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From the article: The updated Tesla Model Y is reportedly going into production today at the company’s European factory in Germany. According to the German newspaper Handelsblatt, employees at Tesla’s Gigafactory Berlin facility were informed of the product launch yesterday, with assembly set to begin today, January 14. Tesla’s sole manufacturing facility in Europe only assembles the Model Y, which was once again the best-selling electric vehicle in the world last year. However, Tesla’s grip on the car world slipped slightly in 2024 when it saw global delivery numbers fall for the first time, despite posting record numbers in the last quarter. As the Model Y is the EV maker’s best-seller, it’s very important to start making the refreshed version as soon as possible and start deliveries. The car was unveiled in China–the only major market where Tesla saw its sales numbers go up last year. Customers in markets such as Australia and New Zealand can already order the facelifted electric crossover, with deliveries slated for May. It’s unclear when the first European units will be delivered. However, judging from what happened with the refreshed Model 3, we expect North America to be among the last markets where the updated Model Y will be available. The facelifted Tesla Model Y, nicknamed “Juniper,” has a redesigned front and rear and a slightly more refined interior. There’s a new infotainment screen for the rear passengers, and the suspension system has been revised for greater comfort. Furthermore, the gear selector stalk has been removed from the steering column, leaving just the blinker stalk. That’s different from the Cybertruck and refreshed Model 3, both of which don’t have any steering column stalks–instead, the controls have been moved on the steering wheel and central infotainment screen. Globally, Tesla delivered 1,789,226 vehicles last year, down 1% from the 1,808,581 EVs delivered in 2023. In 2023, Tesla shipped 38% more vehicles than in 2022.
There isn't enough change except cosmetic. It can also be argued the current model looks better than the refresh Will be interesting
They went from first most sold car in 2023 to …. Second most sold car in 2024 lol
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If it’s anything like the Highland, there are *many* small improvements that add to a big jump in refinement and feel.
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The dip is the dip lmao
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The only thing that will get me to upgrade is range
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Rear screen. Ventilated seats. Interior lighting. Better suspension and ride quality. Electric rear seats. Front bumper camera. That’s a lot to begin with and that’s just what we know so far. And as an owner of the current generation, I really like Juniper. A much more modern visual upgrade.
Overall driving comfort is a massive improvement and many has been anticipating the new model before making a purchase.
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It ill be cheaper to make.
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In Germany they dropped 41% from 2023, compared to the overall EV market which dropped by 27%. They are now only #3 in germany behind VW and BMW with less than 10% EV market share.
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Yea, I was referring to the entire world.
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But the Model Y specifically is still the most sold EV.
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Yeah, it's just a facelift, that's usually how facelifts work.
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They also lost market share in almost every market...
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Kinda weak for an upgrade. These are all things available on the f150, 15 years ago.
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At this point the number 1 need for teslas is ride quality and NVH which this upgrade addresses. Just because it’s not things you see doesn’t mean it’s not a massive upgrade
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Yes, almost 30k, with the Enyaq at 25k and the ID.4 at 21k in places 2 and 3. The refreshed Model 3 only sold 7k.
Was the Model 3 refresh just a facelift as well in your estimation?
I wonder if that’s because of the turn signal buttons. Germany has a lot of roundabouts and I certainly have advised people to not buy that thing.
Could be but sedans are generally not that popular in Germany. Most people would prefer a hatchback or a wagon over a sedan. And in the recent 5-10 years obviously the crossovers and SUVs. I think for VW Passat the numbers where 70% wagon vs. sedan. BMW X3 also sells more than the 3-series.
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In Europe it is mostly because Model 3 long range costs the same as Model Y long range. Even if you prefer sedans, you will certainly lose more value when you will eventually sell the car. Model Y just gets you more of a car for same price. If they ever start producing Model 3 locally and thus lower the prices, it will sell much better
Refresh == facelift, so yes
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50% new parts though. New glass, new suspension, new interior, new front, new back, I mean... it's a pretty different car.
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They only have 5 total models which helps boost individual model sales. How many do other companies have? Toyota has like 3 models in the top 5-10.
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That makes it even MORE impressive honestly.
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That’s surprising to me. I would have thought the country that makes all those famous sedans would buy up more of them.
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Is the model Y performance the only one built in Germany or are they starting to create the LR and SR models too?
If Toyota or other automakers could make a better car to streamline production and maximize profits, they would. But they can't they need to make a bunch of shitty cars.
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Model Y has had stalks all along.
Yeah, obviously, it's still the same generation. Just because the changes were more major than for some other facelifts, doesn't mean it's a new generation. Look at the G-Class for example - same generation from 1990 to 2018, even though the changes were massive.
