Tesla First Quarter 2025 Production, Deliveries & Deployments

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Looks like they're about 50,000 cars under from Q1 2024. Largely due to their retooling of assembly lines to start producing the Model Y. It'll be interesting to see how they do in Q2, now that the new Model Y is in production properly, and Q3 after the Cybercab, presumably, starts being used in Austin.

> Largely due to their retooling of assembly lines to start producing the Model Y lol wut, it’s largely because Elon has turned the brand so toxic to the point that there are mass demonstrations outside the dealers, people getting insulted driving, and vandalism now becoming a concern Sales for *everything* are down

What I’m seeing from this is that demise of Tesla is being greatly exaggerated.

Its largely due to the extreme negative sentiment hes receiving in the us, also tesla is losing the chinese market which has a decent impact.

Tesla just had their best week of the year in China and their 4th best week ever. So wtf are you talking about?? edit: the deleted comment above claimed Tesla's sales in china were declining when, in fact, they are not.

There's got to be *some* decent impact from the negative sentiment, but Reddit also isn't real life, so I doubt the impact is as big as many hope.

How do you prove your statement? What is your evidence?

I don’t get my news from Reddit. You can go on the New York Times today and see them documenting this sentiment globally in an article published this morning

13% with the model changeover isn’t too bad tbh. Been saying for years that if they want to grow they had to have more models. Not 100k models. When you already have the best selling car in the world 2 years in a row it’s hard to just keep selling ever more of them. They need variety if they ever want to grow out of the 1.5 ~ 2 million sales area.

>> Largely due to their retooling of assembly lines to start producing the Model Y. 🤔If that was the case, they would have sold at least as much as they made. They made ~362k cars(lot less than estimated even considering the retooling of factories) They sold ~336k cars. Issue is much deeper than factory retooling.

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Shocker. So you mean Reddit sentiment is not reality? Who would have guessed?

Sales declined 11% in march lol. Competition is rising as a trade war is starting.

The more concerning thing is Q1 2024 was worse than Q1 2023. So in effect they are back to the 2022 numbers which was 310k. And thats with having another model (Cybertruck).  Speaking of that, 12k for S&X&Cybertruck means there is a lot of inventory and factory underutilization.

Sure, but my point isn't news coverage. My point is the severity of negative sentiment. Reddit hive mind says one thing (per usual) and real life is usually several deviations away from that.

13% decrease YoY, this is abysmal. It's Elon. It's amazing how he will take all the credit for the good, but not for the bad. I pose the opposite is true: any success Tesla has had is due to talented and hardworking Tesla engineers and employees while Elon is directly responsible for keeping the company back. He completely flipped the truth and shareholders rewarded him with an absurd payout. Done with this company. I feel awful for the engineers.

They made more vehicles than they sold. This isn’t a manufacturing shortage pal. It’s a demand shortage

Brand new model launch with 0% financing offers. Have to see how it plays out in the coming months to see if it sustained.  The other Chinese domestic brands like BYD and Xpeng are up a lot more.  March was promising but there are still headwinds in China.

Not the person you asked but here is why it is clear that issue is much deeper than factory retooling. If production slow down was the issue, Tesla would have sold at least as much as they were able to produce. They produced 360k cars in Q1. They sold 330k. And production itself was much below estimates. Sales are down across the models. And if you think this was because people didn’t wanna buy the old Model Y while waiting for new car, the old Model Y inventory is almost all gone after heavy discounts. Reduced margins due to heavy discounts is another issue.

Bankwupt part 2.

Month to month sales is a pretty useless metric.

Not a lot of people buy $50k+ cars on a whim. It's probably a more prolonged research process. The "demise of Tesla" is just a label on the downward shift of their stock, which is not represented by sales: [https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+stock&rlz=1C1GCEA\_enUS1024US1024&oq=tesla+stock+&gs\_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDI2MzdqMGoxqAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8](https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+stock&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1024US1024&oq=tesla+stock+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDI2MzdqMGoxqAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) No one knows for sure whether the downward shift in their stock will continued long term or do like it did in 2023 and spike again.

Model Y deliveries didn't start until the first week of March in China. Registration data shows 6k new model Ys that first week. The last week of March had over 15k deliveries. Clearly it took all month to ramp up deliveries. That doesn't necessarily mean they will be smooth sailing from here on out but it is really hard to compare these figures to "normal" when Model Y is nearly 70% of their sales and was ramping production all month.

Tesla’s production exceeds deliveries 56% of the time going back to 2020, pal

Have you gone outside recently?

I traded in two Teslas at the end of February. The Audi dealer said that he had more Tesla trade-ins in February than he has had in the previous five years combined. Probably an exaggeration but the point is that a lot of people who loved Tesla are trading in their cars because of Elon. I am expecting the resale of Teslas to plummet (they are already much cheaper than they were 6 months ago). As the used car prices drop, new sales will suffer until Telsa drops the price of the new cars... Once that happens, the stock price should take a nosedive. I also think it's obvious that a huge portion of the EV lovers in the world are very anti-Elon so they won't be buying new or used Teslas. And the base that Elon is pandering to don't like EVs in general (but you do see some of them buying Telsas just to support Elon). Elon has been a huge net-negative for Tesla in the past 9 months and I expect that trend to continue. Sucks because I really like my Telsas (mu wife and I had been driving them for the past 11 and 9 years respectively).

I believe in the past the extra production numbers could be cars on boats that are being exported and not sold yet? Given retooling started in Q1, maybe its possible these cars got on boats late in Q1?

If they’re retooling why did they sell fewer cars than they made? I smell something fishy here. Could be a plot by Soros and his buddies to undercut DOGE

I think the Model 3 is selling a lot slower than anticipated. Highland refresh goosed the numbers last year, but it's not enough anymore.

There's always a delta between production and deliveries. If I make ~30,000 cars in the last week of the month and can't get them to their destinations until the following week, then those cars were produced, but not delivered. Every quarterly result has a production/delivery delta with deliveries being lower.

I will say that, as /r/Cybertruck moderator doing VIN verifications for admission to the subreddit, I've seen a high 67,000 VIN on a truck delivered within the last two weeks, so they've made at least that many. But it's still too much for some people.

And what about from 2023? Was there just continual growth since 2020 or was there a peak and now a multiyear drop that shows little sign of slowing?

*Every* quarter sees a delta between production and deliveries. You can go look at the previous press releases.

🤦🏻‍♀️ You do realize cars that there were also cars produced in Q4 last year that were delivered to customers this year? Tesla did not just start producing cars in January.

“How mean of Democrats to not by my cars. They are so mean”

I don’t have my head in the sand. I follow papers of record and am active in my community. There’s no shortage of evidence that public sentiment on the brand has severely soured. Most people shopping cars want positive attention, it’s usually not a feature when a brand stoops to the point that suburbanites will yell profanities at a truck owner getting groceries There’s a reason you don’t see other car brands getting political. It’s bad for sales

Model X+ S + CyberTruck sold around 12K vs expected 16K. And these are the only cars with any decent margins. Tesla is about to take huge hit to bottomline too.

I am and it looks like this quarters numbers are BAD. Could be a plot by Sanders and his Goons to take down Elon where it hurts him most

The model changeover is just a limited refresh on the same model Y that I own. This thinking that things aren't so bad is delusional, but to each their own. There are going to be a lot of TSLA retail bag holders when the dust settles.

Down significantly in a quarter where new vehicle sales are up almost 5% YOY. The same quarter where New EV sales are up almost 20%. This is absolutely more than a 'retooling' fade.

It's a new upgraded version of the car you own, also the former best selling car in the world. So yes, when a new version is announced, people tend to not buy the old version. It's already selling well in China.

The new Y is SO much better. Have you even driven one yet? It's night and day. With ride feel and cabin isolation. But I guess if those factors aren't as important to the buyer then yeah it's just a minor change. Just my personal opinion

A huge red flag for the Other Models. 2024Q 1 had 17027 deliveries, with very little CT involvement. 2024Q4 had 23640 deliveries, but 2025Q1 had a big drop to 12881. Assuming a slow and steady decline of MS and MX sales, the CT should be more than making up the majority of the volume. But that doesn't seem to be the case, with anecdotal evidence that there's a large and growing number of unsold CTs

That is a bit dramatic, a 13% drop is minimal in the long run. They still sold plenty of cars . conservative buyers are warming up to the idea of EV. this is probably the bottom of the reputational hit, and excluding any general economic recession tariffs might induce, you can reasonably expect sales to recover from here.

