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This came out of left field! Also https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-disbands-dojo-supercomputer-team-214056292.html This right after signing a deal with Samsung for the chips, which would obviously now fall apart. I don't know what this means for FSD... Or Robotaxi
Bro Samsung deal is for the FSD chips on cars, not Dojo.
The Samsung deal had nothing to do with Dojo.
They have Cortex 1 and Cortex 2 now for distributing self driving training. I think those two would way outshine Dojos capabilities.
Dojo is/was for training. Those are FSD chips for the cars themselves. Also, Dojo was always a second option for if they were able to reasonably pass the capability that Nvidia was providing. So it’s either that Nvidia is plenty capable and they didn’t need to hedge their bets, or they failed and they still have Nvidia as an option. Either way, it doesn’t change the trajectory or viability of FSD.
I guess they're finding buying compute on the open market to be working well enough. If I recall correctly dojo was their in house alternative
Yet another Elon hype comes to nothing.
You mean a reason for Nvidia to drop prices for tesla, because tesla was going to develop its own solution.. Yeh, nvidia dropped prices rather than have someone innovate a new solution.
Another huge hype was 4680 batteries. Amount to noting significant
That deal was for the in-car inference chips, not the training chips.
Exactly. Elon even said, very vigorously, that if he could get all the NVDA chips he needed there wouldn’t be a Dojo. He must be getting what he needs.
How much computer is needed to train vapour?
I didn't think you can in good faith call the leading vision based self driving system vaporware
He also said it would have so much leftover compute that Tesla would sell time on Dojo to other companies doing AI training, bringing in billions of dollars a year. Naturally, I expect a proper market correction from this. /s This is the original report, which cites "people familiar with the matter" - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-08-07/tesla-disbands-dojo-supercomputer-team-in-blow-to-ai-effort In other words, it's true, but Musk is about to tweet about how it's all fake news.
Vapor drove me 10hrs straight the other day
Damn! I thought my 3 hours was good lol
Elon said HW6 (partner with Samsung) is designed to be both inference (2 chips board) and training (512 chips per board). The latter probably replace dojo
Misleading title
Elon said HW6 (partner with Samsung) is designed to be both inference (2 chips board) and training (512 chips per board). The latter probably replace dojo
Misleading title. This is like saying apple stoped production of iPhones because they no longer make the iPhone 14. Meanwhile there are iPhone 15 and 16
He just talked about Dojo 3, like 1 week ago!
From one con onto the next con....
So Dojo 3 will just be a name change?
Why would you say it's a misleading title?
“Battery Day” and “AI Day” all to hype up investors
....?... Tesla still makes and uses the 4680.
Yeah now they’re making dojo2 instead of dojo1
Everybody he's hired to run Dojo has left. He doesn't have enough qualified people to keep it going. Seems to keep happening to him over and over.
Apple shuts down iTunes and stops producing iPods - previously promoted as the future of music. Short Apple stock.
I heard Cortez 3 is in the works as well, if 1 and 2 don’t outshine Dojos capabilities 3 will.
That's not what Elon said. In fact, he said Dojo is a long shot: > Musk described Dojo as “a long shot worth taking because the payoff is potentially very high. But it’s not something that is a high probability.” https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/21/elon-musk-buying-nvidia-hardware-even-as-tesla-aims-to-build-ai-rival.html Training chips are what's key to FSD. Whether those chips come from Tesla or Nvidia, it doesn't matter. It just matters how many training chips they have and how good those chips are. So if this news is true, they're just going to stick to buying training chips from Nvidia, which they've been doing anyway.
Because Dojo absolutely isn't key to FSD.
Sounds like you don't know what Elon actually said.
Yup. This guy probably doesn't even know there's a difference lmao. What a joke.
I don’t know if they have completed stopped and scrapped everything but they don’t talk about it anymore.
lol, house of cards
....?.... it's in the cars man... do you need a daily report on a battery they already developed, launched, and implemented? They've been building millions for the last few years now.
They have proved that over the past 10 years.
Cortical 4 is where the real action will take place.
That they don't need Dojo? Correct. They've just been using Nvidia chips for training.
