This is the one that reportably will have a driver in the driver seat (unlike Austin, TX in the passenger's seat)? I kinda get this, a driver in the driver seat using the special Robotaxi FSD they are using in Austin can probably be used without any special permit but it will also get Tesla useful data to improve and tune the software for the Bay Area.
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Tesla needs those 50,000 miles driven with a safety driver behind the wheel before they can move the driver to the passenger seat for full Robotaxi operation. 50,000 miles sounds like a big hurdle, but considering Austin’s smaller geofence already clocked about 7,000 miles in just a month, the Bay Area with its roughly double-sized geofence should rack up miles faster. So reaching that 50,000-mile mark shouldn’t take too long
Wow, a full Bay Area rollout rather than a soft geofenced portion. Bold move.
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its a demo for robotaxi
I can’t give you a 100% definitive answer, but you have to take into consideration that when Waymo first started, they also had safety drivers. I’m just guessing Tesla wants to collect a certain amount of data with the current Robotaxi software before they feel confident enough to let it run on its own. The thing is, as Tesla owners, we’re all on a specific version of the FSD software, right? But Tesla has never disclosed which FSD version the Robotaxi is actually using, or how much driving it has already done in the past. So I think it really comes down to how much data they’re gathering once they have enough, and feel confident in the system’s performance, that’s when they’ll likely remove the safety driver.
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The latest FSD works amazing in the Bay Area. I haven’t had an intervention for 2 months over 3000 miles. It’s happening!
Nope. Not doing it. I’m not going to be a test rat for Elon
Crazy to see how far ahead Waymo is on this considering the head start Tesla had.
I’m so bored of this argument. Waymo did their initial rollout with supervisors. It would be stupid to not test the waters, and trail things before removing supervisors. The car is doing the driving. It’s a level 2 system. They have a path to evolve that. Who cares.
Waymo starts new areas with a safety driver as well. It's more of a testing/legislative thing. It's going to be like a dozen cars and invite only to start.
what is the diffrence? its not like they can demo in a car with no steeringwheel
They probably have more existing FSD data for the Bay Area than any place else on Earth. Both because of the company's traditional ties to here but because you can't throw a rock without hitting a Tesla.
That car you're referring to is called Cybercab. Robotaxi is the service. And they'll obviously test with a human in the car before removing the human completely. I'm sure they'd prefer to have the human in the passenger seat like in Austin, but they're required to have someone in the driver's seat in California.
Huh? Waymo has existed since before the original Model S even came out.
And that's with a version of FSD that's several months behind what they're using here.
Why? Just curious, if you have no need of the service, that's fine.
there’s no difference, the new model Y has the same front and backend as CyberCab, with just 4 doors instead of 2 (plus steering wheel of course)
> it's not the car they called robotaxi, it's a normal model y or 3 That *is* Robotaxi. Robotaxi is the network. "CyberCab" I think is the form factor you're thinking of? It being a "normal model y or 3" is exactly the point (long term) of all of this, that *any* of the millions of those on the roads today could eventually do this job. But for now, they have to meet some local regulations in various markets. In Texas there was no requirement for a safety driver, but in California there is. But much like Waymo needed safety drivers in their cars in SF at the start ... they were eventually able to pull them once they demonstrated enough safety. Tesla is now on that pathway as well. Will they succeed? Only time will tell.
Where did this 50,000 come from?
What head start has Tesla had? Waymo has been working on self-driving since 2004. As far as I know, this is before Tesla even started thinking about FSD. Just because Waymo isn't offered on consumer vehicles doesn't mean their work didn't exist. They have always been ahead of Tesla in terms of self-driving technology.
Eh, they have someone in the drivers seat, pretty safe honestly. It should give them a lot fo high quality data though.
Law
Indeed. It even drove me with no intervention from my house in San Jose to my apartment in Santa Monica, and backing itself into superchargers. All I did was plug in! Performed really well in LA and OC too, with only one non critical intervention because it was too polite for LA traffic.
