What’s your take on FSD going subscription only

Yet another subscription. Never really owning anything in this life

Homeboy is trying to maximize revenue, one off purchases are never worth it for companies if you can milk it as a live service. Dude's capitalism maxing.

Lolllllllllllllllll hell no

Allowing people to buy it or subscribing would be maximizing revenue considering the subscription takes nearly 7 years to get to the same revenue as outright buying, which is longer than the average person keeps their car

i mean if you get a new car before the FULL price of FSD then you end up saving money?

It's cheaper for people who switch cars every couple of years, and with time competition will bring down the cost. But still, I'd prefer to be able to just purchase it outright.

I give it 3 months, they change the pricing structure so often...

It never made sense to buy it at $8k+ since it would take 80 months of non stop subscription to break even. It sucks to not “own” FSD, but mathematically I never understood why someone would want to buy it outright when the math is difficult to justify.

Interesting how marketing doesn't seem to be involved and the CEO is posting shit about product on social media (which not all Tesla owners follow). This doesn't seem very professional.

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Tesla promised to retrofit legacy FSD owners for free once they achieve FSD Unsupervised. This move cuts down on retrofit liabilities.

They did the math where it doesn't make sense to them. If FSD stays with the car, that's a loss on the used market when they can be milking it instead. Do you think he's doing it for your benefit?

If they lower it to $50, I will keep subscribing every month. If it is still $100, then I will only subscribe when I do a long road trips

Sounds like when they reach a certain point, they're going to start increasing prices...

because it's presented as a binary option, almost always omitting the 3rd option, not having FSD at all. but its very much like a drug, once you experience it, life/driving without it is mundane and not as enjoyable, and much of a Tesla is diminished without having the FSD stack.

Idk why they’re doing it, it makes no sense revenue wise. The likelihood of a car having the subscription for 80 consecutive months is incredibly low, and it makes no sense to remove the option to buy outright unless they’re going to increase the price of the subscription

He didn’t say what year. Is this Elon time? Either way kind of means nothing. Who is spending $8000 on FSD when you know the hardware today will be useless by the time you break even. Did people not learn from HW3 yet? Do hope to see an annual plan option though. Monthly charge is obnoxious

How is it corporate greed vs paying an up front cost for a car that most people sell before it hits eight years old which would be the break even cost. You're saving more money on the subscription model.

I didn't say that's why they're doing it, they're likely doing it as it provides a more predictable income and allows some corporate mumbo jumbo of banking future revenue to boost the value of the business or some such, mixed with getting people to keep paying after they switch cars. But the maths is pretty simple. If it costs $8k to buy outright vs $1k per year to rent, and you change cars every 3 years and have to re-buy the software, then you're saving money by subscribing.

Wake me up when they decide to lower the price for older HW models on the older branches of FSD

I don't even pay the $25/month for Super Cruise in my bolt... the 3 year "freebie" ran out last year, and while it's nice on longer trips across Texas, I genuinely don't miss or care about it. Granted FSD can do more but if I'm paying $1k/year for a subscription service, I'd also expect it to take full responsibility for injuries or damage from any mistakes it makes too. (i know this will never happen) People wised up a while back with subscription services for streaming shows/movies. Getting dinged for $15/month each from 8 different things you want? People largely said "nah" Eventually automakers will push down that route and try to justify all these little things you have to pay for every 30 days. GM is currently pushing down this path hard and is also why I'm not buying anything from them going forward. :) Ideally model Y in my future in a year or two.

I could see it making sense if the FSD purchase carried through to whatever Tesla you drive, according to the account login, instead of the VIN

Tbf they aren’t going to do this either.

Saw this coming a mile away

yup achieving “full autonomy” would never happen on a legal standpoint. it will always be beta or else Tesla would have to be responsible for any and all accidents with fsd unsupervised, which we know for certain they would never do

What they've been selling of late is "Supervised" which to me was a way of saying "if you buy this, we don't promise this will ever get an unsupervised FSD with your current car's tech" Feels like retrofit will be for anyone who bought before they added the supervised weasel word

In early 2025, Musk admitted HW3 needs upgrading for full FSD and promised free retrofits for FSD buyers. Tesla may be forced to do this via a lawsuit. It would be hard for Tesla to win that lawsuit if Elon already conceded free upgrades

They’re doing it because nobody is spending $8K for it.

Yeah if they had free transfers to new teslas after permanent purchase of FSD, id buy it but paying 8k for a service limited to 1 vehicle makes zero sense.

By the time "full FSD" ever happens, HW3 vehicles will likely be 10 years old. My M3 from 2018 is still waiting...

I bought my 21 MSP used and it came with lifetime FSD and didn't pay that much more than a similar one without FSD.

Upfront purchase of FSD, which has varied from $15,000 to $8000, is still very much under development, and I suspect the upfront sell rate of FSD is probably as bad as Cyperthud. sales My guess is that Tesla data shows that they're making more money with subscriptions, even if the subscription for a given user isn't consistent. Perhaps it's also a way of limiting liability by not having to contend with hype vs reality of "FSD" Heck, if the "S" prices decrease by 8k I might actually buy one <:)

I would buy FSD outright now as well if it were transferable. Bonus if it included unsupervised. Current price is a steal for lifetime transferrable service…one can only dream

I have a 2019 with only 34,000 miles on it. I’ll be one of the lucky few who get the upgrade.

My thought as well. It has gotten so good over the past year. It will be adopted in mass by elderly if the capability becomes an available subscription for other car brands as well. Leaning into full subscription based pricing paves the way for that brand adoption. Driving without it now feels like the stone age

They’ve done it before

It's simpler than that. Selling a subscription you're paying month to month they can change the terms at will to be effective next month. Selling a product has the constraints of when it was sold is much more of a pain. "Your car will do FSD!" "Sorry your car no longer meets the requirements for a subscription, you must upgrade" EDIT: terrible typos

Agreed. And also consider those who bought it before the extra word and transferred it to another car. They’re out of the equation

What if they bumped it to $200 a month

Lol, I paid for it and have never received it. This would have ensured I bought a different car.

As long as there is continued support with ever improving software I don’t really mind it.

Would be lit if they made the sub tied to the account and not the car.

Two reasons - plan to own the car for at least 7 years - monthly price could increase within that time. Maybe 3… - betting on a transfer deal when buying their next Tesla.

I believe that's called thinning the herd. Users will fall off the end and limit the cost of the "free" hardware upgrades, which, by Musk's own admission, is quite expensive.

They should have a supervised level 2 FSD tier of $50 per month. Then level 3 FSD where you could work or watch films would be worth $100 per month. And if they ever get to actually FSD that can be a robotaxi, who knows how much they could charge for that.

I’ve paid $10,000 and I’m pissed off

A completely terrible idea. I was looking forward to getting a new model now that FSD is finally getting close to being ready, but no way am I getting a Tesla now as I want a full self driving system that I actually own, not one where I have to pay a ton of money to Tesla. Also what's the point of Robotaxi, are they not going to even sell the vehicles to consumers at all? Wasn't the whole point that you could buy a Robotaxi and "rent it out" to the network and make money with it? If you're paying a monthly fee to Tesla you're not going to be making any money renting it out.

Can I get a refund and not pay the subscription and not have FSD??

I thought they were discontinuing Autopilot development? I always thought the goal was to eventually throw FSD into every Tesla by default? So in a few years, if you don’t subscribe to FSD, does your Tesla just have the worst driver assistance package compared to every other vehicle in the price segment?

I sold a few BTC when it hit $1K. C'est la vie.

Some of us don’t change cars every 3 years and this fucks us

And then there’s me who paid $10,000 outright for autopilot in 2021🤡

Yay my X's value just went up

This is to boost  FSD sales .

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Perfect!

they better upgrade hardware to keep up with FSD advancements then. Speaking from a hardware 3 owner, still waiting for that promised hardward upgrade Elon eluded to last year.

FWIW I bought mine in 2019ish for 2k

I tend to use any car I buy until it starts falling apart, at the minimum. Paying a single price up front would absolutely be cheaper, and would also be immune from the inevitable monthly price increases this is going to cause.

You don’t drive at all lol I have a 2021 model Y with 93,000 miles

As of now you can transfer it

Everything will be subscription in the future. You won't even be able to buy a tesla one day I'm sure.

$1m of SaaS (reoccurring payment) revenue increases company valuation by approximately $10m. $1m of on off revenue increases company valuation by approximately $2m. So your $3k over 3 years increase company valuation by $30k whereas your $8k on time payment increases company value by $16k. Which is better for the share price and Musks personal wealth ?

I actually hate this idea

This is a short-term play. Deep down the automobile industry is about moving units not features. Eventually the rest of the industry is going to include full self-driving as a standard feature. If Tesla continues to to charge for it, that would put them at a disadvantage. I personally would not buy a Tesla with a monthly subscription for full self-driving when I could get a different car that already has it included for free. The only advantage that Tesla has in the automobile market is that they have "iPhone" like appeal. When the rest of the automakers catch up, Tesla will no longer be special.

It makes no sense to pay $8k for FSD that is tied to the vehicle. It made even less sense before when you did it when FSD did not work, or currently in Europe.

That shit better not crash my car if I'm paying monthly for it.

so was the FSD software he already took the money for...

> Do you think he's doing it for your benefit? It doesn't matter *why* they are doing it. What should matter to you is your wallet. It is possible for both you to pay less and for Tesla to get more.

