Should they refund people who bought FSD? Yes. Will they???
Meanwhile the University of Tokyo is testing a Level 4 self-driving bus now… https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2026/01/14/japan/society/autonomous-driving-bus-kashiwa/
>As previously mentioned, moving to a subscription-only model kills the promise. Tesla owners who subscribe to FSD are paying for what they get that month: a level 2 driver assistance system and they can’t really complaint or sue Tesla for FSD not being what they paid: unsupserivsed self-driving. Tesla is still liable for having sold this promise to previous owners, but at least, it is not actively adding to this liability pool. It could also help Tesla bring in a bit more cash this quarter, which is expected to be rough for Tesla as it lost many subsidies.
>This is the final nail in the coffin for the “appreciating asset” narrative. Nah. There's still the lawsuit for the fraud.
Probably very few people were paying for FSD full price so now they want to target the people who would pay $100 for trying it (and maybe forget they are paying for that).
In my view, every single customer who bought FSD the last 6 years has been scammed.
Big move? Sounds like a last try to sell a technology that is still not working as it should….
Something that runs on local hardware running local software shouldn't be a subscription. It doesn't make sense
Golly I hope things work out for the best...
I had a colleague who bought the first model 3 revision there was, 1.5 year later they bought back the car for almost full, because the promise of FSD couldn't be held on that car... Seems they completely skipped that practice
Like when they claimed having Lidar data would be bad because too much data is a bad thing 😂
I don’t see why you would ever want to get rid of the one time price. Maybe they think people will buy new cars every two years if they don’t pay thousands for FSD?
Fred’s trajectory from boot licking sycophant to healthy critic needs to be studied and the methods replicated for all blinded followers of personality cults.
It’s big because… …they never released a full self driving feature?
Fraud lawsuit is pending thus the deflection
should all ask for refund subito
there is always any narrative that fits for that moment.
I paid $10k in 2018. Sold the car in around 2020 having never used it.
Will previous customers receive same upgrades as subscription model customers?
"But you have to feel for the people who paid $15,000 for this package in 2022. They paid the equivalent of 12 years of subscriptions for a product that is still arguably in beta." Ummmm, no, I really don't have to feel for them. They had at least 5 years of completely failed promises by that time and IIRC 2022 was close to peak FSD fail video on YouTube time so these people were simply proving the adage "a fool and his money are soon parted".
Renting rather than buying vaporware? #enshittification Are they going to try to sell subscriptions to heated seats too? That well really well when BMW tried it.
It is when the processor is equivalent to 2-3 iPhones taped together. In the case of HW3, less than one iPhone Pro.
They were scammed. They paid for something called \*full\* self driving which means it should be capable of driving the car without any need for superivision at all.
Could also be another marketing scam from Elon. Give a month for people to buy it (few are buying as is), close the books. Reopen or discount it the next time they need to try to juice short term sales. The Disney VHS sales model.
I know of someone who hasn’t updated their car in years because of FSD….
I think it plays iinto Enron's pay package where he needs a certain number of subscriptions to get those fat bonuses. Not sure how he'll get 10M when the company has yet to even sell that many cars.
Sry for your loss, false advertising should be punished.
Not trying to defend BMW here but it was either subscribe or purchase. It’s not like they made you purchase heated seats and then charged you subscription to use it.
True, and when BMW tried it with heated seats, it backfired on them. Consumers should all be pushing back against this new trend of "you'll own nothing, and like it!". I can see charging a nominal fee for features that require maintaining some ongoing backend infrastructure but never for feature inherent to the product already. \#enshittification
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Hopefully previous customers will receive fat settlements when the lawsuits hit.
Yeah but the point was the heater was already in the car whether someone bought it or not. I hope someone figured out a hack for it.
And every investor has been lied to.
kind of irks me that it's a lot safer to use while driving on the highway (in most cases) but I have to pay for it... feels like gatekeeping safety
Is this a term that non-musical, non-Italian people know? I just learned this term the other day for my piano, and I’m shocked to see it used in a sentence.
I agree. It was a shitty practice.
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Im keeping it just so i can sue them for the fsd scam
Same here, although not quite as bad - I paid $5k for what was then called Autopilot (later called enhanced autopilot), and got FSD for $3500, but never activated it before I sold. I miss the hell out of autopilot, even with occasional phantom braking.
