FSD Supervised ride-hailing service is live for an early set of employees in Austin & San Francisco Bay Area.

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Hope those employees getting paid extra. Personally after using fsd on my own 2023model3… I am not convinced yet.

I have fed beta and use it everywhere. Only small issues and always feel safe.

Well, there's a safety driver, so you should wish that the driver is paid decently as an employee

Looking forward to hearing more about Mission Control and Remote Asst. Ops.

Supervised ride hailing = Uber.

HW3 isn’t as good as HW4

So Waymo, 2017.

Even HW4 makes stupid mistakes. Once per week I get a situation where car wants to turn into the opposite lane traffic

Small issues that require someone else to fix are major annoyances. Not sure that’s a selling point.

Waymo is ahead, but technology like self driving gets commodified as it improves every year. If the bet around vision is correct, Tesla can scale 100x Waymo in a single year due to having so many cars on the road. I wouldn't look at the race so linearly. Tesla's strategy is high risk, high reward.

Tesla: We've completed over 1.5k trips & 15k miles of driving (supervised, employees only). Waymo: We served over 4 million **fully autonomous rides this year alone**, bringing us to over 5 million rides total. With the Waymo Driver at the wheel, riders enjoyed over 1 million hours in their own trusted space to make the most of their time. *This is positive and we all have to start somewhere but let’s not brag too much about baby steps.*

Well, yeah, Tesla only just started doing it…

Cool. They are getting started. I had my first couple of rides in Waymo a couple of weeks ago. I wonder how this will unfold in the early stages.

The approach is really different between Tesla and Waymo so that’s not a great comparison. I wouldn’t trust Tesla right now even though I like FSD it doesn’t feel ready to be unsupervised. What they’re trying to do is way less constrained than Waymo though

Minus the distracted driving.

Waymo has less than 1,000 vehicles in a handful of cities. Waymo is unprofitable which is why it’s expanding at a snails pace. Tesla CyberCab is like a tsunami headed for Waymo. I have no idea what Waymo can do, they don’t build their own cars. Without life support from Google, Waymo is dead in the water.

Minus AI and with actual AI

So the car is already on its way to you before you even select a destination?

That’s cause you have a legacy FSD system

Waymo is supervised from a remote operations center. Tesla will have the same setup. It’s a non issue, which is why they’re building the manufacturing line for CyberCab now.

…and had promised this in 20 fucking 18 😂

Mine does this on HW3. Sad but not surprised this happens on HW4

Waymo currently needs to scale 6400x to match Uber in North America alone.

The high risk being, the failure of pure vision neural networks causing an accident resulting in severe bodily injury or death. So you have to weigh the “high reward” against the near certainty of six to seven figure personal injury lawsuits.

My dad's been using it on his HW4 Model 3 and reports to me that it subjectively feels safer and better than probably 90% of Uber/Lyft drivers he's been in. So if you'll gladly take Uber/Lyft without hesitation, you'll be fine with it.

Surely not every single waymo is being actively monitored at all times like a vehicle with a human safety driver. My impression was that there's a limited cadre who can remotely access and pilot the vehicles if need be, but are essentially on call and not overseeing individual cars for the full length of their ride. That's why the rider has to call in through the UI.

Waymo operators can’t actually directly control the car. They can only initiate commands like pull over safely.

Waymo is not supervised like FSD (Supervised) is supervised. Waymo doesn't drive their cars remotely or have drivers immediately take over.

No, it means Waymo but you have to be an employee, signed the won’t-sue forms, and have to carry another employee with you. Ironically, Waymo has already been covering the San Francisco and Austin areas.

Turn into opposite lane traffic? That’s pretty bad. So if his robotaxi does this, does Eloon sue the other driver or the passengers? (He has a few months to decide their policy.)

not sure I'd want to ride in a driverless car without lidar.

Yep, that’s the same model for Tesla FSD as well. The car notifies remote ops when it needs to be unstuck. Based on disengagement data, Tesla knows exactly how much remote ops is needed.

I’m going to assume Tesla will be more advanced operations software than Waymo given that they are building the vehicle from the ground up, not bolting on self driving to a manually driven platform.

Waymo cars notify ops to perform manual operations just like Tesla will. The extent of the manual ops possible is more a question of how good the software and platform is.

