New MY competitor: Rivian R2

Could you live without FSD when it goes unsupervised? It’s a shame us Aussies don’t even get a choice of Rivian but I’d be flat out going to any car without FSD capability in future.

Great question! I will tell you when I’ll try it!! We are all looking forward to unsupervised although the continuous delays make me nervous

The fact they’re rolling out cabs / taxi’s in the US that are unsupervised now suggests it’s bloody close. Maybe not for us but Americans for sure!

As someone with an r2 on order, I really doubt they’ll hit that 45k price or at least in the beginning. Though I was planning on ordering whatever their version of the performance is, which I would expect to be ~60k

Please tell us something once u get it !!

My cousin is regretting buying a Porsche ev which is 4x the cost after driving a Model Y Juniper for 1 day. lol. Tell me when Rivian R2 has volume sales like Tesla. I will take a look then!

yeah i mean paying 4x the price to have to drive all the time is rough

I am also a reservation holder for R2, looking for my first EV purchase within the next 12 months. My choice is down to R2 and Model Y. Honestly, I *really* want the R2 to be a fit for me. However, I have major service concerns after lurking Rivian-centric subs for quite some time. I feel like Rivian is where Tesla was 10 years ago. Even the most rabid fans admit they spend lots of time with service tickets and weeks/months long appointment queues. As someone who owns cars for 6+ years and purchases new, this gives me great anxiety.

New to the EV space and wondering how difficult is it to find chargers for Rivian on a road trip? Doesn’t seem as abundant as the Tesla chargers.

You can use Tesla chargers, the R2 will come with the same port that fits Tesla. The only Tesla chargers not available are ones marked in the app that are Tesla specific . And yes, Rivian, has quality control issues , way too few service centers ( and R2 isn’t even here yet), lack of replacement parts, and rental issues when your car is on hold in service for weeks.. other than that they look good.

If you could live without FSD, maybe you’ve lived all this while without truly trying it.

I don't think it will be a direct competitor in the next 5 years. Nobody knows the pricing yet, but my guess is that it will slot just above MY. Volume will be relatively very low for a while. I think we will see the first offerings at $60-65k and the lowest spec a couple of years closer to $50k, not $45k. So, while you might get an R2 at MY pricing, you will be comparing a premium MY to a budget R2. That's not to say that choosing the R2 in this comparison is a dumb move, but rather a choice based on personal preference, not on specs or capabilities. Tesla is 9 years ahead of Rivian if you look at the core architecture of MY(M3, released in 2017) compared to R2 in 2026. I know that doesn't practically mean a literal 9 year advantage today, but it does mean that they have had a significant amount of time to refine the product, it's manufacturing, and supply chain. This allows them to add more value, keep the price lower, and have more flexibility to adjust to the competition and remain profitable. Rivian is about to enter "production hell"(M3 circa 2018) through which they might not make it. I hope they do, but it's not guaranteed.

I work with a number of Rivian owners and every one regrets the purchase and has multiple issues with them requiring long service stays

Service concerns are very valid. Rivian is having a hard time with the cars they have now. Add in a new volume R2 and you need to expect lower than par service experience. Plus the R1 owners are likely to expect a faster turnaround time as they paid nearly double the price over an R2.

It’s been bloody close for 15 years, they say.

Does it have FSD? Nope.

It’s going to take Rivian a while to scale and overcome growing and production pains. I’m rooting for them because more appealing EV’s is a good thing, imho. But it’s not enough for Tesla to rely on FSD as a key distinguishing feature. Tesla must continue to innovate in the consumer passenger vehicle space. As nifty as FSD may be, most people won’t be able to justify a $100 (or more!) ongoing monthly cost. It’s cool, but it’s a mere luxury. If Tesla tries to rely on FSD alone it will lose. I hope it doesn’t.

This is the primary reason why I’m avoiding for now. Consumer reports have them at least reliable and if you go to rivian subreddit you will see every owner loves the brand but admits it’s common to need service. Considering the closest service center to me is 3 hours away I’m not dealing with that.

I’ve used FSD for years. I could live without FSD. It all depends on what your driving habits are. I live much closer to work now and I fly 99% of the time instead of a long road trip so it wouldn’t be a big loss for me.

I need to be able to test drive it before buying something. If the R2 is as good as they say, I’ll likely upgrade to it myself.

As someone who loves the car but hates the CEO, I welcome the change

You can use SOME of the Tesla superchargers which helps. But in all honesty if you do a lot of road tripping I wouldn't recommend anything but a Tesla to you. Hopefully things get better in the near future.