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However the range is the same. The model 3 highland improved by 90km the range if I remember well
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https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/ https://fiatgroupworld.com/2024/06/16/the-worlds-top-500-best-selling-cars-in-2023/ https://www.jato.com/resources/media-and-press-releases/tesla-model-y-worlds-best-selling-car-2023 Uh huh
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Model 3 LR is €5000 cheaper than Model Y LR here in Germany.
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Exactly. Which is my theory of why the Model Y didn’t decline as much as the Model 3.
Looks like EPA range only improved by about 10 miles. The real world range test, however, was more like 48 miles. If we're looking at what the sticker says on the new Model Y before we know the real world range, I'd wager we're passing judgement prematurely. We don't know for sure the Juniper will have all the Highland improvements, but it's a pretty safe assumption. With that in mind, it's reasonable to assume the range will be markedly better.
I was fully expecting this to be a reference to Tomlin’s “the standard is the standard” and your profile all but confirms that.
LOL. Yeah, the G-Class is TOTALLY unchanged in those 28 years.
Teslas are much more reliable. We're seeing old ones going 500,000 miles on the original battery at times. How's their EV biz going?
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All 3 have been built in Germany for quite some time now or are you talking about the Juniper update?
The last quarter is all that matters. Sell one million in Q1, better sell one million plus in Q2. Or else. Growth at all costs.
If they really want to get out of the sales dip, they should up the trade in values for current Model Y owners. I'm sure there's a lot of us HW 3 owners that would upgrade if we weren't taking such a hit on trades. I for one would upgrade, but lease this time because between the depreciation rate and being already into the HW4 cycle buying isn't in the cards for me.
True
interesting. When did it change? In Slovakia the difference is 1000€ and last time I checked, it was the same in Germany, so it has to be recent change. Model Y all wheel drive is 42 990€ without vat in here and it was same in Germany recently. They seem to have raised the prices edit: in Austria, it’s just 2000€ difference and for performance version, Model Y is actually cheaper than Model 3
beneficial squash spark hospital gray include party wine upbeat oil *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*
What changes were you looking for that makes these not enough? It is an electric car, the powertrain is always going to be a slow evolution year by year as the tech improves.
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No it didn't.
That's because that's how you're defining generation. A lot of the time an 'all new' vehicle still has the same powertrain as before.
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Sales went down 1%.
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Well also the stock price is so insanely inflated it really can’t withstand sales slowdowns.
I agree, I think the model y is really good its just the ride quality, suspension and cabin noise that are areas of improvement. If the juniper addresses these then I'm sold, everything else is just a bonus. Though I'd honestly be surprised if there are still unannounced features beyond what we've already heard so far. More range would be the great equalizer that makes up for the lack of other features, a 400 mile range model y sounds amazing, maybe in 5-10 years. A 120v outlet would be my favorite feature but I doubt that will come to the model y or any other model beyond the cybertruck anytime soon
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When global market is growing that means they are losing market share
>wasting no time trying to get out of last year's sales dip Right, because an auto manufacturer is nimble enough to respond to a yearly sales number within just 14 days. This has been planned, regardless of the "sales dip".
Have you advised people to not buy it because you *know* its bad from experience, or do you *think* it is based on assumptions? I've had it for a few months now and I live in Denmark. I drive through countless roundabouts every day and I absolutely love buttons over stalks. Not having to reposition my hand to use stalks is, after I adapted to the change, much better. I see so many people arguing about the buttons, but those with the strongest opinions about them never really tried them or tried adapting to them.
I have tried to keep my hands on the scroll wheels of my current Model 3 during roundabouts to see if I could get used to buttons. It’s impossible. The wheel needs to be rotated >90°. Even if it was possible to keep the hands at the same position during those angles, it would be very unsafe compared to feeding the wheel as taught in driving school.
Chinese affiliated geely owned polestar? All hail the ccp.
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The US and European reliability statistics aren't that great for Tesla, guess primarily because a failing 12V battery left quite a few people stranded.
Seriously. In the same boat and the trade-in offer I got was an absolute joke. At least up it to the break-even point….
Wouldn't compare 12v battery to the cost of repairs of ICE engines, or replacement of EV battery packs. Consumer reports did a poll and found Tesla owners spend the least on repairs/maintenance over a 5 year period.
and you went from ignorance to hateful
That front end design is way too busy. It doesn't remind me of Tesla, it looks like a knock off or something.
People's biggest complaints about previous gen Model 3 and Y have been harsh ride and wind / road noise. The Model 3 refresh made massive improvements in those areas, so presumably Juniper will as well.
Articulate?
I remember them being far enough apart for a good while. Maybe the difference was smaller right when Highland was released because it was new and shiny.