Waymo One vehicles are fully autonomous. That means that on most occasions, no one is in the driver’s seat when you ride with them. On rare occasions there are monitors, mostly to measure and observe.

We have no idea if this is the case because **they aren’t available to the public**. That’s just a guess.

I’m sure if Waymo really wanted to support this if they wanted to, but the need for it probably isn’t worth the effort. Plus it’s not scalable at the level Waymo is currently operating. Edit: also not against FSD at all, definitely hoping for a successful launch of FSD unsupervised. I’m just a big fan of Waymo being a trusted tester since the beginning in Phoenix.

Have had this happen twice over the past year. Infrequent but scary. It will start turning left on a red light despite the light not changing. It seems to react to cars in other lanes moving, not sure why it ignores the light though

Also does not recognize some very crucial signs like “no u-turn” and will still try to enforce u-turn where it should not

It feels safer because he knows he can take over at anytime. Control adds a lot to feelings of safety whether it’s safer or not. Fear of driving is almost non existent compared to air travel yet we all know which is verifiably safer. No offense to your dad.

HW4 is night and day compared to HW3.

I know, but calling it Uber is funnier, despite Uber being a step up from what they are offering.

That is the nature of software driven design. It is a convenience!

Guess i will find out in like 5 years. No plans to upgrade my 2023 model 3 anytime soon. :(

Thats weird, after using FSDv12.6.4 on my 2023 Model 3 I am ABSOLUTELY convinced. I basically don't even drive anymore, it does 99.9% of my driving for me. Never gonna buy a car that can't drive itself

Love to see a video of the cars pulling up completely empty like what Waymo is doing. Is there one somewhere?

Waymo doesn't have to do anything. Camera fsd is not going to work reliably.

It certainly has gotten much better. My twenty plus mile ride on highway 92 from East of 575 to West of 75 just now was adventure free with the only real issue of the car ignoring the 55mph speed limit sign and insisting it was only a 45mph zone; it did this for two signs in a row so I adjusted the speed up. This is a four lane sometimes divided road with speeds from 35-55 and assholes out the wazoo who just love to pull out from shopping centers as you pass by. I do wish it would get out of the left lane when there is space in the adjacent lane when a car is sitting on your tail. FSD drives like the teenager with both dad and mom in the car and other drivers don't appreciate the caution. I still think one of the biggest issues FSD will face is the impatient asshole drivers who might road rage when behind one.

Mine a couple of days ago for some reason decided to take a left with a red arrow. Luckily I was able to catch it in time. This is the second time it has done this in the last month. The other one was NOT at the same intersection. But my biggest issue is actually less than a mile from my home. It can't handle the left off my street on to the main subdivision drag. It is divided and there is a tall berm inbetween. The two lanes get close near my house as I am close to the front of the neighborhood. FSD just can't do what humans do and go across the first lane and wait in a small area to see for the second to clear. The tall berm makes it so you can't see to do both lanes at the same time.

Same and I'm on a 2018. Waiting and hoping for FSD transfer to open up for the Model Y. There is no going back.

You say that and somehow 95% of my driving according to the Tesla app is FSD. The rest of the 5% is getting in and out of parking spots and garages - things that Waymo doesn’t support anyways. So yea FSD combined with remote operations, like Waymo, is ready and that’s why Tesla is building assembly lines for CyberCab as we speak.

Waymo does support parking garages, they park their SF vehicles in a few around the city and you can see them going in and out frequently. That said, they are probably pre-mapped. FSD doesn’t support the “pull over by destination to pick people up or let people out” that Waymo does. Pickup and drop off are fairly challenging problems in cities, so I’m curious to see how Tesla plans to handle that. Driving for driving, they might be pretty comparable, but there’s a lot of extra variables for rideshare

Sure Tesla has so many cars on the road, but how many of them are able to actually turn in a RoboTaxi? And of those, how many owners would be willing to send their car out for random people to use? I know I would never do that.

It did dramatically improve over last 3 months. Hw3

> If the bet around vision is correct, Tesla can scale 100x Waymo in a single year due to having so many cars on the road. Dev isn't constrained by input data.

