That’s some mighty fine clickbait headline writing, Fred.
For those who don't want to click thru it's autonomy, the missing word from the headline is autonomy.
To be fair, autonomy in the context of Tesla is pretty stupid.
Oh yeah, it's just muskrats latest vaporware promise.
The Model YL just isn't a good car, its coupe SUV body style makes the 3rd row uncomfortable for adults because the seat is low in order to get more head room and your head is touching the glass. Its also such a lazy attempt at a 3 row SUV, all they did was make the Model Y a little longer and the car looks ackward as a result. Unless this car is priced very low it will not sell in the USA
So Tesla is going to spend money tooling up a new model in a shrinking (for them) market and not offer it in the US because of “self-driving”. Does a car driving itself negate the existence of families, friend groups, or car pools that contain more than four people?
Because of robotaxi? He thinks people are not wanting to ever drive again? No, it's because it would eat into the current Model Y sales and kill the X permanently. And if I remember correctly, the X isn't sold in China or Europe anymore. The YL will take it's place as a 3-row SUV.
If you’re listing its faults, you can’t leave out that “legendary” Tesla design and manufacturing.
It’s crazy that people still believe that teslas are going to magically drive them selves next year lol. There’s a tiny company called comma ai that basically uses a phone chip and a few cameras that does level 2 better than Tesla at least on the highway while costing 1k. Meanwhile Tesla has lots of cameras and all this specialized hardware and still sucks.
Wait because it does or does not have autonomy?
When they write the eulogy for Tesla, the title will be, “Oh, you think that’s stupid? Watch this!”
This strategy somewhat makes sense. Even in a shrinking market china has a bajillion people. So my guess is Tesla rather have a smaller piece of a larger pie than a big piece of a smaller pie.
Because autonomy is coming very soon. fElon pinky swears.
It’ll destroy the MX market.
And the US does not care
Is the reason Elon?
>The CEO’s belief... Ummm...Technoking doesn't really believe FSD will ever work either.
No way, oh no. What’s this worth, another 8 bucks on the share price?
Who the fuck here is waiting for robotaxi? And why does a company as big as Tesla stop doing everything else in hope for robotaxi to work?? Do you know how many products Microsoft makes?? At this point its a leadership problem and its on the board. Hire a fucken manager! Its not a startup anymore!! I personally think he is trying to get it approved in the current administration.
Dumb that it can't be a limo
Boycott Tesla. Release the Epstein files.
Real reason is probably saying it's coming means it would cannibalize model x and potentially some model y sales while people hold off for it. Ill bet it comes out here.
Your complaints are all valid for the regular 3 row y. Isn't the point of the extended y to fix those issues? If it doesn't then yeah it's pretty dumb. America yearns for 3 row suvs. Tesla Is really missing out by not making one. The x doesn't count, nobody wants to spend that kind of cash, they don't want the crazy doors, and the x just isn't that big.
Is it because we hate Nazis?
Cancel the X. Make the existing C cheaper by taking shit off like the doors and give it Y looking fascia on the front and re do the trunk. The X already sells so bad they don’t say how many they sell. Just give it a new face and keep rolling. The new Ys backseats are still going to be too small
Making the Model Y longer didn't fix the 3rd row headroom issue, and it isnt long enough to have a good amount of 3rd row legroom. I do agree that if Tesla wants to succeed they should've at least tried to sell it here.
Even if all teslas will drive themselves flawlessly there still might be, you know 6 people who want to go somewhere together at the same time
Your gentle reminder that ketamine causes brain damage.
Tales and steal anagrams of Tesla and F-elons favorite things
Both GM and Ford ADAS implantations are just as good as Tesla’s on the highway and can be used hands free; more importantly they are more consistent in their operation. Not only do they need to contend with the local competitors but companies like BYD have quickly caught up with Tesla, and have done so by undercutting Tesla on price.
Exactly. It just wouldn't sell well in America. Especially when Tesla sales are already cratering. People that want that kind of space here want something like a minivan or a Suburban, not this half assed attempt. Will it even sell more than an embarrassing amount in China? We'll find out soon.
Comma is limited by the torque the wheel is given. Even the strongest torque isn’t near as steering as teslas. It’s only fair to be honest about the strengths. Tesla can handle much tighter turns than any other car I’ve driven.