Elon went from open sourcing patents to this....

I bought it because I planned to keep the car 10 years (on year 6 now) and I wanted to lock Tesla into a promise that they had to at least partially fulfil at some point or refund me.... I thought I might get most of the intermediate steps along the way as well... but Intel HW3 users have started to be left behind like HW2/2.5, especially those of us in RHD markets

Promising it with words vs actually having it in your contract when you bought the car.

How did you get it with FSD? When I bought mine, FSD was non transferrable

I don’t understand how anyone would be comfortable doing that. Putting a lot of faith in technology when there are so many unknown factors at play

The only reason I agree with it is that it is ABSOLUTE BULLCRAP that I paid $10,000 for a software that DOES NOT TRANSFER to another car (unless they are running a promotion). So IF I get another Tesla; I’ll be paying $1000 per year…even though I already paid $10,000 to have this feature?!

Buying fsd was always bad, risk wise. You could crash your car the next day and be out the money. And good luck getting insurance to cover it.

This guy thinks it’s getting cheaper. How naive can you be?

also in Europe?

It’s because of lawsuits about people dying

Not necessarily. There are huge barriers to entry for car companies. They have a big incentive not to fight one another on pricing of services like this. .

It's pretty simple maths. If you change your car every 3 years then $3k in subscription fees is cheaper than $8k in a one off payment, going by the current pricing. The thing that will keep prices down in the long run will be competition, so we'd better hope others pull their fingers out and start actually building systems with similar capability that keep Tesla honest.

I don’t know why anybody thought having fewer options would be a good thing for customers. No longer selling FSD means Tesla can increase revenue simply by raising FSD subscription fee, once FSD becomes good enough to justify the higher fee. Sure $99/month is cheap when buying costs $8k, but if the monthly fee climbs to $199, $299, etc later people will wish they had the option to buy at $8k, or even more. Tesla stopped selling used vehicles with FSD for cheap not long after HW4 started shipping. Most used Teslas with FSD these days come with HW3 because HW4 buyers have mostly opted for a subscription. HW4 with FSD is a rare breed and HW5 with FSD won’t even be a thing.

That’s not how the real world works. People drive their cars far longer than that. And new/second hand buyers will have additional monthly/yearly fees to contend with. It’s predatory at best, putting even more people in debt from monthly subscription spending and holding the feature ransom without being able to actually ‘own’ it. Also. Good luck in thinking the price of this service is going down ever. Competition in the EV market has blown up immensely over the last few years and yet Tesla’s pricing has only gone up while their quality went down. Again, don’t be naive.

It still makes zero sense even with transfers, because the vast majority of people don't stick with one car brand forever.

Was cruising in a BYD in the Bahamas, and you could watch YouTube while in motion. Humorously the car didn’t even have a self driving feature…just no nanny restrictions. It did have attention monitors though, so according to our driver it would nag you if you were STARING at the screen too long. I think even that WOULD have been possible here if the car hadn’t been advertised to “drive itself”…

I’ll believe it when I see it. And if it’s true… well I don’t buy subscriptions, so it wouldn’t be an option for me anymore.

Please remember back to the subscription prices you used to pay for Netflix, Disney+ and Prime in the beginning. Now look at your bill now. People saying "oh for X the price is okay" you won't be saying this for long. This is the starting price. It will only go up from here...

I like it, but I think it would be nicer to have both options. I don’t need FSD every day, but for a vacation it would be nice to have it. And if I ever feel like I want it all the time, I’d prefer to buy it.

I paid full price for it in 2018 with the promise it would work in 2019. It’s 2026 and it still doesn’t work. At least now I can choose not to pay the subscription, I guess, and feel better about having wasted 8k 8 years ago.

Next step is: tiers! FSD + FSD Pro! Only for $199 a month for all features like bannish. Offcourse FSD owners get a discount and only pay $99 per month

Some people drive their cars for far longer, but they're not typically the people who can drop $8k up front on FSD. Tesla have not been increasing their prices whilst reducing their quality - you may have the opinion but it is not objective fact unless you can provide evidence to back your position. The base price of the Model Y has fallen from $60k when first introduced to $43k in 2023, to $40k today. With inflation that's the equivalent of the price being $37.5k in 2023, $5.5k cheaper over two and a bit years. So on what basis do you think competition is not forcing Tesla to push their prices down?

What are they going to do for the thousands and thousands of people they sold it to up-front around the world that will never be able to support it?

It was nice to buy a used car from a third party that had the purchase. It was like 1-2k extra

That went full circle. OP criticised Elons Cars on Elons Social Platform and saw an advert for Elons Internet

At 79 years old I would never pay to buy FSD. But I will rent while it takes me where I need to go when I want to go there. My grouchy 75-year old wife won’t do that.

I love the ability to cancel and start fsd anytime I want. I typically only subscribe when we have a long drive (3+ hours) coming up, then enjoy it until the end of the 30 day period. Cancel.

I think it makes a TON of sense. If Tesla had made the FSD purchase associated with the account then it would be nice but since it's on a per-car basis it has always been of no use to me. As a subscription is much better in this case.

No it doesn’t. Changing legal terms does not pave the way for other companies to adopt it, the biggest hurdle is integration and actually getting another company to want to license it. not legalese.  It helps limit the liability they’ve had for years selling a product that did t do what they promised.

RiP to people who paid 8k for this bs

Not worth it before, much less worth it after this.

I hate the subscription world we live in

Don't like subs. But my opinion on FSD is worthless as FSD isn't available yet where I live. What i do want are autopilot/autosteer improvements lol.

Will the subscription form also be available in europe?

So they took away enhanced autopilot and are forcing people into a subscription. The Tesla I fell I. Love with dies a little more every day . SMH

>increasing prices... Guaranteed to happen. Every sub creeps to in price.

And still no one will buy it.

It better not crash your car either way, monthly sub or 8k outright, lmao.

It's like, you know, a company is always making choices that maximize profit. They'll do the thing that will squeeze the most amount of money out of you.

I'm not paying for a subscription for something that was built into my car. If I buy my car I buy what my car comes with.

I would have purchased it years ago if it was account wide and went with the user. This…is the opposite of that. No thanks!

This would help that, don’t you think?

I think he wanted to ‘open license’ not open source. Very different.

By the time every other manufacturer is including a competent self driving in their cars, Elon will be making so much money selling robots he won’t care.

It was purchased from Tesla and it was listed as already having FSD.

It has always been the logical way to sell it because it is software that needs/gets regular significant updating. When Tesla needed capital fast, selling it was helpful. But Tesla doesn’t need it and so building regular revenue stream that will add up to more money the longer the Tesla car is used is a better business model. It also reduces the hassle of making the FSD transferable since most new cars are purchased by people that are going to sell them in less than five years. Now the new owner can simply subscribe or not subscribe.

I subscribe anyhow and if they annual is cheaper than monthly, then better for me.

I despise this decision its antiamerican.

You're delusional if you think this price will DECREASE over time. 🤣

Tesla Glass subscription already went up!

Today, yes. But that’s a promotion. When you buy it the fine print says it’s not transferable, or at least that has been the case for majority of buyers. No, people don’t often stick with one brand which is where fsd that follows the person rather than the car would be smart on Teslas part. It gives a bit of incentive and encourages brand loyalty as well as makes it easier for current owners to buy new teslas. I nearly bought fsd years ago and only didn’t because my cc declined the purchase for fraud. If I had done that I would still be on my first Tesla and would only ever consider an upgrade with a promotion such as the one they have now.

It'll never happen. Lawsuits will take a decade. Most people like me would have given up and "forced" to upgrade their cars.

The subscription is a relatively new thing. So it did used to "make sense". There wasn't a subscription option.

Lower that price to 50 bucks a month and I’m in… unfortunately I’m still not willing to pay 100 dollars a month for my car to sometimes drive me places in a way. I’m to cheap to pay 80 dollars a month for YouTubeTV! lol I will continue to subscribe when I have a long trip and cancel the month after

It's not competition. It's the stigma of owning something associated with Musk that is driving the prices down.

Love that they have an annual option. Absolutely hate monthly payments.

Rivian is working on a $2500 lifetime or $50 per month fee for their FSD competitor. I’m a Tesla guy through and through, so I don’t know what I care about that at all, other than realizing competition in the market is what maintains prices for consumers. Literally nothing else does. They won’t be able to make $100 a month work forever as more and more manufacturers figure out people want these features and add them to their cars. You’ll probably have a ton of manufacturers keep the price at $100 a month until one company gets the idea they can win a whole bunch of customers by dropping it, going for volume rather than raw price. Then it’s over. The market does a good job regulating this kind of thing over time.

Or you could buy it, use FSD for years, and save a ton vs paying for a subscription (especially if you bought it early...I paid 3k). How often do your total your cars that you consider it a bad risk?

I bought it outright when I bought my model 3 in 2024. Because of how I am paid at my job, it makes sense to pay a lot once for something because I get paid in lump sums at differing intervals. My plan is to just drive the car til the wheels fall off. In that sense, it has been great for me. Paid for it. Got it out of the way. Been using it and upgrading since version 12 of FSD. It feels unreal that I get all this increased technology for “free” - which is what it feels like now. I dislike the idea that if I buy another Tesla, and I’m not in a promotional window to transfer it to that Tesla, I’m stuck “paying forever” for something.

Sounds like your credit card had prudent protection.

