They aren’t selling, obsolete platforms, raise the price? Worst in class, economy in tatters, teslas image ruined for progressives and maga, and everyone, from their swatsticars. I thought the model s was cool in 2012 when it first came out.
From S3XY to “Ey?” Too bad Oldsmobile already trademarked “88,” I’m sure Elon is big mad. I do Nazi why anyone is surprised.
The prices for this company's products swing like the stock price. Every day it's 10% less, 20% more, 15% less. They really hate their customers.
One last push to try and sell 5k of each model per quarter
It was, back in the day. It also had decent controls with Mercedes parts, if I recall.
He could call the next model something like, I dunno… Battle 18?
Model S was a luxury car for a hot minute
I just opened up 2 browser windows - in one I did an image search for "2012 Model S", in the other "2025 Model S"... They're the same damn car. Other than the hood, Tesla has not changed the sheet metal at all. I'm sure this is because TSLA is the most advanced car manufacturer in the world, and has nothing at all to do with their inability to fund true model refreshes. Ditto for the Model 3. Oh well, they must be too busy working on the ~~Roadster~~, ~~Semi~~, ~~2 Seater Robotaxi~~, ~~Robovan~~, ~~Sub $25k car~~, Elon's pay package.
“Now, the base Model S All-Wheel Drive costs $96,630, while the Model X All-Wheel Drive is $101,630. Last week, both were $10,000 cheaper. Earlier this year, when Tesla mildly updated the two models, the price was hiked by $5,000. That’s a $15,000 increase in just two months for a pair of cars that are on their last legs…” Indeed. Tesla Logic. Raising the price instead of updating the car!? 🤣🤷♂️. The Lucid Air/Gravity or similar newer EV alternatives to the outdated Model S/X have progressed much better and faster. Tesla also stopped selling the Model S/X in Europe and Asia recently iirc. That’s the equivalent to giving up…they know that these cars are not competitive anymore.
It’s almost like their CEO is a drug addled bigot fuelled by hatred and poor judgement.
Elmo is a business genius, he knows more about businessing than anyone else in the world.
I’ll buy one when they do a real refresh
Imagine selling the iPhone 5 today and then raising the price on it.
They have to be exported from the US. Good 'ole DOGE and tariffs have made US made products impossible to sell abroad even with a weak dollar.
The S and X models are bought by millionaires who don’t care about an extra 10k, at least that’s the only logic I can think of here.
Every Tesla is effectively on its first generation w/ nothing but minor refreshes. They've changed a few stampings for the nose and tail slightly but I'm pretty sure you can bolt the doors right on from a 2020 Model Y right onto a new Juniper (or a 2017 3 onto a Highland) and have it kind of line right up (no worse than their typical fitment). They certainly didn't burn all their engineering investment on the Cybertruck.
They haven’t changed the sheet metal because they are still trying to figure out the fit and finish. I just laugh when I look at a Tesla’s fit and finish. Tight in one spot and large gap opposite side .
Amazon Prime Day pricing strategy.
the 911 gets way more out of a refresh than this
Tesla stock up 15% by end of week.
Which tariffs? Tesla exports these two two models from the US, not into the US. Both cars are made in the US and the sourced batteries don’t come from China for these two models. The new, higher tariffs for European high-end cars sold in the US and the low USD should have helped Tesla to sell more domestically AND export more Model S and X cars globally. I don’t get your post, please clarify.
