Tesla 2025 Q1 Quarterly Update Mega thread

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Interesting rally off the relatively bad earnings report.  Thoughts?

Little slow on the uptake mods. Quarterly results were hours ago.

> Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle lineup. So the opposite to what was Reuters claiming a few days ago?

We need more models, a large SUV, and a work van are top of my head.

Is more affordable models just stripped down versions of what they are already offering?

If you’re trading TSLA on fundamentals you’re doing it wrong

Sorry for delay. We had non-reddit things going on in our "lives".

Yes

Earnings weren’t as bad as investors expected. Next!

you really think they’re going to come out on time? EDIT: if you do, i have a trillion dollars in gov’t savings to sell you.

I mean who do you think has a better track record? Reuters or Musk?

That’s the same quote that has been in the earnings since last year. That gives them basically two months left to start production.

A large SUV to take up capacity on the Cybertruck line seems like it would be good planning.

Literally playing the slots when trading TSLA

So that’s not new ‘models’, that’s just new trims.

Still ignoring the fact that the main reason sales are down is because of Elon.

Lots of heads buried in the sand at Tesla leadership. They probably can't insinuate that being the cause for fear of retaliation from the Techno-King.

Hard to really say from that statement alone. It could be that it uses tech they've mentioned previously (like steer by wire) in terms of platform and parts or entire bodyparts from existing models.... Or it could be a stripped down 3/y. I have to imagine that steer by wire is cheaper to produce than its alternative, right?

Any undergrad business student will tell you that pricing isn’t their problem. Their brand is the problem. Lowering prices isn’t the solution… it’s just giving them additional problems (less revenue per unit and potentially lowered perceived quality)

I thought it's supposed to be smaller.

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They specifically said “no” when this question was asked on earnings…. But we’ll find out shortly I suppose

Let’s see if that holds up the rest of the year lol

As short sellers drooled about*

Yup, I’d be buy another if it weren’t for him and I know many in my situation.

The base models would have used Chinese LFP batteries, but the tariffs ruined any plans of making them "affordable"

Algos control this part of the curve. They will meter the downside and, I imagine, many of us will like it.

Would you buy another if they outed him?

> our intelligence. Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

I recently sold my third Tesla and while Elon wasn’t the sole reason why, I can tell you with 100% certainty that I’m not buying another one until he’s gone.

So let’s say he is gone. Wouldn’t he still have his Tesla stock. So providing Tesla with sales would still technically benefit Elon. What’s the point of boycotting now vs post-Elon?

Yes. Suburban or Tahoe sized. Would love that.

Perhaps it's time to start thinking about what a post-Elon Tesla may look like.

Optimus/CyberCab will make the 3/Y look like the S/X is now. Small potatoes. At least that's the plan. Go big or go home. No time for lower volume models. Let smaller companies deal with that.

Did you even listen to the call?

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I’m curious how much cheaper they can make it if they remove features that base Camrys and accords don’t have. Like heated/ventilated seats, power telescopic steering wheel, folding side mirrors, rear entertainment screen, power trunk. But then, is there a market for a tesla without all these?

Thanks for the laugh

Nobody really knows - it’s hard to think that “new models” just means less stuff because Tesla has been doing this (smaller battery packs, RWD, textile seats, etc.) for years and never defined it as a new model; it was just a configuration. They have went out of their way here to call it out as a new model(s) so I think we get something more than just configuration changes.

The goal post would then move to: I’m not buying it while he owns stocks

They can’t make him sell his shares. They can kick him out of the company.

I'm not buying one unless Musk and the entire Board are divested and gone.

Is he in the closet?

Model Y came out BEFORE they said it would.

Man, Reuters might look really, really dumb in a few months if they’re wrong.

I still have no idea why an individual would buy a cybercab. It makes no sense as a privately owned vehicle and fleet buyers have better options. Liability alone seems to cancel it out.

Do decontented models count as new ones?

If he was gone then another Tesla would be in the running when the wife’s current car finally dies, but now wouldn’t consider that or another one when my current one dies either.

Depends, if he is forced to sell his shares and his wealth is no longer linked to Tesla, absolutely.

People have been saying that for years, yet here we are. I don't expect we'll see that anytime soon, and I don't think Tesla will be worse for it in any lasting long term capacity (just like they haven't for the past decade)

Honestly not sure which way you intended for that to sound - both have pretty terrible track records lol

I'll only accept Government Cheese.

That assumes he doesn’t liquidate his shares out of spite. If they force him out I think that’s a fairly likely option. He’ll want the extra cash to blow on the next hostile takeover of a social media company. Probably Reddit.

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Lmao

seeing as the model y shares 70% of its parts with the model 3, it’s not really surprising.

It’s baked into the price. It always is.

Their biggest strong suit 5+ years ago was their brand. Ironic that it’s their strongest detractor now.

I’m sick of all these vanity projects musk is having them do. Just stick to normal cars ffs

Cybercab should have been a stripped down model y

I’d buy one, albeit one sale isn’t enough to justify producing a new model. On a serious note, affordability is a huge hindrance to EVs gaining majority market share, that and home charging. $40k is very expensive, for instance you can buy a Versa for $19k. If Tesla comes out with a model that’s $30k or even sub-$30k(yes I know I’m dreaming) now there’s significantly more people that can afford one.

Affordable will be two seats?

This isn't a personal quote from Musk, it's an official statement from the company in a legal document. Whereas, libel excluded, Reuters can pretty much claim whatever they want.

I rarely see the new model facelifts.. Tesla going down in 5 years

Would you consider this base model if they removed all the FSD out of it? A lot of people don’t care about FSD (everyone that bought other brands).