I was in this exact boat in January. Put in an R2 reservation around October. Wanted a new car soon. (Had a 2012 Audi on its last legs). Test drove the R1S and the guy at Rivian said if I like Tesla FSD, don’t even bother with Rivian yet because it’s so subpar and if I want the fully loaded R2 with LiDAR and all the bells and whistles…to plan for late 2028. So I got the brand new MYP AWD, Tesla gave me more for my Audi than anyone else offered, kept my R2 reservation and never looked back. Couldn’t be happier with my decision! Probably a Tesla lifer now!

I’d rather have then delay it then release prematurely. Let them take their time, which is what they’re doing anyway.

Yea no way they stick to that 45k MSRP. Also R2 is a little bigger than the Y right? I really like the R3 but I don’t know if that will make it to production anytime soon

If you’re here for self driving; there is no consumer competition for Tesla. They are the only proper option. Competition is needed; I hope Rivian and others catch up so Tesla has to step up their game.

I really wish Rivian the best, their money bleed has been terrible but I hope they can get through that and get to profitability. The R2 looks amazing and exactly what the EV market needs, I really hope they can meet that $45,000 price even if that's just going to get you two-wheel drive base, that would still open up a whole new segment of buyers to Rivian. I'm no Tesla hater, I drive a Model Y everyday, it's an amazing car. But the R2 looks to me like what Tesla should have built instead of the Cybertruck.

Curious why you say this? Their latest announcement and webpage update still states 45k. I'm genuinely asking.

Really, every one of them? I test drove an R1 right after buying my Tesla, I was impressed with the power and I liked having a truck bed back there, but overall the experience was lacking compared to my Tesla as far as smoothness and polish. It's hard to describe but the Rivian kind of felt like a engineering project while the Tesla feels like a finished product.

I wish Tesla and Rivian product lines merged so I could drive an R1S with Tesla FSD.

Fsd is only reason I'll never leave Tesla

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The R1T is what Tesla should've built instead of Cybertruck.

It's good to have options. iX3 and the Volvo EX60 also both look promising though they're way more expensive.

Most Tesla drivers don't actually used FSD and the fact that Tesla gimped the free driver assist software that comes on the cars makes Teslas worse than most competitors if not subscribing to FSD. If you're using FSD, then it's an advantage. If not, it's a major disadvantage.

This was Tesla early on too. I love my MYP and looking forward to upgrading to a new one later this year but Rivian is the real Tesla threat imo. They’re catching up technology wise and build quality/materials remain better than teslas. Scale and pricing is still their hurdle.

Looks good.....but, Rivian has made about 42,000 vehicles (total). Tesla made about 1.4M 3's and Y's just last year. I'm wanting to buy a model that has a whole bunch made.

Most people don't **need** FSD, but I really don't want to drive any car without it for longer than a few minutes.

Who gives a shit. Tesla screwed themselves out of FSD with me when they took away the option to toggle cruise control or FSD on my 2026 model. FSD is cool, but cruise control is what I want most of the time. And if subscribing to FSD means that I can NEVER use cruise control, then screw FSD. FSD is dead to me now.

My model Y was totaled last summer, and I had planned to wait until the R2 came out and just share a car with my wife for six months, but then I realized the tax credits were ending and I got two worried about pricing so I bought a new 2026 model Y at the end of September. But as the R2gets closer, my buyers remorse is getting stronger.

Better hope Rivian doesn’t go bankrupt near term though. I would not be comfortable purchasing now until they can show they can turn that corner.

I so wish I had a dollar for every "I think this will be a serious competitor to Tesla MY" it never pans out, lol.

Right?

We have a YP and a 3P. We’ve been an only Tesla family since 2018. I have a friend with an R1S and it’s really nice. Yeah, a few tech things are lagging behind Tesla, but the build is great and I love the details and features they build into their cars. It’s a quality vehicle. We’ve had an r2 reservation since day 1 and are ready to trade in our Y for a new r2 if everything is as good as it looks like it will be. I love seeing Rivian charging and service centers pop up lately. They are coming along and I hope they succeed.

Completely agreed, following that with the Tesla equivalent of what an R2T would be (I wish there was such a thing!), which I would happily have bought. A smaller EV pickup is exactly what I want.

I've also used FSD for years. I could live without it, but I don't know if I could live without at least basic autopilot. That really was a huge QoL improvement for me.

Not buying a car where the company loses money on the sale.

Fair, pickup trucks are red hot sellers and will be for the foreseeable future. And it's now painfully obvious the Cybertruck design, despite it's specs, was so off-putting it tanked sales, C.T. was a swing and a miss. But since it seems doubtful there will be a gen 2 C.T., those who have one now might see them worth more money one day, you never know. But when I said that I meant they didn't need to build a truck at all, but instead a more boxy upright 2-row SUV, which is honestly what folks seem to want the most right now, a Tesla version of a Rav 4

For what it’s worth, I own a model Y and a Rivian R1T and I am looking to get rid of the Tesla because I love my Rivian so much. The model Y has been a solid car though overall.