Tesla’s are super fun to drive, so not subscribing to it doesn’t really bother me. Now on road trips? Absolutely worth it.

The only reason they started offering it as an up-front package in the first place was to improve margins and cash flow in a period where things were really tight for Tesla. From a consumer basis the subscription has always made more sense. If FSD is currently worth at least $99/mo to you you can pay it. If it isn't worth that, stop paying. Pre-paying for 10 years worth of FSD subscriptions based on Tesla/Elon promises of when FSD will really be unsupervised full-self-driving has been a bad bet for many owners so far. On Tesla's side, if they do actually reach the benchmark of a valuable unsupervised FSD product, being able to show ongoing subscription revenue in return will be good for their financials.

I lease teslas, under no circumstance is buying outright logical in any sense We’re talking about $3600 vs 8 grand lmfao

I mean that’s kinda what enhanced autopilot is, just a lobotomized FSD

That’s my problem with HW3 at this point. What are the subscribers even paying for? Every other subscription has continual improvements or added content for your monthly fee. This could eventually be HW4’s fate as well. When the software stalls, subscriptions make no sense. You could make an argument for when FSD is perfected that it is continuously providing a service. But we are not there yet.

It would pretty much guarantee I wouldn't buy a tesla for my next car. I have FSD now, but if a subscription was my only option on a new car I'd be too annoyed to even consider Tesla anymore.

"By moving to a subscription-only model, Tesla is admitting that FSD is a service, not an asset attached to the car. It enables Tesla to detach itself from a promise that it consistently failed to deliver." BINGO!

You really have to do some mental gymnastic to call a premium feature, totally optional for any driver "predatory" and putting people in debt. And this is coming from somebody that opted out of FSD in full because I don't think its worth it in Europe and I don't even think EAP is worth half of that. Also Tesla is very competitive in price/performance in their segment and I think it has been an industry consensus that quality has been going up especially with refreshes, so not really sure. Sure others have been doing good after years of putting out utter total garbage (hello VW). And some are really cool (hello Renault), but they are for sure more expensive for what they offer today. Not half a year ago I was buying a car and anything else ended up more expensive if you didn't take a base configuration and in my market the financing from Tesla was just insane in comparison (0-2% interest vs 4-7% for main competitors). But yea if you say cars 20-30% more expensive than model y have gotten really good - yep, they did. And I can't wait to finally see them in the used market once they get out of company leasings. Then, Tesla will have a problem. Because todays used market car models from likes of VW you are still struggling with dead end entertainment systems (no more upgrades) and lacking features like preconditioning the battery - as I said, utter garbage of EVs they put out.

You think my HW3 car that I paid for FSD outright will go up in value after this?

At the $100/mo or less, the subscription is the only option that has made sense when the purchase option was $8-12K.

One step closer to just giving it away for free, which it always should have been done.

If it’s linked to my profile, no matter which eligible Tesla I drive, I will buy it today.

There are many times between when you bought and right now that they have allowed FSD transfers

The math is easy for me… I kept my previous car for 10 years and plan to keep my Tesla that long too. $8k was cheaper than 120 months at $100, which would be $12,000. And that assumes they don’t raise subscription price for 10 years, but I think they almost certainly will at some point. But for people who lease or buy new cars as often as they buy new phones, then yeah, purchasing didn’t make sense.

It’s a risk. Not every accident is your fault or can be avoided. If tomorrow I drop 6k and then get t boned at a stoplight or rear ended I’m out the money. I’d only lose money if I keep the car longer than 5 years. As I said it’s a risk. Tesla could also increase the sub price tomorrow to $200. You gotta weigh the pros and cons. If they let me buy fsd and transfer it to any of my cars I’d buy it in a second.

The amount of drivers(a good 50%) I see drive while staring at their phones not using FSD has me pretty concerned someone will hit me within the next few years.

I want a refund.

Every day I see another reason not to buy one of these cars

Not worth it full price, not worth it monthly.

You don’t even need to subscribe for road trips because highways is where autopilot excels

You underestimate the number of middle class who lease their cars.

Realistically this will probably only impact a very small number of people. I’d imagine the vast majority of FSD users pay monthly for it, especially as a lot of people lease Tesla’s.

Glad I bought this when I got my car last year

Cool! I think more people will buy ct if this comes with it for free

Try 10k for me, 15k for some others...

This was always the plan. "You will own nothing and be happy". The enshittification of ownership marches on.

Traditionally yes but I can see a world where that changes. Look at phones now. Very few people bounce between iOS and android. Prior to smartphones with no platforms, there was very little brand loyalty. Not that I would want it to happen, but with the right approach by the industry, particular Tesla, they can incentivize the loyalty through their platform/cars in the same way. Plus cars are so expensive and becoming so tech-focused, you’d almost want to be able to easily migrate and move your profile/upgrades/apps to a new car seamlessly

Transfer is not guaranteed. Otherwise I would’ve bought it when they started $8000 a few years back. Now I wouldn’t buy it even transfer is guaranteed. They most likely will lower the subscription fees. It would take a lifetime to break even. Even they don’t lower the subscription fee. I would just use that $8000 to buy stock or index funds.

I'm hoping they're coming out with FSD tied to your account pricing next. This announcement is to get the last few FSD purchases by people with FOMO. I'm willing to pay $8k for lifetime FSD when it is unsupervised and tied to my account.

Sounds like Elon is trying to push me into a Rivian R2

10 million FSD subscriptions is 1 of the tranches for his new comp package. Make sense.

if they liked FSD.. they would probably stick with them for a while. no competition atm

It always starts cheaper. then the price goes up. Happened to every SaaS I know of.

1. As a customer, you pay to train the FSD model, which is then further monetized by Tesla. 🤑 2. Shouldn’t Tesla offer this feature for free until Full Self-Driving is actually what it means? 🤔

Something interesting I noticed in the app is the $8k FSD says "FSD (Supervised)", what are the changes when that day of finally FSD (Unsupervised) is launched, anyone who purchased FSD (Supervised) won't get the FSD (Unsupervised)?

I have an Hw3 car I bought in 2019. Paid 6000 at the time for full self drive. I was unaware my hardware would become out of date which would remove the “unlimited lifetime” updates. I guess maybe I should have expected that? But I am assuming it’s along those lines they are having a problem selling the service outright when inevitably it ends at some point, they can’t put a finger on when.

I’d sub it for $15 a month. Tesla would make a killing. Everyone would be subscribing

Expensive

Does this include the luxe packages.

Should be pay-per-mile with a cap anyways

My thought has always been that at some point it would be included with every Tesla vehicle purchase due to competition. I bought it for my Cyberbeast but figured it would be the only time I ever would because the next one I buy it would be included or a subscription.

Make the subscription follow my account then

His next trillion dollar pay package depends on reaching a goal of FSD subscriptions

HATE it. I dont want subscriptions on my car

They should bundle it with premium connectivity and special charging rates too.

I’d buy if it was tied to my Tesla account so FSD would be available on any car I drive. They know that tying it to a single car is a bad investment, especially if someone hits your car and totals it.

I agree with that logic but realistically there's no car maker on the horizon making any of meaningful progress towards consumer FSD the way that Tesla has (at least in the U.S.). Unsupervised geofenced Highway does not impress. Tesla is the only car company pushing features and Full Self Driving when most other companies are coming up with ways to rip consumers off instead of simply making a product that would earn them profits.

I think people seriously don't understand what it means to move for a subscription only. Lifetime FSD was tied to the VIN of the car, which means that it would have factored in the resale price and no matter who owned the car they had it. With a sub only service you cannot add FSD to the resale value of the car to recoup some of the cost. You can pay 4-5 years for it and the money will just go to tesla. the sub is fine for people who just want to casually try it for a short period of time. was having both options not doable? tesla's already had low resale value...

$49.99 they will sell like hot cakes !! $100 is just a bit much unless it achieves level 4?

I own my car or I don’t. I would never rent something on a car that I theoretically owned.

It's definitely cheaper for me. I only subscribe to it when going on road trips. It saves me a ton of money vs buying outright.

Yes, likely. But creating stickiness with quality of service rather than contractual obligations would always be the preferred route...

Autopilot is nice, but it's not FSD nice.

FYI - FSD topped out at $15,000 in 2022, then dropped to $12,000 and now is $8,000. Subscription price started at $199 a month and is now $99 a month. So not too unrealistic to say it may go down. I think competition will impact the price going forward and $100 per month may be the sweet spot where it’s worth getting. It’s difficult to say what the future will be.

Although it’s a different kind of product if any of you happen to work in music or entertainment production you know that pro tools and other daws have started a buy or subscribe option where you could either buy a permanent license to that version of the software or you can subscribe for a monthly fee to always be able to upgrade for as long as you keep subscribing. I don’t know if they are able to do it but if they plan on expanding the capabilities of FSD then I can see a monthly subscription being alright but buyers should have the option to purchase the current version to add to their order and forfeit their ability to claim any major updates besides bug fixes.

I actually prefer autopilot on highways. I sometimes feel l like I have to babysit FSD, the way it constantly is trying to change lanes and overtake cars. With autopilot I can just cruise.

Fair, but I find the most conservative settings in FSD a good balance between cruising while also being able to automatically get around really slow cars or trucks.

Yeah, that is actually really funny it declined for fraud.

He must really hate Valentine's day lol

Almost exactly the same here - just under 34,000 miles. I do note that range has decreased over time, so it’s really a question of how long the battery lasts.

