The Cybercab has a front bumper camera

Really makes me wonder if they’re going to retrofit a front bumper on HW4 cars at least. It feels like a necessity that Tesla is really trying to avoid.

[deleted]

I wish my Y had a front camera, the animations are good but when parking I much prefer a camera.

Great work on the stainless steel. Look at all those curves.

One can only hope. Would be nice to finally get a 360 parking view. It’s the one thing I miss from my prior German car.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Retrofit, for an existing car, to get new features?! That’s rich. Signed,me, from An Intel, HW3 vehicle. (And yes, I’m aware they used to, but they have no intention now days outside of like, CCS and electric trunk).

its not stainless steel. confirmed by Franz.

Perhaps carbon fiber wrapper with vinyl? Is that the consensus?

That’s lame

More than likely it's just a regular (non-stainless) steel body.

That’s not what others from the event have reported

Carbon fibre would make the 30k claim even more ridiculous

I'm open to being corrected. Where are you seeing these reports that it is made of carbon fiber?

Maybe they have some trickery to bring down carbon fiber costs. Don't forget they have experience with carbon fiber from the over-wrapped plaid rotors, as well as carbon fiber all the way back to the original Roadster. Also, they may be able to sell these at a lower profit margin and make it up later with software, like how companies sell a video game system at a loss because of course you'll also buy some expensive games. Also, they're probably counting on battery costs declining over the next 2 years.

I heard carbon through the grapevine. I think it might just be plastic though.

How l9ng have you driven without a front camera and it not be a necessity. The fascination with a front camera when you have sensors that tell you what you’re wanting to see is puzzling. Is parking that hard for some?

same thought. maybe it'll be the new normal

My car’s in the shop and the rental they gave me has a front bumper camera, comes on automatically when parking. Gotta tell ya, it’s pretty nice. It also does the 360 camera thing but I’m pretty sure we’re never getting that.

AFucl yo, Joing My Clan

Well it's possible. Saturn used to make most of their body panels out of plastic. The panels are quite dent resistant and cheap to replace.

Yeah, might be the right choice for this vehicle.

What do you mean sensors? They got rid of ultrasound sensors.

So the guys controlling it remotely can see 🤣

Didn't the early previews of the refreshed Model 3 have one too?

There is no way they would achieve this without the bumper camera.

Makes you wonder how they're going to achieve unsupervised FSD on the current cars without a front bumper camera, too.

I don’t think they have a solution currently. Their bet is probably on advancing technologies but I think there will come the day they will admit it needs a camera.

What if the camera gets dirty? Is there some sort of cleaning system from mud and dirt?

They’ll never do it camera only either.

When Highland first launched there was a bumper camera in the parts catalogue that got removed. So wonder why that was.

Yes.

Do you see any sensors on that robotaxi? Humans can park fine without sensors or a camera (most of them... ) A car, not so much.

Shut up… how dare you bring logic

Main reason I don't use any form of self driving in urban settings is because it will fly over speed bumps and potholes at full speed

What sensors?

Asking the real questions

They probably never will. But you can't tell people their current cars are obsolete.

Honestly, I do too. Especially to avoid scraping the front splitter on a parking block/curb.

[deleted]

The cybertruck has a cleaning system for the front camera, so probably yes

Yeah, CT has one one

Makes sense with the additional available inputs available on HW4 Anyway we are few year away from operations so they can change most of the details in the meantime...

It think we see part of Juniper here, the resemblance cannot be denied.

The bird view is the best tool I've tried to help me park the car.

I pray the new MY will have one

I wonder if the Y’s at the event also did. We’ve known for a while that camera placement on current models make some situations almost impossible for FSD. Nice to see they’re seeing the light and adding required hardware. LiDAR next maybe ?

Exactly

I don't really understand why they seem to be so opposed to this. They already have cameras all over the rest of the car, having one in the front bumper seems like a no brainer.

I agree it’s unlikely, but it has happened before. When I bought my model 3, it came with HW2.5. They upgraded me to HW3 for “free.”

They were photoshopped out a few hours after launch of the website.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/9dsxpmN9VrVZ9o9S/? Tasla

So where does the front plate go? Both me and my wife got pulled over for no front plate (Texas, both model Ys) and finally caved in. Even with a front camera retrofit it will be tricky. I wish we could get the vinyl sticker front plates like California.

This would partially explain the geofenced, 3-destination demo. They wanted to show off the 2-seater. They most likely can't port the current M3/Y FSD stack into this vehicle because the visual signals are just too different for the neural net.

