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Ah yes, more fully autonomous driving that's not fully autonomous and may never be safe enough to be deployed as fully autonomous driving. If not this year, insert next year, then next year, then next year, then next year, then next year...
We’ll get there. They are building a car without a steering wheel for Christ sake.
My 2023 Tesla is now considered a legacy product and is EOL with regards to FSD God damn it.
Sleep tight HW3 😭
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I almost just paid the $2k eap > fsd, primarily for hardware upgrades in my 18 3 lr awd. Whew. Been more than awesome for 6.5 years without it
Yep. Every time I get an FSD trial with my 21 MYP I start to think about upgrading. But then the trial ends and I go back to my blissful ignorance.
Well, not with that attitude.
Well I guess that is great but not a substitute for missing Car2Car.
Next year I’m told. But if not then the year after that. Also the hardware will do it with audio only, no cameras. Just the force.
Yes.. it is nausea inducing
They announced they'll give HW4 retrofits if they must recently. With how big the gap is getting between HW3 to HW4 seems inevitable to me at least
That’s only if you paid the full FSD price up front.
If you don’t have FSD then you’re on a version of Autopilot that is emulating HW2 - we haven’t even had the chance to use the full extent of the hardware in our cars yet.
True, I did which at least gives me peace of mind. Just gotta be patient. Could be a year or 2 who knows
I see absolutely no way this can be abused.
close repeat workable oil alleged fuzzy engine fly bake live *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*
So then why would it matter?
Which alot of us did
That’s definitely worth it, not only would you get FSD, but you’d also go from HW 2.5 to HW 3, which includes several improvements, including cross traffic emergency braking and others.
Which was $10,000, not todays $6,000 That extra $4,000 should easily cover the ”free” upgrade cost
Teslas have never been autonomous. Not even partially.
I start by thinking that maybe I’ll buy it, then after a couple weeks of testing out, I’m confident I don’t need it.
If they don’t, why would I ever buy another? I paid more for my car, and more for FSD. If they don’t support the latest advancements in FSD even with a physical upgrades required I’ll never buy anything from them again.
I’m sure they’ll offer paid upgrades for subscribers
Same sir. Same
Do you mean all the naysayers who think there’s no progress being made when there obviously is? All the impatient people who are just losing their cools, and therefore think cars can never drive themselves because of their emotions? I see a hard problem, taking a long time to solve, and a bunch of people who are just sick of waiting for it. On one hand, I understand they spent a lot of money on FSD, on the other hand, you also knew it wasn’t a complete product when you spent it! If you put so much stock in Elon‘s timeline estimation, that’s just foolish. They’re in uncharted territory.
Try 15,000
Not the point especially for 2023 model cars that were bought in q1/q2 2023 under threat of the tax incentives going away
I haven’t been paying close attention. Is hw3 actually FSD capable? Unsupervised?
$2000 for me. I already got the HW3 upgrade once. Holding on to get another upgrade.
Why not just use haas? Didn’t they announce they were going to be using it
Where does Tesla say v13 is only coming to HW4? The article says it as if it’s known truth but doesn’t link to their source.
It wasn’t $10k when it came out in 2018. I paid $2500 for mine.
This tweet is the source: https://x.com/Tesla_AI/status/1851911795381805367
Mercedes has level 3. You don’t need to watch the road. That’s more advanced than FSD.
My 2019 M3 almost T-boned a school bus when I did the recent free trial. So, I’d say no.
It was never $2000 without being subsidized by first buying another package
They need to come up with a retrofit to have HW4 use HW3 cameras…
Nope. Elon has previously stated that hardware three is not upgradable to HW4. His most recent statement, was that it would be upgraded. He did NOT state that it would be upgraded to HW4.
Incorrect. That’s the problem with the SAE levels. People like yourself just assuming the higher level, is better than the lower level. Mercedes level three, is extremely close to useless. Tesla level two is unbelievably useful, and I can never own another car without equivalent or better functionality.
insane reporting, this does not imply whatsoever that HW3 will never receive V13
It would likely be a new form factor of HW4 that can retrofit HW3. Compute should roughly be the same since the disparity is what's hindering development in the first place
Over the past year I’ve driven a lot of rental cars for work. Tesla basic autopilot is really falling behind the smart cruise control other new cars have.
does this confirm free upgrades to HW4 then? /s
I just wish we'd split the concerns highway and city more. We talk about self driving cars like it's binary, but bog standard AP has handled highways well for years now. If we got to a point where a conscious licensed driver could use their phone on the highway, that would be a big step forward IMO. It's kinda silly to me to make us all paid rapt attention in all situations until these cars can drive with no drivers in Manhattan in a snow storm.
