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Further quotes from Elon: > [Your team has done a great job maximizing the performance of the Tesla AI computer. Robotaxi wouldn’t be possible yet without that.](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1936889345589559501) ------ > [All your media, streaming and preferred temperature settings just work automatically when you get into a Tesla @Robotaxi](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1936882509993885860) ------ > [Really is such an awesome AI team!](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1936889687429583114) > And you have done a great job as leader. --------- > [Tesla AI teams](https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1936885071744729419) - (photo)
What an accomplishment. Excited to see it scale up.
Waiting for the “this isn’t a real scalable robo taxi, it’s a stunt for the stock price“ crowd. Something something LiDAR.
Would you let them beta test this in your city?
Of course. Certainly as long as the accident rate is lower than the human average. It would make my city safer and cheaper and more convenient.
Can someone explain to me a little about this enthusiasm? Seems to me like robotaxi is remotely supervised, which is where Waymo started 10 years ago. For someone to turn their Tesla into a robotaxi, remote supervision won't work. How can we be so positive that robotaxi will become unsupervised or be making money anytime soon?
Waymo is remotely supervised today. But the supervisors only assist if the cars need them to. Tesla is doing the same thing, and that will work even when customer cars start operating as robotaxis (assuming the intervention rate is low enough). The enthusiasm comes from the fact that a regular car that anybody can buy is literally starting to drive itself. That's insane and will change the world in so many great ways.
You don’t learn how to swim by diving head first into the deep end. Human lives are at stake.
They literally put a Tesla guy with you in the car. 8 years behind Waymo.
> For someone to turn their Tesla into a robotaxi, remote supervision won’t work Why not? We don’t know what terms and pricing for “unsupervised” FSD will be, but it won’t matter. Tesla controls the app. They can just charge $0.05 per mile or whatever for the remote operator service. Every remote taxi service needs one (need Waymo). So that will just be part of the price of using “unsupervised” - Tesla gets a little bit of revenue.
Waymo doesn’t require you to have an employee with you in the car. This shit does.
They do in new cities that they launch in. It takes time for them to make sure everything is good and then remove the employee. Same for Tesla.
^ that is the result of someone seeing things in discrete black and white
🫡
Mf baby steps
Surely you can understand this is the first day and that won’t last forever?
Give it up. Waymo did the same thing and it’s always better to safe than sorry. The negativity is sad to see.
Waymo is inherently unsafe. At least Tesla is taking this seriously.
My concern is that they seem to have essentially gone back on what they’d promised about their FSD approach. They said they were building a general purpose system that could drive anywhere, without things like precise mapping. This system though seems to fly in the face of that. They’ve spent months concentrating on getting just this one geolocation working, with employees intensively driving around the one neighbourhood. That suggests to me that they in fact have sort of “given up” for now and are taking the Waymo approach of getting it to work in one location at a time, as opposed to a general purpose system.
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HW3 2.0
The car company suing to block the release of their car safety data, that same Tesla? Or the Waymo that has all their actual real life data uploaded on their website for all to see and track live?
I guess it’s difficult to consider that both things could be true. That the system does work as designed but that they want to be extra cautious to make sure there isn’t some corner case they missed. Maybe that’s possible? Maybe?
This still doesn’t address a million additional factors, features needed, and regulatory approval. You actually can’t buy a robotaxi *yet*. You’re buying the “promise” that one day it will be. There are too many things that are out of Tesla’s control for it to be anything else.
Actually that was before and for employees only now they launch with no drivers. If you see a waymo with a driver they are mapping the area not servicing customers.
They really open the doors for haters to critique this or that, like the Cybertruck rollout, but this is how progress is made.
Ok. They don’t require it from Waymo
Waymo literally released a research paper this week that they've been wasting their time & Tesla have done self driving the correct way for scale.
But is it lower? Do we have any evidence of this?
