Musk: "For the past several days, Tesla has been testing self-driving Model Y cars (no one in driver’s seat) on Austin public streets with no incidents. A month ahead of schedule.

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Remember, it doesn't matter if Tesla is late to market, only that it's FIRST to market.

But it’s not first to market? And it’s honestly kinda crazy they finally did FSD testing on public roads… **for a few days** (as claimed, does anyone have videos?), and deemed it ready to start carrying passengers (Robotaxi service is around the corner) Waymo did that for years, accumulating *millions of miles* across their whole fleet, before start carrying passengers. Btw what’s the condition of these tests? Downtown Austin during rush hour? Or suburban road in Round Rock at 2 am? There must be more data right?

It would definitely be cool to have a Tesla delivered via FSD to my house instead of having to drive 1+ hours to the nearest SC

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That is such a cool futuristic thing to happen man. I would be so excited.

Tesla also did it for years, but with safety drivers. Now they are slowly removing safety drivers, first for employees rides and next for customer rides

> thousands of billions of miles Yeah I don’t think you did the math on that one. Only 7.2 *millions* Tesla have ever been sold, even if *all* of them were equipped with Auto Pilot (which we know is not true), and AP was engaged 100% of the time, all the time (which we know is impossible), and each car has been driven 50k miles, you’d still get only 360B miles. So please stop making random stuff up. And that’s not how self driving development works. Even Tesla themselves have said there is almost no value for most AP data. A hundred miles on highway cruising under AP with a human behind the wheel is far less valuable for FSD testing than 1 mile of human less FSD across SF downtown.

Waymo has one big issue. Put waymo car outside the pre-preparred geofenced area and it is as useful as Chess playing AI trying to do your laundry.

I guess it depends on how you want to define the "market". Waymo has yet to show that they can make their model sustainable. It's also well known to be hard to scale. Tesla has been taking a different approach. Granted, Waymo got the early press and had some quick achievements. And don't misunderstand me: I am really grateful that they did, because it pressed legislators to actually put the legal frameworks in place, and we know how slow that can be. But Tesla's approach has the promise that \*when\* it's ready, it's \*ready\*. I'm also curious about your claim: *"And it’s honestly kinda crazy they finally did FSD testing on public roads…* ***for a few days*** *(as claimed, does anyone have videos?), and deemed it ready to start carrying passengers (Robotaxi service is around the corner)"* Where did you get that from?

I know, I’m just saying they are really rushing the steps here. It’s a *huge* jump in reliability requirement to remove safety driver. The fact they are doing weeks of testing in one city vs. Waymo doing *years* of testing across multiple cities, during multiple seasons, before commercial operation is a big yellow flag. I hope it goes well, really, for the safety of everyone. But I won’t be among the first to be trying it.

FSD is just software switch. Tesla can gather FSD driving data even if user does not have access to FSD (because he did not pay).

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> Waymo has yet to show Fair > Tesla’s approach has the *promise* So Waymo hasn’t *proven* their business model is profitable, but Tesla’s will be better because Elon *promised*. Huh… ok. > Where did you get that from The title of the post?

At least Poland it would mean that in case of any legal warranty claims, Tesla would be responsible for for transporting the car to the service center. This is why I think they would keep delivering them to the SC.

They made it up. Elon on multiple earnings calls has said in the past that they have been testing FSD (with safety drivers), for a while now in California and Austin. They've been using FSD as a service for employees at their factories. I'm not sure for how long exactly, but at least 6 months - 1 year. And more recently they started testing some vehicles without safety drivers, and afaik, without passengers. Also, this is all just real-world testing but Tesla also does simulated testing of their software on computers. Using simulated data they can Test many more miles in a much shorter period of time. They've also had the cars driving themselves from the factory end-of-line to the parking lot where they're loaded on to the Semis which take them to the railyard for at least a month.

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> But it’s not first to market? No one's first to market yet. No other companies have country (let alone world)-wide Level 5 autonomous driving yet. I still think Tesla is the closest though since Waymo may look more superficially ahead, but are geographically limited right now.

Makes sense, and if there’s anything wrong with the delivery you’d have to bring it back to a SC anyways.

You do know that AP HW2 only came out in October 2016 right? So tell me, how does shadow mode work for Mobile Eye AP, or an early day Model S with no AP?

Waymo has no future. Note that fragmentation is a big issue. Can Waymo create a monolithic taxi model? There is no way Waymo can scale up the hardware. The demo is good, but it is not a real scaled product that can disrupt the industry. Best they can do is twice the fare and ten times the waiting time of a Tesla Robotaxi. That is Waymo's long-term goal. If you pay $20 and wait 3 minutes for Tesla Robotaxi, why would you choose Waymo, which costs $40 and has a 30-minute wait time?

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> They made it up. Elon tweet literally says: > For the past several days, Tesla has been testing self-driving Model Y cars (no one in driver’s seat) on Austin public streets with no incidents. So when it comes to testing without safety driver it's only few days. I think Waymo did that for 2 years before release.

> They made it up Jesus Christ do we not even read the title of the posts anymore? We are talking about FSD testing with no safety drivers, and according to Elon, they have been doing it “for the past few days”.

🤣

World wide level 5 is meaningless. That’s not a thing anyone in the industry is aiming for, not even Tesla. > Geographically limited A 100% FSD system that works in 1% of the place is a FSD system. A 99% system that works in 100% of places is *not* a FSD system since human driver is required 100% of the time. Scaling across regions is easy once the hard problem is solved. Tesla went down the wrong path and spent most of engineering resources on sensing when it’s trivially solved by everyone else. They finally got close to sensing, but now they are years behind in the driving aspect. To put it this way, *everything* Tesla can do Waymo can do better, *including* computer vision.

It’s not just a software switch. Before HW2 the cars didn’t even have the required cameras, let alone the onboard computer necessary to be gathering data.

I like how you are just making a case with made up numbers. Every time I ordered a Waymo the car showed up in less than 10 minutes, and is cheaper than Uber/Lyft. Come back to me when Tesla’s service is up and running with better results, not made up scenarios from your imagination.

A wildly disproportionate amount of their cars were built after that though. It wasn’t a linear rollout and their production and delivery volume skyrocketed starting at Model 3 in 2018 and Model Y in 2020. I would expect that 85+% of all Teslas are after 2018.

And you can put a Tesla without a human driver *anywhere* and it’s just an expensive door step. So what’s your point? A limited robotaxi service is still a real robotaxi service.

I'm curious what the criteria is for an "incident"?

Btw Waymo is far closer to “Level 5” than Tesla. It can follow police hand signals: https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/s/3SgduCL5ZH It can deal with emergency vehicles: https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/13/24319860/waymo-robotaxi-first-responder-tuv-sud-analysis If Tesla has done any of them Elon would be bragging nonstop, but because they have a long way to go.