[deleted]

Scam.

At some point, HW3 gets a free upgrade or they officially abandon it and face a class action lawsuit

To be fair $15k to 12k to 8k and now $99/mo....prices decreasing over time

My faith that Tesla will suffer consequences for the grift is very low.

Never understood why they don’t make FSD transferable to other cars. Would be tough for people to buy another brand knowing they lose FSD.

I see that all the time too and drive accordingly, but it's not just getting hit but totalling your car that would make you lose FSD. Otherwise you get your car repaired and you still have the FSD that you paid for.

Unless they are making the subscription drastically cheaper I won't be buying another Tesla unless they also make it replace my insurance payments. If they have European FSD ready to go live and want to replace autosteer with cheap FSD, I could see a $30 a month sub making sense with premium connectivity bundled. $20 per month for near the entire fleet is much better than $100 a month from 10 percent.

Ugh same

They knew better than I did!

Indeed - I share your lack of optimism

I don't pay for FSD but I have zero intentions of paying a recurring fee monthly unless it is tied to Tesla insurance premiums that are lower than what I can find on the open market. I do enjoy FSD but $100 a month is asinine!

I think factoring inflation and improvement to FSD capabilities that would likely be reflected in the subscription price. I think a more reasonable monthly price looking over a long period is at least $150. So in 54 months I think the $8,000 would pay off. So if you think you're going to keep your car for 5 years, I think it's worth it. Otherwise put $8,000 into the s&p 500

they sold me fsd for 3k, it was very good value. when people are talking about 8k fsd it is not true and many got much cheaper. hate subscription i want to own a car not subscribe to it

TBH, it's financially smarter. But I hate subscriptions. I have 2021 Model SS and paid $8K for mine. TBH, I didn't use FSD much for the 2-3 years since it was so terrible.

As a new FSD driver, I think the subscription is a better value prop. I only keep my cars 7-8 years, so I’d rather have that extra $8k on hand to invest, and pay the $99.

Smart move. Best$99 a month I spend. I hate driving.

Do we think this will also affect the model S and X luxe package?

I mean if that’s the case all he has to do is make it free. Does it say it has to be profitable?

If by some miracle of god tesla achieves unsupervised, they will crank it to 400$+ month easily

That would be a feature, not a subscription.

if they get rid of the godawful driver profiles it would fix everything. I'm sick of standard or whatever being limited to 5mph over and hurry going as much as 15-18 over the speed limit. Let me set my speed dammit, i loved that.

Im scared they will fluctuate/increase prices if it ever goes completely hands free/no attention needed… but hoping competition/China will force them to lower prices and/or reintroduce buying it if it ever goes below $8k

Once it reaches critical mass, yes. FSD is far from that at this point.

Tesla would probably do great business if they would sell FSD on a per trip basis. I don't need it going around town, but for the occasional long-distance drive, I would pay 20 bucks for 8 hours of it.

Is there any guarantee that people who bought it on a permanent basis won't have it switched to a subscription later on with no recourse?

The subscription model is bound to happen sooner or later and one time purchase model will be sunset. It’s not a surprise to me.

From what I understand, battery degradation is not linear. It seems to decrease more steeply in the earlier years, then, not so much.

they may stop FSD transfer. You have to keep your car for eight years to break even.

I save a bunch of money by just driving my car

I got a model 3 loaner which has fsd and honestly I’m pretty impressed. My car is 2018 LR 3 which almost 80k miles. I can buy fsd for $2k because I have EAP. Should I do it? I do plan on keeping this car as long as possible. They told me they would upgrade my cameras as well.

I have hw3 with FSD trial and the thing never maintains speed, always keeps going below my set limit, in the left lane, with cars behind. That does not work in TX and would infuriate most people. If I set at 75, it would gradually drop down to 70. Does it behave the same for everyone else? And HW4? I've already set max speed, etc correctly so that's not the issue. Maybe FSD's goal is to also conserve battery by going at a lower speed???

What about those of us that have lifetime FSD on HW3? (Purchased 2022 used with FSD already on it because the dealership didn't realize it) I want to be upgraded to HW4 as promised, but I'm feeling gaslit because it seems more likely that will never happen. Maybe some good news for me is my car's resale value goes up because it will be the only way that people can still get lifetime FSD.

Gives them room to raise the price for more advanced versions/features. Tiers. Maybe.

AutoPilot will change lanes with a signal, right? Or maybe that's only because I have FSD. Anyway, FSD is terrible in traffic now, constantly changing lanes for no good reason so I just use AutoPilot, though it's annoying with the 5 mph over speed limit on non-limited access highways.

‘Unfortunately due to rising cost pressures, the war in Cuba and the next 1 trillion Elon package we’re taking the unfortunate decision to increase the FSD monthly cost to $500’

They made a mistake by selling it. They lose some of that money back on computer upgrades, and are likely hurting badly knowing that HW3 will not advance to unsupervised. Subscription makes more business sense.

it is confirmed it is $1k a year?

Fine...but as a subscription any repairs needed are also covered.

No, that was a product of “enhanced” autopilot. That’s the subscription they needed. It’s worth $10/month to not have to disconnect when switching lanes. When I was subscribed (a year ago) I found I preferred the enhanced autopilot features mostly. FSD was nice, but it was relatively unpredictable, and still clearly has no forward thinking ability…it’s reactionary, which makes for a less smooth and enjoyable ride…I find the limitations of autopilot make it far more useful for my daily commute.

$20/mo and I’m in ….aka I’m never going to subscribe

Here come the yearly price increases!

Once the subscription model blew up in San Fran, this felt inevitable. At those prices, it stopped making sense purchasing it outright. It also being linked to the car, and not your tesla account, was another massive deterrent. I'd have happily paid the full FSD price if it meant I could carry it with me from vehicle to vehicle.

Totally agreed for normal driving, which is why I don't pay for it normally. But even my non-techie wife used FSD for her solo drive from Chicago to Pittsburgh and back. She said it made the drive so much easier.

Make more sense if you don't use it, cancel and sign up when you need to. Save more money than buying outright and I don't think people own Tesla that long to justify buying it outright.

Just gives me another reason not to get it. I don’t want another endless subscription.

Enshittification

My take is Elon is just trying to get to that trilly faster. People either buy in now and drop that cash, or b pay for life..... wonder what will happen with FSD transfer offers later on.

That’s one way to tank the stock.

Despite having FSD my car has been on Autopilot for over a year because FSD does some DUMB stuff on the interstate and I got tired of it.

I will keep my 2021 MY for 20 years if it means I can force them to upgrade it like they promised

https://preview.redd.it/hxh7cpxbkcdg1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2424b4fa7726020ad7b3576b5cf8426257b6a7a So if I purchase at this price, $2750, what will it give in regards to hardware. I have 2017 MS mcu1 with enhanced AP

How's that gonna work when you no longer own the vehicle? Let's say the vehicle is end of life and no longer worth to repair. Do you need to keep it on your property just to wait until they'll allow transfer to a new vehicle?

I don’t get why from a financials standpoint. It’s closing the door to upfront rev rec for licenses sold. It’s harmless to leave it as an option

I think they finally figured out that the market for people to pay some large upfront cost is small but more people are likely to use it month to month (or annually). Better to get some $$ than nothing.

Yeah I feel like I’m fighting it the whole time. I’ll listen to podcasts on my way to work and when I’m using FSD I feel like I don’t remember anything from the podcast because I spent the whole drive fighting FSD. If autopilot had the lane change on blinker that would be perfect.

Now its 8000 upfront, 999 a year = 8 year. No one wants to own a tesla for that long anyway so it's cheaper and if you don't like it you cancel it

Europoor as well?

Any idea why he is doing it? Might it be low car sales volume? I think there is still doubt about reliability. But that should encourage lowering the price.

Didn't buy it, still won't subscribe to it. Come back to me when it's a third of the price and it's provably statistically 10x more safe than a human in a snowstorm in the mountains of Vermont on my 2021 Model 3. I have a feeling that will never happen.

I have a 2023 Model Y with HW3 and it still can't FULL self drive. I have to monitor it constantly. They said HW3 will be enough. It wasn't. Until it's Level 5 it's not FULL self driving, just driving with supervision. The whole car needs a hardware upgrade, it seems, and Tesla doesn't give a shit about their early adopters.

Sub only models are criminal.

same

Love it. Here in my country the only option is to buy it entirely which is a hefty sum (almost 10.000 usd) Now i hope i can subscribe if i need to use it for a long roadtrip as alternatively i would never get it due to the hefty price

Even more reasons not to buy a swasticar.

But why not keep both? Both options would make more sense, ie I don’t have 9k outright, but I would pay 99 bucks now and then 🤷🏼‍♂️

I literally made the decision yesterday to start subscribing instead of buying at 8K. The tipping point was that Insurance doesn't consistently pay you back if you total the car - so carrying $8K that could go away next month just seemed like a bad call. This just makes it easier to accept that I'm a subscriber. I would like to see them offer a discount for an annual subscription though..

It’s trash.

It was $200 just a couple years ago. It already reached critical mass and then came back down.

