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It's also up because people are starting to realize that Tesla has done amazingly well despite EV competition and other automakers sizing down their EV plans because they can't do so profitably. Other automakers are increasingly looking toward Hybrids but it's a short-term plan that will doom them long-term. Ford, Rivian, Lucid, XPeng, LiAuto, NIO, etc., are all getting destroyed out there. European luxury automakers such as BMW and Benz are having serious problems, particularly in China. I have relatives in China. People who wanted an Audi, BMW, or Benz no longer give a shit about those brands. They want domestic Chinese brands. 50% of VW's profits are from China... they're fucked. Tesla is still holding out really well and is the ONLY automaker that can reduce EV prices and still be profitable - which is what most of us have been saying the past year. Once interest rates are back down again, Tesla will benefit the most. BYD is the only real competitor in this space which is fine because everyone else seems to be a distant third. $300-320 by 10/10. Assuming the delay for 10/10 was to introduce a new vehicle outside of the Robotaxi, I can see the share price holding until EOTY. Would love to see the new Roadster. Cybertruck isn't everyone's cup of tea but you'd have to be a real hater to dislike the Roadster.
My tint/wrap guy had 4 cybertrucks sitting waiting for wraps lol. They are selling just fine at 100k
I don’t think roadster moves the needle much for an 800b company though? I have a hard time seeing how prioritizing roadster fits into profitability or company mission
That's great to hear. Not sure what % of CT owners are wrapping their trucks, would've been an interesting number to look at.
Ford really fumbled their 1+ year EV truck head start.
https://preview.redd.it/bf2sdxd1itqd1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ca302833ded0f7424afbbc11c9aba883e7f91660 Only bad people dislike this thing.
It'll just boost the brand image and jolt the racing circuits.
For all of the insane shit this stock has been through, it has been fairly resilient. Not sure when we'll get back to the admittedly silly ATHs from a few years ago, but I think we'll get back there sooner or later.
Gotcha. It’s hard to assess the brand image right now with the election going on and the ceos involvement. I think election ending will be the big improvement in image
from what I've read they couldn't make a profit on the lightning despite prices at $150k and sharing the majority of parts with the ICE version, minus the traditional power train and components.
TSLAQ assured me it was going double digits by EOTY… what happened guys? Is the internet connection in your mom’s basement not working?
It’s crazy that people will just keep denying the fact that Tesla is still doing well. They’re just mad that’s the case I guess. I’ll continue to buy Tesla, I don’t see a good enough reason to go with any other MFG.
I see more Ford Lightnings than I do Cybertrucks on the roads.
How do you configure a Ford Lightning at $150k? Most of the used ones I've seen retailed for like 60k.
You see more of a vehicle that has been being made for 3 years than one that has been being made for 0.5 years? Shocked.
Anecdotal but I have zero desire to wrap mine. I love the stainless steel look. Reminds me of a Delorean.
And it's up an exciting 1.7% YTD
I know quite a many people who owns T$LA but have no idea about Tesla energy, Optimus, FSD/software & insurance.
Hyundai-Kia are absolutely real competitors in EVs. They are doing very well on sales and getting rave reviews. They have an exciting road map for a bunch of new models. And they are growing gross profit margins and operating margins while expanding EV production. I think you've ignored the Europe market entirely as well. Lots of European auto makers are killing it on EVs in Europe.
There's a whole world of stocks outside of auto makers. You don't have to buy any of them. They tend to be poor businesses because the gross profits are meager and they are cyclical, capital intensive businesses. There is no requirement to invest in autos.
Buy the rumour. Sell the news.
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In socal I see exponentially more cybertrucks, but it might just be because they stick out so much. I notice more Rivians than Lightnings but I do see a bunch of Lightning work trucks all over.
Because they’ve existed for a lot longer, the cybertruck is selling at a higher rate but it’s not going to instantly have the most trucks on the road, but at the rate it’s going, it will.
Some tard in /r/wsb wanted to buy puts yesterday because they think deliveries are down lol
Roadster is a rounding error. It's a cool product. Doesn't change anything really.
I dunno some of those wraps look really damn good
Buy the rumor sell the news
European auto makers are killing it in Europe? VW has two cars in the 10 ten and they are not profitable.
3 months ago is like <$200 in June?
That roadster is vaporware how many years since it’s been announced and he took peoples money for something that doesn’t exist.
