Elon Musk reaffirms role as Tesla CEO, says no concerns with demand

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From the article: Elon Musk says he intends to remain CEO of Tesla for at least the next five years, while saying the company is not experience issues with demand, expect in one market. The comments came during a video interview at the Qatar Economic Forum on Tuesday, where Musk responded to questions about his political involvement, leadership at Tesla, and the company’s recent sales figures. When asked directly if he saw himself continuing as Tesla’s CEO in five years’ time, Musk answered with a simple “Yes.” Pressed further, he added with a laugh, “I can’t be still here if I’m dead.” Musk’s statements on his continued leadership comes amid growing scrutiny over his political ties and time commitments to projects beyond Tesla, including the U.S. government’s Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE). Along with his involvement in DOGE, Musk has donated at least $250 million in support of Trump’s re-election campaign, but that appears to be over, at least for now. Musk said, “I’ve done enough. If I see a reason to do political spending I will, but I don’t currently see a reason. I think I’ve done enough.”

>the company is not experience issues with demand, expect in one market What market is that... Earth? Reports are suggesting otherwise. Elon needs to turn this ship around and quick.

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The amount of airtime he’s received on mainstream media has drastically declined in the past few weeks. Thank god

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I wish that’s what actually happened, like we as a society/our media decided organically that’s enough of this guy, but it seems like someone at Tesla, or Trump, or a big investor got through to him and told him to go mind his companies.

Ugh Elon read the room, step down for a year or 2, when you're done playing politics you could come back. It worked well for Steve Jobs, he pissed off so many people they removed him and when he came back the company went through a huge boom because he was more focused on their products.

Elon drama aside.. the reality is that Tesla is losing one of their major advantages in having THE only good all around EV. There are plenty of good choices out there as opposed to 10 years ago.. even 5 years. Opening the supercharger network eased some range anxiety for other EV brands and like it or not… the general public doesn’t care about Full Self Driving enough yet to make that a major factor in their purchase.

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Yea with real competition in the EV market, it’s easy for all the customers he’s alienated to take their business elsewhere. I honestly can’t see the customer facing side of the business recovering while he’s still the face of the company.

He needs to fix the Cybertruck. Quality is really bad. Imagine if this was made in Shanghai…

People are saying

Steve Jobs didn’t “step down” and he didn’t just “come back”. And what happened to apple during that timeframe?😂

👍👍👍😂 Of course, there are already 5 million pre-orders from Mars, which every investor has already priced in ... 🥳

Uhmm. Steve was always focused on the products…. They fired him because he disagreed with Sculley and the board wanted more control over the products. Then the board and CEO rat fucked the company, and brought Steve back to just do what we he was doing before.

That truck never should have been made.

Unfortunate

Full self driving cars are at least 20 years away, regardless of the stuff Elon says. It is not enough if the car drives correctly in 99% of the cases, you need 99.99999% to be comparable to a capable human driver.

Elon should spend more time having sex in Germany, and more time prototyping in China. Germany esthetics + china engineering and speed. Nothing can beat this. Unfortunately he has very poor taste…

Elon is too egotistical. Been the issue since day 1

Yes Steve Jobs I said was removed. His case was much more complicated. Elon has so many buddies and family on the board he could leave and hopefully get more focused and come back.

dramaticly declining demand and purchases all acros Europe.

This is pretty much exactly it. I think most would agree that per dollar spent, a model 3/y is the best car per dollar out there. You can tell by, well, what the best selling car in the world is. But the difference is, while they are still, again by most standards, the best today, before they were the best and the rest was kind of trash. Now you can get cars that are different and much, much, much closer in quality to a Tesla. Today, the smart move is to buy the Tesla, but will we be saying that next year or the year after?

I was going to buy a tesla as my first EV. I got a chevy bolt instead. I decided to save for a ~5 years before buying it, and I'm glad I did, because so much changed with tesla over those few years. If I had impulse bought a tesla with no money down I would have regretted that decision so fucking bad lol.

Even if FSD was 100% in 5 years it wouldn’t mean anything if all the other non teslas don’t have something just as ready as FSD. Autonomous driving won’t fix the issues of the road until every car in every brand is autonomous

Their quarterly reports: https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/IR/IR/TSLA-Q1-2025-Update.pdf

I keep reading that, but fail to see it. Which ones offer the same value per dollar? A lightly used 3 or Y for sub 30k beats anything I can see out there.

Spoken like someone who’s never used FSD

Don’t lie. Tesla is hands down the best car in the world to own right now and once you drive one it’s impossible to go back. Nothing comes close.

And for me that's at least five more years where I won't divest my shares.

BYD has some bangers. Too bad you can’t get them.

Not going to help. People aren't going to forget this.

It's not that it needs to be 99.99% accurate, it needs to be able to account for the .001% that a human may be better at... The reality is, even camera based driving is "safer" UNTIL you add ANY change in conditions. Fog, snow, construction, random pedestrians entering the street, power outages at intersections, traffic cops... Heck even a pothole could detail a drive and make conditions unsafe.

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They got rid of him because Apple had been struggling for years and had screwed up with the prior few big product launches. Steve Jobs had been failing for years when they let him go.

🙄

😂

Reaffirming my decision in February to ditch the Model 3 Performance for a BMW i4. I cannot and will never support an openly right wing extremist CEO. So 5y+ of Tesla out of discussion. Or more for keeping him around. That also says a lot about a company. Burning so many early adopters and loyal customers will harm Tesla. Short as well as long term.

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>You can tell by, well, what the best selling car in the world is. Best selling car q1 2025: Toyota Corolla Tesla model Y is in 4th place, Tesla model 3 is 8th.

Why would he?