Current Autopilot is not FSD even in instances they’re performing the same basic action such as non-congested highway driving, and once you’ve had FSD for some time and go back to AP, you absolutely notice it. I mostly only use ACC because of it and I still get annoyed in some cases by how it brakes. I can’t imagine having a 2025+ Tesla now which disabled single-press ACC altogether, which is ridiculous. We really need an Autopilot 2.0 based on any recent FSD version 13.x or above for HW4 vehicles. Even if they offered a $1k upgrade fee for it, it would be worth it to me. Then again, less incentive to pay for FSD, so Tesla will stick with the shitty AP stack indefinitely.

That's just a higher price. I'm talking about the share of Tesla owners with FSD subscriptions. If FSD were widely adopted already, his pay package wouldn't be tethered to it.

It’s honestly better this way, FSD is always changing, and even when autonomy is solved they won’t just stop development. Now the problem of maintaining older hardware *cough* HW3 *cough* is negated.

You get about $3k back when selling the car with fsd to an individual buyer. So, theoretically, it only costs $5k. If I knew battery replacement would be more affordable in three years, I'd probably pay the $8k before Feb 14. I hate paying subscriptions and I LOVE the car. Just worried about the longterm investment with how expensive the batteries are.

It’s not worth 99 a month. Even in its current form.

I’m exhausted from all the subscriptions I have to manage.

He will have to balance between the 10m paid FSD subscriber goal and $400 billion EBITDA tier, so how he gets there is still balanced between the two. Too high of a cost, he loses subscribers, too low of a cost, he loses on his earnings goal required for his pay package. He also is targeting 20m vehicle deliveries, so that means a FSD subscriber goal of close to 50%.

Yeah I mean it's not an easy task. Unrealistic rewards come with unrealistic requirements.

$8000 is 6.7 years of monthly payments, assuming the price doesn't go down. I just had the free trial and I am a big fan, I miss being chauffeured around by my car. I am 70, retired, and don't drive much. I will get the subscription from time to time, especially for vacations.

Did you talk to your insurance? I asked my agent today if they would compensate for fsd. He said they would but maybe not the full $8k. Which is weird bc it's not like the software depreciates.

One day it’s going to have to be a free, mandatory safety feature. On all cars.

There's too way to look at this, 1. They're almost ready to launch self the full product, and they believe there's more profit to extracted by subscription model 2. They believe they're their (finally) 5-6 years out from rolling out that service and their looking for a way to bridge the gap with out having to support all the possible hardware upgrades on legacy equipment.

Let it go Let it go Elon can't sell it for crazy prices. Let him try to rent it. It's run . it's life

It’s a cash grab/ revenue booster. Cybertruck sales haven’t helped Tesla’s bottom line.

The real cost may be your life if it goes crazy.

It's overpriced either way so who cares. The latest version is by far the best it's ever been, but I still wouldn't pay $100 a month. Maybe $30-$40.

I mean, it took 7 years to pay off before. I lucked out and got a car with enhanced auto pilot and upgraded.

With Rivian under cutting them on FSD and Ford and GM offering it for a significant time trial included with the purchase of a new vehicle and still charging less than Tesla when said trial expires, it only makes sense for Tesla to switch to monthly service. Also, while it’s nice to have that big one time revenue pop, companies still prefer reoccurring revenue.

imo is screams "we need to plug a revenue hole"

imagine you bought it now and they call it fsd 1.0 and there is a fsd 2.0 with a new payment and higher monthly subscription.

Not surprised, and also not interested.

Love that there is a starlike add under it perfect placement

Since they won’t guarantee transferring, I’d be locked into Tesla for life if they had something like “FSD is $5k with a guarantee that it will be $2k on the next vehicle if you buy a new car before 11 years.” But they get way more for subscriptions (the bane of humanity).

The opposite, IMO. Other companies are coming close to feature parity. It will be a race to the bottom. Rivian is charging $50 for theirs, and they are supposed to have point to point FSD-like automation this year (and actually this year, journalists have been given rides in preview versions and reported it was very good).

Scare tactic to get people to buy it.

This presents a conundrum for HW3 owners. I would like to buy FSD outright, but only if they will eventually provide a complete unsupervised solution. The latest news from Tesla is that HW3 owners will get a FSD lite upgrade path, once it is solved. I have my car paid off so I am very interested in owning FSD outright, but with how vague they have left it, I don’t know that it would be a smart investment for me at this time. I didn’t purchase FSD when I bought the car because I see its current limitations and I don’t have a subscription now. It requires attention to the road. That is not full self driving. But if they solve it in the future, hell yeah I want that. If they made FSD unlocked for the account holder/transferable to all new car purchases, I would be more inclined to buy it now. Tesla sucks at these communications for the nuances that apply to various vehicle setups/mcu/hardware versions.

It’s $99/mo. That comes to $1,188 per year. It would take 6 years and 9 months for it to be over the $8,000 that buying FSD costs. So, if you plan to keep your Tesla for more than 6 years and 9 months, and plan to use FSD every day, then subscription is a ripoff. Otherwise, it’s actually saving you money.

And what consumer likes being stuck with one brand when a better option comes along, because they spent thousands on something they got little use out of.

Lower the monthly payment and I will subscribe in a heart beat. $50 a month and it would likely be hard for me to pass on it.

They might have to seeing Rivian announced their FSD sub at $50/mo.

There are so many things that don’t make sense here. But what stands out to me … is that all it takes is for a company like Ford, VW, BYD to offer FSD without a subscription…

I think yall should have bought jt

At least they did not put a subscription on the heater

I have it right now and I had better be able to transfer it if I ever upgrade my Tesla.

Wouldn't pay $99 for it now w/ a Intel Hw3.....knock that price down since we no longer get the latest and greatest.

I have a 2018 Model 3 with only 45K on it. I'm waiting for my free HW4 upgrade too.

So buy it then? (I already did)

Terrible idea. Glad I bought it outright when I got my M3P.

$99 is too much.

Why? It's not retroactive. They won't be offering outright sale of FSD on new vehicles going forward.

I enjoy doing metalworking.

You paid $10k on a bet that future software development would keep to Elon’s optimistic timelines. You knew what you were buying, right?

Was never going to buy it anyways for multiple reasons so its moot to me: \- Have HW3 so FSD would be the inferior version \- My MYP is over 5 years old now so the long term value of something stuck to it is not great \- Most likely jumping ship when the R3x comes out

RIP what? Now people just don't have the option anymore, but those who paid keep is as long as they keep their Tesla..

Better have some third party battery replacements lined up for that to happen. I wonder if it'll just get to a point where they just swap the last remaining vehicles for a newer (used) one.

HW3 will never get an upgrade. They're going to kick that can down the road as long as possible and then offer a discount off a new car or something.

That's pretty much the final nail in the coffin for never buying another Tesla for me. Two months to wait for a tire rotation at the Tesla shop 3 miles away put me on the fence.

It creates stickiness for Tesla. It’s a good thing for Tesla. That’s the point pauerplay was making. Obviously not as good for the consumer unless said consumer wants to stick with Tesla anyway.

Enhanced autopilot should be standard and included.

Make fsd permanently transferable for the current fsd owner, please, or until the subscription breaks even with the fsd package in months

Wake me up when it’s Unsupervised.

I recall making a post back when it was like 200 a month, that I'd be able to justify like 100 max. 200 was too much. Then a week later the price dropped and ive been paying monthly wver since. I even tried to cancel about a year ago...didnt make it two days and I resubbed. Im hooked.

Fine by me. I would never pay what they wanted. I still like driving but i also would pay for FSD if i was going to take a long roadtrip. Standard autopilot gets annoying with nagging and no auto lane changing.

I disagree. It nags too much. I just used it last night after using FSD for the last month. The FSD rarely ever did that too me unless i was trying to text.

For those that bought it, it should be lifetime or allow transfer to the next 3 vehicles. For those that haven't bought it, I actually think it's a good as it allows you to only get it when you need or want it without the huge outlay.

Here's the problem though, I don't necessarily want a newer vehicle with the newer styling. I like my car and the features it has (gear stalks, etc), I just want it to be FSD ready like they promised it already was when I bought the car.

That's part of Enhanced Autopilot which isn't purchasable anymore. If you subscribe to FSD though, you can have it change lanes with just the signal (keep it set to AP). I did that for a bit but it felt silly to pay for FSD just to do that, so I only do it on road trips.

Yeah I’d pay $1 a month for that.

My knee-jerk reaction was to hate it, as I hate software subscriptions. However, $8K will get you 6.7 years of use, so that's not so bad. If you buy $8k of Tesla stock, when you buy your car, you'll get a lot more, potentially decades if the stock does well.

It’s worth $0

So Elon has in his compensation package, total vehicle sales of 20m AND 10m of those 20m are subscribed to FSD. There is no way this software gets a 50% take rate at $100 a month. Either they shatter vehicle sales, the price goes down, or Elon misses his bonus.

Just paid the 2k to upgrade to FSD on the car. Have an appointment to update the hardware… Im too far in to not pay the rest and before to rent the rest. I have hopes for a grandfathered in program for the future when they need new cars sold.

Eventually FSD will become a commodity and they won’t be able to charge. May take a while but everyone will eventually catch up.

I don't see a need for FSD where I live.

