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I just purchased a used HW3 vehicle. I would happily pay to upgrade to HW4 provided expensive. I would love to pay for FSD
Hello, I am very whatever about it. Does it suck? Yeah. Was I naive? Yeah. It was my money and I spent it the way I wanted. Would I do it again, no. Do I lay awake at night, upset? No. Do I think about it? Not really.
I honestly just want the Minimal Lane Change feature back. I literally turned off FSD because they removed it. Went from a relaxing highway commute to constant unnecessary lane changes I needed to pay attention for and to.
What was Tesla’s logic on its removal? Were there lawsuits?
I paid $10k for FSD on our ‘21 MYP. It’s kind of okay but I don’t really trust it in busy traffic. I’m very unhappy that that there haven’t been any FSD updates for months. Are there any rumors that someday HW3 will be upgraded? I feel abandoned, left behind. I was a fool and my money has long been departed. 
Purchased back in 2016... It was more like 8k. Then transferred it to a new Tesla in 2024. Kinda cool to be able to buy an upgrade and 'move' it between cars. FSD is pretty good now. Prior, was ok+ Also transferred free charging. Very happy!
I feel like this is a very healthy way of thinking. 💯
Ya... This. Chill mode seems to calm it down.
I can’t imagine lawsuits for a feature that just stays in one lane.
I think Tesla realized it would be very expensive to upgrade everyone who has purchased to FSD. Technology moves SO FAST and I am sure HW5 will be out sooner than we think. Removing the ability to purchase FSD outright removes any liability for Tesla to have to upgrade the vehicle down the road, and incentivizes people to continually upgrade their vehicle. In a way it’s a method of creating planned obsolescence.
I think you have to go "chill" or "hurry". "standard" seems the worst of both worlds when it can't decide to go to the faster lanes or go to the slower lanes.
I report about shitty lane changes every time i drive
Paid 13k. Did 2 transfers since . No sleep lost. We use it all the time.
$8000 at some point in the past. Going to drive this fucker into the ground because Elon said he is going to give me HW4
Same. Once I couldn't say Minimize Lane Changes and also when I stopped being able to control the cruise speed of the car with the Modes, I went back to autopilot. Now with autopilot apparently not in new cars, there's a zero percent chance I'll buy another Tesla.
That and speed limit.
There was the earnings call when Elon was asked about it. Basically if HW3 can’t get to FSD levels due to the lack of tflops, they would be upgraded at no charge to HW4 Because it was an earnings call, you pretty much should be able to take that as the truth.
Agreed.
Like seriously, I have FSD but would gladly downgrade to the free lane keep that new models currently come with (before that gets axed, lol). I'm honestly not convinced that Tesla cares anymore about FSD, or at least for us HW3 folks, I feel like it's getting worse every year.
Imagine if you’d put that money into tsla shares instead, that’ll keep you up at night
In the exact same boat. He made a promise and I want it fulfilled.
Bought my car with paid FSD already on it. It works well enough for me to be happy with it on a HW3 car. I have done demo drives on two HW4 Model S cars and it’s considerably better, so I would very much like to see a HW upgrade path available.
The free upgrade possibility is the only reason I'm tempted, bought used with EAP so I'm at the $2k upgrade cost
One of my problems with HW3 is the wide variety of experiences that you can have on the same hardware and FSD version. Then when there is an issue, Tesla Service has no idea how to fix it and just starts guessing, and they're happy to charge you for their supposed fixes at every step of the way. I've driven a HW3 car on 12.6.4 recently that was nearly indistinguishable from FSD 14 on HW4. If every HW3 car behaved that way, I probably wouldn't have that much of an issue with waiting longer. Instead, I've got a HW3 car where FSD barely works, and Tesla Service is trying to blame the current update. I'm in process of trying a few more things myself to fix it, but I'm close to filing for arbitration or something to try and demand that they fix it.
That's how I think about all scams.
I could have written your post. I want to get in a lane and stay there unless the a significant problem.
Nope, 3800 so far cheapest was bought at $44 and buying more everyday I get a chance to most expensive this far was $451 Communism keeps me awake.
Same. Pretty sure I paid $12k. Really hoping that happens, but not super confident about it as time goes on.
Wasnt there a patent to improve HW3 to HW4 capabilities?
Same. I keep getting tempted to upgrade to a new S, for range mostly. But also tempted to just drive my 2017 S75 HW3 until it dies. I'm at 160kmi. I assume the battery will give out eventually.
You do know you can turn FSD off and use legacy Autopilot right?
Turn off FSD. Use legacy Autopilot.
I did the 2k upgrade to fsd from eap Was worth every penny. I bought fsd almost 2 years ago so it’s not only paid off compared to subscription, the amount of use I get out of it makes it one of my most satisfying purchases.
I invested about $5k in TSLA back in 2019 or so, I forget the exact month maybe early 2020. Sold it in 2024 for about $30k and put it toward our Chevy Silverado EV 4WT. Still enjoy my old 2017 Tesla S75 though, too.
UPGRADE. I did it for the $2k price too. Well worth it. HW3 FSD is not amazing but still very good. It has its annoyances, but still worth it, and then you will be an FSD owner when/if they do upgrade the hardware to HW4.
You should be able to buy FSD for that car.
My point is HW3 is a gimmick on city streets in my experience
Just click the upgrades section in the app and see what they offer. So simple I hope you report back here with your findings.
Yeah basically just breaks up the larger input of hardware 4 into smaller pieces and processes them individually to give you something that approximates the same thing. I wonder though since it has to do more processing will it be able to handle the increased load and still react as fast?
10 years later factor in inflation - about the same right?
I think even making different profiles is an easy way to go between the two. I just stick with the FSD personally but yeah we need something for HW2.5/3 folks. 12.6 isnt that great, especially compared to what we get to see the HW4 vehicles do.
Not as easily as before. I wish I still had a single-pull and double-pull lever, like before. Also, I bought the care with that and other features. What gives them the f-ing right to take away features I paid for?
