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Heck, this is not only something for robotaxi. I could see people with FSD and no dedicated parking space at home or at work wanting this. The car could drive itself somewhere close by to charge while at night or while at work and you wouldn't have to hunt for a parking/charging space yourself. since that location could be somewhere outside the city (i.e. on cheap-ish land) I think a reasonable price for parking/charging could be found that is still profitable for Tesla.
Just because they file patents don't mean they're suddenly going to overcome the basic laws of physics and make wireless charging viable for EVs (when the tech for low voltage applications like phones aren't even that great)
There's been a load of demos for it already to show it's surprisingly efficient (on par with L2 charging) even at a bit of distance. I believe the bigger concerns are long-term/frequent use due to the heat generated, and the cost to install/maintain
Wireless EV charging is comparably efficient to wired, this isn't a phone or toothbrush charger. WiTri City claims up to 88-93% grid-to-battery efficiency, HeVo 91-95%, [SAE independently verified](https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/ev-charging/tesla-bets-76m-on-wireless-ev-charging-can-the-tech-go-mainstream) grid-to-battery efficiency at up to 94%.
Funny how you try to make it seem so insurmountable by declaring laws of physics prevent it. When you’re just wrong and it’s plenty efficient.
Seems like a very very small population of someone who wants to buy a car with FSD, doesn’t have parking at home, and is okay with the car just driving to random places at night to charge. That person should just get a robotaxi day to day or rent a car when needed. Also insurance asks”where do you keep your car” “idk some random lots overnight outside the city”.
Alright buddy, let's get the 4680 cells to their hyped up specs from the battery day presentation first before thinking that some mocked up presentation is going to be viable.
I hope this is reasonably close to 100% efficient or it’s just a massive waste of electricity. I think qi2 chargers approach 80% efficiency.
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You just have a Tesla hate boner. Why are you even here? I saw wireless charging from WiTricity at CES with my own eyes. The technology absolutely exists and is viable especially for L2 charging, even fast charging.
Devil in the details.
Car is still kept at home when not charging and if they need to drive everyday this works for a good group of people that have one without home charging or haven’t bought one because of home charging
80% is good enough trade off for me.
That's quite astonishing actually.
As an engineer, patents tend to relate to the work/research we are doing, but don’t always make it into shipped products. However if it’s multiple patents, that’s a sign that a lot of time and investment is going into something.
Yea its very green... I never got why we accept wireless chargers and claim to want to save on the environment at the same time. Apple does this too - I like wireless charging, but I know its a alot more loss due to the distance and heat.
So it’s not about overcoming the “basic laws of physics” then?
Wireless EV technology has advanced in recent years. I don't know what Tesla is looking into but I posted this a few months back on the general state of the tech: A few months ago, Oak Ridge National Lab hosted a webinar where they presented results from their testing on multi-phase inductive EV chargers. They saw 95% efficiency at DCFC level 3 speeds (100kW+). The system converts mains AC at 60Hz to DC, inverts it to AC at 84kHz, does the voodoo wireless bit, then rectifies the AC to DC for the battery. I believe the 95% accounts for losses during that whole charging process. I imagine a wired connection might always be better because it just needs a rectifier, but 95% is darn good. [Oak Ridge National Lab news release](https://www.ornl.gov/news/charging-commute)
IIRC Witricity previously stated coil-to-coil efficiency at something like 96-99% and a cursory search HeVo's average coil-to-coil is 97.5% at varying z air gap and xy misalignment following SAE requirements.
Pretty sure this is why they acquired wiferion a bit ago.
It’s Elon, he can announce anything and everything but delivery on these announcements can come from tomorrow to never.
My mind instantly pictured a ground platform that you roll up on like a giant charging pad? It could lift up and touch the bottom of the body. You could even set it to trickle charge and lift he car off the ground a few inches for long term storage.
How bout 93%?
DOE FTW
duh, if 80% is good enough then of course more than that is better.
I was joking. I know how numbers work ;)
But now you’re talking about Tesla effectively becoming owners of garages. It might be possible to eke out a profit but it’s a terrible business for a company that positions itself as a tech company. A Supercharger business works because Tesla is just building out and maintaining chargers on land they don’t need to own. It’s just marginal space with high turnover. The economics turn to shit if they have to own/lease and build out structures for other people to store their cars for hours or even days per session.