The people before that paid nearly that and now have been told their cars will never actually be able to use FSD despite having paid for it all up front.
Any idea how this applies to Europe and the EAP + FSD packages?
It was obvious since the product was a beta and not even in beta stages
Am I the only one who can't believe they picked Feb 14 to stop selling it over April 20?
21st century scam
Another Musk L
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They need a constant revenue stream. Someone buying it at $8000 when getting a new car could theoretically use it for ten years, and Tesla won't see a dime from them for that entire period. They'll make far more money in that time period charging monthly, because of course there will be multiple price increases over the lifespan of the vehicle. And yes, people will subscribe and forget about it. Even if only for a month. That's still free money in their pockets.
The irony is that they also fucked up TACC. Literally a cruise control that just went a fixed speed would be better than what my S does.
Prepare to see a huge uptick in stories about Teslas crashing into things, killing occupants.
Honestly, my opinion is this is it right here. They've used this play before to juice pricing by 'ending' discounts or declaring a new price baseline only to then lower it again later.
I'm never buying a car with a \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* subscription. I'm buying it, owning it and not renting it.
Imagine owning a car that comes with a big subscription fee for a feature that's kind of integral to that car? Does that destroy the resale value? Who is going to buy a used car that has endless, ongoing payments with it? On a side note, the article has a throwaway quote that essentially summarizes up Tesla (and Musk himself) in one sentence: \> something Musk said would happen every year for the last 7 years, and it never happened.
He has 10 years to do it. Believe if he fails he still gets a $50B payday.
There is a pending lawsuit on it. The subscription model does get them out of that, so there will be no *new* people added to that lawsuit pool. All the subscription promises is "each month, you get what you get, whatever it is at that time."
Well, their claim is that they will update it constantly, and it's on a march to *actual* full self driving someday. The *theory* is that the subscription model covers the fact that what you have on day 1 isn't what you have on day 100 or 500 or 1000, because each month it is supposed to get better. That's the *theory* of course. That it's like paying for upgraded versions of your software on your computer in a way. In practice it's a ripoff though.
But they don’t even have a working full self driving package to sell?
You're assuming all Tesla buyers are watching the same videos you were. For every fail video is a success one. Most buyers don't sit on forums
>Tesla might be betting that more users who plan to keep their vehicles long term will pay up-front within the next month, **boosting Tesla’s profits this quarter.** duh...
Another money grab
Backfiring heated seats sounds painful.
You say healthy, but he occasionally drops an article that reminds you that he still wants his relationship with fElon to go back to what it was.
Agreed, but anyone who did a minimum amount of research should have realized Elon is a massive POS/grifter and they shouldn’t have bought anything he sold.
As a business person, I like long term revenue that I don't have to work for. As a customer, I like low up front costs. Match made in heaven for a lot of situations. The number of people who lease a poverty spec baby Benz when they should have bought a 2010 Corolla with the few bucks they have is incredible. BMW fucked it up when they tried to simplify production while still getting to upsell people on it even after purchase. They didn't want to sell it as a one time post purchase upgrade because people would likely try to hack/aftermarket the wiring is too high so connect it to the computer and just put it behind a software lock.
The best one yet was BMW charging a subscription for heated seats. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-62142208.amp I think they eventually changed the model because everyone hated it lmao.
Like Adobe Photoshop?
It’s not even in beta as a full self driving product. It’s a L2 ADAS.
Pay to have it wreck your car and end you 😝😝
I had a buddy buy a Model 3 in 2018 I want to say. He added on FSD to EAP when Tesla was running some kind of promo/sale. He thought it was going to drive his kids around to friends, grandparents, etc. Of course, it didn't. Then, in 2023 he traded it in (got the FSD valued at basically $0 and his trade-in offer was \*lower\* than Carvana, Carmax, etc.) for a Model Y. It was one of the few quarters Tesla wasn't doing a free FSD transfer (lol). I just heard he bought FSD...\*again.\* Some people just like getting Musked.
Thank goodness they are finally starting to reckon with the fact that they don't know if they can ever make it work. They used to think "when" now they are thinking "if." If there's one thing that Elon's sustained, relentless and relentlessly wrong predictions have shown, it is that no one knows that N miles of data is sufficient training data to do a vision only safe driving system. No one know that "it's just another 12 months." They are doing a research project in real time and they have a "here's the next hypothesis to try" and good for them, that's how these things get done. But *selling it to people* especially with the early messaging might have been legal but it was certainly wrong. It's why you can't find the paint it black video anymore. It's why they moved to selling FSD(supervised) and it's why they've stopped selling it.