This is directly from the Reuters website. ‘’California regulators on Friday issued proposed rules that could impact Tesla and its plans to launch a robotaxi network in the state. The proposal would require autonomous vehicle companies using passenger vehicles to complete a minimum of 50,000 miles (80,467 km) of testing with a safety driver before they can apply for a permit to begin driverless testing. After that, companies would need to perform at least another 50,000 miles of driverless testing before they can apply to deploy the vehicles for commercial operations. Currently, the state has no minimum mileage requirements for testing.” https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-updates-robotaxi-users-about-chauffeur-style-service-california-business-2025-07-27/
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Anyone know how to even get the app? I filled out the form online with a zip code in that circle and no dice.
Officially live, but invite only.
That’s all they got at this point. bUt iT hAs a sUpeRvIsOr sCAm!
it's not robotaxi even close. Name it properly.
Crazy to think we trust Google to run a car service when their google home devices can’t even turn on a light bulb when we want it to. It’s only been like 10 years or so.
Wait, in Austin they've only done 7,000 miles so far? Is it really just the 10 cars and influencer invite-only still? When will they add more cars and open to the public?
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I completely agree. They seem to be pretty confident. They might also revise the map after they remove the supervisor from drivers seat. If the service area really does include SFO, I think that is a big deal. If I were Uber/Lyft I would begin to be worried.
I think people have a problem with the false advertising mostly. Calling things "full self driving" that aren't is somewhat misleading no? Calling it a "robotaxi" when it's just a regular taxi is the same thing, just feels a little weird to be so misleading with the labels, like its trying to fool people who aren't paying attention.
How will the safety drivers get dropped off at the homes of people who want to put their Model Y on the robotaxi network, and how do they install the safety buttons?
I think it's easier because there are people driving them. Uber also covers the whole bay area without a geofence and this is functionally no different than an Uber driver with a Model Y.
No. They do an invite only period to control numbers but it's not influencers or whatever, you can sign up. I've done it.
Two different system . Waymo has to map everything. Tesla uses cameras. You can park a. Tesla in your garage you can't buy a waymo. Waymo is in it's Kodak moment . Every car that drives off the line to shipping lot could become a robo taxi .
They did that already. At the robitaxi event
> at the homes of people who want to put their Model Y on the robotaxi network The Robotaxi software is not generally available fleet-wide yet, so none of your questions are relevant.
Is it just software, or are there hardware mods that will also be required? How will they get the safety buttons in everyone's cars? Will it work on HW3?
We’re talking about self driving tech, so whether or not you can buy the car is irrelevant to the conversation. Yes, Waymo uses HD maps to assist with driving. That doesn’t mean Waymo’s tech requires it. I’m not disagreeing with you that Tesla could (keyword is could here) overtake Waymo, but it is just downright false to claim that Tesla ever had a “head start” on Waymo. If anything Waymo has had the head start.
Do you mean FSD literally does all the driving for you?
Even while driving in SF? I got interruptions daily but I’ve moved from the city and haven’t tested the new FSD updates since.
Yeah in a privite property for sure but try convince the president to allow this in streets
I mean, it’s a taxi that drives itself. If we’re nitpicking the naming choice, human oversight doesn’t change the fact that it’s navigating and controlling itself, ie a robot. If they called it “private robotaxi” or “unsupervised robotaxi”, then I agree the name would be improper. Plus it’s only a matter of time until the monitors are gone, just like Waymo. Would we expect them to change the whole service’s name at that point?
Yes. I still have to park myself since it just stops in front of the destination.
That is absolutely incorrect. Please don't spread misinfo. Also, not everyone has to do things the Waymo way, anyway. That said, you're wrong, and deliberately lying, which isn't the right thing to do.
Really? Does that include SF's busy streets? I know FSD works superwell on non-congested streets, I am just surprised it'd work as well in SF.
But other than parking, you are not intervening at all, for 3000 miles? That’s crazy!
I’ve only been to SF twice with an earlier version and it worked great. I only had to drive to find parking. I’ve heard huge differences between HW3 vs HW4. I have HW4.