This is such bullshit that you are saying that it's not even funny. He congratulates his engineers at basically every public speaking he does, and even on X. The last speech in Wisconsin was no different. >any success Tesla has had is due to talented and hardworking Tesla engineers and employees while Elon is directly responsible for keeping the company back. Then why any other company in The west still can't make EV profitably? Not even in the gross margin? Why nobody is even close to SpaceX? Or how fast Can has cought up to Chatgpt? >He completely overnight flipped the truth and shareholders rewarded him with an absurd payout. Payout that has been voted twice, has won by a landslide TWICE, and it's for performances done between 2018 and 2021, what happen since then in the future is meaningless from a payout perspective. And his payout it's the best form of payout of any high level C-suite in the planet: absurd compensation for impossible rewards. And I'm quite sure that I will find that you have never had anything with Tesla. Also: there was a factory retooling.

They have project redwood in the pipeline. The question is whether there's a market for it after Elon's antics make half of the country hate his guts.

NO, variety is not the issue. In fact, the gen X, millennials, don't like so much variety but better price for the buck, more **practical** features...

This sounds a bit too optimistic, I’d imagine that the fallout from Elon’s politics will show even further next quarter.  Car sales are up because people are scared of tariffs and they seem to be sitting on a lot of inventory

His accomplishments vaporized , the stock price didnt hold because he utilized a pump up method and not true accomplishments, only grandiose FSD predictions which turned out to be FALSE. He deserves average compensation

Tesla stock has always been overvalued.

Maybe conservative buyers are warming but I doubt most would want a sedan, a bubbly crossover, or a triangle. Rivian, Ford, or maybe Scout will get their money.

Anybody arguing this drop is due to the refreshed model y, remember that the refreshed model 3 came out January of 24, the same quarter last year. Elon is destroying the brand.

Rivian saw 36% decline. Elon effect!

I think the reputation damage might have bottomed out, but the reflection in sales data hasnt fully shown yet since these numbers include a period of time before he’d gone fully active into his new role as chainsaw man. I expect Q2 numbers to be worse in EU and NA than Q1, with a possibility for an increase in China due to the financing offers on the refreshed model Y.

You shouldn’t read too much into a single quarter with so many variables

Retooling is an excuse. The model 3 refresh was this time last year.

Cybertruck had an issue with a piece of trim that probably halted deliveries temporarily

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Q1 2020: Production: 102,672; Deliveries: 88,400 Q2 2020: Production: 82,272; Deliveries: 90,650 Q3 2020: Production: 145,036; Deliveries: 139,300 Q4 2020: Production: 179,757; Deliveries: 180,570 Q1 2021: Production: 180,338; Deliveries: 184,800 Q2 2021: Production: 206,421; Deliveries: 201,250 Q3 2021: Production: 237,823; Deliveries: 241,300 Q4 2021: Production: 305,840; Deliveries: 308,600 Q1 2022: Production: 305,407; Deliveries: 310,048 Q2 2022: Production: 258,580; Deliveries: 254,695 Q3 2022: Production: 365,923; Deliveries: 343,830 Q4 2022: Production: 439,701; Deliveries: 405,278 Q1 2023: Production: 440,808; Deliveries: 422,875 Q2 2023: Production: 479,700; Deliveries: 466,140 Q3 2023: Production: 430,488; Deliveries: 435,059 Q4 2023: Production: 494,989; Deliveries: 484,507 Q1 2024: Production: 433,371; Deliveries: 386,810 Q2 2024: Production: 410,831; Deliveries: 443,956 Q3 2024: Production: 469,828; Deliveries: 462,890 Q4 2024: Production: 459,445; Deliveries: 495,570 Q1 2025: Production: 362,615; Deliveries: 336,681

Q1 2024 also had a disclaimer of sales being bad for retooling the production lines for the 3. But Model Y is a high volume vehicle.

They had the perfect opportunity for that after the Model Y launched. They were the cost leader of EVs with the best margins in the industry. All was set up perfectly to make a more affordable compact car and scale further. Instead they made the Cybertruck because Elon wanted it. In the meantime China and Europe which love smaller EVs had double digit EV growth and Tesla didn’t participate. They can still make one but they missed a golden opportunity.

1% of republicans would consider buying an EV. 22% of democrats would. He's burned his buyers.

I think financially they will be more hit vs these numbers. They really had to give huge discounts to push the inventory.

Tesla Down 30% quarter on quarter as well. Ouch.

The concerning part is how far below guidance they were. Did they not know how long the production lines would be down? Heads should be rolling! Someone at Tesla promised Elon 440k cars and only built 370k!

QQ more bby

Hang on, I thought the recall was only for 46,000 cybertrucks. How many are they known to have made?

So your evidence is speculative and anecdotal?

Not to mention that the EV market is a lot bigger now than two years ago. China and Europe had double digit growth for EV sales. That alone should have lifted them over 2022/23 numbers.

Rivian's only cars are the R1 platform that retails from anywhere from 80-100k. They don't have a car that appeals and sells to the masses yet, and their biggest market is LA which was hit pretty bad. I don't think Tesla has an excuse.

Last year q1 was the model 3 changover, so the changeover argument doesn't hold up very well.

So what’s the answer to my question, can you do the math? Is the trend since the start of 2023 going up or down?

Agreed. Especially with the Model 3 incentives recently with very low % APR financing and the $300/mo lease deals.

Unfortunately, if he is ever forced out, he will declare war on the company and it will be ugly. Even now, he's said that if he is not given more ownership control of the company, critical AI developments will be handled by his own AI company. His conflicts of interest are well known and the board of directors never does anything about it because it's just full of his friends and family.

Only in Fremont . Shanghai did it in september

It's a blending of things. The protests absolutely had an impact, as well as people trading in their Teslas, inflating the used market for Tesla vehicles, enabling some people to pivot to a cheaper "barely used" model.

I had a Model Y Launch reserved. It would've been my 4th Tesla over 10 years, starting with a Model S P85D. I canceled, and they basically wouldn't take no for an answer. They texted, called several times, asked if I was sure and they "put it on pause." The VIN sat in my account for about two and a half weeks, and it finally dropped off yesterday after a final call "just making sure." If they can't match a refreshed Model Y with a new owner in three weeks, that seems like a problem independent of retooling. These used to be flying off the "shelves" faster than they could make them. And I'm in a location where there are Teslas *everywhere*. Probably one of the top few counties in the country for the brand.

The NHTSA is an American governing body, so they're only going to announce a recall on Cybertrucks sold in the United States. They're not going to announce a recall for trucks sold in Mexico or Canada, which is likely where the delta is. We don't know how many trucks were made, but I can assure you that I have seen a high 67,000 VIN, so likely that many.

Q1 is almost always lower than Q4

So the highest possible political / logistical drop in "demand" for Tesla is only 6.26% for 3/Y and 25% for the S/X/Cybertruck based on the difference in production vs deliveries. S/X/Cybertruck are pricey and super low volume, need discounts soon. Meets my expected drop in production for the 3/Y since the Y was in the middle of the transition :)

Keep in mind that the launch edition Tesla has a premium on it that a lot of people don't want to pay to start with, so I can see people not wanting to be matched to that. Honestly, I expect a number of launch editions to just get rebadged and sold as regular Model Ys.

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Cybertruck had stop sale because of recall as well

Anyone who is going to argue that Elon is not destroying the brand cannot be reasoned with.

S/X will likely never drop in price. Their whole shtick is that they're intentionally expensive help finance the Model 3/Y. The Cybertruck needs to drop to, at least, $60,000, I think, for people to jump on it en masse.

The problem with the S/X/Cybertruck, S/X in particular is no $7500 anymore, high price. And the Cybertruck imo is still too expensive -- I want one but it's out of my price range. I imagine we will be seeing discounts and low interest rate offers soon for those.

Q1 started lower cars in inventory than last year

no it’s not

Why build more cars when no one is buying them?

