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Cries in a hardware 3 car.
Just got an update and I was so excited. 12.5.6.4 🥺
Don't worry, just join the inevitable class action since "All Tesla Vehicles built after October 2016 have all hardware necessary for FSD" was a core part of the Tesla sales pitch.
They’ve already said they will upgrade computers for free if necessary. Settle down.
Cannot wait for this. I purchased a new Model 3 last week after seeing some of the clips going out. This is it. Cannot see what v13.3 has in store as well if any of the other goal posts for v13 planned it should be even more insane than what we've seen.. I've been one of the biggest skeptics of FSD as well as one of the original purchasers in October of 2016. I really think this is the big one, the one we were all skeptical of, said would never happen. It just doesn't seem real.
Only if you purchased FSD outright. Otherwise your car that contains “all hardware for FSD” will not have said hardware without a paid upgrade.
Pretty sure it's not only the computers but the cameras being lower quality. Last I read that hw4 can't fit in a car with hw3.. Also hw4 likely can't do true fsd anyway so it's all irrelevant
Very cool to see this go wide. We'll see of course but a free trial of this should really blow minds
Can’t wait
I own FSD on my 2022 X Plaid. It's hw3. At some point, I'll have to accept the fact I'm not going to get everything hw4 has and that's ok...but i really want v13 for the parking spot to parking spot capabilities... If I don't get that in say a year, I'm going to use the fact my company has lawyers in a retainer and that's a company car.
That’s incorrect. There are no differences in hardware when you purchase FSD or not. It was always designed to add later via software, hence the ability to add FSD as a subscription.
Tesla isn’t going to give HW4 upgrades to folks who didn’t pre pay for FSD. Let’s check back in 180 or so days. By then HW3 will be deprecated.
For all vehicles or only for owners who paid the $10k?
They're cooking a new build right now. It's just going to take more time to cram the changes into the confined space of the hardware. My model 3 has uploaded well over 200gb this week which it didn't start doing until Tuesday last week. My AI4 model Y stopped uploading on Friday, just my reported incidents only. It's currently at 204gb for the month. I'm guessing AI3 will see a variance of 12.5.6.x and continue training for a v13 iteration. 12.5.6 is a very good version.
And? They did a camera and FSD computer retrofit for my HW 2.0 vehicle.
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Took it on a short ride, buttery smooth!
They are saying Tesla isn't promising to update your car if you didn't buy FSD. If you have the subscription or decide FSD is looking great after things have been thoroughly upgraded, you will likely have to pay $1500-$2500 to upgrade the computer.
1. The FSD developers believe it's compute constrained not the camera quality. 2 HW4 computer can, it just requires an adapter for the moved coolant lines, current MY 2024 have a version of this adapter already. 3. "True" FSD doesn't exist yet, but v13 is making some real convincing arguments for it being possible and not just plausible.
They were more compatible between 2->3. Everything I've seen shows a similar swap won't work. Ok we shall see how it ages. I highly doubt hw4 will be able to do true fsd. If a camera gets dirty it can't clean it, in inclement weather it is blind, it doesn't have a front bumper camera and is lacking in some cross traffic angles. Can fsd be done? Absolutely. Do I think it can be done on hw4? No.
An argument can be made that if it’s advertised as having the hardware, it should still have the option to upgrade the software to FSD for the current price and not be a dead end.
I’m saying if they figure out a viable upgrade path, it should still be available to anyone purchasing FSD at the current price. Otherwise, there was no benefit to saying the hardware for FSD is included in every car made.
Curious how you’re monitoring what it uploads.
That’s actually a decent update.
Same. Covid car with HW3 intel chip and potato cameras. Sigh.
Probably has a firewall like UniFi/Ubiquiti or Opnsense/PFsense Example of mine: https://imgur.com/a/zjzMlOa
I have a Eero Mesh WiFi setup and the app can watch each device down/upload and saves it. Here is my model Y from last month, for example. https://preview.redd.it/vmp7zn0zo47e1.png?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f8bff3c89307a4484a6dce60dfd475001123af3
25GB is incredibly low. Mine: https://rr.judge.sh/Hellbender/41ee22/chrome_rG3v2cZhvgXN.png I have a M3P Highland with FSD, and I drive 80+ miles most days of the week, so that might be apart of why it's beaming more data to the mothership.
Yeah mines a 2023 M3P HW3
You might be the first person besides the "big 4" to report back on it using it. Congrats
I said it before. It's happening this year.