This is the way. I agree

Screw FSD - I'm waiting for Optimus to chauffeur me around! /s

You would think if a car sucks, then you wouldn’t keep it for long. Tesla’s are so good that I don’t wanna keep it for long because I’m gonna want the newer model as soon as I could get it. If I paid the 8K price, and was unable to transfer, I would be sad. I like being able to pay for a month, cancel it for a little bit, and then renew

If Nvidia is legit any car may have it soon enough. This is currently Tesla secret sauce

S3xy buttons do that…. Recengages after a lane change

**There are two primary potential outcomes (and many possibilities in-between):** 1) FSD works great, so everyone subscribes, and hopefully Tesla makes a ton of money, accelerating FSD's progress even further. 2) FSD doesn't work for everyone, or enough people, and Tesla tracks cancellations along with disengagements to focus on skills or regions that need additional training or improvement. I can only hope this will increase profits (especially if FSD bulk purchases have stalled), although only Tesla and research firms can do the financial modeling and projections necessary to know for sure. On the other hand, perhaps Tesla simply wants more training data. They have a ton from shadow mode, but true FSD data is likely the most valuable. **Concerns:** Which hardware versions will FSD excel on? People could have potentially wildly different experiences and takes on FSD depending on specific HW model results. **Counter-points:** $100 is a no-brainer for Tesla's premium market so long as FSD is "good enough" - although we know Tesla is aiming for "basically perfect". Feedback has been mixed up until relatively recently, with only the very latest FSD versions being nearly universally praised. Hopefully this trend continues. **Final thought:** I am curious about how FSD with subscriptions aligns with the Robotaxi vision. It does make me question whether a "Tesla Model 2" should have received fuller attention instead. The customers, as opposed to Tesla, would pay for the fleet.

While I still think there should be two options, this isn't that bad; 1. Paying subscription means all vehicles get updated HW# when it releases (if not then subscription fee drastically drops) 2. A lot of people do not own their Teslas a lifetime.  This is sort of like the rent vs mortgage debate. Rent simply works for most people who want flexibility and lack of self maintenance.

I do think it's fair in this case since you can expect FSD to receive continual updates through the subscription lifespan, and $100 / mo is peanuts compared to the $6,000 - $8,000 needed upfront. You get to keep more of your money (time value of money), get to trial FSD, and receive continuous updates. It will take a full decade (when you consider time-value of money) before your subscription costs amount to more than an outright FSD purchase. In my humble opinion, it's an all-around win-win.

At some point it'll just get cheaper to "buy out" owners. FSD was never going to happen when you bought in 2021 (I also have a 2021), and it's not going to happen during the useful lifetime of a 2021 vehicle. I never bought it so I don't know the exact wording in the agreements, but I'd bet there are some weasel words in there that will limit Tesla's liability.

Price will meet demand. Demand will only exist if it's truly as good as Elon and Tesla want it to be. If it is, we'll truly be in our Robotaxi phase. I can understand the concerns, but I can't see myself having any serious complaints. Elon's talked about FSD becoming worth much more over time, but in my opinion, the largest price spikes will likely apply to those who use FSD as personal robotaxis - ex: by limiting FSD pricing tiers to a certain number of miles each month.

If you order now with the 8k for FSD, do you get it if the car won’t be delivered until after Feb 14?

Don’t care tbh, wish they would create a real 3 row vehicle but they’re doing their best to not be a car company anymore so whatever. Wall Street loves recurring revenue so good in that sense but otherwise idgaf, it’s more annoying than anything else really. Maybe would feel differently if cybercab was already out and FSD was unsupervised widely, but that’s just not how Tesla operates.

can i get my complete waste of 7k back?

The subscription was originally $200 wasn’t it?

I fucking hate that they removed the max speed limit for FSD so now it only uses profiles designed for California roadways that I can't configure. Standard is +5 which is generally too slow for my taste but probably the profile they designed for flyover states. Hurry will often push the speed up to +15 or more which will get you a fucking ticket in many locales in my region. For instance a couple of days ago on I was driving on a two lane highway using FSD 14.2.2.2 in Hurry mode, the car displayed the speed limit on the dash of 45mph from a previous town I had passed through but the roadway was actually 55mph. The car kept fucking speeding up up up and was up to 77mph before I switched the mode to Standard. That's 22mph over the speed limit. A speeding ticket at that speed would be $225, 6 points. I don't need that shit on my record because FSD is unconfigurable. I have a newer Tesla(with paid FSD), my wife has an older model 3 but hates FSD so there is no way we are upgrading her vehicle in the next month. I would fucking hate to pay an extra $1200 per year in vehicle software fees every year for a fully paid off car and feel like I was getting nickle and dimed by that shit. So our next new car probably won't be a Tesla.

Didnt they promise a fixed price to anyone who put a deposit on a Cybertruck?

No it doesn’t? The same number of people will have purchased FSD outright on their hardware 3 vehicles. It was never going to be offered for people paying a monthly charge. That wouldn’t make sense.

just wait to find someone who can hack the ECU to unlock FSD with no subscription cost.

I’m pissed. What doctor is ever going to write me a prescription for full self driving. I’m young and fit and look totally capable of driving myself.

How can he get 10 Million active subscribers is the big question? Dropping upfront buy makes some sense but I think a large number of the subscriptions are vacation travel alone.. FSD subscription is not a Netflix that I need every day for. 1200$ pa on top of Insurance and monthly payment for a car is a lot to spare. Many fans may not like the reality but, in truth one doesn't need FSD to do the daily 50 miles of commute to work and groceries. The competition is waking up. FSD is today and is good, but Rivian is coming up with something, NVdia is, Benz is so 100$ a month is not going to fly forever. To compare to a chauffeur, I still think it boils down to economics. One can't keep spending the money they can't afford just because a service is priced lower than an even unaffordable reality. I may sound illogical, but 100$ with a target of 10 million active subscribers in a period of 3 months is not happening. Try 30 to 40$ that's a different story all together. But that is a pill hard to digest or contemplate.

Ok cool, way to make sure I literally never buy your shit. Good job.

Step 1: give tesla money to drive a fast electric car Step 2: give them even more money to stop driving the car

Does that mean that everyone with hw3 will not definetely get the hw4 update, because otherwis,e how do you sell a much worse product for the same price

I have a feeling that some 1 likes the number Nein Nein Nein alittle too much at Tesla , Ja?

I'm fine paying monthly. I just wish I could apply it to a rental when traveling outside of the country.

Paying a minthly sub for a car you bought and own 100% is wild

I'm sorry, but FSD seems pretty pointless to me. It might be useful for the elderly or someone disabled, but not someone who is fully capable of driving themselves. I would think having to constantly monitor what the car is doing would be more work than actually driving yourself. Plus, with FSD, you're in even less control over your own safety. I think there are a lot of dangers about this feature that a lot of people aren't considering. It may even give people more of a reason to look at their phones while behind the wheel. I personally wouldn't want this feature, even if it were free.

Should be free

I have been working at home for 17 years. I am a huge tesla fan but i cant even justify buying the car for as little as i drive. I think the only way i would ever get FSD is on a per drive basis. If you put in a destination and it said, Sit back and relax and the car will drive you there for X dollars. And just pay on a per drive basis. Outside of that I dont think i would ever get my moneys worth out of either purchase option. I am personally just waiting for the robotaxis to be EVERYWHERE. I would likely just get rid of my car alltogether.

makes me feel like a fool, like Elon cheated me (or literally outsmarted me) by getting me to buy FSD at an exorbitant sum yet now I've gotten used to it and would rather have it than not -- it is understated how good it is to avoid the decision fatigue and muscle stress of driving (in the USA you must drive a LOT generally -- few places have public transit) thinking it will be irrelevant with the arrival of self-driving taxi in the next five years, depending on which administration is in power -- FSD is very nearly there now

IDC

The point of buying FSD outright is that you control the cost, unlike a subscription where you don’t control pricing. It’s just like Netflix, Spotify, and other streaming services. Prices go up, not down. That should sound familiar. Tesla has never really been about being cheap or purely efficient. It is a luxury car. Positioning it as cost effective just makes it easier to sell vs convincing people to not consume gas cars

Removing an option. This is only negative for consumers

Buy a different car. Tesla is dated styles and subscriptions is cringe

Does this affect the Model S and X, which come with FSD when bought new?

Well you could sue the other driver for it and recoup something.

Even if FSD were transferable the added value is not in FSD, it’s in the car supporting it. The value of the upfront FSD payment would depreciate just as the car would.

My reason is that, even though we didn't qualify for the federal break, my state has one capped at a certain vehicle price. At the time I bought a Model X, they offered a free hardware upgrade if you bought FSD, which did not count as part of the vehicle price. We wanted the captain's chairs, so it was actually *less* overall to buy FSD, get the state-level subsidy, and pick the 6-seat upgrade, than it would have been to not get FSD upfront. So it was like getting a $99/month subscription for free and getting a small discount on the 6 seat.

Unless one plans to keep the car for 8 years, you pay for term of ownership. 4-5 years max. Until the warranty runs out, max.  By then, everyone will have FSD and it will be free or a race to the bottom for subscribers.  Otherwise, $8k for 4-5 years worth of use vs $4-$5k for 4-5 years of use.

they're honestly just priming us up to not even owning the cars. they'll own the robotaxis and we'll just subscribe. in the beginning it will make sense because most cars sit idle for 70% of the ownership. Eventually once no one owns any cars and they've defunded public transit just like they did with PBS, then we'll be paying more to get around then when we owned our vehicles and drove ourselves.

Paying full price would be years before you reach that value monthly. By then you probably switched cars anyway

Why not get your money back? Via small claims. You were scammed.

