Tesla’s Dangerous Doors

Unpaywalled  https://archive.ph/QCuQJ

Whenever I get into a Tesla, I think 'what a shithouse UI this handle is'. You've got to do 3 movements to open the door whereas every other car just takes 1. Not only is it dangerous in case of emergency but over millions and millions of cycles it's wasting lots of person-hours operating it

This has been known for years. I advise anyone I know who is looking at getting a Tesla to not because of this reason alone.

Actually insane this is allowed. Of course after a crash, electricity might be affected to a point where there is none available. doors only opening when electric stability is given is pure madness... but what do i expect form a Elon lead company

Fair warning: anyone who posts some bullshit about Teslas being safer in fires that links back to that nonsense from autoinsurance-ez is liable to get banned.

Marketing Über Alles

Mach-E is having similar issues with some of its doors.

It would be wise to have a glass smasher in your car if you drive a Tesla.

>but what do i expect form a Elon lead company Electric seatbelt release buttons, clearly.

I’m glad I’m driving a BMW i3 which has normal door mechanisms all around.

That should be good for another 50-100b valuation increase. Calls for 5-10% pump today! 🚀

Can you, in advance, add an extra loop to the emergency opener so it is easier to find/use?

Please don’t normalize Tesla’s shitty design. Too much of that over their history has gotten them to where they are today.

“In the event of a crash (made more likely by our shitty “Full” Self Driving feature), not only is the manual door release hidden away, we’ll trap you in your seat for a quicker fiery death.” - An Elon Special

It’s Musk’s personal genius in action. He insisten on those.

Will never own or even ride in one for this very reason.

Yeah thought so. It's also going to be a failure point that means they sell more spare parts

Yeah I think those were recalled? They stopped selling for a bit.

[deleted]

Whoa. Then it would be wise to do the home modification which makes it easier to find the manual door release in the event if an emergency.

The mechanical opener is in the armrest of the door? I have a Model Y 2024.

In that case stash emergency cyanide pills in glove compartment - better that then burn to death slowly (?).

It’s first principles bro. You can’t understand Elon’s genius. /s

Yeah had that with our company car. Just leaned at the car to search something in my bag, the car tried to pop out the handle and broke it in the process... but it was an older 2016 model s, not sure if they made it more robus now to be honest. Was quite anoying to go in from passenger side for the rest of the trip ...

Yeah but its cool and nobody else has it. Said Elmo probably

Yeah, locking people inside. No physical handles should be illegal.

They shouldn’t even require power to open when unlocked

That this is still legal is surprising and incredibly sad. There are people dying because firefighters have no chance of opening the doors. Just because a maniac wants a futuristic look on his cars people are dying. Which normal company would survive this?

Agreed.

It’s the rear seats that are the problem. It’s still behind a panel on the newer model Y.

...on the touchscreen.

It's a 3-in-1 product.

I cant even get past what's visible on the paywalled version I'm gonna be sick and I'm not gonna let Elon ruin my oreos cravings before I hop on land of qud

weren’t some of them that caught fire actually locking all the doors because of their emergency system?

A good lung full of smoke will kill you pretty quickly.

Just out of interest what are the 3 movements? I’ve never been in a Tesla.

Or one of those metal balls they threw at the cyberdump

Glove compartment door is electric. It won’t open in loss of power, just like the doors.

The handles are inset flush in the door, with a release button end. You need to press one end in (movement #1), then the handle pops out the other end. You need to move your hand to the other end of the handle #2, then pull it #3. Typical handles are just #3. There are reasons why the industry as a whole has converged on the simple pull handle design. It's intuitive, as you're already pulling the door open. Many people of different mobility levels can use it, or if you're carrying shit in your arms. There are fewer parts to break, etc. In short, you need a good reason to throw out industry standard concepts. This does happen and can work well, but you've gotta have a really good disruptive design if you want millions of people to use it billions of times. IMO, this isn't such a design

I haven’t seen any portapotty or any other shithouse that would have that bad handle.

With seat belt that constricts with heat.

We've known about this for what? 5-8 years? What took them so long to report it?

Am I taking crazy pills? Isn't there a mechanical release? 99% of my passengers open that by accident in their first ride anyways.