> Rivian has made about 42,000 vehicles (total) ~42,000 total **in 2025**. [Approx 175,000 since 2021](https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMw_da7e5200-5ae8-45f5-bf9a-ab47d5b025b8).

I love my Model Y and really like the R2. I'm rooting for Rivian to succeed with the R2. My hope is the R2 gets more people to switch from an ICE vehicle to an EV.

They literally said they don't care about FSD.

You should definitely not get the first run, the first run of anything always has some kind of issue

As soon as competitors have FSD alternatives, I’ll look outside the brand. Rivian’s design is much more appealing to me. But I can’t give up FSD

Then why would they buy a Tesla? It’s literally the defining feature.

I am an MYP owner with an R2 reservation. Looking forward to some competition!

Man, that’s crazy to me. I frickin love FSD. Rarely ever drive without it.

Because it's the best EV out there and the supercharger network. I could care less about FSD.

Fyi my buddy has an rt1 and he says the self driving is MILES behind tesla. So take that for what its worth

As someone with two Tesla's and a Rivian lurker, the service situation is concerning. I've never had a single problem with Tesla service. If they can have a mobile tech do it, you don't even need to be home for them to fix it. Longest I've sat was about 2 hours for suspension component replacement under warranty. They even offered me a car to drive to get lunch but I didn't take it. Rivian introducing a new car, comes with new car launch problems. This thing will probably sell very well. Their network can't handle what they currently have. So you're going to overstress that. God forbid they have some sort of major issue. Then it's game over. Only inconvenience I've ever had from Tesla was a 2 week wait time on parts for a hit and run. Other than that, Tesla certified shops are just as good as the dealers. In 2-3 years I'll see where Rivian is at. I want to like them.

If ever there was going to be one, I think this will be it. I say this as a multiple Tesla owner.

supercharger network doesn't matter anymore, now that every major manufacturer has abandoned CCS in favor of NACS and can use superchargers now/soon.

I was really dissapointed that Tesla took away auto pilot ( beta) from all new vehicles. I don't want to pay an $100 subscription every month for FSB. I was going to buy a new Tesla and instead have decided to wait to see what other manufactures are offering in the future and my Tesla is paid of anyway and in good shape.

Agreed with this. I've enjoyed FSD when I've had it (two trials, a couple loaner cars I had for multiple days, and a couple road trips in my friend's Y with FSD), but it's not necessary. I'm perfectly content with basic autopilot with autosteer in my M3LR. THAT is what's irreplaceable to me. I can absolutely tell a difference in any drive over an hour long when I take my Tesla vs my truck or my wife's car. It's incredible to realize how much stress it is to manage every microadjustment in your steering wheel on even a fairly short drive. This is why I think Tesla royally screwed up by eliminating autosteer from new vehicles last month. I love my Tesla, but it's pretty hard to call them cutting edge tech with moves like that. The company we all think is going to give us self driving cars honestly can't come up with a better solution to their arrogant name than to drop that feature to a level on par with 8+ year old vehicles that cost $30k back then?

heard this one too, so funny

Too bad they removed the overhead handles. This is the only thing on a Tesla that really bothers me. My aging parents have nothing to hold onto when I drift my car...

There are still a lot of V2/urban sites that aren't open to 3rd parties.

They will do well if they can deliver reliable R2’s.

NACs is the standard now everywhere though… Whatever floats your boat though. 🤷

EVERY CAR EVER MADE has lost money on the sale, until enough of them are sold to recoup the design costs. If you have ever purchased a car in the first year of it’s release, you purchased a car where the company lost money on that sale.

It won’t though. The rivian software isn’t as refined as the Tesla Software, which is the thing that keeps it ahead of the competition. And I say this as someone who is interested in an R2. But I’ll likely pass unless it has a 5000lb tow rating.

Not all Tesla sites are open to non Tesla's and they charge more. So easy driving in and simply plugging in. For me it matters.

As long as curvature assist keeps trying to hurt me I want to get out of Tesla. It's ridiculous that they haven't addressed and fixed it yet. R2 for the win.

No FSD is useless. Getting new car and feel the rush will only last a short amount of time until you realize you have to go back to driving manually.

Having Tesla without FSD is pointless. $100/month is like a night out dinner or couple days of Starbucks. I’m constantly amazed that’s something people are getting stuck on, and we are talking about a 50k model Y.

I have a MYLR and a reservation on a R2, Keep in mind that $45k would be the lowest trim, smallest battery and RWD. AWD, decent battery, decent specs closer to $60k+. Rivian will have a version of FSD and a better version with the lidar version of R2 coming out near end of 2026 early 2027. If important, I'd wait.