I got free supercharging for as long as I own my car (not transferable) so yeah ive got no plans on ever giving it up, but I want good FSD too!!! 12.6 is ok but yeah its not great.
That’s what I paid. But I think by the time they get to actual FSD it’ll be cheaper to give me a new car than retro fit whatever version of hardware they’re on then.
I paid 10k, and plan to keep the car for a long time, so in the end I’ll likely make a profit on it. I see $99 a month as still a good deal for many. FSD transfer was always a nice perk but not to be expected. The lack of updates don’t bother me primarily because they took away max speed in v14. If given an update I don’t think I would activate it. It just makes no sense. Who wants a car without cruise control?
lol what???!? how is that your point from what you said. And to actually answer your question is anyone who does purchase FSD is entitled to the upgrades to make that possible (although thats not the current case for us HW3 owners) but we are owed a FSD UNSUPERVISED vehicle.
I have a 2018 Model 3 and bought FSD when it was $2k. I was also given the free upgrade to HW3. Do I regret my purchase? No. Did I expect more from it? Yes. However, I don't use FSD regularly and I don't trust it (and those around me) enough to use it on a daily basis. Do I think it's worth the price increase or subscription? No, but I feel like that's subjective to the buyer. I do feel like I bought the best case scenario for my old car though. I'd probably be seething if I bought FSD at 8k/10k/15k.
I stopped my subscription when they did that. Plain autopilot became superior
I too report things daily, I'm wondering if it just goes into the void though since they're already on v14 and I'm still on v12.
I just wish i could roll it back to the version right before they combined the stack. My highway driving experience was great. I care far, far less about fsd on local roads. I find myself just using TACC on the highways now which is also less convenient now because you cant just select between the two modes either a single or double pull. My car seems to get worse with every update and i have absolutely zero confidence i will ever get any sort of hardware upgrade. I don’t know how there is no lawsuit.
That used to be a thing?!??!! Its all I want 🥲 Super stressful for no reason
It was worth $15k to me just in DWI charges it’s saved me from
Yes, it was amazing. Only changed lanes if it needed to take an exit. I loved it, just got in the middle lane and relaxed. Didn’t care if there was a slow truck in front of me.
Chill does calm it down but it keeps going into the right lane and then you have to deal with merging with onrampers.
I bought the EAP for $6000 since I was baking it into my monthly payments. When the price dropped and there was an FSD buy-up for $2000 I pulled the trigger. Had gotten a stupidly good bonus from work so it wasn't a big deal. I'm holding onto it for an eventual free transfer that could happen 3-4 years from now when I'm ready to sell this car. If it doesn't exist I may just go with another manufacturer.
Ugh, $8k was a stretch, $15k was nuts. I'd like to see more foundational HW3 updates, but it seems like they've improved (and at times worsened) FSD n HW3 even without them somehow. The current version/config is surprisingly good.
I’ve been a Tesla die hard for a decade. This broke me.
I thought this was just me. I use chill mode now, but the problem is it rides in the far left as much as possible. In many instances that’s the worse lane to be in as people need to enter and exit the hwy.
I don't think the feature plays well with the end to end neural network.
I miss this so much
I bought my 2023 Model X Plaid and paid an extra $12,000 for FSD—right before Tesla dropped the price to $8,000. Back then it was called FSD (Beta). Then, in August 2026, I purchased the new “refreshed” Model X Plaid and transferred my FSD—now called FSD Supervised—from my 2023 Plaid to my new 2026 Plaid. The main reason I bought FSD in the first place is because I believe that once unsupervised FSD is released, it won’t make sense for Tesla to rent it for anything under $500 a month. Early on, they’ll probably offer it for around $99 per month to drive adoption. But as the system becomes more capable and people grow more dependent on it, Tesla will steadily raise the subscription price. And that’s when the people who bought FSD outright early will start to benefit from having the foresight to pay for it upfront.
Communism? What year is this?
Same. The lane changes almost get me into an accident every time.
Agreed. I have paid-for FSD on HW4($3k on a HW3 vehicle transferred for free) and I want to be able to adjust follow distance and maximum speed or at least modify the profiles they provide. I was using the Hurry profile last week on a highway(because standard is usually only +5) and it kept creeping up the speed until it hit 77mph in a 55 which will get you pulled over in these parts so I backed it off to standard. That's 22mph over the limit and will get you a serious ticket in a small town, maybe not in California but I don't want to get a fucking ticket because of FSD's shitty behavior.
I paid $6,000 for FSD back in 2019 or early 2020. I knew I was taking a gamble as an early adopter but I never thought it would take 6+ years to improve FSD to a point of reliability. Now that my car is near sunset age and I’m not getting any of the software improvements, I feel pretty fucked over. If Tesla does honor an update option to HW4 then I’ll take it under the expectation that I can finally use my car the way FSD has always been promoted/marketed. Note: I now have 270,000 miles on my PM3 with a full range of about 200miles per charge.
Luckily mine came with the car.
I know! Like why remove it?
My wifes Hyundai comes with the equivalent of the old middle tier .. so std Autopilot with lane change. It comes standard and it is actually a better, more intuitive implementation than Tesla's tbh.
That would be interesting. What if the settlement for HW3 owners wasn’t a brand new car or a retrofit, but a certified pre-owned newER Tesla that they would otherwise sell used but had at least HW4? Wonder how that would be received.
Idk if 10yrs inflation really applies. Tech as it gets better / more common should get cheaper... Look at tvs Is it worth 15k? Well, if you drive a lot, with distance that has some complexities, traffic, city... Future updates... Yes. I would buy it again. I use Auto Pilot daily and on weekends I'm on longer trips. It takes the edge off 'driving' and I like driving.
uh ... "but officer, I wasn't driving! the car was driving itself" isn't gonna keep you outta jail.
Sure, but it’s so safe and good at my drive commute that there’s hardly any chance of getting pulled over
i am like this... until these posts remind me!
This, but also give me fucking normal cruise control too!