I moved my dad in my house because of his dementia. Every time he got out of my Tesla he used the mechanical release.

If you push the thick part of the handle with your thumb, your fingers will be place to grab the handle and pull. It’s still two steps though, and requires you to use the correct hand. But yeah, if I’m opening and closing a door a lot, it’s mildly annoying so I’ll avoid closing it all the way so I can just pull the door by the frame to reopen it.

Only the front mechanical release is accessible, and even it isn’t in an obvious place for a rescuer outside the vehicle.

You can make a modification to a vehicle you own to overcome a design flaw. But if you’re the passenger in someone else’s Tesla, not so much.

I don't know if this should be generalised. Maybe on some models. I can't comment on the safety issue but regarding comfort, my MX door opens without me even touching anything, I simply walk to my car, and it closes when I put my foot on the brakes.

Iirc the idea was it improved safety in crashes by making sure the doors stay shut and then they were supposed to unlock after. However, if power is lost that can't happen.

The rear doors are the more problematic ones. Here's how you access that rear release on a Model Y: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FVwuOdMBpfo Now imagine trying to explain how to access that cable to a child or someone panicking after an accident.

Joke's on you - the door is frameless.

There’s an uber driver I often get who has aftermarket door handles stuck on over the stock handles and it operates exactly like a normal car door. The fact that the fix has to be made, and was worth making and selling is such an obvious design fail on the part of Tesla. It’s also really nice vs the Tesla version.

Front doors are pretty straight forward with the manual latch. Rear seats are a crapshoot depending if you have a recent one or an older one. Does you no good if you're incapacitated and rescuers can't open the doors b/c the electrical system's failed. Even worse if you're inside a Cybertruck which has no external handles at all, laminated glass, and apparently a flammable interior that creates noxious gasses. Believe that was a contributing factor in the California crash that killed 3 college kids.

As for getting out of the Tesla, people‘s first reaction whether it’s an emergency or not is to use the manual big easy to find emergency door release. Unless you train people on how to open the door from the inside properly with the regular electric switch will go for the emergency handle almost every time

Or... hear me out... DON'T FUCK WITH A PROVEN SYSTEM OF OPENING DOORS!!! It should be easy to reach for the handle to get out in emergency situations. Bad design is bad design.

What if one hand is full so you use the other hand.

The model 3 and model y door handles don’t automatically pop out like that.

From the front seat or the back seat?

Wow, ok fair that is not intuitive at all. It should be the same as the front.

Haha, stupid vehicles!

From the company that can't make cars with functioning doors..... "We will have self driving cars and humanoid robots"!!!! From the company that can't build an electric truck without panels coming off.... "We will have self driving cars and humanoid robots"!!!! Come on already....

Or maybe just buy something else that isn’t a death trap?

Whoa, Tesla designed the perfect means to silence anyone killed by FSD.

That seems like a pretty stupid rationale, though. If the normal mechanism is something that can open in a crash unless the door is locked, it seems like there's a design failure. I know some cars have an electronic lock (i.e. no little stalk to push/pull to lock the door without power), but AFAIK those generally release the lock when the interior level is pulled (rear doors notwithstanding, for kid 'safety'). Do the Tesla's do that (if you can manage to figure out the mechanical open, that is)?

> Unless you train people on how to open the door from the inside properly "Properly"? How is using a mechanical lever, like (virtually?) every other non-Tesla not "proper"?

Buried behind at least 4 taps.

Seatbelt buttons cost money. The interior camera can use AI to guess when you want to unbuckle your seat belt.

I guess you bought a Nazi car so the crazy pills must be working.

*(WARNING: seatbelts may suddenly unbuckle during a crash event, as the vehicle hurriedly wipes its memory)*

LOL Nice bait

> Whoa. Then it would be wise to do the home modification which makes it easier to find the manual door release in the event if an emergency. There are a few different versions out there, here's one I found after a quick search. https://www.amazon.com/MEUKSSN-Emergency-Handle-Manual-Compatible/dp/B0DR8NRDH2?th=1

How is it bait! Nazi salute and feeling the WHITE race is being eliminated. That is what a Tesla shows support for.