And Dojo 2 was announced on the shareholders call in July
God he’s so full of shit. It’s really a black mark on humanity that such bullshit has been rewarded with the most wealth of anyone. Pitiful.
Cortney 5 is gonna be the the future
Lol
I didn't know people were so passionate about the dojo project? I always thought it was supposed to be more of a moonshot than a linchpin to FSD. Can't they just use Nvidia chips instead?
*only* vision based
Corvex 69 is where the fun begins
please cite the source as far as I can tell, only Cybertruck is using them. Model Y short range from single factory was using them, but that’s all
Cite my source that they're using the batteries that you just explained to me that they're using?
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Not many people understand that Dojo tile design requires the use of TSMC as they are the only ones offering fan out wafer capabilities.
I'm not sure what your point is. Tesla has nothing against using TSMC. They're using them for AI5.
The level of delusion it takes to state that Elon fucking Musk hasn’t been right about a single thing. Woof.
if these batteries are so great, why 5 years later less than 5% of their cars use them? Or is it another flop?
Cortana 7 is where the breakthroughs will be made
He said Dojo 3 would use AI6 chips. That's still the plan.
That was meant for someone else's comment, sorry
Or he cut the training chip program and obviously the team behind it would have to leave... You say this as if they haven't shipped AI3, AI4, and are close to shipping AI5. They've had a strong in-house inference chip design team for a long time.
Correct. This person just wants an excuse to whine about Elon.
The issue seemed to be two different designs, where the AI5/6 chips will be pretty good at training anyway. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1953662139752964179 These separate designs had to compete with each other as well as with NVidia to get devs to use them or they get cancelled. Surprise, surprise!!
Man, I guess that thing in my garage right now that drives me to work every day is just a pile of poo and doesn't really exist. You're delusional.
Ah, no worries.
Yes those cars do exist; it’s your principles that do not. Go back to playing your video games and let the adults handle the big boy topics.
What do you think Dojo 3 is? https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1953662139752964179
> Typical Elon bs. I have yet to see Elon being right about one single thing. All hype. If you're looking for the circlejerk, you're probably trying to find /r/electricvehicles or /r/selfdrivingcars.
Lmao. So you admit he created something valuable that millions of people have bought because they really like it. That's very different from what you were saying earlier, which was pretending that everything he works on never actually comes to fruition. My principles are to maximize human happiness. What are yours?
I'd even stand by that statement if you removed "vision based" entirely. Other manufacturer offerings are impressive but if you've ever used them you know they're worlds away from what Tesla is doing. Has Elon over-promised? Of course. That doesn't take away from the fact that FSD is still a killer system though.
Hows his bullshit x datacenter going?
Yeah that was like weeks ago man! Are you really trying to hold him to things he said WEEKS ago?! 🤷🏻♂️
Not a good look. Elon did say that dojo and Tesla hardware chips would likely converge over time. With the announcement of AI6 being manufactured by Samsung I wonder how that decision impacts the dojo team.
I never said nothing came to fruition. I said he’s full of shit. You maximize human happiness by playing video games and calling people delusional who hadn’t said anything to you? Good luck with that. I doubt you’ll leave much of a mark.
Clearly he's not full of shit if he's actually producing these things. I certainly don't maximize human happiness. But I support the policies, people, and companies that do. You're absolutely right that I will leave basically no mark (and neither will you). So I prefer not to tear down the people who do actually leave such a large and positive mark. I'm grateful for them.
If you’re MAGA Trumper then your statement makes perfect sense. If you disagree with those policies then you need to rethink your support.
I hate Trump and think he's an idiot. Always have. Tariffs? No thanks. I want cheap goods. Give me a free market. That's what Elon supports. I agree with the vast majority of Elon's stances. Not Trump's. I think it's you who needs to look at what policies Elon is actually in favor of. My guess is you'll be positively surprised.
You need to read through the BS. Tesla thought they could essentially build an Nvidia inhouse. Didn't make sense from the start.
Dojo was shut down because key people left, presumably because the project just didn't work. It's hard to build an Nvidia inhouse.
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Another failed Tesla dream. This one was definitely possible though. It's a shame.