That's not ok because that's not what you were sold.
I’m subscribe to FSD and my ‘24 Model 3 is on 2024.33.40 but it’s got 2024.44.3.1 downloaded but not installed. I hope this FSD v13 update is pushed to my car soon… I care more for FSD than the holiday update.
Sure, but when? They could not push FSD updates to HW3 for a year or even several years and then offer the upgrade. I’m not saying they will do that, but they can and it would still adhere to what they said.
An argument can be made but tesla has a pretty good argument too. Subscriptions never came with the promise of free upgrades. But purchasing does. They’ve even set a precedent for it.
I got it 3 hours ago and I'm always late to get fsd updates. Can't wait to use it tomorrow to work
All they need to do is do a different hardware 4 board on packaging that is compatible with the older cars, they control all of the designs. I’m sure they would rather not do that, and it might mean they wait for v5 and design something that is easier to adapt to both v4 and v3 cars and upgrade everyone at once (assuming v4 needs to be upgraded). I do expect them to stall as long as possible (e.g. wait until a class action suit looks like it is going forward), because that will mean fewer v3 cars on the road to upgrade.
Same :(
Dude they can redesign a HW4/5 module to fit a HW3 car if they need to. The correct statement is the "current" HW4 setup isn't physically compatible with hardware 3 cars.
How about on Hardware 3?
Yeah this is exactly what I think will happen. The whole product is built on future promises, and this is just one more that will not be realized quickly enough to matter for a 2018 vehicle.
AI_DRVR on YouTube has a HW3 M3 I think He’s had some testing with v13 Idk why it wouldn’t come to us? Edit: rewatched the video and totally missed that he’s in a MY and not a pre-2024 M3
I would rather just have one guaranteed free FSD transfer.
Looking forward to trying it out on some commutes this week!
On my HW3 M3 I just got the FSD holiday update and I feel like it’s making more aggressive braking when coming to a stop than before the update. Why can’t we get braking smoother? Makes me not want to use it off the highway cause it’s nauseating
They say many things, you seem new around here..been led on since 2019. 5 years of false promises really leaves you with no shred of hope left.
Exactly. They’ll stall it out. No way they’re going to just update all these cars, that’s not the Tesla way.
How about slamming on brakes as soon as a light turns yellow? Or slamming on breaks when coming up on a green light for no damn reason even though it used to be super smooth before?
Yeah I really hate that. Almost ended up in an accident a few months back because of the yellow light thing. Guy behind me was pissed
The thing is that they give no timeline, so if you're on HW3 it could be years of watching HW4 people have nearly perfect self driving. And they could also just limit it to only people who paid outright and not the people subscribing.
If they could, why would they not design a compatible HW4 in the first place?
You’ll be waiting a while. HW3 has reached its cap in what it can process.
I do wonder, if it comes down to it and they have to upgrade all the computers, a quick Google check suggests there are 900,000 Teslas with FSD enabled, even if they get the cost down to $1000 per install, that could potentially cost them at-least $900 million. I don't see how they would ever do it
I personally don’t think they will offer a free backport of the hardware, at best they will charge for it. But to answer your question, when designing a new release it is easier to do so with fewer constrains and back compatibility is a large constraint. So if they don’t think they will need to back fill the hardware they will not spend time making the footprint and plugs compatible.
AI5 uses 800 watts of power versus the ~300 HW3 and HW4 use, so I find it unlikely there is even an upgrade path from HW4 to AI5. Probably more likely there would be a HW4.5 that would be able to replace HW3. It should be telling to everyone that the cybercab, a vehicle that must be able to run a close to perfect version of FSD, doesn’t even use HW4.
Maybe not just compute, but right now the latest tweets show its memory constrained. The models don't fit inside HW3 anymore. That's why there's a huge difference in performance in the latest V12 FSD between HW3 and 4. The full size of V12 doesn't actually fit inside of HW3. V13 is going to be leaps and bounds more capable once they start leveraging the increased model sizes (also tweeted). I expect Tesla to eventually have a small HW3 team doing major optimizations to model sizes. Maybe make a V13 mini or a V12 mini, before calling it and dropping major updates and pushes to HW3.
Assuming the number of people who outright purchased FSD is a minor part of that figure, 900k teslas subscribed to FSD at the current price would equate to 1 billion in revenue a year.
