Tesla changes meaning of ‘Full Self-Driving’, gives up on promise of autonomy

HAHAHAHAHHA Oops I mean "concerning".

>Furthermore, Tesla’s board has just submitted a new, unprecedented CEO compensation package for shareholders’ approval, which could give Musk up to $1 trillion in stock options pending the achievement of certain milestones. >One of these milestones is Tesla having “10 Million Active FSD Subscriptions.” >At first glance, this would be hopeful for FSD buyers since part of Musk’s compensation would be dependent on delivering on the FSD promises. >However, Tesla has changed the definition of FSD in the compensation package with an extremely vague one” *“FSD” means an advanced driving system, regardless of the marketing name used, that is capable of performing transportation tasks that provide autonomous or similar functionality under specified driving conditions.*

Wow

Earning every cent of that $1,000,000,000,000.

So the promise of using your Tesla to make money while you sleep?   Vaporware?

Tesla gave up on the promise of autonomy in 2019. This does not mean autonomy is not coming. It means that autonomy is NOT going to be free. It will cost billions of dollars a year to maintain an autonomy solution and you'll pay for it. I believe other automakers won't have autonomy simply because it will be too cost prohibitive if your scale of vehicles is not high enough. 2 million vehicles x 1200 a year ($99 a month) and you're looking at $2.4 billion a year. So if someone has only 200K vehicles do you charge $1000 a month to get the billions you need? In the long run that's why I believe there will only be one auto maker. It may not be tesla but someone else would have to have a cheap autonomy solution before then.

It’s only vaporware when you give up faith in Saint Elon.

So... Autopilot counts

And stock pumps. Crazy times

It still won't scale.

Dude come on that was so last week. 80% of the future value is going to be robotics…didn’t you see our THIRD prototype demo that was quite possibly the most embarrassing attempt at a robot I’ve seen

they are about to sued so hard on FSD its a name that will be remember in corporate disaster training

I'm honestly shocked they let that video be released.

"Musk has been discussing the upgrade of the computers in these vehicles to appease owners, but there’s no concrete plan to implement it." He said that once they figure it out, they'll start talking about a free upgrade to HW3 owners. But as long as they're updating the software - and hardware - there will never be an upgrade to owners with older hardware. And people with older vehicles will see a great drop in value since it won't do what people will expect.

It's a simple mistake of a misplaced hyphen! Full-Self Driving = when I have a big meal and then drive home

Don’t tease me.

"autonomous or similar" i.e. autonomous or not-autonomous

For anyone who hasn’t seen https://youtube.com/shorts/mOIxtSSa1NE?si=bWMxVsz_d88Vr7Q1

Best comment I saw was that "it communicates like my 16 year old son and walks like my 80 year old dad".

Hilarious…it’s loud AF too. I don’t see the point if it can’t even get you a drink and asks you to walk with it instead like…Tesla engineers couldn’t even hack a video together in pre-mapped area to make it look smarter than it really is.. Elons grift is diminishing

Perfect. And in other news in the NBA if you can hit the rim with the ball, we will go ahead and call that 2 points.

That was easy to predict since teslas don´t have the sensors necessary for autonomy. The cameras only approach is a dead end.

Noone with more than half a brain would buy a car capable of driving itself and then pay for a subscription to use that feature.

Tesla FSD is vaporware, the Teslabot is vaporware, The Tesla Semi is Vaporware and so many other things.

No, legally it's not vaporware unless it comes from the vapor region of France. Without that, software capability that they're claiming but doesn't and probably will never exist is just sparkling mistware.

cool so if I subscribe then I’m one of ten million people closer to providing Elon musk with even more ridiculous amounts of money? Guess I’ll just never subscribe even if it somehow was to start working (impossible)

by that definition, radar cruise control counts. It is autonomous-similar functionality under specified driving conditions.

So where are the lawsuits? Seems like this was blatant lies to the customer, no?

That's OK, we know the CEO is a bullshitter and haven't believed anything he says for quite some time anyway. But the people who paid for that promise should demand their money back.

Can Elon buy all the subscriptions himself with $2.4B and cash in on the $1T? This is like my $2 Powerball ticket when I win the jackpot tomorrow!

He promised himself that money just like he promised us self-driving cars. Neither one of those things is ever happening.

How is what Tesla and its board are doing with the blatant stock manipulation not incredibly fucking illegal

It's unreal that this isn't a $50 billion dollar lawsuit. The 2019 FSD presentation was the fraudiest of the frauds that have ever been presented.

i don't understand how this is all cool and legal. i guess that's why i'm not a billionaire...

Cruise control counts

It is, and Tesla isn’t the only company doing it. Carvanna is another blatant example. The billionaires controlling America don’t care, because it’s mostly how they all got rich. They aren’t going to investigate themselves.

