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Can they fix phantom breaking? Or random speed changes?
Random speed changes are irrelevant with V12, so since this version finally enables V12 on the highway, yes. V12 also phantom brakes way less than V11.
I’ve noticed an uptick in phantom breaking on my hw3
Thank goodness. About time.
The phantom braking, driving like a grandma, and no speed control are bullshit.
[deleted]
Would be great not to hear the chime once a minute whenever I drive anywhere 9 months of the year
Australia please Elon!
Then sell the car.
Or they could just do better with software updates. Don’t be a prick.
V12 on non-highway still has random speed issues. Also noticed it is not as good as picking up speed limit signs. Probably needed to turn down some capabilities on hw3 for it to run.
While your criticisms are fair, your approach in the comment is probably what triggered the other comment. Yes, those are annoyances and could be better but to say they are bullshit and Tesla needs to do better with software updates is a bit short sighted. So yeah, if you don't like it don't use it. I'm happy with my 12.5.4 and am looking forward to 12.6
Did they quantize the model to get it working on HW3?
My 23 M3P does the same exact thing from time to time recently!
those with HW 3.0, please upvote if 12.3.6 was better for you in your car compared to 12.5.* winding roads, stop signs etc pretty bad for me while 12.3.6 was smooth.
Do you have FSD? From what I can tell it’s simply EAP with the ability to stop for red lights.
Driving like a grandma issue can be mitigated by pressing the accelerator a little while on autopilot. But I agree it’s bullshit.
The windshield wipers sometimes stutter as they rub against the glass. You: then sell the car.
Oh thank god. I think it told me 5 times in 6 minutes the other day when it was *almost* raining
Speed issues, sure. But "random speed changes"? Speed limit signs are irrelevant with V12.
They need to make the thing where they monitor you less aggressive, I can’t even look at my map now.
I notice 12.5 'catches' itself more on some turns and has more micro-stutters/twitches on backroads/non main roads vs 12.3, on hw3. horrible in the dark but that's expected
The upside to 12.5.4.1 is that certain yellow lights don't trip it out that did before. The downside is that there are new things that scare the car that didn't before. There's a bent caution cone in my neighborhood that fsd treats like a child ready to lunge into the road.
Why do you say speed limit signs are irrelevant for V12? honestly curious.
I feel like this will never change. "Can the fix phantom breaking" has been something that has been asked for what feels like a decade now.
Maybe they can also work on how quickly it accelerates and brakes. It gets up to the set speed immediately from a stop even if there is a red light or a stop sign a block away regardless of your mode selection.
Not at all. It'll stop for green lights too.
Yes I can't stand this and it is the biggest deal breaker for me. Unnecessarily flooring it to the speed limit after every stop sign or light just ends up going through tires faster. The other issue is that due to the cameras low resolution, I've realized it can't see very far. I can see a red or green light from 100-150 yards away and the Tesla is flooring it into a red light because it hasn't shown up in its vision yet. I don't understand why they can't just remember where the stops and lights are that you drive through every single day.
Yup :) so frustrating how smooth it was and now it jitters constantly for me and what’s with slamming on brakes on yellows? It was so smooth going through yellows if it was close…now even if it’s right by the light it will HIT the brakes drives me nuts.
Ah, that explains that. I’m terrified it won’t stop when I can clearly see a line of cars that I would normally coast and regen-brake up to, and the car is accelerating.
Opposite experience here with driving like a grandma: my car drives like a drunk 25 year old in an Altima. Swerving, flooring it from a dead stop, slamming on the brakes with very little stopping distance, just to name a few.
Because it's not hard-coded to go a certain speed like V11 and prior, and after you pass a speed limit sign, it's probably gone from the context window within 10 seconds. V12 looks at a sample of frames from the last few seconds of driving and decides how much to press the pedals and turn the wheel based on that.
Sama sama
At least for me, it is only indecisive when the light turns yellow just as I’m getting to the edge of my current intersection. It doesn’t know whether it can make it through the yellow without increasing its speed. I either push it through if I feel it is not too late or I rather it break than run thru yellows like 80% of human drivers do. I don’t notice this behavior if the light turns yellow and I am far away from the car intersection line. The initial decision human drivers make when they decide to go through yellows is made faster, but often the wrong/more dangerous decision.
not until V 13.x.x
And while they’re at it, phantom braking too
I get more phantom braking on v12 than on highways.