Keeping promises isn't profitable. Please think of the shareholders.
Probably never happen. They won’t take the cost hit
Really? Why?
Hahaha yeah I hear you
You pay for hardware, software can be changed
I paid $10k and will never buy a Tesla again. All these shenanigans buy this idiot CEO makes me not trust anything about this company.
Personally, going to a subscription model for something that was a feature you could add on for a one time price shows exactly where their minds are going with the product. This is basic enshittification 101. They need to monetize something that was heavily subsidized at launch, so now it's a monthly fee. Get bent.
Omg, SAME.
fair enough!
$12k here. 1/2022. Bought the hype. Signs were there, but wanted to believe. Big regrets.
Im assuming all of mine automatically go to the void because I say it condescendingly
If you’re dumb enough to give money to Elon Musk for a future upgrade he’s promising a timeline on, you deserve what you get.
Not $15k but literally the worst “investment” I’ve ever made in my life, hands down. Can’t get anywhere with it, highway or freeway it drives like a cross between a 16yo new drivers first time ever sitting in the driver seat and Stevie Wonder. I would have been way better off putting every dime of it on 17 black
Also on hw3 we are screwed It isn't going to happen lol
Downvote me. But that won't happen. HW3 had considerably higher sales vs previous Tesla variants. A retrofit isn't economically nor technically feasible. HW4 for that matter won't achieve level 4+ and I don't expect HW5 to either. So what's the point? That's coming from an owner of a HW4 2025 Model 3 non front bumper camera, and Model S 2015 with MobilEye and retrofit infotainment. Tesla vision unfortunately cannot achieve L4 with cameras and a singular transformer model, aka single end-to-end stack(monolithic), IMO. While companies like Waymo come at the problem with multiple models each specialized for certain tasks. It's unfortunate and Tesla is betting hard that it will pay off. I'm skeptical, that's all.
Y'all were grifted.
I bought it for $10k in 2022. Right now fsd is, uhm ok. Not great but not terrible either. I would love it to be better and right now i am waiting for tesla to either update HW3 or come up with a miracle software update. With their latest patent they seem to be betting on a miracle software update but I’m skeptical. If they decide to not upgrade HW3 hardware i assume there will be class action suit of some kind. Which will likely take years to resolve, enrich a shitload of lawyers, and leave actual owners out in the cold. Ironically, tesla today told me i could transfer fsd to a new tesla if i buy before March 31 *and* i could test drive a brand new tesla with fsd for 24 hours. I think they really want to sell me a new car. Unfortunately, i really don’t want to buy another one.
Wait... People actually paid $15K ???
Meh' It's pennies in the big picture . Getting home drunk from the bar is worth every penny .
Once it’s that good there will be other manufacturers who have caught up. The market won’t support $6,000 a year for a self driving subscription when it’ll be offered for much less (free?) by the competition. Enron Mush forgets this isn’t 2015 any more, there are very good competitors in the market now (esp Chinese).
I totally agree with you. I do enjoy being able to sub for a single month for road trips (done that 2x), but removing a permanent purchase option is so anti-consumer. People want choice!
Yup, this and not being able to set an absolute speed. I want to cruise control at 78 maximum.
At some point, it’s going to become a class action lawsuit.
$12k each on two cars. While the tech is great and I use it, I am on hardware 3 for both cars and feel Ive been left behind.
And I am willing to pay quite a few pretty pennies. I did actually, imagine that! The fact is that there is nothing stopping them from including an expensive outright purchase of the tech when you buy the car, *and* providing a subscription model for people that want that option. But they hyped a feature they couldn't provide and now they are locking those features behind a pay wall while at the same time trying to bide their time to get the people that bought it out right to sell and "upgrade". Nope. I'll keep this car until he is forced to either upgrade it, or give me my purchase cost back. Once again I tell him, get bent
Not being able to transfer it is also pretty shitty, say your car gets totalled after mar 31st, you want to buy another tesla but now you'll have to pay for a software license that you previously purchased.
I paid $2k to upgrade my EAP HW3 car a few years ago. I use it enough to appreciate it, but I’m pissed every time I hear about another major enhancement in HW4 and know that my still very new to me car won’t see them.
If you’re paying $8k (or in some cases $15k) for a trim upgrade, that’s a risk you take. Expensive cars have had this for the longest, it’s nothing new
That and the inconsistent speeds.
It sucks. I bought my car on the promise that HW3 would be capable of FSD. Now I’m told to buy a new car and I can’t transfer my fsd.
I paid for FSD for 8K on a 2018 Tesla Model 3 with lifetime supercharging. I’ve gotten my money’s worth off FSD. I’m driving this thing into the ground.
God I want that back. Current lane changing is so annoying and unnecessary. Oh yeah let’s leave the exit lane in a highway when the exit is in .4 miles but not actually go significantly faster than the car you are trying to pass
HW3 can’t handle it. HW3 cars may get FSD 13 but will never get 14 or beyond.
Yeah, zero chance they care when you’re on v12. They want feedback on the current version to dictate what to do in the next versions.
Yeah not sure if I need to report this to any type of complaint , they did not offer anything for their mistake a bit upset tbh
I bought a used M3 in 2022. It was a 2020 model. I waited for the upgrade that was promised until the offer to upgrade to a 2025 last June became too good. I took my FSD with me to the new car.
Me thinks he doth protest too much...
For me keeping it in chill solves that. Even standard isn’t bad. But that may be too slow for some.
Yes it's the victims fault, especially the earlier buyers in the mid-2010s before we really knew Elon 🙄
THIS 👆🏼… I did and feel the same way!
Want to hear mine? In May 2008 I wanted to put $60k of an inheritance on Netflix. My financial advisor told me not to and instead insisted on three $20k REIT's (Real Estate Investment Trusts), during a housing crash. Well I listened to him and lost most of it. I breaks my heart to see NFLX prices.
The internet sure has a way of getting people riled up.
Paid 5k for AP, then 2K during promotion to get FSD. FSD right now is so slow for me, cant keep up been using AP ever since.