I have a 2016 S with it. Works great.
So you’re complaining of common sales tactics such as “limited availability”?
I am complaining about the fact that FSD was not immediately available for q1 Tesla vision cars with hw3 and then it’s now less and less supported if at all and I paid 15k for the feature set. I am complaining that they immediately didn’t correct this issue when they switched over to hw4
Ok but how does “threat of tax incentives” fit into your last comment? If you’re just rambling because you want to complain and feel your feels, that’s totally fine, but I’m curious how that part fits in.
Because they knew they were going to be replacing the hw in a couple months and they fostered fear of losing the tax incentives to dump their existing inventory of hw3
HW4 is different cameras as well. It will not be an AI4 chip. That draws too much power. They would need a lower powered chip. It may be a low power version of an AI5 chip, for example. The point is, we do not know.
Says who?
And their car is much more capable than just basic autopilot.
$12,000 here
As someone who paid for FSD on a '19 - I will 100% join a class action against Tesla. Upgrade my car or refund my money. This is unacceptable.
Or, you know, like just upgrade everything for the people who paid for FSD and can't actually use the latest one.
3 > 2. When FSD gets into a crash it’s your fault. That’s the diff between real self driving and level 2 which is the same cruise control.
For FSD who cares. They are still years out for unsupervised FSD. I would be more unhappy with a Intel CPU over the AMD CPU. They are still using the AMD CPU that came sometime in 2022. FSD is nice and all but it still has issues that need to be fixed before it truly be worth the cost.
Most on this sub believe it will be a HW3.5 computer upgrade and they'll offer this within the next 3 years. It's mostly the compute restraint, not the cameras.
NO
Correct, the reporting is not accurate.
k but the mercedes system is locked to only specific roads and only up to 40mph. That's pointless. Try again.
The roadmap explicitly mentions features relying on HW4 many times and does not mention HW3 at all. Sounds pretty clear to me.
And Tesla can't do self driving on any road.
Did folks listen to the shareholder call? They said they will be focusing on HW4 for a bit and then back port what they can to HW3. Also Elon casually said if they can’t achieve FSD Unspervised in HW3, they would look into some form of retrofits. But color me doubtful haha.
It’s interesting to me that they’re going to focus on emergency vehicle recognition and start recognizing audio when I MIGHT encounter one a week. Conversely, I drive through school zones and busses nearly every day for 9 months out of the year and FSD(s) doesn’t appear to reliably react to either of those.
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Ya don't sweat it. Soon hw4 will be obsolete and everyone will be holding a bag of old tech
Right - which is why it’s disingenuous to say they got it for $2K, when there is clearly no way to get FSD for just $2K
So you can watch a movie or browse the internet? Its not self driving, its like cruise control, you still need to watch the road and take control at any time. If it crashes, its your fault.
Early HW3 cars likely will never have this capability since they didn't even include an exterior speaker.
This needs to be higher. People are losing their minds
This isnt true. The roadmap says "we will be deploying FSD 13 to HW4 vehicles in november" , it says nothing about after November. Remember, FSD 12.5 came to HW4 vehicles first also.
I think the higher frame rate will help with that
They said not that long ago that if FSD required >HW3 then they will upgrade all HW3 owners for free
I paid $2,00 for Autopilot and $3,00 to tack on FSD in 2019 on my 2018 Model 3. I had my hardware upgraded for free and I’ve been happy to have access to FSD since early in its roll out. The improvement from where it was initially to now is incredible. I use it almost daily. Sure, I need to nudge it along periodically with the accelerator but that’s about it. I never experience phantom braking like half of Reddit does nor do I have to swerve intensely to avoid curbs. I’m happy with my purchase and if I get another free upgrade, that’s great. If not, I’m still happy with what I have. Just my anecdotal experience since it is almost always people complaining and shitting on FSD.