This sub: sales are dropping 50%!!! Deliveries 330k. Aaaahhhhhh Elon destroyed the brand sales are down 10%

Oh honey. The bottom? Hold the world's collective beer and wait for it.

(Shhh this is what I'm trying to get OP this ask)

Did you forget, S/X drop in price all the time, they were just super cheap compared to historical prices like a month or two ago. The 3/Y are self profitable. The S/X are super low volume cars and have no effect on the 3/Y, no need to cover any costs. They could cancel both, they just do them for fun.

I understand, but this is also an area where I see quite a few Performance badges and a lot of FSD. In my neighborhood alone, two people bought a Model S this past year, which is rare. As someone who has followed the company for this long--and an early investor--this is still a concern for me. Rebadging seems tricky with all the Launch extras and interior badging. It's not just removing the badge on the back. But they can easily remove FSD and Acceleration Boost. I'm shocked they had no buyers.

What, no CT numbers? I assume most of that 17k "Other vehicles" is CT...Can't wait to see how well that one does second quarter, considering most of the 1st qtr sales were "in" before Elon became radioactive. The CT might float - but it could sink Tesla.

[Here you go](https://sherwood.news/tech/tesla-known-by-nearly-all-americans-but-overwhelming-majority-wont-buy-one/)—Tesla has the second worst brand, with only Buick performing worse. I didn’t even realize Buick was still around. And there’s nothing speculative about these sales numbers.

Nevertheless the factory capacity is for 250,000 units per year. I don’t see a path to ramp to that.

Lol nope

I don’t think the capacity is there yet. But it will be a difficult path to 250k for sure it’s simply too expensive

It's ranked 19/34. I take it you don't know there is an arrow on the chart you presented that shows another 15 brands behind Tesla. XD Hard to take people like you seriously tbh. Now if you want to prove brand damage you need multiple of these polls taken across several different years so you can prove a trend. Edit: Also please reconcile your "poll" with real US market share/sales. [https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-automakers-by-u-s-market-share/](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-automakers-by-u-s-market-share/) How is it Tesla sells more cars in the USA than companies which rank higher on your poll? Tesla sells more cars in the USA than BMW, Mercedes, and Mazda despite ranking lower than them in that poll. It sells as many cars as Subaru even though 20% of people "would consider owning" a Subaru vs 9% for Tesla. This proves your poll is meaningless and it doesn't refelect real consumer opinions. There is clearly some kind of inherent bias in the way the poll was constructed to conducted.

They managed to reduce 3/Y production only 13% to launch the new highest volume Model Y, **congratulations are due to the entire Tesla team!** It's all up hill ramp from here. Especially with new models on the near horizon. Also only 6.26% of the produced 3/Y were unsold in the quarter which means a tiny drop in the bucket of reduced "demand" which is more likely just logistic lag in shipping to buyers.

This is the same company that sold performance models as long range models back in 2019. I've no doubt that Tesla can sell these as "production mistakes" when the time comes

They lump Cybertrucks into the "other" category, along with the S and X. They've done that since they released it.

Tesla China is basically making $0 on all model Y and model 3 sales. They have no margin and that's where the bulk of their sales is coming from.

Agreed, 0% on the 3, still have the 1K down lease for it. They already released the Y LAST quarter and I assume today they announce all versions go on sale. They are hurting bad for sales and trying all levers to generate them. Maybe they should make FSD transferable forever (once) to create more demand, that is my guess of what happens.

wrong

Oh, I know. I have a Performance with the same motors as a Long Range. I'm just saying the interior "Launch" parts on the door sill and charger dock, for example, will be a little trickier to replace than just a software switch.

Tesla's P/E ratio is currently 129. Microsoft is 31. Google is 20. If Tesla continues the year with deliveries down 10% or more and lack of growth then P/E ratio will collapse.

Who says they'll replace them? Just mark them down, take the hit, and move on with life. The launch edition was just an attempt to see if they could reproduce the money grab that was the Foundation Series anyways. "Pay to be the first" with perks.

this is a VERY hopium take. They were already pulling a LOT of levers (0% for the 3, low downpayment lease) and this was with all cars but the new Y (but they did have launch mode). This isn't going to get better anytime soon. I would bet this trend continues until Elon steps down

Smoke and mirrors.

Conservatives aren’t buying Tesla, Elon is grifting to a party that will never switch to electric

It’s Soros fault obviously. Soros is paying people not to buy his car. Despite the government paying people to buy his car. Or something.

This stock would plummet if he left. And his shareholders know it. It’s a meme stock propped up by people who don’t know shit who think he’s a genius engineer super scientist.

Devil's advocate, was also a negative growth quarter, y sells more than 3 so it makes sense it would be even worse to take the y lines down.

Rivian is not an established car company, and no one acts like they are.

Q1 is historically the worst quarter so it's not really what should be looked at.

They hide the CT numbers by combining with S and X. I'm betting they're really bad based on the sheer number of inventory CT's available.

Can you cite any actual evidence that the sentiment is not as bad as it looks?

Musk made Tesla great with the help of some amazing engineering, he is also the reason Tesla is now on a path to shortly die. Just because he was a beer gain before he absolutely killed his image doesn't mean he still is.

As Buffet says, "A brand is a promise". Elon is synonymous with the Tesla brand. He's broken the social contract with his customer base and is now paying the price.  This is only the tip of the iceberg. I don't see Q2 improving at all and frankly would bet on a QoQ delivery decline.

It's hard to tease retooling apart from economic uncertainty causing a general pullback on major purchases and Elon's radioactive politics.

There is no Tesla without Elon

Confirms what many have predicted and indeed observed: Elon has destroyed the reputation of the brand, probably irreparably.

I am very critical of Elon's political activities and wish he had never gotten into this. However, it is also a fact that without him, Tesla's stock wouldn't have anything close to the valuation it does, even after falling close to 50%. Tesla has always been a "story stock" based on the belief that Elon is a genius who will continue to deliver market disruptions, like in self-driving. Without him, this belief goes away and Tesla becomes a more "normal" car company, and normal car companies have a P/E closer to 10, not 130. Thee big institutional investors know this and will continue to back him.

Elon should absolutely get the credit for building a successful car company from the ground up - something that had not happened in a century. His leadership was instrumental in making that happen. that said, he is actively ruining all of that success, and should be removed from involvement with the company if the goal is to have Tesla retake its leading role with EV's.

Then there will soon be no Tesla with Elon.

and the stock is up? why?

Losing around 40% percent since he "took office" about 10 weeks ago is not a plummet?

Rivian deliveries down 36% even though Elon is supposedly driving customers to competition, and if you saw the average pay packet for engineers are Tesla including stock grants you would probably find they don't need your sympathy....

Google actually has a revenue generating cybercab business. Tesla doesn't, but theirs is valued at 2 trillion dollars by Cathie Wood.

I’m surprised there are still people who want to buy a Cybertruck

A cab business that is insanely expensive to scale and consumers can’t buy their cars for themselves.

Yeah this is kind of my concern. If all conservatives actually buy Teslas then it will be more than fine but doubt that will happen and won’t offset the loss sales to dems

Inventory discounts were only on the legacy model Y to make room for launch series model y.

Tesla literally told us what was going to happen in Q1. Why is everyone surprised? All I could see in this sub was how bad q1 was gonna be. There are legitimate reasons for the sales numbers being down and nobody wants to believe them. The brand is damaged but not beyond repair. All signs I can see point to growth and the broader retail market is starting to recognize that as well as institutional investors.

Why would a consumer ever buy and operate their own self-driving cab? That business model never made sense to me. The only reason Uber and Lyft work is because labor is still a limiting factor in the car-sharing business. When everything is automated, how could an individual consumer possibly compete with a scaled business? especially after paying the platform tax to the marketplaces.

Incorrect.

Model Y was not available until the last month of the quarter. So I still think it is valid to put a good portion of retooling. Now this excuse won't fly at all during Q2.

Q2 will tell us for sure, but yes - they didn't even sell what they produced this quarter. (345K produced vs 324K sold).

Putting aside it's looks - it's got a lot of utility for some buyers.

There's the stock, and there's the company. Tesla without Elon might hurt the stock price, butTesla with Elon hurts the actual bottom line.