Not without a retrofit.
I totally agree with you. I hate the excessive speeding.
My people! I would love to have that back. It made my commute way more enjoyable when I wasn’t constantly changing lanes , even on “chill” mode .
you know you can change the max amount that it will go, right? The default is an insane 40% over. EDIT: I don’t know why you are down voting me. They literally changed the default to 40%. I was sincerely asking if they knew that it was adjustable.
There are three settings that I want back (or at least to work as they used to): * **Minimal Lane Change** * **Use HOV Lanes** *that actually works* (even though I have that setting off it keeps trying to change into the HOV lane) * **Cruise control** that will try to maintain the speed I tell it to. If I tell it to go 50mph, I want to do everything it can to maintain 50mph (unless there is a good reason not to). These things used to work really well, but they've all been nerfed
Just wait two more weeks…
There are already lawsuits, that’s why he said they’re going to have to do it. But they’ll punt it for so long that only a few die hards will keep their old HW3 long enough to matter.
when i report things GROK just argues with me
He is intentionally stalling to keep that from ever happening
It goes to the server farm that teaches Grok to laugh like a real human… like all our other complaints about FSD pricing and features…. Sorry /rantdone I would love to have the granular speed control back and not Sleepy or Mad Max
What's your winter range
There are dozens of us!
Pretty salty. I'd pay to go back to v11 over v12. I want speed control back, or AT LEAST let me set the "lane change aggression" separately from the speed tendency. I want "mad max fast, but chill with lane changes". It fucking sucks the only option is "weave around and camp the left lane like a fucking Korean in Los Angeles, while still not going fast enough and getting passed on the right" or "drive like a Grandma from Indiana camping the right lane at 10 below the limit" and not much in between.
I drove an EV6 like 3-ish years ago when I was last car shopping and it was REALLY bad - scared the shit out of me. Hopefully it improved. Even a fairly mild turn, it would disable... like middle of the turn on the freeway. It made a pleasant little "bong" (and displayed small text that said something like "turn too sharp") and then just.... like... drove straight... on the middle of the turn on the freeway toward the median. Twice, I suddenly found myself driving straight off the edge of the highway at 60mph after not hearing the pleasant little chime it made and I felt like it wasn't ready to use on the freeway. I only drove it for 3 days and I felt like if I was even slightly inattentive, I'd be one of those memorial crosses on the side of the highway right now.
On my local freeway, the speed limit is 55 and traffic goes 67.... and chill goes 52. Going 15mph under the speed of even the big rigs and rusty old vans is super sketchy and uncomfortable.
no, they are pushing toward full autonomy. They want the software to drive... not the driver to set the speed and change lanes and kinda/sorta have the software doing some driving, but only as much as the driver wants.
yeah, chill is like 5mph under the limit and at least 15mph below the speed of traffic for me. That's like... road hazard material. I prefer to see the hazards in front of me, not constantly being tailgated and passed aggressively.
Maybe I'm getting this wrong, lol. Is the free autopilot using the legacy stack or the FSD stack? Probably the former, the issue with the legacy stack is that it doesn't work on a lot of roads. I think I really just want that "Nav on Autopilot" button back, a way to disable auto lane changing (without confirmation), or just an update that makes lane changing a lot smarter. Cuz like seriously, having to stop my car from merging into merge lanes daily is super frustrating. Just fucking go straight! And for the love of god, stop changing lanes away from the exit within a fucking mile of said exit! It's getting embarrassing using autopilot in public these days...
Switching to “Chill” basically removes all lane changes for me.
Another fucking scam. Just like in 2019 when it was it will be fully autonomous and able to drive without a human in the car within one year. If we had a functional government he would be sued into giving refunds and fined for false advertising. But we don't.
I don't entirely disagree that Tesla won't fulfill this promise because I think Elon will keep kicking this problem down the road as long as he can to wait us out. I do disagree that it's due to the number of HW3 cars on the road, though. Straight from Elon's mouth, not that many people outright bought FSD on the HW3 cars.
Same here. No goddamn way I’m going to “transfer” it and then lose any claim to an upgrade.
If I'm honest .. as a general rule and as someone that works in tech, I generally don't trust software from Asia .. for a range of reasons .. but I've been pleasantly surprised with the Santa Fe. It's one of those applications that if it's not perfect even a few times, it'll destroy confidence. Autopilot in the early days used to phantom brake at overpasses .. resulted in a couple of road rage incidents where me and my car were fully deserving recipients. It's no joke.
EU HW3 Here. My M3LR with still useless FSD will be driven till it falls apart. They have to act and do something with us HW3 users, and that is not free transfers. While they upgrade the Hw3 to whatever it'll be, they should IMO update the MCU.
I live in Florida and North Carolina so my winter driving is little to none.
https://x.com/tslaming/status/2012390276208447805?s=46
Bought it for €7K back in 2018. I am getting it, or I get refunded. I bought a promise and I want it delivered. Simple. No way I'm just donating money to the world's richest person in the world. I'm not going to let this pass easily.
I'm in Australia and purchased last year when it was priced at $11k vs $149pm subscription. Slightly different in Australia as we have tax options to us when buying cars to offset our income. So I purchased on a novated lease with a 37.5% balloon to buy car at end of lease including full running costs, I'm also in 48% tax bracket as I earn over the $180k threshold. So, i purchased with my lease and got 10% GST back, bringing price to $10,000. Tesla had a sale on where if I purchased with the car, I got $3,450 off the price of FSD, and then i get 48% back from NV. So the $11k became $3,400 or price of 23 months subscription. So in my opinion, I got a bargain even if I can't transfer it.
European Tesla HW3 owner here, waiting for anything to replace our aging highway/autobahn stack that won‘t even do automatic lane changes any more. Sorry, what? It drives 40% faster that allowed by default? Tesla has certainly gone a long way attempting to get away with everything since they were forced to actually stop the car at a STOP sign. 40% over would not just get you a speeding ticket over here, you‘d be in danger of losing your license.