2019 m3 fam represent! 92k miles.  No plans to upgrade. FSD still lane changing for no reason, but had been way better last 3 months overall.  A bigger SUV or van would tempt me. Only issues I’ve had are control arms and some plastic door hinge part that started creaking.

Most recent FSD trial I had on my 2024 model 3 was REALLY good. Like, I don’t let anyone drive me around, not even my own family, and even I was comfortable with that build.

What you seem to be missing is that Waymo can license their technology to any vehicle manufacturers they want.

What you seem to be missing is that Waymo can license their technology to any vehicle manufacturers they want.

Supervised…? I thought it was supposed to be unsupervised

But also, Tesla has been able to make money selling FSD for the past 8 or so years in large sums or subscription. So in a sense, they have mitigated their risk significantly.

Not to derail the post.. but yeah... would love if tesla had a traditional SUV in th eline up.

Im a peasant with a late 2023 Model 3 w Ryzen. :( Jokes aside..... even if i had HW4.... i wouldnt buy full FSD and even now, i buy a month if i go on a long trip. So i dont feel too bad HW3 w Ryzen is not as good as HW4... but i would be lying if i say it didnt sting a little. lol

Take a look at Turo and you’ll see how many people are willing to rent out their cars.

Put a bikerack on the hitch and tell me how it does. Or snow. Or my situation today, dust from a dirt road.

Apparently the first taxis are going to be the new model Y. And at the speeds that we are talking about here, Tesla can churn out new model Ys at fairly high rates. Waymo is about 700 cars. If they can get it to work, 700 new model Ys diverted from customer sells is not a lot.

To be fair. Waymo 2022. Tesla is only 3 years behind.

You only think of individual people. If companies see profit, they will do it.

Like Hertz?

Glad to see them just moving on with new projects touting FSD while the people that paid for FSD only 2 years ago are left with a supervised system and no news on when we will ever be upgraded.

Interesting. I guess they want the car getting to you as fast as possible

They literally just released a video of it ‘pulling over’ to pickup. I guess you can check that of your short list https://x.com/tesla_ai/status/1915080322862944336 The writing is on the wall and Waymo is woefully unprepared.

The best part about having this in San Francisco is that there is no driver to be robbed

Compared to Waymo, I agree Tesla seems far behind, but someone on the AV subreddit says Waymo only drives high confidence roads with their geofencing. Since Tesla is rolling it out city by city they are basically doing the same. Well with HW3 it works pretty good, but if you force the car to drive those high confidence roads and utilize our disengagements as a marker on what roads not to drive, then I see this problem basically solved. Who knew the cheat to all this is just excluding odd roads and unprotect left turns and if they are using our disengagements then the mapping is already done.

This is just the Boston-based "Uey" feature.

Learn first. THEN post:-)

The car is literally in a parking lot in that video. Waymo’s ability to do pickups/dropoffs on busy SF streets is the thing I’m thinking of, where you have to briefly block traffic in a safe way.

People are doing Uber in their cars, so..... And the answer to the number is millions. I couldn't find the figure, but if its less than a million now, it'll be well over by the end of the year.

That's certainly not the case right now. Stop talking about what might be. FSD was supposed to be fully unsupervised 4 years ago. Waymo is fully unsupervised right now. Yes, the Waymo can request help from an Ops center, but there is not an individual person 24/7 monitoring each car.

Yup. I’m about to just go buy a used Odyssey and keep my M3 for commutes and whatnot.  Can’t wait around for Tesla to make bigger models, and if they do I’m sure will cost a boatload at first.

Especially since their sales are crashing anyway, two birds with one stone (and probably a pedestrian or two as well)

hahahah oh man this is so much garbage - you are foolish

That’s supposed to come out in Austin in June. This is testing leading up to that.

Best comment

Not happenin’. Have you used FSD lately? 10%+ fail rate in the city is a non-starter.

It is exactly how it works right now in their testing program - https://x.com/tesla_ai/status/1915080322862944336

You remind of the Redditors laughing about landing rockets right up to the moment they actually landed. Even with Tesla building factories and doing live testing - you still can’t see what’s coming.

Huge difference.. you obviously won’t be satisfied until you’re sitting in a CyberCab going somewhere while pouting that you didn’t buy more shares while they were cheap. But let’s be real, you’ll forget about this and latch on to the next ambitious goal Tesla sets for itself to whine about.