I am not a big fan of subscription (or leasing) and avoid it if I can as It is not often worth it. But FSD was 7500€ in Europe (and not available yet) so if it becomes 100€/month, It will take 75 months of subscriptions to reach the full price. And when it becomes available here (or maybe if it becomes…), I don't think I'll take it for more than two months a year, so in my case, the subscription will be more than welcome.

This can’t be the first time you’re hearing of brand-specific walled gardens and ecosystems…right?

It was not worth buying. But it is also not worth subscribing to.

It could increase the value of the car in the long term. Current rate car looses $20k value after x years (not a doctor just a thought). In general if you keep the car for a minimum of 7 years you'll go through $8000 anyways for FSD. At the end of that cycle when it comes to reselling you may get an extra $3k-5k. Not a dollar saver if you just don't buy it anyways but it would likely increase the speed of selling the vehicle and interest a lot of user car buyers. Not to mention would be the "look a Tesla with a fully paid FSD something you can't get anymore" would hype up people alone to at least consider it a rarity that no one would at that point be able to obtain.

It currently comes included with the Model S, so I wonder if they'll lower the price of the car or just include a year of FSD with it, or neither.

Doesn’t really make sense to me to remove the option.

It’s a mistake.

People who have hardware 3 should be getting a discount on FSD like 20 bucks off

I paid extra for this feature in 2016 and i am still only in beta mode here bro

I will never get rid of my 2017 ModelX P100D. It came with everything included for life, and the monthly costs make it untenable for me to consider replacing it with another Tesla

It’s terrible

Honestly i used to love Tesla, but it has too many flaws and now they going sub only for FSD. It’s time to officially ditch Tesla and get something better

I have a lifetime FSD on my model Y because it came with it used. I’d never buy FSD again other than a subscription basis. I only use it on the highway during long trips. So maybe 2-3 times a year. I’d likely just sub for the month, go on my road trip, and then cancel it until the next time. I think Tesla is banking on this move generating more revenue. But I don’t think anyone there is doing the math or running the numbers. Lifetime FSD is like $8k and the subscription is $99 a month or about $1200 a year. It would take seven years to equal that. I don’t think many people are buying new Tesla’s and holding them for 7+ years. On the flip side the lifetime FSD was one of the best wah they could make used Teslas more attractive from Tesla. You go to a used car dealer you’d get a better deal than buying used from Tesla. Except Tesla would activate all the features like FSD. That’s why I bought one. Even the idea of transferring the lifetime FSD is a way to help convince people to trade up their car and generate more sales.

I have a Tesla and paid for the FSD. Please tell me I don't have to sub right?

I am not sure subscription FSD is working any better. I use it occasionally. I find it only useful for a long trip. $100 mo still too high for wide spread uptake or I think we would see this reported in quarterly numbers. I really feel Tesla has missed how to capitalize on FAD for revenue

Most people were definitely misled into thinking they were buying something more. Don’t victim blame

My take. They are doing this as in the long run it will be more profitable for Tesla and part of Musks pay package goals are hitting subscription goals. I am surprised and pleased that they actually decreased the subscription price if you purchase it for the year. I am concerned that for those that own it outright they will eventually cut off the ability to transfer it to a new car. There is also the concern that they now can adjust the price higher whenever they want. However as other manufacturers get self driving programs this may actually add competition and cause prices to decrease. This for sure will get other manufacturers to seriously move to a subscription model once they see the income potential.

You’re the idiot who bought a Tesla.

This is why. https://preview.redd.it/psgnx4j84jdg1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9225679b328caae5389c434315225139a163352

They need $9 for a 24 hour of FSD

Part of Elon’s pay package is reaching 1 million monthly subs so makes sense

If transfer is included, the.ln pay once and be done. However, if it is not, you can't get that money if something happens and you don't have that car. I would rather pay for a month and use it when going for a long road trip, otherwise, don't pay upfront. $8k would last you 8 years and you will not keep car for that long. Just put $8k in higher interest savings account and use it from there when you want to use it.

Does anyone know if this applies to Europe as well?

Yeah, I would do the same. It is too costly for $100/monthly.

As somebody who paid for it and lost it because they wouldn't transfer it, I won't pay for it again unless it's $50 a month including internet. Are feeding them the data they need to improve it, why am I paying a premium (twice) to improve their product.

One subscription, begets another. A FSD subscription is nonsense, especially when the car is fully capable of it. How long until you have tiered memberships for charge stations that throttle speeds based on your membership tier?

The $8k price to buy it out outright never made any sense to me anyway. $100/mo breaks even for me at about 3-4 Waymo rides a month, so it's a no brainer.

It’s good. Cheaper for the consumer, and better for shareholders and the company’s revenue. Most people don’t drive a car for 8 years, so $999 a year means you’d have to drive it for 8 years to have the same cost as the subscription. Thus, the subscription is cheaper

Elon lies all the time. This is another one

They should just make it available for profile switching. Especially being that all new cars come with the capability.

I have EAP in my car, the incentive to upgrade to FSD is low because FSD only adds non-freeway roads to EAP. Besides did purchase FSD on my previous vehicle and barely used it since it was crap on HW2 and HW3. (Purchased 12/16 build model S with AP2 and purchased FSD at $15k but never really worked even after upgrading to MCU2/HW3). My current model S is also HW3 so don’t expect any performance improvement since FSD is really for HW4 & later models. Elon’s lie list is long since he promised full unsupervised FSD in 2016, a new roadster by 2019, that the supercharger network would not be a profit center, and that Tesla will not take away features of your vehicle.

How's this going to work if someone purchases a Cybercab? Don't pay the sub, car is a useless brick? I feel like the first adopters of FSD are gonna get bent over a barrel, especially all of the HW3 owners.

Personally, it's sad as a consumer which limits the "option" as I plan to purchase $8K FSD in the future when Ai 5 (HW5) or Ai 6 is out. Certainly Ai 5 would probably be all installed on the Cybercab. Now, this announcement only gives us 1 month to make a decision to rush into buying a Tesla with FSD. Which is still only a HW4. It might not be unsupervised FSD, it might just be able to do supervised FSD, even if it can be transferable once. Now, does this HW4 capable of FSD joining the robotaxi fleet? We are not sure. If the current HW4 can totally be unsupervised FSD and can be a Robotaxi, that just mean the business model is simple, after 8 years, the FSD cost is gone, and the Robotaxi profit is higher after that. With a $99/month subscription, you'll have to make sure your Robotaxi profit be at least > $99/month to even make sense. Another angle to look into this announcement. If big corporation knew that FSD for $8K can be unsupervised, why wouldn't those corporation buy 100,000 units of model 3 or model Y's now and run it as a taxi ride company? Wouldn't that "compete" with Tesla own fleet of Cybercab? Now the only FSD one can own is a future Cybercab that probably will not have steering wheels and pedals, then why would a retail consumer need to buy one? It might be cheaper to just hail a ride and pay for the fees. No need to pay for EV registration fees which could go between 400 to 500 per year, no need to pay for tires, no need to install NEMA 14-50 socket. The only disadvantage is probably when one goes on a field trip, go camping, to interstate travel. So in a way, I understand why Elon is saying that just to "protect" their own Cybercab debut so to "force" people to use it, buy it at first and not having everyone buying the model 3/Y/CT with full FSD one time deal. On the other hand, given the historic ever-changing-Tesla sales/design/execution, it's highly probable that the 8K purchase would be changed. I mean when competitor one day do sell their FSD (Nvdia) instead of subscription, that might change. Or as someone else suggested a limited Taxi-joinable fleet time per month or so, by milage or by time slot. Yet the owner can use it anytime he/she wants and not have to forever paying. Let's say, if someone bought the 8K FSD now, after 8 years, owner sells the car, and you CANNOT transfer the FSD to the next car, so next Tesla purchase, you pay another 8K for another 8 years. That's 16K/16 years, still similar to subscription $999/year. So now it depends on the "longevity" of the EV itself, how will the battery degrade over 8 years. Maybe not much, but would you be selling it after 8 years/10 years? If they will still honor 1 time transfer, that seems better, but what if they stopped it. There are still too many unknown factors at this point and Elon only give the consumer 1 month to even "think" about it. Summarizing the factors here: Will current HW4 be capable of FSD and run it as the future level of Cybercab? Or Robotaxi just means supervised FSD with HW4? Grok said HW4 is fully capable of FSD and Ai 5 is 20x faster, well, where's the evidence. There probably won't be a Ai 5 chip that goes with a $8K FSD package. Will there be a $25k Tesla? Probably not until the Cybercab is rolled out that has no steering. I think Tesla/Elon knows the majority of people won't dish out 8K, and would rather "try" it out. So therefore the subscription, the block of no longer able to buy 8K might be "temporary", 50/50 now. So far it's only Elon's tweet, no? Anyways. given 1 month like this, and "forced" a purchase, I think it's just a way to cause some FOMO. I might be wrong. If you have FU money to spend, yeah go ahead. I'd use that 8K invest in the stock instead.

I think the prospect of it going unsupervised soon is the entire impetus behind this. They have to essentially assume liability if they are telling you directly that you can take your eyes and focus off the road completely. That basically implies that whoever has FSD unsupervised pretty much has Tesla permanently responsible for insuring their car in an accident. Tesla's not going to let you hand them that liability permanently for just $8K anymore, it'll be month to month, and I'd imagine at a higher rate than the current $99/mo once it does go unsupervised precisely for insurance/liability reasons. That also means their calculus for releasing unsupervised (beyond government approvals) involves: 1. How good do we think it is at avoiding accidents. 2. How much do we need to charge to account for payouts on the accidents that do occur. 3. What's the upper limit on the customer pain point for pricing that they'd still pay for all of this capability to the extent that we sell sufficient subscriptions to make it worth our while/continue to invest in FSD development at scale.