Don't worry, the HW4 folks will suffer the same fate.
Not keeping promise, stock up 20%
It’s the same here. I immediately changed the setting back to 10%. Now if it would just actually maintain that speed. I miss the way it was like 2 years ago. It drove like a robot following the rules. It was so much better.
I bought the middle tier upgrade and will not spend the $2k to get FSD. HW3 has hit its ceiling and FSD isn’t good enough. I’ll stick it out here until hw5 is ready and then mag e I’ll upgrade
That alone won’t do it. Also need the upgraded camera package
Twice at $10,000 in Australia. First on model 3 then on model Y as no transfer at the time. On hardware 3 now still waiting for even basic FSD and the upgrade that Elon promised
It reduces the number of parameters the hardware can do by 50%, and it still doesn’t remove processing limitation and the lack of instructions HW4 added to the processor that are required to run the new models and they still haven’t found a solution for that. It’s not happening on HW3
I’m in a similar boat. I bought my 2017 model x used in 2020 from Tesla. I bought it specifically for FSD and paid more for the car than any car I’d ever bought before then and since then. Now in 2026, my car is approaching a decade old and I don’t know how the hell the full FSD (if it ever comes out) will be retrofitted to my car. I’m also already a decade old on battery life, so waiting any longer and my 235mi battery is going to be at 200 soon and give me real world mileage in the 140-150s. I’m thinking about going to an arbitrator to get some money back for false advertising.
What features are you referring to?
It’s ok but it doesn’t keep up with traffic sometimes and hangs in the right lane instead of middle on the 3 lane highways. Then I’m constantly dealing with on-ramp mergers.
Software is not going to fix the issue of missing cameras, loower resolution, etc. They spoke about being able to string along the life of hardware 3 a little bit longer because of things like this that it will never be capable of what the modern stack you can do.
Yeah, for years I report everything. The problem is half the time, when it has to do with the lane change, and you've cancelled and taken over, you get a vehicle departing lane to control immediately beeps as a false positive. And then, while you're trying to record the message to report, the radio or music starts blasting, because Tesla doesn't know how to communicate between their functions, and the function that tells the radio to mute for the beeps, then tells it to unmute, even though it's already been muted by the function that has you reporting the message. This kind of Tesla's software team is not talking to each other and passing variables happens in several instances and it's been like this way for three to four years very frustrating. The fact that they can't program the vehicle departing lane take control immediately, false positives to stop happening when the turn signal is on, is just ridiculous - they can't pass along the variable that the turn signal is on from FSD when you cancel it and are no longer on FSD.
Exactly. I’d pay $8k for FSD with minimal lane change and $0 without. Expensive checkbox! Now without autopilot I won’t buy another Tesla. Never thought I’d say that as it’s by far the best car I’ve ever owned the past 8 years.
Except this particular feature was never actually delivered on. It would be like paying for expensive trim and then five years into owning the car, they still hadn't actually given it to you
I had FSD on my 2019 model 3. Traded that in for a 21 model Y no FSD for like $4k (covid used price time). Literally never regret it, don’t miss it, never gonna buy it, I only use auto pilot if there’s barely anyone on the road. I had way too many phantom braking episodes to ever trust it and the camera only system in the Y never made me feel comfortable. I refuse the free trials.
Let me transfere it to a HW5 car in the future and I'm fine.
$10k. Sold it, we’re out
I purchased my 22MS used. It had Fsd on it already original owner paid 12k. I’m happy with it. I did have a loaner for a couple days that had HW4 it’s great! But I’m fine with HW3.
> HW3 had considerably higher sales Isn't that why they push buybacks, FSD-Transfers and now a subscription-only model? The smaller the HW3 fleet is and gets, because still you absolutely _can_ buy FSD on HW3, the smaller the amount of retrofits is. This new patent might allow v14-lite on HW3, but not full unsupervised, atleast i cannot imagine it will. Back when I ordered my M3LR I did a "order poll" in the german TFF Forum, and while its a small sample size of 950 Orders in 2021, the result is that _only_ 32 picked the FSD option. Granted we were promised FSD for multiple years with no real show, and only in the last month with the european demos we have a real chance of getting it. I don't think that the active HW3 Fleet that also has a **bought** FSD package is that big. Elon/Tesla do have the full-data on how many HW3s are on the roads with FSD bought and I think they are well aware of the possible costs.
I hate class action lawsuits. Some law firm I've never heard of gets $200,000,000, and I get a coupon for $15 off my next purchase of FSD.
EAP is perfect for me on road trips.
But i bought my 2015 with the promise future of FSD 🥺
Why should current ownership of the vehicle matter? You paid for it, it was never delivered. Once they start moving ahead with upgrades it verifies the claim “all vehicles are capable of full self driving” becomes false… if you paid for FSD at all and didn’t receive it, you should be a part of the class action.
I saw Tesla disclosed a patent for a novel way of efficiently handling large numbers on older processors. Seemed like it was a way of breathing new life into the older HW3 and would have clues be useful when HW4 becomes the old HW. An interesting speculation was that HW3 actually has two professors and they’ve used the second one for backup/training and I’m hearing speculation that they’d put that to use working with the main processor and forgo a backup/shadow mode.
I technically did. I bought used from Tesla when FSD was 15k and my car had it. Little sad on the hw3 updates.
His new comp plan is tied to FSD subscriptions, not purchases.
I got it for a song when people were up in arms about them porting over the majority of EAP into FSD (rightly so) and they offered the upgrade at a huge discount. Needless to say, if I paid full price with hardly anything to show for it, I would be fuming.
Wife bought hw4, waiting for when Elon crawls back to lidar and does hw5 or something.
You’d think they would do training stuff on the dashcam footage. Wonder if they do on vehicle processing and send some data back to a data center.
"Coming soon! In 2034."
He won't need to. HW4 has been absolutely incredible lately.
You used to be able to adjust the max FSD over speed percentage but that setting is no longer available on my car which is on FSD v14.2.2.3. Now the only thing you can do is choose between their preconfigured profiles.