For me “poor weather conditions” = it’s night time on the highway.
How about when it’s just “night time” and the cameras constantly scream about being occluded.
Highways are inherently simpler, so there's a lower baseline of phantom braking there. When they switched from V11 to V12 on city streets, the reduction in phantom braking was very large.
If you're asking "when will the braking false positive rate reach literally 0%", the answer is obviously never. The realistic path of improvement is the false positive rate decreasing asymptotically towards 0%, which I believe is happening.
This is false. Watch the camera footage and you'll see that the light color is visible from very far away. Don't mistake software issues for hardware issues.
It's very fair in my experience. I can glance at the screen without any issue. It's only if I stare at it for several seconds at a time that I get warnings.
Cries in HW3
Weren't they supposed to be releasing v13 this month?
Didn't get me started on the number of times it's been going at speed or even accelerating on the freeway on a clear bright day with a massive wall of stopped cars and brake lights a quarter mile down the road, 12-15 seconds away. I tap the brake and force the car to start slowing down. It's not worth it to wager whether FSD will handle it correctly, and I want to ensure the cars around me will also slow down.
This is not false. I can see a green or red light with my own eyes (even a line of cars) and it has not appeared on the display. Happens all the time. Check it yourself. Now that's not to say the system isn't picking it up, it could be just not visually showing it and the software is ignoring it for UI/Graphic processing reasons. Either way our own eyes are higher resolution than the cameras and this software is a problem. Coasting the Regen is better than flooring it and slamming the Regen for every stop and go. The latest version is definitely smoother than the last but it's still too much for my liking and I personally want my tires to last as long as possible
It’s brake. Braking. Is this an American thing? I’ve never seen this mistake elsewhere.
The false thing you said is this: "due to the cameras low resolution, I've realized it can't see very far" I'm not disagreeing with you that the software is imperfect and sometimes it brakes late and/or harshly. But this is a very different thing from saying that the cameras are too low-resolution to see traffic lights or lines of cars from far enough away. *That* is false. Watch the camera footage and see for yourself. Traffic lights and cars are visible in the camera footage from very far away. So it's not hardware that's the problem; it's software.
Ah I misunderstood what you meant. I get what you're saying now. Thought you were referring to the graphics.
Nah, not the graphics. The graphics can sometimes reveal the same thing, but the true test is looking at the camera footage.
Same. Tonight after dark I even had it accelerate right up to the rear of someone going slower in the fast lane, only to suddenly dump speed to avoid rear-ending them. The safe thing to do would have been to reduce the separation between cars at a sane difference in speed. That encourages them to move over to let me by, rather than rocketing up to them and scaring them into doing something rash or dangerous. This is with it set to "chill", too. Not sure if that does anything.
Out of curiosity, what following setting are you using?
And the screen keeps announcing that attention monitoring is unavailable. Oh well, guess I have to go back to monitoring my attention myself, like always.
Random phantom braking, braking when approaching an intersection with a green light, speed refuses to go near the limit, hesitation when entering a turning lane, and more
Ahh, Pacific Northwest I see.
Anyone having connectivity issues with the car and app?
I hope they stop having “unnecessary lane changes” selected by default at the beginning of every drive.
Ditto. I got a strike for looking at my phone for a second
No, it still uses known speed limits as an input. There is a stretch of roads with bad data for just a block or two. The car thinks the speed limit there is 10mph, then it passes a sign that says 40mph, and the car goes a sane speed. Even with latest FSD, it refuses to go a sane speed in the bad data area.
Extra chimes today! ☺️
I had once where it randomly picked up 45mph while I am on the highway. Almost pulled out my hair.
That's correct, because there is still a hard-coded limit of 50% over the detected speed limit in automatic speed offset mode. But outside of those rare cases where the detected speed limit is so far below the sane speed that even +50% doesn't get you there, speed limits are irrelevant. It's not a separate input for the V12 neural net. It's just a hard-coded override that can kick in if +50% is exceeded by the neural net.