Refresh my memory - do they need to have 10 million active subscriptions? Or will he still get that tranche if they have had 10 million cumulative subscriptions?
So they've decided to stop selling something that doesn't exist, they just rent it now.
The subscription model in this case is something I have no huge problem with, ESPECIALLY if there’s a free trial so you know what you’re currently paying for. Aside from subscriptions being BS in general, of course. Selling it outright like they did is for sure a scam though.
Is that a class action? I want to enroll 😆
> BMW fucked it up when they tried to simplify production while still getting to upsell people on it even after purchase. I believe that there is an additional step. Most BMWs sold in the United States are leased, which then feed the CPO sales. I suspect that the real goal was for BMW to sell options twice. The heated seats are a subscription rolled into the lease, then they are an additional purchase during the CPO sale.
I don't want anyone having external power over my car in the first place.
Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
I don't think it will matter if they don't even have 10M cars on the road capable of running the code. His next grift will be to try to achieve that by offering FSD to other companies, which none of them will be stupid enough to use.
> True, and when BMW tried it with heated seats, it backfired on them. People always bring up this example but Tesla have been selling an "acceleration boost" package for nearly a decade which is essentially a digital lock on the full power of the engine you paid for and own. Where is the backfire? Mental.
If there’s not specific wording that would prevent them from using cumulative subscriptions as the metric, then it wouldn’t matter whether there were 10 million vehicles on the road. Hell, they could say that a program change resulted in old subscriptions being cancelled, and they would suddenly have their then-current subscriber base as “new” subscriptions. If there’s a shitty, dishonest way to achieve a goal, you can bet Tesla will use it.
So get some shills to unsubscribe and resubscribe every month?
It’s junk
Another testament to the fact that Tesla buyers are bigger suckers. It's all a big mindfuck, and sadly that's the way the world is heading.
I think the subscription model sucks. If they really want to, they should sell it like software, and have it be version based. You get todays version (let's say 5.0) when you buy the car, just as part of the base price. There should NEVER be a subscription cost for continuing to use version 5.0. From there, you should then be free to buy the 6.0 upgrade, or wait until 7.0 or later if you want. You shouldn't be required to pay every month if you just want to keep using what you have.
False advertisement doesn't exist if you're close to the administration!!
Oh pish-posh! That’s *corporate puffery*, don’tchya know!
Honestly shocked the people that paid 15k in the beginning are not raising hell. They must have been rich rich and not care because I’d be livid.
Believe Tesla disables FSD off many cars it takes in on trade and then offers a trial when the car is sold used. Coupled with them not increasing the trade value for FSD cars says it's a pure money grab that their customers are somehow ok with.
Puffery is euphemistic shysterspeak for "fraud!"
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I have a 2020 model X with FSD and unlimited super charging. Waiting for Tesla to somehow disable things that I paid 100% for.
You could argue that everyone who bought a Tesla since April 2019 when Musk made his famous autonomy day statements, and even prior to that, was scammed, so 8+ years. If I recall correctly, at that event, Elon Musk essentially said Teslas were appreciating assets on account that they all had the hardware for FSD already in the vehicles. I imagine he was claiming all model 3s, and a chunk of model S/X's had the hardware. It wasn't contingent on the customer actually buying the overpriced FSD package. That claim was likely because he suggested every Tesla with the stated hardware could become a robotaxi with a simple OTA update, with the capability to instantly be turned into a cash printer that generated $30k in profits per year for 10 years, made while the owner slept, and thus the value of the car's hardware is an appreciating asset. This capability, he claimed, would be ready by mid 2020, 1.25 years from the time of his claim, resulting in 1 million customer owned robotaxis instantly appearing on the roads across the US. He went on to say, "It's financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla".
So what happens when your subscription expires while you are driving and you have not paid prepaid for its continuation? Would it wait, until you complete your drive, and then warn you that your subscription has stopped, so don’t drive any further expecting it work as FSD? Or it would switch from unsupervised to supervised mode? Of course assuming unsupervised has already become a reality by then. If unsupervised has no steering wheel then what happens? Does the car become a brick?