I think this is a super interesting question. I personally wouldn’t, but I think many many people who are not even used to blind spot cameras much less FSD would bite for less money. You could also have a cheaper computer and front facing camera for something resembling autopilot 1.0 on Original S.  HW4 being relatively easy to install for a price at a service center could be a good idea. There are many things that can be stripped out, really. I just don’t know if a race to the bottom is their play unless robotaxi doesn’t work out, which I see is unlikely.

I think there is a market for cheaper cars, but I don't know that they can strip off enough from existing models to make the gap worth it. What most companies would do, is have a model that starts cheaper, like 25k and overlaps the next model up, so like 40-45k for a performance version. Make it smaller, and have the cheap one be stripped down to make money and have a mid tier with typical tesla options, and a performance.

So much this

With such results - what are your thoughts on Tesla bringing back that 0% APR offer that ran through march month?

They were worse than expected. But that’s just how Tesla stock goes; opposite of the common wisdom (common sense?). Someone posted while ago how the stock always goes in the opposite direction than expected.

It’s not just what he owns right now, he also gets awarded stocks worth billions regularly for just being the ceo.

I don’t trade $TSLA anymore. It’s an outlier in an already irrational market, totally divorced from its fundamentals.

Any hope to get special APR on the new Model Y around June? Doubtful but I wish.

Who's ready for Regular Truck?

It has become slap you in the face obvious now though. The CEO was at campaign events jumping around and doing interviews standing next to the President. Its incredibly divisive for the brand and it is unclear if tying teslas brand to a political party is increasing any sales. But it is undeniable that it is turning people off.

Did you lol

It’s obviously a variant of the cyber cab.

Car sales won’t matter once robotaxis start coming online. The stock is gonna go through the roof once it’s clear they succeeded and are going to scale.

And that was only because the board forced it.

Difficult to overstate how poorly cybertruck is selling. 13k deliveries of S, X, and cybertruck in the first quarter, down 25% from a year ago.

I think they were bad, but not catastrophic. That $37 billion in cash while only spending 1.5 on capital improvements gives them a lot of runway. It looks like the spend on DC's and Nvidia chips is winding down and with Mexico essentially off the table now with a trade war, there wont be any massive undertakings for the foreseeable future. Tesla has the ability to slow down production, they are not deep in debt or have massive pension obligations like the union shops. So they can furlow cybertruck lines and other lines as needed since they dont need that massive cash flow to meet those obligations. I think also moving more battery production to the US will help keep costs down. This is something their competitors cannot do and so Tesla will be able to sell a cheaper EV than others. I value cybertaxi as 0 and the robot as 0, those are like google bets, they might pay off in the looooong term, but wont do squat for the next few years. I think the unboxing assembly line is probably their biggest thing going for them. Model 2 (or what ever you want to call it) is the same platform as cybercab. I dont think they are building a 5 sec per car line just for cybercab, i think its also for model 2. There is a future at Tesla, its not doom and gloom like reddit makes it sound like. If Elon goes back to just being a advocate for technology and not politics, people will quickly forget about brand damage and go back to the brand if its a good product. History has proven this 100's of times. The attention span of a consumer is as deep as their pockets. If there is a bargain to be had, they will buy it and justify it.

Not for me, if he is gone then I'll buy the Tesla I've wanted for a long time.

Same.

Didn’t Elon supposed to have some big live announcement?

He'd have to be gone and no longer be a major shareholder before I would consider buying another

They wouldn’t need to delay new trims because of tariffs situation

Not well I guess

Most likely.

Because it’s not clear yet

The stock is already through the roof, and FSD still requires supervision. "Once they" has been a thing for years and years and years. Meanwhile, Waymo actually has robotaxis already in the field, making money.

I wasn't able to hear the whole thing, I know they said less expensive variations were coming to existing models, but did they say if performance or 7-seater variants were coming for the Y?

It’s not. The new car also shares aspects of the existing fleet as well. I think a lot of people will eat crow on this one.

No. New affordable models will have a different and smaller skin. My guess is they may be 48 volt and drive by wire with colour injected plastic panels but will be assembled alongside 3 and Y with the same batteries and motors.

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Tesla reported lower than expected earnings on Tuesday, with first-quarter profits dropping 71% on much lower sales of electric vehicles.  The company reported adjusted earnings-per-share of 27 cents, far lower than expectations from analysts of 41 cents. The only bright spot in the company’s numbers were the $595 million in revenue brought in from carbon credits, the money paid by car companies making traditional gas-powered vehicles to offset the pollution they generate. ***Without those carbon credits, Tesla would’ve posted an operating loss for the quarter.*** Musk tried to put a slightly rosier spin on the state of his EV company in an [earnings call](https://www.youtube.com/live/vs4cfyyMWhQ) Tuesday, but he still sounded very depressed. The billionaire’s tone was subdued as he emphasized the autonomous taxi rides that he would be launching in Texas this June wouldn’t be the Cybercab vehicles many people on social media had expected. The company will only be operating Tesla Model Ys to pick up passengers, deflating news for some who had hoped Musk might deliver something unique. Tesla reported $19.3 billion in revenue in the first quarter, down 9% compared with the same period a year earlier. The company produced 362,000 vehicles and delivered over 336,000. Deliveries of Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y were down 12%. While the company doesn’t break out official figures for the Cybertruck, the product bucket that includes that truck was down 24%.

It’s $10-15k overpriced. They missed badly. It’s a shame because the platform is spot on. Good news is we’ll see cybercab iterated on it

Co worker just bought a 3 and loves it so for every few that don’t buy them out of spite there are those where all this publicity is getting them to buy, and I see a ton of model ys on the road, didn’t they just report that Tesla is outselling all other EVs combined even with their sales down from last year

I miss the days when it was a symbol of brave engineering. Now it's a symbol of other junk I don't like.