> World wide level 5 is meaningless. That’s not a thing anyone in the industry is aiming for, not even Tesla. Always good to aim for perfection even if you can never reach it. But fine, first to market for Level 4 will be the game-changer. > A 99% system that works in 100% of places is not a FSD system since human driver is required 100% of the time. Right and that's why neither Tesla NOR Waymo are there yet. > To put it this way, everything Tesla can do Waymo can do better, including computer vision. I think you're too confident in Waymo's capability considering they (AFAIK) still don't make accident/stranded data publicly available, and that deployment across the full US instead of just limited areas is harder than you think. Time will tell! Maybe you'll be proven to be correct and me mistaken, but I doubt it!

No one in the model Y was injured.

Well, as potential client, I would much prefer FSD that requires some supervision and can go anywhere cross country, than system like waymo, where you buy a car and it can 100% self-drive in one city only.

I mean if Tesla's ADAS is good enough to get people to work without any intervention, then many people will do the monthly subscription or outright buy it so they don't have to drive themselves to work in traffic. Can't do that with Waymo.

> Always good to aim for perfection It’s almost *never* good to aim for perfection in real world engineering problem solving. But Elon wasn’t an engineer, and he overrode his own throughout the years because he was mistakenly chasing after the false problem definition of “vision only self driving”. At the end of the day this industry is pretty well understood by now. Everyone knows everyone and even privately Tesla’s engineers have always known they were chasing after the wrong path, but Elon was stubborn. That’s why over the years I’ve been “pouring cold water” on Tesla’s FSD program and so far I’ve not seen any sign that I’m wrong.

> I think the only thing that matters is if the market buys it in the end. Exactly, which will make the company with the first L4/L5 capability much more successful than those late to the party.

You twisted my words. I never said anything about Elon promising anything. Serious question: is English your second language? Because "promise" here has the meaning that there is the possibility of a positive outcome. Native speakers would know this, but if you are not, then I guess I can give you a pass. You still have not explained where you got your claim from. The title does not mention anything about carrying passengers.

I mean, yeah, ADAS is different from Robotaxi, it’s meaningless to compare the two. Like people pay for basic adaptive cruise control, but that doesn’t mean it’s superior to Waymo.

Where did you get "carrying passengers" from? I asked elsewhere, but you declined to answer there as well.

> Carrying passengers I thought it’s common knowledge? June 12th is literally days away: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-05-28/tesla-targets-june-12-launch-of-robotaxi-service-in-austin

The quote you are both talking about is here: >*"And it’s honestly kinda crazy they finally did FSD testing on public roads…* ***for a few days*** *(as claimed, does anyone have videos?), and deemed it ready to start carrying passengers (Robotaxi service is around the corner)"* Note that the emphasis is \*not\* mine. And "made it up" is about the fairest way of describing this.

Elon himself said Robotaxi is launching in June: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/05/20/elon-musk-tesla-robotaxi.html

Can you do a simple Google search before accusing others of making stuff up? Anyone who’s been following Tesla knows Robotaxi is due for a June launch. Last time I chanced it’s a few days away until June, no?

Elon's [more](https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/) of an engineer than you think! > Tesla’s engineers have always known they were chasing after the wrong path, but Elon was stubborn. From what I understand, Ashok Elluswamy is pro-vision only and hasn't hinted that they're remotely heading down the wrong path. Exciting race either way!

> Gotta be good enough for folks to vote with their dollars. Hopefully elon will get kicked before tesla runs out of money.

You know what’s the real *curveball* for this industry? The recent advancement in LLM may result in a LLM solving FSD, just like how LLM made traditional approach to natural language processing and translation obsolete. I’ve mentioned this before, I have close contacts across people in this field, and some people are now taking another look at autonomous driving through a completely different angle. If anything, LLM will make *sensing* trivially easy (understanding the world), and the new reasoning models can be applied to decision making too with enough onboard computing.

I look forward to the NHTSA filings and reports. I've always thought that ASS would be the primary indicator when FSD was ready for primetime.

Fair point! Though I tend to think it would refine the existing neural network system already in use rather than remake it.

Pretty bold to call this “a month ahead of schedule.” Wasn’t full self driving and taxis promised years ago?

Elon Musk, consistently making the impossible merely behind schedule.

I wish someone would ask him which version of FSD they are using. As 6 months ago when V13 launched the Tesla notes mentioned 3x model size and 3x context length upgrades were around the corner and haven't been delivered yet. I assume they are concentrating their engineering and updates on these trials and then hopefully send this to the fleet. As with how quickly FSD was improving when the went end to end neural nets, six months is a long time!

Tesla FSD has officially achieved Level 4 autonomy!

> with no incidents Doesn't mean much without knowing the sample size.

How do people keep making this argument when the geofenced area keeps constantly expanding? They're clearly managing to keep scaling up, maybe slower than you'd or Elon would like, but at least it's safe. And it's more like a board game playing AI trying to play a new game with a few rules altered. It makes sense that it needs a bit of time to adapt, and it makes sense that it manages.

You don't buy a waymo. It's a robo taxi. That's already been a robo taxi before Tesla.

You want to but a new car with miles and highway dirt already on it?

If I’m going to drive it home anyways what’s the difference, you’re going to put the miles on it driving it home

"Sure, you made this great amazing thing, but it was late" - The most entitled generation in history. Reminds me of that Louis CK skit when there's the first internet on the plane and when it broke the dude next to him said "this is bullshit".

I use ASS in every parking lot. I’ve only had issue when I have “poor connection” absolutely hate the awkward “shame” walk when I need to retrieve it from the lane and it’s blocking cars. I think my success rate is probably better than 90%.

The difference is, I am sure of the condition of the car I am being sold before taking it home

>first self-delivery from factory to customer. Now they just need new customers.

Yes that is definitely an issue bc if it’s delivered to your house and there’s something wrong with it Tesla probably won’t take the blame for it since it’s out of their hands

It’s not about feeling entitled. It’s capitalism. People invest in company promises, and when they can’t deliver on time then people lose money.

That’s actually a good point

The airline didn’t promise you internet on the plane for years and specifically promise it during times it could affect stock prices. Big difference.

The amount of QC issue you see at a Tesla delivery center is crazy. Imagine what it would be like if the car goes directly to your house

Waymo has a lot of SDV’s in Austin. Can’t wait to see Tesla SDV’s all over Austin!

This tech is wayyy ahead of schedule on the civ tech tree. If you would have asked someone 10 years ago when general purpose self-driving would be realized most would have said 30-70 years. I know because ive had this argument in person a decade ago. Were at least (at a minimum) 10 years ahead of schedule.

