Feature list of FSD v13.2.2 (source in comments)

Source: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1870534462557331724

The notes are here together with which cars and HW versions https://tesla-info.com/release/2024.45.25.5

This is no different than 13.2.0 right?

My 13.2.1 release notes indicated some upcoming features listed above so I’d say it is different Edit: clarification

Just drove 550 miles with it on a cybertruck. Zero interventions outside of stopping to charge. Good stuff!

So you were driving on the highway ?

Probably 525 miles of that was highway driving.

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It's a bit made up, but to be fair it's pretty clear what it means. How else would you name the metric that measures how long it takes for the car to react to something, when measured from when light hits the camera sensor?

If I had to guess I would say that it means the delay between it thinking what to do and actually translating it to physical movement

It's a perfectly valid measure. Sounds like you don't actually know what a photon is. But... that doesn't prove they're not making stuff up ;-)

You could run it through ChatGPT if you’re struggling with definitions.

I’m so glad Tesla is leaving us HW3 folks in the dust. It’s so nice to not have to worry about release notes, or cool new features, of seeing our cars improve. I love it so much!!

Well, you AI4 and up people have fun. Us HW3 and prior people will cheer you on from the bleachers lol. Maybe if we’re lucky we’ll see some of this.

I wonder if they’ll offer a retrofit sometime next year. I know hardware wise it’ll be difficult, but Elon mentioned it on last earnings call I think.

Yeah, I don’t support Elon anymore (politics), but don’t shit on Tesla Engineering lol.

It's the most descriptive short-form way to express that they are measuring the absolute outer input and output bounds of the system. Photon comes in is the earliest actionable input. Controls are the most final output. It's the absolute measure of latency of the whole system. Not sure why you would feel that's made up - it's concise and descriptive. What issue do you take with it specifically?

It is okay to not know things. It is not okay to not know things and then confidently form an opinion about the thing you don't know about. "In the context of autonomous driving, for example, photon-to-control latency would describe how quickly the car's cameras detect a change in the environment (like a traffic light turning green) and how fast this detection leads to a control decision (like accelerating). Reducing this latency means the system can respond more quickly to real-world changes, enhancing safety and performance."

Doubt it. I don’t trust Elon at all anymore. It’s more than likely they’ll say “we’re working on an upgrade path” to appease any lawsuits, drag their feet for 10 years until all the HW3s are out of commission or not worth it any more, and let the whole thing die. A business is a business, and I can be salty, but the fact is Apple isn’t going to sell a retrofit camera shutter button from the 16 Pro to the 15 Pro owners, Tesla isn’t going to sell an upgrade when the best upgrade path to HW4 in their eyes is “your next, new Tesla!”

Elon, respectfully, GFY Edit: signed, HW3 owner

What's worse than having HW3? Having a HW3 in Europe.

Just because you don't understand what it means doesn't mean it's fake

I doubt it do, but man it would be nice to not have this intel chip anymore too!

Agreed!

Correct, atleast feature wise.

It’s only a matter of time before all the HW4 folks are complaining that the software updates are only going out to HW5 users. The tech is just changing very quickly now. Not much you can do about it if you want to hang on to your car for many years. These things are just computers on wheels.

They might *have to* offer retrofits considering they sold the FSD package to people with HW3. The only way I can see it done on a large scale though is making a HW4 computer that fits in a HW3 enclosure. Allegedly the cameras won’t need to be changed out.

Just a bunch of vague gibberish at this point.

The lawsuits won’t seek a retrofit by that point, they’ll seek financial compensation. The lawsuits won’t just go away, people spent millions on FSD promises in 3.0 cars.

This is the true story

Awesome! Should also say: figured out how to compensate/fix the problem of HW3 owners who paid for this software.

HW 2.5?

have ai4, but still haven't gotten 13 or the holiday update...

There’ll be a class action at some point. Lawyers will make bank. You’ll get compensated for $100 if you even bother to sign up for the action.

True, but it’s extra shitty since Tesla has been telling us it’s right around the corner, with each car hardware complete, since HW2.5

Yes, most likely, but the point wouldn’t be getting money back, it’d be about hurting Tesla.

That’s right. And there were people who paid for FSD and sold their cars. Never realized the FSD functionality and the FSD license has close to zero added value on the car.

Release notes are identical. No difference. Not sure what you see.