> I think you've ignored the Europe market entirely as well. Lots of European auto makers are killing it on EVs in Europe. Not really. The reason why VW is talking about layoffs in the tens of thousands and Stellantis is starting to shop around for a new CEO is for the exact opposite reason, that things are not going well especially in the transition to EVs. Squeezed on the high end by Tesla and the low end by BYD and the other Chinese companies. One of the few who is doing well is Volvo, and that’s a Chinese company and “European” just for marketing purposes.
What GM is selling the 200 kWh Silverado should give Ford, Tesla, and especially Rivian, pause. 96k for that much battery puts the others on notice. The Cybertruck will have a long run simply because its looks are the selling point but for all intents and purposes it does what it needs to be, a Tesla that always gathers attention
BMW and VW Group (VW, Audi, Skoda, Seat, Porsche) sell more EVs in Europe than Tesla does. You're looking at sales by individual models but these companies share battery platform and technology and supply chain across many models. So it's better to look at total EV sales across models. https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/08/23/bmw-overtakes-rival-tesla-to-take-the-top-spot-in-european-ev-sales#:\~:text=BMW%20overtakes%20rival%20Tesla%20to%20take%20the%20top%20spot%20in%20European%20EV%20sales,-An%20iX%20electric&text=Sales%20of%20fully%20electric%20BMWs,year%2Dto%2Ddate%20sales.
BMW is doing very well in Europe and recently passed Tesla in sales. All while maintaining their profitability. https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/08/23/bmw-overtakes-rival-tesla-to-take-the-top-spot-in-european-ev-sales#:\~:text=BMW%20overtakes%20rival%20Tesla%20to%20take%20the%20top%20spot%20in%20European%20EV%20sales,-An%20iX%20electric&text=Sales%20of%20fully%20electric%20BMWs,year%2Dto%2Ddate%20sales.
This company still deserves better leadership than Elon Musk. Will still give credit to his crazy innovative ideas but his recent behavior is completely unacceptable for a CEO
150 was the max I had heard, especially during the height of covid. I believe their sales have dropped off dramatically
As for VW's supposed woes. IF they were to layoff the rumored 30k employees out of their 700k global employees then that would be less than 5% of total employees. Tesla laid off 14% this year (so far) and 10% in 2023 and they were praised for increasing efficiency of the business. Why not do the same for VW lol. Their financials look just fine and their gross profit margins are largely unchanged. Operating margin has dipped a percentage or two from 2021 but some layoffs should help there. They have better gross margin than Tesla now and essentially the exact same operating margins now btw.
lol that’s with dealer markups. Ford makes money every time one gets to a dealer. Dealers don’t buy more since they mark them up.
The battery presents a problem: profits. The battery is the single most expensive item. At 96k, they will always make less(assuming it will be profitable soon) than its competitors.
Most car companies competing in the high end/luxury space invest in having a halo product, even if the volume is very small. The brand awareness and free organic marketing for the entire brand that comes from a product like Roadster makes it more than worth it, especially with Elon probably launching one into space/onto Mars etc again.
It's doing well *now*, but how about in 4 years time? Like, there's been no new models announced. Like, the S and X are still using a platform 12+yo with design deficiencies baked in.
Well, they didn’t exactly have a much of a choice. The truth is the F150 lightning is a stop gap vehicle. It’s not like they had a research and development team already figuring out EV‘s for years, they had to scramble with whatever they can get commercially from suppliers. And they slapped on the body of an F150 straight on a standard skateboard architecture. By all means, it’s not a bad vehicle at all and in fact that it looks like a regular F150 which is seen as a positive. However, from the very start, there were limitations like the DC fast charging was subpar when it came out, the drag from the pick up track shape impacts range, more dramatically than others. I am, however, excited to see what their true top to bottom EV designed vehicles will look like and how will they function, 2026?
If only Elon would STFU
What happened with the model 3? They redesigned it. I don’t think they’ll keep the same platform forever. I’m sure they’re gonna find ways to make changes.
Ford doesn't get the dealer's markup profit.
>Plans for new vehicles, including more affordable models, remain on track for start of production in the first half of 2025. These vehicles will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up. https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/IR/TSLA-Q2-2024-Update.pdf
Imagine you have a super power but unfortunately it's to be able to recover from repeatedly getting kicked in the nuts really hard. You sort of become well known for it.
VW talking about closing a plant in Germany for the first time in 90 years. Sounds like the opposite of “killing it” unless we are talking about killing jobs in Germany.
