Saw this today... could this be the first tests for FSD unsupervised?

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Cybercab camera locations. This is basically cybercab testing.

Very interesting. Window camera is the exact placement for cybercab's cameras as well as the skewed fender camera so it's likely this is a test mule for cybercab validation, but it's beyond me what it's doing all the way up in NH.

This is for a new model thats not launched yet and being tested.

It looks like they’re just building Cybercab’s FSD profile without driving them on the road.

I'm glad to see some of the base training vehicles are getting far and wide from California, should hopefully help improve performance in other weather and road conditions.

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The training vehicles are the cars we drive. This is a validation vehicle.

But why not use the cybercabs themselves?! Aren’t they supposed to launch in like 2 months? Surely they have enough already built.

You can have humans doing intervention in these Hard to do that in a cyber cab without a steering wheel

Do you really think he already has them built or are you joking?

Most of the Elon promises are broken

No cybercabs aren't supposed to launch in 2 months they're 2026

I hope for Teslas sake, that it is not case in here. Cybercab is very big and unpractical 2 seater car. If Tesla is going to compete with european and asian car firms, they need to have other normal models than 3 and Y. Next gen should be smaller than current models and are 5 seater cars. Almost every other brand has now car models in segments C and B and some even in A, competition in those segmengs has just started and Tesla does not have any models for those segments.

Nonsense. The Toyota Camry platform dominates many international markets and it is full size. Size is not the issue.

Ya there is a 0% chance he has these built.

Camry is a rare sight in Europe

True this, never ever heard of this car except for US centric conversations

I just hope they slap a back seat bench and a drive by wire steering wheel, call it Model B and go to the pub

Nonsense. See them across Poland and East. Popular Uber car too. Especially hybrids.

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While other car brands spit out new models in all segments quite regularly, in recent years Tesla only managed 1 new car, 1 facelift and 1 concept car that is even more questionable than cybertruck. Even without Elon antics, this is quite a low output. Tesla is not ahead of the competition, it is pretty much struggling behind Chinese automakers now.

Camry dominates so well that I had to google that model... And to think that every other car brands are just stupid when they are bringing models to A, B and C segments and Tesla knows better. The best-selling car model in many countries is the Toyota Corolla. Unfortunately, it does not yet directly indicate the size of the car, because the same Corolla is sold in many different segments (i.e. in many different sizes). But used car websites allow you to search by more specific model of the car. I did a search on the largest used car website in my country (which covers about 95% of all cars in my country). I focused my search only on the latest model series of the Toyota Corolla and here are the results: 59% wagon 29% hatchback 8% sedan the rest were such that the exact model was not listed in their information, but according to the pictures it seems that there are estates and hatchbacks I could not refine the search so that I would have been able to separate urban areas and rural areas, but in rural areas wagons are the most popular (from all brands) and in cities short hatchbacks. I come from a rural area and there aren't many cars there other than wagons.

Sure but it’s not ”dominating many markets”, it’s sells enough in many markets to make it on maybe top 20-lists. I only see them as Ubers cause they have a deal here in the nordics.

Big? Cybercab is tiny. Significantly smaller than a Model 3/Y. But obviously the cheaper vehicle(s) they're planning to release this summer are not Cybercab and won't have two seats.

What are you talking about? People literally rode in them at the reveal event back in October. Of course they have prototypes built.

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Do you think this video is CGI or something?: https://youtu.be/ypLwacbff3s Why is this so hard to believe for you? These prototypes obviously exist. We've seen them driving around. You can see it for yourself if you watch that video. Mass producing this car and selling it to the public as an autonomous car that can drive itself on public roads without a steering wheel and pedals obviously does warrant some skepticism and hasn't been proven yet, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're literally just talking about them building a few prototypes, which they've obviously done because we've literally seen them.

They don’t have manual controls for a test driver.

This isn’t additional hardware, it’s just repositioned hardware so that the cameras “see” the same as the Cybercab. Exception may be the front bumper cam, which might become a retrofit.

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What? Prototypes always need hardware and software refinements. If it was a final version without need of refinement, it wouldn't be a prototype. But whatever you want to call it doesn't really matter. I just threw out that word. The point is they do have several of them built. Obviously not as a final product, but nobody ever said that.

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It's ok! Thank you for being reasonable afterward and not doubling down. That's a rarity on Reddit.