No one in drivers seat but is it being remote operated/supervised?

You’re arguing what you want to argue and not what is being commented on. Elon’s lying about it is the issue. Like you said, anyone who knew anything about the difficulty of the problem said it would take years to solve but Elon deliberately lied to pump stock prices, sell cars with a promise of future ability that never came, etc etc

I seriously think this is a bad idea.  Sorry to be skeptical of the thing that hasn’t worked right that was promised years ago.

Which I would argue is no where near good enough.  It’s a pretty sweet novelty though.

I think your objectivity of the software itself is being clouded by your hatred for Musk.

Hey as long as we get there!  It may be broken, but we can say we did it!  🙄 Please tell me I read this wrong or that it was extreme sarcasm, because that’s what I got from it.

My partner and I both wanted a Tesla. We both are huge SpaceX fans and Shotwell is doing an amazing job running it. Musk has gone off the rails. It isn’t hatred. Objectively critiquing someone’s statements isn’t hatred. Your blind devotion is clouding your ability to make rational assessments.

I've used it 3 times. Twice it went insanely slow, but it eventually makes it to me with some cars backed up behind it (awkward). The other time, it backed out of the parking spot then drove AWAY from me, eventually getting out of range, because it decided to go all the way down the lane and then loop back in the next lane. A human would have just pulled forward across the parking spot line and headed towards me, or even backed out awkwardly (like a 4 point turn or something) to face me.

In (some parts of) one city.

No, I'm talking about the software, you're talking about the man. The software is amazing and it's years ahead in the grand scheme of things.

Why do you think it's one city? I've been in different cities and used it. Yea it's a smaller service area depending on the city, but just so we are clear a lot of that has to do with gaining trust of said city. If you think Tesla is gonna just roll out robo taxi fully on 100% of roads without any cities freaking out about it , I have a bridge to sell you. The point is. Waymo is already a thing in multiple cities. Tesla robotaxi is not around anywhere. In a single town, city or parking lot.

Fun fact, for a time Tesla would deliver cars to customer’s houses. It wasn’t FSD, but a Tesla employee would actually drive it there. But the condition of the car would not be any different from what is currently proposed via FSD. More fun fact, every quarter Franz volunteers to do a few deliveries personally. So I imagine some customers are crazy stoked to meet Franz. Others are like, “who is this nice older gentleman?”

I've had 3 Model 3s delivered to my house. They just drop 'em off and drive off. Never even see the guys. Never had a problem. They give you same 24 hours/100 mile guarantee that you get at the Service Center. Edit: and no, I'm not a hoarder. One was totaled so I replaced it with another Model 3. I only have 2. 😁

If it comes to market, obviously I mean it's not broken. The full thing - safer than human drivers.

My main point in avoiding it is the point at which it ASS "arrives". For me to legitimately use it with any frequency it needs to be smart enough to have some "parking context" so if I tell it to come to me at the front of the store it doesn't just stop on the driving path and block other cars, but pull into the fire line right against the sidewalk so other cars can easily go around. Otherwise I'm always fearful of an awkward few moments while I get in the car.

Haha, ouch.

lol "years ahead". Maybe watch the original FSD video from 2016 where it was just "pending approval". They might be "ahead" of other car companies, but nowhere near as far along as Tesla (Musk specifically) has said they would be.

How do you inspect it?

Both things can be true. FSD is impressive and has made amazing progress, and Musk has made irresponsible and utterly fabricated claims about its capabilities and the timeline for its development every step of the way.

Rivian delivered my truck and it was great. I don't live on a farm so it wasn't dirty.

>I've always thought that ASS would be the primary indicator when FSD was ready for primetime. Then you have clearly never used both FSD and ASS. They perform very differently.

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I believe it's more complicated. While sure, it pumps stock prices (which I suppose *might* be debatable), it also motivates the team to aggressively point them in the same direction. Said another way... Crazy goals blabbered about without action pump stock prices. Crazy goals founded in remote possibility backed by a cohesive A+ technical team on board with the goal, good execution plan & adequate funding; pump stock prices and amplify the productivity vector toward actually accomplishing said crazy goal. Elon proponents would argue you have to take the good with the bad... I'm not sure you have to do anything, but you can absolutely objectively argue that both of these things can be true at the same time. Edited for clarity.

No, there is just a vocal minority who have issues and then the media blows it out of proportion. Most people have no issues.

No

> Waymo did that for years, accumulating millions of miles across their whole fleet, before start carrying passengers. > > Tesla has a a multitude more miles than that across its fleet. Just because there has been a driver in the driver's seat, doesn't mean the data is any less useful.

No wars were started.

Once again you're comparing the comments of the man to the tech. I'm simply saying if this was a game of Civ, this tech is a huge jump in the tech tree. No company, including Waymo is even close to a full generalized solution, if Tesla never existed the closest we'd have to self driving cars at all is geo-locked cars with massive sensors. It would be another 20 or so years (or longer) before we got to this point.

Don't pretend to know when you actually have no information

It means a lot. 1. They were legally allowed to operate an autonomous vehicle on public streets. 2. They were confident enough to go forward with the test, knowing full well how much is on the line if it went wrong.

Sceptical

I think the right counter, which frustratingly I don't see often, is that Waymo does this by choice and not because they would fare worse than FSD on highways if they tried. They think that's the best strategy for scaling safety after years of trial and error. And Tesla is copying it.

Have you ever used ASS? It's basically the same thing on a much bigger scale , and it works pretty good

That qualifier - with no incidents - doesn't mean much without the sample size. But irrespective of that, they also went forward with public rollout of older "autopilot" versions that ended up killing several people, and have repeatedly shown generally reckless attitude towards deploying life-critical tech in the field. So point #2 is moot. Point #1 stands though, but it doesn't mean much tech-wise.

Learn the definition of words before attempting use. Incorrectly predicting the future, is not lying.

Obviously Incorrect. Many people betting on Tesla have since become multi-millionaires through that investment alone, even though they almost never deliver on time. You have a basic misconception. The game is not how close Tesla can come to their own estimates. The game is how much ahead of competition Tesla is. Tesla‘s competition misses Tesla‘s estimates, by way more than Tesla misses them.

Fair point, but in this case the risks are much higher. Imagine the headlines if a Tesla Robotaxi killed a child?

Yeah, this is more like 6 years behind schedule so far.