And yet somehow, my model Y drives me to work and home in 99% of my drives on full self driving and I don’t touch the steering wheel and I don’t touch the accelerator pedal. It went through a construction zone in Western Massachusetts this morning we crossed over to the left side through cones and she handled it like a champ.

Might be news to you but different people define "value" of a car differently than you. Some even look at other factors than only motor power

They have driverless Waymo cars out right now.

At this point, I would be happy if Tesla stopped making cars and just built out and managed the supercharger network.

That's exactly what I think happened too. Someone much more powerful than him slapped him around and told him to stop.

lol there are many cars far better and nicer.

They are not driving everywhere on normal roads, but only in specific areas.

Maybe five or 6 years ago. No longer. Plenty of competition in the US alone.

I think there is a fairly decent chance that demand never recovers from this. The perception of cool is gone. So many of the early buyers were liberals and will never return. After DOGE, Republicans even agree he's a douche.

It is experiencing issues with demand but he didn’t say that. He said experience issues. There’s nothing wrong with the car experience and ordering process m.

In terms of the conventional vehicle hardware, Tesla has always been behind and others have been catching up on the EV parts. But they are all still lagging when it comes to software features. And not just things like FSD and Summon... even basic conveniences like being able to have different charge schedules at different locations, or being able to easily share vehicle access via the app. So no the situation hasn't really changed as much as everyone has hoped... traditional OEMs are still playing it conservative and cheap with software features.

Cars as in vehicle hardware yes, but software no. In terms of the whole package, I think Tesla still comes out ahead in terms of user convenience.

Why are you even on this forum then? It sounds like you aren't interested in Tesla.

Maybe, but I personally get great relaxation and enjoyment from letting FSD drive me 95+% of the time. I find it good enough now that I would have a very hard time switching to another brand without it. I have an R2 on pre-order, but I keep reading about how bad Rivian driver assistance is, and how it does basically nothing for you if you’re not on a limited access highway, which most of my driving is not. That may end up being the dealbreaker on the R2 for me, and each update that makes FSD better just makes it that much harder to lose it.

*for the price

It’s funny to me how many protestors take part in the Tesla takedown when you know they all have a ton the stock in their 401k. Most don’t even know it. If they really wanted to hurt him selling their stock or making sure they don’t hold a fund with the stock in their retirement accounts (nearly impossible) would cause way more angst for him than keying someone’s car.

womp womp

glad to have him back and focused. 😊👍🏻

Is that one market Earth?

Power is very low on the list of reasons why Teslas are better.

“Not a demand problem”….. he’s gaslighting us at this point

Why do all cars need to be autonomous?

> There are plenty of good choices out there as opposed to 10 years ago.. even 5 years. Owning one of those choices (2024) at the same time as a new Tesla (2025), I can confidently say that no, there are not.

This is purely subjective nonsense. As someone who did indeed “go back”, the only thing I miss is the phone key. Otherwise, it’s no more special than any other car I’ve driven, and uniquely limiting compared to more capable vehicles.

They seriously squandered their lead by focusing on Robotaxi. They should have focused on making their existing cars better and rolling in the tech from cybertruck like steer by wire and 48V into their other vehicles.

Couldn’t you buy a used one (or I suppose keep your current one if you already have one) without giving them your money

People will have huge virtue and principles and political views when it's convenient for them. Are they going to decline to use free Starlink on a flight, if Robotaxi is half the price of an uber or Waymo will they pay that higher price. It's ironically the whole premise of Tesla Elon had in the first place, that people weren't going to buy EVs just because they were a good moral choice, that they needed to be better/cheaper/faster etc...

How about the ability to travel? Recently ran into a couple stranded at a tesla charging station in a dodge EV. The number of non tesla cars that show up at the tesla stations when traveling is crazy, most saying they decided to give it a try after going to a broken third party charger. I travel all around all the east cost and never have an issue with charging. With FSD and plenty of charging traveling is amazing. That is why I love Tesla and no other EV offers that.

100% - 5 more years of knowing that Tesla is run by someone who built it to what it is today and who cares about it more than anyone, especially cares about it more than some exec for hire they bring in. Only idiots think it's a good idea to boot founders, like they're so easily replaceable.

I don't know, I'm pretty happy with my Bolt. Honestly, I'm just not as impressed with Tesla as I was 8 or so years ago. I think they paved the way for EVs, but I'm not sure they're still the top choice in every category

It started when they brought on Sculley, and ended with firing a Sculley. It’s pretty obvious who was fucking things up.

FSD sure, but Kia, Lucid and them definitely have gotten good range. FSD seems to really be the only difference. I'll give Tesla that. But others are likely developing their version too.

100% agree the board is complicit. I think the real fear driving them is Musk leaving might finally cause Tesla stock price to come back down to earth and be less of a meme stock. There is no logically reason to explain Tesla stock price or value as it could loose 90-95% of its value and still be argued it is over valued. The question is not if Tesla stock price will crash it is a matter of when and it is going to be ugly when it happens. Now that being said I am not betting money on shorting the stock as when is nuts. The real betting is the few shares of Tesla stock I did have are either sold or getting sold as I rather not be caught holding the bag when it happens.

Yeah even if you take Musk out of the equation they don't seem like the cool, modern tech that they used to. The cars are kind of bland and uninteresting at this point.

What's he going to say? "We have a demand problem"?

most 401k are going to have very little Tesla stock in them. You are talking sub 2% of the 401k value to even less than that. I am basing this on my manage IRA account that I can see what stocks are held. The high percentage of my total profolio of any one company is like 3-4% and I can promise you it is not Tesla. Tesla is at that around 1% or less range. I have not manage any of the buying and selling of the stock. That is what the company I have it with does. It is going to match most 401k. Also no single company is going hold more than 10% of my total assets and in that case of my wife and me that is roughly 10% in my wifes employers stock and even there we are doing what we can to minimize it growing to a larger share of our total assets.