Yes. This isn't just a Tesla issue -- many EVs have followed the Tesla example and have electrically-operated door latches, either internally, externally, or both. I really think that all vehicles (regardless of drive train and power source) be required to have: **Interior:** A handle that will allow the occupant unlock and unlatch the door regardless of the status of the vehicle's power. If the vehicle has an electronic door lock and latch function, then the same handle must also operate a mechanical system that is effective with power out. In an emergency situation, you don't want to have to be searching around for an emergency button or cord that is hidden somewhere clever -- the natural inclination is to frantically yank on the normal door handle, and that should do the job. In my opinion, Ford actually got this part right: on the Mach-E: there's a single internal handle that normally electrically unlatches the door. If power is out, pulling this same handle farther back engages a mechanical system that unlocks the door (first pull) and opens it (second pull). I also find it telling that Ford went with traditional ICE door handles, latches, and locks on the F-150 Lightning. **Exterior:** Exterior door handles that will unlatch and open a door if it is unlocked, again regardless of the status of the vehicle's power. A retractable or flush handle is acceptable if it can be operated even when power is off. **Locks:** An exterior driver's door that can be unlocked from the outside regardless of the status of the vehicle's power (this de-facto means that it must unlock with a key). This allows the driver to get into the vehicle even if power is out. The vehicle must also either have interior handles that unlock and unlatch the door as above that cannot be disabled (for example by child-safety switches), or have a lock mechanism that can be unlocked by the driver regardless of power status (for example, lock buttons as in many vehicles).

For sure. But it also a sign of other shortcuts that might be there, and are to come, all because an ignoramus who everyone hails as a genius is primarily concerned about himself and his stock price.

This video is so insane, it is hard to believe it is real.

No more tesla for me then.

Who cares, non issue. Optimus will be opening doors for everyone soon anyway.

Reading these stories makes my heart ache. Musk should tried and face a firing squad for green lightning this dumbass door design. Seriously I can't image there being much worse way to go than burning to death. A family friend was badly burned in a tractor fire, and he said he could hear a lady screaming in the burn unit "just kill me!!".  Jesus fuck..

Frame was probably not the right word. I’m talking about the metal to the side of the bottom of the window.

Less and less people are hailing techhitler a genius

“Skin” or “shell” is probably what you’re grabbing.

That’s crazy talk /s

Mercedes has flush handles, but with them, it's touch, (they pop out), then pull. I was reading up on Audi's emergency door release since they also have electronic doors. For Audi, you just have to pull the door handle harder than usual, then pull it again - exactly what someone panicing would do. Unlike Tesla which makes them find a some nub in a pocket to dig out.

Is amazing to me that FMVSS doesn't include door latch safety because it was too God damn obvious before electric doors.

FMVSS requires a horn and turn signals. Some Teslas have capacitive touch buttons to activate these. So if I'm wearing gloves, or even have dry fingers, I can't use them. How these vehicles passed is beyond me.

Don’t give him ideas

I rode in a Tesla for the first time in nyc when we got an Uber this past June. I literally couldn’t figure out how to get out of the back seat. My coworkers were like what is she doing still in the car? I had to be like “sir, I don’t know how to open this door.” I felt like such an idiot.

I know that 3 and Y are push with thumb and pull, aren't S (and x?) auto-pop out or did they discontinue that function?

Self certification. - an engineer who formally worked for a 3rd party cert agency

Tesla didn't want (or didn't know how) to build a mechanism to partially retract the frameless windows into the lever like every other car with frameless windows, so you get a button to push.

Damn. I mentioned in here the other day that having kids in car seats is one of the reasons I won’t buy a Tesla and they were like “kids aren’t supposed to get out of car seats anyway.” Sure they aren’t but my 5 yo can absolutely get in and out of his by himself and has been since he was 3. (He never did it while the car was moving.) In a crash in my Toyota he can absolutely get out on his own if I’m unconscious.

At least the puck mouse couldn’t kill you…

Other manufacturers have electric releases for their door handles. Are you sure they have the same safety issues as Tesla? Other manufacturers genetally consider mechanical backups on the interior handles. The flush exterior door handles are also designed to open in a crash. These considerations should not be taken lightly.