Colonoscopy 8 will be revolutionairy
Maybe it didn't align with their mission anymore, so they cut the funding for it. It seems like the team has started their own company now, let's see what comes out of that
Yes it's pitiful he's created the most advanced space company in the world more advanced than any other countries space programs, the most advanced Wi-Fi systems that can reach anywhere in the world, the most advanced electronic cars and pioneered electronic cars, charging stations, automated driving and still even in China is rated as the most advanced automated driving system, as well as the most advanced tunneling system at the lowest cost, saving the government billions of dollars with all of their partnerships and contracts, not to count the most advanced cybernetic company. You dumb POS, get off of Reddit and go figure out what a woman is.
This is more like Apple stops producing in house music and just buys music from producers
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How so? Reportedly, a huge part of the team left to build their own startup densityAI which roughly has the same objectives as Dojo did.
Elon Musk basically said that in the past. It's bullshit of course but ...
lol non existent.
just one more AI Cluster bro, just one more
Most likely yet another total BS story peddled by short sellers.
At launch he said 1. FSD will be ready next month 2. We need to build the world's largest ever supercomputer over 3 years to solve FSD.
Interesting. An *in house* alternative? I thought in house was usually a primary resource. Are there other companies that do in house alternatives?
Because it was essentially replaced with another system. This would be like "apple shuts down iPhone manufacturing admitting it was a failure" when all they did was stop production of an old model or moved to a new factory and shut down the old one.
> let the adults handle the big boy topics. *-* u/ButtFartsNStuff Indeed.
Note that Copacabana 9 will need a full retraining pass
It doesn't matter what answer I give you. You're not here to support the company or the tech, you're here to shit on it, and no matter how satisfying an answer I give you or explanation as to the reasonings to why it's not in every vehicle, you'll just move the goal post. I'll pass.
This is what he told Tesla investors on earnings call just two weeks ago: > Dojo two, we expect to have Dojo two operating at scale sometime next year. With scale being somewhere around a 100k H100 equivalent. How do you go from this to cancelled in the span of two weeks?
No, the people left first and he had no choice. I know this from a primary source (colleague is a former employee on that program). Their entire team cleared out. This is what happens when you decide your company is second priority to hanging out with trump.
Not from a trusted source... Sooooo questionable
No, they didn't want to build an in-house Nvidia. Like Elon said, Nvidia has many customers and therefore needs to build a general solution for training. Dojo was designed to have just one customer, so it could be optimized for their specific training workload, and therefore be more efficient and more capable for that workload (assuming they execute well enough).
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Frankly, I don't believe you. There are too many people on Reddit obsessed with tribal politics and willing to make things up to further their tribe's narrative. It also doesn't line up with what I've seen Elon's engineers (current and former) say about him.
No, he didn't. He always said it was a long shot and potentially very beneficial, but definitely not necessary.
Training DNNs requires a very similar set of operations for various types of DNNs. I don't believe there's a meaningful benefit of customizing the hardware for Tesla's use case.
Capybara X, the return will win
I’d figure they’d want to leverage the DCs they built on the xAI side and/or experience from that. I’d guess it’s beyond what dojo’s capabilities ever were going to be.
I don't think either of us really know for sure. At least for inference, it seems that Tesla was able to design a chip that outperformed Nvidia for their workload. And I doubt Tesla is generally better at chip design than Nvidia, so it was probably the optimization for the specific system and workload that resulted in that outcome.
It never ceases to amaze me how people will always drag politics into every conversation.
Because Reddit is a left-wing cesspool. (I hate right-wing cesspools too, if anyone would like to make incorrect assumptions.)
Given how it’s named, I think it’s Dojo, the thing this post says just shut down.
I find it funny that people think Elons politics are equivalent to Trump's. He was never aligned to Trump, he just found the Democrats becoming too progressive and wanted a general shift away from that. I swear people don't actually listen to him, they just believe what the news tells them to.
Exactly. The Democrats also antagonized him, and he doesn't do very well with antagonization lol.
All it takes is one phone call from Jensen saying "We'll supply you for the next six years - however many GPUs you need we will deliver."