So far the only thing about the Intel that's bothered me is no Zoom support. Would have been handy a couple of times.
"If you believe Elon when he speaks, you're a fool" Spot fucking on on that one, I'm sick of that lying little fucking weasel. Thinking about getting rid of my Tesla lest people think I like this idiot.
Well if you didn’t then why do you care if your car isn’t getting the updates.
You mean mic? I don’t think any Tesla has an external mic
Serious question, has anyone started a class action lawsuit yet for those of us who purchased FSD back in 2018/2019 when they made all of those wild promises? It’s starting to look necessary if HW3 is never going to get to the point where we can just take our hands off and let it do its thing in most situations
Go troll somewhere else. High density traffic, certain mapped freeway sections, under 40mph, good weather - and to my knowledge at this point, only in Germany. It's been approved for use in CA and NV, but I do not know of any vehicles with DrivePilot running in the US by a non-Mercedes employee/tester. I would love for you to show me one if they are out there. Also, you can't use your phone, only the center screen.
Can't you still buy FSD and get the upgraded hardware as a part of it?
You are correct, I already had eap for a few years before I took the offer to get fsd for an additional $2k.
There will probably be something CALLED v13 on AI3 vehicles, eventually. But it will probably be more like 12.6 in reality, missing a most of the features/upgrades that Tesla explicitly states are coming to AI4 in its tweet. I think Tesla realizes that, for both cameras and compute, truly unsupervised "robotaxi" driving is not possible on AI3 and they're doing everything they can not to to directly say it.
Didn’t 2016 S have hw 2? You went 2 to 3?
There’s no way they’d ever give retrofits to HW3 owners who didn’t pay for FSD, which is reasonable imo. Same with 4 if it winds up needing one. The monthly subscription is another story, in that case it’d probably only matter if someone subscribed after HW3 was deemed “not good enough”.
What lies are you referring to? FSD estimations? They were ESTIMATIONS. Do you just not like his politics? I don’t think he’s perfect, but all the vitriolic hatred and negativity, in the TESLA SUBREDDIT, is kind of annoying and getting ridiculous.
Yeah they need to spend some actual effort getting that updated. Shouldn’t be any hardware constraints for that though.
Exactly, the question really is will HW4 owners get HW5
We don’t know yet. Articles like the OP are reading *way* too much into Tesla’s tweet — just because it doesn’t explicitly mention HW3 doesn’t mean the updates aren’t coming to it soon after. Frankly I think the schedule for HW4 is way overly ambitious to begin with. It makes sense their focus is not on anything outside of HW4 for the moment.
It’s using the internal mic for this apparently. I hate when the music I’m listening to has police sirens. Now it’ll be even worse, besides myself shitting a brick the car will too, lol.
Yeah it was remarkable that Elon finally *allowed for the possibility* of HW3 not making it, but that’s still a far cry from HW3 being out of the picture.
The title is itself abuse already.
Not buying FSD was the real loss mate
> they fostered fear of losing the tax incentives to dump So you are indeed mad about a classic sales tactic, got it.
Just looked up the Mercedes stuff. It's trash. Limited to under 40 mph is makes it pretty worthless as most of us use freeways.
Tesla can't self drive at any speed.
Finally Elon has also said that he would upgrade HW3 cars if HW4 can do unsupervised FSD but HW3 cannot.
Yes. And will HW3 owners who bought FSD get the upgrade to AI5. Sounds like we will, if AI5 can do unsupervised FSD but lower hardware versions cannot.
$100 bet that HW4 cannot do unsupervised FSD either.
Incorrect. It self drives most trips.
Crazy if Tesla retrofits all cars to hw5. They will for sure be losing tons of money on every single car if they are forced to do so. I can’t imagine it’s in Tesla’s best interest to ever upgrade a computer inside a car again. Likely will hurt the stock dramatically.
I agree. They've already said that they have to take extra steps for HW3, so it'll take longer.
I use FSD to get to work and back, a 70 miles round trip without doing anything.
According to Tesla it doesn’t self drive. “The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.”