I'll never forget. As long as he's the head of the company I'm not buying.

Elon has never been a low profile CEO or someone who people are ambivalent about. But he stepped it wayyy up in the last 6 months, especially embracing the opposite of the political spectrum to most Tesla consumers (let's face it - Tesla owners are liberals). That's really bad news for brand loyalty.

And he even said himself, he’ll be connected to doge for quite some time.

It'll be interesting as the recession comes into view how the other manufacturing companies do. Obviously tesla gets headlines, but I test drove the Ford Mach E and the Hyundais this weekend and both dealerships seemed desperate to move any vehicle.

The big difference between this upcoming new vehicle (that I’m sure is the board’s idea) and the Model Y is that Elon has severely tarnished the brand. When the model Y came out, Tesla was riding a high of m3 sales and the s and x being seen as coveted luxury vehicles. launch events and announcements were heavily attended. Just look at YouTube back then and how much content and engagement was being created off anything Tesla. It was Apple levels of enthusiasm. Elon took all of that goodwill and took a big shit on it. IMHO — and I say this as an ex-stockholder (2018-2024) — Tesla has a shot at rehabilitating their brand if they get rid of Elon and put an adult in charge.

No, it’s still the leader but not against combined. The market share is now 43.4% so other ev’s combined are 56.6%. Last year teslas market share was 55.5%.

Probably not, unless I absolutely could not afford a model 3. But that won’t happen unless plans change, Tesla already said they’re not releasing any vehicles without autonomous capabilities.

Where are all the test mules then?

I took a test drive in it about a week ago. My thoughts about it were "Yeah this thing is an upgrade over my Model 3, but not a 40k upgrade".

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Same. Never again.

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They are way further from that being a reality than you think. People put down $100k roadster deposits nearly a decade ago with nothing to show for it. The robotaxi is more than likely 10+ years from being a reality.

its about the macro. Trump said he was gonna lower tariffs on China

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Yeah for them to re-iterate the timeline on this call actually does mean quite a lot. Means they are internally confident these products will be ready by then. For them to push it back 6+ months after saying it will be ready in 2 months could open them up to lawsuits

Regular consumers, you are right, short attention span. But he built Tesla by messaging climate-conscious liberals. Then he betrayed them. A shit moment for a brand? Forgettable. A betrayal? Never. So unless Tesla can make up sales from non-political car buyers (they exist) or electric-car-hating conservatives, they have a tough road ahead.

Who do people think are going to be using these robotaxis? Urban liberals? Every problem Tesla faces given Musk’s politics is magnified with a product that can only work at scale, where lots of people live, who are overwhelmingly liberal. Good luck making robotaxis work in the exurbs of farm country.

It’s a vehicle that drives for you while you sleep or watch a movie. It can drop you off in a busy area and then go park somewhere cheaper further away. It can make you money while you sleep. Who wouldn’t want it? There’s no comparison. No alternative. Tesla won’t be able to make CyberCabs fast enough.

Why not? Where do you think all the materials come from? They aren’t weaving seat fabric in the US.

I mean you have got to realize, given the trend line of AI right now, that manually driven cars are going to end up like the manual transmission. A niche.

Yes

> Then he betrayed them. I think you might need to check who started attacking who first.

Billions? You sure about that?

Nobody is buying TSLA at this price based on car sales. You're buying TSLA right now because you think they will solve self driving.

So no hope to stalks and front bumper camera highland? If what they’re doing is cutting trims..

They didn't say no. As a matter fact they basically said 'yes'. >And so, models that come out in next months will be built on our lines and will resemble, in form and shape, the cars we currently make. And the key is that they’ll be affordable, and you’ll be able to buy one.

Lol @ the irony of your username.

Sounds like an entirely reasonable person!

🤡

Every $5k cheaper you make a car, your market doubles. But as a counterpoint... at some point there's no benefit in removing features. If every car they make has a power telescopic steering wheel, it costs more to set up the production to have a second method.

The population of exurbs and farm country is so low to not matter.

The problem is that Tesla only exists because of the extremely long-term vision of Elon. No „hired“ CEO would have made these kinds of long bets - and stuck to them. It would be a Spindler/Amelio repeat.

Tesla board is fighting in courts for their right to award Elon $45 billion. So yeah. Whole reason they’re moving the company to Texas.

Make sure you tell all of the upside down owners and anything-but-Tesla environmentally conscious buyers out there this. It will surely change Tesla’s fortunes. 🤣

I was hoping for an upgrade (I bought FSD 6+ years ago) but honestly I don’t think the company is capable of delivering FSD with any hardware in the next couple of years and at some point I need to get a new car. Hopefully Elon is out by then and the company can recover, although I’m worried with all of his pet projects and firing sprees they don’t have much in the pipeline.

Wait until you see Q2. They are going to need a lot more any-PR-is-good-PR buyers.

oh my sweet summer child.

Same would have ordered a Juniper straight away. Elon is keeping me away, going to keep Model 3 for longer as I can’t see it getting a lot of it at the moment.

There are things like lock up agreements, but of course that is with agreement between parties. I'm not that familiar with the power a board has and what they can do personally though.

After January, it would take more than that for me personally. Since buying one would still benefit him and his ability to achieve his political goals. I was ready to buy one before then if there was a move to remove the tax credit.

The Model S and X probably sell poorly due to poor advertising. They're great vehicles, but the issue is that they haven't gotten any major updates since the Plaid refresh that could be advertised. Compared to 2021, the cars now have tilting screens, HW4, AMD Ryzen, new headlights/taillights, and even a new battery architecture, but none of that is anything that could be advertised to a great extent. Back in the 2010s, every year, the Model S got something new or different, which excited people, but now it seems like nothing exciting is happening despite the changes.

