Model S/X refresh launches today

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I'm surprised that this didn't get leaked earlier.. the first time I heard about the refresh S/X was only a few days ago.

"Refresh". No 48V, no steer by wire, no 800V for faster charging on V4s. They need to get rid of the falcon wings and cut the price by $20K to be competitive with the EV9 and Ioniq 9.

What a weak refresh for two cars that are in dire need of a real one.

This is so beyond disappointing, I physically cannot believe it. I was positive there would be a dramatic improvement since there has been none, to the extent of being called major, since the last facelift? Insane

And no AI5

This is pretty pathetic.

The new wheels look great and front camera is good but everything else is a major letdown. Is the range even new? I thought the old S did 400mi too

Are you kidding me, that’s it?

There was a pic of the frost blue color a couple days ago I think Edit: here is the post https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/YrwCqbIg8f

I am so beyond disappointment

I know people want a redesign but I see value in maintaining an iconic design through the years similar to 911. Parts remain similar and it's not like the design is dated or looks bad in the market. Everything else though I agree is kind of weak and not worth the added premium to what you could have gotten for a new S just a couple weeks back. Really surprised that steer by wire didn't make it.

Nobody who can read thought any of that stuff was happening.

I just want a cheaper 7 passenger EV

396 if remember correctly so an increase of 14 miles.

97k for a fully specd MSLR. No yoke option. I paid 74.5 in 2023 with fsd transfer, so let’s say 84k. 13k more? For what?

After scanning what they listed in the announcement, this sounds like a big facelift to the S/X without any fundamental architecture changes (i.e. no steer-by-wire, no 48V, no 800V, no rear-wheel steering, etc.), much like the Highland 3/Juniper Y refreshes. Good QoL improvements, but nothing that really moves the needle. I really think they need more to keep the S/X competitive in their price bracket of $85-105k. Edit: seems like they also no longer allow you to pick a Yoke (still $1k) unless you get the Plaid variant of either car. Interesting choice to say the least. The list from the official tweet: – Frost Blue paint color – Up to 410 miles of range (Model S Long Range – our longest range Tesla yet) – Even quieter inside: less wind + road noise & more effective Active Noise Cancellation – New wheel designs & improved aerodynamics = more range – Front fascia camera for better visibility – Dynamic ambient lighting that brings unique animations along the dash & doors upon entry – An even smoother ride thanks to new bushings & suspension design – Adaptive driving beams – New exterior styling for Model S Plaid, optimized for high-speed stability – More space for 3rd row occupants & cargo (Model X)

Not sure why anyone thought there would be immense overhaul on a low volume product like the S&X..

“Refresh”

This leaked weeks ago man. They’ve been driving around with no camouflage. Tons of photos online.

How did they achieve more room in the X for 3rd row passengers and cargo? Is that the 6 seat or 7 seat configuration?

Great, can it have right hand steering?

Surprised they didn't find a way to eek 4 more miles out of it for an even 400

This is the most surprising to me. These are supposed to be their “flagship” models. High margin. High tech. I’d expect them to get AI5 first while they scale chip production. Maybe it’s not ready yet? Maybe they’re being run by morons? They seem to have fired most of the competent people over the last year.

No AI5, looks like I’m waiting for the next refresh.

Model S was 405 miles before.

The sauce is weak. Now every model has been "refreshed" and no one is buying them. Except the cybertruck, that failed almost instantly.

Literally just a Tesla suburban please

LOL

How much longer is model x?

The Y...?

Top speed dropped on plaid

Is the X ever going to get to 400 mile range?

Minor refresh makes sense. A ground-up rebuild would be a huge effort for little gain, given how little of the S/X line they sell. This minor change makes it less dated compared to Model 3/Y.

Frost blue is awful 😂

It’s called the Rivian R1S.

Why do people keep saying they need to get rid of the falcon wings? That’s one of the biggest selling points of the X. If it didn’t have those doors I’d be driving an R1T right now. I agree with the other points though.

Personally, I was really hoping for steer-by-wire... Curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on what we got vs. what we expected.

EV9?

Also wondering what the change was there.

It’s a low volume product because they refuse to overhaul it.

This refresh is joke. Hell even the top speed was reduced on plaid

You want the EV9. It’s pretty great.

Cadillac Vistiq

Lol, yeah, nothing has increased in price in the last 2 years.

No 405

So now the only car without a front bumper camera is the model 3… That has to be coming soon, right?

>cheaper

They've said before they keep them around mostly for nostalgia, seems like they aren't actually interested in the luxury market anymore

Maybe? Lol

Trump tariffs?