Yeah, I believe so, mine was a late model 2016 so it was the first refreshed S. They upgraded that and the cameras for free since the vehicle was purchased as full self drive.
Well that's the real elephant in the room. They're not doing any upgrades from HW3 until they get unsupervised running on SOMETHING and then convince themselves there's no way to streamline it enough to get it to run on "old" hardware. "old" hardware might include HW4, who knows.
While from a legal/semantic point of view you are right, as a practical matter I can get in my Tesla, go 200 miles down the freeway with my head pointing vaguely towards the road and it just does it. At 85mph. Whereas the Mercedes can't do that one thing I need it to do. So while admittedly it would be nice if I could, say, hold a candy bar without it thinking it was a device and start nagging me, it's still darn useful especially because I have to start before sunrise and I'm usually pretty sleepy and the car realistically is driving better than I would (this is not a hypothetical, this is a drive I do once a month).
Like 1/1000 people on Reddit actually listen to the words from earnings calls. They just rely on 5th hand anecdotes and article headlines from Forbes.
Why would you assume it's "never going to get to the point" when it is still constantly being updated?
Pretty hard to reach any other conclusion about this particular build: it is being trained from higher res and higher frequency HW4 cameras. To quote: >- 36 Hz, full-resolution AI4 video inputs >- Native AI4 inputs and neural network architectures They might eventually be able to make a different HW3 V13 with the things they learned on HW4 v13, but the thing that they are building now? That is never gonna come to HW3.
They only have to do it for the cars that brought the 15k/8k option. The uptake was never that high.
Is it? Basic autopilot is adaptive cruise control and lane centring, right? What do other cars smart cruise control have?
Upon reading it, all it says is that there are new AI4 specific improvements as part of v13, but there is no where that says there isn't v13 for HW3. It even mentions HW3 specific improvements.
Why not cars that bought the 5k or 6k or 7k packages?
Nothing has been confirmed in anyway until it actually occurs but what we know from historical precedent is: People who bought FSD upfront got the hardware upgrade for free. HW2.5 to HW3 upgrade cost was $1000 for subscribers. I suspect it will be similar for HW3-4 (maybe more maybe less but thats the basis point).
But that doesn’t mean HW3 will never get a V13, as the headline directly states.
Ya, we really need emergency vehicles to broadcast telemetry data when their lights or sirens are on. Then nearby autonomous vehicles know where they are and where they're going so that they can get out of their way appropriately. Otherwise, people will install a sirens under their cars and all the autonomous vehicles will clear a path for them. Or something like [HAAS Alert](https://www.haasalert.com/).
It self drives many trips. If the human is not touching the controls, what exactly do you think is driving the vehicle?
It’s a good thing emergency vehicles always use sirens /s
I bought the $5k version and soon it will drive me to and from work without any interventions.
I'd take that, as with everything Elon says, with a heaping dose of salt (I'm a HW3 M3 owner, and would like to believe it, but he's said before offering an upgrade wouldn't be cost effective).
if he allowed it, that means his engineers already ruled out that option, he is just warming to it
yes. But only after unsupervised FSD is achieved on HW4
Resale value
I’d say there’s lots of things besides hw3 that are lowering your resale vs a 2024 with hw4, but it’s certainly a contributor.
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If you want to call it that then. Yes. I am. Glad you understand.
How? It simply doesn't understand those signs. High frame rate isn't going to change that.
So definitely not in the lifetime of a HW3 car
They may but it's gonna be years I'm sure. They need to at the least come up with an adapter because the geniuses at Tesla didn't didn't bother to design HW4 as a retrofit. If I recall correctly HW4 requires more power than HW3 can deliver as well, so you basically need a custom chip. Maybe they will make a HW5 varient for legacy cars but again thats years from now.
Not as constantly as the HW4 cars
Agreed. If I slept everytime I engaged FSD in the highway I'd still be alive.
It only lists the release date for v13 on HW4, nowhere does it say that HW3 isn’t getting it. Terrible reporting.
It only lists the release date for v13 on HW4, nowhere does it say that HW3 isn’t getting it. HW4 got 12.5 first as well, then HW3 got it. Terrible reporting.
this is a really good call out, tbh.. ambulances often will not use their siren after picking up a patient, on their way to the hospital. i'm sure there's a myriad of reasons to use and also not use both lights and sirens for emergency vehicles.