Historically, the focus in door latch and lock requirements was to make sure the doors don't fall off and that the doors could be unlocked: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-571/subpart-B/section-571.206 You probably ran some of these tests.

I'm not against electronic latches in general in cars, but I do think there needs to be better education around how to access the emergency mechanical latches. I'm not sure what the best way is, maybe some kind of video you need to watch before driving the car, lol. I generally tell everyone new that rides in my car how to access them in case of an emergency just because I'm super paranoid about it. I can also see the criticism about it being unintuitive, but hating on Tesla for this also ignores the fact that a lot of other modern cars use electronic latches as well: * [Ford Mustang Mach-E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHuJVQgPI5c&t=9s): No exterior handles; has a mechanical cable backup built in (you pull on the interior electronic handles much harder which pulls the backup mechanical cable). * [Rivian R1T/R1S Gen 2](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-r1-refresh-vehicles-can-become-a-death-trap-for-rear-passengers-235389.html): Similar to Teslas; front doors have a manual door release that's "kind of hidden" but accessible; rear doors require you to pry off a panel in order to access the mechanical release cable. * [Corvette C8 ](https://vette-vues.com/how-to-get-into-your-c8-corvette-with-dead-battery/?srsltid=AfmBOoqDQjOYrKRMamvqjatA08TRR4NSLqnEb4ZAeEa_9HjmwfIdzoPb): Manual door release is a small lever on the floor next to the door. * [BMW iX (And some other BMW models)](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OWd0HscgSOw): Manual door release is pretty hidden inside the seat pocket area. There's probably more too, this is just what I found in 5 minutes of searching. The trend in higher end cars is to remove the window frame/trim for a more "seamless"/"sleek" look. To prevent excessive wear on the window seals / damage to the window, the electronic latch causes the window to lower before the door is actually released, so the window doesn't scrape against the seals. There's probably other reasons the trend is going frameless besides just aesthetics (feels more sporty, no metal at eye level can make it feel more open, the door can sit more flush which reduces drag). Additionally, I think car manufacturers like it because they can give the doors a satisfying "pop" to open that feels effortless and luxury. Also it can prevent kids / others from trying to open the doors while the car is moving without requiring a child lock to do so. Even most modern cars that have manual interior door handles still rely on electronic exterior handles; this still requires people to break the window glass to open the door if they're trying to enter from the outside. The reason again is that it helps to reduce drag: those hidden handles that can "pop open" when the car is unlocked also helps to reduce drag when it sits flush and gives a more seamless look from the exterior.

Nah, everything I have tested is in the 100 series. I'm unsure if "doors with emergency egress capabilities" would be best filed under 200 for occupant safety or 400 next to interior trunk release

"Now with mercy killing features! If the car thinks your injured beyond saving in a crash it will constrict the seat belt until youre comfortably unconscious and fade away!" ^mercy ^seatbelts ^also ^controlled ^remotely, ^dont ^forget ^to ^make ^your ^lease ^payment ^on ^time!

How dare you poo poo the jenius elmo’s design!!! /s He thought about all of it while being high on ketamine

Using the right hand to open your left hand drive door is morning and not natural at all

You use your right hand to open the right door and left hand to open the left door. It’s at least not backwards.

There aren’t 3 movements

It’s a solution for something that wasn’t a problem.

We should have a law that requires door handles to mechanically open doors. Tesla is far from the only manufacturer pulling this

There is but it’s hidden… your passengers are accidentally hitting the electronic only release.

Zero chance someone with dementia can locate the mechanical release reliably lol

I'm not saying that they all do, but I am saying that the issue is definitely wider than just Tesla: Despite designing a good interior handle, Ford had a safety recall this summer that was related to the Mach-E's pushbutton electrically-operated external latches. Multiple carmakers use retractable flush-mounted external handles. Chinese crash-test data shows these handles fail in about 33% of side collisions, versus about 2% for conventional handles. Overall I'm not advocating a ban, but do support more stringent standards and testing to ensure that the doors and egress systems are as safe as or safer than equivalent conventional mechanical systems. Audi's rescue pull-cord system that deploys in the event of a crash seems like a good idea, and I'm sure other carmakers have good ideas that enhance safety.