Believe whatever you want. Chip designers are a different breed and often get overworked and stressed. Elon decides he wants to build this chip, hires far too few chip engineers, expects them to do the work of 10X the staff like so they get over worked, tired and stressed. Then he goes to Washington and shits all over there making his entire company look like shit. So yeah, at that point what do you have to look forward too? Your design is going nowhere because you’re understaffed, you’re overworked, and everyone around you hates you for working at Tesla. I would leave too the second I got the chance
He is bullshitting. Training and inference have very different needs. They are two very different types of compute. HW4/5/6 are hardware designed to put in cars for inference (i.e., run the models). They are designed for low power consumption. Training hardwares, on the other hand, are much much more powerful and power hungry, designed to be used in a data center environment. Of course, either chips can do both training and inference, but if you design a chip with the goal of doing both, it’s going to be mediocre at both at best. This is like Nvidia comes out and say they don’t need to design another new next gen training GPU because chaining up 1000 of those GPUs that they put into the Switch 2 would be good enough. This is also why, even when they were all hopeful on Dojo a few years back, they never said that the Dojo chip was going to be put into any car. It was designed for training in a data center environment.
Yeah that doesn't line up at all with what I've heard the engineers say. They enjoy the small and efficient team and live for the challenge. There is no "overwork" for these guys. They thrive on this lifestyle. Their ideal scenario is the smallest team possible, filled with the absolute best engineers in the field, tackling a nearly insurmountable problem. Your mindset is basically antithetical to theirs. And they're not obsessed with left-wing politics like you are.
It isn’t. During the earnings call he mentioned Dojo 3 would be be based on boards with a large number of AI6 chips. I’m guessing either few people listened to the earnings call, or hardly anyone understood it. Certainly the media missed it, look how long it took to report and even so, they didn’t get that it’s a change in direction.
Oh Dojo, we hardly knew ye...
Your surprised the Tesla Engineers who speak about their jobs in private might be saying something different than the guy sitting in front of a camera?
This is former Tesla/SpaceX engineers too. Not just current ones. And even for the current ones, they wouldn't be working there if they didn't enjoy it. In fact, I heard one say he left due to the crazy workload but found the alternative boring, so he came back because what he valued the most was tackling the world's hardest problems with brutal constraints and the most efficient team you can imagine (Phil Duan, if you want to look him up).
More like Apple stops producing in house arm silicon designs and just buys chips from Qualcomm
Yeah, I could see this too. He's been very friendly with Jensen lately.
Colonoscopy 7 was a real doozy. <*weeps softly*>
...thinly vailed anti-Elon narrative. The irony of making a statement like "Elon has no choice" when it comes to most everything, but specifically assembling a team. lol.
Then they should’ve named it differently. Right now I’m looking at something named dojo, with a 3 at the end.
They've churned through everyone from Jim Keller to Peter Bannon and lost 20 people from the team to a startup created by the last guy who ran the project. All were heavy hitters in the chip design field. They didn't leave because they were underfunded, and they're working on projects that are too similar to say that they've moved on to something else. This has happened to Musk in the past. His Neuralink project has lost 6 of its 8 founders, and the former head left over safety issues and started his own project, (Benjamin Rapoport/Precision Neuroscience). But believe whatever you want. Your emotions are obviously more important than facts to you.
Huh? Jim Keller has been saying very positive things about Elon and Tesla since he left.
That's beside the point. Tesla still shut down Dojo.
So what? Why does it matter? The title claimed that it matters because it's "key to FSD", but that's not true. That's why it's misleading.
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Q2 2024 earnings call, Elon: “Thinking about Dojo 3 and the AI6 inference chip, it seems like intuitively, we want to try to find convergence there, where it’s basically the same chip.” And as of July of '24 they used 40k AI4 computer within Dojo. Elon: "~90k H100, plus ~40k AI4 computers" At the end of the day the fundamentals of these chips are hash rate per watt which is crucial for both battery powered cars and big data centers. Even if it takes 32 to 64 AI6 chips to equal an H100 that's still an H100. If Tesla/Samsung can deliver those chips at a scale and cost that is competitive with Nvidia it makes sense to do so. Total compute is the goal, cost and per-watt-efficiency are secondary goals.