Expecting much worse..

Did you notice that it wasn't IBM or Compaq or Gateway or Dell or any of the other thousand PC manufacturers that made a fortune from the PC revolution, it was Microsoft?

What special amount of utility does it have compared to competitors?

It’s still valued based on Elon hype. It just no longer has the “Elon + POTUS” hype valuation. It has about 90% to fall to be priced among automotive peers.

It’s not as bad as so many people were initially making out to be. I recall seeing articles reporting 70% drops in various countries around the world and in Europe. There were polls of over 90% of people in Germany and America saying they wouldn’t consider buying a Tesla. You’d expect deliveries to be down 50% if they were believed. In Norway, apparently Model Y had dropped to the only the 6th or 7th best selling car in the country. But what people don’t know is that the Model Y is already back on top at first place. The Model 3 is still at only 6th or 7th place, which gives a lot weight to the theory that a major reason sales dropped in the first place was just that people were waiting for the Mode Y refresh. Now, there’s no denying that Tesla stock is not as a valuable as the prices its currently being traded. But, if you take it car company, what’s happening with Elon is only a very minor impact, and Tesla is going to continue to produce cars that people want for the foreseeable future.

they did ramp down Model Y in Q4 last year. And they actually delivered 35k more than they produced in Q4 last year. Meaning they probably sold every car they made in Q4 and sold any inventory.

and... the stock is up +3% today.

Ignoring the US for a moment, it would also be plausible to assume they’ve got growing problems in Europe and Canada and Australia that are universal across the countries. I wonder how heavy the China demand will be after a quarter or two of sustained Model Y refresh sales…

Q1 of *any* year is a bad time to sell cars. All the projections and such were armchair experts looking at the data for the point in time that they were in, not historical data

Oh you mean like the successful war he’s running against Open AI? Everyone acts like he’s a 5D chess playing mastermind at beating his opponents, but when it comes to a playing field where all things considered are more or less level, he’s not really crushing anyone.

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The liberals going insane because Elon helps fight corruption. That he has so much pushback looking at what the gov uses our taxes for is proof he is effective. Which obviously he is as a dude with a space rocket company.

That's why the initial deliveries of the Launch Model Y include all the optional upgrades and FSD (in the USA). All these options dramatically increase the profit margins of the vehicles delivered which is intended to help offset the discounts as well as fixed costs, and lower production rates due to the ramp up of new production. Wall St. will likely look past negativity for these reasons and look towards guidance. The new Model Y is supposed to be easier and less costly to manufacture.

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I want Elon out (and in court) as much as anybody. That said, I’m with you on that point. I really enjoyed buying my 2018 Model 3 from a company that did forward-looking things like allowing users to save onboard camera recordings and pushing more advanced ADAS features. Credit where credit is due, but mf has fallen off the deep-end.

Looks like we got a real Sherlock Holmes here, wow.

If they want to own a car that can drive itself? I didn’t mean that they would operate it as a cab for others, although i could see some people wanting to opt in for that if there’s enough incentive.

I would buy one for sure if I had the cash left over for a fun car. And I love its protection feature. In modern times with all the radical terrorists protesting everywhere on streets its a great extra safety net for you and your kids.

Tesla sells twice as many Model Ys as Model 3s. And Tesla didn't change over production of the Model 3 at all four factories simultaneously like they did with the new Y. They started in China first, then the USA afterwards. So the changeover wasn't all in the same quarter.

And Apple?

Tesla very rarely sells more cars in a quarter than they produce. If you were to look at all previous quarters you would see this doesn't happen very often, even while sales have been growing QoQ and YoY. So it's really a meaningless metric.

The dude is the only reason the company was a success, the only person on the planet that made EV's cool. The only dude that forced an near impossible to break into car industry to change over night. Its really sad how honest and intelligent people are always hunted down like witches even in modern times.

It is time for Tesla to offer more, i.e. enhanced Autopilot as the default Autopilot

Cybertruck had an issue with the trim around the windows which required a physical recall. Based on video at the factory (which shows new Cybertrucks exiting the factory with protective plastic where the trim should be), i'm assuming they paused the deliveries of new Cybertruck temporarily until they fix the issue. That's probably why "Other production" was 5k higher than deliveries. My guess is mose of that are Cybertrucks waiting for a fix.

I'm not.

He's smarter than Steve Jobs and look what apple is now thanks to him. He forced an entire industry to change, one of the biggest and most powerful and corrupt, and people still doubt how smart he is. If its just the engineers and scientists, how come other electric cars sucked balls until Elon come along? Ford have no scientists or engineers or something? Germany neither?

Still up 2000% depending on when you joined in. Obviously the haters who joined late and are bitter about not having been onboard when TSLA exploded will keep on hating.

Well and the fact that TSLA is the only company with a realistic chance of full self-driving. That's tech is worth more than all car companies combined.

Yeah good point, China would be interesting they seem to be more apolitical and may buy if it’s the best deal/car available

Bunch of terrorists. Hope they get 25 years. I would laugh so much.

Garbage opinion

I've looked at the F150 lightning, Chevy Silverado EV and Rivian and the Cybertruck has features and quality that are just unrivaled currently at the price point. I feel I would be wasting my money on them until those are resolved. Cybertruck pros I've found: \- Way better sound system \- Much lower weight and more aerodynamic means less energy per mile \- Higher charging speed means quicker road trips Rivian would be my second choice at the moment. I find the F150 lightning's suspension setup is too bulky in comparison.

Their US sales decreased by -2%. Tesla bulls (again, not me) can just hand-wave that away as model Y switchover and general economic headwinds. If Reddit was correct, you'd expect like -50%.

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If Tesla successfully launches Robotaxis in Austin, SF, and many other cities by the end of the year (as Elon has stated)... then the P/E multiple could go much higher. I don't think you understand just how much money a network of 1 million robotaxis could earn (based of actual comparisons of rates paid to Uber/Lyft drivers). The most expensive part of a taxi's cost of operations is the driver's salary followed by gas/maintenance. If you eliminate the driver and go fully electric the profit margins are like 90%+. This is essentially what is partially priced into Tesla's P/E multiple. I say partially because if it were fully priced in Tesla would have an even higher P/E multiple. But Wall St. and main street investors are still mostly cautious on the idea and would rather wait and see before committing (normal tbh). Nonetheless other investors will assign a probability of it happening and give it some premium based on that probability.

I appreciate the points you made, but I do wonder how appreciated those Pros are for a typical high-end truck buyer.

It is truly amazing how a company that used to be known for moving fast and innovating has completely blown up that reputation in 5 years. BYD is introducing new models constantly and GM & Hyundai-Kia-Genesis all of a sudden have 20+ EVs between them across all segments. With mass market automakers finding their groove with established EV platforms and finally turning a profit, I don’t see what Tesla’s next move even is. You can bet that mass market EV pickups of all sizes and minivans will be coming out in more volume next, and then when Toyota and Honda finally enter the EV market en masse, it’s going to be a really tough spot for a company that effectively makes only 2 (related) cars.

They need to offer a nerfed version of FSD as Autopilot. Well, more than that. For people with HW2.5 cars, or below, they need to just release "all available features" for them, since they're not developing for that computer anymore. Let them get all that Legacy Autopilot can do on HW2.5. For people with HW3.0 and above, it should be a nerfed version of FSD that can only do lane keeping.

Yes, thank god for his compassion for people. There is a lot of evil and hatred in the world. Its not easy to fight against that.

Fair question - I was saying it has a lot of utility in Tesla's lineup, it can do a lot more than even an X utility-wise. But since you asked.. Vs. Rivian - the company isn't at risk of running out of cash anytime soon. The Lightning and Cybertruck are also significantly bigger - interior and truck bed. R1T is not full size. Vs. Ford - it's significantly more efficient, a longer bed, and more real world range. +CT Air suspension useful for some scenarios. More durable (exterior) than both - not afraid of a shopping cart. Obviously R1T and Lightning have their own advantages too.

GM sold 13 Bolts last quarter, they're doing great!

Damn, that's a big miss.

