Front bumper camera confirmed

A very sad day for every single previous owner of FSD then, as this would be the admission that they are indeed not capable enough to see in front of them for true FSD features.

A retrofit should be possible.

I wouldn’t put it past Tesla as purposefully leaving this out on the Model 3 (after originally planning to include it) just as a way of adding a revenue stream down the line from all the people who want to pay to retrofit a front camera onto their car when they see the new and shiny Model Y has one.

Will this come to model 3 too?

It really should, just like the turn signal stalk. But only Tesla knows if that will happen.

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That’s going to be very useful in rain and snow.

|____ 😀____| 🚗

While it SHOULD had one from the beginning, i would sadly pay for a retrofit on my 2024 M3.

Yep, same.

Yeah, 100% this. I'm a 2018 M3 owner with FSD, was clutching to the faint hope that sure they could build a retrofit computer easily enough (I already upgraded from HW2.5 to HW3) and maybe they could have done something for the cameras? I was a little more uncertain on that. Adding a whole new one? Definitely much more questionable now. Best case scenario now (to attempt to avoid a class-action lawsuit) is that Tesla either offers 100% of what you paid for FSD back, or maybe they offer 2 future transfers - FSD off of the current non-upgradeable vehicle to something that has all the camera configs, and then 1 more thrown in there.

About 9:50 into the vid -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts9RycgZhpw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts9RycgZhpw)

supposedly new hw4 model y’s (not juniper) actually have the proper ports for this retrofit. they have a unique hardware computer called ‘HW4 RELOADED’ and my guess is older hw4 computers will probably be swapped to hw4 reloaded and then get the bumper camera installed

Hopefully this is also on the new model 3 as well

Thanks for that timestamp - here are timestamped links to the part you're talking about and to the part where he shows the front camera view on the screen: showing on outside: https://youtu.be/Ts9RycgZhpw?t=585 showing on screen: https://youtu.be/Ts9RycgZhpw?t=2203

It's actually not currently being used for autopilot or FSD, Kyle mentions this in the out of spec video. Whether this will change in the future, perhaps, but there was also a new hw4 computer that went live with a front bumper camera port (indicating support for retrofit).

Any idea when said “new” models began having it?

Not sure how this would help FSD significantly. Maybe front-first parking support? Other than that it’s not like the computer needs to see the 2 feet in front of the car for self driving.

I guess you haven’t seen Actual Smart Summon needing to always reverse a few feet just to make sure it doesn’t run over a child.

Yes. A highland refresh with stalk and bumper camera would be great.

We have a 2018 Model 3 Performance with FSD - ask me about it 😄 I’m still curious to see how Tesla is going to enable FSD in the future with these cars, especially in Germany / Europe.

I’ve never personally seen it.

Maybe. If the wiring exist or easy access. I would think it’s just a matter replacing bumper with new bumper with camera, remove frunk to access wiring and run it to nearest terminal/power and done. High chance model 3 is wired for the camera since we had early pictures of it showing.

If at one point it’s required for FSD or makes it safer, should be free retrofit for FSD customers.

Youre letting them off too easy. FSD should be account bound. Infinite transfers.

Green recently good his hands on what appears to be a revised model y board with a front camera port seemingly meant for retrofit. Seems likely it's coming, question is will it be free for FSD owners.

Wait, when did they drop from 8 cameras down to 7? Which camera was dropped ?

Doubt it’s for FSD driving, most likely for forward facing auto parking and smart summon.

How about vehicle to home power?

Top of the windscreen. Was 3 there in the past but now only 2.

Got it thanks

Should be mainly used for parking. They can always park a certain way to avoid that scenario.

They’ve messed around with the config of FSD sensors so much over all these refreshes the hardware fragmentation must be insane to deal with.

If its free it will only be free for those who bought it outright, not for FSD monthly subscribers.

Juniper model y basically added a bunch of aftermarket hanshow parts as official. Front camera is super useful for everyday driving. making sure you dont hop over curbs or high parking curb stops

Honest question, what is this front camera good for that it gets so much hype?

Totally - I don’t envy the factory or service personnel.

it should be easier to identify bumps on FSD, which FSD currently does not do well at all, i was trying FSD with passengers in the back and their heads almost hit the roof going thru a bump going 35mph.

You can see through your bumper and know exactly where the front is. Mostly useful for fsd in parking lots and on start to see in the front blindspot. Would allow summon to work better and park forward. Maybe possible to improve autopilot in traffic as you get a better distance measurement to the car in front. Allows you to get closer.

No it's not lol. For all you know, it might never be even used for FSD. It could just be a driver aid. But even if it is used for FSD in the future, it's obviously not *necessary* for FSD. Humans have always driven with a blind spot in front of their hood. You don't *need* visibility there to drive. It would obviously help, but it's not necessary.