Oh wow. That’s beyond stupid. It chooses to speed way too much. If I can’t control the max speed I can’t use it. I’m not risking a ticket because of it.
And if they’re like Disney, once you accept the $15 you can never sue them or their affiliates for any reason in the future.
Cars with comparable acceleration like Lambos, they’ll have $10k for upgraded seats or colored stitching in the interior decor, Tesla is unique that they offer software as an upgrade. BMW did their seat warmers as a sub which was crazy tho
Cars with comparable acceleration like Lambos, they’ll have $10k for upgraded seats or colored stitching in the interior decor, Tesla is unique that they offer software as an upgrade. BMW did their seat warmers as a sub which was crazy tho
Sure, but you’re paying for the development costs directly, it’s similar to buying stock except the return on investment isn’t your shares going up, it’s your car driving itself, which they do
That’s the worst part of FSD by far. It’s downright embarrassing sometimes. If I turned the blinker on to put it in the lane that I want it in…stay there.
The maximum number of features for HW3 has been reached, resulting in limited upgrades. Despite my investment in the product, I am being informed that I have a limited time to transfer to another vehicle. This situation has diminished my enthusiasm for the technology. It would be beneficial if the company could retain its customers.
My 2016 model S has FSD available for purchase for $2k. Should I buy it?
Bought the early promise of FSD in June 2018, got free supercharging for life, and free premium connectivity for my LR M3P for the early committment. Now at 113Kmiles, used 4MW of supercharging last year. I'll buy a new battery if I have to, just to force Elon to pony up when he finally announces FSD (UNsupervised).
Got mine included as part of the Launch Series Model Y. And I use it everyday. It’s getting exponentially better (already better than most drivers in Montreal)
I’m wondering if AI5 will be designed to retro with HW3 for those of us few remaining with vehicles at that point.
I got a m3 long range of 2019 with 260000km still going strong but thinking of going to the lawyer, i dont see it received till year, and i will probably be above 300 000 km, crazy is that i proposed a fsd transfer but they refuse… 😅
It'll 'never' happen, at least not in my cars lifetime unless I hold on just to be stubborn (and deservedly so).
Back in the day, I figured the high price was a hedge on Tesla's part to handle hardware upgrades if needed. Turns out I was thinking too well of Tesla. It was just for them to pocket, along with our data collected for free, and then abandon HW3 owners on FSD v12.
Well, I think the fine print was that you’d get it eventually, when it was developed etc. If you no longer own the car, the defense is “you didn’t wait long enough.” At a certain time, that becomes moot because you can’t have been expected to wait 15 years. But 5 years is reasonable, etc. I’m fine with how long it’s taken up until now—but now my vehicle is being held out of required updates due to their refusal to replace the hardware required.
This would be much smaller in scope, though. “If you bought meat at Walmart…” is going to have an absolutely massive class splitting the money. FSD buyers for vehicles on HW2/HW3 will be much, much smaller.
Don't worry y'all you'll get HW4 upgrade when the Roadster releases...../s
Hate to say it, I think that’s what he wants…. Imagine if there were only new teslas on the road. Some of yall have to do your duty and hold the line for the sake of the company’s future lol
What's missed here is that for this person and myself with a 21 myp, the only way to buy fsd at that time was with the package, as subscriptions didn't exist yet. If fsd finally comes to our car once the car is practically dead, it doesn't mean all is good, as we made a financial decision when the ceo claimed it was going to be released "by the end of the year"
The previous leader of my car bought FSD, and I appreciate him for it. But now I think I have to keep it forever because I don't want to buy a new car.
It's a lot more involved than that, but yeah... it absolutely will (could, if implemented) breath new life into HW3.
Agreed, I wasn’t going to go into the details but it’s the only hope for us HW3 owners.
Right. I’m fine with waiting when the product is in development. I’m not fine with waiting when the product is developed and moving into refinement. Get me my fucking autopilot that I paid 10k for. Upgrade my car if you have to. Get that shit going. I 100% expect to be part of a class action. And I 100% expect I’ll get 7-8 bucks in 15 years.
Never did. Already paid a lot for the car as is.
Purchased at $6k. Bummed that I haven’t gotten updates in a couple of years but I’ve gotten my $6k out of it for sure (100k miles all across the US over the last 6.5 years)
There IS a way around it.... just so you know.
Me too 👊😎
I’ve got a ‘21 Model S with HW3. With it I bought FSD for $10k. I’m now running v.12.6.4 and it’s perfectly fine. Do I wish I could get HW4 and FSD 14 for my car? Of course. Still, I believe I got my money’s worth.
[I paid 6k for it in 2019](https://i.imgur.com/7GxD9bp.png). If I had subscribed I would have paid ~$7128 by now. While it sucks that they took away minimal lane change, it is basically autonomous for 95% of my drives and has been for the past couple of years. Before that, the stopping at lights and stop signs was my "good enough" point. I'm fine with intervening to make a turn myself, and I'll never trust it even at an "unsupervised" level. Even if we never get the HW4+ upgrade, I'm pretty happy with the purchase, although it was better with the previous version in my opinion. Never getting a new car either. I have free supercharging, Raven drivetrain, 100kwh battery, and FSD - You will have to pry this from by cold dead hands. If it does get damaged, I'll figure out how to repair it without insurance to ensure no salvage title.
We collectively need to do something about it. Way too many owners are total fan boys and apologists.
Let’s just say you keep your car for 7 years that’s about the same cost. ( as long as he doesn’t raise the price 😂)
You can still sue if they do that lmao, dragging it out makes it harder for them later
I did the same, but at least in my neighborhood FSD is fully unsafe on HW3. It drives down the middle of the road and the speed is all over the place. It also has decided there is a stop sign in a random location there isn't one. It's unusable. I fully do not understand how people have used it for road trips. I guess they have a better experience just freeway driving?
I wonder if it'll end up being HW5 instead. I'm not sure HW4 is enough yet either though certainly much better.