This company is a joke. Musk’s compensation plan is the biggest joke of all. For the $1T comp plan to “make sense,” Tesla basically has to become: Toyota + Apple + Google DeepMind + Uber + Boston Dynamics, all rolled into one mega-company, with margins nobody in autos has ever achieved. It’s not happening.

I want my $12,000 back

I spent 12k because of that fraudulent presentation.

I think a court would be less likely to find that meets the intent of "advanced driving system". I think level 2 ADAS requires features that can control both speed and steering, so like adaptive cruise control plus lane centering assist, which Autopilot provides.

Then the US seems to have a lot of half-brained consumers!

Give this man a trillion dollars

[deleted]

Fuck Elmo

Well, look who they elected. There was nothing smart about that.

Can’t dance either!

“Under specified driving conditions” is pure get of jail free language

Well, since the legal theory of "corporate puffery" was put forward and affirmed, a corporation can make any promise, charge for it, and later redefine what it means, and consumers will have no recourse. Capitalism!!

>*So the promise of using your Tesla to make money while you sleep?   Vaporware?* Yes, and it always will be because of the liability. Tesla isn't going to assume the liability if your owned car crashes while the Tesla computer and Tesla software is in control with no human/owner supervising, or even present. And insurance companies aren't going to insure your vehicle if no entity can be held accountable when a driverless car crashes. And a private owner isn't going to use FSD when unsupervised if they are going to have to foot the bill for all of its crashes, scrapes and dings every year. Now, Tesla may start a driverless taxi company and assume liability, but they sure aren't going to switch millions of their privately owned vehicles over to unsupervised driving and assume the responsibility if your car crashes.

I've said this before but I really wish they focused on incremental improvements and moved along the SAE autonomy levels. While I know full autonomy is out of the picture, I'm sure most HW3 Teslas are capable of attaining certified Level 3 autonomy with a little work and dedication and some minor retrofits, like radar and infrared lighting for the interior camera.

We have changed the meaning of “full self driving” to “not full self driving”.

I keep saying it again and again, stop chasing the carrot. Full self driving won’t happen as long as NHTSA is around. Too much regulation and too little investment. Waymo was the right way of doing it, adding AI as it evolves to keep expanding the territory until it is all covered. Autosteer without steering wheel inputs is all that is really needed and we can’t go back to the radar assisted advanced autosteer without steering wheel nags now. So again, 3 steps forward 2 steps back has been the FSD way since birth. The money invested was for far fetched ideas and yes men just playing the role and coasting. I’m surprised the Cybertruck even launched, and if I was betting man I would bet the Roadster will never launch.

So close. It’s the Foggy Vapor Region of California. If it’s from anywhere else, it’s just Sparkling Fraud.

Mo-cap Clanker

So does my moms 5 year old Honda accord has self driving!

That was never going to happen. The cars don't have motorized doors. Someone gets out of your "taxi" and doesn't shut the door and walks off.....now what? Not to mention you would need complete interior camera coverage to hold the rider liable for any damage done. This was a known lie from day one.

> It means that autonomy is NOT going to be free. People paid $8-16000 USD for that already. The only thing free was the fraud.

Cruise control maybe.

Is Autopilot the marketing name at Tesla for Adaptive Cruise Control and Keep in Lane Assist? I.e. standard equipment in most of the new cars I’ve been in lately.

Might as well say FSD is when the car is moving with a human in it or not

Stock skyrockets.

>The cars don't have motorized doors. Someone gets out of your "taxi" and doesn't shut the door and walks off.....now what? This is funny and a new trend is born!

No, money down!

Reverse parking sensors count

Otherwise its just sparkling fraud

The US today is like Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. A lawless, fastest-fingers first grabfest of assets that is creating a class of oligarchs which, through its chokehold on political power, reaches stratospheric levels of wealth and influence, leaving the general population enslaved and fighting over scraps.

Because they don't care about the actual functionality, they want the money from the subscriptions.

Full Self-Driving = you fully drive it yourself

No tech bro has ever been able to achieve such a feat

FSD was a great idea, because you could use the car as a cab, and make money that way. With the new FSD you can still use the car as a cab AND now you’re behind the wheel, so you also have a job at the same time. It’s literally 100% more benefits at no extra cost to you. The stock price will surely skyrocket now.

You know the saying, “there’s one born every minute”? That’s 525.960 idiots every year, so over a 10 year period that 5 million idipts. They just have to buy stocks, and considering how many idiots have already bought stocks, I think we’re pretty close to a valuation of a bajillion dollars.

Yall are just bears. Go ahead and sell.

Or you will be fully self-driving it...

Scammer Musk scams again. What a surprise.