I'm keeping my eye out for more HW5 test mule shots as they really are testing some different camera locations. If/when that becomes a reality, I'll probably upgrade.

Hahahahahahaha Do something they've done before?! Absurd!

The 2012 model S had a front bumper camera option too. Yes it’s clearly useful and Tesla has known it forever.

I’ve seen many Texas vehicles with the front plate in the windshield. Not sure how your local cops would feel about that though.

Yeah that’s technically illegal but most of the time cops don’t care. But I guess there was a big push recently considering both me and my wife got pulled over for it on different sides of the city.

if it’s not clear already, Cybercab will be hardware 5.0. (hence, late 2026) A suit of sensors go along with the processing power of the inference computer. There won’t be any hardware retrofits on HW4.0 just like there were none for HW3.0. The only Retrofit will be trying and fitting the software, like FSD12.5.4 which was built for HW4.0 and not doing great when optimized for HW 3.0. We will have to wait and see, but some of the earlier generation car owners will be disappointed

Because then all older models would be missing it and they'd have to admit only latest cars can do fsd

I just assumed these cars were all going to be obsolete within a few years and have no resale value until they are classics when I purchased. Part of the value is low/no maintenance and high mileage so I planned to keep mine for 20 years and not trade in.

Also in bad weather that camera is gonna get obstructed basically instantly, no?

Interesting point.

Unfortunately they'll never do that.

Those were the headlights.

HW5?

Cybertruck front camera is perfect for this. It was the only thing I disliked about my Y.

True l, but having a camera there that isn't obstructed most of the time is better than not having one at all, right?

I'm not sure which FSD you have, but V12 has been detecting speed bumps consistently for me (I'm on 12.5.4.1), and goes over them around 12-15 MPH.

That will probably coincide with the Cybercab rather than Juniper (under development Model Y).

This is how I'm understanding it too. I'd look to upgrade my aging 2020 Tesla Model 3 down the road. Even though they made FSD 12.5 work on HW3, the damn Intel Atom MCU is slow as fuk nowadays and missing out on other features. I'd be looking for the Juniper Model Y Performance though.

Yeah just put a washer like jeep does. Works great.

Right on the front bumper with adhesive. Nothing different from what the current Model 3/Y are getting...

Musk didn't claim Carbon Fiber and $30k. Hearsay from a YouTuber when they stated that Franz said the prototypes we saw are wrapped carbon fiber.

Yeah just put a washer like ~~jeep~~ the cybertruck already does. Works great.

I retrofitted a front camera on my jeep, without a washer, and honestly even that works great. It doesn't get obstructed nearly as often as you'd think it might, I've never had to clean the lens.

Countless other cars have front cams. The difference is that they’re not solely reliant on cameras.

Totally and absolutely unnecessary for a vehicle driving around the city

This is on the cybertruck too, right?

Nope, I regularly drive my EV thru snowing highways and farmlands, front camera hasn’t been blocked by snow or bugs. My EV does have Tesla like stereo ADAS camera plus, parking front bumper camera (plus a Dash/AR camera on windshield)

Not sure I agree with that. A car that can handle damage from excessive use, drunk passengers, etc would be useful.

Especially after removing parking sensors in the front of the car...

Lowest cost possible. The stainless steel body will never be on another vehicle besides the CT. Guaranteed.

I wonder does any of the Model Y at the show have a front bumper cam

“We’ve removed the windshield- we’ll rely 100% on cameras”

A wide-angle front bumper camera is a must-have, in my opinion, as a HW1 through HW4 owner. If not, it absolutely needs perpendicular cameras closer to the front headlights. Considering the RoboTaxi has one, the Cybertruck has one, and there were renders of the Highland with one, I hope it's an easy retrofit.

But no automatic camera cleaning. Are they really going to launch a driverless car with no way to clean its own cameras? It should also have Starlink to improve remote assistance coverage. Because it will sometimes need assistance, at least at first, and if it is in a cellular dead spot it will be stuck.

You paid for FSD I'm assuming?

cybertruck has one and it does have self cleaning.

They did leave an extra camera input available on the HW4 cars, and they at least used to be putting in the harness for a high resolution radar in case they ever wanted to use it.