It’s a pretty common error. Our education system isn’t the best.
I’m on the FSD free trial and my car almost T-boned a school bus like it didn’t even exist. So that was fun. FSD is a pipe dream.
Yes! So annoying!
We should not be getting warnings for several seconds of screen looking when this technology could drive someone in their sleep.
So I’m confused, do I now just have full self driving? Or is this just temporary for everyone as a sales tactic?
What is phantom breaking?
There’s no defending what it does now at least in my area, compared to what it just did in the update before. It was superb at judging yellow lights for me. Just yesterday I was maybe 10 feet from the intersection going 40 when it turned yellow and it tapped on the brakes jerking everyone forward then proceeded through. Previous version knew at this speed and distance it was the correct move to proceed and just went about its day.
Same for me day one of the upgrade. Rebooted fully and recalibrated the cameras and it hasn’t happened since.
Yeah. On the highway it’s great to not have the nags, but anywhere else I think the decision making is too complicated- idk if it cannot gather enough data from far enough out or it cannot calculate the right solution for a given time, or it cannot change its solution smoothly when it gets new data….
The time before warning is at least five seconds. Do you know the distance travelled during that time where you weren't looking at the road? At 50 mph, you've covered the length of a football field from end zone to end zone in 5 seconds. It is still supervised FSD so yeah, look at the road, not your screen.
Another upside is my car hasn't tried to curb my wheels with 12.5.4.1.
Think of it more like an upgrade, side grade, or downgrade(depending on how it actually works) if you have it already.
My biggest complaint. Constant dinging the entire year
The biggest feature in this release will be End to End AI trained on highways. Say goodbye to hard-coded v11. Also, there are "Speed Profiles" that work only on the highway. Gonna be interesting.
Same here. 2018 M3LR.
No, it could not drive someone in their sleep. Hopefully it will eventually, but certainly not yet. That's why there are warnings.
Plenty of people have fallen asleep while on Autopilot. Just because there are warnings that say you can’t do it, doesn’t mean you physically can’t do it.
It's better overall in general, but speeds are still screwed up. 55 MPH 2-lane road, I'll set it for 60, and it will level off around 48-52. Accelerate back up to 60-65, then it will slowly come back down. Annoying AF. I normally only use TACC right now. If I knew then (2019 MS Raven) what I know now, I never would have dropped $$$ on FSD.
My God… that chime made me want to drive the car myself at times
“I saw a cloud, so you only get 65 mph…”
Yeah it got way worse with non-highway driving with 12.5.4.1
I’m going to have to try this
It’s a common error among people that don’t care to get it right
I couldn't use FSD at night on a highway at all because it kept yelling at me because it couldnt monitor the cabin due to inadequate illumination (no shit! It's night out!) and would disengaged FSD. Eventually, I just had to resort to Auto steer, which tbh is better than FSD because it is dumber and leaves control to the driver to do the right thing.
That's like saying plenty of people have driven themselves home while drunk. Just because there are examples of people doing it successfully doesn't mean it's safe. Autopilot/FSD is currently not safe enough to drive you around without you paying attention. That's why the warnings exist.
Laughs in Pacific Northwest So this will mean I can finally use FSD during the 6 months of monsoons right?…right?
Flooring it at lights is one of the most annoying things about FSD. It drives like me when I try to show off for people lol.
It’s safe, it just doesn’t have regulatory approval. The warnings are there for liability reduction, not because it’s unsafe.
This. When its total dark, it thinks the cameras are occluded.
No, it seems you only get 5ish warnings now. It got super sensitive. I went years without a suspension before.
I kept hearing 12.5 was a game changer - i've been using it the last week and it still sucks bad. Wife cringes everytime I turn on FSD.