Oh well that ship sailed for me 3 years ago. I wasn’t supporting his company any way
Perhaps the real reason is that MYL hasn’t been crash tested to US standards and therefore designed to compete with cheap Chinese EV with similar lack of crash testing?
Fred continues with the banger headlines.
The X is a minivan anyway, Tesla design is allergic to making actual boxy SUVs either because the lead designer can't think outside of the "fatter version of an existing sedan" box or he's not allowed to. Meanwhile Rivian and other makers eat Tesla's lunch by making actual proper SUVs that have good functional shapes.
The Model YL isn't even that, its a repackaged Model 3 that's obese as hell and has the ugliest proportions possible because of it. Coupe crossovers have some form of ground clearance, the Model Y doesn't and thus sitting that low to the ground it looks like a weirdly vertically stretched sedan. It looks absolutely heinous.
At some point in the next 5 years Vinfast will surpass Tesla in sales of 7 passenger vehicles.
And no one at Tesla will shed a tear.
Have you ever even experienced a Tesla with self driving? I’m not claiming it is perfect, but I have literally let it drive me 30+ minutes to work in traffic and didn’t have to take over a single time. While I love the idea of an open source add on for any car, I 100% not use that Comma system as it stands right now. It is a good start but it has a LOOONG way to go to catch anyone else right now.
It’s so funny because all those Tesla X account like Sawyer Matt have been talking non stop about it for the past week. As if it’s surely making its way to the US in the next few weeks. They just willingly pump the stock all the time…every week another thing to keep it up
If you can’t handle me at my worst, you can’t have me at my slightly less worse
And since it’s completely camera based and from Tesla, there will be enough causalities that you won’t _need_ more seats for very long.
You can’t blame him for using FSD (supervised) as his one and only hype tool when it’s made him the richest man. He’s never been properly punished for being a dumbarse.
Usually the long wheelbase versions for China aren't about a third row anyway. They are done to give the back row an executive feeling with more legroom and just overall more space.
As I'm parked next to a boring looking white one at the moment, the standard Y wasn't exactly a looker.
Can anyone explain to me why Chinese with a 2 Child Policy needs a car with 6 seats ?
I guarantee Musk himself has forbidden them from doing an actual SUV. Cause that would make it even more obvious what a piece of shit the Cybertruck is.
But why? The Birthrate in the US is 1.6 Children per Woman. So how many Families are there anyway who need to transport 4 Children or more in their car? Not that many. Maybe it’s time to give up on your pathological fixation of „bigger is better“.
No they’re not, Tesla “FSD” is not perfect but much better than GM or Ford as ADAS systems (GM or Ford will never be autonomous driving systems), but Tesla not as good as Waymo as a driverless taxi. Yet. Or ever. Who knows.
That’s the biggest nonsense indeed. It’s business 101 to pursue innovation only if you have a steady (or even growing) revenue stream from existing products. And many products, diversified. Going all-in on innovation is so crazy, it can only convince members of a cult. No wonder Tesla has the lowest percentage of institutional investors among large caps. And I’m sure most are not exposed directly, either delta-hedged, or managing ETFs (like Cathy Wood who is always bullish with other people’s money).
As a generalisation, extended Chinese families like to bring the grandparents along for holidays and trips. So the parents go in the front seats, the grandparents go on the middle seats, and the two children go in the rear seats.
America yearns for mini-vans. They like to pretent they're cool and want their mini-van to look like some amazing off-road capable vehicle. Even though it'll never see as much as a dirt road. Most modern SUVs aren't even off-road capable. Tesla included. (And I include the cyber-trashcan in there too)
It makes total sense from the Business perspective to invest in this in China where LWB-Versions of existing models are a huge success. And now comes the true answer to why Tesla won’t sell the Car in the US. It’s not Autonomy. It’s the Trump tariffs. Elon is trying to suck up to this Admin again, so he can’t mention this.
> 2 Child Policy China actually has a 3 child policy now.
1.6 children per women is way higher than China and most other countries in the world
Nonsense. They have heaps of regular Y and untill they shift through most of it, the MYL is not coming. After that , with the fanfare, it will be announced.
Well, when you have believed for 10-15 years that they will drive themselves "next year", you might as well keep believing it. Eventually you might be correct, although that may take another 10-15 years of believing.