I guess my counter to that is: why mention the hardware in every car then? If it’s only relevant to FSD purchasers? Yes, it was cool to offer free upgrades from 2.5 to 3.0 but isn’t knowing you have the hardware required for full FSD an enticement? What about people on the fence waiting for it to get good enough, who were told “you have the hardware necessary”?
If I just got the V12.5.4.2 like a week ago, when I can reasonably expect to get the V13.2.1? It's software version 2024.44.25.2
lol they said a lot of things that didn’t happen. That’s how we got here.
AI5 is not out yet, but what matters isn’t the max draw, but how much it needs to draw during operation. No problem for Tesla to downrate the chip if that’s cheaper than printing a lower performing chip.
Yes , in many many years when HW3 cars are obsolete. They’re saying it to avoid legal issues.
What do you mean? Where has he tested V13 on a HW3 car??
How many years from now
Are you sure that AI Driver is using HW3? He would be the only v13.2 on HW3 that I’ve heard of if that were true.
How does it compare to 12.5.4.2?
How can you tell if you’re HW3 or 4?
So long as folks that purchase aren’t charged for the upgrade, I think it’s fair. Makes sense they wouldn’t want to eat the costs of an upgrade for a subscriber that may cancel. Though they could require a locked in contract to cover costs. Or they could just cancel subscription offer for legacy services. Which would suck and I doubt they would.
They were still selling hw3 in late 2023 in many countries.
Yeah I was the same way. Normally I’m just middle of the pack. Shocked to see I got it so early. I was so early that no one had even posted nor was it listed on “not a Tesla app”
I’m new to this, how do I see the actual changes? The patch notes, to me, seem to not really change much. Every patch I seem to read the same thing.
No clue. Haven’t driven it yet. The last update was way better than the previous though. I’m still getting some phantom braking near semis.
Looks like HW3 to me: https://youtu.be/iYlQjINzO_o?si=eAuYeK3fqNGRNoYh 11 days ago
Looks like HW3 to me: https://youtu.be/iYlQjINzO_o?si=eAuYeK3fqNGRNoYh Doesn’t look like a highland M3 at all and there have not retrofits offered to my knowledge.
Interesting thanks!
Elon has actively promised this since *checks notes* oh yea, 2016.
They just have to wait until all old cars are on the scrapyard to offer it.
Only if unsupervised cannot be achieved. So many years into the future yet.
They didn’t say they would upgrade to HW4. Just that they would upgrade.
I think pretty much every 2023 M3 is HW3.
I have it, but I don't pay a subscription, it came with my used 2018 M3, I know that's not the case for everyone, but for older HW3 vehicles I would be surprised if that's not the case for most. There have been several times when Tesla has pre installed FSD on their used cars to boost the value of older cars. After I purchased the car at 30k they received no revenue from me since, I'd be surprised if they had any inclination to upgrade my hardware for free when I paid them nothing apart from the original cost of the car
From park to parking today it took me to work with 1 intervention to speed it up on a blinking yellow to make a left
I was the same way. I had 2 interventions 1. The road I normally take was closed. It definitely noticed, and I think it was close to figuring it out. But a semi started coming up on me and I didn’t wanna cause him to brake just for my silly little AI test. 2. I had to park. So when it got in the parking lot I disabled FSD, then clicked a spot and did auto park. Only touched the wheel once for the error in #1
Just subscribed to FSD on holiday update following the end of the trial. Was downgraded back to 12.5.4.2 from 12.5.6.4 and it’s painful. Hoping v13 comes to holiday update soon
Don’t have to wait for 13.3.1 :). 12.5.6.4 takes me home and work with 0 interventions lately. I’m a pretty chill driver now.
Unfortunately, with the end to end nature of the development that's all you'll see. I'm sure they have some goals that they try to emphasize in the model training, but for the most part, it's not like you'll see "better handles left unprotected left turns" or "properly slows down in school zones," especially on the smaller releases.
I want to know if the “chill / standard / hurry” profiles are still there because I despise this with 12.5.6.4
Same for me. I was on [12.5.6.3](http://12.5.6.3) before. Hoping today there's another update to 13.2.1. [12.5.6.3](http://12.5.6.3) has been a pretty solid release. I was thinking this morning that in the span of 6 months I've gone from expecting to intervene a couple of times on my commute to expecting none at all. Most of the issues with [12.5.6.3](http://12.5.6.3) have been speed related and just managing staging the car into the correct lane for upcoming turns. I'm really looking forward to more confident turns and not having to constantly push it to go faster with 13.2.1
24MX no Xmas updates no V13 🥱😴
source on any of this?
they will offer free back-port for anyone that purchased FSD out right - so not all cars.