Same

None of that would matter to those of us paying attention.

That's okay. We're on reddit, a place which is hyper partisan and where hatred of certain values is common. The other side will hopefully make up the missing sales though.

And there’s no evidence at this point to believe they will. They will continue to sell cars and energy storage solutions. Is that worth the price? The taxi business is a non-starter.

You think MAGA folks and regular conservatives are buying electric cars?

I feel like it’s also due to Tesla themselves. The refresh is still missing features that are on either the legacy S/X or the 3/Y. One example is you can’t customize the instrument cluster, yet the existence of it is supposed to be a selling point. Another is that you can’t control basic autopilot distance with the right scroll wheel. Things that would be trivial for them to fix but they haven’t made an effort to. (Upcoming blind spot cam in cluster is welcome, but there should be options for music, trip info, etc)

Hi, conservative here. Loved Tesla since the roadster days, and spent 10 years in a piece of junk so we could afford our first tesla. Now that we have a Y, we're saving for a CT. Believe it or not, a lot of centrist/conservative types have been on board since the early days. Our nature doesn't lend us to be as loud as the environmentalist, but many of us love the engineering/technology and efficiency aspect. I've always been excited about the prospects of energy independence. Trust me. We're out there. We just tend to mind our own business.

What’s new about the battery architecture? I’m thinking between a 2022 and 2023 and only thing I can tell is different is HW4. Is there any site that tracks the annual changes on these vehicles?

Me like fast car, no me care gas or electric.

That’s a good point.

I think the main problem with the S and X is the 3 and Y are so good.

You believe there's zero evidence they'll *ever* solve it when there are plenty of examples of their cars self driving with zero interventions for hundreds of miles? The hardware on the HW3 cars will likely never be enough, but the improvements on the HW4 cars (and you'd expect on to the next generation with the cybercab) already suggests the software will get there. And likely sooner rather than later. What evidence do you have that the latest hardware and software shows that Tesla will **never** be able to solve self driving to a sufficient standard for the taxi business?

What I wonder is if they produce a sub-$30k, will the government still keep the $7500 tax credits in place? Traditional automakers are going to be screaming if you can buy a Tesla for $22K.

Might be a good time to start traditional advertising.

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Elon saying he's stepping away from DOGE and spending more time at Tesla is win for everyone. It's been a shitshow for the past few months. It didn't influence my decision to buy a Model 3 back in December, but I gladly welcome seeing less Tesla hate every day on social media.

The interesting question there is, what is Tesla's cost in offering FSD? People can enable it later via software. Effectively they're already selling an FSD-free car. Plus... if they leave the hardware they can still use that hardware to train their datasets.

I think it's about 22 times more likely that the Tesla buyer is democrat rather than republican. That was last year though. So yeah, good luck with finding buyers.

Are the carbon credits linked to the number of cars they sell? So if they sell fewer cars, the carbon credits are lower?

>Literally playing the slots when trading ~~TSLA~~ FTFY

Waymo solved it already, they’ve had self-driving taxis on the road for several years and expanding into new territories. What exactly will Tesla solve?

There wouldn't be a need for the side cameras and an upgraded processor. But I see your point in essentially getting "free" data to train models if the car is equipped with all the cameras.

They can’t sell an FSD or AP free car even if they wanted to. They would have to replace all the required safety hardware with 3rd party venders, which would end up being more expensive than just throwing the completed engineering and refined FSD suite. AEB, rear camera, parking sensors, etc all add up.

It basically is. Same lines & wheelbase etc. Just different styling and a much smaller battery. Which makes a bit of sense when most cabs are 2 people or less with no luggage. It can be far more efficient as the cab than a model Y driving. Model Ys are also ready to be produced without a steering wheel, albeit they will be useless atm, a combo of both for a fleet makes sense.

They have basically unlimited carbon credits. Carbon credits are linked to the number of ICE vehicles other companies sell in the US, which they then have to offset with carbon credits/EV sales.

When the plaid refresh first came out, the battery packs were the same as the Model S Performance of the legacy generation. They were based on a 350v architecture with a 100kw capacity, of which 98kw was usable. In 2024, they updated the battery packs to use a 407v architecture and have a size of 105kw, 95kw of which are usable. The higher voltage architecture means the battery packs are more efficient and can charge at a higher voltage, which means they can hold high DC charging rates for longer. I don't think there's a website that lists the vehicle's monthly changes. I found most of the information about the changes from several different sources.

People are looking for an excuse to buy TSLA. Elon gave them an excuse when he said he'd spend ONLY TWO DAYS A WEEK in the government. So how many has he been spending lately?

Stop drooling.

I literally laughed at the Earth Day email I got from Tesla.

Yeah, I'm likely moving to Rivian after my lease ends.

Yes, but that's only part of the problem. Besides the Model 3 and the Model Y, they don't have cars that a lot of people actually want while other manufacturers are saturating the market with EVs in all sizes and shapes.

Waymo has absolutely not “solved” it.

Thank you for this information. I’m saving your post for future reference.

Waymo requires detailed maps of every street they can go on. Tesla is able to self-drive much higher diversity, so they should be able to scale out much quicker. They can probably build today a trouble map of every spot in America that FSD requires intervention because of the fleet of FSD cars.

And help boost resale values when they get them as trade-ins.

The media amplifies political divides. Most Uber/Lyft users will choose cheaper, private Cybercabs. Few liberals will pay more for a worse ride just to make a political point.