80% efficiency compared to how much power is going in? I thought wireless charged WAY slower than an actual wire, like 20-30% of the time? (that might not relate to efficiency tho)
The problem is it’s a terrible business. To get some reasonable economics, you likely need to store the car 30 minutes outside any metro. So that means when you need it, you have to schedule it 30 minutes in advance or more. And then it wouldn’t be guaranteed to arrive on time. So now it’s feeling dumb that you might have to wait an hour because your car is stuck in traffic getting to you. And you’re late for work or meeting your friends for the planned weekend trip. Not to mention that the Tesla has burned 30-60 minutes of driving range to get to you. This doesn’t include all the reasons why owning land and garages to store cars overnight is an awful business for Tesla. There was a San Francisco startup that tried this business. Even with millions in VC funding and charging money-burning prices for car storage, they couldn’t make it work. Many better ways to attack the problem: * P2P parking space rental * Monthly garage space rental * Fractional rental car ownership (like car timeshare)
Sometimes efficiency is not that important. For example charging a smartwatch does not need much electricity and getting better water resistance is worth the trade off. Also you gotta take into account the overall resources used not just the charging efficiency. If this gets people to drive electric then it is worth it in the end. Also there are handicapped people and I believe for many handling that stiff charging cable can be quite challenging or even impossible.
How does wireless charging save the environment? The power to do so has to come from someplace.
People talking about charging their car wireless. I don’t even have a lamp in my house that is wireless.
How can you say those two things in the same comment? Where does the heat come from if it's efficient?
by prefixing it with "I believe" 😉 Honestly the comment is going off of a vague memory and likely mix and matching older risks vs the current state of things. Anywhoo, [this makes it all sounds really quite plausible](https://www.evengineeringonline.com/new-sae-wireless-charging-standard-paves-way-for-mass-ev-adoption/)
I'm concerned about the lost power. If you have 95% efficiency at 100kw, it means that you are radiating your surroundings with 5kw. That’s like 5 microwave ovens.
Good point. If it's on the EVSE equipment side, it would probably need a water cooled loop like in the new superchargers to reject the heat elsewhere.
I’ve thought this would be better for a while. Just make a smart drive over non wireless charger
Wireless is inefficient for phones as it is at like 80%. 20% on a 50kwh charging session is a huge amount of wasted session
Before I bought a Tesla I swear I read an article about some kind of wireless charger that you can put in your garage and you just drive over it and your car will charge was that ever a thing?
Hopefully most of this is thermal losses within the electronics, but even 1% of electromagnetic leakage is a lot at that scale...
We know how to charge waterproof devices with wires, it's called pogo pins. Wireless had always been about convenience. 20% of waste is not acceptable for a car.
your lamp doesn't move around constantly, so wires are fine.
> and lift he car off the ground a few inches for long term storage. Why? Cars are plenty capable of being stored for long periods without being lifted up. Just sounds like a lot of extra strengthening required for both the vehicle and the lifting platform.
There was a break down of the cybertruck on YouTube and they mentioned something about a hardware in it that they have it future proofed for something like wireless charging in the future.
5kw is a lot of heat to deal with, so its safer for the people around but still an engineering challenge
Tesla owns/operates charging infrastructure. This would be no different. As I said: This can be on cheap land oustide the city and people would still pay near city parking rates for it because that's essentially what they get..
The cybertruck has an open orange port that's labeled 'inductive charging header' in the service manual \[where presumably a wireless charging pad, installed on the underside of the vehicle, would be plugged in\]
Edit, two of them The second person on the patent application left Tesla more than a year ago 😂 So I guess this is not "new" work, and something that has been going on for a while. It is typical and customary to include people who originally worked on a patent but subsequently left.
Gotta auto charge the auto taxi somehow
The regular charging process already produces similar amounts of heat, mixed across the vehicle and the charger.
I'm not sure what the reason is, my friend also does it and takes the wheels off for the winter on his performance cars.
Does all our patents are belong to you also apply to these?
> 20% of waste is not acceptable for a car. Apparently you’re not familiar with “The American Way.” I wish I was joking.
Latest iPhones wirelessly charge at 25 W on a 30 W brick which is 83.333% I believe. The most interesting part of wirelessly charging EVs for me is that the infrastructure can potentially be hidden from view. It would be great to see a world without gas stations and electric chargers everywhere. Now if we ever achieve L5 driving we could dramatically reduce the amount of parking lots and replace them with more nature in cities, or ya know maybe another McDonald’s
Filing patents usually means not having shit but having proven feasibility and either an intention of applying it or an intention to hinder competitors to use your approach. Never forget the fluid line heated and cooled seats and the laser windscreen wipers Tesla patented. Wont ever become relevant but were deemed feasible enough and probably cover quite a broad claim to block the fields for any competitor. I hold about 15 patents filed with various (previous) employers. None of them are actually super valuable but some obstruct certain specific tech for competitors. Others are actually smaller aspects of products in use. Either way I get paid regularly by said companies for having filed an invention report and got some of the ideas through to a granted patent.
Such a terrible idea 20% minimum extra cost for same delivered power, minimum 20% extra load on grid and associated emissions & slower to charge. Takes less than 10 seconds to plug in. For human unattended charging just use a robotic arm to plug cable in. Wireless charging for high energy demand devices is unbelievably stupid.
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