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Long range for sure. My biggest regret was getting the standard range
Well it did in wltp standard
They want new customers not current customers. Most current Tesla owners stay with tesla. They want to expand
It’s not worth trying to reason with unreasonable people.
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Cool. Fire sale current gen Y at like, $99 Lease a month. I’d get one.
The title of the post just feels anti Tesla and click bait. A “dip” only existed because people like me were waiting for the newest trim to be released.
While net new customers are great, vehicle sales success is measured by volume, not net new customers.
I agree 100% with this. My only mistake was buying instead of leasing. My 23 MYLR was the first car i've actually bought in over 15 years and reinforced the fact that leasing is better (for me at least).
So you are guessing. It's fine if you have some reservations based on your guesswork, but you might want to not advise people on anything you do not actually know.
I am not guessing. I know for a fact that it is not possible to safely use the buttons while the wheel is turned >90°.
Just keep your eyes open and check from time to time. We had a happy surprise last year when we traded in our Model 3.
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I actually think the opposite. Once the average consumer is more knowledgeable about battery degradation I think the value of used EVs will stay more stable. Long term studies are showing somewhere around 85-90% range retained in a lot of these cars 10+ years in. I would have no problem buying a used EV with 250 miles of range instead of 270.
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While true, its partly becuase Tesla has so few options. They have 2 cars that can be afforded by... not even the average but slightly above average people.
That doesn’t at all explain why the Model Y is the most sold EV. If anything, this would be an argument *against* that. It only explains why Tesla as a whole has less marketshare.
It has a different shape as well, likely a higher efficiency which means less time charging for the same # of miles.
More like they are doing the most they can do reduce the osbourne effect. I predict the new model 2 (whatever we gonna call it) will be very similar. From event announcement to event to production will be 1 month. This release was very carefully planned and timed
100k miles no issues not even breaks
I disagree, if 100 people like Company A and 100 people like Company B. Company A has 10 options people could buy 10 of each and 100 sold. Company B has 2 options, people could buy 50 of each and 100 sold. Company B has best selling vehicles while each company sold the same amount.
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I think Tesla knew longer then 14 days that they woud have lower sales then 2023.
Best of luck Tesla Europe. SAIC, BYD and friends will be competing with you for European business.
How do you know that, they're not even for sale yet?
China sold 50.000 in 1 day. This is normally the amount they do in a month. So people are waiting
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# North America when??
Same here. I’ve tried with changing track on Spotify while having the wheel in any other position than straight forward and it’s nearly impossible to get it right. I don’t think I could ever get used to have buttons for the indicators.
No they didn't, some influencers said their sources said they had 50000 orders.
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That is correct. But if 100 people choose Company A’s two cars, even though this hypothetical market has 12 cars, it would make Company A’s cars objectively more popular/better, even if their marketshare is the same. It’s not like the measure is without value.
You have to understand that the stock has priced in revenue growth for many years to come. So to have sales drop at all is more of an issue for Tesla than for companies where nobody expects that.
Yeah they offered me like $4000 less than what Carvana was willing to pay which is just such a huge gap. Otherwise I would have traded for another car while I still qualified for the credit.
The only new feature I actually care for is the ventilated seats. Power folding seats aren’t a huge improvement in a car this size since it’s not hard to reach the latch to begin with, it matters more for monster SUVs where you can’t really reach the seats if you’re in the cargo area.
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I haven't followed it detailed, where is the gear change now? In the screen?
Automatic. Screen can be swiped up and down for manual gear change. Backup buttons are next to hazard lights
How soon will they debut the new models is what I wonder, along with what Tesla can do to earn back customers that will no longer consider Tesla because of Elon jumping into right wing politics. So many friends won't consider a Tesla now because of Elon.
Off a cliff. Gg
Huh ?
I personally think Tesla has the best Software and best cars, excluding the CT, but not the best comfort and finish. However I would not agree with you that 100 people choosing Tesla and 100 people choosing Hyundai means that Tesla is better because they have fewer models.
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Because it looks like a knock off of a bunch of other cars. The Light-Bar isn’t new. The Style isn’t new. Check Hyundai Kona or many different Chinese Cars.
Their PE is for growth. You don’t pay a premium on shares for decline. Especially a PE ratio of 100. Basic stuff.
How is that relevant. Market share still down. Profit down. Revenue down. EPS 0.34 Price per share 400 P/E 100+ This is a company that is priced to be exploding with growth. It’s crazy how defensive people are. It’s just a corporation. It’s not your family.
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That's actually not the issue at hand. The issue is that Teslas market capitalisation is reliant on future development. For that value proposition it is quite vital to have the expected growth. If they have instead of a growth a decline. The value proposition at what triple the size of any other car company comes into question. So even though it's just a small decline. Tesla's valuation is depending on there not being any decline.