Fair, though they sold more than they produced in Q4 2024 and all of 2024: [https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-fourth-quarter-2024-production-deliveries-and-deployments](https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-fourth-quarter-2024-production-deliveries-and-deployments) I think a healther market (for all reasons) would have had them sell even more of their 345K production. On the flip side - it looks like they moved every old Y already.

I can't think of a single product where I went from "I would not consider any competitor for my next purchase" to "I would rank this as my last choice when considering my next purchase" the way that Tesla did.

> Well and the fact that TSLA is the only company with a realistic chance of full self-driving. That's tech is worth more than all car companies combined. I won't argue the merits of any company, but the problem here is that Tesla is the only company that thinks this. Nearly every autonomy analyst currently sees Waymo as the clear leader in autonomy, with the acknowledgement that technology moves fast. I'd also offer the view is that if/when L5 autonomy ever comes to fruition, it will be highly commoditized and low margin almost from the start. Waymo still doesn't make money and they've been offering paid rides for years now. If Tesla can somehow make L5 work work with just cameras, it won't be a year before it's been reverse engineered by AI and replicated by everyone else.

Huh interesting, I cancelled mine and literally heard nothing from them which I found surprising. But maybe it’s because of my strongly worded paragraph explaining why I was cancelling…

Where is the /s ?

And yet they were steep discounts. If they couldn’t sell without those that was a bad sign.

Not even the most bearish estimates were expecting anything like what you describe. This is a bad day for Tesla. The window to right this ship is getting smaller by the day.

> Anybody arguing this drop is due to the refreshed model y, remember that the refreshed model 3 came out January of 24 Yes, we remember that the refreshed Model 3 came out at the beginning of the quarter, and the refreshed Model Y came out at the end of the quarter. Model 3 Q1 2024: 3 good months with a refreshed version. Model Y Q1 2025: 2 bad months while people were waiting for the new model + 1 good month with a refreshed version. Your point was?

Yes they did sell old Model Y inventory finally, but at steep discounts. Margins were barely anything.

Refreshed Model Y was announced at the end of a quarter, but they didn't start deliveries until the last week or so. Any Model Y deliveries up until around the last couple weeks have all been "What was left" of the old Model Y design.

Agreed! Sign this to help make it happen https://elonout.com

Yes it has happened a few times, but very rarely.

> - Much lower weight and more aerodynamic means less energy per mile Help me understand this point. Curb weights: - F-150 Lightning: 6,015 (Std Range), 6,361 (Extended Range), 6,855 lbs (Platinum) - Cybertruck: 6,634 lbs (dual motor) - 6,898 lbs (tri motor) - R1T: 6,900 - 7,200 - Silverado is absurd, so it loses here. Coefficient of drag: - R1T: 0.30 - Silverado: 0.331 - Cybertruck: 0.34 - F-150: 0.44 So it's middle of the pack on weight and it's the 3rd worst of its peers for aerodynamics. And the Silverado EV is faster charging, with the R1T having a flatter charging curve than the Cybertruck [and adding more range after 30 minutes](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-tesla-cybertruck-vs-rivian-r1t-vs-ford-f-150-lightning-comparison-test-review/). So the sound system is nice.

treatment square thought full soup flowery strong file trees rhythm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

And none of the points but perhaps the sound system are true, so there's also that.

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On rumors that Musk is leaving doge. [https://x.com/DeItaone/status/1907454133180703097](https://x.com/DeItaone/status/1907454133180703097)

Touch grass

I always wondered why protesters don't go to NASA to protest SpaceX dragon flights. Or Neurolink to publicly shame those who make a political statements by using the neural interface just to have a better life. Pff. Cheap sold outs, I say /s

ah, still seems crazy. At least there's \*some\* rationale.

Yeah, I think the rivian / cybertruck are closer as far as drag goes, especially if you factor in both the cybertruck's tapered slope and smaller frontal area due to its lower 75" vs 78" (rivian) height. Bjorn weighed the Ford F-150 Lightning SR he drove in at 6658 lbs so Cybertruck may be the lightest weight. Cybertruck also does support 350 kW with the smaller pack, should be faster or at least equal to the silverado charging on compatible chargers.

Imo BYD will push Tesla out of the market in China, they're just so damn cheap..

Its not my fault you turned out this way.

The R1T is not a full size pickup. The Cybertruck is and weighs less.

So we agree on my point?

The S and X are very dated models now too which doesn't help.

Grok is actually very good. At least for sysadmin stuff it seems to be better than ChatGPT.

> critical AI developments will be handled by his own AI company. So? Everyone and their grandma is developing AI tooling right now. I don't think it's a given that there would be no other options for AI support other than an Elon company. Grok doesn't even think he's great at it

How is the stock up?

You trust an Analyst over the company that changed an entire industry? Where were the analysts before Musk telling us how EV's are about to explode? Why were they all silent before he came along? How many cars does Waymo have on the street? And what is your reverse-engineered claim based on? You can't reverse engineer anything without having direct access to the AI's library of information Tesla has the biggest AI training Network and outside of China (because I don't know what China has) with the governments approval to use their FSD software for training. What does Waymo have, exactly? Besides claims from "experts"?

> if you factor in both the cybertruck's tapered slope That's already accounted for in the coefficient of drag. > should be faster or at least equal to the silverado charging on compatible chargers. Eh? Silverado holds >200kw through 75%. CT doesn't even come close.

I mean they haven't produced Bolts in 15 months since they discontinued the car in Dec 2023, so they definitely aren't critical lol.

He definitely is, but in more than one way: - Obviously his horrible politics But also: - No vision for the future as a car manufacturer. He's been focusing on weird passion projects that are either a flop (CyberTruck), stuck in a dead end after investing tons of money for R&D (Roadster, Truck) or will take years to MAYBE pay off (Autonomous driving, Robot). While other manufacturer are flooding the market with EVs in all shapes and forms, Tesla still has only a truck, 2 SUVs and 2 Sedans. No hatchback, no van, ...

Tesla is the least likely of all the self driving companies to offer full self driving. Their hardware can’t even handle rain. /model Y hw4 owner

This is a great point.

Probably in response to a report this morning that Elon's taking a step back from government

It’s exactly where it was 4 years ago. Meanwhile my entire portfolio has been exploding during that time.

Maybe he’s intelligent, maybe he’s not. But he’s definitely not honest.

Compassion? From the chainsaw guy who thinks empathy is a weakness? You have got to be trolling.

Tesla is a car company that is selling less cars. Tesla as a car is not at all like an iPhone. Everyone wanted an iPhone. Most people will not ever buy a Tesla.

Oh shoot, looks like all Cybertrucks are going to get an OTA for V4 cabinets for 500kW charging so I guess there's another pro \*shrug\* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7PsJWApdeU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7PsJWApdeU) First sites with V4 Cabinets are going into permitting now. First openings in 2025

Is it generating positive margin, or just revenue? It costs riders more than Uber, so the TAM will remain limited.

Amen. I just bought a Ford Maverick Hybrid over another Tesla. I don’t think I’d take a Tesla if they sold me one for $1 at this point because I don’t want my dollar going to Elon.

Model 3 sales are vastly smaller, and the retooling in China was done the previous year. Your theory is unsound.

> What does Waymo have, exactly? Besides claims from "experts"? I mean, Waymo has a 5-year old functioning paid L4 autonomous driving fleet. I'm not sure what else you are looking for. At the *very best*, this model is what Tesla is aiming to replicate in August. Tesla has a L2 system that has been "months away" from L5 since 2017. At some point people need to effectively process reality vs promises. Tesla did a phenomenal job bringing EVs to the mainstream and changing the auto industry. That doesn't have any bearing on whether they will succeed in self-driving.

News is Musk may be leaving DOGE to focus on his businesses. TSLA stock is totally unpredictable.

You're breaking things into months when we only have quarter data, so the logic is flawed. Q1 2024 also saw a decrease in sales, but Tesla sells less Model 3 than Model Y, so it wouldn't have been hit as hard.

I went from a “never would I buy another car that isn’t a Tesla” to “never would I buy another Tesla” entirely because of Elon. I doubt I’m alone.

I'm looking for numbers. How many every day working class people drive Waymo L4. What I'm looking for is ANYTHING that isn't just "Waymo does this so well according to analysts" Apple changed the phone industry. Where is apple now despite the competition having long since caught up with any tech Apple has or even better.