I think he started to quiet down soon after the Hitler incident.

Great, more for us!

A lot of 401ks are limited to being able to buy specific funds. A lot of those funds hold Tesla and then again by holding the S&P and various funds of the S&P. Although it might not be a large portion of their portfolio, it’s there. The point I was making is most don’t even know it and might be surprised by how much it’s there. With the growth in the powerwall division I think it’s a good stock to hold, but I wouldn’t be accumulating it at present.

FSD is designed for stuff other than “fixing the issues of the road” Let’s say it gets to 100% that opens up Cheaper taxi service, the ability for a car to drive a child to school/aftivities/etc while a parent is at work, the ability to sleep while you drive Full 100% safe autonomy is about much more than fixing congestion or whatever else on the road needs fixing. If anything it might make it worse if it increases the demand for driving. Also it could reduce the number of cars a single household needs. If I can send my car back home after I get to work for my family to use who then sends it back to me. That could save a family hundreds a month in car and insurance payments

I also think he did what he set out to do. He got into the doors of lots of agencies and stripped them down and gutted them . Mission accomplished so he’s out

I can’t stand the company. But I have their shingles, powerwalls, and a couple cars. As far as EVs go anything besides a Tesla is hot trash imo. Better modular Battery tech, self driving, smart home charging with a Powerwall, range, all of it. Will I buy another anytime soon? No, but they are so much better than a fucking Chevy bolt. Don’t even get me started on how lack luster GM has been. I bought their stock in 2017 because they were supposed to have like 25 evs by now. Clowns. Oh, and self driving is absolutely incredible. Again, hate that Elon, but their cars are just better. If another company can give me a way for the house and vehicles and everything to work together to give me a net zero combustion free life then I’ll be open to it. But they literally still have everyone else beat by a country mile. PS- I still sold my stock though. Company is fucked.

I am basing this on the fact that while my IRA is managed so I can see a little behind the curtain so to speak and i can directly see how much of any 1 stock I have I take that as those funds are going to generally follow the same practice. That is not over loading any single stock in that fund. Meaning the funds are going to limit Tesla stock ownership to 1-2% of the total funds value Hence while it is going to very little of anyones 401k value. That and in convocations with the guy who manages my stuff I learned how a lot of the funds generally work. They are not going to go more than 1-2% in any one stock. To much risk. They will spread it among a broader category.

It’s how the company is structured. The ai, the tech from spaceX, the battery manufacturing, and Tesla are all separate. They feed each other. Elon has said that if they remove him Tesla loses access to those shared technologies. He structured it so they can’t remove him without damaging the company.

Of course they’re interested in Tesla, but turned off by their current CEO.

Steve Jobs hired Sculley. Then he sold his shares and quit because people listened to him over Jobs.

Very good point

I’m aware.

According to the comments below, none. There doesn't exist a $41k better than the model y, much less an EV.

It’s not a demand problem, it’s a bunch of other problems that are leading to demand problems

Why are you still on this sub and why are you commenting?

I’m not saying you’re wrong necessarily, and it’s great that you’re so on top of your retirement. But look at it this way…. Tesla stock is 66% institutionally owned. Those are funds and funds of funds. What I was saying is that all these people crying about boycotting Tesla, if you really wanted to tank the stock call your broker, fund manager, whomever, and tell them to sell the stock. Standing out in front of my local service center screaming at me to sell my car isn’t going to hurt Elon. Remove 66% of the demand for his stock, and now maybe you’ll get his attention.

I think he realized he couldn’t trim $1T out of the federal budget and gave up. Didn’t even get close (~$150B).

I think the more accurate thing to say is that Elon making news or opening his pie hole to opinionate about news has been reduced recently. But the damage is still done to the brand.

His brother and best friend are on that board. It was never independent.

The first sign of a good leader is to take responsibility for mistakes—even if you think those mistakes are not your fault. I would be more psyched about his reaffirmation of his role if he started by acknowledging reality.

Yeah but it’s Chinese subsidized bait to destabilize our auto industry. Which we walked right into by sitting on our hands when it was time to innovate.

And most people don't give a shit about fsd yet. Just Tesla nerds.

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Imagine having a car drive you anywhere. Now imagine saying no to that because you feel so stronger about Musk. That is mind boggling.

your reddit bubble does not represent reality at all the shareholder votes have exposed you every time

Soft

"There are plenty of good choices out there as opposed to 10 years ago.. even 5 years." **I disagree.** While there are more EVs available, there are many aspects of each that are far worse than Tesla. **They aren't "good" choices imo, they are compromises.** 1) Tesla Service Mode and full detailed free service manuals are like nothing any manufacturer has ever done before, especially useful for used, out of warranty vehicles. No one else comes close. 2) Tesla's continuous hardware support in their car OS for years and years is far beyond the competition. 3) Tesla Autopilot/FSD is usable on any road and is the best from my experience. 4) Tesla Motor/Inverter/Battery hardware and firmware software = highest efficiency that blows the competition away (except low volume lucid) = lower cost per mile to drive even at DC fast charging prices. 5) Tesla Safety is as good as it gets, both in terms of impact absorption and prevention. 6) Tesla Supercharging reliability and user experience is the best. 7) Tesla prices are better for what you get in terms of features included at the base price. The competition nitpicks too much on feature up pricing and dealer fees. 8) The dealership (service center / purchase) experience I've personally had at Tesla is way more chill

Safer

That sounds like a very US-centric view. In the rest of the world we have plenty of choice and Model 3/Y are starting to look a bit stale.