I still occasionally see Waymo’s with drivers in Austin, idk why exactly they have someone in the driver seat but they almost always have atleast one hand on the wheel. Very strange
Indeed. I used to ride with a finger on the wheel and a foot resting on the pedal but now I’m just sitting back completely relaxed.
Could be me then. I have the hw3 and older firmware back then. But there’s no way in hell I’m trusting Tesla in SF based on that experience. I’ve taken Waymo which was always a pleasant experience. If Tesla can match that with camera, I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
I don’t goto SF that often but it worked flawlessly in LA. It even anticipated and dodged crazy LA drivers. Felt so much safer than driving myself.
They’ve been continuously sending out more invites and have also just started expanding the fleet
Fair
It’s not the FSD version being used in Austin. It’s the latest publicly available version
Where can I find the info on this?
I live an hour from SF, and in my experience, it works better there than in my relatively-quiet suburb. It’s somewhat counterintuitive (this is with HW4, if it matters)
There are no “safety buttons.” Stop listening to batshit insane Waymo fanatics from /r/selfdrivingcars. Tesla “Robotaxi’d” a brand new car to a customer last month - straight off the assembly line, out the door, and up to the customer’s apartment. It’s all stock/standard hardware, nothing “custom” for current HW4 owners. HW3 owners like me - we’re waiting to find out.
It appears then that at 50,000 miles driven with the safety driver, they can then apply for a permit. If that's approved, then another minimum 50,000 miles of driverless testing. And then another approval review. All of these are minimum miles and application reviews can take X amount of time, and all this assumes that Tesla isn't sent back as the result of a review for more testing. Just seems like they are far from full operations in the Bay area.
I thought there were safety buttons for the safety driver? How are they intervening without something like this? This is an honest question. I saw that delivery video, was pretty cool! Was it a one time thing or when do they start doing more of that?
The safety buttons for the safety monitors are software. They're on the lower left front of the main screen when the car is in Robotaxi mode. There is speculation that safety monitors have also been trained to keep their hand on the door handle at all times in order to quickly hit the door activation button if needed. Again, it's all speculation. It might be that the door activation button has been reconfigured in software for a different purpose we don't know about. Tesla hasn't commented either way, but it hasn't stopped stupid people online making comments like "see, they're driving it!" (through some tiny little thumb-operated control??) I think they will make delivery to customers automatic, but it won't be "straight from the factory" unless you live near the factory (as that owner did). I don't want my Tesla driving 1,000 to get from the factory to me just to save a couple hundred bucks on delivery charges. So I expect most Teslas will still go from factory to showrooms/dealer lots through traditional truck transport, but that last 10-20 mile delivery from the showroom to the customer could certainly be automated eventually.
How can I try this out
Thanks for clarifying re: the buttons, that makes sense. So for now, that automatic delivery was just a one time thing it sounds like. I wonder why they haven't done more in the Austin area near the factory, since it seemed to go smoothly from the video.
Might have been an easier sell in January :o
Any information on pricing?
How much more expensive than Uber?
(supervised)
Robotaxi in Austin is on the street
Still invite only so kind of a soft roll out.
Getting rides from Uber or Lyft from SF to San Jose is super painful. This makes that super attractive
50,000 miles is a big hurdle? Truckers do 500 a day, literally 100 cars could do it in a day. Seems like not even a hurdle.
but… half the population by the end of the year…
One point of reference, if you live in SF you've seen Amazon's Zoox cars testing for what seems like a couple years now. They still have drivers in those. Waymos were using drivers for what seems like years too before they finally got to be driverless, and then even more time before they got to driverless with passengers. If Tesla is starting now just dont think they are remotely close to the finish line.
Yeah I have no faith in Tesla. But 50k miles with a driver in the seat seems trivial. I would expect you'd want like a million miles with a specific very low intervention rate or something before removing the drivers.
How do you call it up?
The Internet explorer of robo taxis is here!
I used to be like you, thousands of miles in LA with 0 issues, and then FSD (hw4 mind you) went full steam ahead towards a stationary cop on motorbike and I had to pull the wheel to narrowly avoid him. He then pulled me over but luckily I got off with a warning. Be careful.