I don't get why this is claimed as a "refresh"? I don't believe Tesla has ever used that word about these changes, they just made some cool updates. I like them!

Awesome!

Saw a couple people say top speed drops, this is true with the 19” wheels. My guess is that the 19” tires aren’t rated for the higher speeds (happened with the Model 3). Change the wheels and the top speed changes.

The new 21in wheels look terrible. Hopefully you can take the aerocapps off. They would look a lot better without them. Love the 19in wheels though

Hold long ago now did they peak their battery technology? They were really moving up for awhile and now it feels like they’ve been stationary for some time.

Nope.

No it’s too big. And it’s a family car - no need for more range.

Did they ever say it was an actual refresh? To my knowledge they only said S/X would get some love. I could be wrong 🤷‍♂️

I’d agree with this in terms of the X, but the S is just an overall niche product.

🥱

Did the model x get longer? Why does it more cargo space and 3rd row space

They look the same 😂

There was a shirt promo period colors were free in 2023. No price change since then other than yoke got more expensive and maybe a few thousands for main config.

Yeah. Hopefully they allow a retrofit

Aw man, they got rid of the deep blue for the new frost blue, I really liked the old blue

Turn signal stalk is back in play?

I’d disagree here. AI5 would fragment the ecosystem and introduce even more hardware variability. I’d rather have them running stable software across fleet-consistent hardware than trying to shoehorn a new chip just because. What’s the point of additional performance if it’s only performative?

Model X can be 5k more expensive but needs steer-by-wire.

No cars in this market sell that many units.

No, all of their competitors sell in low volume.

149 top speed is wild. They’ll top out before 1/4 mile

Yeah, absolutely no one. They're totally not the best-selling cars in their class. And Model Y being quite literally the best-selling car of any kind in the world. But yeah, totally, nobody's buying. Lmao.

Hopefully they didn’t forget to make this one RHD capable.

The S and X use the 18650 battery. It’s the original cell Tesla started with. It’s old as shit.

Maybe this is where the extra 4 miles came from.

Really Tesla has not improved range for a very long time. I have model 3 and no more range for new models. What is the point?

The 3 is so small I never feel like I need a front bumper cam.

Nice. Improvements that cannot be seen by the eye but felt. I dig it. Probably much better NVH levels and ride comfort.

Okay so I can go order the front camera from the parts department when? #poormansrefresh #negativeequity For real though I was able to SiriusXM tuner in the Model Y. I have no reason to believe we won’t be able to make an additional camera work.

The 21wheels are still 200mph top speed

Wallet is safe .

I hope one day I'll have a reason to care (ie, they release a rhd version)

If the very first important highlight is that there's a new paint color, feel free to continue on with your life elsewhere. Very sad that they let this design rot and wither away.

Surprised they didn't find a way to bump the range up to 420 miles.

I would love an option with the X for no Falcon wings, the main reason we won't buy one. Know 3 people who have had problems with the falcon wings, so no thanks.

Doors sold you on a car?

They’re a nightmare on my family’s 2018 X. Even if they’ve been improved since, I wouldn’t want them. Just get some doors that open 90 degrees like on the Lucid Air and they mean nothing.

Manufacturers all over the world pilot new technologies in low volume, high margin products to recoup R&D costs while they ramp production before passing tech down to lower margin products. Why shouldn’t this apply to AI5 compute? Tesla has literally done this before with the S/X platform. This has less to do with performance and more to do with improving the financial picture of developing and deploying new technologies. Something that Tesla, again, has done in the past multiple times, including with FSD hardware. Hence my surprise they didn’t do it this time.

PowerShare has to come to the other models. I won’t buy any Tesla without it from here on out.

There's more to a battery than the size. The 18650 in use today is nothing like the original cell lol. That said, Tesla seems to have been distracted with dumbass projects and other endeavors. So this is a major disappointment compared to their pre-2020ish progress.

I love it. Two most beautiful, elegant looking cars on the road.

Or ioniq 9 is now available. I’m going to test drive one

They’ve kept Elon, which is not refreshing at all. To be fair some cars, I’m thinking of the 911, don’t need to make many changes. They’re near perfect as they are. I think suspension is what needs most improvement, and has had it, over the last few years.

My bad, I was thinking of Plaid before it got downgraded in range. Even so 402-405 is not much of a range boost to 410.

Now only the new Y has ugly Hyundai front headlights

Are they still using the soy based wiring that rodents like to chew up?

Did they fix the front motor issue that prevents the build of right hand drive cars?

I believe that was before the revised EPA ratings.

Tesla keeps tapping F5 when we want them to hold Shift + F5

Way too expensive for what it is

No one expected that. Tesla literally said many times it will utilize those on new vehicles… it is simply too costly to add to current line up.