It’s not US centric at all. I’m actually a certified automotive tech. I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and jumped to EV’s. What in telling you is your not comparing apples to apples. They are just better and you just don’t know what your talk about Frenchy. • In-house battery tech (4680 cells, high energy density) • Best thermal management systems • Industry-leading drivetrain efficiency • Lowest drag coefficients • Smart software + OTA updates • Most advanced real-world self-driving (FSD) • Vertical integration = faster innovation • Gigacasting + unboxed assembly = lower costs • Minimal maintenance, no dealership BS • Access to Supercharger network • High resale value • Best MPGe = lower charging costs The whole world sat on their hands when it came time to make the transition to electric vehicles. US was the worst, but Europe was no exception.

Opening the Supercharger network seemed absurd to me. Why give up one of the biggest differentiators? At the time I figured Elon knew what he was doing and would leverage it somehow. Of course this was before we all found out he's actually an idiot.

Those specific areas are getting pretty large, dude.

Which US cars do you consider to be competitive to a 3/Y?

That's why I pulled all my money out of TSLA. The man is absolutely delulu. It's hard to be invested in a company, when it's 100% controlled by a single person (the board doesn't do anything but sell shares) who has repeatedly made statements that would make any impartial observer say "wtf". 1) "these are paid protesters" 2) "people don't care about the political views of a CEO" 3) "it's all cause of the model y changeover, we couldn't make the car" as if Junipers aren't piling up in inventory RIGHT NOW, with Juniper promos already starting in the first month of Q2. 4) and most damning of all "Europe is bad but we're doing fine everywhere else.." It's like, "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" as if it's not possible to look up EV sales in Europe, China, Australia, and the US to see how Tesla is comparing with the overall growth of the EV market. It's honestly disturbing, and a little sad, that someone can be so detached from reality. I think Tesla is in big trouble if they are going to be led by someone that loves to surround himself with sycophants and won't awknowledge reality.

Every EV on the market basically. Kia and Hyundai especially. Mach e if you can find one well priced. They've all caught up in features and range imo and their ui is catching up.

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Tesla is US subsidized day 1

Traded for a whatnow? This BMW? Sure, their executives weren’t as bad as Elon. But … > The owner at the time was Gunther Quandt. > **Quandt and his son, Herbert, were friendly with Adolf Hitler and not afraid to use political connections to take advantage of the Holocaust and businesses seized by the government to manufacture weapons, artillery, ammunition and U-boat batteries.** > **The company retained some 50,000 forced laborers and concentration camp prisoners during the war.** These forced laborers were forcibly taken from German-occupied territories or were prisoners of wars. But he didn’t cut any government spending, so your moral high ground is safe.

The Kia infotainment/navigation system is really terrible.

That I agree with fully

All my normie friends still ooo and ahhh at it. The cool hasn't worn off, there's just a perception that they're still uber expensive luxury vehicles. A budget friendly model would bring the demand but Tesla doesn't want to cannibalize 3/Y

As a Model 3 (sr+ 2020) owner with 250k kms on the clock I can confidentely say that part of problem with demand is due to EVs just being too good. I have not had to do any major maintenance and the car works perfectly. I know for a fact that I won’t change my car because it’s just not necessary, and many other people that were in the first wave of EV adoption have the same thought for sure.

GM said they’d have about 20 EVs on the market by 2024 I believe. Well they currently have 12 models in the U.S. plus 4-5 additional in China. Not sure what your complaint is. Forward planning isn’t an exact science, but they’ve tracked pretty close to that goal. Tesla was planning to sell 20m cars a year by 2030. How’s that trending? Not sure how you can say any of the Hyundai Ioniq series (or Kia EV# series) is “hot trash,” just to pick one competitor. Those vehicles are consistently ranked at the top of the review charts.

They did make their existing cars better as both the Model 3 and Y were refreshed just recently. Drive by wire and 48V have some benefits, but for the target price point they don’t make sense until you get better economies of scale. The current 12V architecture and drive line works well for these consumer vehicles.

I have a difficult time taking anyone seriously when they say FSD is “absolutely incredible.” In my experience FSD is as reliable as a 15 yo kid on a learners permit. However, unlike the kid, it makes the same mistakes over and over and you still need to be ready to seize control at any moment for no obvious reason. Source: Model 3 owner who tried FSD for two months in a major US metro. As for human driving it’s a very nice car and loads of fun. I have no regrets based on the car itself.

Hahahahahahahahaha

This is when we believed in his mission of helping the world ween its dependence on fossil fuels

This was 80 years ago… of course extremely problematic, but still very much in the past. There is no indication of any wrongdoing today. While Elon being a facilitator for a wannabe dictator today.

Waymo and Zoox are both in 6 cities.

What sucks is those people don't understand the simple software advantage Tesla has, let alone everything else. They'll believe some dealer and but their EV, then have to go back to the dealer for software upgrades. They also won't know how great Teslas one pedal driving is. I couldn't stand the Taycan because of no one pedal option. Like why? There are so many nuanced differences.

Oh please, Sculley didn't come up with the Lisa. He wasn't even there when the Apple III crashed and burned. Jobs was trying to compete with IBM on the business desktop market which was stupid -- 45 years later Apple still hasn't managed to do that. Even Wozniak says Jobs was screwing up at that point.

I also have a MY. In my experience, the driving assist makes regularly mistakes, some are quite dangerous: * It randomly breaks on highways without a valid reason, e.g. when someone is on the acceleration strip or if someone overtakes with high speed (180+ km/h).  * In traffic jams, it does not form a rescue lane (this is very annoying because otherwise the driving assistant would be very helpful in traffic jams). * It has issues in construction sites or when lanes are partially blocked (e.g. due to parking cars). It is somehow manageable when you know what to expect. But definitively very, very far away from a self-driving car.

Is that with FSD or Autopilot, though? FSD is only available in the US and performs much better than Autopilot in my experience.

There’s always been plenty of reason to not buy a Tesla but I guess they weren’t useful in self affirmation and social media kudos huh

Autopilot, I am not in the US.