FSD is nowhere near complete. Nothing you or anyone else says will change my opinion. Only real progress, delivered OTA to my car will change it.  I've been waiting 7 years, with FSD always "next year". Now the car is behaving irraticly over freaking tire marks, puddles, and shadows, on straight, clear roads. Since when have straight roads been a problem? It has been an endless precession of fix one item, break two more. So yeah, I'm not buying the hype until the software arrives, enabling complete and unsupervised FSD. Anything less is not what I paid for 7 years ago.

/r/whoosh

Whoosh

I think it was a joke. There was no one in the Y. Therefore, no one in the Y was injured.

It's not really any different from before.

He wasn’t predicting the future in a general sense. He promised a feature of his product in a specific timeframe. Huge difference. How do you not see the difference? Any geeky person can predict future tech. That isn’t the same as currently selling a product and promising it will do something you know it won’t be able to do within the lifespan of the product.

Priceless

It's different in that you can't blame the driver for misinterpreting what 'autopilot' means and assuming that the car is autonomous this time.

Sure but who picks up the trade in?

"works pretty good" is a low bar when the lives of other drivers are at stake. i will never cry over some dummy ending their own life because they treated their car like a toy, but the reality is that few automobile trips take place in isolation from other drivers.

Once again. He didn’t promise. Did you get upset and scream to your mommy and daddy that they lied to you, when they changed their mind about being able to take you out for ice cream? Is this still affecting you as an adult, that you get so upset about these kind of things? It’s a company. As an investor I take future goals and directions as current plans. As a wise investor, i expect them to pivot if different goals make sense. As an incredibly successful investor, I understand that Elon publicly setting hyper-optimistic goals is one of the key reasons for his companies’ unprecedented successes.

sounds terrifying, since every time I have tried FSD it has done bat-guano crazy stuff

If it comes to market everywhere it better take a 180 from where it's at in my neck of the woods. Fucking unusable. I shouldn't have to intervene multiple times a mile because it wants to crowd oncoming traffic at 60mph. Someone's going to be in a body bag for FSD. Many of us in this area have had serious issues with the operation. The problem is the one to be hurt will be someone not from one of these areas using FSD not realizing it's a serious safety problem. It's got to be a rural road problem, because it's fine when i'm in St Paul and wasn't bad in Chicago. I'm not going to pay for it living in small town Midwest. It flat out doesn't understand how to position itself in a lane with opposing traffic and almost seems to aim towards oncoming traffic in areas that aren't double yellow lines. Say that I am in a passing zone and oncoming traffic still has a solid yellow for no passing. FSD will seem to only see the solid yellow line and not the dashed line and then get even closer to the other lane. This is unacceptable. I gave up after 3 straight months of submitting tickets on it daily. I'm not spending $99 a month to continue to tell them what a problem is if they don't care to fix it. For now instead of fighting for unsupervised they should disable its ability to work on undivided highways, including Autosteer because it does the same thing. It's so infuriating seeing how glowing the reviews are of FSD and so many are sure of unsupervised and it can't handle basic driving etiquette where I live. The false sense of security with FSD is absolutely mind blowing. I guess it makes sense if it works so well in some places. The problem is that it doesn't in others and when it fucks up because you're so convinced of how perfect it is I'll probably be too late. I wish this world of complacency and letting tech do shit for us would just die. We're losing skills and become shittier drivers as time goes on. Traffic shows me we get even closer to not being able to function in society. Holy shit.

Even ignoring that, it was supposed to come out in June. According to this it comes out in June, how is that a month ahead...

Supporting evidence? I didn’t see any mention of remote human oversight, or lack thereof. Only that no humans would be inside the vehicle. That does not rule out remote human supervision.

Oh yeah, I remember that! October 2018 - They sent me a message saying my car would be delivered. Time came and went. I called Tesla service and they said "Oh, that's weird, your car isn't ready. We should have never sent you that delivery confirmation message..." One more false delivery promise and then finally, the third attempt comes. Time window comes and goes without hearing from them. Then, I get a call telling me my car was damaged during unloading. Did I want to wait for the repair or wait for a new car? I wasn't about to buy a brand new car that was already damaged! I waited a month and FINALLY got my new car in relatively pristine condition. Interestingly, the first car VIN was around the 40,000 mark while the new car was right at 100,000. I think that first car had been bouncing around the country awhile before they tried to pawn it off on me hahah.

Tried FSD in Ottawa, Canada for 2 months. Does not work well with all the potholes and snow covering road markings. Doesn't even do well with speed bumps.

How can you say no, when Elon himself said yes. He clearly stated they will be remotely supervised with option to take over if it gets stuck.

You don't know that Musk lied. It is at least as likely that he sincerely believed it would be done sooner only to hit roadblocks a few times and having to pivot the software strategy. I've been paid up for FSD for nearly six years too but am not bitter about the effort that was required and the investment that Tesla has made to reach this point.

I mean NO in that there isn't someone operating the vehicle remotely 24/7. There will be a control center monitoring the fleet. Should one of them need support, then a human operator will take over and remedy the issue. This will always be the case, even when there are thousands of them on the road.

“Mommy and daddy” is such a sad reply. Hope it makes you feel strong and intellectually superior. Have a good day.

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Their focus has been on this June Robotaxi launch for months. I'm guessing personal cars will get benefit from that FSD work after that rush is over, hopefully sometime this summer.

And I'm not buying that you even own the software, because your "experience" is certainly in the minority.

It's taxis. Driver or no it's still a taxi.

Not sure if the question was referring to the ultimate form or the present case since the answer to the latter was right in the post. There was a Tesla engineer sitting in the vehicle, but not on the driver’s seat. So in that sense, yes, it was being supervised at least locally for sure. This will also be the case during the initial launch of Robotaxi. During the initial phase, they will have a driver sitting in the driver’s seat out of an abundance of caution. Ultimately, yes, there will be a remote team supervising the fleet. But they wouldn't be actively monitoring each vehicle. More like clearing issues as vehicles throw errors. Much like Waymo does today. [https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1927821418755932506](https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1927821418755932506)

It really doesn’t though. I use it as a novelty with my co-workers, and it always ends up with all of us laughing at it, and me having to run after it.

lol yeah no.

Uhh it’s not op’s standards. it’s the standards that Elon himself stated. And he’s the one who brought up the timeline again? So how is that op’s issue at all

lol more false promises

In fact most of us were naive nine years ago. Every car manufacturer back then was saying that they were within five years of at least level 3 autonomy. Some believed it would be less. Then in 2018 they all started backing away, baulking at the required effort; all except Tesla and a couple of non manufacturers, Mobileye and the now Waymo. Other players have come and gone and in a few years Tesla will have competition some of which are pivoting to follow Tesla.

I believe 13.2.9 is better at ASS arrival; but I only saw it once in a video.

No accountability for the people spewing these empty promises?

At this point, Tesla’s biggest feature might be plot twists.