Class actions aren’t always that little amount of money. A class action could be for every person who bought FSD but never received it due to hardware limitations et al when Tesla advised that they had the needed hardware to achieve what they paid for. In other words, a class action lawsuit could potentially refund the FSD amounts paid by buyers. I’m sure Tesla would try and likely get that amount down based off of a percentage of the originally promised FSD compared to what they actually delivered by the time of the suit, but I guess that depends on the lawyers and everyone else involved doing the class action. My car has HW3 and I could see Tesla arguing that they fulfilled their promise of FSD. No, I don’t trust it to never make a mistake, but it’s pretty close now. Way better than it was even just six months ago. I have a lot of complaints about it but all in all it’s still very impressive

I have HW3 and FSD is pretty fucking great. Yeah it doesn’t drive me everywhere with no interventions 100% of the time but it’s really incredible how far it’s come. And I’m definitely not a Tesla apologist, I’ve felt burned countless times since I got my car in 2020. But FSD works better now than I ever thought it would realistically.

I feel like that’d be a problem considering FSD on HW3 is pretty good right now. Perfect? No. Exactly what they promised? No. But still pretty damn impressive? Hell yeah. I was always in the camp that Tesla would never deliver usable FSD on city streets with HW3, but I’m happy to eat my words—it’s pretty great now. I still think Tesla screws over customers, myself included, in a lot of ways, but at this point, I’m pretty happy with FSD. Obviously, I wish I could just set it and forget it for long drives. Honestly, I could in a lot of cases, but it still makes decisions I wouldn’t, so I prefer to take over.

https://imgur.com/Bo015wD At least Elon screwed himself into a corner by promising us FSD not realising he'd be held accountable for it, and now we're legally owed HW4 in some form.

There are some unlucky ones like me and I where I got holiday update in one car, but no v13, and my other car got v13 but no holiday update. Then you, which got neither lol

Same

So are HW3 cars never getting the same updates as HW4? Or are we just behind by a few months? I don’t know much about Teslas sorry

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You’re right I mixed it up.

Improved camera cleaning? How is this possible with just a software update?

If HW4 is proven capable of unsupervised FSD, they’d probably just make retrofit to that and considers that anything HW5 offers is just an upgrade.

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I understand the overall point OP of this comment was making. For patch notes, there is no reason to use overly technical terms such as "photon to control". Tesla can and should use what other companies across every technical field use to describe delay from sensor to output, latency.

In what way? L3 already exists and is legal in Germany

Right, but I remember a time when Tesla was saying that (either HW2 or HW3) will be full-self-driving hardware - I can understand if any of those people feel salty now.

The redesigned controller is new.

Sure would be nice to move on from 12.3.6 sometime 

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Or at the very least, allow 2 & 3 to upgrade to 4. I wouldn’t doubt it’s impossible.

You got AP 13.2 on HW3?

You have to enable your cortex cluster to understand this

That's on 13.2.1 also, just checked.

"oh shit your sleeping divits" can't say I've heard them called that before but thanks for the laughs.

I just bought a 2023 model y with FSD. I barely know what FSD means. I need to know more about this, what it’s capable of, what it’s not good at. Can someone tell me where to start?

No it’s not https://preview.redd.it/oq053ak0yb8e1.jpeg?width=1206&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=542213aa95efc5f28b7e34833dd00b090a95332a

Release notes should just go straight to r/IAmVerySmart At this point

Maybe those are old notes? [This is my car](https://i.imgur.com/aZ524vy.png).

What’s “AP 13.2”? If you mean FSD v13.2, no HW3 car has that

Went shopping today on 13.2.1 and it did everything from driveway to parking lot with no issues, a mix of city and highway driving. For some reason though it’s unable to park properly at the destination and just aphazardly park on the lines and I have to redo it. It’s weird since the manual auto parking works fine when engaged manually.

Oh my bad, that’s super weird

I think it’s not on Model S and X yet

You can get better results training a larger LLM and then distilling it down to a smaller LLM than you could from training a smaller LLM directly In other words, the fastest path to getting robotaxi working on HW3 (if possible) is to get it working on AI4 first and then distill it down for HW3 So don’t think of it as being left in the dust. This is the best path forward for everyone Or if it turns out to not be possible on HW3, this is the fastest way to figure that out, and then you’ll get a retrofit

Couldn’t agree more, 2019 model 3 LR. It’s absolutely amazing compared to what it was when I first got it.

I just tried FSD 13. Is it supposed to park correctly at destination? I went to Starbucks at midnight. It was closed but it still tried to take me into the drive thru haha. Is it supposed to just park in front?

Please don’t come at me for wearing a tin foil hat, but do we know where those microphones that listen for sirens are and have they said if they’re actually listening all the time while fsd driving?