80 years ago. Like it or not, they are not the same and this pathetic behaviour has damaged the brand.

>Kia, Lucid and them definitely have gotten good range How does that address an inability to charge when traveling? Unless Kia and Lucid have nuclear reactors that charge themselves. >FSD seems to really be the only difference. I would even take a really good lane assist but the only car that comes CLOSE is the kia ev. Tested ford blue and GM super cruise and they all suck. They either don't work on most roads or dangerously disengage randomly because the road is not supported.

Cringe

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Well, full self driving isn’t actually a thing. Right now it’s basically lane detection. Big whoop

Looks like they just flatlined deliveries. Are people really saying demand is down? Didn’t a new model y just come out? Maybe that’s why people aren’t ordering new models? Lol

He was already on this path when they decided to open up the charging network… He just stepped it up a notch leading up to the election. Opening the network up allowed NACS to become the de facto standard. It’s already the largest network, and they’re maximizing revenue by increasing the consumer base. If Tesla sales drop, it no longer means that supercharger revenue drops alongside it. That’s probably why they opened it up.

It’s like when reporters ask players of the losing sports team how they feel about the next one. Of course they’re going to say “we’re winning next game”, they’re not gonna be like “nah it’s over, we might as well pack up and go home.”

>Steve Jobs had been failing for years when they let him go. Yep. And he continued to fail with NeXT, because he was in charge of design and had zero talent for it. The real secret of Apple's resurgence was Jobs promoting Jonny Ive in 1998, who designed pretty much every successful Apple product for the next 20 years. Jobs was always great at attaching to talented people like a lamprey and riding them to success. He just returned to the same tactic he originally used on Woz with Ive: pretend he's their best friend and convince them it's a partnership when the other guy is doing 95% of the work.

Yeah, the well is truly poisoned at this point for me. I still enjoy my 22 Model Y Performance, but this is my first and last Tesla. In the future, I'll be looking at other brands.

Not to mention FSD costs WAY too much and isn’t even feature complete. They’re also still selling it full price to customers with older vehicles that they’ve already stated won’t be able to do FSD. Like, it’s almost vapor ware scam at this point. “But you have to try it” I have, in a hardware 3 vehicle last October and it was really cool. Nearly getting me point A to point B, but Elon stated after that at the Robotaxi event that Hardware 3 likely won’t be compatible with FSD and will need an upgrade, but only for those that bought FSD? It’s fragmented, confusing, and frankly not ready for prime time. Couple that with the general public assuming that teslas that drive themselves are unsafe (from experience of talking to people about my car) it’s silly to base the stock price on that.

I don't think detailed Lidar maps is as difficult as you imply. When you have a bunch of Lidar equipped cars on the road, you can parallelize that task. This seems very solvable.

This is true. I bought a 2021 back in October, the price was comparable to a used Honda civic of about the same age. It appears to be more “Luxury” for some odd reason, but the price and quality do not show that. So when people say “how’d you afford that” I’m always like “it’s not that expensive to buy in the first place, and used prices aren’t bad either” and they’re always so confused.

> extremely problematic, but Yes. Problematic. Murdering Jews, enslaving 50,000 of them in work camps… *problematic, but*

And it’s a net loss because revenue estimates are down way more than $150B as a result eg gutting IRS, taxes on federal employees payroll etc.

They are definitely not the same. The absurdity of choosing one based on ethics though, priceless. One partnered with Hitler to murder Jews and extract their slave labor in work camps. Like it or not. “I’m choosing to be against the one whose leader cut my favorite spending program, that’s worse than killing a bunch of *checks notes* Jews. Ugh.”

Wot?

Yup. Can't do it without cutting Medicare and there's no will for that cause old people vote.

If you only want safer, then every FSD adds to the safety. It scales. I suspect more likely they're talking about traffic. Almost all traffic is due to humans driving poorly enough that they have to brake hard, which causes traffic behind them. If every car was FSD, most traffic would clear up and we'd be left with only traffic due to accidents/hazards and then due to traffic inherent to road designs, like traffic due to intersections. But then, if implemented correctly, every FSD car can individually reduce traffic, as well. There is an anti-traffic form of driving where you leave a large space in front of your vehicle so that you don't have to brake hard. This also scales so that each car participating improves traffic to some degree. But it's pretty clear that the current FSD software doesn't follow this tactic.

I agree FSD isn't actually a thing, because you need to have a vigilant driver watching the entire time, but my car with "FSD" does a heck of a lot more than just lane detection. It reliably can go from wherever I am to any point I give it by itself.

\> Opening the supercharger network eased some range anxiety for other EV brands Yep. I've been saying since the first announcement that it was going to bite them in the ass. The numbers never made sense, the kind of profit they could get from supercharging a competitor's vehicle is not ever going to be worth more than capturing that customer as a vehicle purchase. The only upside to opening the supercharging network was making a few bucks (and really, it's just a pittance in the grand scheme) from the people who would not have bought a Tesla for some other reason. But I am glad they did. I am happy that I can charge my Lightning at the same places I'm used to stopping with my Model 3. I **might** have still chosen the Lightning anyway (the CT is not really my cup of tea), but the decision was **much** easier knowing I could access good quality charging locations and not be stuck with EA.

I feel ya. We had a Bolt as a cheap lease ($6K for 3 years) and it absolutely over performed my expectations. I was thinking it would be good for the mind numbing highway miles my wife puts on the car for her business, but otherwise be a shitty little compliance car. But it was actually a fun little car and really surprised us. I might buy one for my kid next year when she turns 16, if I don't just give her our Model 3.

In Canada, we slapped reciprocal tariffs, making Tesla's more expensive. We need a second car, but can't be brand new right now with the price hikes. I assume a lot of Canadians are in the same boat

I was thinking it was probably the automotive market.