We should have believed you
The release notes appear to have upcoming features listed, so that is probably what will be in 13.3. Parking space to parking space, for example
It’s insane. Unless you’re right at the light, it’ll slam it jerking everyone forward and make you think you’re about to crash. I get being conservative but they overcorrected somehow
What? You said Version 13 was this year? So what? If you mean unsupervised FSD is happening this year, no way.
They are but they’ve been dramatically improved over the previous.
That's why I said I'm extra excited for 13.3 over the current release
Yeah in all honesty these questions of what Tesla will need to update is moot until fsd unsupervised is out on cars and tested to a point that the HW3.5 module needs to be made. I don't see any retrofit happening until 2027 at the earliest.
I hate that the S and X always seem to be neglected.
The release notes always copy the introduction and general description of FSD. You have to scroll down to the bullet points to see the changes made. It’s not very clearly presented, indeed.
Yup exactly this. I used "compute constrained" to just mean replacing the FSD Computer.
On v12, the speed profiles only apply to roads and highways with 50mph (80kph) or higher speed limits. On v13 they’re used on all city streets.
Yep, I just got 2024.33.40. I hope I get v13 before a big road trip next week!
I've been here since 2015. They've made good on every promise I ever wanted. Except maybe the Cyberquad and the trucks range. Still hopeful though because battery tech is flippin hard to commercialize.
I look forward to my 6 month old HW4 car getting this sometime in the spring. Also I hope v13 it will do better on the 2 points on my commute that I have to disengage every time. For some reason there is a left turn lane that the car just *has* to be in, even though it only lasts for about 10 meters or so.
Why do you think it will be the spring? Or are you assuming thats when the next free trial will be?
My old S got updates much faster than the new car. No idea why.
It's still miles away, in Salt Lake City anyhow. Mine struggles with a double left turn lane if there is something to do soon after the turn, and has not ever addressed a deep gutter crossing the road which is quite common in the area.
Chill. Not even HW4 has gotten V13 yet... You will get V13 eventually, just 3 months after HW4 gets it...
that's a HW4 car...
Looks like HW3 to me: https://youtu.be/iYlQjINzO_o?si=eAuYeK3fqNGRNoYh Doesn’t look like a highland M3 at all and there have not retrofits offered to my knowledge.
You know they offered free upgrades right? Right?
Because right now the way they did HW4 was the cheapest way, and they expect it to be cheaper in the future to adapt HW4 to a smaller unit( one that fits), into HW3, than straight up designing a smaller HW4 right of the bat, as that would probably need better cooling/hardware than the option they are using, thus more expensive.. or, they can make adaptations to the hw3 slot so that it fits HW4. Also, for future reference, you have a thing inside your head called commonly known as a "brain", maybe give it some use next time? instead of just searching for arguments?
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he says this on the first comment "Once those small bugs are fixed I see no reason this doesn’t release to the entire fleet, and I think there’s an extremely good chance every HW4 car gets this before Xmas (sorry HW3)" So I think its clear he is using HW4
Do you have FSD 13? can you show a video?
AHHHH can't wait . Yep it's on TeslaFI and not just a few cars either. Looks like all cars within about a week will get it.
That’s HW4, idk why you would think it isn’t
Ohhhh I see. it’s because it’s a Model Y with HW4 not a Model 3. I was thinking it was a M3.
So maybe early Jan 2025? I was just wondering the time to get update between the first who got it and the newer release version like me.
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LOL
Alright, good to know, thank you!
It's as much a done deal.
Is English not your first language? WHAT is a done deal? Version 13? Or unsupervised FSD? Again, unsupervised FSD isn't happening in 2025. Or 2026. Or 2027. It has to work effectively 100%. and it may never happen.
We'll see, won't we?
If you subscribe?
Just got the update on my 23MX! Super surprised, I feel like I always get these late.
I would say yes because you bought the car “with all the hardware necessary.” If you want to subscribe or purchase later at current retail price, why shouldn’t you? If you had to add a “FSD Hardware Package” for $3,000 at purchase, it’s a different story.
People have been waiting for 8 years. Are still waiting.