Sounds like a company making smart choices to improve their operating efficiency. Why is Tesla praised for laying off 14% this year and 10% last year yet VW is demonized for closing down and laying off unproductive parts of their business? VW's gross profit margins haven't changed at all really and are higher than Tesla's now. Operating margin has dropped 1-2% from 2021. They now have the same operating margins as Tesla.
Problem with the lightning is towing. Most of the F150 crowd like that capability even though they won’t use it lol. And most are scared of change and dealing with low range while doing it
I’m gonna call it 50/50 just from what I’ve seen on the road here in Phx
fr
I've seen a bunch that are wrapped in black and they look amazing. A few other colors look decent, but the black looks amazing.
ok and?
They didn't redesign it, it's just a refresh
My friend’s truck keeps breaking down. He hates it.
Ok, where are the test mules? Like we only just recently caught glimpses of the Juniper refresh.
A really good refresh.
Sure, but *only* a refresh, and one that was behind sched.
It still launched didn’t it?
So then I guess they don't need the subsidies they're the German government for? https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/news/volkswagen-mercedes-benz-bmw-face-trouble-due-to-weak-chinese-demand/amp-41727139535086.html Even VM themselves admit they are "no longer competitive" financially. Are they demonizing themselves? https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/business/volkswagen-brand-no-longer-competitive/index.html
Business is business. They'll take whatever subsidies any government will offer just like any other business will. I'm talking about global VW Group BEV sales not just China. The financials don't lie. They have the same operating margins as Tesla and better gross margins than Tesla.
Question: Is Tesla also in failing because they've laid off nearly 25% of their work force the last 2 years and their gross margins have tanked 35% and their operating margins have dropped by 60%? [https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/profit-margins](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/profit-margins)
Well there is a lot of inventory on lots (at least by me) so I can see how some could think that.
> BMW is doing very well in Europe and recently passed Tesla in sales This is why cherry picking leads to misleading outcomes. Tesla on the other hand is poised to pass BMW sales **globally** either this year or the next at most given sales trajectories. That’s why looking at just sales in Europe, which is a declining market where 3 million fewer cars are being sold compared to 5 years ago is not a great way to get a comprehensive view of the situation.
Tesla is definitely not passing BMW in global auto sales any time soon. They are on pace to have negative or flat growth this year. And they have no new models aside from low volume cybertruck that isn’t even enough to offset the decline in sales in US and Europe. That being said BMW’s market cap is also only 50B so it is priced fairly. Tesla market cap is 16x larger with less sales.
> As for VW's supposed woes. IF they were to layoff the rumored 30k employees out of their 700k global employees then that would be less than 5% of total employees. Tesla laid off 14% this year (so far) and 10% in 2023 Again cherry picking doesn’t provide the full picture. The “rumored 30k” was rumored just for Germany, not total. Tesla did “layoffs” while their employee count continues to increase globally. VW is increasing employee headcount at most ~1.5% if at all these years. The reality is structurally VW is not doing great in the US where it’s not selling well, it relies on the European market that over the last decade is contracting as the economic situation in Europe continues to deteriorate. And it has relied on the Chinese market for growth, where its market share is now declining. The prospects are not looking good, at it seems to me like you’re making excuses and not facing the serious reality facing you. The near and long term prospects are worrying.
It go up. I buy. It go down. I buy. It go sideways. I buy.
You’re the one cherry picking with vague statements like “structurally not doing well”. Reality does not support these statements. VW US sales increased significantly YoY. US sales were up 30%+ YoY in Q2. They are on pace to get back to 2021 US sales volume this year after a big decline in 2022 due to supply chain problems. The reality is VW has higher gross margins than Tesla now and the same operating margins. The prospects look just fine. They will sell ~9M vehicles in 2024 and China is a minority of their unit volume. And China isn’t a big profit center for autos anyway. The big profit centers are US and Europe.
I doubt GM makes any money on these trucks.
I guess agree to disagree and we’ll see in the next year how things go. But I think you’re hiding your head in the sand to avoid looking at what’s coming.
> VW US sales increased significantly YoY. US sales were up 30%+ YoY in Q2. There you go again having to pick a specific quarter to try to get the numbers that look good, while the yearly global picture again paints a different picture: https://www.statista.com/statistics/272049/worldwide-vehicle-sales-of-volkswagen-since-2006/
You were the one talking about US sales not doing well. That was blatantly wrong as they have increased significantly YoY and have recovered from the 2022 supply chain issues. YOU are the one who tried to cherry pick the US market and say it was weak but it just turned out you happen to be incorrect.