The tax credit is skating on pretty thin ice already, but Tesla is actually behind the curve on an affordable Y trim. Chevy sells the base Equinox EV for $35k and it is eligible for the credit.

The Cybercab is definitely not just a stripped Y, it’s being build with their “unboxed” manufacturing process on a completely new manufacturing line. They confirmed that on the call last night.

The biggest strong suit 5+years ago was a complete lack of EV competition.

On top of what the other two replies have said, I was replying to a poster who said that Tesla would *never* solve the taxi business because they would *never* solve self driving. I disagree with you that Waymo has solved it - they would be scaling the business much more rapidly if that were the case - but even if you're right that simply backs up my point of view that Tesla can solve it too in time rather than it being something that will *never* happen.

There are definitely conservatives that buy teslas but nowhere near the number of the progressive crowd. That’s a huge problem for TSLA. Cant alienate the majority of your customer base.

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Thanks for sharing. Now why are you here?

Cool. So why are you here? You’ve just stated you’ll never have anything to do with Tesla.

Is it, though? Certainly, in the early days, it mattered. As a fledgling company, tesla relied on that progressive ideology to make sales, as the product wasn't yet competitive on paper. Today the model Y and CT have more range than any gas car I've ever owned, and all the other comforts/bonuses we've come to know of tesla and EVs in general. I've not met a single person, left or right, that spent time behind the wheel of a tesla and still hated it. Do they exist? Probably. But the idea that the right leaning crowd will die clutching their Jerry cans is blown way out of proportion. Electric is now the better option for everything except heavy construction and those who live off of 4 thousand dollar junkers from their uncles back alley dealer lot.

I don’t think you know what the word “regularly” means.  That stock award was for services rendered based on shareholder approval, until a single judge ruled it too much.

No it's much more of a 50 50 split than that. I think i recall 60:40 D or similar. EDIT: I quote: > "Surveys show Tesla shoppers are only slightly more likely to be Democrats than Republicans. Surveys by research firm Morning Consult show that in January about 22% of Democrats were considering buying a Tesla, while 17% of Republicans were looking to purchase one. And that gap has been closing - Republican consideration of buying a Tesla has risen about 3 percentage points just since December's survey." https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/cars/tesla-buyer-politics/index.html

Ah, haven’t finished listening to the Q&A part.

$50K. But I guess when you’re trying to support your claim it makes more sense to massively inflate the number.

They have been claiming that since 2017 - no?

Because I still own my 2019 model 3 and waiting for my Rivian R2 in 2026. Is that ok?

Elon is good at claiming things.

Surely you see the difference between a minority shareholder and the CEO / face of the company? Tesla literally doesn't have a PR department because Musk generates so much press on his own.

This was from 2023 https://thehill.com/newsletters/energy-environment/5216354-will-gop-praise-for-tesla-translate-to-sales/ It's going a bit better since then, with more recent studies saying that democrats are only 4 times more likely to buy Tesla than republicans. The issue is when the democrats stop buying, will republicans take up the slack? What will happen after Musk no longer works in the government, people have long memories. https://news.northeastern.edu/2025/04/01/elon-musk-donald-trump-tesla-brand/

I have a 2019 model 3. I've been here the whole time.

They'll never offer the sunroof again, but I'd be tempted to refresh despite that if we got steer by wire. I didn't realize they took away the console customization too. Looking at Cadillac or Volvo for my next car in a couple of years. No going back from ev of course.

He didn’t say when or by how much. Anything above pre-inauguration is still too high and they almost certainly will be. Also, tariffs hurt Tesla less than most of their competitors, this is better news for Ford, GM, etc. but until it happens nothing has actually changed. Trump can flip flop, again, in days or weeks depending on what he sees on Fox or the latest advise from a kindergartner. People are so desperate for good news that they’ll see doing nothing as a win.

I think that new variant Cybertruck gives you some insight. They'll make the seats cloth, and strip literally all of these things lol.

A smaller battery would move the needle. 150mi range perhaps.

A lot of wishful thinking and assumptions here: that Cybercab will be cheaper, that it’ll even work, and that urban liberals, being continuously fucked by Musk and Trump, won’t care. Tesla’s sales numbers prove that they do care, and it’s particularly easy in a field like ride share where there are myriad options.

Some of the hate will end if (big if), the economy manages to not plummet too much more, Elon stays out of the news (good luck with that one) and the recession/layoffs aren’t as bad as expected. Elon = DOGE regardless of whether he’s involved in it’s day to day operations.

Density and distance between destination is the key. No one in farm country is calling a Uber to get their feed in town. No one has to worry about finding parking. And the distances are so great, that rides would be particularly expensive. There’s a reason Uber/Lyft don’t operate in rural America. But hey, there’s the competitive advantage! No competition! Meanwhile, Tesla is launching cybercab in (liberal) Austin, because urban cores is where most people actually live.

yes

was the elephant in the room even adressed?

Or… you could buy a 1-2 year old, fully loaded model Y for the same price.

Wont get another one also because of Elon.

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I think its insane not consider the potential vandalism of robotaxis especially in Austin. People are vandalizing Waymos just for kicks in San Francisco. Add in an already fired up locally condensed youthful opposition in an extremely blue area and present them with unmanned mobile swastika canvases that represent the current focus of all of their anger. Tesla cannot survive with Musk at the helm. As an owner of 2 Model S's I truly hope shareholders and the board can see this before so many incredible engineers are sacrificed for the hubris of one isolated manchild's ego.