Atleast the seats actually do heat. Imaging paying FSD subscription. Thanks tesla for allowing me to pay monthly for crashing into the next streetlight <3
Worked fine when they used the radar that was in the car. :( They took a working useful thing and broke it along the way.
It'll definitely be a long legal battle, and I'm curious how much it'll actually return to the FSD and/or vehicle customers. Will it only refund the price of FSD? Will his lies about the cars being appreciating assets hold up in court on account that he qualified the statement by including "I believe" in it? That said, just refunding the purchase price of FSD would cost the company somewhere in the neighborhood of $5-$8 billion, and remove any FSD related deferred revenue from their financials.
"They paid the equivalent of 12 years of subscriptions for a product that is still arguably in beta." Arguably in Beta? What's even arguable, that it was far worse than a beta test version?
Not only that, but they lost any interest that money could have earned. Lol, lmao even
Point is you can’t fool me twice
I would be ecstatic if the brainwashed masses would only post support occasionally between bouts of reasonable analysis and criticism.
Likely kills class action lawsuits where people who spent $8k on FSD packages can't move them between their cars after being told they were coming for decades.
Or that.
FSD is "coming soon" I heard...
Sure thing Elon.
Why will they need to refund anything? Owners who previously purchased FSD or anyone who buys it before February 14th will be able to use it for as long as the life of the vehicle and/or offer the car as a robotaxi and pocket the income.
Ehhhhh I wouldn’t say that for all of them. Know a few people that just had long commutes. They bought teslas not giving a shit about most of the Elon promises, but because it got them carpool lane access on socal freeways. One of them considered getting a leaf instead, but just found the Tesla more comfortable so they went with Tesla.
"Full" "Self"-Driving, you mean.
Lmao, and the people on HW3 that will never get FSD?
> In my view, every single customer who bought FSD the last 6 years has been scammed. Because they have.
How is it false advertising if he sold the car in 2020?
Cars have never appreciated unless it's a very rare car. I remember him saying Teslas would *appreciate.* I can't wrap my head around an adult car buyer not knowing that.
makes you wonder. It almost feels like it would be extremely stupid for tesla to NOT start building a legal pool of cash behind the scenes in case they have to settle the FSD lawsuit, but knowing elon is at the helm, they might very well not be doing it thinking they can win such a lawsuit. If you put a gun to my head and told me to put all of my money on predicting a class action lawsuit's result for FSD, I'd guess they settle, I certainly wouldn't guess that they would win
yo thats fucking crazy lmao. I never bought FSD despite owning a tesla since 2020 and I certainly never will. funny enough their free trials of FSD that they've given me multiple times has only convinced me more to never buy it.
Louis rossman enters the chat
I think its almost certainly either a marketing gimmick to get people to think it will never be on sale again and to buy now, OR its just them trying to grab a ton of short term revenue to pump this quarter's result.
yeah I originally bought my tesla in late 2020 and although there was a couple of interesting videos, there certainly was not enough to convince me FSD would actually be what the name implied it would be. there still isnt. ive been given a free FSD trial from tesla at least 3 times in the last year or so and every time its still dog shit.
Ive been holding out getting rid of my tesla for as long as possible for economic reasons but if they take away the heated seats i might revolt
G. W. Bush. What do i win? (German, was never in USA)
Unless you're an investor, who apparently believe the guy who promises every year for 8-10 years that FSD will be viable "next year."
Will the subscription service relieve Tesla of responsibility in accidents? Level 5 autonomous driving requires manufacturers to held responsible for any accidents that is caused by the car.
some were scammed, some were killed.
Mark my words... because of Musk's bullshit, countries are going to open up their markets to China and that will be it for Tesla. I'll go further. In less than 5 years from now, Tesla will stop selling cars altogether. They'll try to sell "car software" and get the Chinese manufacturer's, or GM and Ford, to install it as an "AI feature upgrade", but that won't last long. They ultimately might be left with nothing but the charging network, which GM will buy off them for pennies on the dollar. Musk is going to die a washed up loser hated by the world and even his own children.
No but the subscription model makes sense as the car already has all the equipment installed so the subscription fee is essentially the cost for Tesla to insure the vehicle while it’s using an l3+ system if it ever gets that far. Tesla can adjust the cost of the subscription as well just as insurance rates can go up (or down).
> They were scammed. They were, but anyone who bought something based on future promises rather than what the capabilities were when they bought it, is a fool.
> And every investor has been lied to. Yeah, but they don't care, because they're making out like bandits (until the coming crash).