That and how many people need 3 rows of seats. Families are getting smaller, not larger. For transporting small groups of workers, get a real van.
I was on vacation this summer and tahoe's and sequoias are Everywhere. Even saw a few families in sprinter vans. I'm guessing you don't have kids, because even just 2 kids is enough to want a 3 row suv.
Because Chinese families often extend further than only your direct descendants.
It eventually will. The same way Highland and Juniper made it. Tesla just wants to avoid people pausing their purchases because the next thing is coming.
3 row SUV = station wagon Search *Vista Cruiser* for more details
Not really relavant in 2025. I grew up in a Chevy 3row station wagon before minivans were a thing. How many station wagons are for sale now? How many have 3 rows? Maybe 1,and it's expensive.
LTT enjoyer I see
Elmo always overpromises and under delivers. His cult just accept his wokeness.
The man is a fucking idiot!
Children have friends.
Its tariffs and probably costs so much to retool in the US when there's really no need since tesla doesnt have many true EV competition. People are going to buy the same slop. Whereas in China they have BYD and a few others, so they have to always iterate. And yeah, the tariffs definitely do not help.
I think the YL will absolutely come to the US. Musk is bullshitting about autonomy because he doesn’t want to hurt sales on the current Model Y.
So what? My Kid has friends to, but I do not transport them all the time somewhere. Those kids have Parents too.
You serious???
Good. We don’t want it here or you either Muskrat.
There is your mistake RIGHT THERE. Letting your kids have friends. Elon Musk is the example we should all follow. Zero friends sleeping on the floors of factories, then the world will be the Utopia we have been promised.
Tesla’s system is more capable in that it can be used on a wider range of roads, GM and Ford limit their full use to only roads that they have pre mapped. However all three systems are categorized as level 2 ADAS and due to the additional sensors in the Ford and GM vehicles and the pre mapped LiDAR data the experience with Ford and GM is a lot more consistent. These systems while more restricted in their use are also safer and both GM and Ford allow hands free use in a lot of areas, something not available with Tesla. Bottom line is you can use Tesla’s full self driving in a lot more situations but the experience will be very inconsistent and you will need to take over more often than you would in a GM or Ford vehicle. GM and Ford are a lot more limited in where they can be used but in areas where their full use is available they are just as good if not better than Tesla, while also being more consistent in their operation and safer, while also permitting hands free use.
I’ve said for many years, Tesla was so profitable because it used the same old models for so long, but it will be its downfall. Legacy cars manufacturers know you have to constantly freshen up your models, that cost money, and a lot of it. The cyber truck disaster is a huge setback and I don’t hear that many analysts talking about what it’s going to end up costing them in the end. Tesla is in deep shit.
I think the reason they are building a car that's more aerodynamic, rather than boxing is to obtain a good driving range. And if they make the car boxer, it would cut down the range which means they will need a bigger battery and a bigger battery will increase its price significantly.
> Tesla’s system is more ~~capable~~ risk tolerant… FTFY
Very true.
The Model Y, Loser Edition, is stupid in first place. Only fitting the excuses match the car
Wealthy people can afford to have more kids and kids have friends. Wealthy people tend to also be the ones buying new cars
You dont even need a Suburban or Tahoe for a reasonable 3rd row. Something like a Dodge Durango is enough for most 3rd row buyers, or a Toyota Highlander, etc. There's plenty of 3rd row buyers who just want a mid size crossover with a decent 3rd row. The Model YL doesn't have a reasonable 3rd row due to its coupe SUV body style
Who cares. Plenty of other options to choose from at a higher quality bar IMO.
The YL won't come to the US because the rear seats are awful.
Yup - boxy design is more for legacy and looks (Range Rover and Subaru still do this). Maybe even because manufacturing chain already in place.
To be honest I tried to sleep in the Y but it felt like being in a coffin. I couldn't even sit up straight w/ the second row seats down. It felt suffocating. When my partner layed down next to me it felt even more clostrophobic. My partner's Forest feels more roomy inside because of the boxy design. Still, none are ideal as a camper as far as I am concerned.
Outback?
Maybe a Sprinter van
Hmm Harder to drive those but def more comfortable.