Yawn. Sales will continue to be trash. The S and X need a major refresh. Tesla is really trying to drag out sales of their models 3x longer than anyone else does

Apart from the interior it has looked the same for over a decade. It’s really looking old now. This has to be the lowest bar to be considered a refresh.

Yes the falcon wings are dope

Ambient LED lighting lmao

No way this is going to be RHD the markets too small.

We needed a face lift

Meanwhile they’re the one thing keeping me from buying one. I think they’re tacky and don’t really wanna deal with the reliability issues which apparently they still have. I’d rather have a full panoramic glass roof with switchable regions for opaque/translucency and soft close doors all around

Huh? Not even remotely the same pros

The S looks nice, but I liked the "floating" logo and the old blue color better.

It’s really not that big. If Rivian can get to 400 miles, the Model X definitely should. They have invested zero dollars into anything S and X related for years now. It’s pathetic

Revised EPA didn’t change it and it was 410 prior to this update.  Just look at inventory cars.  Odd the X went up like 20 miles.

This isnt a Porsche 911, and the competition has already surpassed Tesla in terms of features, amenities, and creature comforts. Even EVs that cost less. Tesla needed a whole new redesign of the X to compete with the real EV 3 rows out there ev9, ioniq 9, rivian, lucid, etc.

I honestly don’t understand the pros of the falcon wing doors. Never felt comfortable opening them in a tight space, so feels like the main pro is wasted on me

Why not? They work incredible in tight spots. That’s the entire point. 7 years and counting and zero issues with them but a lot of pros.

Probably for the extra headroom getting in

Are we ever going to see a front cam retrofit for the S or what

That’s with the stock wheels, with the 21” ones it’s 200mph

I’ve seen enough forum posts over the years to not want to. Would rather deal with a tight space than risk replacing a stupidly expensive door if it malfunctions. Sometimes it’s better to not overengineer a product.

Imagine the selling point for someone is unarguably the worst thing about the car..

See you in 2031!

Huh? You own a 2018…. Presumably for the past 6-7 years and you’re relying on forum posts instead of just using your doors? Jfc. 🤦‍♂️

It's cheaper to make but higher quality everything. Driving quality is the real focus. What did you want new streamers?

People are petty and require everything to have sprinkles.

The word ‘refresh’ doing a whole lot of heavy lifting in this headline.

Family car = road trip car. That’s the exact kind of car that needs range.

With the CCBs. Else 163 MPH. I'm really interested in knowing how they're handling this though. Like, if I buy the car with 19" wheels, am I stuck at 149 MPH even if I put high performance tires on after the fact? What if I put on 20" wheels with better tires? Will changing the wheel/tire config in the car change the top speed, or do I need to go to Tesla or use Toolbox to change it?

At this rate I'll be trying a lucid when I'm ready to move on from the S

We got more than I expected. Since the first day this "refresh" was rumored I said I'd be surprised if it was more than the front bumper camera and interior ambient lighting that had already been rumored for a year before.

On HW4 models, maybe.

No, you're right. The internet just blew the whole thing up way out of proportion and has predictably disappointed itself.

The cheapest R1S undercuts the X by $15k.

Yeah. Who road trips with families, right?

The 911 generations have evolved over time but if you park them next to each other, they look very different and are obviously different. There has been basically 1 model X style and the Model S has had 2 because of the nose cone. Otherwise they are almost indistinguishable throughout their life. i think they need to do a lot to be competitive with the current lineup of EVs in the same price point.

Eh, I have a 2019 (raven) with just under 100k miles. The doors are actually really useful for kids in carseats. We have not had any issues with the doors... cant be said for the vehicle overall, but the doors have been reliable. I'd be fine if they just went full minivan and had sliding doors and dropped the price though.

They are awesome for loading kids in car seats.

I can understand them having some use but I think the complexity is completely unnecessary especially for a vehicle in this price range. Kids and cars seats, it’s manageable even in a Model 3

They need to add RWS on the S/X. They are both big enough with crappy enough turning radius's that RWS would be awesome, not to mention most of their competition has it as an option.

If you don’t want the fancy doors, buy a Model Y. I don’t see the argument for removing them. They’re not problematic either unless they’re problematic from the factory.

I never have issues with them especially in tight spaces. The *only* time I would be cautious is if there are thin structures above that aren’t detectable by ultrasonic sensors like an outdoor chandelier (yes, have seen this before). Bystanders feel the same way you do but I don’t hesitate to show them how accurate they are.