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Yeah, and? There is a driver in that video.

That’s how testing works.. Waymo did the same thing in preparation for moving full supervision to remote operations.

Eh not really, I’ll gladly believe it when I see it and I think it’s a great idea in concept. I also said that the driving is comparable between the two, but FSD wasn’t engineered for the difficult parts of a ride hailing service. That’s the part I want more than one 30 second promotional video about. Also, what’s your point with saying I won’t be satisfied until I experience the Cybercab? I think that’s actually a very valid statement. I’ve spent a lot of time in Waymos and a reasonable amount of time with FSD, so I’m pretty aware of the limitations of both platforms. I’d like either an unbiased third party source giving details on the Tesla rideshare, or to experience it myself, before saying that Tesla is as good. If you’re claiming that it’s this close to ready, then I should be able to experience it soon, right? E: actually more specifically, if the Tesla ride hailing service requires you to find a parking lot or somewhere explicitly very safe to begin and end your journey, that’s going to be a non-starter for most city riders. Waymo does a really really good job of knowing when to break the law slightly to make a cab service effective (ex. going into the oncoming lane to go around a stopped car, stopping in the middle of the street to let passengers in/out, plus other behaviors that human uber drivers gladly do), and FSD is not there yet afaik. I’d be very happy to watch a video disproving me though

I've taken Waymo multiple times in 4 different cities. I've owned multiple Teslas with FSD. Waymo is so far ahead it is laughable to even compare the two. Have you tried Waymo? If you're just here to ride Elon's nuts be my guest, but don't gaslight everyone.

I've taken Waymo multiple times in 4 different cities. I've owned multiple Teslas with FSD. Waymo is so far ahead it is laughable to even compare the two. Have you tried Waymo? If you're just here to ride Elon's nuts be my guest, but don't gaslight everyone.

I would pay premium for this if it means I never had to get in a horrible, scary Uber driver’s car ever again. The unsupervised version, that is.

No, that’s not it. He just means that his observations of the car’s driving without intervention is better than 90% of his observations of Uber/Lyft drivers. He nitpicks the driving behaviors of Uber/Lyft drivers all the time (and nitpicks my driving too lol. He’s definitely a backseat driver)

no it’s constrained by scalability of the platform

Wow, this sub has been moderated into the ground

Why are they not building a practical cab that seats more than two, isn't a coupe that's hard to get in and out of, and isn't designed with the sensors in the optimal places to see well?

“Supervised” meaning a guy in India is driving you?

The different approach isn't so different now, as Musk admits that Geofencing is actually a requirement.

There is, but it's a man in a Model Y suit

Tesla has BILLIONS of supervised autonomous road miles already, so stop pretending like waymo is ahead lol. This small roll out is more to test the process of how the app and experience will work.

Yea I have used Waymo, usually after traveling 50 miles with FSD between cities, Waymo is good for the little intercity trips when I don’t want to worry about parking, and then FSD takes me home. Really not much different between Tesla and Waymo driving in the cities themselves. Difference is Tesla works everywhere.

Does this feel like the same song playing for the last eight years?

No reason why it wouldn't. Not like the software is going to see your destination and be like "oh hell no, not that neighborhood at this hour"

Nothing is supposed. Waymo is supposed to solve the robotaxi issue, but they can only run a handful cities now

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What if it's outside the geofenced area

turtle

Waymo doesn't remotely drive. https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/s/CDNVTxp32U

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I didn’t say it did. I said manual operations.

straight to jail

I guess they'll need to make sure there's a jail inside the geofenced area

I’ve used both and HW4 is a big leap but I don’t really trust it to not have a safety driver. It’ll still occasionally make mistakes due to either bad map/nav data or it’ll just not see things that it’s not used to seeing. It seems particularly bad at not running into wild birds for example. I live in Florida so we have some pretty crazy birds here over the winter and the two times the car almost hit something with FSD 13 were both birds. One was a gray sandhill crane whose plumage was very similar in color to the asphalt on the road, and the other was a big hawk that decided to fly super slow right in front of the windshield. The car completely ignored both of these birds. I get that the training data set probably just doesn’t have a lot of birds but having a huge hawk hit your windshield at 65mph isn’t great 😂

omg, have your upvote.