I am trying to think of a way that my Model 3 is superior to my Lightning, aside from handling. Especially in day-to-day use. Infotainment is better in some ways, granted. Worse in others. I guess sentry cams is a differentiator, though it is not super high on my must-have list. The Ford is faster, quieter, smoother, and of course it is way more capable since it is a truck. Lane keeping is similar but the truck does have auto-resume and the Tesla does not. I stop at the same superchargers, plug-and-charge exactly the same way. The price on the Ford was competitive, cheaper than my Model 3LR was. The safety score is excellent. The local dealer is pretty chill. I think Tesla fans may not be looking too closely at the competition. Even first-gen EVs from other manufacturers are frequently quite good. And they have some features Tesla is still unwilling to provide. Meanwhile, Tesla removes controls and cheapens existing features without having completely solved the automation angle first. If I were shopping for a car now, I'd see choosing a Tesla as a compromise. I'd only do it for an M3P or a Plaid because I was willing to put up with the annoyances in return for the performance.

\> What sucks is those people don't understand Are you **sure** they don't understand? \> have to go back to the dealer for software upgrades. Tesla is not the only OTA capable car company. I've gotten several updates on my Lightning OTA. Tesla does it more often, for certain. But it's kind of a mixed bag -- my Lightning is way more customizable by me, which is not true of my Tesla. I had matrix headlights on the Ford way before I got it on my Model 3. \> how great Teslas one pedal driving is On the contrary. My Lightning's one pedal driving functions exactly the same. With the one exception that it also supports blended braking if I want -- which is not a feature my Model 3 has. The Taycan might well be the **only** EV without one pedal driving. But it's kind of a unique car from a fairly opinionated manufacturer, so that tracks.

There is no fixing the CT, really. Most of the problem is the design. It is very polarizing, very opinionated, and relegates the truck to a niche vehicle. Even if the quality was great, most people are put off by the design and want something more traditional. They could probably juice sales for a year or so by making the price 40K like they promised. But even then, I expect that would be temporary, it would still be limited by the people who aren't interested at any price.

sheet abundant grandiose fanatical cagey smile six alive jellyfish file *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

I wish he would step down at this point. I remember him joking about MEI vs DEI, and thought he stood for competence. Aligning with Trump and his cabinet of clowns, I struggle to trust the guy's rationality. I don't think he is being intentionally duplicitous. I believe he got so emotional that he lost himself or was/is mentally ill.

...but that is a demand problem then.

The robots have potential!

As much as I wish I could say I will never buy a Tesla ever again, the FSD is the only thing that would make that very hard. Since 2019 the software has gotten insanely better and reliable.

Another major limiting factor is the roads need to be perfect. Lane markings, visible signs, etc....

> After DOGE, Republicans even agree he's a douche. Do Republicans think this, though? All the conservatives I know love him.

LOL. I push a button in my driveway and 250 miles later, I haven't touched the wheel or pedals. FSD V13. What Kia has this ability?

FSD is mindblowing. I push a button in my driveway, and 250 miles later, I arrive without every touching the wheel or pedals.

FSD V13 is mind-blowing. I did a 500-mile round trip. FSD handled cities, construction zones, and highways perfectly.

You can only destabilise a weak market. Nothing is stopping the US, EU from both forcing and subsidising their companies to make and develop better EV’s. Both have allowed lobbying to weigh down and weaken EV efforts for short term profits. And now we see serious Chinese competitors and now they’re scared. Could have seen this coming 20 years ago..

Yeah yeah, in 5 years we can compare notes Mr story stick.

>Almost all traffic is due to humans driving poorly enough that they have to brake hard 1. Sounds hyperbolic. You address this point later, but infrastructure has certain limits. Shove a thousand FSD cars through a single-lane roundabout and you'll have traffic. FSD can't fix too many cars on the road than what it can handle, which is typically what traffic is (i.e., rush hour or any other reason for lots of cars on a road). 2. FSD has been training largely on human behavior to be a human-like driver, not to be a traffic-reducing robot.

I'll never buy a Tesla while he's there and I doubt I'm the only one who feels that way.

Good, stay there and do your job.

Ministry of Truth.

> I live in metro PHX which surely has the widest Waymo service map by far. I’m not so sure about that. Waymo is now recently expanding to cover San Jose and all of the South Bay. They already serve all the way up the San Francisco peninsula and all of San Francisco. It would take me like an hour and a half to drive from one end of that service area to the other, on a highway. Not “portions” of an urban area - I’m talking the entire city limits of multiple cities. Millions of people live in just this one service area. > But Waymoing everywhere a car can drive like Tesla is trying to do with FSD ain’t happening any year soon. I agree, FSD will get to that state before Waymo does. Just saying that the current Waymo service areas aren’t just tiny little areas anymore. They’re now covering the entirety of many adjacent cities and counties.

I on the other hand think he's awesome and just ordered a new model X.

Infrastructure has limits, but those limits are often an extraordinary amount higher than their current utilization, if you assume perfect driving. Especially if you're talking about rush hour on a highway. FSD is not today and likely will never in our lifetimes be perfect, but implementing this strategy is very human. I don't know exactly what inputs they have to their model, but if they really intend to be human-like, there should be inputs about safe following distance. How many seconds behind. That's the way humans think about it. To counter traffic, you simply need to follow somewhere between 5 and 10 seconds behind instead of 3.

Model Y junipers are selling like hot cakes. Dont believe me? Check peoples order numbers from a month ago and compare them with today.

Leased and bought one in two months. Had friends replaced theirs since the deals are good now.

Once Trump tells them to hate him they will.

Not disagreeing. But what SUV EV would you recommend under $50k? We’re coming off a Tesla Model Y lease next year, and although we’re happy with the car we’re not happy with the company’s direction.