I disagree to an extent... i think for the price range, they do need something special to differentiate it from a normal car. Unfortunately sliding doors are not it but I would love it as they are 90% as good but mechanically much simpler. Of course its manageable to put kids in car seats in any kind of car but I can't emphasize enough how much easier it is to be able to put a car seat in a base or buckle a kid into a car seat without bending over to do it.

The forum posts are likely from folks who have had issues from the factory. If you have issues with those at delivery, you may not want to accept delivery. Otherwise, zero issues whatsoever.

Please enlighten us to a model Y that can comfortably fit 6-7 full size adults.

Holy shit, the new 21-inch wheels look terrible; they belong in a fast and Furious movie from 2000

That increase can probably be done with a few strategically placed pieces of duct tape.

Why do you need it? What will you do with it?

I agree with this. Why change something that is good. I'd much rather them spend the time doing work on the functionality than the looks. The car looks good. But swiveling hitch would be nice and of course the battery improvements. Also just work on the Roadster 2 and get it out.

That is just not enough. Both, model x and s look outdated. And the interior feels more like a modely/3. Teslas model x and s are falling behind.

Such a small refresh. Hope they are just trying to eek out sales before Roadster 2 release.

Truly a pathetic upate. Wow, a front camera. Wow, new wheels. Wow, a different paint color. Still offering a yoke with no steer-by-wire. There's no way Tesla actually thinks this is a competitive update in the current marketplace. At this point I can't wait to see what the Polestar 5 brings.

> They’re near perfect as they are. Have you read anything about the tech stack of Cybertruck?

Not sure, would be interesting to figure out. I know you can change the wheel setting in the car to another type of stock wheel

Haven't been following Tesla for a long time, why aren't they using the 4680 format that they themself have pioneered?

Sure, but the 911 has slowly evolved over, what, 65 years now!

Of course it’s easier, it’s a bigger vehicle after all. But $50K easier? Hardly think so.

The refresh of the refresh of the refresh.

Never really needed to use them in tight spaces anyways. It’s a minimal use case that has other solutions. Not worth the extra cost, and wish they’d ditch them. You’re entitled to disagree. No need to be rude about it.

There have been six completely new 911s over the years.

We needed a completely new car. 13 years is too long and the sales numbers prove it.

If you put a 911 992.1 (2018) vs a 992.2 (2024) next to another you can clearly see the difference. Although I'd agree that it's less than the difference between models (like a GTS vs Turbo) The Model S hasn't really changed since 2015. And this new redesign seems to be less than the 911 redesigns.

Nah, they’ve developed issues over time. I actually despise the front doors more. They have a mind of their own.

The use case is every single adjacent pull-in/back in parking spot. Every parking garage. You’ve never had a use case? How have you never parked on a tight spot…. In 6 years? Increasingly seems like you’re just making things up and got called out on it 🤷‍♂️

Have had the refreshed M3P for almost a year now, and while it hasn't really ever been an issue I would still love to have a front bumper cam. Would instantly purchase a retrofit.

If it's designed properly it's basically no issue to switch layout. They've sold S/X in RHD markets before when they were a much smaller company.

The 4680 sucks , thats why

People who have never owned the X hate them, owners love them. Unarguably.

IIRC they never figured out the mass manufacturing

Without 800v architecture, I just don’t find these compelling. Charging curve is probably the same, which is pretty average. Why would I buy a model s over a model 3? 3 is so much cheaper and has like 80% of the features of an S.

I agree. Jeep also comes to mind as having a somewhat timeless design. With Elon’s heel turn, there’s also the added downside of buying new teslas being (correctly) seen as supporting fascism. So a full redesign might actually hurt sales.

Yes

Because they are not actually very good. They never reached the cell quality they wanted (the internal resistance was too high), which meant that the cells got very hot. That meant cooling became a problem because the cells are much larger and with the high internal resistance, there is more heat to dissipate relative to the cell surface.

I’d like to know as well. Doesn’t appear to be any larger so curious how they got more space

Just crunched the math. The top speed change is proportional to the additional circumference of the wheel. The actual limit is most likely an RPM limit on the motor. Getting the CCB probably comes with a software change that lets the motor go above the regular limit when in Track mode. TLDR bigger wheel, higher top speed.

Needs more than a refresh. A complete facelift/new model

Tesla prices are being cut in China.

improved aerodynamics? so the exterior design has changed? i dont see any difference

Stupid sexy doors Also, look at me. I'm a bird

The circumference is the same. Larger wheel, slimmer tire. Smaller wheel, larger tire.

Still a gas car!

I guess it's as niche as the bmw 5 series which it competes with? Those have gone through 3 generations since 2012.

Steel?

Lmao. Aluminum.