Yeah, all based on 1 hacker that has a chip on his shoulder against Tesla, perpetuated by a bunch of people who don't understand the difference between swapping an inference computer vs. replacing every single camera and connection across the entire vehicle. 1 guy says, "doesn't look like it can be upgraded without replacing the camera harnesses", the internet takes that as "HW3 can't be upgraded to HW4" as fact, and then ignores the part where Elon says they'd \*easily\* be able to upgrade \*the inference computer\* without needing to change the cameras at all. Nuance is dead, IMO.
It's clickbait bullshit that plays into these forums' biases, tbh.
I hate misinformation because it causes knee-jerk responses like this. Your car isn't EoL at all.
Why does it mean that?
He said the inference computer can easily be upgraded between HW3 and HW4, and that the cameras and camera harnesses wouldn't need upgraded. That's it. Simple as that.
Yeah, but they \*just said\* on the earnings call that the inference computer was the limiting factor and that they didn't need to swap HW3 cameras to HW4 cameras. All they would do (again, this whole thing is hypothetical) is swap the HW3 computer for the HW4 computer, leaving the cameras alone.
No one "needs it" besides maybe someone that's paralyzed or gets panic attacks or seizures. But it sure it nice to have once you get past the "it needs to drive exactly like I do or I freak out" stage.
First time on Tesla Reddit? This happens \*all the time\*. I actually stopped using Reddit because it was becoming a de facto standard on every post to see arguments surrounding literal misinformation.
So? Why wouldn’t they develop on the latest hardware? Would you rather they stayed at hw3 indefinitely?
I mean, they sold HW3 cars to people specifically with the promise that1 they would be FSD capable. They could easily face a lawsuit if they promised FSD for people with HW3 and never followed through.
They need to pick a “package size” or module size for each camera position, its local controller, the computers and hookups. So we can pick out old tech and upgrade it. Changing the camera design and size is going to be an issue. At least make it adapter-able to older vehicles. This is going to be a bigger issue moving forward. They infotainment systems in vehicles have been needing replace ability for years.
I've noticed when it comes to blinking yellow lights, the display shows them switching between red and yellow - it's basically making a prediction because of processing window length. A higher frame-rate could alter the window-length in such a way where it can handle "blinking" lights better. At least, that's my speculation. I could be wrong. I just can't think of anything else you'd get from a 50% increase in input framte-rate that is relevant to driving - I guess speed change sensitivity?
Having owned it for as long as I have, I’ve got to agree with you. Though Elon did promise us that it’d work soon, and also be an appreciating asset. Can’t wait!
Yes but the exact HW4 computer doesn’t fit. It needs something in the HW3 form factor
An intervention free drive isn't that far fetched - it can happen today. Just depends on the specific route and traffic conditions.
I guess my point is the updates for HW3 are slowing down. I certainly wouldn't say updates are constant. Getting 12.4 was nice and things were looking better but now I see no indication we'll get anything beyond 12.4 anytime soon. I hope I'm wrong.
True
Probably improved latency. 18hz would have information thats >20ms older than a 36hz system,for example (not sure of the actual current rate). For school zones it needs to be either map data + yellow light (doesn't really need to know its flashing, falsely perceiving solid or flashing both would mean reduced speed) or sign recognition + yellow light along with recognizing the "end" sign. Also Im pretty sure school zone lights are 1hz, so I doubt update frequency is an issue here. The visual display is probably just inaccurate, as we see with a ton of other stuff (ie trains). Anecdotally FSD at its current update frequency is very capable of recognizing flashing yellow lights as we all I'm sure have experienced with the phantom breaking they can cause.
Its not a big deal IF they maintain and upgrade path. The minute they can no longer upgrade comes a lawsuit.
See I think the phandom breaking is due to it getting confused / "thinking" it will go red. but you could be right. I'm probably just hopeful. This is one of the few remaining "features" that they need to add, pretty soon it will just be about reducing error rate, which presumably can be done with more data
"Doesn't fit" or "can never be made to fit"? They're an engineering company after all... if the boss says it needs to be done, they'll do it. Remember, this is the same guy that said "we'll just catch the skyscraper-sized rocket with chopsticks mid air" and then actually pulled it off. I don't think a slight form factor change is going to be their undoing.
well, not in your ownership time, but maybe an owner or two later
If people want to do that they can do it now.