LOL. You have never used FSD V13. It's amazing

I just told a co-worker I would never do this no matter how cool it is. My luck, the car would arrive with rock chips and a broken windshield. Where’s that “Return to Sender” button? lol

FSD V13 is amazing. It drives me hundreds of miles without intervention.

Not V13. I push a button in my driveway and 250 miles later arrive without touching the wheel or pedals.

Technically, you have 100 miles from the time of delivery, to mention things that are wrong so they can get them fixed.

Wrong. It is remarkable for me. Amazing.

You didn't answer my question about whether English is your second language. I am trying to determine if you deliberately twisted my words or if it was just an honest misunderstanding. So now we have two answers about where you got it from: first you said it was from the title of the post. Now you are saying it is from a different article (or "common knowledge" which sounds more than a little weaselly to me) But hey, fair's fair, I'm glad you finally actually said where you got it from. It was pulling teeth, but we got there in the end.

But the point he’s making is that if the car is having issues getting around a parking lot, then it doesn’t bode well for unsupervised FSD

It would be a lot easier if you actually said you were pulling from outside sources (you claimed it was from the title in your other post). You made this unnecessarily more confrontational than it needed to be, and undermined your own points in the process.

Exactly. They forgot to clarify, there were no *international* incidents.

Promise only means possiblity when a politician says it. For everyone else it means your own honour is on the line if you don't make it happen. I've been speaking English for sixty years. But maybe young'uns have a lower sense of humanity.

Keep dreaming.

Nothing wrong with dreaming :)

I’ll believe it when I see it. Of course I’d expect to have those delivery fees waived, right? /s

I would expect it to be supervised by a remote driver.  But that's fine.

The claims made remind me of OceanGate. Just because you didn't crash doesn't mean it's now deemed safe.

Idk what year and model you have.. but on my Juniper/launch MY edition it works so smooth, I use it all the time and keep it on standby mode for it. I even get in the back seat and control it and let it drive me around , or take it for walks 🤣

The question was “No one in drivers seat but is it being remote operated/supervised?”, and your answer was “No”. I think the correct answer is “remotely supervised with remote operation as needed to rectify problems”. In theory most of the problems requiring intervention should be detected by the FSD software, but that doesn’t preclude a passenger from reporting a problem where FSD thinks it has everything under control. In the end, the difference between full autonomy and supervision is the interventions per mile. When a human is locally driving by themselves, they have zero supervision and zero interventions per mile. Hopefully FSD can someday approach that level, but that does not appear likely this year.

Well, to be fair, humans are also "pretty good" at driving. From a contextual viewpoint, what's the difference?

Do you think if you make condescending comments to this guys we will forget that you actually it addressed any of his points?

Evasive. He made clear points which you deliberately avoid to address

I would actually argue that humans are pretty bad at driving.

> what's the difference? With human-operated vehicles, there's someone to be held accountable when something goes wrong. who's going to go to jail when a self-driving tesla delivery kills someone? last i checked, you can't send a corporation to jail and the executive class seems to be adept at wriggling their way out of accountability.

No one died

I agree! However, I don't think the solution is the same amount of cars with fewer drivers. I think the solution is fewer cars, higher standards for drivers, more walkable and bikeable communities, and more public transit. We don't need self-driving cars to make transit more efficient. Tesla is trying to reinvent 'the train' and 'the bus.'

Yes, I got mine in that era, but I moved and they were planning on delivering it to my old house. It was a giant shitshow getting it fixed. We got them to agree to just to leave it at the factory and we'd go get it and then like the next day they called back and said it's ready early we've deleted that and arranged drop off at your house at (old address). The actual factory pickup was very smooth, they just texted me what stall it was in and my wife drove me the hour or so to get there and I drove it home.

They way it worked back in the day is you would walk around the exterior and hit accept car in the app and it would unlock it. You had 100 miles from that odometer reading to complain about cosmetics so even if you didn't like something in the exterior you could always just not accept it. But given at that time the waitlist had been over a year to get to that point most people just accepted whatever they got and then put in service requests for the rest. These days I imagine people would be pickier.

I meant if it's already at your house....

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You must be new here huh?

You should be able to review the vehicle and reject delivery if there's something wrong. Then it drives itself back to a service center to have the issues addressed.

Exactly the same - why would it be any different? If you reject the car, it drives itself back to the SC.

Seems like a lot of miles to put on a new car.

I am pretty sure ASS is part of the hilariously-outdated AP software stack and has nothing to do with FSD.

The only thing that *could* be needed for *unsupervised* FSD is the front bumper camera retrofit for HW4 cars that don't have it yet. Nothing else will be needed.

>And it’s honestly kinda crazy they finally did FSD testing on public roads… **for a few days** (as claimed, does anyone have videos?), and deemed it ready to start carrying passengers (Robotaxi service is around the corner) You're either stupid or not arguing in good faith. There's nothing "crazy" about this. Tesla has been testing FSD on public roads for alot longer than a few days. Like i said, they first started more than 6 months ago with a safety driver in the car. And you think that it makes a difference that there's now no safety driver? It's the same system, same FSD, just without a driver. They've been testing it for many many months and yes, they have deemed that it is now good enough that they can test it without a safety driver AND in another couple of weeks will begin driving passengers. Nothing changes by simply removing the driver. If they were testing the current version of FSD for 6+ months (with a safety driver) and had 0 interventions, then why does it matter if they've only tested it a few days or a few weeks without a driver? It doesn't.

Don't worry, Tesla can just roll the odometer back  ( /s ... I think ? )

Legally they can't do it.

> If you would have asked someone 10 years ago when general purpose self-driving would be realized most would have said 30-70 years. Alternatively, if you would've asked someone 9 years ago when full self-driving would be realized, some people would've said *"probably soon, Tesla is already selling it"*.

tHaT's THe jOKe

I feel like "Summon" should just be renamed to "Summon a car immediately behind it" because even in completely empty lots there will always be some car that immediately shows up behind it. It's like a force of nature. Also the current radius on it I find to just be useless, since by the time it's getting started I'm already like 15 feet away from the car.

Delineating between with and without a safety driver is stupid. It's the same version of FSD. If they've been testing the current version of FSD with a safety driver for 6-12 months, and then they remove the safety driver - how is it different? It's not. It's the same FSD. The fact that they removed the safety driver doesn't matter. It just means that they're satisfied with the testing they've done with the safety driver enough that they feel like they can now remove the driver.

Tell me then , which version of FSD have they been testing with a safety driver for the last 6-12 months and which version have they been testing without a safety driver? If you don't know the answer to this, then your argument is stupid and invalid.