To me this feels like a scramble to just improve image and sales. It doesn’t feel planned at all.

People need to realize this is deliberate. If you want an EV with longer range you just put in a bigger battery, However, you need to trade off against cost, unit production volume, handling ect. Just because battery tech advances every year doesn't mean you can incorporate it at scale every year. Low cost comes from high volume production. You have a tech and need to scale it into the millions of units for it to be economical. Not just with the battery but every aspect of the car. Tesla will contract supply of 0.5- 1 million units of a wing mirror at a time. Thus, they wont upgrade the wing mirror until they have worked through their current contracted supply. If you change tech every year, you would constrain your volume and cost efficiency. Tesla have deliberately maintained a certain size of battery and used gains purely from things like aero efficiency, tire development etc. This is why they sell vehicles with a margin, unlike pretty much most other EV offerings. Its also easy to sell a car really cheap. Small battery, poor quality. The actual difficult is making a high quality capable product for affordable prices with profit margin. Thus far, 2 decades on, Tesla is still the only company thus far able to do that combination. here are lower cost models, more premium models, but best value for your money remains Tesla.

Also they can't compete - why would I buy the S/X over an electric premium car from BMW or Mercedes (especially with the neue Klasse). Compare the i7 to the model s, it's a joke to even call the S a "premium" or "luxury" car

My understanding was that it was related to the ability of the battery to output power. I thought the Munro teardown discussed it but my memory may be bad.

People want a true 3rd row SUV

They need to come up with another word besides refresh to describe the changes. It's not that much different than the car sold just 2 weeks ago.

It’s absolutely cheaper.

It's crazy the highland is the only vehicle without the front camera now

I would choose an S/X over legacy luxury because I can't stand crappy software, even though I do appreciate the superior luxury of those cars.

Agree - such a disappointing minor refresh. They should have done a major range increase, HW5, etc. Plus a price increase for really very little changes. What is happening with Tesla?

They aren't even in the luxury segment. When you drive a competitor it isn't even close. They do a good job with range but that's about it.

A lot of that niche already have an older model S, and this is giving them zero reason to buy a new one. I’d have ordered one already if it had steer by wire and a updated design, but I guess I’ll just drive this 2016 90D around for a few more years and then buy something else if it dies before an actual refresh comes out. No one spending $90K+ on a car wants to feel like they’re driving something 10 years old. Not updating a design for 5+ years makes sense for work trucks but not flagship luxury sedans. But 10 years now? You’ve got to be kidding me. Like I think they’ve actually done more harm than good with this refresh, since anyone who was in the market for a new luxury EV knows it’ll be another few years now before the potential of an actual upgrade to the S, so they might as well scratch the S off their list and buy something else. At this point it’s like they’re doing everything they can to make sure no one buys an S ever again.

It goes to show you how much people want something that they’re refusing to deliver, and they wonder why the sales are so low?

Not sure thats a good comparison, because BMW will charge you over twice as much for a car that has less range, and less power/acceleration and less features. I drove BMW for 10 years before getting into my Model 3.

Mercedes like looks like an EGG. BMW behind in Tech, slower, less range, shitty charging network, not a tesla...

Agree

I don't know about twice as expensive, the i7 starts at $105k and is a significantly more luxurious car.

They planning on releasing 7 seater Y, its in the works. Comfortable idk...

I havent had an issue. But yeh less moving parts to worry about.

Personally, Love the design seems ageless, it serves its purpose low drag coefficient, why change something that benifical and reduces unnecessary cost.

Unpopular opinion love not having turn signal stalk, the one on my yoke is fine for my everday use.

I assume they have plenty of production capacity from the 18650 factory. Best to use it than to shut it down. I'm sure there is enough capacity that they can tweak cell design without shutting down the line.

What does more space in third row mean for the X!? Seems like the X got the short end of the stick…

inflation

So do.... Nothing?

Falcon doors are a solution to a solved problem. Sliding doors are far superior in every way.

What kind of family drives for more than 3 hours without stopping?

How are you so certain if you don’t even own or have never owned one? It’s like when ICE car owners talk about how certain they are EVs are bad and not dependable and so on so forth lol.

Tesla imports 18650s from Panasonic in Asia. The 2170 is made by Panasonic in Nevada. The 4680 is made by Tesla in California and Texas.