And it's not just a specific quarter. VW US sales in the first half of 2024 were up 7.5% from first half of 2023 and they are on pace to match 2021 unit sales. So the temporary decline in 2022 due to supply chain issues is completely resolved. US sales are doing just fine they are not weak as you stated.
The US market is weak. A few quarters bouncing back does not negate the decade-long trend.
Agreed, probably sooner rather than later tbh
The reality is Tesla unit sales in the US declined in the first half of 2024 while VW's grew. Yet you want to point out how weak VW is and not address Tesla weakness.
And what long term trend? VW Group unit sales the last 4 quarters are back to where they've been the last 12 years they've fluctuated a few percentages here and there outside of 2022 but they've been very steady. [https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/volkswagen-group-us-sales-figures/](https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/volkswagen-group-us-sales-figures/) Please try and use data and not pull stuff out of your rear end.
Yes, better late than never. But once again, the lack of upcoming models, Semi way behind schedule, the Roadster being vaporware all doesn't paint a great picture for the future.
I don't care (I'll never be able to 'afford' one, at least not without bankrupting a retirement account) but my reply to the OP is that is indeed one of the sleekest looking cars (even amongst prototypes) to have been created.
🚀🌕
The Robotaxi mule was spotted like a week or two ago. There was also mule that is likely the smaller car a few weeks/month ago. It was a smaller wheel base with model 3 shell ontop of it. you could tell because the wheels were not in the center of the wheel wells indicating a shorter wheel base.
And it’s up 1485% in 5 years
Matt Black and [Matte White](https://www.teslaoracle.com/2024/05/17/isiah-simmons-of-the-new-york-giants-nfl-wraps-his-cybertruck-in-pure-white/) specifically look great.
Cool.
Omg.. this is the most asinine argument! The Tesla cars are all constantly updated both in hardware and software. Your argument says that the best way to maintain car sales is to make sure you change the label on the back of the car every few months. I get that idiots buy the latest object because it’s the latest but how about we discourage this bullshit behaviour from companies rather than insist on it.. /rant
Wow haven't seen the white in person. That looks amazing. I'd happily pay whatever the cost if I got a cyber truck because it looks way better with those wraps.
Imagine how much higher it would be without Elon antics
Without Elon it would have gone bankrupt ages ago.
you’re making a point about their margins at 150. the company isn’t recognising profits at 150, they’re recognising profits at whatever price they sell to dealers. therefore, ford’s margins would be higher if they were recognising the full profit sold at 150
40% in 3 months but 2% this year.
Model Y is close to being the number one sold vehicle in the US for this year. https://wolfstreet.com/2024/09/20/tesla-model-y-now-a-hair-from-1-bestselling-model-closing-in-on-toyota-rav4-former-1-ford-f-150-is-3-stellantis-plunges-off-greed-cliff-ev-share-rises-to-9-0/
Perhaps that was true 7-8 years ago. In the past 3 years -- and certainly in the past 2 years -- his behavior is definitely destroying value. He's completely distracted and he's doing nothing to help create value or grow the market. Most potential EV buyers are put off by his horrible behavior and are looking more closely at Tesla competitors. Some hold their noses and still buy Teslas because they're great cars; many choose the competition instead. They're still selling cars. But they would be selling many more cars if their delusional CEO wasn't focusing 90% of his energy alienating the literate college-educated people who constitute the target market for high-end electric vehicles.
They're the most popular EV brand in the world but an armchair reddit expert says they should change leadership.
The towing and range is a legit problem for many truck owners. The whole reason I have a truck is so that it’s convenient to haul stuff. It’s a 6 hour drive to where we hunt. 8 if you’re pulling something and have to make an extra stop for fuel. With the terrible range current EV trucks get while towing, it’s a nonstarter. I can’t pull a boat to where we fish without having to stop and charge where any of us could currently go there and back on a tank of gas easily. Not to mention if your job involves pulling stuff on a trailer, you’re screwed. For day to day city driving, it would be fine. But with current prices for limited range when you actually needed it, I would rather have my old V8 for doing truck stuff and an EV daily driver.
It's not complicated: Tesla is selling a lot of cars; but they would sell many ***more*** if the CEO wasn't actively alienating millions of sober adult customers. He's totally distracted by the social media platform he owns. Like millions of little people who follow him, he's the victim of his own algorithms and the tragic addiction of social media. It's like the scene in Scarface where Al Pacino is face down in a mountain of his own cocaine. Social media--*and twitter in particular*--is toxic to humans. He is not immune from its effects, though he is immune from responsibility and repercussions due to his power and wealth. I trust (based on your lively defense of Elon Musk) that your own views are heavily shaped by social media algorithms. Am I wrong?