Plenty of people have done fine with it, so this is clearly not an objective fact. This is subjective. And you can only have this strong of a feeling if you used, so you must have used it. But you said you didn't use it. At this point, I don't know what in the world you are doing. If you actually tried it and you do not like it, that's fine. Your opinion is legitimate for you, and that is ok. But you are claiming objective facts where you do not even have subjective experience, and I do not think that is ok.
between those and better range would take all day the better range.
Really? The range hasn’t even bothered me once yet. I’m absolutely happy with the Long Range. But I also live in Europe and practically only charge with solar at home.
yes really
What max range would you be happy with? And how many miles do you drive per day?
800km, not the 380 tesla is giving right now, i want to take a break when I WANT not when the car wants
and if your reply is the standard EV extremist : but you don't need that much, I'm fine with what it already has, is the best car in the world you don't need anything else just shut up, I had ICE and EV's and I know what I need, you don't
There’s no need to be insulting at all. I just wanted to know which range makes you happy. The Long Range can easily manage 500 km, so there’s not much left to reach your goal. I can’t imagine how long you have to be in the car every day to have such an expectation of range. That sounds very unfortunate.
They're not just a car company only.
> They’re like smartphones. After a couple years due to tech, it doesn’t make sense to buy a used one when the new ones are way better and with fresh batteries. Not a perfect analogy-- maybe smartphones from more than a decade ago, but now they're one of those things that there just isn't much reason to upgrade. Last phone made it seven years without any issue, current one is three and doesn't even need a new battery. But the broader point about resale with Teslas is certainly valid. Rather than worry about that, I'm just taking the "drive it until it dies" approach with the car, too.
Front-end looks like they just cut-and-pasted the front of the [XPeng P7+](https://insideevs.com/news/726127/xpeng-p7-lidar-new-reveal/). The new Y is a knockoff of a knockoff of the original Y... it's the circle of liiiiiiiiiife?
Yeah, I was really hoping for: 1. reduced weight 2. improved "fuel economy" 3. gear and signal stalks 4. physical interior handles for the rear doors 5. redesign to reduce repair costs Those are the big ones. There's a bunch of little stuff I'd like, but which wouldn't be enough to sway me on its own, including: 1. Rain sensor 2. Fold-flat front passenger seat for long loads 3. An opaque roof option 4. A boring, normal glovebox latch 5. No rattles I think of all the things I'm hoping for, we got like... half of one with the turn-signal stalk. And really, it's the efficiency and weight I most want to see improve... fingers crossed that maybe there is a slight efficiency improvement we just haven't seen yet.
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OP just had to mention “sales dip”. That was just us waiting for the new model Y trim.
Not really comparable. The scroll wheel is further towards the middle of the steering wheel than the buttons, meaning its way easier to press them with the wheel turned. Furthermore, the steering wheel of the old Model 3 has a bit of extrusion compared to the new. You *are* guessing.
Huh? Where exactly the buttons are horizontally doesn’t change anything about the fact that you can’t keep your hands on the same place of the wheel during a >90° turn at all unless you have hyperflexible wrists, which still wouldn’t be a safe way to hold the wheel.
> If they really want to get out of the sales dip Q3/24 was better than Q3/23. Q4/24 was the best ever. They *had* a sales dip in Q1-Q2/24, but got out already.
But it looks worse than the Chinese cars, it will sell badly.
Just cancelled my M3 lease for that very reason. I like the car, but Elon has completely lost it. He is downright dangerous.
In Denmark M3 sales increased significantly after the Highland introduction. People were (in general) not scarred away by the missing stalks. In fact they were attracted by the refreshed M3 because of its many improvements. While M3 sales increased very significantly, MY sales dropped, just to add some context.
Does anyone have, as a reference, the time between China builds start, Germany build start and America build start for M3 Highland? This feels faster, I don't have any dates to reference.
Nice but when do orders open in Europe
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When will we be able to order it in Europe?
Had a M3 and MS, and moving to Italy. Love the cars but Elon is giving me every reason to change brands. Unfortunately the competition don’t stack up! Looking to purchase the MY Juniper.
I believe technically it’s model 3 and y combined.
Model 3 and y sales are combined. So it doesn’t really matter.
No, otherwise it wouldn’t be listed separately. Model 3 is 20th place with 7k total sales in Germany 2024. Model Y is 1st with 30k total sales.
Does the 2019 model 3 still drive around and is it cheaper than a new? Then tech advances would be shallow reasons to buying new Transportation is a cars job, not entertainment. Is it outdated then?
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How? It drives around just like the ICE does
I completely agree… Image means everything in the States.. Choosing politics is never a good choice.
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Can you show me - it is not around here.
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