You also gotta take in to account that they didn't even sell the 336k they claim to have sold. They just defrauded Canada by lying about their sales numbers and faking rebates in the country.

Most people can't afford a Tesla that's the real issue. Tsla is also selling full sell driving promises. And that's what people believe in. Backed up by the guy that changed the entire car industry and space industry and had his hand in AI industry. I don't know why I should trust someone else.

Fixed so they can go sit on lots. Tons of unused CTs at the service centers.

Tell me if corruption does not deserve the chainsaw. Lets not talk about what Doge is working on. But lets just assume its corruption for a fact, you would not want it to be metaphorically chainsawed? If you believe the money is well spend that the government uses fair enough. That's your belief. But I doubt you wouldn't want the chainsaw applied to what you consider to be corrupt. Your kind of people burn cars and attack innocent car owners, yet complain about a chainsaw metaphor? Who is trolling here?

Tesla for the win. Market starting to understand it is so much more than an automotive company. Tesla will be the largets company in the world within the next decade.

And I agree with you, nobody is honest. But he is the most honest I can get to look at what the government does with my taxes. Who would you want to look at the tax books? Not super smart nerds? I mean I'm a liberal, I'm open to compromise, suggest me who else should look at it? Internal government employees?

It's wild that people like you truly believe this Robotaxi business is anything but vaporware. This guy could sell you anything eh.

Yeah. It wasn't long ago that if you didn't have your shit together for your 3-day pickup window the car was unapologetically moved to the next buyer.

I was planning to get a Juniper Model Y but now I’m looking at the Nissan Ariya and Hyundai Ioniq.

I'm replying to you mentioning GM has 20+ EVs; it doesn't look like they're selling very well.

It’s also somehow more scratch resistant (nice), but also more prone to be scratched (vandalism).

Definitely a consideration for people using any of these trucks for actual work. I'd personally guess that number is small, but haven't seen any stats. Worth pointing out the weight is mostly driven by the battery, which for R1T max pack battery is 141 kWh vs. 123 kWh for Cybertruck, with corresponding range differences. None of the 3 win in all categories.

Tesla is still at the top of my list for a car to buy, the only issue is the monies hah

Except that they still sold 90% of what they produced. Which is average for them. Therefore, production being down is the only significant cause of low sales. Why would they produce less for any reason other than model Y retooling?

Or heavy snow or heavy fog. Model S HW4 with FSD

I will not buy another Tesla while Elon runs the show. I sold my stock in January in anticipation of this happening. What he’s doing is single handedly destroying the brand. He needs to be ousted yesterday.

Tesla was built by hundreds of thousands of early EV adopters like you and me. I'm getting solar and if it weren't for Elon would happily add a powerwall for home backup but with him meddling in Wisconsin elections I can't even.

> don’t want my dollar going to Elon. But why though?

Because the numbers have never been especially impressive from an automotive earnings perspective.

In other news BYD is offering its "God's Eye" advanced driver-assistance system (ADAS) on most of its models, including the Seagull, for free.

How many people have been hurt by protesters because they weren't driving a truck with hardened glass?

I don't think they are anywhere close to driverless robotaxis. It has to operate with 0 mistakes all the time. Their current hardware will never be able to do that and future hardware won't either without lidar or similar.

How many people use Cybertrucks to haul enough stuff for that to matter? Very, very few I would guess

They definitely need to sell more cars than this to make it work.

Keep drinking the koolaid bro.

Oh, I dunno, maybe it's the systematic dismantling of our government and role as a leader in the free world? Perhaps it's the illegal tampering with state elections? The man has become a monster with no redeeming qualities and an absolutely vast amount of influence.

Someone please think of poor Elon :(

Time for Tesla to offer dumb cruise control instead of Autopilot.

I think it is much more likely that Musk has destroyed the reputation of Musk. If he were to leave Tesla...completely...that brand could recover.

One might hope, but he seems to command considerable control of the board members.

At least have the option for dumb or adaptive cruise. My old truck could do it.

> The model changeover is just a limited refresh on the same model Y that I own. Demonstrably false.

So only a 50% TAM?

Changeover happened in Shanghai in 2023, not 2024.

[CITATION NEEDED]

Great men that sacrifice their free time for the good of humanity do deserve respect. I know it can feel sad when nobody even knows who you are and never said thank you because you never done anything but its no excuse to fill yourself with hate.

Being against vandalism and attacking citizens just because they happen to own a product of a person you hate is drinking koolaid? Just remember, sometimes we hate because in reality we hate ourselves, seeking help is ok. Its never too late to improve your life instead of sinking deeper into a hate-filled mindset.

> This is absolutely more than a 'retooling' fade. Has anyone actually done the math on this? Tesla was making 20k Teslas per week. They shutdown the Model Y lines for several weeks world wide - and they can't ramp back up to full capacity in one week. A drop of 80-100k in production should be expected.

Model 3 was not retooled worldwide in the same quarter. VERY different story with Model Y, also Model Y has more sales.

> Google actually has a revenue generating cybercab business They are losing tons of money of that business and are no where near close to making money...

Yeah, currently Musk controls the board and owns a major portion of the stock.

Rivian down 36% while Tesla is only down 13%, while refreshing literally the most popular car in the world... an only 13% drop is pretty remarkable.

* Model Y is the best selling vehicle * Model 3 was not retooled worldwide in a single quarter. Go home you're drunk.

16 so far. 1 possible fatality.

Def this.

> systematic dismantling of our government and role as a leader in the free world? Making the government more efficient is not a "dismantling" >Perhaps it's the illegal tampering with state elections? Having an opinion and paying people to sign a petition is not illegal tampering. Feel free to change the law, but it's not illegal. >The man has become a monster with no redeeming qualities and an absolutely vast amount of influence. Elon is one of the greatest humans of all time. Get off reddit.

Retail analysts were guessing around 350k, actual was 336k. The financial analysts are idiots. Most of them never adjusted after Q4 when Tesla said they'd shut down Model Y for the refresh. Also lots of people are waiting for new Model Y before buying, so there is some osborne effect. I predict Q2 will smash Q2 2024.

Oh my - that 17k number is production. Deliveries just over 12k. And the Sh!t didn't hit the fan until February, so there's one good month in this report. Oooouch. Second quarter will be interesting.

they didn’t change over all the model three lines globally at the same time

No, intentionally pissing off half the country is a garbage marketing technique. You can disagree with me all you like, but objectively, alienating half the customer base is a bad decision and tied to Elon.

The headline "Model Y no longer the world's best selling vehicle" is coming soon, and when it does, I fear it will accelerate the decline.

X) Doubt

You literally cannot buy anything but the top level trim on the new Model Y in the US. They have not even finished ramping back up to production, rumors are there are a lot of preorders and people waiting for the lower priced trims. Model Y will be fine

Uh, because it was an old model. Hardly the “bad sign” you’re attempting to fear monger over.

The Model Y, Tesla’s best selling model, had its production line shut down for several weeks. Why in the world would people act like the sky is falling based on these numbers when we know production was down??

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye!!!

So model 3 dropped thirty percent in sales during first two months of the quarter in Europe because it’s an “old model” too?

Do you have a link to a report of some kind?

That would be an issue if they had sold all of their cars, but decreased production doesn’t seem to have slowed sales.

Citation needed. If anything, this shows how screwed Tesla are. If Waymo, who started testing on public roads 16 years ago, are still not making money, and there are other self-driving companies already operating in other countries, it looks like Tesla have completely missed the bus (no pun intended).

Indeed. But I was talking about the IBM PC compatible industry.

I'm sure it's not profitable yet. But the fact that they are successfully charging a premium over Uber suggests the TAM is bigger than Uber.

Key point - "in the US." Tesla is now hated in every major foreign market except China - and it's losing that too because Chinese cars now have better batteries and charging.

Honest question, do you drive a Tesla with FSD? Except for last 50 feet issues and boneheaded navigation from the mapping, it’s about perfect. And my car has prevented *three* accidents for me. They are not as far as you think.

xAI started 8 years later and is nearly at parity... valuations are also catching up. now it is xAI $80B vs OAI $300B 2 years ago it was at a $1B vs $29B

Most Democrat voters are centrists and don't give two shits about any of this.