100% not this. Why are you jumping to conclusions on this camera being necessary for FSD? If you think about it for even 10 seconds, it obviously isn't.

This is their strategy - by the time FSD matures, people would’ve moved on to a new Tesla. The used cars they selling not capable of true FSD - remove the feature and just enable autosteer. Rinse and repeat.

They did publicly say the current updated model 3 would be able to reach unsupervised FSD meaning either the front camera will never get used for full self driving or they will have to retrofit in the future

No. As an owner, as much as I might like that ... no. That's just not the norm in the software industry, and for somewhat good reasons there are ongoing labor costs over time. I don't get to have all of the modern 2025 capabilities of my Adobe Photoshop v1.0 license that I bought decades ago. But that's what you're saying Tesla should do here.

OOOH that’s why it’s reverses lmaoo every time this happens to me I always smash the forward button to speed it up… wonder how many I’ve hit 😂

If only they added the one I care about the most, power frunk. 😔

since Reddit isn't only U.S. folks.... to confirm, this screenshot IS from the U.S. Tesla site?

To be fair and realistic, Elon/Tesla have said a lot of things.

To be fair and realistic, yyyyyup

This camera won’t address the bigger hardware problems.

Except humans see what’s there when they come back to the car.

The thing is tho that Tesla promised the literal definition of full self driving with 2.5 hardware. If they can’t keep their promise either a full refund or free transfers until level 5 is achieved. Then you get one final transfer once the once they achieve it. Adobe never promised you similar things. You bought the perpetual license for what they offered right then and there and not every single future update.

Depends which way they approach the car from and where the obstacle is positioned, along with its size. That is certainly an advantage for humans because it will help them see the obstacle some percentage of the time, but there's still always a chance they don't see it. And the car has other advantages over humans that could completely offset that slight disadvantage. All of this put together means that it makes no sense to say with confidence that a front bumper camera is *necessary* for FSD.

+1 Having gone from a car with no cameras anywhere to a Tesla to a BMW (don’t judge it was an insurance issue) with a front bumper camera it’s very useful.

No front camera on the model 3 Highland? How does the FSD work without a front camera?

Yeah my 2019 MX has 3 front facing cameras side by side, at the top/center of the windshield.

Get a lucid air :)

I know this is a lot of variation by Tesla standards, but have you seen how many configurations legacy autos have? That’s truly headache inducing just to think about, between all the trims and individual model years of one model alone.

Because the bumper cam has not been used for FSD on the vehicles that have it

I hope that this camera can be added to the legacy Model Y!

That has panel gaps the size of my middle finger.

Well people don't get Tesla's for the interior build quality either.

I’d take a Tesla 10 times before I take a lucid

The new front bumper camera isn’t used by the FSD system in any way (at least not yet).

it’s unclear when they started using the new computers but my guess is late 2024 to 2025 //: this was discovered by someone breaking into a tesla to find the computer being different

Will this be an upgrade for the Highland Model 3?

All the US ones have it. 2024 and newer. The EU/China ones dont have it pre-2024

In smart summon, I thought due to the missing front camera, it always need to "backup" few inches to see whats ahead from a parked position. Even the front camera is not used for FSD anytime soon, at least Tesla thinks adding the front camera is necessary. (They even cut cost for the rain sensor, so it must a necessity to add this camera which cost more than a rain sensor)

Where do they keep finding room for more speakers lmaoo

This is like apples “AI” it’s going to take a while to be fully implemented

Any word on third row option?

Exactly. I don’t make it a point to do a walk around before every drive. It’d definitely be a good habit but most don’t even think of doing it.

Plus they’re *way* more expensive.

no

To simply quote: # Front-Facing Cameras # Enhanced visibility for Autopilot and Actually Smart Summon capabilities. LMFAO. feel a backstab by tesla?

All HW4 Models have the port for the retrofit. As long as you have HW4 you have the port. My guess is they will have this retrofit available late fall once juniper sales continue through the spring/summer.

Yeah but aside from servicing and parts, they don't have to worry about upgradability and future software compatibility (i.e. different versions of FSD for different hardware configs).

Aka “Full Self Driving”

i dont think so … the reloaded computer is actually different from the original hw4 computer. in fact, tesla actually started listing the hw4 computer as “reloaded” now and replaced the original hw4 listing part- really interesting tho

Yea you’re right the “reloaded” computers are the new ones that they installed on HW4s this past fall when the updates were short circuiting the computers causing cameras to not work and screen. The HW4s do have the front camera port but they’re depopulated. Unlike the reloaded one that has the port but it’s populated. I can see them offering a retrofit though. They already offered the retrofit for suspension from 2021 models to 2023 and in china you can retrofit the ambient lighting on model Ys OEM.

sorry i think im being unnecessarily confusing ha but im aware the original hw4 computer has the camera port but the fact that its depopulated renders it moot bc they won’t be able to use it either way, hence the reason why reloaded has a functioning port. if someone does the camera retrofit (non reloaded) they are definitely going to swap the computer too. im jealous of china having the ambient lighting retrofit tho …

Hahah yea I guess we’re both right. Nonetheless I can only hope they offer an upgrade for the computer lol 🙏

agreed 😭

Did you even read my second paragraph? Use your brain a little.