I own a 2019 pre Raven MX 6 seat 100D. I’d really like to upgrade and wait for every “refresh” but I have a laundry list of MX wants before that: 1. Power frunk open/close 2. Higher output headlights 3. Paint matched exterior front bumper lower, side skirts & door lowers, rear bumper & diffuser, wheel arch trims 4. 2nd row captain chairs inner arm rests 5. Power up/down third row seats 6. Power sunshade for front windshield 7. Third row screen on roof like 2nd row 8. Kneel mode where it goes to its lowest setting when put in park like a Rivian 9. Headed/Ventilated all 6 seats 10. Power sun shades in 2nd row doors BONUS…Actual 300 mi range & FSD lol (it was rated for 295 & I bought FSD for $5k then, does great now but 6 years later)

Same here!

The Model S’ biggest issue? It has no vision. In 2012, it did everything decent, was pretty quick, technology advanced, had great range, somewhat luxurious and an okay purchasing and ownership experience. In 2025 when there are a billion competitors, EV and otherwise, the Model S feels decidedly uninspired, the Jack of some trades, master of one. I own a new Mercedes S class, and a Model S, and I can tell you which 6 figure car I would buy again. It’s no longer the biggest baddest fox, and needs to have a distinct image it’s going for if it wants to really take sales from anyone else.

Very unimpressive, especially compared to its competition from China and Germany and even the little US start-ups. I guess this confirms what Musk has been saying: Tesla is no longer interested in being an auto manufacturer, it wants to be an AI/Robot/robotaxi company. Model 3 / Y are cash cows to fund the transition.

Reports came out today about suspected 7-seater refresh model becoming available. Also, the Model X has some solid competition/alternatives in that specific category of “family movers” with the R1S. I believe the R1S beats it out in both space and range. What makes the X stand out though *are* the doors. Another thing to mention is those doors are great for families and children because it makes getting in and out so easy.

What a sad attempt at a refresh. I had little expectations and I'm still disappointed. We were considering an X as our next car. It's nearly 100k now with little improvements. If you're going to charge that amount, I want to see some substantial changes (400+ mile range, faster charging, 4 wheel steering). They did basically the bare effort here, and didn't even really address sticking points for buyers. I doubt there are many people out there who were like "Gee, I'm so close to pulling the trigger on the X, I just wish it were 1 dB quiter on the road".

I think it’s pretty important for unsupervised FSD, especially navigating in the city and parking and what not.

I’m also curious. Maybe they moved the 2nd row forward lol

Maybe shallower wheel wells

That’s all taste and preference I suppose. I just don’t see any design as ageless. It’s clear that Tesla has been too busy focusing on other things and just don’t really care about the S and X anymore.

I would even take suicide doors tbh, but absolutely soft-close and maybe.

They sell so few of the S and X that they don't care about them anymore.

> Tesla is really trying to drag out sales of their models 3x longer than anyone else does You apparently have no idea how long some vehicles go without a refresh.

LOL

The 4680 cell is the first cell they ever produced themselves. Expecting them to outperform the competition from the get-go is just unrealistic. Batteries are really really hard to manufacture, and they have got to the point where they compete on price, but not on power-density with the 18650. Mainly because smaller batteries are easier to cool. But competing on price is amazing, because they haven’t got huge scale yet, and they’ve introduced new, power-saving processes. The dry-electrode processing will help them get to the top eventually, but it’s a long hard slog getting the details optimal.

Yep, exactly. >Although I'd agree that it's less than the difference between models (like a GTS vs Turbo) I mean then you gotta compare the S long range to the S Plaid... which again, Tesla does so little between the two.

even between generations they are notably different.

and the crowd goes mild!

While they do need a full overhaul eventually, I don't think this is as small of a refresh as people keep saying. They are not large volume cars to begin with, but the updates they have done have been much wanted and needed, and should help the daily enjoyment quite a bit. It's not all that different from the updates the 3 and Y received. They are much nicer than they have ever been, but they are far from a total overhaul. We have to remember, many updates happen underneath and are not really mentioned. With the cybertruck now out and them working out the kinks more, it shouldn't be too much longer that many of those advancements come down to the S and X, then down to the 3 and Y. Not to mention the supposed other models they are working on. I'd love to see an actual Tesla engineer comment on the internal reworkings they have done. Maybe Munroe and associates will help fill us all in on changes we don't yet see.

Only bc they're the best selling version of all the comparable cars in Europe.

Tesla has confirmed that the front bumper cameras on their cars enables enhanced visibility when using Autopilot and Actually Smart Summon. So it’s important for Model 3 as well

Was really hoping these cars were going to take some of the improvements from the Cybertruck - steer by wire, 48V architecture, rear wheel steering, etc.

You could get a free shirt in *any* color?

If they keep refreshing like this, BMW is going to come along and eat their lunch in the luxury market. Which maybe they're okay with. But it's still an odd shift.