Waymo can only be operated on known routes. Unknown routes are out of coverage. The only way it knows a route is if a human has driven it, over and over and over. And that's with a *Mars Rover worth* of sensors on board. Curious to see what that looks like for Tesla.
Like a proper sensor package?
Can you expand on that?
They are not remotely supervised. Every Robotaxi is supervised by an employee in the passenger seat in the car.
It’s day one lol give it time ?
What do you mean?? How many Robotaxis have you seen crash in Austin so far? I can tell you the answer is 0, because otherwise it would be all over the news lol
When Waymo first launched, they launched with safety drivers.
“Congrats to SW and HW team” - Does it mean the robotaxi runs on a different software and hardware than the regular Tesla FSD? And that our FSD isn’t representative to the robotaxi FSD performance?
They've obviously tested it prior to the launch, and so far they're at 0 accidents since launch.
The hardware is the same. The software is based on a newer version that hasn't been released to our cars yet.
Waymo is much safer than human drivers. Tesla is excellent too, of course. We'll have to wait and see which is safer.
Every company have to do this per law for a certain time
Source?
For one Tesla has an employee in the car at all times so the passengers can feel safe. For two there are countless videos of Waymo out there doing crazy things like running stop signs or crashing into poles. Lidar clearly isn’t doing them any favors. It’s just a matter of time.
Not in Texas. Autonomous cars are not regulated in Texas (yet) and Tesla did this on their own judgement instead of compliance.
Your car will never make you money. If it did, car makers would just keep them.
Reminds me of the hype and excitement for the Cybertruck around creating a truck with an "exoskeleton," only for it to turn out to be stainless steel panels on an aluminum frame. Tesla seems to be rife with pie in the sky ideas that are doggedly at odds with the reality of what it would take to achieve them. Nothing inherently wrong with that, as you need to take risks on order to innovate, but I don't think I like that approach when it comes to trusting Tesla with my life.
Jesus. Calm down.
Said chip design is done at tesla. Normal cars have chips designed by Nvidia.
That may be correct, and if so, my bad. It's possible that they don't officially open to the public in new cities until there's nobody in the car. But I know when they launched their service in the first city (Phoenix), they started with a person in the driver's seat.
So right now does every car have a remote operator able to take over control immediately? Seems like that would be the safest thing to do for now
I was riding in Waymo’s with safety drivers in late 2018. Tesla is still 6 years behind.
6 years to get the cars down from $200k to $40k is insanely good.
It does have an exoskeleton. The outer panels bear structural load. Don't trust it with your life. Just look at the data.
Waymo also launched with safety drivers.. do you think the safety driver will be included as usage scales?
Ok, Six years from now do you think waymo will still have a six year head start, or do you think tesla will close the gap?
Friends model y with FSD is definitely technically capable of driving without him there.
There’s many ways cars make people money lol, especially directly, ever heard of turo??
Ok so can I take a Tesla cab from NYC to LA with a safety dude then or nah?
That’s a very dishonest interpretation of that paper
I use Waymo and FSD HW4 all the time. Waymo is much safer.
It’s been out for a day to beta testers so yes
If I’m calling a robocab I don’t want a fucking safety person there. At that point I can just get an uber
Ok. And when that is no longer the case they will have reached parity with Waymo. Not sooner.
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport 😂😂😂
Based on 13.2.9 it’s definitely lower. The texters should all have FSD. Half my time is spent watching idiots swerve while FSD navigates around them.
Cars have been “exoskeleton” for more than 70 years at scale. It’s called unibody. It’s about as non pie in the sky as you can get. Perhaps your anti Tesla bias is causing you to say stupid shit.
Yeah people don’t understand. I drive from the city into the mountains and it’s not perfect, but that imperfection comes from where it decides to sit in the lane when motocycles pass, it’s still in the lane just fine, and it’s wonderful and relaxing.
Yeah seems like they can remote in
This is not a beta test.
More powerful AI is superior to more sensors.