Why rename it? We all understand what it is, because he told us 2 weeks ago.
You have no idea how the semi conductor industry works
Why are y'all so wrong about this stuff? Elon has literally said the opposite.
And not paying Nvidia 75% profit per GPU helps too. Even if it means they buy 50% less NV hardware per year for Tesla, that'll be a HUGE savings.
It's still alive.
The guy asked what we thought dojo was, and based off its name, I said I think it’s dojo, he said “well it isn’t that”, and I said “then they should’ve named it differently” because that’s what it makes me think it is, because of how its named. I’m not getting into an argument about why it should be renamed. I don’t care if it gets renamed. I was pointing out that when you ask someone what they think something is, based off the name, and they get it wrong, then it probably needs to be renamed.
And you do because you 'know a guy' who works in it?
That's a great point, they can make a chip half as efficient as Nvidia and still come in a better position.
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No I’m in it myself
Here's an interview with Jim Keller where he talks about Elon and Tesla after he left: https://youtu.be/Nb2tebYAaOA?si=H3zy-b6iCdTSxSOh&t=3866 (start at 1:04:26 for the Elon/Tesla part) I highly recommend you listen to it, because he's a much smarter person than you. Report back here when you're done. I suspect you won't, because it disproves your whole narrative. And thanks for setting up the dunk by voluntarily bringing up Jim Keller.
Yeah, he talked about the training chip architecture and the inference chip architecture as converging.
With the money pouring into NVDA, is it any surprise.
Isn't this what the linked yahoo article already says? >The disbanding of Tesla’s Dojo efforts follows the departure of around 20 workers, who left the automaker to start their own AI company called DensityAI. The new startup is reportedly coming out of stealth soon and is building chips, hardware, and software that will power data centers for AI that are used in robotics, by AI agents, and in automotive applications. DensityAI was founded by former Dojo head Ganesh Venkataramanan and ex-Tesla employees Bill Chang and Ben Floering.
I watched it 5 years ago when it came out. Other than liking Musk's approach to first principles, he didn't exactly slather Musk in glowing praise. Jim's a very smart man that I respect. On that we can agree. It's interesting that you focus on one person who has always been very diplomatic about all his former employers. You could have just as easily taken comments from Max Hodak or Ben Rapaport and gotten a different viewpoint.
I also listened to it 5 years ago and then listened again today. He clearly has a very positive perception of Elon, after listening to what he said here and in other places. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. It seems really disingenuous to say he doesn't, honestly. I'm not familiar with what Ben Rapoport has said. Please educate me. But for Max Hodak, again, with immense irony, he has been extremely positive about Elon after he left (rather, was fired from) Neuralink: > As for Neuralink, I was being genuine when I said that I learned a ton there and remain significantly invested in their success. The truth is that it wasn’t my choice to leave, and there was a lot left there I still wanted to do. But as usual, Elon was right: it was time for me to go. The background is complex and, in some sense, doesn’t really matter. In what should be a surprise to no one, Elon is by far the most effective operator I’ve ever met, and the four years I had there were, in retrospect, the best education on how to turn difficult technical problems into businesses I could have possibly found. https://maxhodak.com/nonfiction/2021/09/03/science So I'm really confused as to what you're referring to here.
Except they didn't. They are still going in that direction. Dojo 3 is still alive.
Exactly!
Or when Tesla scrapped the FSD C++ hand written human code and went full A.I. driving. Imagine if Bloomberg writing an article stating that "Tesla shuts down FSD plans!"
He was wrong. It "IS" Dojo 3 though. He was just incorrect on that.
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Amazing you didn't need to stop to charge.
Sounds like full self driving not coming anytime soon. Another reason to not believe a word they say
Call it hyperbole but I spent 10hrs driving, 12 with charging and food, and it was all on FSD
Jensen Huang said in a recent interview that Nvidia is working with all major customers directly to ensure that they have sufficient supply. Nvidia talks to their end users, gets a count of how many GPUs they are going to need and then builds their production around that. The end result is, lead times are realistically in the 6 month to a year time frame, from the conversation with the end user for the forecasted demand, but the end users are able to get as many as they need.