2018 MX owner - I hate them. Ultrasonic sensor is unreliable (detects something when there’s nothing so I need to override it to open all the way), I can’t have roof racks, and if there’s debris caught in the seals, rain water drips inside the car when you open the doors. If I had a kid and car seats, I’m sure they’d be great. But I don’t.

And it still won't come to the RHD market....

What does the model S need to refresh? It looks great…

They already lie enough about range as it is; doubt they could wring any more miles out of the lie.

Let off the fun peddle 4-5% and enjoy the same gains. Pump the tyres up 2-3psi and get the same gains again.

Mg however charge less then 1/3 and you get more range and way more power.

Because it has FSD.

....what do you mean you ***physically*** can't believe it? lol. Like your brain is missing the neurons and lobes that grant humans the ability to conceive and process the concept of belief and disbelief....or what?

There's an electric Escalade

I guess I should clarify. I don't want to spend nearly double for a 7 passenger. The cheapest R1S is ~70% more than a Model Y.

Most car companies call this a new model year instead of a refresh.

Lmao. Tell me you’ve never put 7 people in a MY without telling me…. They’re not remotely comparable vehicles.

At the very least they could have finally 'close' the nose cone.

No steer by wire?!

When are they getting out of tear drop shapes?

How did the X get more range?

You’re embarrassing yourself here

BMW I7 is a great example. It's $105,700 for the cheapest starting base model. With a few tiny add ons it easily exceeds 113k+ (not to mention that some of those add ons are things Tesla offers for free like auto pilot which is a $2000 bmw feature) The i7 has 301-314 miles of range and 5.3 second 0-60. The model 3 base model has more range at 363 and faster with 4.9 second 0-60.. For $42,000. So yes I'd say BMW is twice as expensive, with less performance, and without being twice the car of Tesla.

New S plaid sport wheels look hideous imo. Really like the new X 22” wheels though!!!

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The CyberTruck is worth it to them though? Can you explain why that is? I would think a luxury SUV and a preformance sedan would both sell better than the CT, particularly when stacked against the Lightning and Silverado EV

If your only metric on buying a luxury sedan is performance, sure.

or the range...? Or the features? I drove a 2025 BMW M3 competition for several days recently and that car didn't even have a power trunk. The AC also didn't work, and the car only had 3000 miles, yet it cost like $90-$100k, which is absurd. My 2020 BMW, if I wanted ventilated seats, was like a $1400 option. They also charge extra if you want dash recorder, heated rear seats, heated steering, or a nice sound system (all things that come free on a Tesla). I also never got a meaningful update in the 9 years that I drove BMW, none of the software updates added anything extra or useful, it was all bug fixes etc.. Since having my Tesla for the last several months, I've already got multiple updates that helps with performance and quality of life.

Top speed for the new model s plaid dropped to 149???? Wtf

> If your only metric on buying a luxury sedan is performance > Or the ... mentions a performance sedan The value proposition on BMW M products gets thrown out the window because they are supposed to be made to handle track use. Unlike the Tesla, it is properly braked out of the factory.

I don’t think you get what I’m saying. I want a 7-passenger EV in the 50k range. I’m not saying the r1s isn’t better than the Y. I want a 7 passenger Arv without paying nearly 2X the cost of a Y.

Im waiting for model 2.

>Tesla seems to have been distracted with dumbass projects and other endeavors - DOGE!!!

I'm sure they're better in 2025 than in 2018...

Then where is the money going?

These (Model S and X) are low-volume, high-end cars that Tesla’s basically keeping around for nostalgia. There’s no real business case to pour R&D into a full revamp when the 3 and Y are doing all the heavy lifting. I’ve owned three Model S’s, so trust me, I want a full redesign—but I just don’t think it’s coming. But a larger MY no attention grabbing gullwings, yep! Would love to see 48V architecture, a new look like the Junipers (that light bar is slick), way nicer interior, and some proper paint colours—like Porsche-style Chalk, Coffee Beige Metallic, or even a nice deep green. Something with a bit of, dare I say. soul?! But honestly, it feels like Tesla’s moving in the opposite direction, packing more premium features into the 3 and Y and just charging extra for them. They’re already doing it with the Launch Edition Y. Makes business sense, but as someone who’s stuck with the S for years, it’s a bit of a letdown.

“Prestige”

no exterior visual update. Bedge

I’m sure they are. But to say that all MX owners unarguably love the FWD is inaccurate (even ignoring the roof rack thing)

I mean you can't say all XYZ owners unarguably love literally anything lol. But just like factually two of the things you complained about I believe were things they've addressed by now if I'm not mistaken - the Unreliable sensor and water dripping in due to poor sealing... The roof rack is definitely a negative, but again everyone buying that vehicle knows you need to put whatever normally would go on the roof on the tow hitch instead.