Bit late to the party but yes, this is accurate. I worked for a company making vehicle door handles and what they do is they have a mechanical inertial lock that is supplemental to the car's own locking system that makes sure in case of sudden deceleration, like in a car crash, the doors stay locked. But the system returns to normal when the car comes to a stop. Some models even have an external emergency release that is activated on the outside of the car in case of a crash, so first responders can open the door even if it somehow remains locked from the inside. This system is separate from all mechanisms on the car so it can be open with/without power, since it purely mechanical and directly connected to the door latch. There are many solutions out there for these things, but it appears Tesla decided to use none of them.

Other OEMs issue recalls--seems to support that they consider these safety impacts seriously (unlike tesla). But I certainly agree with you that a test standard should be introduced! Such a requirement could lead to more mechanical systems. Personally, I dislike pop out handles as they seem unnecessary and are prone to issues (difficult to use, complexity when 12V dies, get stuck in icy conditions, etc.)

Doesn't seem like too much to come up with a small capacitor/rechargeable battery built into the interior of the door handle to also make the e-door locks self-sufficient after an accident.

🩷

*I'm not sure what the best way is, maybe some kind of video you need to watch before driving the car, lol. I generally tell everyone new that rides in my car how to access them in case of an emergency just because I'm super paranoid about it.* No one should have to watch a video or read a manual or receive instructions from the car owner to know how to open a car door. That's just a workaround to overcome bad design. Better solution is good design. *I can also see the criticism about it being unintuitive, but hating on Tesla for this also ignores the fact that a lot of other modern cars use electronic latches as well:* Also not good.

Serious question: how many modern car door handles are still truly "mechanical"? I think most ar just connected to a micro switch that triggers an electric controlled release mechanism. I'm fairly certain all cars with frameless windows do because they have to "wait" for the electric window to come down fist. Right? Tesla has an indoor mechanical release for the front seats and should be forced to have it in the back too. But still I'm curious how many cars actually still have a fully mechanical (i.e. bowden wire controlled) doore handle mechanism 🤔 Edit: and most cars nowadays have the safety feature of automatic locking doors while driving, and no pull up pin to unlock manual. But I think some can unblock fully mechanical by pulling on the indoor handle twice. (First unlockes, second opens the door) My old Rover worked that way.

I don't know the breakdown, but there are certainly still vehicles being made with mechanical door handles. It is definitely *possible* to engineer frameless doors with mechanical latches. We used to own a 2012 Mustang that had frameless doors but a fully-mechanical door mechanism. The design was first used in a production vehicle in 1972 (the Oldsmobile Delta 88). I drive a BEV (a 2023 F-150 Lightning) that has mechanical door handles both inside and outside, along with a key-based lock and manual lock/unlock pins on all of the doors, despite implementing keyless touch-sensitive entry and keyless locking. In general, it isn't *that* hard to design an interior handle that normally uses the electronic system, but when pulled back further than usual engages a mechanical system that unlocks the door (on the first pull) and opens it (on the second pull). Similarly, a key-based system could be used on the drivers' door to unlock and open the door when power is out. Overall, the issue is in accessing the vehicle with power out -- it isn't uncommon for 12V power to fail in an accident scenario, and precision-fitted items (like pop-out door handles) are likely to jam or fail as a result of an accident.

Yes 100% agree! Am not advocating for Tesla's design, just that it is more complex than "flush door handles bad!". Just because the physical appearance of a door handles is "normal" does not directly mean they are usable without 12V power and vice versa. At least a secondary fallback that is fully mechanical opening the door releases are a good thing. And they should be "easy" to find. I am ok with Model 3/Y front doors (indoor pull-up latch) but the hidden cable in the back is bad. Having no physical key makes an outdoor release difficult for Tesla's tho 😅. I know that some Porsche hood releases are accessable without a key, that makes it easy to steal the headlights 😵‍💫

Burns recovery - like serious burns - is something I've seen a patient describe as 'they give you the maximum morphine medically possible and it's still excruciating'. They get put into an induced coma a lot of the time now I believe. I can't imagine dealing with the trauma of getting the burns AND the recovery