They did retrofits from I think hw2 to 3 for about 1k... Not sure what you on about
Anything that “forces” a vehicle to pull over, whether to clear a lane for emergency responders or to remove the possibility of a car chase (I’ve seen the idea framed both ways) is going to need some incredible security and verification measures on it. Any tech rolled out to do that will be immediately scoured for exploits. While we can all imagine how nice it would be if traffic parted like the Red Sea so we can get to work, being the car parted so some selfish prick can cruise past traffic sounds hellish
Die shrinkage on ai5 will probably have a smaller form factor board with lower thermals so might fit hardware 3 space.
Sounds like you’re 1/1000 - so pls share your thoughts!
That's a good point, it very well could be that, but I don't think increasing cycle speed will change that, they just need to train it to differentiate flashing yellows from traffic yellows.
November 2030?
And the YouTubers
The 1k was only for subscribers I believe, if you owned it it was free
“Elon said…” is all you had to mention.
Thought full self driving would render me as a passenger not being required to react to normal road behavior such as emergency vehicles passing or parked.. but I guess I don’t understand what FSD is anymore
Yeah, but I think that’s why they’re leaning into this “FSD (Supervised)” thing… makes me feel like they could argue that we got what we paid for.
What microphone are they using?
It doesn't need to drive exactly like I do. It needs to stop driving like a drunk uncle that forgot their glasses.
Because it’s obvious with hardware 5 coming they realize the AI models they need to run are getting massive and will outgrow both hardware 3 and hardware 4 computers
I heard the earnings call and this is not the way. Retrofitting will not take into account the old hardware and cameras. Additionally on the earnings call they admitted that they are running FSD on HW3 in emulation mode. It’s another Intel and Apple Rosetta issue waiting to happen. The only real solution is to port FSD to new Teslas upon sale for people upgrading their cars. I for one want to get a model Y but I’m waiting for HD Sono before upgrading.
Na just felt like calling it out this time. Reddit used to have good speculation discussions but it’s completely overwhelmed by people complaining about not having the latest software update or their vehicles being “obsolete”. Honestly most companies wouldn’t be sharing their development with the community. Software is tough and we should be grateful for our involvement. Yes things miss deadlines but what does complaining so much really accomplish? It’s hard to filter out the quality and I think most the good commenters like yourself are probably just passing on the discussion.
Are you saying the existence of HW5 is the proof? I hope not, because that’s a ridiculous notion.
We don’t know it would be the HW4 computer. That’s the point. It might be AI5, or something else.
No he didn’t. He never said HW4.
The tweet speaks about "what comes next" and means with "next" *targeted for early next week*. Tesla is also working on things that won't ship next week.
No I doubt that, they've delivered more than enough to make that a hard sell. Saying that, the large upfront cost of fsd means they should be able to absorb any retro fit cost
the existance of hw5 doesn't mean lower ones cant do it
That’s already the case with sirens and very few people exploit it because it’s a great way to get arrested in a hurry.
Look at what Apple just did by moving every computer to 16gb of ram just to run tiny models for Apple Intelligence. Tesla will never be able to fit the full self driving models into hw3 and likely not into hw4 either.
What would they “upgrade” HW3 to, then? They’re not gonna “upgrade” it to HW2 lol Like, sure, maybe they’ll swap the inference computer to some newer design, but that’s kinda irrelevant. Point is: inference computer swap is 100% on the table.
In the grand scheme of things, what matters is that the inference computer can be upgraded. Whether it’s HW4’s chip or another chip is kinda irrelevant.
Easiest solution is make fsd account bound. I think many people will be ok with that.
Got a suprise for you: They removed the redundancy of HW3 a while back to increase computing power to be able to keep up with HW4. No legal body will give you level 3+ without redundancy. To say it in the words of a famous medic: He is dead, Jim!