Cross traffic alert, ultrasonic parking sensors, actual cameras for 360°, stalks for turn signal, there is a lot to miss on a new model Tesla. My 2020 has a lot of them but I’d seriously have to think about buying a new one

That’s why “free” is in quotes. But come to think of it…. I believe I got the HW3 upgrade before I paid for FSD. I would have to dig through my service records. My recollection is that I got the HW3 upgrade a few months after picking up the car in June of 2018. I got FSD during the $2000 fire sale. I can’t recall when that was.

[deleted]

Really? Is there a video of it cleaning? I haven't seen that

[deleted]

Have you been 2024 Model 3?

A camera and a wire going to that camera is hardly particularly complicated. If that needs to be removed to drastically affect the cost of claims, the problem isn't the electronics, it's the industry doing the repairs.

[deleted]

I’ve driven it (whatever the new plaid type is). It’s super nice, but the no stalks thing was seriously bizarre for my whole drive. I wouldn’t mind the removed ultrasonics if they had put a front camera. I’m also pretty sure it didn’t have an actual temp sensor any more bc temp shown on the display wasn’t accurate to actual conditions.

Yeah I really don’t get it. They make all these cost savings changes like removing sensors and radar, but then spend money on a rear display. I’d much rather have Stalks and a HUD

Yes, I believe the X/S have the HD radar installed on HW4.

Literally brands from as far back as 2014 have had cameras on their front bumper. And many brands since 2018 if not older have a top view camera. And both are very useful as cars continue to have poorer visibility with thicker pillars and aerodynamic shapes. Tesla’s windshield camera has a role to play (look at traffic signs and lights) but it’s being overworked to guess the distance from the curb for which it is not suitable especially with no parking sensors anywhere in the car. Adding either a bumper camera OR installing actual parking sensors along the bumper curve is the right thing to do.

[deleted]

I doubt it, but if they do they will likely ask for a charge.

You get used to stalks as now it auto selects most things. Even cameras work better now. Temp sensor is there, they added google weather info.

Front camera is coming to all models.

Now do lateral cameras in the headlight assembly so it doesn’t have to creep as far.

> And many brands since 2018 if not older have a top view camera. Infiniti first offered this in 2007.

> It feels like a necessity that Tesla is really trying to avoid. Many such cases.

A Redditor who prays?

Wow. That’s good to know. Yeah that’s why I said if not older. I’m sure some were way ahead of their times. Like the one you mentioned.

There is no way Tesla can do it without lidar. There is no way Tesla can do it without radar. There is no way Tesla can do it without USS. There is no way Tesla can do it without HD mapping. There are graveyards full of rich, smart people who's only mistake was betting against Elon.

[removed]

Nah. The older cars can't even do current FSD because their hardware is old. There's already a difference in capability.

They’re not going to pay the patent for a 360 view

They still claim it will do it on hw3

[deleted]

That I can believe. But there are plenty of HW 2.5 or older cars.

I didn't get used to the buttons during my drive. Sure I might over time, but not a fan of having to press them while turning the wheel, which sometimes happens. At least the buttons on the new 3 are haptic and feel good. The ones in the Cybertruck I drove felt horrible and cheap.

It is hard to get used to something during one drive, but I have Model S for a year and it is fine. Horn was bad but they changed that, rest is something you can live with. These days automatic gear selection works good so you dont really have to seipe on screen a lot, i like it better now that wifes 3

They used to, I believe they stopped, but still keep the harness connection. They have the harness on the hardware 4 Y as well, or at least did when they made mine.

Silly rabbit. You really think your car is going to get additional cameras or sensors? No car, even HW4, is going to be self driving, without making you pay for those extras + install. I'd be willing to bet HW4 can't handle true FSD either. It'll likely have to be HW5 with all the new sensors and cameras that current models don't have, and 6-10 years from now .

The red brown fox.

Sounds like profiling. i have had a jeep with no front plate for like 8 years now

But they get upgraded if they buy fsd

Not completely. I was a 2.5 HW car.

I wonder if it has a frunk

Ok, so let’s assume that the price is $30k for pre orders. If I pre order it at $30k and the price goes up before it releases, do I pay the $30k I originally pre ordered it at? Or do I pay the price it gets adjusted to after I place my pre order? I know this was the case with the cyber truck where it was priced lower than what it actually was at launch

Why wouldn’t it?

Why? Because there's not a single other consumer car that can do what a Tesla does. Saying it's just a lvl 2 product is like saying the first touchscreen was a gimmick, now look where we are.