Teslas approach to vehicles is the same as Apples approach to phones. Other manufacturers split their sales across way too many models, and Apple/Tesla try to make what people want. There’s a reason the model Y is the worlds most sold car and the VW T-Roc isn’t anywhere near that list. Manufacturers that don’t innovate make design products to cater to people’s preferences and split their sales across way more variants than they really need. Tesla was on a really good roll to probably be world leaders in cost amortization, but when the boss decides to really throw the brand equity under the bus… I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Mostly because they didn’t sell the model here for the best part of 20 years.

they're not using the actual cybercab prototypes for FSD testing because they don't have driver inputs and would not allow for human intervention

Their ride-hailing service will begin in a few months, tentatively. Using existing models. Cybercab production will start at best very late this year, but most likely next year (at least for any scale). That’s if the company survives for that long.

It is an iPhone but outdated and designed for people with money and huge pockets. Meantime BYD and other Chinese car makers already ahead of tesla in price, selection of models, features and/or quality.

Oh come on, all manufacturers are behind Chinese automotive industry.

You have a sedan, an SUV, a large SUV, a pick up, they are planning on launching a sportscar that can compete with supercars, and they are now planning on launching a smaller economical model as well as a cyber cab. What else do you want them to launch?

In two “Musk months” perhaps 🤔

?? So are they going to launch Cybercabs in 2 months without really conducting extended comprehensive testing? 🤷🏻‍♂️. Testing on other models doesn’t confirm performance on Cybercab.

The above pictures are of a mule for cybercab camera positions. It is part of cybercab testing. There may be a few cybercabs in the mix when Robotaxi starts service in a few months along with dozens of at least Model Y.

Tell me about it. Who did he think he was fooling with that fake ‘saving the astronauts’ deepfake.

for ones who don't know what fsd is and to save you from googling (i had to)... fsd = full self driving my ocd...can you define your acronym for ones like myself that don't know every acronym? thanks

The 2 seater was such a strange choice. Like it sorta makes sense but then when I think about taking uber / cabs in the city it’s never just 2 people.

That thing is not even in the top 50 best selling cars last year, so i would not call it dominating.

Pretty standard acronym in the world of Tesla to be fair.

And FSD is a paid upgrade. Whoever paid for it deserves whatever free hardware upgrades are required to make it work, or a full refund on the price paid.

yea agree although at the moment im not totally in the tesla world, yet.

kiss plant alive thumb quiet instinctive rainstorm quaint hurry ten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

Its the smartest choice for ride sharing. You really think Tesla didn't analyze market data to try to optimize? https://grok.com/share/bGVnYWN5_a72ab25b-7662-4602-98ca-7dc410cda5fa Any more than 2 people and you can.... just order more than 1 Cybercab.

Easy answer: They don't intend to stay contained in Texas.

This is exactly like reading about all the "iPhone killers" a decade ago. You can buy *this* phone for better battery or *that* phone for better screen or *this other phone* for more ram or *this one* for more .....

They aren't launching Cybercabs in 2 months. The autonomous taxi service starting in Austin this summer will be using existing models.

*tiny*? It’s 10” longer than my Kia Soul, and 10” shorter than the three-row Mitsubishi Outlander.

> No cybercabs aren't supposed to launch in 2 months they're 2026 Volume production in 2026, pilot production will start in 2025 or may have already started. We have no proof on current rates of production.

100% - I have a HW3 M3, I occasionally will buy a month of FSD for road-trips or to see what improvements have been made on new versions, but a few years down the line if there is an option to pay to have my car upgraded (since I didn't buy the package outright) I would seriously weigh that against a new Tesla.

Closed course

I thought Elon said they’d start service in Austin in summer 2025?

You are thinking about Cybertruck, not Cybercab.

In fact I am not. Those measurements don’t even remotely make sense if I were talking about the Cybertruck instead

model 3/Y are planned to be used alongside cybercab for the rides with more than 2 customers

Tesla has been doing FSD "unsupervised" testing for almost a decade now.

It's about two feet shorter than the Kia soul

According to an informal poll of uber drivers, about 80% of rides are solo. Only 10% or less have more than 2 people.  Maybe if your use case is “out to the pub with friends” it feels different but a TON of uber rides are “I need to go the store and don’t have a car” or “I need a ride to the airport” or “I’m meeting a friend downtown” or whatever.

The cybercab is 231.7" while a kia soul is 165.2" so in fact he is right the cybercab is much longer than the soul

They already have a sports car, they're planning on launching a super car

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What do you consider a sports car?

The sports car is the model s plaid due to its acceleration and top speed even tho it's technically a luxury sedan. But if you're not gonna consider the plaid the sports car which is fair then tesla still isn't coming out with a sports car as the roadster is a super car

Kind of looks like a model 3 outfitted to have camera placement similar to the Cybercab.