Well some of those literate college-educated people need to get their heads out of there superior elite self prescribed moral behaviors and recognize others are smart and moral too. Then politics takes its place at the back of the line.
Totally right. Meanwhile I get downvoted for facts lol. I have two EVs. Love em. But towing is not their strong suit
I am happy that not every company or every person, like Musk, value sales above all else. I am happy Musk is willing to risk billions in advertising profit from the corporate/government machine to fight for free speech by standing not for profit, but rather for our freedom to see 2 sides and make our own conclusions.
I think we are both arguing the same thing and that is Ford isn't making a profit on the lightning
Defending Elon Musk is the opposite of popular sentiment on reddit. I am sharing opinions actively discouraged by the algorithm on this social network. You however, are speaking in line with what 95 out of 100 Redditors would say. Which of us are really being shaped by the social media algorithms here?
What behavior specifically?
Have you seen his tweets recently? Him threatening to impregnate Taylor Swift? Does that not ring a bell?
No it doesn't, do you have a link, and not one to media reporting but Musk saying?
Sooner than later*
I think the buyer demographic for the Ford and the Cybertruck (as well as the Rivian) are far enough apart that this doesn't have much of an impact. Particularly when looking at how sales are still supply constrained.
I don't do social media -- excluding Reddit which I use for specific communities of interest. I've been subscribed to r/teslamotors since 2015 when I bought my first Model S. I read books, newspapers, and long format professional journalism that has credible standards, oversight and editorial policies. I am not shaped by social media influencers or social media platforms at all. I'm an adult and I don't fawn over oligarchs.
Says the one parroting what every other musk hater says on this website. /r/iamverysmart
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They look good but don’t last. Shelf life is 3 years or less. Cost of maintaining that wrap every few years for me is not worth it.
Oligarchs indirectly control the medias you trust, the ones who want to censor their opponents. Like that Brazil judge, but less overt.
a nuclear by-hand version of the roadster that works on Mars
I’d buy a roadster now if it was available
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Sure Elon
His behavior attracts conservative voters who previously discounted ev’s. It’s brilliant.
You mean this? https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1833728804579111268?s=46
That's my thought...is this shift in behavior a ruse? Left wing sales all tapped out, many were going to big auto's UAW run EVs once they start actually making half way decent electric vehicles. Maybe he wanted to unlock the other half of America and get them into BEVs?
You see a bunch of rivians and cybertrucks in LA. I think I notice more cybertrucks than rivian trucks though. That Rivian SUV though, that thing is everywhere
He literally had the algorithm rigged so that more people would see his tweets and the right-wing propaganda he is so keen to share. The man thinks emotional men and ALL women shouldn't be allowed to vote. He's insane.
Elon Musk is a fraud. It's clear from the frequency of his tweets that he is addicted to social media and spends very little time actually working. AT MOST he is a part-time CEO at Tesla at this point but I doubt he spends more than a few hours a week actually working on anything.
Just did a quick search to find the rigged algorithm but can only find a few hit opinion pieces, no fact. Do you have links, not to main stream media hit pieces but facts?
Just searched the voting issue you mention and found that he responded "interesting observation," to a theory concerning critical thinking, hard to conclude he supports voting restrictions from that, but good enough for someone's opinion piece.
Sorry, I only have links to vetted, credible, corroborated reports from credible professional journalists from the "main stream media". :(
The X algorithm is open source.
"While the source code reveals the underlying logic of an algorithmic system, it tells us almost nothing about how the system will perform in real time, on real Tweets. Elon Musk’s decision leaves us unable to tell what is happening right now on the platform, or what may happen next." [https://www.wired.com/story/twitters-open-source-algorithm-is-a-red-herring/](https://www.wired.com/story/twitters-open-source-algorithm-is-a-red-herring/)
He is only fighting for his own bias - which he openly displays.
Most people here don't understand what you're saying is 100% correct. Most of the stupid antics of his are unforced and unnecessary.
Do you actually know any conservative who bought a Tesla because of Elon Musk or is this just a conjecture?
absolutely not
no its not 4d chess
the ppl here are the same ppl who fell for nfts. most of the engineer types that supported tesla left years ago
As much as Elon doesn't want to admit, it was carbon credit floated Tesla.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-stock-jumps-on-q3-earnings-beat-202258345.html
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