can't have v16 in another couple years. We were early adopters. HW3 vehicles are still incredibly impressive for what they can do, but there's not yet a "complete" point. Incrementally updating hardware on those HW3 vehicles to just have to create a whole additional upgrade again in a couple years is a massive waste of resources and as a shareholder and owner of two HW3 vehicles, I'm against it at this juncture. > HW3 was introduced in 2019. Ok? What other manufacturers continue offer as much software support as Tesla does for 6 year old hardware? I'll wait while you summarize a list of zero manufacturers. > Tesla is now saying in a very non-commital way that we might get a stripped down version of what is out today.. in 1 year. Tesla is not "now saying", they were saying this months ago. We knew HW3 wasn't getting v14 in its original iteration, but that Tesla was planning to get it working well with a few updates then would focus on optimizing for HW3.
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HW4 and v14 don’t yet meet their bold claims, so why do you feel obligated to be upgraded to it? And yes, the rest of my comment is relevant.
occasionally crashes
I agree but not in 3 years
They won’t, but they need to. They will continue to sacrifice our happiness and comfort to gather more training data—we’re just data cows getting milked dry for HW4. They give us just enough to drink that we don’t run bone dry.
So true with 12.3.6. I used to give my university students demo rides around campus and it was flawless including traffic circles. Now I can't even use 12.6.4 on a 2 lane straight road.
Cant wait to install this before gta 6
It’s not obsolete because a new version comes out, the RTX 3080 isn’t obsolete because the 4080 and 5080 released after
This is actually good news that they're willing to improve HW3 FSD. At least we're no longer stuck on 12.6.4 and declared EOL. It's already [a given](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/3263/tesla-to-bring-fsd-v14-lite-to-hardware-3-vehicles) they're not retrofitting any HW3 vehicles anytime soon because they do not want to make the same mistake like in the past (HW 2.5 to 3) and throwing resources down the drain again. What I'm not excited is that it's going to take them until Q2Y26 to give us HW3 users FSD 14 Lite. I'd think they should probably target Q1Y26 if they completed FSD 14.2 by the end of the year and spend that 1 quarter in Y26 to give us FSD 14 Lite.
YES
Admit it, that's for sure.
Sorry, they will get name changed.
Admit what
Look, I know someone is going to reply to this and say, “Well they promised it so they have to give it to us.” But one of my favorite things about Tesla is although sometimes Tesla can be an extreme “waiting game” company, it genuinely makes me happy to see that they continue to do their best to keep older vehicles in the loop. People really have to start realizing that other companies do not do this. By now you guys would be left in the dust. So let’s just be happy they are keeping this promise alive even if it is taking some time to do.
It make me giggle that there are any folks who don't see this as a delay tactic. Tesla has completely reneged on the promise for a HW4 by Elon and replaced it with a much more nebulous promise of a future "lite" software update. When Q2 next year rolls around, does anyone really believe it won't be pushed back and then pushed back again and again? They are hoping that customers move on and upgrade at the end of it all.
If this v14 lite can't drive unsupervised. then they'll still have to update the hardware.
Yup just like actually smart summon was coming to legacy HW3 s and x models in wuarter 4 of 2024…….. yup still waiting. They basically are just saying this to shut us up with a carrot on a stick until we eventually sell or scrap our cars.
I would love more customization for FSD ngl
By that time battery dead and need upgrade.
Except that this is not a trillion dollar product. Plus we are only talking about releasing it on older teslas here, that's at a best a few million dollars that will be much less if there's a retrofit needed.
😂
Can’t wait to install this in Q2 2029!
This sounds like a feature that should have stayed
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