They’ll charge $99/mo FSD Supervised. Then $199/mo for FSD Unsupervised (some day… right?)

Sounds like the best for Tesla. Also it appears to get to 10 million subscribers, they are going to have reduce the price quite a bit. So good for me as well.

Just going to continue to not have FSD

I like it.

To me it’s not even worth it on long road trips. Those are always long highway drives which autopilot works well enough on.

I’m a Rivian owner and I like driving the car myself. I like using autopilot on the highway, but don’t get the allure of FSD. Does it even work?

For comparison sake, comma four is only 1k. And works with 300+ models of cars. Some cars also reqquire adapters, which can be like 20, 50, or 99 dollar adapter. But it can be used with several currently FREE car AI systems, including openpilot.

They probably have a nvidea super computer, a huge NAS, and have to pay for all the eletricity, bandwith, licencing, that goes with it to constantly training an AI.

If they get to the point your car and be a robo taxi, 99 a month might not be so bad if it can recoop the cost in like a day of robo taxing. But like at that point, any car that can be a robotaxi is suddenly more profitable for tesila.

8k is 800 per year(+10% per year) in opportunity cost. It would *never, ever* make mathematical sense to pay for it outright at the current pricing. Full purchase: After 8 years you’ve paid $17,148 (8000+7,148 in historical average sp500 returns). Subscription: after 8 years you’ve paid $9,600. After 10, 15, 30, etc years the difference only grows greater.

Calculate for opportunity cost. No amount of years will paying 8k cost less than 100 per month.

Every full outright FSD purchase should be in a liability account called *unearned revenue.*

Crazy

I think it's a way for Tesla to get out of replacing hardware on HW3 cars with FSD. If you don't own FSD now then they don't need to replace/upgrade your hardware to make it work with FSD and will just remove the FSD option entirely from those cars so you can never get it due to incompatible hardware

He's gotta make his $ and this was part of that incentive package people voted to give him. They need like 10M active subscriptions, so he's just turning it all into a subscription

Guys, you’re forgetting the option to lease your Tesla (FSD only) to other people. This is the part that will reduce your sub price.

This makes sense because car insurance has stopped covering fsd. So you're automatically in the hole

There are a few things that don't make sense about this move. With Tesla moving into the RoboTaxi business, once FSD unsupervised is fully operational, why would Tesla want to sell cars to the public when they could put them into service as a Robotaxi and make a much higher return on investment? Why would they sell you a car you could use to either a) Compete with them or b) Join their system and split the profit when option c) gives them all the profit. Before they decided to get into the Robotaxi business it made sense to have FSD as a means to distinguish their cars from others and sell their vehicles to the public. Now with other vehicle makers developing their own FSD or incorporating Nvidia's tool set, the advantage will rapidly diminish. In 3 to 4 years innovation's we haven't seen yet could cause the advantage now seen to vanish. For example, Nvidia's approach can read and understand signs because it incorporates a large language model and FSD does not. Grok is an add on that feels like a poorly patched tire. A very large percentage of the time it doesn't understand your request and ignores it or worse. For example, you have selected a destination and FSD selected a route, you are driving to the destination but you prefer a different route. You know that a right turn at the next intersection will cause the car to reroute while still using your destination and you tell Grok, "Turn right at the next traffic light." Grok will respond "OK" and then continue to drive straight through the intersection. There are too many examples of issues where the inability to read and comprehend cause problems. Parking is another big area. For example, I am handicapped, where possible, I want the car to select a hand-capped spot. I can't verbally give it my preference. We humans have to integrate a lot of information to drive. That is why the DOT requires truck drivers to be able to read and speak English to be licensed with a commercial license. Reliance on dated map data is no substitute for reading.

You make a great point about FSD following the person pretty much locking people into the Tesla brand. Of course, $8000 would be laughably low for that. I'm thinking that $15,000 to $20,000 would be more in line for a lifetime of FSD. And honestly, that is still in the "FSD sorta works" area. If it fully works as we all want, that is probably still too low.

They're going to let the purchases go until they even out a compared to a monthly payment, after that everybody is in the same playing field and they'll charge what they want.

I always felt that FSD should either follow the owner or follow the car but this is a nice alternative.

Tech Comes to Cars™️

Comma ai is like $1000-1200

My 22 model S has it from the original buyer (bought it 1yr used). I like it, but I'll never buy another one, and subscription BS is part of it.

Well you paid 8-15k for a tech that’s available for 99$ a month now So it will take 6 years of paying 100$ a month to get to 8k. Most people I know don’t own a tesla that long anyway. Elon screwed people with this bs

I've had Teslas since 2021. I have zero loyalty to Tesla-I paid for the product to use it. Tesla didn't give me anything for free, nor did any other brand (Lexus, MB, and others I owned). Thats all. The empty promise of upgrading HW3 will never happen. FSD is the best there is out there for now, but I'm not going to limit myself to the brainfarts of Elon Musk. He proved unreliable over and over. Buying Lucid Gravity soon, light-years ahead with Hardware, light-years behind with Software. No matter what, I have to compromise.

These things are becoming money sinks

It should be half price for HW3 and lower.

Needs to be purchased per account. One purchase and any Tesla's you own get it. Not purchasing something that stays with the car. And 1300 a year is crazy. Especially if you have multiple Tesla's

will this mean that my 2018 Model 3 LR AWD with fsd go up in price?

HW3 should be cheaper. Like $60 a month. If the car can’t drop me off and then find a parking spot, why am I paying as much as one that does?

people actually defending FSD boing subscription is diabolical.

Paying outright isn’t worth it. You can pay monthly for 9 years to get the same dollar for dollar. Are you even going to have the car that long? If the answer is no, then pay the subscription

It’s insane paying monthly fee for adaptive cruise control in your own car.

I thought it was just a contingency of his pay package to have more subscriptions. If your only choice is to subscribe you can likely increase subscriptions. This isn't any strategic planning it's just about getting paid.

Never understood why people bought the package since it's not transferable. You just never know and I'd hate to feel locked to the car. I wasn't planning on trading in my 2 year old MY, but when Elon offered those insane deals in December 2024, I couldn't resist and I knew the credit was going away.

First time? You never owned FSD, it’s the car’s. You just simply purchase software for it.

People usually keep cars for 8 years on average. So even if you purchased it outright ($8k), it’s still the same price as their yearly subscription ($1k).

I only use fsd on road trips and that was only to get the lane change on blinker activation... so im good with it

All the up-front purchasers funded the startup investment for Tesla, and now they need a reliable income stream dedicated to maintaining FSD development. I now have even less of an incentive to ever sell, trade in, or upgrade my vehicle now that it's locked in with FSD. Gotta extract my value back out of it somehow.

I've been saying this since day 1 (10 years ago when it was still in testing). Imma love to buy FSD as an account upgrade, but buying it on an individual car seems overpriced for my usage.

Every HW3 car sold will not ever get FSD unless they are stupid. Hw4 different story.

Tesla over sold FSD. Sold copies have become compounding liabilities. Retro-fitting and no performance law suits are about to get ugly.

After I heard this awesome news I was finally able to fire my Chauffeur and that bastard stole my Grey Poupon!

I won't buy a car with any subscriptions on it. Since I worked for IDIADA for 5+ years which is a car testing company, I can tell you that everyone who used the Self Driving feature should have been paid because they were basically test subjects. Secondly, which is the bigger part, I like owning my vehicle. I don't buy vehicles with any subscription part. Why would I pay 1/4 of my car payment every month forever? If you guys don't know, basically every single major car manufacture has Fully Self Driving vechicals. They are not allowed on normal roads because of legal pushback from different states alongside job security. I will wait for a more reputable brand to sell it as part of the car.

Current price is 7-8 years worth of subscriptions. I don't think I'll own my car that long. Subscriptions give me the option to turn on and off as needed, and replace the car as desired. At current prices, subscription makes a lot more sense. Of course if the subscription price doubles or triples, it will be a different story.

Yepppp. Make sure you vote with your wallet next time.

Like every other subscription, no one is forcing you to buy it. I enjoyed FSD for 30 days and then moved on. I binged GOT on HBO Max and then killed it and moved on, etc.

Subscription fee will go down, particularly if you factor in inflation. The break even point is roughly 7 years. It doesn’t make sense to pay 8k upfront unless you intend to keep the car running for at least 7 years. That’s why most people don’t buy.

Sure you can, just don't buy a Tesla

I think if it’s switching to subscription only they should also make a positive to this change. FSD should be connected to your account and can be used in ANY Tesla you are in, even if you’re sitting in your friends Tesla.

Sir, you also need DLCs for parking and rural areas. 😬

They have to change or put a new law, for example 1. If i activate FSD and got into an accident am i accountable? I wasn’t driving 2. Somebody lost their life on no fault of your own or the FSD is it vehicular manslaughter or just a plain accident 3. New type of insurance??

If the purchase were bound to your Tesla account and not to a vehicle, it'd be worth it. But since it's bound to a vehicle only, it's not worth it. You'd have to keep the car for 5 years AND use it every single day to break even.