Yeah but they didn’t call it a robot taxi and didn’t open it up until people could get it without a fucking human there
With Tesla employees in the car. So they have a copy of Uber.
Waymo is in talks with Toyota and others to license its tech
I don’t know where in the butthole he manages to pull this stuff from
Waymo started with safety drivers on paid rides, same as Tesla. Waymo is currently rolling out paid rides with safety drivers in NYC. I’ve paid for a Waymo in Austin, and a dude was sitting in the front seat when the car showed up.
Well when California regulators make a new regulation suddenly and specifically when Tesla begins, that's hard to anticipate their targeted setback, probably at Waymo's request or as just a personal fuckyou.
...and TSLA down $10 today
okay well I look forward to it being at half the us population outside of california then, I’m sure that’s a totally realistic goal that will be hit.
Thanks for the heads up. I still don’t trust it when approaching road work and accidents or around motorcycles. So far it’s been handling them fine but risk is too high not to pay full attention around these cases.
It’s going to be great once they have enough cars here. Right now all you get is “High Demand Try Later” message
If they didn’t have a human supervisor they’d just say how reckless it is to launch without one.
Dynamic pricing now
Omg that’s so true. What a great argument
But can you actually sign up?
That doesn’t require the safety driver to be in the driver seat.
Yes it is.
I wouldn’t be. The only people who like Tesla are people who already own Tesla’s and therefore don’t need his robotaxi. The rest of the population walked away from this Ponzi scheme of a brand a long time ago
They're aiming for it to be cheaper but for now seems similar to Uber depending on factors. I saw it's not just distance based so not sure how they calculate it.
I'm in the bay area as well and can confirm I'm getting a pretty similar experience.
I think I started using FSD in late April or May in SF and it's been working really well
I think I started using FSD in late April or May in SF and it handles the congestion just fine. It drives better than me at night in the places that are unlit.
In Austin their prices are like half what Uber charges per mile.
wow
It is? https://x.com/tslachan/status/1949218605356433855?s=46
I kind of suspect that Tesla will not open robotaxi to independent operators. They will keep robotaxi in house. All the cars they can’t sell will be turned into taxis. When the cybercan comes out they will not sell it, but use it only in house. Why do all this work and cut themselves out of the revenue?
That fsd version probably has a ton of code specifically for Austin and Texas.
It is still a geofence.
I’m not interested in probably
There’s gotta be some part of this that’s just to mitigate lawsuits down the line right? How can you continue to roll out Robotaxis that are often synonymous with self-driving (due to many, numerous claims of Tesla having “Full-Self Driving” and sell it as a package) and still not be actual self-driving vehicles? This is just a taxi service with some limited robotic capabilities. Hardly a robotaxi with a Tesla employee up front. Granted, it’s better than nothing, I guess. Maybe I’m just salty since my ‘22 with FSD and its capabilities are not too promising. I’m a dummy.
wait do people still think Tesla is going to enable a system in which people can turn on their Tesla’s to go be driverless ubers for other people? Like in the cars they have today?
I hope they focus on building cars :(
It’s not a robot car if there’s a dude in it
This makes me wonder on how well FSD would handle mounted police, seeing as the bulk of the horse and rider are so much higher up...
The name is provocative, it gets the people going...
That's not true. In some locations Waymo used safety drivers for a full year before they were allowed to drop them.
So having been caught lying you're just going to complain about the branding? Everybody knows this is a temporary testing phase that everybody has to do.
Genuinely curious. Did Waymo have to do this in Los Angeles?
Has anyone used it?
Idc as long as it’s cheaper than uber or Lyft. Having a competitor is a good thing.
So a Tesla taxi service.
It’s not an autopilot if there’s two dudes in the cockpit
Yes it says FSD versions that are not publicly available. I think it's clear here that they're calling their unsupervised version supervised here
Are you slow your whole argument is based on probably and then you're going to bash others for taking the same approach you don't know anything for fact. Everything you said is a complete guess.