I'm guessing this has to be a newer FSD version on geo-fenced roads that they know work at this point, similar to Waymo. I'm on 12.6 over here but I can't imagine even on FSD 13 that it's anywhere near good enough yet to expect no issues arising.

They haven't confirmed it but the only mention of it was by Elon a couple months ago and at the time said Unsupervised FSD would be launched with v14. Who knows. Certainly they will clarify by launch date.

No, it's not. The car isn't legally yours until you accept delivery after inspecting it. There's no issue here.

Wrong. They have to take blame until the moment you accept the delivery.

The question is if you think that's actually real.

Lmao. You think they haven't improved FSD on the same hardware? Then you haven't been paying attention.

ASS is unrelated to FSD. Completely different software stack.

It was an attempt to get across to you how childish it is to characterize companies changing goals, or missing goals, as broken promises and lying.

“Ahead of schedule” is a weird way to talk about something you said would be done years ago

😂

Right. And back in the day they had some dude drive it and then Uber back, no joke, so this is actually easier on all parties to reject a car. It just trundles back in shame.

When you get a car at a conventional dealer it always has some miles on it especially if they had to swap it between dealers because you wanted a different color or something.

Wake me up when that code runs on my early 2018 Model 3. Also, my heart goes out to the pre-2018 FSD owners - I still think of y’all.

The X thousands of miles driven daily, and past several days, really don't hold much weight. IF it was actually working, tested, and approved, it would be something. Otherwise, it's just vaporware. Waymo already has infrastructure and working rides. Tesla just has a cheerleader who signalled to the far-right he likes to be full-arm fisted.

The current FSD version sometimes requires intereventions. Unless they magically solved the problem they couldn't solve for 10 years it matters. If they solved it somehow I feel that would be even bigger news than robotaxi. It doesn't make sense for unsupervised robotaxi to exist when FSD still requires supervision.

I am sure they’ll word the agreement in their favor, such that by accepting automated delivery to your specified address, you accept delivery in full.

They are starting with 10-15 vehicles. If there wouldn't be 1-on-1 monitoring, they would start with more vehicles.

Coming from the guy with zero credibility. He said they would have Robotaxis on the road by 2020 and FSD feature complete.

Probably not. They could already do that for their service center deliveries, but they don't. But even if so, you still don't have to accept that agreement.

If it’s a connectivity issue, that shouldn’t impact its ability to actually function autonomously though.

Not denying that it’s amazing. But he doesn’t have to lie about it.

Initially, there will be a driver in the vehicle.

yeah i know, but this could add a significant amount beyond normal transfers.

They're promoting no one driving their cars because no one is buying them. Great business model. Now that he has our IRS information, he can just charge our accounts. He wins, we lose.

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I keep wondering who really cares about this.

Also, if it's on company property with company property, that is double jeopardy

Wonder what happens if it gets a rock chip in the window during delivery

Homeboy just says stuff

I wish it was “For the past several months “. Days for unsupervised is too short to make solid conclusion for FSD unsupervised.

This "impossible" has happened every day for years with Waymo.

" month ahead of schedule"?! It's like 5 years late!

Still waiting for the car to go find a parking spot... That feature would be amazing.

So has a bunch of chinese companies

Im pretty sure it is being 1 on 1 monitored with a VR system. Just look at the way elon says it. "Test model Ys, no one in the driver seat". He is being technically correct.

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It is for sure being monitored with a VR system. No incidents means they were able to stop the car before potential crashes. If it were the case that no interventions were needed, elon would for sure boast about it. The fact that he didnt, and used the wording no incidents, means that interventions were needed

"ready next year"

"FSD next year" -2015

The irony is you meant this as sarcasm, when it's dead on accurate. Although it's not pathetic, it's deceptive by Musk, and he's been heavily rewarded for his deceptive marketing practices.

Yea; guess it’s a start after 8 years of nothing. Wake up when I can sleep from NYC to LA and local rides costs $7 like Musk said they would.

We can all come up with hypotheticals. I'm a lot closer to my nearest Tesla service center than the distance between the last place I bought a Honda and the place they drove it over from. Also consider that test driving puts miles on cars. Most of the Hondas I've purchased had 50-75 miles on them. Teslas have all been single digits. I wish I'd taken a screenshot of the one I picked up at the factory but I didn't think of it. But if they drove it from the local center to my house it would still come with maybe 20-30 tops.

I suppose they can take a portion of the money saved and make sure each car comes out flawless. (Or close to)

Agreed. Wait, so sorry, I thought you were talking about the last Starship launch. Shame about that one. /sarcasm, my point being that Musk goes ahead even when there are problems

Man is complaining about having to do something one time

That’s the thing. They don’t trust it

I guess you can draw any conclusion you want for the time being. I don’t really give a shit. We’ll know if this is going to succeed soon enough.

glorious quickest important fade hobbies absorbed beneficial slim person quicksand *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

LMAO, no. AI tech was basically at its infancy, and definitely wasn't a household word yet. ChatGPT wasn't even known yet and wouldn't be even on the radar until 2018. Most of Tesla's original stack was hardcoded. At best, there was some very rudimentary self-driving software, but nothing that made people think software like FSD was right around the corner.

No media report

Glad it's not just me! I could use Summon at midnight in an abandoned parking lot in a ghost town and IMMEDIATELY a car would appear, in a big hurry to get to somewhere the other side of the parking lot getting with its driver gesticulating angrily at my slow moving ASS car (but make no effort to avoid or go around it).

Tesla will not have any competition. They are too far behind. Chinese companies are ahead or have parity already. Meanwhile there are already self driving taxis. If you add lidar, it becomes more reliable. Tesla is refusing to. Want will likely happen is Tesla will take camera only tech as far as it can go, and maybe get some better level of autonomy, maybe level 4 one day. Meanwhile BYD and LiDAR systems will have level 4 before Tesla and major manufacturers will just adapt the tech over 1-2 years once all the dust settle. I own two teslas use autopilot. Their current tech is pretty good but it’s charging at windmills. Using “cameras” is fine when those two “cameras” are connected to a living brain. If it’s a computer why not give it more and more accurate data? I get why they want to go camera only but I also don’t see why they have to do it now…why not build it out with lidar *then* consider using all the data to cut lidar for smaller, lower end models/less featured vehicles etc

>The most entitled generation in history. Surely you're referring to "The ME Generation" right?

Well who pay the cost of damage if something when wrong during the delivery via FSD?

Or a dust storm to obscure the camera's visibility.

not doubting that isn't true, but why the hell would they do that when they have a software designed to be fully autonomous.

The most bought car in the US needs new customers?

Tesla requires you to have insurance before they will release the car to you.

Based on my personal experience. It is really bad

"no one in driver's seat" is oddly specific. Is there anybody in the other seats?