Elon got him elected. Everything trump does was enabled by elon and the people who gave Elon money. It’s simple math. Not sure why you guys are struggling with it. My guess is gullible and mis-informed with a splash of shallow and self-absorbed?
God you’re gullible. Have fun at work tomorrow.
Dojo doesn't make sense. Nvidia has won on training and everyone is using Nvidia for that purpose. It seems like Tesla still has an in house chip team for inference. That makes sense to keep in house because optimizing cost on inference chips helps make the company more scalable.
He certainly helped. That doesn't mean Elon shares the same policy stances as Trump. They obviously agree on some things, but they disagree on many others too. Can you name some of Elon's policy stances that you think are bad? I bet you cannot.
Did the ever produce the dojo tile? Thr computer they claimed was better than nvidia offering
Great, now the janitor is going to be cleaning in this closed off room in about 3 months and turn Dojo back on by accident. No one will know for a while and.. things will start … happening. Bad things..
Or it’s a good way to send money to xAI to prop up their revenue and push full utilization of all the data centers they’re building.
Sorry, all the data we used to teach Dojo self drive turned out to be useless as some f…er forgot to put Lidar in the cars. Thanks for your attention on the matter
Or it’s short sellers telling the truth.
That they don't need anything to deliver nothing
it’s still a plan
He's probably using a portion of Xai to help with FSD
Further development is cancelled. Dojo-2 has completed tapeout and is still going into production.
Colossus is better than dojo
This is a very good question imo. I’m thinking he will forward this effort or fold this somehow into XAI. Maybe it would reduce Tesla overhead, improve margin to run this chip boondoggle (kidding really bc I really believed in this project) offload expenses from his public co. to his private. Better to get private funding to cover it. I’m really hoping they’re close to some chip breakthrough and also going into stealth mode. Prolly in magical thinking mode. Man I am bummed ://
They are running out of cash....
Amazing for a company to be able to instantly pivot when they see a wiser solution. Most companies start worrying about sunk costs and getting approvals and years before pulling the plug. Just another reason why Musk companies are so far ahead of competitors.
Well, if the new Samsung chips deliver then yeah, that'd be correct.
If you think they won’t , you might not understand the technology.
Tesla is heading for a slow motion collapse. Self-driving cars are not safe or viable, and frankly Tesla are hideously out of date. BYD and the German manufacturers have better offerings.
Building specialist AI chips is a fast route to bankruptcy, unless you are NVIDIA.
Huh? Tesla has built (designed) AI chips in-house for 9 years now and has put them in over 7 million cars so far. And they're not bankrupt. In fact, they're very profitable. At Tesla's scale, they can absolutely afford an in-house chip design team lol.
My new TESLA COMMERCIAL re-visions "Think Different"-got enough spark to jolt your engineering brain:) [https://x.com/seffyhirsch/status/1962551381052600691](https://x.com/seffyhirsch/status/1962551381052600691)
Seems to me he hires A+ people with the horsepower and initiative to get the job done. It doesn’t surprise me that when they all get together they start thinking ‘startup’. That’s the other edge of the double edged sword of hiring the best.
keep fucking that chicken!
?
Dat's a good point, never thought about that.
That's not entirely right. If you look at all the other big players in tech you'll see that they all have similar programs. The reason being that NVIDIA GPUs are very expensive and just as expensive is the service that comes along with them. If you can build your chips in house then you don't pay the overhead and profit that NVIDIA currently makes (it's a lot right now). Assuming a 25% savings if dojo would have been able to replace NVIDIA, then you're looking at a billion dollars a year in savings. Not to mention that when you build your own chips you get to dictate the infrastructure that supports those chips. For example, look at the data centers from hyperscalers and you'll notice their in house built infrastructure that serves their hardware has much broader environmental tolerances. On top of that, the program recently had a huge turnover of key players (see articles on density AI and Dojo). This wasn't a strategic play from Elon to save money (dojo's success would have saved money) or that Jensen suddenly made chips appears, it was a hand forced due to brain drain.
Chupacabra 42. Thats what you're really waiting for.
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