What is the Q1 results compared to Q1 of 2024?

No it doesn't. Not even Waymo operates with 0 mistakes. You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm just looking at FSD videos and the progress they've made over the years. It keeps improving and if they continue to improve then it will become a reality. I find it wild that people like you don't understand that.

I guess google hasn't been your friend. Considering it's all over every news source.

> and it's losing that too because Chinese cars now have better batteries and charging. They sold more cars in Q1 2025 than Q1 2024, despite shutting down for 3 weeks and taking 3 weeks to ramp up. > Tesla is now hated in every major foreign market Anecdotal and mostly a liberal media narrative. There was a publication that had to do a rectraction because it turned out 70% of their respondants would still buy a Tesla. Kind of fits generally that only about 25-30% of people believe in the sensational media

> Citation needed. Lol... they aren't making a penny. Do you have a citation that says they are making money? They've poured billions into this, and recent estimates puts their deprecation costs at $1/mile. They cannot make money at that rate. > If anything, this shows how screwed Tesla are. If Waymo, who started testing on public roads 16 years ago, are still not making money Tesla is a fundamentally different business model, you can't really compare the two. The fact that you're comparing their costs structures shows you're kind of an idiot.

The vaporware drives me around pretty flawlessly, so it’s easy to be sold on it.

1. We do have monthly data from many markets. 2. I don't understand why you focus so hard on the "month" part of my comment while completely ignoring what my post is about. So I will repeat the very first sentence from that post, and add some bold marking to help you out: > Yes, we remember that the refreshed Model 3 came out **at the beginning of the quarter**, and the refreshed Model Y came out **at the end of the quarter**. Do you disagree or agree to this statement?

I value your opinion.

We'll see when q2 numbers come out. For the record I will own two Teslas, so I'm not exactly biased against Tesla.

My next car will likely be a Tesla, kind of depends on my landlord. I also kind of like my car with 3x rows, so I'm not sure I want to get rid of that yet.

IMO this data is too recent for the effect to be fully noticeable yet. Q2 will be interesting.

Good thing they're just ramping up from here, so production will jump up, but the question is will demand remain to buy up all the produced vehicles or will they have to drop prices significantly, making EVs priced on par with ICE cars all of a sudden for the first time?

The cybertruck outsells all other electric trucks.

I mean the more rides they give, the more money they lose. Waymo is structurally unprofitable and that’s why they’re trying to reduce costs.

It's a change in consumer demand for Tesla

Apple was fine after Jobs died.

Doesn’t seem like that’s the case any longer. Ford sold 7,187 Lightnings in Q1 and Tesla sold 12,881 S, X and Cybertrucks combined. Pretty obvious the model has failed after the brief few months it took to meet the waitlist demand.

He's running out of time to leave.

FSD is a dangerous piece of garbage. It randomly disengages, tries to stop short at yellow lights, phantom braking etc.

The best deal is and will continue to be from BYD now.

Having a competing service that’s good at some things doesn’t exactly line up with the idea that he’s “declared war” against the company. In fact, it just makes the field better for consumers moving forward. If Elon being ousted from Tesla resulted in another pretty good EV company that did some things better than Tesla does today and some things worse, I’d call that a win for the market and not necessarily a risk for any EV companies.

> I mean I'm a liberal, I'm open to compromise, suggest me who else should look at it? Internal government employees? We investigated ourselves and found no corruption. Said every corrupt org ever.

Self driving progress has accelerated across the industry lately, it’s not only Tesla utilizing LLMs for driving. Chinese competitors already figured out self driving at Tesla levels. The lead is gone

I just bought an EV 2 days ago and it sure wasn't a Tesla. If you asked me from 2 years ago there wasn't even a consideration or another brand of EV as my next car. It's pretty wild how quickly he alienated his entire customer base.

wat? > Great men that sacrifice their free time for the good of humanity do deserve respect. If this is regarding elon: he's only working for his own self-interests (money)

We are in the endgame now as Dr. Stephen Vincent Strange said

At present this is the case, and they are many years ahead of Tesla in running this operation. So what makes us think that Tesla can do it profitably? Either the business model works or it doesn't. If it does, Waymo are years ahead. If it doesn't, then neither company will make it work.

Let me try to explain what I think was meant. Even if you don’t need a driver, you still have costs for the cab to operate. Electricity, Insurance, Repairs, etc. There is just no way that a private person can offer this service more efficiently (cheaper) than a Company. The problem is, that in order to keep resale prices high, Elon musk has been telling people since 2016!!!, that their cars will be able to generate money passively in the future.

Is TSLA went up even after this news, I think the earnings might be no different?

It’s been reported by Reuters the new affordable model for this year is a slightly slimmed down model Y that costs 20% less to make in order to compete better in China.

Because of all the propaganda. It will pick back up.

Waymo is confident enough in their system that they accept liability for any accident caused by their system, Tesla doesn't accept liability, in all accidents that has happened so far they blamed the driver

There is a huge industry which specialises in independently auditing large organisations. They employ "super smart nerds" who actually understand how to run an audit. Elon isn't honest, obviously doesn't understand how to run an audit given the amount of fuckups coming out of DOGE, *and* has obvious conflicts of interest. He not only has a history of dishonesty, but also an incentive to lie in this exact situation. Why *would* you want him taking point on cuts?

What does anything you said have to do with compassion for people, again? > Lets not talk about what Doge is working on. Ridiculous, talk about a straw man. >Your kind of people burn cars and attack innocent car owners, yet complain about a chainsaw metaphor? Who is trolling here? You have no idea what "kind of people" I am.

Will Tesla get FSD to work on a technical level before Waymo gets out of their “lose money on everything we sell and make it up on volume” hole? Who knows.

Pe is a terrible metric to use for just about anything except reddit commenting

I really feel for the people that work at Tesla...except for the ones that created this. They will walk away with a huge check while most of the others will go on unemployment. All because of the stupidity of Musk.

It doubled from October to January too….

How is it terrible? Its a useful insight to see stock price in comparison to market cap

Not true if you’re familiar with Ray on X he has posted many videos from Tesla owners in China since FSD released. The opinions of Chinese users is that FSD is the best self driving system by far, no contest. Again, not my opinion, these are the opinions of users and owners in China testing multiple systems. Edit: look up the user @ray4tesla on x.com and browse his posts and videos if you want to understand the opinions of real users in China and see real FSD testing compared to the competitors

A) this metric simply can’t be used to compare companies of one industry to another to make any a logical assumption about said company position in the market let alone hardly within the same industry. Companies are constantly at different stages of growth (or lack there of) I.e. amzn vs Google vs nflx vs msft vs nvda vs pltr. They’re all tech but in totally different industries within tech. Then you try to compare Tesla to msft using this metric when so many people cite them as an auto manufacturer when other try to compare them to ford and GM lol they’re much more of a tech company but at a totally different stage of their life cycle than something like msft. B)companies like Tesla, msft appl back in the 90s and 00s, the big banks in 09, BP in 2010 can often, protein 2020 can have insurmountable level of hate or support during their life cycles based on various outside influences that cause massive amounts of people to either be a steadfast bull or bear until one wins out over the long term. This will obviously change the price of the stock no matter what the fundamentals are. C) the p in this metric is often never fully dictated by pure fundamentals where the e is… so this metric inherently looks at something that almost isn’t ever fully reflective of a company’s fundamentals P based on one of the most purest number of its fundamentals E (these numbers are audited before they’re allowed to be published) which is entirely dumb. I could go on with more points but I’ve already wasted enough time typing this

Same. Until the DOGE nonsense we were preparing to replace our Model Y with the Juniper refresh. Bought a different brand instead.

Its not perfect but its a good indicator for a stock price being over or undervalued. Tesla is not the high growth company it was 5 to 6 years ago. Lets pick Nvidia from your example they have been growing much more then Tesla recently and have much more upside atm and even their PE is significantly less then Tesla

It really isn’t though. Maybe you could make the argument for if the collective market or industry is at a certain level of PE then yea but for individual stocks it’s a highly illogical metric to base any sound judgment off of

I very much doubt any financial advisor agrees with you

Mmm…kind of another dumb comment. Financial advisors arent financial analysts. They don’t run DCF models, analyze EV/Ebitda nor remeber half the stuff more relevant to assessing the quality of a company’s earnings and enterprise value that their finance degree taught them. what they also often don’t do is invest people’s money in specific stocks but rather asset classes and diversified funds or annuities lol The fact that you cited financial advisors as some authoritative body in determining if PE is a rational metric to use for judging the value of an individual companys stock tells me more than your defense of the metric itself. So this is a pointless conversation

Berlin only produces model y, so would be entirely impacted by the facelift.