And tesla will defend and win under FSD actually being an industry term they coined and available. Judge will rule people should not expect the english to mean english.
yeah this is the correct answer. He needs that 10M for sure.
there's also market cap hurdles too to unlock the tranches.
I'll have to evaluate the cash flow on this; FSD was working pretty well for me on this last trial period. $8000 is a $40/mo opportunity cost for life; probably cheaper to just punt the $100/mo or whatever when I really want it.
"We're going to sell Teslas so far below market value and demand will so outpace supply that, even used, they will resell for more than what you paid."
In principle, the SEC is supposed to care.
Like he doesn’t have hitting any arbitrary market cap in his CV already…
My argument wasn’t that subscriptions are good (they suck). It’s that in the case of a subscription the customer gets what they’re paying for as they aren’t paying for a future promise. They know they’re paying to use the software in its current state for the subscription period , and can cancel if they don’t like it.
i think it works out better to buy it out right for customer. the subscription model is better for the company.
I won’t be surprised if Trump grants Tesla a presidential pardon to try to indemnify them against civil lawsuits.
yeah in daily freeway traffic A/P is easier to manage. on the rare long trip FSD might be useful, it is handy for active navigation in cities you haven't been to before.
Beyond this news... It's been clear since Musk's grandiose April 2019 Autonomy Day claims that Tesla and Musk never had any real intention of giving customers access to robotaxi software in their personal vehicles. Not only did it not make any sense for Tesla to give them access, but the logistical hurdles in doing it would be nearly impossible to overcome. So why make the claim? Simple really, because in 2019, Elon Musk and Tesla management were already preparing to game the stock market. Their intention was to report four straight profitable quarters to get into the S&P 500, and they were loading up on and holding shares of the company, even getting bank loans using their existing Tesla stock holdings as collateral, and buying up shares on the open market to lock up more shares and push prices up. The number of actively traded shares dropped on account of massive stake holders like Musk, family, friends, banks, and cult like buy and hold forever shareholders. The plan was to get into the S&P 500. By getting into that index, S&P index funds would be forced to buy Tesla stock while their actively traded share volume was low, causing the stock price to soar, causing short squeezes, causing people to FOMO into the stock, and importantly causing their weighting in the S&P 500 index funds to soar well above overweight. As they were re-weighted higher, a process that's generally automated at these index funds, it would force the indexes to re-balance and buy even more shares in the company and force the stock price even higher. That's exactly the dynamic that lead Tesla stock to shoot up 800% in 2020 alone, and it kept going up in 2021. The FSD package was a big part of this plan, along with their future plans for autonomous taxis. If Musk could get on stage in early 2019 and convince a bunch of Tesla stans to buy up excessively overpriced FSD software, it would boost Tesla's profits and ensure they got their 4 profitable quarters. It would also lead to what was essentially a huge number of unpaid interns, their FSD customers, working for Tesla to test and train their FSD autonomous driving algorithms while taking all of the liability in the event of an accident. This had the beneficial side effect of de-risking Tesla's own liability for this training. You could actually say the FSD customers paid a hefty amount for the privilege of working as unpaid interns at Tesla. For those that don't know, the ability to use one's car as a robotaxi has never been part of the FSD purchase agreement. All of the claims of a million customer vehicles suddenly becoming robotaxis overnight with an OTA update, or customers making $30k per year while they slept, or that Teslas were appreciating assets... It was all stated by Musk on stage in that April presentation without any formal contractual language putting it in stone for customers. In other words, Musk intentionally lied to customers and investors. Critics quickly realized that what Musk was saying didn't make any logical sense. He claimed that people could buy his cars and FSD for relatively cheap, and those vehicles would quickly become cash printers, returning around 8x-10x profits on the cost of investment over the course of a decade. With returns that high, it would represent one of the best investments in history. If this were true, then as customers began making profits, they could easily re-invest the profits to buy more Teslas and push out more robotaxis with 8x-10x returns vs cost of purchase, right? Of course not! In reality, if this situation were to occur, it would quickly oversupply the market with robotaxis and profit margins would collapse for both the customers and for Tesla. Critics realized that it made no financial sense for Tesla to give this technology to their vehicle customers when they could easily rapidly build out their own fleet of robotaxis and just run their own taxi service, keeping all of the revenue and profits for themselves, while controlling the supply of taxis. \_\_\_\_ I think most Tesla FSD customers were also shareholders who believed this drivel because it served their best interests. They believed all the hype in hopes of getting rich quick, with many of them investing their life savings in the company... sometimes even more than that... Ironically, since that big boost in 2020-2021, the stock's largely just gone sideways for 4 years. It's underperformed the index funds. However, these days, I highly doubt most Tesla shareholders or Tesla/FSD vehicle owners think their cars will ever be allowed to be used as robotaxis. I think most of them realize that their main goal is for Tesla to launch their own service, and they as shareholders will reap the rewards through a higher share price. For this reason, they're more than happy to work as unpaid interns to do the work of testing and training the autonomy models while taking full liability in the event the system does something wrong. The potential stock gains is just too much for them to consider reality. The reality is, Musk is in this for himself, and he doesn't care who he has to lie to or hurt in order to win.