Humans dont have sensors, why would the car need it?
Tldr; compute and data at scale with ai brain the the key. Something Tesla has 150x more of.
You don't seem to be very informed in this subject, but it's okay. The difference is scalability. Tesla is doing a general solution with cars that costs a fraction of Waymos cars. Tesla will be able to produce millions and eventually tens of millions of cars with self driving capability that are able to drive all over the world. Waymo will reach a few thousands cars in a few cities in the US (before probably going bankrupt or being closed down).
Solar panels make you money. These companies don’t have unlimited space to put their products, that’s where the purchaser comes in, car can park in your car park and work from there. It won’t be soon but it probably will be a thing, even if it’s just with second hand Teslas
FSD Beta. You use FSD Beta on AI4, you mean. But no, you are not using anything because then you should know anything as basic about FSD as that.
So eight years later. Can I take a Waymo from NY to LA?
Today... nah. But which one do you think will be able to do a journey like that first? Waymo, that you can take a ride in without the supervisor but only in areas that are manually mapped and managed, in a car that still doesn't take the highway, or Tesla where the system doesn't rely on premapping areas and is already pretty adept at highway driving?
> If it did, car makers would just keep them. Who would drive them? Not requiring a driver changes that equation. And even then, taxis exist. You don't see car manufacturers refuse to sell taxis for others to drive, yet those vehicles make money. By building and selling cars that can make you money Tesla address two problems - people who will always want to own their own cars, and crowdsourcing the financing of building of a worldwide fleet of cars.
The in house Tesla chip is the dedicated AI chip used to train the models in their datacentres. The models it produces are then run on the Nvidia hardware in the cars.
Didn’t they just launch the service with 10 cars? The average human driver has an accident every 500000 miles. That means each car needs to cover 50000 miles without an accident/dis-engagement before we can start to get an idea. You’d need way more miles and cars than that to get a statistically significant answer.
Would you be more happy if they didn’t? Or would you complain about how Tesla has no oversight.
No they don't. All Tesla cars built since 2019 (HW3) have an in-house designed AI inference chip. They used to use Nvidia inference chips a long time ago, but not since 2019.
Nope, the cars haven't had Nvidia hardware since 2019. HW2 used Nvidia chips for AI inference in the cars, but HW3 and HW4 use Tesla-designed inference chips.
Airplanes make money, tractors make money. Semi trucks, taxis, etc…
It’s wild seeing so many people in the comments parroting old information from 2019… and then parroting brand new information from Waymo. Waymo marketing has educated the public. Tesla marketing not yet, because they don’t really spend much on marketing (and haven’t). So makes sense but wow people are misinformed
Wouldn’t they just deduct it from the taxi fee it generates?
Tesla already has ~1.5 million FSD‑equipped vehicles collecting data globally—feeding neural networks with over 160 billion video frames daily . • We believes this vast scale could rapidly be deployed as Robotaxis via OTA updates and owner participation—something Waymo cannot match 🤔
Those all require an operation crew
You know tractors have ai driving and gps link and remote control now right? 1 farmer can make it work. I’m friends wife runs their giant tractor by herself everyday. Even the tool changes. Obviously they call in mechanics for repairs and maintenance… so no not all of them require teams of technicians… times are changing old man
> Waymo is remotely supervised today. But the supervisors only assist if the cars need them to. Tesla is doing the same thing, So Tesla is able to recognize beforehand that it can't safely enter into a situation on its own, but will need to ask a human for help? If the car can't do that, then there is no "if the car needs them to". We are still at at "if a human needs to take initiative" - AKA Level 2. If Tesla have finally reached that milestone, then it is a huge breakthrough for them. I find it strange that they have been so silent about it. And have the actually reached that milestone? A few minutes ago, I saw a video from a robotaxi, which decided to abort a left turn while doing it, then decided to do it anyway, then aborted it and continued straight forward into the left turn lane for oncoming traffic, and finally pulled over in its own lane, cutting off another car which got on the horn. That did not look like a car, which was mature enough to ask a human for help instead of doing something stupid on its own. It looked very much like the FSD (Supervised) which we already know.