Autonomous or sort of autonomous, but only when it’s not too sunny, or rainy, or foggy, or snowy, or overcast, or on a road that isn’t very well marked, or maybe one that is but in a way that confuses the car, or if there are vehicles around behaving in an unpredictable way, and as long as the human driver is ready to take over at any time with about 0.3s notice, and as long as you don’t mind the car occasionally veering off the road or into oncoming traffic. You know, what people would naturally imagine when you call something Full Self Driving.

If it worked, people would be willing to pay a lot. The US/the world isn’t on the brink of starvation. People have money.

No. From "full self-driving" to "full self driving".

Similar doesn't even mean "exactly as good as". It means "kind of like". So "similar to autonomous" has already been met with FSD, it is "kind of like" autonomous driving. But it isn't autonomous driving. What a crooked company.

too much regulation? you think that’s the problem?

That one also made it pretty obvious that the Dancing Optimus video from a few months ago was completely fabricated. Unless Tesla is telling us that in three months of 'progress' it actually regressed from [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DicNKZyCnJc) to [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mOIxtSSa1NE?t=21&feature=share)

The head of robotics leaving in June didn’t help I’m sure lol

Tesla in the last couple of weeks ventured out of North America and China and enabled FSD in Australia/New Zealand. Australia has strict truth in advertising laws, so this was always on the cards. I will add that the reports coming in are that this V13 version is pretty damn good and is the best of all Level 2+ systems available on the market. I will give Tesla credit for that.

If he increases the price of every car by $5, he can provide FSD for no additional cost, and have the same revenue as today. So that's an easy win for him haha

Riding in your Cybertruck while it is on the back of a flatbed tow-truck counts.

[Musk promised fully autonomous driving for more than a decade.](https://youtu.be/zhr6fHmCJ6k?si=8uo1pmEd1HIBcJ5x) For 11 years, CEO Elon Musk has been promoting and declaring fully autonomous driving will be available "next year". The world's richest man can lie to customers, investors, government agencies, and the public for over a decade and face no consequences. He's now being rewarded with a payment incentive of a trillion dollars to continue business this way.

All waffle. It's a fail.

How many Australian lives are you willing to lose with "reports coming in" and "pretty damn good"? When Tesla changes the definition of Fully Self Driving to mean not fully self-driving, that is a reversal. This is similar to saying a Nazi salute is how people salute the American flag. Just remain calm without resistance, remove your clothing, the showers are this way...

+3% in stock price from this news

10 Million Active FSD Subscriptions. They could just buy an existing phone app business with 10 M subscribers signed up and rename the feature and call it “FSD” and meet the 10 Million goal.

VW is selling a subscription to use all the car's [horsepower](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62weyp4qqgo).

Oh look, another reason to not invest in the meme stock

How is Carvana manipulating their stock? I don't see the comparison making sense.

So is it now Kinda Self Driving. But you must have your hands on the wheel at all times?

Being partially liable for a $200+ million settlement will get the corporate attorneys changing same language.

So when are you Tesla fanboys going to file a class action lawsuit to get your FsD money back?

Yes

It's always going to be "it will work with the next hardware upgrade." I put down a deposit in 2016, finally in 2018 received one of the earliest Model 3s with HW2. I paid for FSD (silly me). Then they said "FSD requires HW3." So I waited and waited and finally got that hardware upgrade. But still no FSD, no no no! Just around the corner! After 3 years I traded it in. Not sorry.

My question is, do you think they've figured out "FSD" is never gonna work without LIDAR? Musk's ego will never permit him to acknowledge that, and therefore "the Board" cannot acknowledge it, so they're throwing bullshit out there like the new "plan" as a distraction while they try to cover their asses legally in the background. Ten bucks this company does nothing but sell energy like any old utility in 10 years.

Nobody gets this point. Elon is only second to the king of grifting himself...DJT.

Like Uber plus?

A trillion in stock options? Where exactly is this trillion coming from?

They want us to “subscribe” to cruise control, now? Sheesh … 😄

Which, to be fair, might happen quite a lot - when it’s not catching fire …

Sounds ambitious. Until he decides to drop the price to zero and enable it on the entire fleet. Then he just has to have 10 million vehicles.

I wish. I’d love to get back my $6,000 (plus interest) I paid for “Full Self-Driving Capability” back in 2019. The lawsuit would go all the way to SCOTUS, which is super-corp friendly, if it didn’t get killed in arbitration first.

it'll happen states don't love elon and people have died and they covered up the data

Wow, you got screwed worse than me. I only lost $6K in 2019.

My 2019 order agreement explicitly states “Full Self-Driving Capability”. If it all hinges on the hyphen, I might be able to get my $6K plus interest back.

What is “Waste, Fraud, & Abuse”?

I don´t know what that is.