Lucid has better efficiency, range, charging, materials, build quality, and access to the supercharger network. Tesla is also still stuck on 400V outside of the cybertruck.

Glad you mentioned it's just your opinion cause there definitely are good choices out there. Especially in terms of price/perf and value. And the supercharger network being opened up (mostly) has been one of the biggest benefits for other manufacturers

My last road trip I ran into one of those VW Van EVs at a V2 supercharger. Only Tesla's can charge at the old 150kw V2s but her car nav routed her to it. She even showed me her screen. She also had no adapter anyway. Luckily she barely had enoungh range to make it to a magic dock supercharger station ~20mi away.

Fucking leave. This is embarrassing and there is a concern with demand. The brand is tarnished as long as he is at the company. I wish it was easy to financially move to another car, but at least I know what not to get next time we're in the market

Flatlined? It's going down and has been for a while.

If he puts himself on stage to save the brand after his actions since January, I don't think it will be the positive glowing response it has from the Tesla faithful in the past. Heck even back then his crazy over promising almost turned me off from the brand altogether. I get if he wants to keep his stake in the company, but it's time for a new CEO.

Are you the new wave that hated EVs until Musk gave you political butterflies? 😂

Because it fucking sucks. It is really neat novelty technology, but it's actual hot garbage to use it everywhere. It's got some strong spots, but FSD is going to get me shot for its actions. No thanks.

***SIGH***

This sucks, I was planning on upgrading to a Model X Plaid in less than a year......I'm not dealing with this guy anymore, maybe its time for something else? I dunno.

I can’t name a single competitor. You underestimate brand recognition. People still call out Tesla’s when they see them in the wild. I know you want it to be true but Reddit is not indicative of the real world.

You can’t try to use logic and facts with these people. They’re larpers.

Hehe yep and I'll only buy a Tesla for the next five.

Full year sales shows a better picture then one quarter when one of the cars was about to release a refresh. “The best-selling cars in 2024 included the Tesla Model Y, which topped sales with over 1.09 million units, followed closely by the Toyota Corolla and the Toyota RAV4”

Model Y test drive on Sunday. First time driving a Tesla. Super excited.

Doesn’t Tesla feed those companies? Isn’t it the other way around ? Elon damaging Tesla’s brand, perhaps irreparably, will affect SpaceX’s capital soon enough.

Keep imagining…

Then you shouldn’t be commenting in a thread about FSD. Autopilot is little more than cruise control, it has nothing to do with FSD.

I'm imagining trying to drive another car that doesn't have the capabilities of FSD... It's not pleasant

There is a long list of features added to Tesla's every year, all year models. Does Ford do this for previous year models or do they just lock them in stagnant? Also curious how much efficiency has increased via software updates? That's a big one there. Also, free ford service mode + open service manuals are not in existence. It's in the list above. There are reasons to go Tesla over Ford, but the F150 can be had at a nice price in comparison to the cybertruck, but it won't be as nice inside at that price point.

read the article bro, it was a typo by the journalist not a quote

Mostly it’s just xAI. They provide a lot of the FSD LLM and tech. Elon said, FSD doesn’t happen without him. They lose access to the AI.

If a human can handle all that with his single pair of eyes, a good enough IA will be able to handle it with four pair of eyes. It really comes down to logic that the limitation is on the IA available, not on the car needing LIDAR or whatever hardware most people feel like is needed

I’m not sure current shareholders can accurately be described as not living in a bubble…

Except you have alternatives.

EV is implied, but yes should've been clarified by the OP

That's the joke

You're in for a treat, I have an older model S and it was crazy to me how many features they have added over the years, unlike any car you have ever seen, the acceleration will blow you away.

More lies.

At this point, like every point previously.

Reddit wants Elon gone. Now I’m positive him staying on will be great. Nice.

Doh!

Ford may be unique then. I recently drove the most expensive Genesis EV on the market and its one pedal driving mode is simply awful. It's very poorly tuned and turns itself off every drive and every time you back up. The latter is a design decision I consider to be a major safety issue. There's also a noticeable delay between taking my foot entirely off the accelerator and the vehicle beginning to slow. If my first one pedal driving experience was on a Hyundai / Kia / Genesis, I'd never want to use it again. They might as well not have the feature at all. ETA: My MYLR has blended braking.

Do you have an older car?

I personally have had the complete opposite experience when I used FSD on my tesla. I had to constantly intervene for it to avoid merging cars and to change lanes to make an upcoming exit. It has a lot of trouble filtering with dense traffic around it. And it completely falls apart in the city for me. For basic autopilot settings its was quite good. Held the lane and stayed on the highway and handled stop and go traffic well. The Kia can handle that level of self drive equally well. Actually better as it will automatically lane change as part of the included package with the car, and not a 10k upgrade.

This can't be V13 on HW4. This version has received rave reviews and I attest it does none of the things you describe. Maybe an older version but not V13.

I feel bad for them because they are sold that you can charge anywhere because the sales man just wants to get the sale. Then they realize half the chargers are broken and they can't use most of the tesla network. 5 years of owning a Tesla and I have only had the chargers broken once.

Elon has a best friend? Let alone A friend?

My horse has better FSD.

And what value does FSD have without a car company.? It’s a mutual relationship at best. Probably tilted in Tesla’s favour as there are plenty of AI companies that would *love* to work with them. And very few car companies that would like to work with Elon. …that’s an understatement. Worst case it all goes pear shaped and Tesla, which is still an incredibly valuable car company, with its staff and production facilities, gets bought by, let’s say Apple, and Elon can go and do whatever it is that he does.

FSD will probably be faster though. Or try setting the FSD max speed to 35mph and see if it does better for you.