> extra cautious to make sure there isn’t some corner case they missed. Corner cases such as left turns?
It was Tesla who made the claim about this car being different from other cars because it would have an exoskeleton.
“That’s insane and will change the world in so many great ways” Can you give 2 examples of this changing the world in great ways?
Currently the car can't recognize when it is in trouble. It just tries to figure it out. Customer pretty much would have to call in case the car gets stuck. But pretty much all the mistakes we saw were something that required immediate attention since you could not just stop middle of intersection to ask for help.
Because the robotaxi software is 3x better than the current FSD software, on top of that he has another version that 4.5x better than even the 3x.
Elon the king of smoke and mirrors. They still can’t even fix panel gaps on their new model y
Wish he'd just stick to this and forgot politics. Good to see him say thank to the whole AI team. You may like or dislike FSD, but that team is at least trying to push the limits of vision based AI. Even if it doesn't totally work in the end, they'd have given it all, and discovered so many things along the way. Dripping with Scientific Discovery, love it.
The tractor won't select the tool needed, go the field requested and do the job on its own. Instead, you get in the tractor, put the tool needed, go to the field you want and the first time, you do the job so the GPS system maps the field. Then, next year you will have to do the same, with the only difference that the tractor will do the driving in the field, but nothing else. The tractor operator still needs to be there for assitance if needed.
I own a Tesla
Every all-star MVP started as a rookie.
Humans regularly make mistakes and get into accidents. An automated vehicle should _never_ cause an accident.
Not if the data isn't properly enriched or fully understood. AI can only work with what it understands and even then it is prone to hallucination. The only way to "ensure" such a system is to have multiple levels of redundancy and as much precision as possible.
Your argument seems to be that if a system has never been tested, it is therefore perfect. We do not have data to support the claim that robotaxis are safer than human drivers; it doesn't exist, yet.
Tesla dropped the word Beta and now calls it Tesla FSD Supervised back in March 2024. Do you know your FSD basic? https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1976/tesla-transitions-fsd-from-beta-to-supervised-with-release-of-v12-3-3-semantics-or-legitimate-upgrade
Saw a mention somewhere that the parameters are 4x what we currently have in our FSD (whatever 4x params translates to in this context). So it seems like Robotaxi FSD is a bit more advanced - and it needs to be.
Yes this is a big deal, no not soon. Waymo’s way of doing it is very expensive and has not scaled well. Tesla makes their own purpose-built cars with cheaper hardware and more ai power and their own charging infrastructure and such. Details like *a car that can charge itself instead of being plugged-in by a human* add up. Tesla is years away still, but it will work at scale. Elon sold people on the idea that early model regular customer Teslas could be robotaxis, but its not true. Tesla needs a fleet of their own purpose-built taxis working out of specialized hubs, with every moment of it carefully optimized to minimize labor and downtime.
> **Currently the car can't recognize when it is in trouble.** It just tries to figure it out. Customer pretty much would have to call in case the car gets stuck. But **pretty much all the mistakes we saw were something that required immediate attention since you could not just stop middle of intersection to ask for help**. Thank you for proving my point: Tesla is not doing "the same thing as Waymo". What I have put in bold is the stuff Tesla needs to cover before they are doing the same thing as Waymo. If a car runs into situations where it can't stop and ask for help, because that would dangerous, and it can't proceed, because that would be dangerous too, then that car is obviously not yet ready for "Waymo mode". For that, you need a car, which knows to stay out of these situations. As I wrote: It needs to be able to recognize beforehand that it can't safely enter into a situation on its own.
Tools will never make you money. If they did, tool companies would just keep them. Stock will never make you money. If it did, companies would just keep it.