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Yeah, I'm not necessarily expecting him to go to lidar, but I'm not sure if they can get to level 5 without doing something about camera blinding, condensation, snow, etc. Granted, maybe hw4 is better but even regular autopilot isn't a given on hw3 car because the cameras tend to get obscured by water and glare.
I mean, my car has 100k miles and I don't drive a ton. I'm sure many have more. If they offered me a free car off lease with 36k miles in the same colors I can't see myself complaining about it.
Agree, but for me half the time on hw3 it won't even drive at my max setting. The other half of the time I need to reduce the max setting because it goes too fast. Just drive the speed I set! Sure, I get adjusting the setting if the speed limit changes, but it doesn't really stick to it even if there isn't a car ahead of me.
Exactly. If I set the max to 80 I can count on chill to go 60 in a 70.
It makes zero sense to buy FSD outright at $8,000+, with subscription available. Unless one plans to own the car for 81 months, it is a direct loss. I can't imagine most people hold their Teslas that long. For those who bought it during the hopium era, when there was absolutely no FSD available, let it be a lesson. A bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush. Doesn't matter what Tesla said they were gonna have, you guys paid up on vaporware. Sucks, but is what it is.
But the thing is that some of this hw3 cars are only 2 years old or so. I mean why would you get rid of a perfectly good car so quickly
It's soooo easy, you'll be upset you didn't think of it! I wish i could share, but I'm too afraid of getting sued or catch a case. Once what I did gets out, it will be ruined!
I didn’t buy it since the only two features I liked was auto park and auto lane change on highway. Wish they sold it for like $500 or added it for free in a update
I bought mine way back in 2018 at $3K and have seen the improvements over the years. It is way better today than it was but it still needs adjustments.
When was the last time you used it? The middle of the road thing sounds like a camera calibration issue.
Still on EAP on my 2018 Model 3. I find it intently better than FSD on my wife’s 2021 Model Y.
It’ll be really difficult for him to go to lidar now. Would have to change the entire architecture of the fault tree for FSD’s software. It would cost them way too much money.
I’m in the same boat as you (except we bought a barely used Tesla that had eap) and then with the price drop we ended up upgrading. I also am hoping for a free transfer deal. We have been talking about it and the moment they do that, we will end up getting a newer Y. If they ever do it.
There can’t be a class action lawsuit because Tesla has a binding arbitration clause because most people didn’t follow the steps to opt out of arbitration when they put the deposit down on the car. As soon as I put the deposit and got the VIN I sent the letter to opt out. The government may have to step in and prosecute the company for false advertising and demand Tesla to refund the money.
Same here. And I’m in Europe so I don’t even have FSD so far. I feel so scammed
The point may not be to get rid of ALL the cars, but the longer he waits, the more that age out without FSD transferability.
Going to ride my 2021 MY into the ground until/or something else makes sense. I’ve never loved & hated a product so much.
A few months? We did try and recalibrate the camera a few times. It seemed ok on the freeway. I'm not sure what it is about the local roads that upset it, but it didn't fix the problem
Ditto
I used to have a lot of off highway phantom braking, but it has all but disappeared in the last year or so. It seems like people have varying degrees of success with HW3. I wonder if it is location dependent.
Is it a 2018 model 3 performance?
i bought hw3 2023/4...might be the last hw3 cars.. I bought it because he said hw3 should be sufficient for years as hw4 was redundant....sad for myself
Let’s hope they fix this. Speeds are a huge issue. Mine too goes far under and over. But, my biggest gripe, by far, is school zones as it completely ignores school speed limits. Beyond dangerous.
people keep betting against tesla and keep losing. at some point you have to accept that maybe the market knows something the critics dont.
the market keeps underestimating the vertical integration advantage. manufacturing efficiency compounds just like software does.
As I understand it, the patent shows a different way to do the AI math. Basically they found a way to use addition instead of multiplication. It's easier and faster so a puny, old HW3 could do the job. To me it sounds like basic research stuff that takes years to develop into actual products. Other rumors say the physical size of HW4 is too big to fit in the HW3 space. HW5 is smaller but draws too much power and can't use HW3 cameras.
HW5 draws way more power. They'll have to rewrite the car.
How in the hell did i get down voted because I dont want to go up against Elon's Billion+ dollars or his legal team? I make a nice penny sure..... but not that damn nice! Some of yall are ridiculous! I told you it's obvious as the light of day!
I have a model X
I paid for a car, with certain features on the invoice. It doesn't matter if the features come from hardware or software. They have no right to remove a feature from my car. That is, I believe, called theft. What if a company like Ford, for example, decided they want to remove you vehicle's radio, without your consent - how would that not be theft?
Tesla will add more AI farms and use the increased power for Grok to solve this issue. This issue or come out with another way to appease the hw3 crowd. I paid 6k in 2018 for hw2.5 and another 2k in 2023 for a hw3 upgrade. I used fsd some 5% in total.
Yeah because you were going to sure over that issue yourself. Consider whatever you get from a class action found money. If you don’t like it, opt out and sue on your own. The legal fee thing is generally just BS that companies are using to manipulate you into th8nkign the world would be better without class actions.
100%, same in FL. anything 5MPH over they can ticket you. It got crazy annoying once they switched to that percentage offset thing. That and it flat out ignores certain areas. There's one stretch that I always have to override as even though it knows it's 25mph, it insists on going 38 with the 10% offset. Only fix is to set offset to 0% and then manually tick the speed up if you want.
You are talking about autopilot which still allows you to manually adjust the speed using the scroll wheel. FSD does not let you adjust the maximum speed, you can only select their pre-defined profiles which just have names(Sloth, Chill, Standard, Hurry, Mad Max) there is no user accessible information about how these profiles are defined os the ability to adjust them.