Bit slow on the uptake. The front bumper camera was announced in the Australian press document in plain English.

it mentioned it as “new-front facing camera”. It didn’t specify if it was new as replacing old one, or new as adding to old ones, or that it was bumper one.

As I just said it was in the Australian press briefing. Written in plain English that it was a new camera in the bumper 🤦‍♂️ "A new front camera has been added under the front bumper, allowing drivers to better view the front of the vehicle when parking or performing low-speed manoeuvres. Additionally, the camera includes a self-cleaning function, which uses a water jet to keep the lens clean." Time stamp 5:03 https://youtu.be/LegePE9hb0Q?si=yDKzuOR62urTojOP

Including model 3?

I’ll still never buy another Tesla until there’s a leadership change.

Tesla should allow customization for precise generation to install front bumper camera

No model 3 is not included

I wonder if it’s camera is close enough tot he ground it’s less of an issue? Or maybe it’s just second priority ?

get a 3rd party one installed. Have had one installed for 5 years now and still works great.

Fingers crossed we can retrofit other vehicles with it. Would love one in my highland.

It might also hypothetically allow 360° visualized view for manual parking

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Is there one for the rear cam?

Doubt it since the reason for the washer on the front bumper camera is that since it's so low to the ground it is prone to getting dirty if u run into mud. The rear camera is really high off the ground and while it can possibly get dirty it only will happen if like rain is blowing in the direction of the trunk.

The quality of depth perception depends on the software. Today's software has some quality of depth perception, and tomorrow's software will be some amount better. Even today's is very good at this point though. Obviously having zero blind spots is good, but it isn't necessary for FSD. You must also consider the fact that every viewpoint costs additional inference compute, so if you're adding another viewpoint, that takes away compute from the others. That means adding a viewpoint might actually be a net negative for safety if it's not a very important viewpoint to have.

Or, you know, due to turbulent air behind that massive rear bumper. This is California design again, on a rainy winter day I need to clean my rear window about every 10 minutes in order to see anything out of it. Rear cameras are almost useless for about 6 months a year here. There's a reason some German brands hide them in a moving logo.

No

While everyone is talking about new Model Y version I would to say that India recently had their big cybertruck like launch by Mahindra called XEV 9E at a price point of USD 38000 that does everything Tesla does and has a width bigger than a cybertruck.

The bumper camera was also useless to me for that reason, itll be covered by bug guts every few minutes on a long highway roadtrip. In mild weather conditions, youll have snow or rain constantly being sprayed onto it from the cars in front of you.

this was confirmed about 6 months ago, but welcome to the party.

confirmed you mean rumors? Where hundreds of “confirmed” rumors turns out to be false?

not rumors, this was confirmed months ago, just like I said above, words matter.

do you have source?

Cameras are positioned in front of the rear view mirror.

This is how I know they were never serious about FSD before. They had glaring hardware gaps despite their bold claims. Speaking of glare I wonder if this will help with glare issues blinding the other cameras. Maybe they are finally actually trying to produce a FSD ready hardware suite.

I believe you have never been on a bike without a fender over the back wheel? Every time you have a wet road, the rear camera will get sprayed with road grime water being sprayed up by the tires and then picked up by the turbulent air behind the car. In winter where the roads are wet and dirty, the camera will get covered in grime even though its not raining. When its raining the camera will get continuously sprayed with water that is dripping off the camera lense, which distorts the picture making it barely usable. The primary reason why there is no washer at the back is cost and complexity. The front camera is located very close to the washer fluid. The rear camera would need a pipe running the entire length of the car, up the C-pillar and into the trunk. It also needs to accessible for maintenance, as there is fluid in the lines. That is a level of complexity and risk that Tesla doesn't what to do.

To me, that washer represents a huge quality of life upgrade. Constantly wiping my cameras clean in the winter.

nobody cares

It will be, IMO. The added benefit of redundancy from glare, the ability to vertically triangulate distance, and so on, will make this a key feature for vision only driving. I suspect this will be a requirement for increased autonomy at some point very soon. It would be great for existing owners if there is a retrofit for at least HW4 cars.

human eyes and brain are far more effective and better than the current cameras and chips. if FSD wants to achieve similar what human can drive, then it need either superior chips or cameras. the pure vision approach is already shown the pros and cons already. FSD drives worse at night and bad weather conditions. and it's simple to understand, if human cannot see or barely see, FSD is just getting much worse. having more cameras are necessary imo, unless there is a camera that can compete with human eyes with affordable price.