I don’t think this ever actually happened. It was rumored, but I can’t find anything that says it’s happened yet https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1854/model-s-and-x-to-get-updated-battery-or-drivetrain-updated-wheel-ambient-lighting-and-front-bumper-camera This site gives a detailed history of all notable changes https://tesla-info.com/model-history/MS

Don’t forget that some of the “premium” features of the S/X came to the 3/Y like cooled seats, rear screen, etc.. at the same time they raised the prices of the S/X. The X used to qualify for the tax credit earlier this year but no more. It was an interesting choice to raise the price of the X then refresh the Y to feel like an X at half the price. I just gave my MY lease back and I was planning on an X but I can’t justify an extra 40k for maybe half inch more legroom and falcon doors. Driving the new X felt too familiar to my MY so saving the money for the MY 7 seat.

Nope. It's definitely possible, but I don't see Tesla doing it. They want people with "older" cars to just toss them away and buy the next new thing. Just wait until HW4 insn't enough and those owners will be in the same boat as us HW3 owners...

That would probably be the biggest impact in reducing costs. I googled that Nissan leaf has a 40 (150mi) & 60 (212mi) kWh options. And Hyundai Kona has 49 (200mi) & 65 (260mi) kWh options.

But presumably Tesla can’t sell more credits to those other companies than the amount of cars Tesla sells? So the upper limit is based on how many Teslas sold?

I would if he's completely eliminated as CEO/from the board. Still have my Model Y lease for another couple years, but I'm hoping other EVs catch up to Tesla with self-driving and software usability by then. Those are really the only two things that keep me loving my Tesla over other EVs

Yup. Some good ol' FAFO for Elon 🍿

Which part? Can you provide details? I have not read anything to the contrary of my statement, would love to update my understanding.

Ahhh thanks for the correction. I’ll look into more often. Now I will say either way a 2024 is out of my price range. About the most I’m willing to spend is around $40K used.. so that probably gets me a 2022 with a few ten thousand miles.. or a 2023 with high miles but needs to be under 50K so it has factory warranty remaining.

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The difference between now and let's say 5 years ago is the fact that there are other manufacturers out there that are now putting out legitimate products to compete with Tesla. I think Tesla needs to get rid of the stain on its image, otherwise it just starts to make other brands seem like the better choice.

If you care about FSD, I would shoot for one with HW4/AI4, though I guess it won’t matter in the long run if Tesla is going to upgrade HW3 cars eventually

It will be rolled out, it will look good during the demo, people will stop talking about at some point. That has been every Boringco/neuralink/xai/X.com/hyperloop/dojo/roadster/fsd/cybertruck(range extender?)/35k model 3/tesla semi) event for the last 5 years. I used to be convinced they were working on some crazy battery tech, the supercomputer/dojo tiles, the next models of their cars, new segments, and were going to change the world. It seems likely now they were just dealing with an immature guy who had a focus on having things done yesterday, which killed all of the long, slow investments in time and resources needed for these projects. VW/Audi/Porsche has a new 800V platform, Polestar is shipping luminar systems, Moibleye chauffeur, I just do not see Tesla being competitive in a year or two. I’m really hoping I am wrong and things turn around or they are working on some things silently, but it seems unlikely that is the case.

Right. I listened to that call as well. The thing is, Elon says a lot of things and they hardly ever turn out to be true, at least in his proposed timeframe. I will be extremely shocked if Tesla actually offers a retrofit, and would put money on it that they don't actually do it.

Idk if you've shopped around, but Tesla is the clear market leader in the space, at least in North America. There is no better choice. Some of the Chinese automakers are clearly having an impact on EU/Asia sales, but the data suggests that's based on price alone. For innovation, quality, UX, features, Tesla leads the pack hands down. And as much as I love Tesla, I don't like admitting the above. I've owned BMW, Ford, and Kia EVs and given them a real honest try (10000+ miles ea). For much of the last 20 yrs, lack of a charging network was the big issue. That's largely gone away. But there are still major quality and functionality issues with literally all 3 of those I mentioned above. You don't see much written about these issues outside of owner groups, unfortunately, because of a lack of cars on the road, and an apparent lack of desire by news outlets to cover them.

Move to a southern republican state and see how many Teslas there are or the thoughts the average person has on a Tesla. People in the south want Ford trucks, not EVs which they view as a direct affront to their masculinity

\*kWh

You’re saying that in 2 months, they’ll test cars in public, build factory lines and deliver the car?

I definitely agree that Tesla is still leading, but my point was that other cars, like Rivian (which I've test-driven) are really gaining ground on Tesla. While no other company has yet topped Tesla, they are close on their tail, and the perceived negative image of Tesla may drive buyers to strongly consider the competition. I also love Tesla - I've owned my M3 since 2018 and it's the best car I've owned. I want Tesla to succeed which is exactly why I would support them parting ways with Elon. I think they need a leader that will dedicate more time to the company, not one that is distracted with multiple other pet projects.

There are gay Republicans, black Republicans, and yes, Telsa driving Republicans. But do you think any of those are representative of the group?

LOL - I bought a Model 3 at the peak of 2021 pricing, with no complaints. But I need literally nothing on that list, and would love to pay less with them. I would not be willing to part with battery size and speed, but power trunk I can live without.

I live in Florida. Teslas everywhere. I see a couple dozen just going from work to the gym.

Could you not make the same argument for democrats? In fact, you're more likely to come across a progressive saying, "ditch all cars" than you are a conservative.

I would say yes, driving an EV is representative of Democrats in general.

So is burning them. . .

That’d just be corruption without even *trying* to hide it. Unless you mean scraping it altogether. If a sub-$30k does happen, the other automakers are actually going to be in big trouble this time.