I tried out whatever version they are letting you use for a month and couldn’t stand it on the freeway in so cal. I couldn’t use the carpool lane (far left lane) for more than a few seconds before it wanted to get out of the “passing lane “and kept trying to get back over out of the car pool lane Also sometimes it’s not the car pool lane but I keep passing people but it wants me to get out of the passing lane. And finally sometimes there’s just gridlock traffic, all 4 lanes. And it STILL wants to make an unnecessary lane change just to “get out of the passing lane” Also couldn’t get into the right lane to exit for more than 10 seconds before it tried to get me out of the far right lane either It also didn’t seem to like that I was wearing a hat and kept telling me on the screen, ironically taking my attention off the road I eventually just went back to auto pilot so it would do what I wanted it to do
Absolutely. This caused me to turn it off after a few miles yesterday. I know which lane I want to be in, thanks
No, it's not. Do you think if you let Autopilot/FSD go on its own it wouldn't get into a crash for hundreds of thousands of miles? Tesla themselves say that it's not there yet. It's safe when supervised, but it would be very unsafe if unsupervised.
Yes, I personally fell asleep driving a few hundred miles and woke up in a different state.
I swear the FSD degraded increases the rate of “pay attention” alerts and strikes I get. I can’t check the time without getting yelled at.
I still have got 12.5.6.0 - who has it?
People like you are why we can't have nice things...
Is there possibly geospecific subs for FSD anyone has found? Read a lot of various feedback both positive and negative, but would be great to get a location specific cross section when trying to determining viability with actual first hand assessments and problems locally. Especially with weather, any areas FSD struggles with here, local quirks etc.
>It’s safe lol
Yes I paid $10,000 for FSD software in Australia in 2023 when I bought my model Y
Imagine driving without windshield wipers. That’s your Tesla on vision-only driving.
FSD has been driving like a grandma since the v12.5 update last week. It will hover around the speed limit even on a wide open road, and even go a couple MPH under the speed limit. When I tap the accelerator to speed up, it will jolt forward and go 10MPH faster, then slowly come back down to the speed limit or less. It makes the whole thing borderline unusable outside the highway, which does not seem impacted by this issue. But what was wrong with the old way of going as fast as you'd allow it, adjusting with the right thumb wheel to go faster or slower?
My car has windshield wipers
12.3.6 was amazing. 12.5 has gone in lanes that take it completely off course of my destination and planned route, way more phantom braking, taking turns too fast and going into the other lane, blowing through a 25mph downtown at 38 with the "adaptive" speed control, and the cherry on top was when it was stopped waiting for a car to pass for an unprotected left turn and suddenly spun the wheel to turn literally as the car was directly in the way. Thank god I was gripping the wheel like a madman so it force disengaged, otherwise I might not be here typing this. It definitely got significantly worse.
Not in the cameras it doesn’t, with the exception of the one mounted behind the rear view mirror. That’s how your Tesla sees what is around it.
I have never owned a car with windshield wipers on the side windows and mirrors. Why would these be necessary?
It will never work without HW5
Not breaking, braking. Car will randomly slam (or "stab") the brakes for no reason. It thinks it sees something in the road I guess.
If you're talking about the pillars and repeaters ok, but I'm not convinced it would be needed here. A The cameras for the front are covered by the wipers
Ah yes I’m well aware of the phantom braking problem
Nighttime on city streets for me. It’s weird.
Overcast with dry roads is enough yo trigger several warnings about "Poor Weather Detected". Every time it happens I disengage FSD and report it, "car said poor weather detected, the weather is fine.". I mist have reported that exact sentence 100 times, maybe they're getting sick of me!
It’s less aggressive if you wear sunglasses
And yet FSD in rain freaks out…
And did it work?
Haven’t tried yet. Might have time this weekend.
Yup and reducing it sounds like they just programming it to say it less lol
It was nighttime strikes for me
Yesterday when it tried to pull into my house, it turned into the turning lane to make a left then slowly turned, but didn’t turn enough, the. Crept up until it got to the sidewalk just to the right of the actual entry road to where my house was, then stopped while parallel in the oncoming traffic lane. No one was coming so I just let it see what it would do but it just sat there thinking like a child learning it just did something wrong but didn’t know how to fix it. I feel fsd was better when I had the trial back in may when I bought jt. Still love my MY, but FSD is meh right now.
Yep. Almost died last night using it. First time playing with it and last time ever using it.
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