Oops, yes you are correct

Cant tell you how many times I've refused to take a cab or uber because there is no option to buy the vehicle.

Not the smoking gun you seem to think it is. Maybe you should follow up on what you think you know.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/general-motors/2025/01/28/gm-record-profit-sharing-uaw-2024/77979449007/ Wow, didn’t realize unionized staff share profits at gm and ford to this extent. Wonder what Tesla does?

That's not at all what was being discussed in your comment of the comment you replied to, but ok.

But once Tesla gets FSD working (and they still haven't, despite promising it 'next year' since 2016) they will find themselves at the bottom of the hole that Waymo has already climbing out of for several years?

They already have an app, name recognition, and vehicles on the road. The cost advantage of camera only at high volume is massive over 300 retrofitted jaguars. That only matters if FSD actually works though.

Reading compehension is hard, i know

I know exactly what kind you are if you simply refuse to answer if you want someone to audit corruption or not. Should it be done or not? And by whom would you want it to be done. Government workers or private companies?

True. And we saw how one fatality basically destroyed Cruise - you have to think that Tesla trying to prioritize cost over safety is a very risky move both for the public and for the company.

Are those the same ones that gave AAA ratings back in 2008? All you do is throw around accusations. Never a single suggestion of who would be better to audit the government.

Most cars on the road with FSD are TESLA. Make a better argument.

That's why Elon is the best for it. The way they panic and the violent reaction to it is proof he is being effective. Its exactly how corrupt people would react if you cut off their money flow.

As a current 2024 Model Y owner, I made the mistake of going to test drive the new Model Y, the Cybertruck, AND the Model X. I am definitely now trying to sell my Model Y to get the new one, but I just haaaad to go and drive the others and now I need them. Some lady was in there buying two teslas in cash, but don’t know which models. Crazy.

Can you help point me in the right direction on how I can join the Cybertruck sub as a new owner?

No way to spin it. The brand is toxic, and in deep trouble. Sales to the far right isn't going to save him - there are 11 states where Tesla can't have stores (Arkansas, South Dakota, Alabama, Nebraska, West Virginia, Wyoming, Alaska, Kansas, Maine, Montana, and North Dakota) and they're all red states, save Maine. The tariffs will hurt, there's no real improvement in sight for model S or X, the cheap affordable cybertruck isn't on the way soon, and a robotaxi business just isn't nearly as big and lucrative as he's trying to spin. This is the beginning of the bad news for the brand. It would be overpriced with a P/E ratio of 60 (double Apple's) and it's at a whopping 130. The stock might ACTUALLY settle down to where it belongs at around 40-50, over the next couple years.

I imagine a lot is hard for you moron.

That's awesome, and for assisted driving, I think it's great. In a world of so many distractions, I think emergency braking and lane keep should be mandatory. Tesla's fsd excels at driver assistance and pseudo self-driving. There is a huge difference between your experience and getting into a car without a wheel and having it shuttling people around. It can't be nearly flawless or almost perfect. It has to never make mistakes regardless of weather, time of day, construction, etc... Could it have issues and still be safer than human drivers, sure; but the moment it hits a pedstrian or kills an occupant it's game over.  Best case scenario imo, is that Tesla can setup some basic routes in a city that it can't deviate from. Walk two miles to this parking, get in a robotaxi and have it drop you as close as possible to your destination.

Not sure what she's on. Keeps coming up with bigger and bigger numbers for Tesla while she keeps selling Tesla stock.

My barometer is the incentives. They just went from 0% financing on the model 3 (pretty nice) to a garbage discounted lease deal. As a model 3 shopper, sadface. As an investor, happyface.

Who is burning cars like they burned books in 1942 for political ideology? The extremists are the ones that do the burning.

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After the "PC revolution", Apple was bankrupt. Steve got it back onto its feet on the waves of the "dot com bubble", but only the "smartphone revolution" made them a big player. * PC revolution: mid-80s to mid-90s * dot com bubble: mid-90s to mid-00s * smartphone revolution: 07-...

This makes zero sense. They still made more than they sold. So how in any way is production a factor for the lower sales? They didn’t run out of cars to sell to people (which would mean a production limitation of sales). They didn’t limit purchases or deliveries due to inventory concerns. Now if you tell me they ramped down production due to lowered sales, that’s very valid. But not the other way around.

It has been improving for 10 years now, and still makes mistakes that you can't just put your children in the back and drive them to football practice. And you need to handle things like pickup, navigating in different environments, and so on. At some point you need to actually deliver a revenue and maybe profit generating business, not just 'improve' in some abstract way. Tesla is valued as an extreme extreme growth company, and currently they are not really growing.

Tesla shouldn't compete with Rivian, they should compete with Toyota/BYD based on their valuation.

Its not a competition about who has the best selling vehicle. Its a competition on who can sell the most cars at he best profit margin.

Tesla is not even selling any Model Ys in the US besides the 'launch' edition. They are clearly still ramping Model Y, hence the huge drop in sales. MANY people waiting for RWD and long range Model Y. And Tesla has the best margins so I'm not sure what your point is

They do, but the reports were that US Tesla customers are flocking to competition. Tesla has long known their only real competition will be from China. They need to get to a lower price point and they know this.

It's just not that bad because Tesla's basically been giving them away with 0% interest rates and the other incentives. That's going to put a BIG hit on the earnings.

What do you think tesla has been doing for the past decade? Robotaxi will be a thing. There is no question. How well it does is the question to answer.

No, the kool-aid is thinking he is fighting "corruption". You bought that hook, line, and sinker!

Hardly anyone's burning cars, dude. The majority of us are investing in different electric vehicles and killing Tesla with our wallets though. Free market baby

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Cybertruck buyers are the definition of people who want trucks to do the things you could do better in a car. I’ve never seen one used as an actual work truck

cant have stores here in CT.

They worked around it with that Mohegan Sun reservation store. https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/store/15184

That's true of a lot of large SUV/truck buyers in the US at least :) Not specific to CT

Then you should have no problems condemning the burning of cars. And why do you prefer Chinese EVs over TESLA?

I've never condoned the burning of cars. I also don't believe it's 'domestic terrorism'

Are politically motivated acts of vandalism not terrorism? You certainly seem to agree with the Tesla hate from the way you talk around it.

I literally did suggest who would be better to audit the government.

Because they were the only two players on the market. There was no BYD or VW group to Windows and iOS in that time so they were able to create a monopoly. Tesla's case is not remotely comparable. Also, Microsoft made software only, those companies made hardware only, how is that similar to the car business?

Did you notice the same thing happened with phones? If you can't see the parallels, I'm not sure I can make it any more obvious to you.

Yeah, the same happened with phones until android improved and now has 70% of global market share Tesla is more like Nokia, an early innovator that stagnates after becoming market leader and then lets the competition surpass them (well, maybe not that dramatically but it's also stagnant in terms of product innovation and tech) Elon hype is keeping the PE inflated, but unless they actually come up with new tech that's not as nebulous as having people on mars by 2020 it's not gonna end well for the company, specially with consumers becoming more and more pissed off at the brand

Where? Just repeat it, if I missed it.

Honda have been making cars for much less than a century, ditto BYD, Lamborghini. Plenty of successful car companies have been built from the ground up in the last century!

Should have mentioned American Car Company, but thank you for your pedantry!

“FSD” is an intelligent driving assistant and will never be self driving because the hardware is shit and they’ve hit a wall due to hardware. You made not argument.

Hope you brushed up on your Google searches, because - *shocker* - Canada investigated and found all the Tesla rebates were submitted for actually sold cars and there was no fraud. Canada has now unfrozen the rebates and is writing Tesla a big check. Good thing you were so cocky and sure about yourself! Oh wait...