I know and people buying the car are all idiots. The ones not paying for the subscription are idiots for paying full price for a car they can´t use completely, while the ones paying for the subscription are idiots for paying twice to fully use what they´re already paid for.

There are enough people dumb enough to pay for a car and pay again to fully use it.

Everyone who purchased for actual fsd should make a class action lawsuit

That’s not a hyphen, that’s a minus

Concerning

If something is against the law, but the perpetrator is never held accountable, was it actually illegal?

But theyve already collected millions of dollars from suckers so all good. Theyll try it again in a few months under a new name so musk can get his TRILLION

correlation, not causation

Can someone tell me how you make not full autonomous robo taxies? My guess is that Tesla still works in autonomous FSD with HW5 but changed thebmeaning to a level that is achieved today to make Musk egliable for the package no matter what comes. I just don't get why to reward Musk when he already los interrest in the car business.

I think they have figured out the LIDAR limitations, but they like covering them up by blaming regulatory approval etc. for FSD not being real. Tesla is a battery company. They delivered 1.81m vehicles in 2023, 1.79m in 2024, and are on track for 1.44m in 2025…. Not a good trend.

All the tech bros touting AI are nothing but grifters.

Just for comparison, I want this same take and example made out of the original package when the sentiment was similar. Just want to understand how much bigger of a joke it is now than it was then..

Did they rename it to reflect their testing this shit on millions of unwitting public, who didn't consent to being a part of some human stain's experimental software?

Fascist Supporting Drivers

With regulations falling every day they know that excuse is drying up fast.

Chat gpt because I am lazy. Account Inflating via Risky Loans & Related Parties Carvana reportedly boosted its profits by selling risky subprime car loans, often underwater (i.e. the loan balance exceeded car value), to third parties well positioned to bite the bullet later. This move was more about short-term gain than long-term sustainability.    A red flag: $800 million in loan sales went to a suspected related party—likely a trust tied to Cerberus Capital, where a Carvana director (and former VP Dan Quayle) has ties.    2.  Insight from Hindenburg Research The notorious short-seller released a report titled “A Father–Son Accounting Grift For The Ages,” suggesting that these shadier-than-shady accounting practices are propping up Carvana’s “mirage” turnaround.    They allege that insiders—especially the CEO’s father, Ernest Garcia II—were unloading massive amounts of stock while the financials looked artificially strong.   3.  Insiders Cashing Out at Peak Garcia II sold about $3.6 billion in Carvana shares from August 2020 to August 2021—right before the stock collapsed by 99%. Fast forward to 2024, after a brief rebound, he quietly dumped another $1.4 billion more.  All this insider selling has sparked speculation: Did they see the bubble before everyone else? 4.  Temporary Profit, Permanent Questions Carvana reported a few quarters of modest profits by slashing costs and relying on those shady loan sales again. For every $1 in net income, they created a whopping $139 in market cap—pure financial wizardry, or just smoke and mirrors?

Thanks for following up. I assumed that's what you're going to say. This is one of the failings of AI. If a subject is not well understood AI can't understand it well because it's actually not smart at all, yet. On this particular topic I happen to be a material expert because I've lost a fair bit of money shorting carvana. I could go into a lot of detail but here's what it boils down to. They set up loans, bundled them, and sell them. If anything was going on in a shady way, Ally Bank wouldn't have re-upped. Ally Bank started buying those loans and then took the option up to continue buying them. If you think you can make a case that the people running Ally Bank are stupid and/or in on the scam I would love to see it. Of course some of the loans they have are high risk but they also have AAA loans. It's called a portfolio and clearly the parameters are working for Ally Bank.

Ya, I am not taking the word of a guy that lost a ton of money shorting them. Ally bank has far from a perfect track record FYI. Further, the stock price nor its loans changes what was said. In this case, it is smart enough to correctly outline the major issues. If anything it’s understating them. The stock is being/has been used to make one of the founders and his dad stunningly rich. I also just so happen to be a subject matter expert. So no, you can’t dazzle me with your insight into losing money. They literally bought stock the DAY before an earnings call when the posted a profit, jumping the stock. They also sold at its peak, before buying at its nearly lowest point. At best that’s insider trading. Source, finance major who hasn’t lost money on this stock.

When you require multiple court rulings to determine whether or not a company is liable to pay their CEO a trillion dollars.....(fill in the blank)

This is End-stage capitalism, which hates competition, free markets and one-person-one-vote type democracy.

Try Faux Self-Driving

I just want Grok in my 2020 Model Y...

> Yall are just bears. Go ahead and sell. What does that have to do with the post? Still, though, I'll bite: what is there to be bullish about with Tesla? The continual failure of FSD over years? The ridiculous robot? Their energy work? The poor quality cars?

👍

I always wondered what FSD is, because people were saying it is not.

You pay a subscription fee for cheaper service.

sounds like a scam