Plus the Chinese people are in general much smaller than Americans. I'm 5'2", and while visiting China, I was average size for the first time in my life!
Sure but like what Rivian did there can be some compromise in building a functional boxy SUV. Even being a proper and functional SUV the R1S gets anywhere from 270-410 miles. Tesla's main issue is that they went too far chasing range numbers and sacrificed good design for ugly blobby sameness. SUVs are meant to be boxy, the fact that Tesla just phoned in their sedan designs and called it a day and never did anything more is honestly embarrassing. Its the most egregious with the 3 and the Y, they are visually the same car and stretching the 3's profile just creates a visually unappealing frog like blob.
Haha, I guess I am not the only one who sees the frogs (from the back side at least). This is how I spot Teslas on the Road. I literally never saw a Tesla until I decide to buy one. Then they are suddenly everywhere.
Yeah, all Tesla models for the most part look very similar. They started with the Model S, and then made the Model 3 a smaller version of the S with a worse interior. Then they made the Y a taller version of the 3 with a hatchback and coupe SUV body style. The KIA EV9 can get between 230 miles to 305 miles with the long range battery plus RWD. Tesla absolutely could've sacrificed some aerodynamics to make a boxy SUV that's a proper 3 row. The Model Y already has pretty good range too begin with
So you think wealthy People in Europe have no kids or their kids have no friends? Just admit that you have an Obsession with big cars. Because the bigger your car the „wealthier“ you look to your neighbours. It’s just ridicoulus. Look at Pictures of three-row-cars in Classifieds. You almost never see any wear on the seats in the third row because they never where used.
Do they work on the streets pretty well?
Thank you for summerizing it
These are level 2 ADAS designed for highways, you’re not using them on your standard roads. They are not going to recognize stop lights or stop signs and they can usually only be engaged over a set speed limit. On highways they work just as good or in a lot of cases better than Tesla. They adapt to traffic, handle stop and go situations, recognize construction signs along with adjusting speed by recognizing speed limit signage and change lanes to get around slower traffic. They are also using pre mapped data and as a result are a lot more consistent in their operation which is the key differentiation between them and Tesla. The GM and Ford systems rely on pre mapped and pre analyzed LiDAR and mapping data meaning they know the topology of the road beforehand. These systems also use a combination of cameras, radar and sonar to sense their environment. Combined the real time road data with the pre mapped data and you end up with an extremely capable system that’s able to navigate highways extremely safely which is why these systems can operate hands free. Tesla on the other hand while being more capable meaning it can be engaged on a wider number of roads and handle navigation is also a lot less safer. It relies on cameras alone and must navigate in real time using Ai systems alone to both handle navigating the environment but also sensing everything around them (keep in mind it’s going this with cameras alone, no radar). As another commenter pointed out the Tesla system is more risk tolerant but that has come with a cost, namely safety and it looks like this has finally caught up with them.
Per the NHTSA, GM reported 55 ADAS2 crashes, Ford reported 29, Tesla reported 2308. Now, there likely a lot more Teslas with assisted driving, so more accidents isn't unexpected. On the other hand, the NHTSA is investigating Tesla for drasticly under-reporting accidents. I suspect that with an accurate count of Tesla accidents, and normalized per 1000 miles driven, Tesla's accident rate would be higher than GM or Ford.
Someone in China, I think it was a radio station, got permission recently from the Chinese government to completely shutdown a section of highway where they tested all cars with any level of autonomy and threw everything they could think of at them. They included all the Chinese cars with lidar etc. and their Western counterparts that are available in China. Guess who came out on top? I'll give you three hints: 1 it starts with a T 2 ends with an a and 3 they only use a vision system. These threads are hilarious to read.
Tesla’s system does really well in a lot of places, not so well in others and then in others it tries to drive you into a barrier. Because Tesla relies on cameras only and real time Ai along with getting frequent beta quality updates it’s very inconsistent. So it’s entirely possible for it to excel in one area trouncing other systems while in a completely different area it coming in middle of the pack.
Don't forget a bigger battery costs more. Rivian is a beast that I may never be able to afford within the next ten years. I only have the Tesla due to a lease promotion, w/ the help of families. I'd rather have a car that I can actually drive, than a perfect looking car that I can never afford.
Oh yeah that addon kit? They did a great job then.