If Elon is found guilty of fraud then wouldn't he be denaturalized as per his buddy Donald?
When you are drowning you often try to kill your savior. I can only hope this signals the final death throes.
That’s because BMW drivers have some kind of self-respect.
"fool me once, shame on you. Fool me...you can't get fooled again" - G W Bush
\^ BMW driver, though it's now more of a "classic".
His indicates take-up of new FSD packages must be flatlining. Hence trying to milk monthly cash flow as much as possible with the monthly subscription. Which is interesting, because if you go anywhere near Twitter it’s full of Musk dick riders claiming FSD is “solved”.
damn, even the teslamotors subreddit are hating this. Those people are usually bouncing on elon's dick no matter what they do, they seem to feel cheated and scammed now.
Yeah I have a 2019 model 3, I paid 4k (I think) for FSD. At this point they’ll have to upgrade the computer and cameras in my car to make good on their claims. I’ll keep that car till it dies. It’s paid off and I rarely drive after the pandemic, I wfh, take like two long driving trips per year and my wife has an EV6 that we mostly use as it has more room for the kids. So it sits in the driveway under a car cover. Gets charged regularly and driven to the grocery once a month, cleaned every so often. Barely has 30k miles on it. So we’ll see where the lawsuit ends up. I’d like a refund. It never panned out to what was promised and certainly not on the timeline. There’s been no guarantee of hardware upgrades etc so yeah. I don’t know who in tf would rent FSD for more than a month, they likely never will again after that. So I say good luck to them. They probably know they’re gonna get sued and lose, hence not wanting to sell a product like FSD anymore. They’ll make a 6000 page EULA and tie that to your subscription. There are moments when it’s surprisingly flawless but man it also has done some really dumb and annoying shit and at this point it likes to run into traffic lane markers and hugs the left of the lane severely. Can’t really use it. Not sure I’d ever buy another Tesla after Elon gargled daddy drumpf’s balls. Shame, the once kind of game changing company, could have stayed the course. Oh well…
It never has and never will be FSD. So saying it's in Beta is giving them too much credit.
Nah, he's just pissed that he never got the free Roadster he was promised, and never will.
Correct. Something can't be in beta if it does not even exist.
On the other hand, I would be ashamed to drive a car which is associated with a taxi service. It lowers desirability of a car. That's why they created a dedicated taxicab model.
pay package for elon
**Full** Self Driving.
One of the only smart things I’ve done with this car is not buy FSD! I bought my car at the height of the prices without the tax credit:(
Ever heard of Microsoft office; Adobe Acrobat, Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.; AutoCAD? These all have been doing the same for years. I don't love it as a consumer either but this is not a Tesla idea. This is becoming the standard for software that operates on local hardware.
Yes, this please. They should all do this.
You can buy a permanent license to office (for running locally). Day that stops being true is the last copy of office I buy (online on the other hand is fair, as you're using their servers and their electricity). I believe you on the rest, but also won't be "renting" any of them. And open source is the thing that keeps them honest. Office is pretty good and I don't mind buying a copy from time to time (pretty much always when I get a new computer) but it's not like I don't have options if they decide to start being stupid
Ew
The funny thing about the "appreciating asset" statement is that their actions have actually increased depreciation on their vehicles. They aren't even fully supporting vehicles made less than 3 years ago with FSD HW3.
I stopped having hope for it when they removed the scanning hardware and went full camera, stupid cost cutting and unsafe practices it at least had potential then
Fool me three or more times and you can be guaranteed I'm a Republican.
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