If there are winners, then there are losers. There are also a lot of people who lost money. You have a very narrow perspective.

So? When would the car be “released”?

Whenever it leaves the lot.

Lmao...no incidents in several days?!

Next month lol?

I think the problem he was getting at is that if there are any warranty claims, or for instance, if you choose not to take delivery because of a defect, Tesla would be legally required to transport the vehicle back to the SC (via FSD or otherwise). Obviously not a problem if the distance isn’t too far and the battery has enough juice remaining to make it, but might be a bigger hassle over long distance deliveries.

Of course Waymo is currently cheaper. at 90% of Uber, with a long-term target of 40%, while Tesla's long-term target is 20%. The number of vehicles in the fleet affects the waiting time, and the fleet size is influenced by the car price. The long-term target price of a car is $50,000–$60,000 for Waymo and $20,000–$30,000 for Tesla. It seems that you have no idea about the fragmentation issue at all. Waymo has no foreseeable plan to scale the hardware, has no factories, and needs to depend on car manufacturers. which will make them confront the fragmentation issue.

For a $50K or more vehicle, that would be no bueno for me. I'll ride share or get a friend to drive me to an SC.

It’s almost like roads can vary greatly in different areas and FSD isn’t good enough to manage all that. My car running v13 almost came to a stop on an interstate due to barrels merging traffic for a lane closure. That could get someone killed.

Cybernazi has been promising FSD “next year” since 2006.

Happens all the time with software. AP and ASS aren't broken, so I don't know why you think this is a problem. It just means that the ASS and FSD behaviors are unlinked. I believe the plan is for AP to be FSD lite eventually, which could explain why AP is not available for the Cybertruck.

SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUre

It's too late, the name is dog shit

If this does work eventually, I wonder if you can have the car drive itself to the service centre

Well, its May right now; looks like they have some time to do some last minute dress rehearsals. The previous timeline was probably dress rehearsal last week of June, go live on the last day of June. Now the dress rehearsal is happening last week of May, for a early June launch.

Hehe all it took was dismantling the government body that gives oversight to cars.

That is interesting. There do seem to be unique situations that users encounter, like the one you describe. I assume that V14 is going to be a big leap forward the way V13 has been over previous versions. I have been so impressed the way mine has handled a variety of road situations. Still, I would never fail to supervise it in its current form.

What is we're fine?

Exactly, with how successful waymo has been expanding i could see robo taxis absolutely ramping up production. These robo taxis will be growing in numbers so fast i expect rapid city approvals and huge numbers coming in next year, bigger than estimates could plan for. Tesla will leap over waymo it will be incredible.

How would it be a connectivity issue?  It just does weird shit at times.  Like  it has a hard time analyzing what’s around it.

I am not sure who you are addressing this to. But if it was to me, could you please tell me the top point you think I did not address?

Sure bud, if they were you would have heard about this from people taking pictures or videos yet none exists.

Waymo just hit their 10 _millionth_ paid ride, as well. People are acting like the "goes anywhere, works everywhere" dream of Tesla robotaxi is the important bit, when > 90% of rides can be serviced in comprehensively trained metropolitan areas. Waymo's map in Phoenix is _massive_, nearly 300 square miles, and covers millions of people. It's expanding all the time. The biggest drawback is that they're still not on freeways yet, but when they add that... The point here is that dismissing Waymo as a fractional offering as if that isn't perfectly viable for a _massive percentage of daily rides_ is insane. The idea that Tesla robotaxis will... what, help realize the dream of coast-to-coast driverless travel that we need? It's asinine. About as asinine as the dumbass idea that anyone who spent $70k-$150k on a Tesla would willingly allow their car to be used by complete strangers, unattended, to pick up a few dollars of fares. Hence the pivot to Tesla-owned robotaxis. The biggest leg up Tesla has is obviously manufacturing throughput. But I think we're going to continue to see substantial drawbacks and problems with the vision-only model in terms of edge case safety, that Waymo simply obviates with its sensor fusion suite. And I think there's a decent chance it kills someone extremely early in its launch. Waymo's safety record is absolutely remarkable, in comparison.

I still have like 10 things on my list they need to fix before they can launch fsd in non geofenced areas.

If he said sky was blue, I’d go outside and check. Not trusting anything from this guy who is well known for lying for the majority of his career

Oooh, 60 years? I am impressed. **Oxford** has as its second definition when used as a noun: "the quality of potential excellence". I mean, the guy actually turned my used of the word from a noun to a verb, so that should have been the first clue to someone such as yourself (60 years and all that) that perhaps he was not being entirely genuine in his response. But here are more, so that you can fix the gaping hole in your English knowledge (these are the second definitions, so be sure to read past the first sentence if you go look them up): **Merriam-Webster**: reason to expect something **Collins**: If someone or something shows promise, they seem likely to be very good or successful. **Cambridge**: If someone or something shows promise, they are likely to be successful I should note that the verb is the about the same anyway, so it's not like that dodge will help you. Now, your last sentence appears to show you don't know what "humanity" means either. Do you need me to look up those definitions for you as well? Or do you think, after the shellacking you just got, you might want to just walk away instead?

Say your new car perfectly drives itself to your home, but arrives with a rock chip or a cracked windshield due to a rock thrown up by another car on the road, that would have to be dealt with by the manufacturer. If there are any of the common issues with the car that people typically find at the SC, that would require a trip to deal with as well. A lot of things can go wrong with a car on public roads that are unrelated to the skill of the driver, that's why it still makes sense to have new vehicles picked up with minimal miles on the odometer. Not saying I think it won't work, but I am saying it makes some sense to require pick up of an un-driven new vehicle even when self-driving delivery is possible.

That FSD has only been driverless for a couple of days before taking passengers?

Also if it drives 100 miles and you reject delivery for a minor defect, then it drives 100 miles back, it's now a used car with 200 miles on it, Tesla can't just fix the defect and sell it as new like they would have if you rejected it at the service center.

I wouldn't expect a customer taking delivery of a car that was damaged before they ever even saw it to accept making a claim against their own insurance to have it repaired. Maybe you're right that this would be the policy, but I don't know anyone who would accept liability for damage that they didn't cause in this situation.

State the top point you think I evaded.

Could you back that up with something a bit firmer than just a blanket statement that is till required interventions? Do we even know exactly what version they are running on these cars? Do you have numbers on how many interventions they had in that time? I am genuinely interested in this.

I'm sorry that you ended up winning the unlikely and unlucky lottery. Unfortunately every single manufacturer has vehicles that leave their factory that would make the engineers really mad, and those few cars definitely will leave the buyer unhappy. It's definitely not the norm, not that that is much consolation to you.