The issue is the subscription. Tesla used to have Autopilot (cruise control + steering) for free. They got rid of that. This means that Teslas actually have some of the worst driver assist of any new car if you're not paying $100/month for FSD. $1200 a year is a lot of money, especially when the free Autopilot my Tesla has handles the trips where I actually want the car to drive without a monthly fee.

And new Teslas don't have Autopilot, either. They only have cruise control included but no steering assist.

5 week wait time to get a slot at my local Tesla service center

But again, you have to really want to use it because just like FSD, if you turn it on you can never use cruise control.

we have to wait and see when the R2 will actually be available for delivery

I’d argue FSD is the future for Tesla. They will one day stop selling cars to consumers and will simply operate a fleet of autonomous cars that will serve the needs of 95% of consumers.

I bought my $42k model y because I wanted an EV, but part of justifying that expense was lower total cost of ownership. Insurance costs have gone up substantially, so that’s eating away at planned savings. If I stack on $100 per month for FSD that isn’t that great (I have HW3, unfortunately), I basically lose the fuel savings. Add in the additional cost of tires because it’s too fast from a stop and I have a lead foot, and I’m now spending more for my EV than a comparable gas car. I get what you’re saying, but most people aren’t doing $20 Starbucks visits all the time and I don’t want to trade a dinner out with my wife to pay for a sub par FSD. FSD on cars below HW4 should be $20-50 per month.

It won’t happen when you feel sleepy

Yeah. I’ve just paid the monthly fee ever since they started it vs buying the overpriced up front one. I tend to only keep a car for 3-4 years, so monthly made more sense.

First deliveries before end of Q2.

I don't get why everyone assumes Rivian will figure out how to manufacture efficiently and reverse their massive cash burn problem overnight. Tesla did it which was an extraordinary feat on the M3, I feel like people take it for granted. Great looking EV I hope they pull it off... need more options to consider when Ive paid off my model y in a few years

I don't think CT will appreciate in value because of the tens of thousands "sold" into fleet use, like at SpaceX. You need supply scarcity and demand to drive up value and there's no real expectation of either. While I don't disagree regarding Model Y styling, it's still a phenomenally successful vehicle. It will be recognized as a historic change in the automotive industry for what it brought to the masses at an affordable price point and leadership's politics have impacted its sales way, way more than the design philosophy.

They’ve removed the $45k starting price, so launch price will probably be higher before dropping down. Still, competition is good, though! https://eletric-vehicles.com/rivian/rivian-quietly-removes-r2s-45000-starting-price-before-pricier-trim-debuts/

Love the look and utility of the R2, but… No FSD = hard NO on a Rivian.

And also because most charging is done at home or locally.

I totally understand that $1200+ a year FSB subscription isn’t a problem for many well to do customers that can afford a $50k car. I’m retired pensioner and all of these subscriptions being pushed on us all add up each month. Removing autopilot ( beta) feature from new Teslas means that if your don’t pay for FSD, you don’t even have basic cruise control that ice cars have had for 30 years. You have to drive the car manually. I was literally ready to upgrade to a new model Y( pay cash for it) and found out that I would be stuck paying a subscription for fsd forever. Not having it. It is the principle of never ending subscriptions where we don’t own anything is not a path I want to take. I’ll drive the old 2021 Tesla model 3 standard plus til other manufacturers catch up and buy a lower cost EV from a competitor. I’m happy with my Tesla. Not happy with features being taken away in newer models and the move to forever subscriptions. Tesla is pushing away buyers in my humble opinion. I’m still a Tesla stock owner , investor but I feel if Tesla continues to take away features for Teslas and move to subscription based car features, it will further lose market share. It’s not about the cost for me, it’s about subscriptions, I object to.

If they offered a $20 day pass, I'd use it but $100/month would be a huge waste for me. It's really a shame Tesla removed steering assist from all new Teslas unless you pay extra for FSD, which means the average new Tesla, from factory, has worse driver assist than a $25k Kia.

Yeah, it's unbelievably stupid you can't toggle through assist levels. It's a big reason I won't subscribe.

Completely agree.

I'll believe it when I see it. I remember Cybertruck had like a 10-unit first delivery event (***November 30, 2023)*** and then delivered only like 100 trucks in the next few weeks

exactly, if it works at scale they'd make far more per vehicle than with consumer sales

Agreed, Model Y is iconic at this point, an incredibly capable car that ticks a lot of boxes at a price just reachable for the middle class. The design is unique enough to be recognizable but not off-putting like Cybertruck was. It's a great car, that's why I own one. Whatever your personal politics, there's no denying Elons forray into politics hurt sales in the US. But legacy makers struggles with EV production has kept customers coming to Tesla, for now.

Curvature assist? With newer SW release?

My latest update was about a week ago and the only difference in the curvature assist is where it tries to make me crash. There's always certain stretches of road where it brakes every time along with the random spots where it also tries to crash me. The predictable spots move with every update.