I started laughing when they showed there was a safety driver. They clearly tried to obscure it in the initial shots but just had to give up with the interior shots. I get this is "safety testing" but they didn't provide any real data on this series or specifications which HW set or FSD version is being run. 1,500 trips at 15K miles averages 10 miles per trip. That's not nothing, but it could also be 1 mile of streets with 9 miles of freeway, which would skew the data positively like crazy. They mentioned remote takeover being an option to "unstuck" the car too. I'm surprised it wasn't shown in this.

Well it’s going to be cheaper than Uber so win for you

So basically two years behind Waymo. GTFOH.

This really depends on how you look at it. I’d agrue selling a product you may never be able to deliver is increasing risk significantly.

My Waymo rides have been way nicer than my Uber rides in SF. They tend to be slower end to end though. They follow the law much more closely while driving and when selecting pickup/drop off spots. This usually results in a slower trip.

Also I feel like Tesla live in a Texas/California bubble. Even if they have robotaxis roaming the streets of a US city, it’ll take decades to properly scale it globally. Will they even survive that long unless they actually focus on producing better cars? I’ve no idea. Seems like a regulatory nightmare. I live in Bangkok and it won’t be here for 20 years I imagine due to dangers on our roads, so Tesla will just have to exit our market in the meantime because BYD are already destroying them here.

So why haven’t they?

Good point. I imagine it won't need to know your end destination long-term, but while it's geofenced, I think you're right and they would need to know where you're going beforehand.

Geofencing will always be a requirement because it’s not like this is ever going to be a feature they can launch globally. It will require regulatory approval in every single country, state, county and sometimes down to city level. I do wonder why anyone ever thought it would be different. This is a monumental task and I’m surprised Tesla are going all in so early and letting their product line rot.

I used it 4 hours ago and it wasn't nearly that high.

as long as it's legal it'll go there, if it's across a state line it might have to stop you or mention a transfer or surcharge or something. Tesla isn't geofencing by the street level. They are starting in a city and it's just going to say the car has x miles range anything further requires stopping for a charge (or maybe just can't be done).

What are you basing 10% fail rate on? Has that been published somewhere? I use it everyday, as does my wife, and neither one of us has had to critically intervene in months. Almost all interventions at this point are due to us preferring it be in a different lane.

Waymo took 5 years to start hailing unsupervised rides. Tesla could be ready in 6 months. So potentially 3 years behind. Also if the price is lower than Uber, then they will be able to achieve what Waymo couldn’t.

Meanwhile I have around 20k miles clocked in FSD and I’ve never had this happen before.

FSD is NOT ready for prime time.

Maybe it’s just worse outside US/ west coast ?

Im sure it’s a requirement if they want any shot in operating autonomous vehicles to this degree.  They need a license to operate and need to be able to control risk for insurance, so geofencing is probably the only way to achieve that right now. From a legal perspective, I don’t think the logistics of operating a fleet have actually been worked out yet. The law is going to be the last major hurdle to enabling L4+ nationwide/globally.

It keeps you trapped in the car to serve out your sentence, no external jail needed.

Waymo started unsupervised rides in 2020. So not only is it supervised. Its geofenced and with teleops. Two of the things Tesla fans said wasn't "self driving" if you do.

Except Uber had to build their platform from scratch and Tesla can reuse a lot of their app and infrastructure.

Vehicle integration is no small thing

It doesn’t handle lanes ending well, or backups at exits. Those are the main flaws.

It is different because Waymo retrofits a small amount of cars with expensive sensors.

Easy enough for it to say "nope, can't do that", and if you cancel the entire thing, the car just goes and does something else.

What’s the business model of the ride-hailing service? Does Tesla take a cut of each ride? And do riders use a Tesla app to call for a ride? Curious if the robotaxi play is meant to drive more car sales or be a significant service revenue stream on its own.

Haven’t had to intervene months? Bull fucking shit. I had the trials and had to intervene what, at least once every 30 minutes? Completely unusable

Geofencing. Ring any bells? It's possible to have higher quality map data in a certain area.