I got the year wrong. They ended up changing it earlier this year. Source: https://evkx.net/models/tesla/model_s/model_s/chargingcurve/

I don’t trust Tesla at all to upgrade the HW3 cars.. and I’ve daily driven a 2021 Model Y since I bought it brand new 4 years ago. HW4 definitely better with FSD from all accounts. But IMO that will never get there either. I don’t FSD will be anything but Supervised (aka SAE L2 self-driving) until they reach like HW5 or 6. It’s crazy that the Model Y is just now getting a bumper camera.

Tesla is a pretty diverse company. They can make up sales with Megapack and Semi which are sold to companies that dont care about politics.

40% of the people that could vote didnt. That basically tells you how little most of america is involved in politics. If you can vote you are eligible to drive, so thats about 80 million people that dont care.

Lidar is the reason. I mean maybe someday they will. But I think it will likely take a do over from a hardware and software perspective. Which I believe they are gearing up for, and why they’re buying Lidar, and parting ways with their head of software, etc. I’ve owned three cars with self-driving software and Tesla is by far the worst. The reason Elon can’t predict when features will be available (off by years and decades, not weeks or months, and never actually delivering the thing he’s promised) is likely because the hardware/software engineering approach is fundamentally flawed. When you’re in a situation like that, you usually continue to lie to yourself, you push the team for incremental improvements that look like progress but have no chance of reaching their goal. Your roadmap is a mess, your ability to reliably predict what’s going to be delivered within a reasonable margin (say 20%) is nil, dates move in perpetuity, you continue to hope the next release will be “the one.” It never is. The software problem here is incredibly difficult - nearly impossible - to solve. The Navlab projects in the 80’s and 90’s, DARPA’s Grand Challenge in the early 2000’s, Google in the 2010’s. All of them drove “hundreds of thousands of autonomous miles.” And yet none solved the problem. And now Tesla has been at it for ~15 years, trying to overcome the same edge case issues for at least half of that time. I wonder, what makes you think that after nearly 45 years, Tesla will be the one to solve this using only cameras and code?

The reason they don't advertise is because the learning curve is steep, because "the Tesla way" is different, and they do a crap job of owner education in general, to the extent I have to hang out on Reddit to learn about it, and they appeal to those that are self motivated to learn about their cars. They can't just pivot to "come buy a Tesla!" to the masses without making some other big changes first. I've never told any rando "hey, you should buy a Tesla." Never ever. Teslas are not for the average run of the mill car owner. Too different. It would frustrate them. Starting with " you buy it off the website" and ending with "no, you can't just call them up and ask them a question."

If you haven’t experienced V13 yet, you might change your mind

Where does it say that at that link?

Mb, sent you the link of the wrong tab. If you click on specifications and look under battery details it shows the updated battery information. https://evkx.net/models/tesla/model_s/model_s/specifications/

Reddit and the Internet is a bubble. If Tesla taxis are cheap and effective, people will use them.

I’m not sure if this proves anything or not. I can’t find any source that says the battery changed. This site isn’t specifying a year even. I’m open to being proven wrong, but I’m skeptical that anything has changed Especially if you consider that some kind of refresh is happening later this year, I don’t see why they would change anything major now

It would be "poor advertising" if they had those features to advertise. I think what you're describing is "lack of features".

\> they would be scaling the business much more rapidly if that were the case Maybe they're not scaling it because there's no market demand?

It's probably an unpopular opinion, but i think they should slowly roll back the federal credit now that EVs are getting cheaper. Maybe reduce by $1000 every year for the next 7-8 years. Removing it all at once will decimate EV sales. I'd like to get my wife a Rivian R2 in the next few years to replace her ICE SUV. And I would love to get the full tax credit, but I know it's not going to last forever.

I think they should keep it until EVs and ICEs have price parity. After that we don’t need it anymore. But I don’t think it’ll last that long. Sadly all good things must come to an end.

Doesn't [seem to be the case](https://www.reddit.com/r/waymo/comments/1jms2nc/continued_growth_at_waymo/), they're just not using a model that scales quickly across geographic regions.

So… who is legally liable for its driving and accidents? And will it ONLY be insurable through Tesla insurance? Because no other insurance company is gonna touch them. Anybody buying one should have significant umbrella coverage.

You obviously haven't owned a HW4 based Tesla running the latest iterations of FSD in the US. They've had the do over with the hardware and software, and now there isn't a car you can by that performs better. LiDAR also isn't some magical solution that solves everything. It comes with its own suite of issues and gives you a complex sensor integration problem to solve as you absolutely need a functioning vision system even if you augment it with LiDAR data. That's one of the misconceptions - you need a fully functioning vision system regardless. Tesla are ostensibly buying LiDAR units as they've long used them for generating test data to help train their models. It's a useful reference point for that use even if it's not then used in production. > I wonder, what makes you think that after nearly 45 years, Tesla will be the one to solve this using only cameras and code? Two things. Firstly the fact that their FSD system running the latest iterations on HW4 and in the US appears very close to being that solution. Secondly the huge amount of training data they are gathering from their fleet of millions of vehicles. That is something unique to Tesla, at least at the moment. Given the progress in the last couple of years since they switched to the modern stack and expanded their model size it seems like a case of when not if. I would imagine that the Cybercab will end up being released this year, next at the latest, in a few cities in the US where their data is best. It will operate autonomously every bit as well as Waymo, but on a much cheaper and more scalable platform so that Tesla will rapidly overtake Waymo in terms of geographic regions served. Would you bet against that happening? If so, why?

Obviously when the vehicle is operating supervised by Tesla remote operations, Tesla is liable otherwise you are. Tesla has more than enough people to figure out how the insurance will be structured. Compared to everything else, it’s not a big deal.

Elon said he's plan to work 2 days a week at DOGE during Trump presidency. Not to mention he has like 3 other companies that he's the CEO of.