I actually prefer the way Chevy handed it on the Bolt. Put it in D and you get traditional non-OPD like an ICE automatic. Put it in L and you get OPD. You have to choose every time, but it is not a chore since it's just how far you move the lever. \> My MYLR has blended braking. I believe the new MY is the only Tesla with any blended braking, that was a very recent change. It's a nice improvement for the people who do not like OPD.

Ford adds features, but not at anywhere near the pace or variety as Tesla. But the first models years have been getting things like BlueCruise updates to the latest version. Ford is even more weird than Tesla about their release staggering, who gets it and who does not, and when ... but they do get it out eventually. \> it won't be as nice inside at that price point. This is obviously a subjective opinion, but I don't think the CT really has a claim to a nicer interior than an F150 at any trim level (especially the Lightning, which does not truly have a base model equivalent to the F150 XL). I much prefer the design and materials quality of my Lightning, as well as the sound isolation. In my experience the CT is much like the Model 3 -- spartan, mid-grade materials, you bought the car for tech and performance not comfort. I knew what I was getting into when I got my first Model 3, I am not complaining. \> how much efficiency has increased via software updates Nothing proven as far as I am aware. You get some speculation of course, but I have seen no objective data suggesting improvements to efficiency. Pickups like the Lightning and CT get pretty atrocious mileage because of physics, I don't think there is going to be any magic from squeezing out a few more percent of motor efficiency or anything like that.

For supposedly being a smart guy he sure is dumb, there is a demand issue you Muppet. It isn't just tesla on top anymore, there are definitely better options now

It’s just not going to happen which is a bummer. He’s also a 13% shareholder so he still has significant influence. But yes. Best case is he divests, they put someone in that knows how to run it, stock dips for a year like when Steve Jobs died. Once people see that Elon has structured and built a company bigger than just him it will be fine.

One market: literally all of Europe 🌍

Went back to Cali and honestly most drivers on the road are driving a Tesla...they ain't in trouble..y'all just complain too much.

God Bless Elon Musk

But if Tesla hadn't done that, it wouldn't necessarily have been the market leader for long, even in the United States. In Northern Europe, where Tesla never became the largest charging operator, it has almost no market share because it's not better than the others. It has no competitive advantages. Tesla's strength in chargers was the same as in cars, the first standardized, easily replicable product that is made without variations so much that it is profitable, even if the product is not the best. The downside of that strength is that you always have to be the biggest and the first to win the market, right away if you're not the biggest you start to lose market share fast.

And I think that’s only because they don’t know how capable it truly is. I’ve converted 6 different people to buying teslas simply by them being in my car and asking me about fsd and then me using it and them being blown away. They see other driver assistance and lane keep and can’t fathom how much better teslas can be so they assume it’s the same or maybe 10% better or something. I like driving myself but for traffic and for longer highway cruises, I arrive so much more fresh to my destination with even autopilot, let alone fsd. I wouldn’t buy another vehicle that doesn’t at least have autopilot like capabilities to the level of Tesla. Maybe in 4-5 years when I’m looking at another car, another player will catch up.

Teslas long term money maker isn’t vehicles, it’s battery storage and charging and they know that.

Rivian’s is a let down. We cancelled ours

Sleeping while you drive will probably never be allowed in this lifetime. You’ll probably need to be in a state where you’re able to take control from a safety standpoint.

That's where you're wrong.

I mean it could just be that different people have different experiences? Like when I drive out of my street, Tesla constantly thinks I'm about to crash into the parallel parked cars. Never had a problem outside that street, but it just breaks Tesla for some reason

Battery storage and charging are both commodities, especially with NACS as a standard. This is a fairy tale.

It could prove to be helpful if car sales continue to go down the toilet. Some folks that are sensitive to rolling around with a car so tightly attached to Elon, are perfectly fine to use their chargers since that's not something they have to disclose to the rest of the world everywhere they go. Tesla superchargers are convenient and I've found the pricing competitive (non-Tesla driver).

Problem solved, I guess.

No it was because Tesla wanted that government charger build-out cash, and they wouldn't have qualified otherwise.

Thank God.

>and like it or not… the general public doesn’t care about Full Self Driving enough yet to make that a major factor in their purchase. Like it or not, Tesla's future and stock price is very heavily dependent on the success of FSD.

Is there anything else that could explain the relative weakness of model Y and 3 sales in the most recent quarter?

You could get a pre-owned a lot cheaper than new

Meh, I have driven every EV on the market available today, no one comes close imo.

The robo taxi is where it's at. If Tesla could provide app hailed cabs that charge $.30 per mile or so, I would not have to own a car, it would be magical. I hope Tesla focuses more and more on robo taxis.

Toyota Corolla is trash. Rolling trash buckets with hard plastic that scratches if you look at it hard, shoddy workmanship throughout and crappy build quality and a terrible driving experience.

Love my M3 and MY, but next car won’t be a Tesla if he’s still hanging around. He needs to go.

Very cool!

Until you can take a nap, the marketability of "full self driving" is very limited. It is more stressful to many people watching a car to see if it will do something crazy than it is to just drive it.

Musk is too rich for Trump to ever do that.

He can be as rich as he wants, it will not compete against the influence of trump. Trump used him and how he’ll be the scapegoat of his administration.

Meh. I dont let politics affect my consumer habits. If i did, i probably would never buy anything remotely tech related.

>Nothing is stopping the US, EU from both forcing and subsidising their companies to make and develop better EV’s A lot is stopping EU from doing it. They have quite a lot of rules stopping subsides. Since if they didn't the rich countries would give a lot of subsides that just destroyed the internal market.

All the shareholder demand for him to return to the office was misguided. The guys a mentally unwell drug addict with too many irons in the fire even before doge. I'm glad I sold my shares because the only thing that's going to save Tesla is a change of leadership.