[deleted]

Alright, let's discuss this properly. Here is a comparison between Mercedes' and Tesla's driving systems: [https://youtu.be/h3WiY\_4kgkE?si=3nRQbMs8J-6i5\_k9](https://youtu.be/h3WiY_4kgkE?si=3nRQbMs8J-6i5_k9) I'll let you decide which is a more competent system. Waymo and Cruise are in fact doing what Tesla has been working towards, but here's the thing. If Tesla were to launch a taxi today, the only thing holding them back is regulation. If they dropped the requirement for driver attention and caused an accident or get stuck they'd get absolutely trashed by media. When this happens to Waymo it barely gets attention. I'm not mentioning cruise because I don't believe they're relevant. Here's more of what FSD can do: [https://youtu.be/il5q8vBFZa8?si=PcUPFgiEXbH6dN2f](https://youtu.be/il5q8vBFZa8?si=PcUPFgiEXbH6dN2f) AI driver has been doing this for years and is largely unbiased. You can see the improvements to FSD through his videos.

[deleted]

You're forgetting USS existed

Could you explain why it's absurd when media backlash leads to negative public sentiment which leads to regulation hampering development.

Yeah so was I but now a hw 3.

[deleted]

They removed those to save manufacturing costs. Not quite the same. Repair costs are rarely borne by Tesla

So will the model Y refresh 😉

They admitted it for 2/2.5 ages ago, there was an upgrade program to retrofit them with HW3. HW1 is just screwed. It’ll be interesting to see what happens with 3, Tesla can’t just abandon them and say they’re not powerful enough. Well, they can, but it wouldn’t have a good outcome.

thats whats keeping me from buying a model 3 right now. if a Y comes out with the cam in q4/q1 I want it. do we have a source on that?

it answers the question of whether the cybertruck had the cam just for driver convenience, or for FSD.

the cybetruck one is 180 degrees so should cover that

do we have a source on that? we dont know why highland is missing it do we

of course, you can easily google it

Dunno about obaelwte. Just rightfully pissed they paid, like me, for a software that was never delivered.

There's no sign of performance difference yet between HW3 and 4. The only tangible difference is not having to wait longer for FSD updates to be optimised.

I think HW3 can go as far as maybe FSD v14. But even then I don't see how much more FSD can be realistically improved from what's already capable today on 12.5.4 besides the upcoming refinements, highway unification, reversing etc. Future updates past v13 are going to reduce interventions. I don't see updates stopping unless we see HW5 on the Juniper Y have extra hardware the current HW4 cars don't have.

Never mind the hardware components, does it have actual FULL Self Driving, or is it remotely controlled?

I think the Tesla truck is ugly

Unfortunately, it’s all speculation at this point. We could potentially get a design similar to Cyber Cab for the Model Y, or we might see a design like the Highland Model 3. But if you’re a fan of the Model 3’s style, I wouldn’t wait and would definitely buy it now. A front camera shouldn’t be a major deciding factor, haha! It’s nice to have, but it’s not essential. I’m only waiting because the Model Y is great for camping and has a lot more space inside. The Model 3 is to tiny for the plane I have for MY.

It would be nice to have an el Camino version. Bench seat with 6 foot bed and a large frunk. Wrap that in stainless steel with an electric tonnue cover and battery back optimized for city driving.

It’s probably both. I’m sure FSD is intended to be implemented for the Cybertruck, but there are probably a lot of kinks to iron out and red tape to work around. The Cybertruck is massive compared to the other models, making the margin of error considerably smaller. A tiny mistake by a Model S or 3, for instance, might not cause any harm, while that same mistake in the Cybertruck could potentially cause a devestating accident. The design of the Cybertruck might also cause problems for legally implementing FSD. While it’s probably relatively safe for anyone in the Cybertruck, it’s sharp angles and heavy weight might cause severe damage to anything it hits.

Auto open and close frunk + front bumper camera for all

I’m curious what they’re going to do with those of us who were also sold FSD if we upgraded from HW2 to HW3. Given the way it was all advertised at the time, it came across like at some point they would make good on what we were sold. Now it sounds like they’re hoping we’ll transfer our FSD to a HW4 car and not think about it. I personally have no reason to take on a new car note; my ride is paid off but they’ve yet to fully deliver what was advertised.

Can someone explain to me why Tesla is so against a front camera? Seems like a pretty big feature to not include. I can’t imagine it’s that big of a cost cutting measure.

Oh absolutely especially because sharing parts/assembly lines/platforms is one of the ways that tesla is able to up the efficiency on manufacturing

What if it’s just some dude in India driving it lmfao