> the king of smoke and mirrors. > new model y Which is it? Is it smoke and mirrors? Or have a million+ Teslas like the Y been sold already? What “model y”? I thought it was smoke & mirrors.
Schroedinger’s Hater In a superposition of outrage at either option.
My bad! That's what happens when me trying to be a smart ass. :P
These are not analogous, a tool cannot function without an operator. In this case, the software that operates the car should not require an operator.
> [Product] will never make you money. If it did, [Product Makers] would just keep them. Your claim is easily disproven. Done. Anything else?
Giant job-site generators will never make you money. If they did, the manufacturers would just keep them. We rent them out for months at a time, they just work — autonomously — making us money. Are you claiming the generators are imaginary? Or the money is imaginary?
do you always make 3 ignorant replies to every post. if you dont see the difference between a self driving car and a device that requires an operator and skill to use, i dont know what to tell you.
> a device that requires an operator and skill to use, You don’t know how these generators work, do you?
Tesla could have more cars on the road then waymo in less than a year. Most people don't know that Teslas drives themselves from the line to the shipping lot. This is Waymo Kodak moment.
Where will this demand come from? People like their cars in North America and do a lot of driving. Cars are a part of their identity. To the extent that they want others to drive them, they have a lot of options and most of them are cheap. Do people believe that Uber, Lyft, taxi services and etc will just go out of business overnight and that Tesla alone will gobble up this market? I am genuinely curious for where people think the profit is for this product. It is certainly not for individuals because the economy of scale isn't there. So it has to be for the corporations which have a large incentive due to lack of a human operator, there are a lot of other challenges and the capex costs are quite high. This seems like one market trying to subsume another rather than a genuinely new use case which induces its own market demand.
> Do people believe that Uber, Lyft, taxi services and etc will just go out of business overnight No. That’s why no one said that. “Why Lyft? Where will the demand come from? There’s Uber and taxis… Do you think Uber and taxis will go out of business overnight?” No, competitors enter markets every day. Why are you so fearful of an additional option? Also … Should we fear tractors because they eliminate manual plowing jobs?
I'm not fearful of a robotaxi nor did I say I was. I have no financial interest in the outcome. I simply do not see the market potential for the product and I'm discussing the reasons why.
“Why not just continue to make horse carriages? Why begin making “horseless carriages” — what’s the market? Besides, caring for horses includes a lot of jobs. Why eliminate the horse & all those horse breeding/shoeing/saddlery/training jobs? I just don’t see the market potential.” *-* *Reddit, circa 1900*
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Disingenuous analogy, not your first here either. Ok fair enough, I see that you're here to antagonize rather than participate in discussion so I'll block and move on.
You might wanna check out the cybercab.
‘And congrats to the tele-operators behind the curtains that make the whole thing seem autonomous so I can pump the stock again!’
Scale - Waymo cannot scale anywhere near like Tesla can. Waymo backed the wrong horse with lidar. Waymo did the groundwork - proof of concept (Thank you very much) - Tesla takes over from here.
So did the automobile from the horse. We no longer have someone with a red flag walking in front of a car.
1.Transport costs reduced dramatically cheaper than owning your own car or at least reducing the need to own two cars. 2. Elderly will still continue to have independence longer. 3.Children will be able to ride safely in a car without fear of "is the driver a threat" 4. Women will be able to ride safely in a car without fear of "is the driver a threat" 5. No need to pay for expensive city parking.
That's why it has taken 10 years and billions of miles of testing & real world data exponentially sped up with AI.
It doesn’t seem like it’s one-to-one monitoring for immediate control. In DirtyTesla’s video, they had to call support to get the car to resume after he pushed the button for it to stop. If they were monitoring the whole time, the call probably wouldn’t have been necessary
That is Waymo's philosophy - that is why Waymo cannot scale and will be crushed by Tesla.
You can't do that on a tesla either. And how long ago was that feature coming soon?