I wouldn’t. That would be good for Tesla. It would not be good for consumers. In the situation we are talking about, you’re saying it would be tied to accounts, so if you bought a car that was promised to have FSD capability, and Tesla never fulfilled that promise, it would be OK because you could just buy a new car? In what world is that fair to the consumer? What about people like me who were swindled into paying $10k for FSD, quickly realized it wasn’t worth the money at all, and would never buy a Tesla again? Ideally for me the FSD is tied to my car so at least I could get a little more resale value. I guess if it was tied to my account and I could sell my account or transfer the FSD rights to another account then that would be fine too.
Which is fine (I listened to the shareholder call too). What kind of sucks is 1) I got my first what could be called maintenance update today so that reality hurts…knowing that hw3 might be EOL. 2) for me the worst part is the lack of info/ambiguity of proposed remedy. It seems like v13 might be the breaking point if they can’t downscale it for adequate HW3 performance. The last few releases for FSD on HW3 are really quite atrocious. Some others think that a HW3 v13 could be coming by Christmas but if it’s out by Valentine’s Day IF AT ALL, I’d be surprised. At this rate I think we’ll see AI5 be out before they tell us AI5 retrofits for HW3 fsd purchasers is available. Oh well. For reference I was impatient with my MXP delivery (no real news out yet about when hw4 was coming) and it turns out I’m one of the last vin batches before the switchover so extra ouch.
I somehow sold my 2021 hw3 model3 sr+ for 22k two months ago but I highly doubt it commands that price now Edit it was $22k
Wow. Congratulations haha. If I could get that I wouldn’t be upside down and probably in a newer model.
I just started digging and based on private sale prices (in my area at least) you might just still be able to But with this news of hw3 and all the political nonsense I’m seriously concerned about the value of the 3 long term. Which is why we sold it tbh. Love the product, but not happy with the constant feeling of bait and switch, so we decided to leave for a while and come back later if things improve!
Current HW3 owners get shafted in any possible case. I would argue it would be better to tie FSD ownership to the account and not the car itself because then that way, you at least have a way to get it if you so desired, outside of promotional transfers which sketch me out because you have to take DELIVERY before some amount of time.
“Announced” No. The guy who just makes things up with zero obligation to follow through said something and you took it as a promise and repeated it as if it was a for sure thing.
Sure. Sure.
We don’t know. All we know is that he previously stated it can’t be upgraded to HW4. I Believe that chip uses too much power.
Super simple. Always say you are working on HW3 drag it for another 5-6 years by then HW3 cars are in the junkyard (the vast majority of them) offer some retrofits that would take another 3 years to go to market. No HW3 cars to retrofit. Problem solved. Lie thru omission By the time a lawsuit is filed AND settled there would be pretty much no cars to retrofit
I agree with you. I think that AI5 isn’t going to be sufficient for unmonitored FSD either. And I don’t think Elon will have to upgrade HW3 cars, because true FSD isn’t gonna happen with Tesla’s current vision only model.
Dude promises a lot of things deemed impossible. Timelines are def off by a lot as a result, but he almost always organizes a team appropriately to deliver. Countless examples at this point. Besides, like I said it makes sense they'll have to
The mentioned increased model size and context length seem like they'd be more relevant than the increased frame rate. Presumably any increase in training data would as well if it includes these scenarios.
I’m surprised the cameras don’t recognize emergency lights
They slapped the supervised label on it long after many people bought it, and even is late buyers bought a car we we explicitly told will drive itself someday. Elon told day one model 3 line waiters we won't care about the 35k version because robotaxi would be "making the payments for us anyway".
Also, frankly, it makes very little sense to upgrade 3 to 4 if 5 is coming either way and they have no idea how capable 4 is here anyway. Between that and the hand waving they can do basically indefinitely, I'm not counting on an upgrade. All they have to say is "we're working on optimizing for hw3, and making some good progress" and they can put us off years until there's only a handful left on the road that haven't transferred to a new car.
It’s a simple business decision. Will subscription revenue, training data, improved FSD-network effect generated by retrofitted HW3 models result in a net gain for the company? There you have it.
“…we were explicitly told will drive itself someday.” So where was this “explicit” language? Was it in your contract? Was it on the promotional materials?
Yes just a simple business decision with multiple vague variables. I can answer it right now: maybe not, but possibly yes!
cabin mic
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