I paid 10k for FSD on a 2021 M3. Transfered it to a 2023 MY (HW4) and it's been great. Would need to drive it until 2029 for it to be "worth it" if the monthly subscription price stays at $99/month. But regardless, I use it everyday. Just debating whether I should take advantage of the transfer option (I think they're ending the option in March?) because I'm interested in the new Juniper refresh....but that would be a stupid thing for me to do financially.
Im on FSD 12.x as I've got a 2023 HW3, so you can still set max.
Hardware 3 model x from 2017… my simple commute to work it’s been great so far. Still considering putting up 8k for the model y because who knows what that future subscription cost will be….
Pretty sure it's been announced that AI5 is going to be in new cars late this year
FSD sucks, have driven HW2.5-4 with all the various big releases. Ended up going back to EAP. If you have software after they merged the stacks with neural networks, good luck. Personally would never buy any Tesla built without USS, the emulated software builds give false detections, jerks the car dozens of times per drive. True USS with EAP is the golden standard.
6000 zero FSD features except jerky attempts and constant jumps out of the carpool lane. F U Tesla!!
Looks like they are shipping 4.5 now https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-hardware-4-5-spotted-in-new-model-y-triggers-speculation/
A base model Corolla has better lane keep and adaptive cruise control.
My only issue with the Santa Fe lane keep is that if you are in the right lane on the highway, it sometimes tries to follow the exit ramp instead of staying on the highway.
My problem with all of this is that for HW3 owners, FSD version 12.6 is significantly worse than 12.3.6, with the exception of the fact that 12.6 includes auto park and summon. Auto park is a great feature that I use daily, but I rarely use summon. 12.6 is almost unusable on secondary and tertiary roads. It often wants to drive at speeds of 6-12 mph on roads with speed limits of 25 mph. It sometimes stops at green lights. It has major lane changing problems (puts on a signal to change lanes and then never does). It comes to an intersection with multiple turn and straight lanes and weaves back and forth like a drunk driver trying to decide on a lane. On my normal route to work, it moves to the left lane as it approaches my exit on the right, causing me to miss the exit if I do not engage. For the right turn into my neighborhood, it ignores the right turn lane and cuts across it to turn right. I rarely can drive more than 1 mile without an intervention of some sort. I used to use FSD close to 100% of my drive time. Now I rarely use it. So I feel like I have an option that cost me $12,000 that I now almost never use. It would be great to get to unsupervised FSD, but I would be happy if they could just get it back to 12.3.6 driving.
Well that’s not true and you know it
What feature did you pay for that was listed on the factory invoice/sticker that was removed?
I think they are referring to autopilot, but I'm not sure that it's been removed yet, or if it will be ever. If Tesla gets ownership of the car via a trade, they will likely remove it before reselling.
If you ever take the time to carefully read most end user license agreements for software, including media like movies on DVD, you'll find that you have never "owned" any software. Rather you have purchased the right to use the software. People often think they own a copy of Microsoft Excel, for example. What they own is an agreement to use Microsoft's software. I haven't read the EULA for autopilot, but I would be surprised if it was much different regarding what the end user owns or doesn't own.
Then refunds with interest to everyone who missed out after purchasing.
I'm not sure what isn't as "easily as before." You go into settings, autopilot settings, select "autosteer" instead of FSD, and you get traditional Autopilot with "navigate on autopilot" including the single/double action lever pull to activate TACC alone (single) or TACC+autosteer together (double pull). It's all still there. You just have to choose not to use FSD.
Then maybe we should be getting free camera upgrades as well. Elon said my car had everything it needed, when I bought it in 2018. If that's wrong, then it's on him to fix it.
This is the consensus. Problem is, will Tesla do the 'right thing' or will class action lawsuits have anything left after lawyers get done for the consumers?
They could all become insurance claims...simple update to the car...
15K? No. But I did purchase it and later transferred it, so I don't have HW3 headaches. I expect that Tesla will do their damnedest to fit FSD into HW3, which may require some retrofits which are basically covered by the expense of having bought the system in the first place. If they can't, they'll be on the hook for more expensive retrofits, but 15K buys a lot of that.
You can swap it to a 100 pack, once the 75 pack is done.
FYI you can have 3rd party shops replace battery packs without much fuss. One software redeploy from the center screen and it will run with a battery from another model3. Just has to be the same awd or rwd. Might be an option if the rest of the car is fine and the battery is getting to be the issue.
Interesting. I wonder how much a 3rd party shop or battery would cost me.
I looked into that, pretty sure it's not possible. There's no firmware to install for that model because it never existed (2WD 100kwh pack). The largest 2WD model S that was made was a 90.
I have a HW4 car but after they announced they were going to switch to subscription only I’ve decided to cancel it and stick to auto steer until they come out with actual FSD… whenever that happens.
What did 4mw get you for a badge? top 15% user?
yes for resale. unicorns are going up.
The badge says “Mega Charger”, 4.506MWh. I’m not finding any report of percentile rank in the stuff they sent me in the app.
I was over 1.2MW and it my badge said top 25% supercharger
>Getting home drunk from the bar is worth every penny . Yeah, that's why you should just Uber
Seriously I wish I could downgrade. It drives like an ADHD teen with main character syndrome.
https://youtu.be/Cllwecvp2hk It's possible
I ended up buying it
I was at $12,000 …….
I genuinely feel bad for those who paid for FSD….
Not if you own an S or X, discontinuing very soon, so Elon aint doing nothing.
And now the S/X are dead. Good luck with that.
why two more weeks? what happens in 2 weeks?
Or...AutoPilot !
What was the offer to upgrade? I have seen lots of emails about taking FSD and I'd assumed the strategy would be to encourage people to upgrade to a new car and knock out 2 birds with 1 transaction.
My post was regarding an upgrade from HW3 to HW4 in an older M3. Elon promised it, but it was never offered. During last summer, Tesla offered a very advantageous offer to upgrade to a new car. I took them up on this offer and they allowed me to bring my full self driving to the new car. I hope that answers your question. Let me know if it does not.
It seems to me the problem (or excuse) is that perhaps they think you're car won't be capable with FSD even with the hardware upgrade
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