I know, it was a rhetorical question haha. I think what Waymo has done is fantastic, but I struggle to understand how they can scale their solution from a VEHICLE standpoint. It seems Jaguar sold around 33,000 vehicles worldwide in 2024 or roughly what Tesla can produce out of Texas in 6 weeks. IF Robotaxi works as intended (still a big IF, IMO) and isn’t outlawed or massively restricted (like Uber is in some jurisdictions) there will need to be millions produced and deployed. I’m not saying Waymo couldn’t find another vehicle manufacturer who can crank that out, but they certainly aren’t going to get the numbers needed with Jaguar.

What geo fence? This isnt waymo

Its fsd supervised. Its rideshare. This is not what tesla it would be. Tesla said it would be fsd unsupervised.

More like 0.01%

The initial launch of unsupervised will be restricted to a limited area.

Lol, this got a good chuckle out of me. It does kinda sound like something Musk would say.

This is the employee-only early access test. Way are you acting like it's already failed?

> Waymo is so far ahead it is laughable to even compare the two. How does Waymo do in western Kansas?

> Why are they not building a practical cab that seats more than two Because the majority of ride share users are less than 3 people, so for efficiency's sake there's no reason to have bigger vehicles rolling around. The goal isn't to replace 100% of taxis, there will still be larger vehicles around.

> I had the trials Meaning you used it for.. a month? How long ago? > Completely unusable LOL. You had to do something once every 30 minutes and it's unusable? Wow.

Exactly. I'm not sure why people don't grasp that choosing a single area to focus on for "the next step" would allow for significantly more optimized mapping/code/etc.

They did an absolutely terrible job integrating EVs into their portfolio. It's like they didn't talk to a single person who actually owned an EV.

> actually focus on producing better cars Huh???

Why does everyone think this going live was going to be everything from day 1? Safety and prudence demands a roll out slowing removing restrictions.

So it can't function in 100% of situations? I'm shocked.

It seems like there are two parallel activities. One is getting the main line of HW4 FSD better to increase subscribers. The other is to do market by market branches for unsupervised/ Robotaxi activity. At some point those branches will need to merge and maybe diverge again.

This is true of almost all car journeys, and yet 99% of cars seat four or more. The design is completely impractical for at least the three reasons I cited, probably more.

Expensive sensors that ensure safe travel. A single fatality ended both Uber's cybercab and Cruise.

yeah, the city limits of whatever city it opens in.

Right, so what happens when the car pulls up as you enter a destination outside of those city limits?

> a practical cab that seats more than two It's a taxi. Don't request this taxi service if you have more than 2 people. This is one offering from the company, who has other vehicles that will be in the ride sharing service. Not to mention, bigger vehicles cost more and are less efficient. Bigger (heavier) vehicles do more damage to the roads. Bigger vehicles will have worse maneuverability (the cybercab is about a foot narrower and a foot shorter than the Model 3, so it should be much more maneuverable). From a cost perspective, if you could have three vehicles that seat two people or two vehicles that seat five people, which is going to be a better choice for someone with a fleet of cabs and for efficiency of the service? As I already said, these are just one offering of vehicles that will ultimately be available in the ride-hailing service - Tesla's other models will be available. > isn't a coupe that's hard to get in and out of I do not believe it is going to be as hard to get into as you think. The seats are fairly flat with minimal bolstering, so you aren't dropping down into a well. And the door opening is very large giving plenty of room for feet/legs to move laterally into/out of the vehicle, with a very low door sill compared to the seat cushion height. The seat height above ground appears to be no different than the office chair I'm sitting in currently. > and isn't designed with the sensors in the optimal places to see well? You know better than Tesla engineers at this point about where the optimal sensor locations are? Maybe you should write them a letter, I'm sure they're all just salivating at the thought of an unknown internet user coming in and saving the day by telling them they put their sensors in the wrong place.

On a small pilot like this it doesn’t make sense for Tesla to optimize robot car positioning yet. They’re just trying to see what problems their robots encounter in there wild.

Licensing requires the geofencing.

It needs a destination before it starts driving and can decline at the point the destination is given.

Waymo started *removing* safety drivers in 2017. Monitor how long it takes Tesla to do the same and what tolerance they have for accidents and/or deaths.