Yep, by far the biggest area where you can see underinvestment and competition eating at Tesla it's in the higher end luxury models. AFAIK the only updates they've done was value engineering the interior with a less integrated and rotated main screen on S and X and putting a small rear screen on the center console for the rear. They did the Raven refresh of the battries and drive train too but nothing styling wise on the exterior really. These vehicles are almost completely non-competitive at this point. With the Model S you could get a Lucid Air, Audi's eTron line or even a BMW i7 instead for that price point. Same goes for the Model X, you've got Audi eTrons, Rivian's R1S, BMW's iX and even more options as you move up in price point like the Escalade IQ and IQL. Tesla just simply hasn't put much of any effort into competing with the S and X for a decade and it's really starting to show at this point. I suspect they're basically going to discontinue them down the line at this point anyways because the volumes are getting so low. Maybe they'll premise it on the economy slowing or maybe it'll be some other nonsense about needing more factory space at Fremont for some reason but they're likely on their way out at this point with nothing to replace them as Tesla continues to become an all or nothing bet on their moonshot Robotaxi and Optimus projects working out.
Elon's pay package is worth about $400,000 dollars per employee. To compare, the full pay package and compensation for the Ford CEO is about #125 dollars per employee. And he is getting this package at at time when he is head of a company that is showing declines in sales year over year (During a growing market) and a significant 70% decline in profits. But to add a bit more, Elon's pay package could pay the CEO of Ford for the next 2000 years.
Gotta get rid of inventory
Reciprocal tariffs.
I don’t see many countries adopting reciprocal tariffs for US cars. On the contrary, Trump bullied the EU to get near-zero tariffs for US-made cars, for example.
You got sales numbers on how many x/s sell in that market? Last time I heard about them, it was a rounding error compared to byd sales.
The reciprocal tariffs countries stood up to counter the ones the US raised. Tesla had to stop selling these in China which is the biggest market for Teslas at this point.
China. That was the biggest one. Tesla removed the S and X from the market as a result.
IMHO the S/X don't even compete well with Tesla. For several years the Models 3/Y had better components than S/X...batteries, motors, UI, etc - now they're on par, I guess. And little to nothing in the interior differentiates them, especially after all the deletes. Only real advantage is slightly larger interiors. I'm actually shocked the S/X have managed to keep going at all.
I think that's a big problem with the 'minimalist' design in general. You can only get so minimal and then differentiation and any luxury aspect also becomes minimal. They're probably aware of that internally too given what's been announced with the Model Y long body for the Chinese market at this point.
> The Lucid Air/Gravity Thesohwrooms are few and far between. I hoped they'd do tesla-syle testdrives where they bring you a car to try on a trailer (like I got in 2017) and nope. This and the relative unknowns with charging for non-Tesla cars in NA make me very nervous about a non-Tesla EV. I already know Tesla EVs are annoying ojn long trips and I cannot accept anythign even more annoying (And I don't want two cars, one for trips one for around town). So I suspect Tesla strategic investment into the charging infrastructure keeps paying off.
but the problem is: the established ones already have one or more. So it's only the new millionaries that remain that did not get one yet. I suspect that's not a very big market.
> Thesohwrooms are few and far between. Showrooms have a cost to operate. No company can spring into being and have showrooms in every major market. > This and the relative unknowns with charging for non-Tesla cars in NA make me very nervous about a non-Tesla EV. Most of all new EVs can charge at the Tesla charging stations without a problem. A few minutes with Google will let you know what standards an EV you're interested in supports and will probably find you a subreddit for the car where you can read about the experience of people charging with the Tesla network. >So I suspect Tesla strategic investment into the charging infrastructure keeps paying off. Sure, but not the way I think you're implying. As I said, most manufacturers switched to the Tesla standard for charging, or have an adapter, so buying/driving a Tesla is not a prerequisite for using their network. Many people have long said that the Tesla supercharger network might be the only thing of value as the company continues it's collapse.
Wow your talking points are so stale it makes me wonder how clueless one can actually be ? Are you putting on an act to seem funny?
It did in fact have switches from Mercedes.
Direction pricing no haggle haven’t you heard?
They are running dodge charger refresh rates.