Haha. Yes the people like you, who thought estimate accuracy was more important than ACTUAL resorts compared to competitors, and shorted Tesla did collectively lose 10’s of billions of dollars:-)

There is no data, that's the point. Tesla has it but doesn't share. You can be sure though, that if the number was extremely small they would publish it. As to version of FSD that will be on robotaxis that's another mystery. If they have a version that they think is better than current public FSD is, why not release it to the public first so you can have millions of people testing it before putting robotaxis on the road?

Well they won't be delivering it near sunrise or sunset.

When you sign the paperwork. You should still be able to refuse delivery upon arrival.

Don't pay attention to the goalpost-sized holes in the ground

>There is no data Then you are basing your argument on "vibes". That's too bad. I thought you might have something.

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I’m going by what the person you replied to said: > I’ve only had issue when I have “poor connection”

I don’t think HW4 will ever see widespread unsupervised, front bumper camera or not.  I think we’ll see one more major hardware revision. We’ve been told for years we’re on the hardware that will do it.  I don’t believe that for a second.

What constitutes unsupervised?  Everywhere?

So is the idea to release slowly city by city?  Whats the point in FSD going anywhere and everywhere without restrictions?  You run out of an area and now you’re back on supervised?

You are entitled to your opinion, but the remaining issues are not hardware-related. They are training related.

Wow. Gotta keep those eyes on the road:)

Legal ruling from a judge that it was tesla’s fault

That was said with HW3 until they found the limit.  That was supposed to get to unsupervised.

Yes. But you seem to think that this increases the chances HW4 will suffer the same fate. It doesn't. HW4 is an order of magnitude more powerful. It will be enough for unsupervised. HW5 will be superhuman.

Will the car drive itself back to the factory when the consumer notices the panel gap problems?

Yes, so many promised features in FSD release notes that haven't been delivered yet.

What if you have paint chips and quality issues from factory? All useless stuff that has no value in real world. Improving build quality will be time well spent.

Probably because they don’t

Selfishly, As a FSD Y owner in Austin, thanks for practicing in Austin. Hopefully it will improve my experience in Austin. FSD has come a long way in the three years I’ve owned it but I’ve only recently been able to use it regularly. But I never have a trip in which I don’t need to assist in some way. Each trip needs assistance on the departure and arrival. No exceptions there…. But if the Jaguar/Waymo can do it, Tesla should be able to do it.

Clarifying…the reason I’ve started using it more lately is because it’s working better and less nerve wracking. Over the past three years I’ve tried it from time to time to see how it’s coming along and quickly moved on due to the stress of its inadequacies. It’s much much better now and I’m using it almost every time I’m in the car.

Me crying in my HW3

Same thing that happens when you're driving in a snow or dust storm that obscures visibility. I've been in plenty in the arctic.

So will people who currently have FSD get the unsupervised version? Or will this be extra cost? Will it be available for all new Tesla models? thanks.

That is my point. It will not drive itself to the new owner.

Just like me, it will wait till the storm passes then it will drive

Hahahahaha. Stock up 96% in last year. Market Cap over 1 trillion dollars. LOL.

I had entirely written off FSD on my 2020 x, The one month trial last year was awful. But then I got a 2025 Y for a weekend as a loaner and decided to try out FSD again. And suddenly I'm in the market for a new Tesla.

lol 5?

No incidents *so far* is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Testing driverless delivery is a bold move — and if it works, it’s a huge flex. But rolling it out on public roads without wide transparency or public input raises a ton of questions. Regulatory green lights? Safety redundancies? Who's liable if something goes wrong? Cool tech, no doubt. But let’s not pretend skipping a driver entirely doesn’t open a whole new can of legal and ethical worm

This is what happened a few miles after picking up my Y, so a definite possibility!

I will never use an autonomous Tesla. EVER!

If you have Supervised FSD now then will you be getting Unsupervised FSD automatically when it is available?

That's only a HW3 problem.

I mean those tesla robots last year were being boasted about being fully autonomous and then a week later we found out they were actually remote controlled. Precedent is there that this is still several years away. At best the robotaxis are going to be able to replicate Waymo, operating in a geofenced area on very specific roads. Keep in mind that Waymo has been fully operational since 2020.

Definitely not everywhere. This is absolutely going to be geofenced for the foreseeable future, even if for no other reason than legal restrictions (it could be 100% safe starting tomorrow and it still wouldn't be allowed outside of geofenced areas).

I figured so. The only vehicles with Level 3 are geofenced. It may be a slow process, but it seems to be a reliable one.

I would be suspicious, since it sometimes is great and sometimes blocks a lane or something dumb

It will be available to everyone who bought a Tesla at least since January 2023, for free if you own FSD currently, probably else for the same $100/mo subscription.

Okay.

If you bought the full package, yes. Not sure how the subscription will work, which is a major reason I spent the $8000

Sadly, they have already said that unsupervised FSD will not be coming to pre-2023 M3/MY. If you bought the FSD package they are going to make good and upgrade your car somehow. If you didn't buy the FSD, you will never get it :(

I volunteer as tribute!

2 years from now, FSD won't be coming to pre-2026-2027 vehicles. The goal post will keep changing until it's actually achieved. I don't mind waiting, and I strongly believe in Elon Musk's approach to FSD, but I do think it's irresponsible and deceptive how he's gone about it.

Human fatalities are just another data point.

What changed? (ex: version number, hardware)

Is that really true? Is the latest version that much better? What about the recent videos of Teslas literally straight-up veering off the road and crashing? Are you not afraid of edge cases like shadows, paint or potholes causing confusion?

Mind googling for me how many Teslas are selling right now? Then define "no one" for me please.

That was before they discovered FSD requires solving generalized vision AI. They tried a lot of different approaches in the interest of making it to the finish line, avoiding some of the novel techniques (such as full end-to-end networks) that have ultimately proven necessary. Perhaps they're still not at the finish line, but end-to-end neural networks seem to show much more promise than trying to blend hardcoded traditional software and AI. It's "the bitter lesson" at work.

3 vs 4. And an extra year of development probably didn't hurt either.

The fellow who's car veered into the tree had his telemetry data analyzed. The wheel was torqued just prior to FSD disengaging. Probably nicked it with his knee. Here is an excellent analysis https://youtu.be/JoXAUfF029I?si=_ZQFVy4Etyn5itpJ I took a 500 mile trip recently with FSD V13..Day and night driving, City and highway. FSD was terrific. I sat back, relaxed, and let the Tesla do the driving. It drives me around everywhere with out incident. Then we have this data... https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-vehicle-safety-report-that-shows-autopilot-10-times-better-than-humans/