The craziest thing is that FSD is already self-driving and has been for a while depending on where you live. Just not officially or legally since you’re still liable. Hell even NoA could drive for hours at a time without intervention. I really think unsupervised is coming next year, Tesla just has to bite the bullet and geofence it.
Basically all feedback about FSD is outdated now unless it’s 13, since it brings such a drastic change.
You might have a case if you own a 2018 model 3 with 0 miles on it that you didn't drive because FSD never worked. Otherwise you may as well demand your money back on food after you finished eating because it wasn't what was promised.
There are lots of people now. At least from what I see on X
Got it today. Used it on the drive home from the office…big improvement.
LOL and tonight I’m getting it.
FSD is now improving exponentially. Would not be surprised if we see the first Robotaxis in a few selected areas by the end of 2025. I agree full-scale release is probably still at least a couple years away.
I don’t think it will be as drastic as people think it will. Bigger models don’t always mean better. OpenAI and others are finding this out that you only have so much low hanging fruit. The models still hallucinate with more data. I do worry there is a technical limit to neural networks that will be reached. It will be like the most advanced llm still not knowing how many r’s are in strawberry. At the end of the day the car doesn’t really know its driving and it’s not agi. It will lead to an error rate that is not acceptable for driving unsupervised.
Source on 800 watt usage?
I'm bummed. Saw I had an update but it is the 13.2.1 instead of the holiday update.
Stockholders would say, if you want the latest, buy a new car. 🚗
>And they could also just limit it to only people who paid outright and not the people subscribing. This is what they did with the HW2 to HW3 upgrades and unfortunately not enough people fought them on it. My opinion at the time was that everyone on HW2 should have gotten upgrade for free whether they bought FSD at the time or not. The advertising was all cars had the hardware necessary -- not that only cars that bought the fsd package had the hardware necessary.
Elon already admitted when HW4 was coming out that it wasn't cost effective to upgrade folks. Do people really think the economics changed? I think they are only saying they can upgrade because the lawyers pointed out they need to avoid class action as long as possible.
>You know they offered free upgrades right? Right? They haven't offered anything yet, they've instead made yet another empty promise in a series of empty promises. I wouldn't even say Elon promised he would actually upgrade HW3 for free. For a guy that constantly makes outlandish statements with bold convictions his promise to upgrade HW3 is relatively timid and qualified. His exact words were > ***If*** it turns out that HW3 can't achieve ***unsupervised*** FSD with an appropriate safety level, we will upgrade HW3 to ***HW4*** free of charge. So based on this to even consider doing an upgrade its not enough for HW4 to have new features... they first have to solve unsupervised FSD. Something they are already 6+/8+ years late on. They also have to solve unsupervised on HW4 to agree to upgrade HW3 to HW4... if it instead requires HW5... or 6... or 7...etc. HW3 isn't getting an upgrade. There is strong arguments to be made HW4 isn't enough... after all HW2 was supposed to be enough and we are now at HW4. It's funny to watch having had an original HW2 car.... the next generation of owners not having learned from those of us that got burned originally by empty promises. Short memories
If your side repeater cameras are red, it’s HW4.
Can someone please explain what this update brings to FSD? TIA
Anyone know if Tesla still plans to upgrade HW3 for free if they can't get it to work on HW3?
So I upgraded today. Insane how much the car uses. https://preview.redd.it/wsf8wpv7op7e1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=379857acb961a2359124669d9c0217e1d9ba1b3f
It’s not being offered. It’s just been said by Elon, which based off his track record is not a good sign.
Still waiting for v13 on Model Y
400 mile trip on 13.2.2. 1 and I wish I hadn’t upgraded. Car drifts left and right on highways and city streets to the point I had to intervene on highway. Drifted close enough to a car in another lane that my passenger reacted. Also ignores reduce speed limit signs so at every speed zone I have to roll back the max speed. Big disappointment. Shocked at how poorly it tracks down a well marked lane compared to the previous version
That's odd! Is there a chance it could be a calibration issue? I haven't observed that problem, and we've taken it on a road trip as well.
I don’t know it’s a brand new car and all I did was update software. Is camera calibration suggested after every software update? I had just taken the same 400 mile trip on the prior version a week previously (opposite direction) and didn’t see any of this.
It likes to hug the curbs in the left and right lanes.. closer than ever before. Makes it very interesting when there are cars parked on the road. It also rides bike lane markers with two wheels. Clearly shown on the screen so it knows there is a lane marker there. Other than that, it’s great.
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