Now he needs a model E between his S and X
Now he needs a model E between his S and X
Counterpoint: if you know that your (remaining) customer base is dumb, and will buy your shitty car regardless of quality or price, just to feel closer to their cult hero Elon, wouldn’t you cash in?
not so stale. I just contacted lucid the other day to see if I can do a testdrive. they told me my only option is 230 miles away... What's the non-tesla charging network that's as wide and reliable as Tesla? If you imply that anybody can charge at Tesla, I still remember there were multiple problems with different vendors. Granted I did see a Ford lighting charging at a supercharger this Friday. this was a first.
> Showrooms have a cost to operate. No company can spring into being and have showrooms in every major market. Sure, but how is that my problem? When I was getting a Tesla - they brought not one but three cars to me from 180 miles away (that was in 2017 when they were still relatively small) I contacted Lucid and they don't know when they'll be able to do that. > A few minutes with Google will let you know what standards an EV you're interested in supports good if it works eveywhere now, I remember not too long ago there were various "oh no Tesla delays allowing $OEM on their charging network" articles. Also if you go to this helpful Tesla article, you'll quickly learn that there are 3 types of tesla supercharger and type 1 is "tesla only" https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/supercharging-other-evs#vehicles No idea how many are in this 1st category. > so buying/driving a Tesla is not a prerequisite for using their network Sure. but apparently not entire network is available? For whatever reason non-tesla EVs are exceedingly rare at the tesla superchargers, at least according to my limited observations.
. . . The biggest potential market of all.
I'm sure this news will bump the stock up by another 10%
True, they ought to throttle down production, work on new models, perhaps a different name and company for those and keep making the swatsticars?
Yeah, 8 and newer get security updates. That’d be an insecure phone now. iPod click wheel practically. USB 1.0
What European is going to buy an American car? Maybe a truck, it’d all we can really do, their streets are too small, perhaps a Rivian? If they stay in biz. I’d imagine Japan and Korea will be selling more cars in Europe.
Lucid already sells **more** Lucid Airs than Tesla sells Model S in North America in 2025: “Lucid sold 2,630 Air models in Q2, up 10% from the previous year. Through the first half of 2025, Lucid Air sales are up 17% with 5,094 units sold. Lucid-Air-best-selling-luxury-EV-sedan. Tesla, on the other hand, only sold 1,435 Model Ss during the quarter, 71% fewer than it did in Q2 2024. Tesla Model S sales in the US are down 70% through the first half of the year at 2,715. Over 5000 to just 2700. That’s almost 2:1 - and Lucid is still ramping up and has a smaller distribution network compared to Tesla. https://electrek.co/2025/07/14/lucid-air-tops-tesla-for-best-selling-luxury-ev-sedan-in-the-us/#:~:text=Lucid%20sold%202%2C630%20Air%20models,17%25%20with%205%2C094%20units%20sold.&text=Tesla%2C%20on%20the%20other%20hand,it%20did%20in%20Q2%202024. Don’t extrapolate your personal experience to Lucid’s overall sales/stats. That’s a common fallacy.
Already a car market with over 30% more vehicles than all of the US.
I am not making any claims about Lucid sales. I am jus statign that I was interested in giving them a try and so far was unsuccessful. Sure I've been to their showroom in San Jose on one of my trips there, but it was during rush hour so I could not even try the car just look at it from the outside and sit inside. TBF I don't know who still wants a Model S today so it's probably a small miracle Tesla sells as many as they do however many that is.
No one wants our shit cars, is the point. Doesn't matter that their aren't any tariffs. No tariffs on having my neighbor stomp my nuts either, doesn't mean I'm buying.
101k for an unreliable, poorly made minivan...absolutely ridiculous. Tesla's basically left the S and X to rot on the vine while they chase the 3/Y sales and waste resources and money on the Cybersuck.
They dont have the means to fund true refreshes, that and their head designer is in a box of "all I can design is sedan and fatter sedan" either of his own making or that of Edolf's overbearing control of everything. That has to be why the lineup is so stale and samey and every model looks almost identical. To Tesla, the 3 and the fatter Y copy sell and that's all that matters, so why bother keeping the S and X around?
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