Why would it be cheaper? They still have to pay a driver.
They are mostly just sitting there let’s be real. The drivers don’t have to pay for their fuel and maintenance so they should expect less.
Aren’t you and some other posters trying to blur the lines here? This is a taxi service period. There’s nothing robo about it. Saying Waymo or others did it doesn’t mean anything here.
This has nothing to do with robo. There’s no pathway from this to no driver in its current form. I feel like people are trying to blur the lines between robotaxi and taxi to make it sound like Tesla is catching up to Waymo or even the same league, which it’s not.
This is absolutely not the same thing and “they have to meet some local regulations” sounds like you’re trying to make this into something else. You and some other posters are trying to blur the lines and trying to pass this off as something it’s not.
But Tesla wil have to pay for maintenance and ‘fuel’… and yes let’s pay people only when they are actually working…. Wtf??? The cost of operation isn’t that much cheaper for Tesla.
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> This is absolutely not the same thing True or False Question: Did Waymo have safety drivers in the driver's seats of cars in San Francisco when they first started launching? Yes or no? I'll give you a hint -- > [During the San Francisco testing program, [Waymo] vehicles will require safety drivers who are ready to intervene if something goes wrong.](https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/waymo-expands-to-san-francisco-with-public-self-driving-test/)
SF is around 47sq/mi, and most of it limited to 25-35mph. Your average trip is probably about 5 miles and likely wont be on a freeway. An above average Uber driver does like 200 miles a day in SF. You're not doing 500 miles a day here.
To be fair, Zoox has largely been doing testing and mapping, same with Waymo. The claim with Tesla is that FSD doesn't need the kind of detailed mapping that they do. Still... much doubt from me, heh.
You know most ride share isn’t electric right? The cost per mile is higher. Drivers also don’t own the repair shop and the insurance.
Their cost is still lower because they control everything. This seems like a good gig if you want a better schedule and it the economics makes sense it makes people less likely to drive for uber or only do it for off hours
Please explain why you think there's no pathway.
and don't forget rockets, ground control is the ones doing 100% of the work unless some screw up happens and ground can't see or know what's up or correct it themselves (and typically, not manually) - even when its crewed launches
Yes
Nothing you said there makes any sense in reference to the ’robotaxi’ service or Uber. An Uber driver can use a cheaper car than a Tesla, and regardles of your other assumptions, the drivers still have to be paid. Are you claiming that people will drive robotaxi’s for fun, after their job? I highly doubt that they will price the service much cheaper than Uber… they are in it to make money.
You should look at how much uber drivers actually make lol.
So you are saying Tesla will pay their drivers less?
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Didn’t see the job posting but sure. Making $30/hr like this is very different than uber with your own cost to become a driver
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Yes
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Yes
Yes
lol. All who can read know that it’s simply not. Sorry you are disappointed but you can’t just keep lying to make something true
Would it take the Golden Gate Bridge to go from say downtown San Francisco to Sausalito? Or from Freemont to Foster City would it take the San Mateo Bridge?
Your complete lack of punctuation is astounding. Here, I’ll fix it for you: Are you slow? Your whole argument is based on “probably.” Then, you’re going to bash others for the same approach? You don’t know anything for a fact. Everything you said is a complete guess. Please, read more books and less reddit. It’ll drastically improve your ability to communicate with the written word. Cheers.
I use punctuation when voice recognition starts putting it in properly I ain't got time for that.
Except it is. They’re using the unreleased FSD build they’re using in Austin.
Ok you say so. I didn't say that waymo had a head start . Tesla in a way started over. I will say this is Waymo Kodak Moment. They need to buy the cars then buy the equipment then install the equipment. Tesla come off the line ready to go. We will see what happens .
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Sure, but you responded to a comment about Tesla having a head start with all this irrelevant info that has nothing to do with what was being debated.