In the cabin, probably by the PWS speakers, who knows and who cares. Also no they don’t listen for sirens yet that’s upcoming in 13.4

Would you say it’s worth it to upgrade from HW2.5? I have a 2018 model 3 DM LR I got this year, and I plan on keeping it for probably 3 or 4 years before trading it in. From what I’ve seen I’ll get the green light chime, auto turn signal turn-off, better video compression and better visualizations on the display. I have a service on January 31st but obviously can cancel if I don’t go thru with the upgrade

“Photon-to-control” Marketing is unhinged

I prefer Universal Energy Driver

Still waiting for absolutely anything in Australia. I paid for FSD 4 years ago… Best case scenario now is to upgrade to a new Y juniper and get a transfer (hopefully)

"It's pretty great now" was not what you were sold, especially in the time frame that promises were promised under. Not only did people buy FSD, but in many cases chose a tesla to get the FSD for promises that have not come yet. That's not ok

While it's neural networks from highway to parking now, they are not integrated yet. Parking will be integrated with a future 13.x including choosing how it ends the route.

The new owner gets the value as FSD improves. It's not like the car disappeared when they sold it.

I’m not debating this is the best path from a training perspective, I’m debating that Tesla even wants to do a retrofit, even if Elon said he will. I no doubt believe V13 can be distilled down to HW3, but I just don’t think Tesla would lose that upgrade stick to get people to move up, by offering V13 or an upgrade.

Back in 2018 the whole industry was saying autonomy was just around the corner. Then all but Tesla and Mobileye backed down on their promises over the next couple of years, pushing out their timelines. I'm ok with "this was harder than we thought". I'm even more ok with Tesla and others doubling down on the effort to get it done. Progress has been pretty clear, particularly from Tesla. It is easier now than ever to remain patient. Speaking as a right hand drive HW3 owner having paid in full for FSD.

Thankyou for the most accurate appraisal. So many people here just want to be salty even in the face of obvious progress.

It prompts you at the end of a drive if it thinks the cameras are obscured.

Parking NN is not yet integrated into the driving NN. Coming soon.

Start with YouTube from someone in your country then go through the manual and enable all the relevant features in the menus then go for a drive in a quiet place. Start with low expectations.

Sometimes it will park, sometimes it won't. It's not fully integrated yet but occasionally it will anyway.

The biggest difference going from a 2021 Y w/ HW3 to a 2024 Y is that FSD actually works at night now with a dark cabin and doesn't require wheel torque. That alone has been a game changer for me.

The FSD update is insane. Car changing lanes all over the freeway. No blinker. Straddling the white lines. WTH?

Dude, grow up. He even said if an hardware upgrade was necessary that it would be free.

That’s interesting, my 2020 works fine at night without wheel torque in a dark cabin

Computers should be upgradable then. Its a computer! An expensive car with a computer with a hefty non-transferable software cost.

That's actually somewhat of a typical term when it comes to systems like this. Apple Vision Pro and Quest headsets (and other XR devices) quote motion-to-photon latency of passthrough cameras, which is latency at which the camera can take in what it's seeing and display it to your eye. AVP can do it in 12ms, Quest 3 takes 40ms and the perceptible difference is night and day. XR devices are pretty similar in the way that they're SoCs with many camera inputs processed in real-time to create both passthrough view and world tracking as close to real time as possible. Photon to control for FSD is the measurement of time from the camera capturing the scene to the point where the system can act on what it's seeing. There's not really a better way to bullet point that.

Do all recent models have this?

2020 3 or Y? Service said this was normal and that I need to disable dark or automatic mode on the display. Even with that setting enabled, if it was dark enough (no streetlights or other cars around), FSD would stop working and complain the cabin camera was blocked.

Just to be safe, don’t plan on any kidnapping, or serial killing aloud:-)

I’m so happy for the 100 of yall that will get this.

It worked best a few versions ago when we saw that huge jump in smoothness. I want to go back to then at least. Right now it’s decent but literally slams breaks at greenlights all the time and as soon as a light turns yellow.

“He said” is something you learn real quick to mean absolutely worthless.

I agree that they definitely don’t want to do retrofits, but I believe they will if they have to I don’t think Musk was lying (in this case). He said it in an investors call. In other words, he said it to a group of people who *didn’t* want to hear that. So he wasn’t just saying it to make people happy And they’ve done it before with free HW2 to HW3 retrofits. In that case, they didn’t even have a financial incentive to do so, just an obligation from a promise. In this case, they’d have that obligation plus a financial incentive. All those HW3 cars would become eligible to be added to the Robotaxi network and start making money for Tesla. Enough to offset the cost of the retrofits? I have no idea. But it would at least help some

It's just so odd having a FSD Tesla here in Australia. Paid for it YEARS ago, and absolutely no change for 3-4 years now in its basic capabilities. Then you read "it's incredible, no interventions. And then it's hopeless, it cant drive". I cant wait to see where the truth lies (or all are correct)

+1 bump bump bump is the sound it loves to make on my divided highway.

Nothing new added.