Correct. Waymo started their testing in 2009. They started *removing* safety drivers in 2017. The invention of Transformers was published in 2018 (leading to the Wow! LLMs/AIs today). Waymo vehicles and autonomous software also has data from a *much* better sensor suite. So, investors should assume that Tesla, in 2025, is where Waymo was in 2009? (albeit, Tesla, and everyone else, had access to much better CPUs/GPUs pre-tariff war). Can Tesla catch up? The magic 8 ball says … Cannot predict now.

Right, so now we're back to the first comment. Is software going to see your destination and be like "oh hell no, not that neighborhood at this hour" and leave?

> Why are they not building a practical cab that seats more than two The cab Tesla showed off is just a repurposed Model 2 prototype. The engineers didn’t have a chance to build a cab. Tesla isn’t doing anything new right now other than brand damage control and preparing for economic winter. [Waymo’s 6th Gen vehicle](https://m.arenaev.com/waymo_is_testing_more_advanced_6th_generation_robotaxi_from_zeekr-amp-3842.php), based on a customized Zeekr variant, is an exceedingly practical 4 seater with minivan-like doors that slide forward and rearward to provide a huge entryway.

Yep. Although it won’t be based on time of day or neighborhood quality, just licensing based boundaries.

Tesla is gearing up a manufacturing line for CyberCabs so I have a feeling it's not going to be Tesla playing catch up given Waymo has less than 1,000 vehicles and a handful of cities. Waymo's sensor suite had to overcompensate with pre mapping environments and using LiDAR because their AI isn't very good. Waymo is very behind being able to drive in unknown and dynamic environments. Magic 8 ball says things don't look good for Waymo, though it's not like Google cares. For them it's yet another tech demo to write off.

>This is a monumental task and I’m surprised Tesla are going all in so early Elon has been saying "FSD next year" for 6+ years now. HW1 was supposed to be capable of doing FSD, and we're on HW4. It's hardly early for them based on the expectations they've set and where their competitors are at. Vision only is a farce. I'll gladly eat those words, but nothing they have shown has ever given good reason to suggest that they will progress past supervision. FSD still makes dangerous decisions in-city far too regularly to trust removing the wheel and pedals. This is just a way to drum up hype and get the stock back up.

So you don't actually have FSD, and I do (on two cars, both V12 and V13, nonetheless), but you think you somehow know more about the everyday experience of it than me? Good joke. Also, selective response. I said I haven't had to "critically" intervene, as in intervene to prevent a dangerous situation. I intervene often on forcing lane changes and whatnot.

[https://waymo.com/blog/2024/06/largest-autonomous-ride-hail-territory-in-us-now-even-larger](https://waymo.com/blog/2024/06/largest-autonomous-ride-hail-territory-in-us-now-even-larger) This is geo-fencing. This is not what Tesla is going to do. Tesla is going to operate in the entire area that gives them authorization.

So only certain employees get to use ride-heiling?

How long ago was your trial? I had one back in November that was like that. However, currently, I’m only having to take over to park and to deal with unusually bad drivers, like the tractor trailer yesterday who decided that a 2 lane road was a great place to make unsafe turns that would have crunched me and the 3 cars behind me if we hadn’t all backed up. Otherwise, I really haven’t had to intervene at all with the new updates.

It will be interesting to see a comparison, don't think that will happen before it's open to the public. Would imagine employees would be told NOT to do that, at least not for public reporting. Wonder if Tesla are doing comparisons themselves?

Swear to god some people’s expectations are ridiculous. Oh no it can’t drive in a white out storm with solid ice over all 6 cameras and no GPS

I hope this works as well as I think it will and doesn’t hurt any innocent people in the process

Correct me if I am wrong but Tesla needs to have level 4 (like Waymo) to pull the trigger on unsupervised robotaxis in June. So we are to believe that from today until June, it will go from level 2 to a level 4. Right?

Maybe it's my route but for me it was 100% fail rate so I just cancelled the subscription. It was always trying to do something dumb such as taking the wrong exit or freaking out and disengaging due to construction or other drivers doing shitty driving. 2021 Model Y so maybe with the new computer is not as bad.

They must have something up their sleeves.

“… tolerance …. deaths” Scary

Tesla (mainly Elon) say and promise many many things of which 90% doesn't come true.