The first sentence was “the king of smoke and mirrors”. Then there was a period. Ending the sentence. Not sure if you saw ? which could refer to his robots that were piloted by guys behind the scene. FSD being fully functional which he’s said “next year” for many, many years. Dodge claims of “found” fraud. We could bring up the roadster which still hasn’t been produced right? Just took deposits. The semi truck. Etc. may want to refresh yourself on what smoke and mirrors means. Hint it’s when you claim something is great and function or exists and doesn’t. With regard to the model Y. The new one I clearly stated panel gaps. Not that the car itself doesn’t exist. Was that over your head? Whereas Elon continues to claim their QC if far better than other manufacturers and panel gals doesn’t exist- and again they still can’t even fix something as simple as panel gaps as gap issues have been an issue since day 1. Dude it’s cool I get Elon is so far down your through that your chin is hitting his nuts. But it’s ok to accept he says and does deceptive things
Great summary! Thanks for that information.
Look, I really don’t want to engage with your fear mongering, since it’s legit uneducated but I’m frustrated just enough to respond. Tesla used to have a set of ultrasonic sensors that were used as apart of the autopilot system. The issue was that once vision started becoming more mature, there was an inconsistency in the reporting of information. The sensor would say one thing while the cameras would report something else. Who was right? After some evaluation, they found that the cameras were generally more accurate than the ultrasonics so they made the hard decision to trust that vision was good enough alone. There were trade offs tho, mainly the fact that the ultrasonics could detect a car in front of the car in front of you. That was a major asset but they’ve had to find ways to more elegantly solve for this. Lidar is similar, in that one of the sensor packages have to be considered the “ground truth”, and any miscommunication or discrepancy has to be accommodated for. But if vision is good enough, and significantly safer than a human (since there are 8 cameras, while a human only has 2 on a gimble) it was deemed the right path forward. And as a FSD owner since 2018, I can attest that it was absolutely the right choice Now, I’m ready for more fear mongering. If you want to discuss this in good faith, I’d love to engage. But I’m going to keep my expectations muted
For 1. Taxis have existed for decades and hailing a cab has never been dramatically cheaper than owning your own car. Without knowing what Tesla would charge for a driverless taxi ride we can’t say at all if it will cheaper than anything. Also America has never shown any desire to give up the dream / desire / status of owning your own car. It’s baked in the identity of its citizens
13.2.9 plus a safety rider is likely the safest thing on the road right now.
Because cars are not human beings.
This is the dumbest argument/logic ever. I can’t believe it just gets regurgitated nonstop.
I have full autopilot and boy does it suck at left turns. Especially sketchy turning left onto a ramp or similar. It has put me into oncoming traffic several times. The few clips I’ve seen of it messing up are very similar. I know these robo taxis have more compute and are running different software but nonetheless, I trust Waymo’s way more for now.
Oh you mean besides the 16 thousand car accidents per DAY in the US alone? All of which is accomplished by human drivers.
Very few rookies ever win MVPs in their career.
It's not Waymo marketing. It's anti-Tesla propaganda from the left. Anything Tesla is put down by these people.
That’s also true. Reddit and the lefts misinformation is just wild
Waymo vehicles are also extremely expensive given all the tech in them. Tesla is cheaper as they rely solely on cameras.
It may be helpful to note for some that Waymo cannot control their cars remotely. That is unsafe due to the lag. Waymo can however send the vehicle itself instructions to complete itself. There is no 'joystick' or remote driver. I'm super stoked on Tesla getting in the game. I've ridden Waymo for years and they're phenomenal, way better than a normal Uber. Competition is great for us all and I hope Tesla shows us some great tech in the coming years.
But all teams are trying to push the limits of vision based AI. Other teams are just doing it in a more safe matter. I do credit Tesla for what they are doing, it’s just not unique to them
While I'm not necessarily agreeing with either side, I don't think a report from Tesla themselves would be truth worthy if they're also suing.
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