At this point, whatever. I just got [12.5.6.4](http://12.5.6.4) a week ago. Probably won’t get v13 until v14…lol

I believe photon to control means something different here. Before V12, the system used the camera feeds to first create a 3D vector space, then used many thousands of hard coded rules to make decisions and control. Since v12, the camera sensor data is sent directly to a neural net which outputs control. There is no vector space middle step. We still see the vector space as a 3D visualisation on the screen, but it is decoupled from the control. I assume they use the word ‘photon’ instead of camera sensor data as they are doing zero image processing on the cameras. If you listen to Elon and Ashok talking in the first live stream of FSD12, they talk about the new system being nothing but neural nets. Photons in, control out. We don’t know FSD’s exact reaction time, but assuming FSD needs at least two video frames to make a decision, and we know that the system is running at 36hz (so it receives a new frame every 28ms). We can say that 56ms is the minimum reaction time it could have.

3

You’re saying the same thing. The time from a photon hitting the camera to the steering and throttle inputs executing.

Any idea when this will be released on a 2 week old M3P? New owner and not sure how it works. Fast internet/wifi and on the FSD trial (with plans to keep as a monthly sub). Maybe I’m lower priority.

Yeah but Tesla would rather sell you an expensive new car than a comparatively cheap new computer :]

Is it full self driving or is it supervised? Words don’t have meaning anymore.

I just got a prompt for it. Why did only 100 of us get it and how do you know it's 100?

Only my last paragraph is saying the same thing. My first paragraph is explaining why ‘photon the control’ is not the same thing. ‘Photon to control’ describes a totally new method of control using neutral nets. It has nothing to do with latency, but may improve it as a side effect.

Driving by braille

It drives itself while you supervise.

I just got this update but my app still says software: v12 and I don’t see anything about fsd 13.2.2 in the release notes. I’m on hw4 and also at work so can’t check the car.

I have had zero issues. If you have it set to hurry, it will do some lane changing. I set mine to chill and just cruise in the far right lanes. I have over 2.5k miles on my Y, and 90% of those miles were on FSD on navigate. I have had one potentially dangerous interaction when it randomly swerved to avoid something that was not there. The random braking and harsh braking has picked up since the last two updates. My 50 minute commute I don't even remember most of the time because I am zoned out listening to the radio while FSD does its thing.

Figured out the problem. We installed a bike rack the same day as the update so when we had this problem we thought it was the update. Then I started googling and found out it was the bike rack. Can’t use FSD with a bike rack.

HA, that is good to know and quite the coincidence. I was planning on getting a bike rack soon as well, so I will make sure to remember that.

That’s why they want you to hang a weight at the steering

I just traded up to a 2025 3 with HW4 last week from a 2018 3 with HW3 (retrofit), and honestly can confirm. HW3 was great, and I haven't had HW4 very long, but I don't see any immediate difference, tbh. It can go most places with no interventions most of the time, but so could HW3, and neither of them recognize speedbumps. Edit: correction! I assumed it wasn't going to slow down for the speedbump because it didn't show anything on the screen, so I didn't give it a chance, but I did today, and it did slow down for it, so that's a thing!

Tesla would have to be willing to accept liability for the actions of its system to attain L3 status in germany tho. They will never do that. (Currently, they're not even willing to fulfill the legal requirements for L2, which is the reason why FSD supervised isn't active in europe).

Something is wrong with your car. I've never seen that in my 2021 or 2023 M3

They release in waves. It’ll just happen one day.

I always think of John Carmack’s oculus technical keynotes minimizing control to photon latency so this seems non-marketing to me.

Does it correct phantom breaking ?

Photon-to-control latency just means the time it takes for the system to perceive the camera inputs to controlling the car. Whether the system uses hard-coded logic or a neural net in between to process the data is irrelevant to the terminology.

> I have had zero issues >I have had one potentially dangerous interaction when it randomly swerved to avoid something that was not there. The random braking and harsh braking has picked up since the last two updates. How is having a random swerve and more random and harsh braking mean zero issue? Those are pretty bad.

I just want FSD to stick to one lane on the freeway, but they removed the lane keeping feature, which is a bummer. People say to just set it to chill and stay on the right-most lane like that’s a feasible solution. I don’t want to be stuck behind a truck the whole time when driving on the freeway.

For software as complex and widely used as Tesla FSD, it performs remarkably well. Minor quirks are to be expected with any software, but they remain well within acceptable limits over 3,000 miles of driving. Since the latest update, I haven’t encountered a single instance of random or harsh braking. Harsher braking is simply part of the real-life experience—there’s always at least one lead foot in every family, maybe even two!

Did they remove the "stop making lane changes" option? I tried to use it last weekend and it pissed me off like crazy, constantly wanting to change lanes.

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How is it now? I have 12.6.3 on 2021 M3 SR, and it's about as good as it's probably going to get and only 'edge cases' concern me.

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Doubt it. There can't be that many people who paid full price for FSD on HW3. I'm guessing maybe 2%?