> People who have never owned the X hate them, owners love them. Unarguably. The comment I was responding to. > Unreliable sensor and water dripping in due to poor sealing Neither of these seem like things that they couldn’t retrofit/fix on an older vehicle, given they don’t seem like they’d involve a redesigned major part (obviously I could be wrong). But since the current seal drips water when debris builds up and I get lazy cleaning it, it doesn’t seem like there’d be a major fix there. > tow hitch instead That was my plan but I found out later that while it supports 5k lbs of load + 500lb tongue weight, that’s only applicable for a trailer. It only supports 120lbs of vertical weight, so a hitch box is going to be quite limited.

>That was my plan but I found out later that while it supports 5k lbs of load + 500lb tongue weight, that’s only applicable for a trailer. It only supports 120lbs of vertical weight, so a hitch box is going to be quite limited. Yeah that is true. Though there is definitely a safety factor there, and it's based on a load 2 feet away from the receiver basically. Also pretty sure Tesla is the only one that really even differentiates between vertical load and tongue weight. I'd assume it's due to how they attach their hitch to the vehicle or something, or what kind of hitch they use, or maybe causes it's aluminum or something. But just realistically, even though it says 120lbs max, if you got a light weight rack that is as close to the rear as possible (maybe 1ft instead of 2?) and stacked heaviest objects closer to rear of vehicle to reduce the moment arm, I definitely think you could carry closer to 180lbs no problem. For example the Cybertruck is only rated to hold 160lbs vertical (and 1,100 tongue weight) vs Model X's 120lbs (and what like 500lb tongue weight?). Yet: [https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1851748091378143337](https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1851748091378143337) As the 2nd graphic shows, as the Center of mass to the pin gets closer, the weight capacity gets closer to the tongue weight. Its like if you had a ball with a mass of 500lbs you could safely secure it vertically directly on the hitch. But you go out 12" and that drops to say 300lbs, you go out another 12" and now your at 120lbs, etc.... But I'm sure cybertruck has a better hitch than the X... Also wouldn't be surprised if there is an upgraded Tow Hitch option from some 3rd party that you could get that would significantly increase this capability....

They don’t want to increase range. They will reduce pack size which makes the company more profitable and reduces customer vehicle weight. Obviously there are downsides but until the market shows a preference for longer range vehicles, I don’t believe Tesla will do anything to increase the capacity.

And I can buy that on the main stream vehicles but I think Lucid is right that halo cars at $100k for touring should be like 500

Bullish! 500 usd here we come!

Why would you compare BMW’s largest luxury sedan to a Model 3? Tesla doesn’t even offer a sedan to compare with the i7 I mean if the only metric you care about is having 4 doors then sure I guess the Model 3 is better in some ways

Dry cell 6850. This is the ONLY way to excite me to another tesla.

Elon moved to Texas and became enamored with electric pickups, hence the shelving of the Roadster and redirecting all development resources to the CT. Which then flopped hard.

I've always seen the S design as ageless myself, after the initial refresh anyway. As soon as they got rid of the fake grille, I've considered the S the best looking car, really regardless of model year, and that hasn't changed.  In fact, to me, that is part of the appeal. A 2019 Model S does not look "dated" compared to the newer ones. If I buy a used or new one, I know it won't look out of style for a very long time, perhaps ever. But yes, this does come down to preference. Mine simply aligns with the S

I feel like the last refresh nailed it. Once they fixed the center console and the cooled seating very content. Maybe massaging seats?

Still waiting for Atmos support

Fremont rent

this seems to happen with all new battery technologies, things touted as being next gen and revolutionary and then it never makes it the actual market, or if it does its prohibitively expensive or a very niche application

I’m still very content with my M3P 23 even though I do like the new M3 design. I never owned a BMW / Mercedes. I hope this car lasts me 10 years! Roadster would be a nice purchase then :)

I don’t get the point of the model 3 over the S. the S is way more practical and looks much nicer and more luxurious. The X is overly complex and doesn’t really have a significant USP over the Y as a DD. Hence, I think core Tesla cars should be the S and Y. The dominate the market segment and none of their competition really stacks up to them (eg EV6/9 or VW iD vs Y, i4 vs S)

Other than Waze I can’t think of any way the EV9 is ahead of Tesla (can’t say for the X, but I drove the ev9 and model y and picked the Y over the former).

Only dumb people think it’s somehow related to fascism.

The big thing I was hoping to see is the return of indicator stalks. I really don’t like the string wheel indicators, which this still appears to have?