I quote: > "Surveys show Tesla shoppers are only slightly more likely to be Democrats than Republicans. Surveys by research firm Morning Consult show that in January about 22% of Democrats were considering buying a Tesla, while 17% of Republicans were looking to purchase one. And that gap has been closing - Republican consideration of buying a Tesla has risen about 3 percentage points just since December's survey." https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/03/cars/tesla-buyer-politics/index.html

So you admit the person you responded to is right, that the board wants to give him $45,000,000,000???

Of course they have a PR department you dolt. Running a social media account is "public relations", for example.

It's clear to everyone, even Elon admits he is spending too much time at DOGE.

But then why are you here? You apparently want nothing to do with the company as you’re just biding your time until you can dump your Tesla to get a Rivian. Why come back to a sub for something you don’t want part of? I don’t get social media. I guess sharing your feelings to find other people who say the same helps you collectively feel better about yourselves and your decisions? It’s the internet, so search for any answer and you’ll find it, but why not go to one of the Tesla hating subs where you can all together really share your hatred?

Only if they both ousted him, he divested of all his shares, and the Board is replaced (as they are all loyalists with no accountability and governance). There can be no possibility of him coming back or ever exerting any control whatsoever. I have Rivians on order. (own four Teslas, early investor from before IPO, no current holdings)

Drop the dang falcons and drop 10k off and I’m in an X

S and X look the same externally as they did a few years ago. They need an external facelift.

I mean a Chevy is an affordable Cadillac in many ways. A traverse is a cheaper XT6. It depends how thoughtful they are in what they cut out.

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But see, the concern is that your car goes and does an oopsie into some crosswalk grandma and then you get named as a defendant because you're the owner. It's not just the insurance, it's the big picture liability. The car insurance will not at all protect a vehicle owner entirely -- every attorney will go after the owner in addition to suing Tesla. That's where the umbrella coverage comes in, so there will (and should) be costs beyond the simple insurance coverage for the car itself. In the end, you the owner are personally *unavoidably* liable for the vehicle and for that, I'd never touch one. I think there are a few options: Tesla can assume all liability, no matter the actual owner. You'd still be named as a Defendant and have to escape as best you can from any lawsuit. This may help sell a cybercab, but Tesla can't afford it once a pile of judgments come in on the regular. And they may just start claiming that owners modified them or some other way to worm out of responsibility and then you're back in trouble. Alternatively, each buyer has to get commercial insurance for ridesharing -- this is probably a given anyway. Other options get really disqualifyingly nasty real quick. I can't think of a scenario where the car has an accident and the owner *does not* get sued. It's also unknown what controls any strange passenger would have access to in the cabin (emergency stop scenario, or window controls -- what happens when somebody does a drive by shooting FROM YOUR CAR -- fringe shit happens.) There's absolutely no way Tesla can sell these and avoid liability -- but also I'm doubting there's a way you can buy one and avoid liability.

Only to sell in the US - China can still supply the rest of the world.

Your comment made me really appreciate that we got a MY 7 seater. I’d love the X but just too stingy fkr the extra $30-40k spend.

You’re making a mountain out of a molehill. Tesla being one of the most valuable car companies in the world has more than enough legal and financial resources to figure it out.

Honestly, it’s just still priced too high to sell in large volumes and the polarizing design probably doesn’t help. If they had hit the original price targets it’d have sold a LOT better.

As long as they’re not bleeding money you can basically hope that they actually pull off Optimus or the Cybercab or sell AI chips or whatever so that’s probably why it bounced a bit. They’re still profitable for now even though profits dropped a lot but that means infinite runway since this is probably one of the worst possible quarters

The platform is trash. It's a cast aluminum frame. The doors are stainless steel. They did it inside out.

Tesla is now an embarrassing brand to own. If you are in the S/X price category, you have plenty of better options in any case.

I am having a really hard time getting head around the PE multiple for Tesla vs. BYD. Tesla is about 5x BYD yet BYD sales and technology and future earnings seem to exceed Tesla. BYD has self driving now as well. Thoughts?

That's a good point. We haven't seen them "devalue" their brand yet so to speak so we'll just have to wait and see what comes out. The hard part is most of the stuff that makes the car expensive isn't really "luxury". The interiors are pretty economical and the features are mainly software driven. I'm not sure what they could strip down that would bring the price more than $3-5k lower other than significantly reducing the battery size.

No. The only two seater Is the cybercab. Maybe the roadster.

Their track history proves that they don’t want people to throw away their older cars. They offered MCU upgrades for the original S&X. They offered 4G cellular upgrades for the older cars. They offered hardware 3 upgrades for the 2.5 cars. I’m not aware of a single other manufacturer that offered cellular upgrades or entertainment system upgrades for older cars are you?

This isn’t the kind of thing they would announce. It’s just the kind of thing that will just start showing up on new models.

Thanks, sounds right. But at the same time, what I mean is if they’re cutting trims, it’s hard to imagine they’re adding things like a new cam for free to a existent model…

Depends how useful it is for a robotaxi. That is where Tesla sees the most future income growth from.

No, the main reason sales are down is because model Y is 70% of sales, and production was shut down for 3 weeks and took another 8 to reach prior production.

Not just that, the US doesn't have ore mines. So anything coming out of the US steelmills is gonna rise in price.

Quite a few of that oppinon talk about boycotting till he divests. Tho most of those don't expect that to ever happen.

Isnt this basically a Y ?

No. It’s about a foot longer and 6 inches wider, and air suspension. Once you have 3 or 4 kids, every inch is worth a lot..

You are discounting all the conservatives that are now embracing Tesla... The ones who used to criticize and make fun of them. He may have alienated some climate conscious liberals, but he seems to be gaining customers on the other side.

It’s at 1.99% now