I already ordered mine
FSD v13 works better than anything out there in about 99.99% of the time. People highlight those 0.00111 edge cases that Tesla is diligently working on reducing and claim that FSD doesn't work or OP above thinks they think it will magically will work when it is working. Just look at the constant announcements that FSD is approved in various countries around the world. Most recently Japan. Perhaps he thinks as the saying goes that a technology sufficiently advanced appears to be magic to the average person.
Just look at the disaster that is the RoboTaxi down in Austin; that’s basically FSD. Now compare RoboTaxi to Waymo. Tesla is trying to solve an extremely difficult engineering problem and trying to solve it by intentionally handicapping themselves. Waymo is doing fully automated driving better than Tesla and will continue to do so until Tesla wakes up and starts using radar and LiDAR. Other manufacturers such as Ford and GM are doing ADAS better than Tesla not because their systems are more capable but because their systems are better for the consumer. The Ford, and GM systems are now on par and in some cases better than Tesla when it comes to highway driving and both support hand free driving and both have a significantly lower body count.
What disaster? What are you talking about? Have you ever "driven" a Tesla with HW4? Have you driven the Ford/GM/Mercedes systems that are "better" than FSD? The robotaxis have been operating in Austin since June and a few weeks in California. I have not heard of any disasters at all. All I am hearing is people reporting how wonderful the rides are and how much better than Waymo. The most "serious" incident I heard of was where the car wanted to go through the railway crossing when the arm started coming down. But even for that there is no video and we don't know if the car would have actually hit it or tried to stop. I imagine the saftey monitor stopped the car before it had a chance to react i.e. stop. In the meantime elswhere....Waymos are actually crashing into each other and fire trucks. Explain to me how a less competent system is better for the owner? I am having difficutly with that one.
Basically their market in US is shrinking fast, long term future outlook is ground ZERO
Fair statement. When you sit in a car running high speed driven by a robot. “Higher risk tolerant” is a death trap to you and another others who you share the road with.
It’s like they have no idea at all when they say fords lane keeping radar cruise control is just as good. Lol my Tesla self drives 100% of the time point to point garage to destination
You’d think for someone with so many kids, he’d understand the need for more seats.
*Just look at the disaster that is the RoboTaxi down in Austin; that’s basically FSD* I Live in Austin, and I'm not aware of it being a disaster? I haven't ridden in one but have driven around them. I find these weird pissing matches over "THIS ONE IS BETTER THAN THIS ONE" I've ridden in a Tesla HW3 FSD for hundreds of miles in a shot without intervention in 2025. HW4 is a lot more powerful, and HW5 is going to have a shit ton more (20x the TOPS). Have a friend who had HW 2.5 and it honestly sucked there. In 2022 it was basically a drunk teenager who tried to kill you every 15 minutes. The advancement is stunning. Waymo is also gaining ground. Everyone keeps pretending one vendor will "WIN" or I SAW A REPORT THAT 6 MONTHS AGO XXX VENDOR SUCKED, is kinda ignoring that billions in R&D, and advancements in silicon is going on in this space, and pretending it's a static problem for either automaker who have the capital and cashflow to deploy to solve it are stuck with a very fixed thinking mindset. I think the real "Danger" to any of them is in 5 years we have 3-4 good AI models for self driving cars that are 10x safer than Humans and can work with (Vision, LIDAR that will then cost $50 a sensor) and the competitive advantage/money to be made from it is a joke. Meanwhile solid state batteries will cost $5,000 and get 1000 mile range, using 2 cents per KWH generated by (Solar/Fusion/Battery) power and its all so cheap all of the vendors go out of business in a race to the bottom. THIS is the real doomsday scenario for Waymo/Tesla. Self driving cars are too cheap/awesome and basically turn into commodities like Android cell phones.
Is writing a normal sentence magic for you?
America years for the Yukon Denali. Tesla should make the XXL instead of the YL. Hell, give it six doors. Two suicide doors on the front (because why not, that's why!), gull wing doors in the middle, and sliding van doors in the back. Go BIG or go home!
The reason is probably due the 'Osborne effect'. Announcing a product too soon can potentially kill the sales of what's currently on the shelf. It's better to say nothing or it's not coming and let the current inventory flourish. Me? I'm waiting for the '27 US Model YL Performance w AI5...
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