They absolutely will offer independent owners to buy a car, service it, house it and get a cut of the miles. Otherwise they need to do the following in every area of the country: 1. Rent storage lots for the cars to sit in off hours 2. Rebuild all super Chargers to be autonomous or have attendant plugging in the fleet 3. Build & deploy nationally fully autonomous car cleaning or work out deals with local car cleaning shops I’m probably missing other simple things, but storage, charging, cleaning are the big 3 that need to be daily.
Because when they get rid of the safety employee per car the cost goes down dramatically. It becomes how many cars per teleportation and I’m sure that will scale over time.
But there is no sign they will be able to get rid of the safety driver. I know they want to, but they aren’t even close to that point.
Why? What is the person in the passenger seat doing right now? What would happen if they weren’t there? Have you used the service in Austin?
Lots of videos of them hitting the “stop” button when the car does something dumb.
Haven’t they been testing FSD for years with people who just bought cars? I’m sure that’s way more than 50k.
Did you download the app?
How is it full self driving when it has… a driver? How come trucks are trucking autonomously on same highways?
If it drove itself… it wouldn’t need the human driver. This is just called… “taxi”. Except anyone can call a taxi.
More likely they don’t have access. I think anyone can download the waymo app (been like that for years). Plus if the car comes with a driver why not just get uber?
Are we both looking at an image with a geofence on it? What is a “full” rollout? What kind of a rollout would one be if if it didn’t have human drivers, and was available to anyone?
No. They tested first and then launched autonomous vehicles.
Why do they have a safety driver in Texas then?
2021
The drivers they have to use because they don’t have a driverless vehicle?
So FSD(s) ?
If they could have launched without them they would have.
It’s not a driverless taxi though.
All driverless companies want to do that. If you start one tomorrow, you’d want to as well, otherwise what’s the point? This should be obvious no?
Wait move driver to the passenger seat? What’s the point of that?
Doesn’t it cover the whole of Bay Area though?
Is it just 50000 miles or 50000 miles without intervention? And will Tesla have to report the number of interventions or only once they don't have a driver anymore?
They have a “safety monitor” in the car, by choice. But it is not required - the customer delivery of a new car went like 30-40 miles straight from the factory assembly line to the customer’s home with no monitor “Safety driver” is someone sitting in the driver’s seat. Which is what CA mandates.
The most dense areas for rideshare services in the Bay Area are SF and San Jose. You're more likely to own a car in San Jose, and less likely to use a rideshare service like Uber or Lyft there. SF is also way more dense population-wise while being extremely compact making it ideal for these services. We obviously don't have numbers for Tesla, but we can use Uber as a proxy. Something like 25% of all Uber rides *globally* originate from SF, LA, NYC, London, and Sao Paulo. SFCTA has also said in the past that rideshares from and to destinations inside SF account for 15% of total vehicle trips. So yes, it covers the whole Bay Area, but just like the other rideshare services, people are way more likely to use it for intra-SF travel. The one exception here would be going to SFO, but that would likely be excluded since you need to take 101 or 280 to get there, so the data is not useful for city-based autonomous driving.
I don’t understand. Why in the world would they choose to offer a robotic taxi service with a driver? How is this different from uber? Waymo has been delivering itself to me for like two years, no drivers. And they’re in California, why are they not mandated to have a driver.
> And they’re in California, why are they not mandated to have a driver. They are mandated when initially getting regulatory approvals. It's not like CA suddenly pulled the requirement for everyone - it's company by company ... just like Waymo had to do several years ago in SF. IIRC, I believe they have to have 50,000 miles logged before they can ask CA whether or not they can pull the safety drivers.
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You make it sound like no one has ever used their FSD ever. I have a friend alone who must have logged half of those hours.
That doesn't explain why you think they're no pathway to driverless. Obviously the first step on the path is to start with a human in the car before removing the human completely.
I mean obviously but we did that more than a century ago.
No, I'm talking about the car running self-driving software with a human still in the car just to make sure everything works properly before eventually removing the human. Every self-driving car company does that first.
That we did decades ago.
We had self-driving car software decades ago? Unless you're talking about something like cruise control, we absolutely didn't lol.
any expectation on when average Tesla owner can receive an invite? I'm dying to try one.
How do I get the robotaxi app?
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