Lol 231 is pickup truck size. You obviously got the wrong information.

This looks like "2-years away if everything goes well"-material.

Looks like an AI generated photo ngl

He said autonomous testing. I don’t think he specified the fleet.

Love my Tesla and FSD, but I would not trust it Unsupervised 100%, even though the summon feature works really good

Kia Soul is tiny. Cybercab also 9 inches narrower than a Kia Soul. (And keep in mind these are just measurements someone took with a measuring tape, so they might not be accurate.)

New Hampshire has had laws on the books since 2019 allowing self driving cars. I'd bet that NH's friendly laws will make it one of the earlier places where expansion occurs after Texas.

Unfortunately I don't think it's that simple. 1. The wall/barrier behind the seats is structural. Cant just take that out. 2. They would also need side mirrors, larger battery, better brakes, more power if it is going to be human operated. For better or worse they aren't designing something that is meant to be a "car" in the way people think about them today.

Does it come with supercharger auto-cable-insertion technology as well?   I know, induction charging is here/coming soon.

It's supposed to be coming out with a smaller variant of the 3 or y this year.

Could be HW4 retrofit for HW3 testing.

It’s not a precision measurement but it’s not going to be off by more than a few inches. You could argue that the Kia Soul is small but by no means is it tiny, especially by global standards.

Cybercab is supposed to launch in two months in the same way we were supposed to have full self driving five years ago.

Pretty sure the m3/Y robotaxi was nothing but a marketing hype gimmick and now they want to sell cybercabs and m3/Ys would cannablize those sales. I haven't seen anything about robotaxi software in any 'upcoming' features for FSD and they notably left it out of the cybercab event as well.

But that costs twice as much and puts twice as many cars on the road. Oh wait, that's the point.

They could connect a wireless steering wheel through bluetooth.

Seems safer to do it in a modified model 3

Dude that doesn't know about the freaking camry comes in here and argue what car people should make. Also dude who is a Fin making broad sweeping statements about global car markets.

If Elon had focused on what he promised years ago, instead of getting into american politics, maybe we'd have FSD by now.

8 years - initially promised in 2017 - I assume FSD has to be in place for cybercab? If so, I would say that is a pretty steep promise considering how my FSD performs today.

Or just summon a Model 3 instead of a Cybercab. There’s already millions of them on the road - they’ll outnumber the Cybercabs for the first two years at least.

So it’ll actually take twice as long and be launching in four months? I think you reinforced the point instead of rebuking it…

I’m sure hundreds of thousands of people have FSD today, correct? I purchased the car in 2017 and pre-paid for FSD, with the promise of FSD functionality at the end of the same year. That was the year Musk was going to take the coast to coast road trip fully using FSD. I have been hardware upgraded to FSD 3.5 cameras and computer (from HW2). There is almost no door to door route I can take without some kind of intervention or disengagement. It has obviously improved over the last 5 years, but it will have to take another 5 years (at exponential growth rate) to be completely automated. Also, it doesn’t function, or shuts off, in light fog, rain slicked streets, heavy rain, or snow. I’m being purely objective here Does anyone who has and use FSD today think that is not the case? Under what conditions would cybercab be operational by 2026?

Robotaxi not cybercab in June

You huffing paint bro? What makes you think they need to compete with anyone across multiple segments? I don’t see lucid or rivian stressing

No. It will go that a special charging center where humans will plug it in until the inductive charging is worked out. Probably just like waymo does now.

Strange thing to be butthurt about. Even the commentator who talked about the Camry seems to be from a country where the best-selling car is Toyota's Corolla. Camry doesn't even make it into the top 10 best-selling cars in that country. In fact, camry has sold so "well" in Europe that Toyota didn't even release the latest Camry model in Europe.

How do Rivian and Lucid even fit into the whole discussion? They are very small niche manufacturers that sell very small numbers of cars and only in one car market. Tesla makes and sells cars on a global scale, competing with large manufacturers such as Volkswagen Group, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz Group, BYD, Geely, Hyundai/Kia, BMW Group, Renault, Stellantis and other big manufacturers.

Who cares? It's over.

What FSD are you running?

Also cybercab's aren't approved to be driven on most roads, and people would be driving unnatrually around them. Its far easier for testing to use a mule like this.

I think it’ll be like waymo cabs where it’s just barely passable. Just one of few promises Tesla cant keep. 35k cybertruck, roadster by 2024, fsd on hw3, fsd by the end of 202x etc…

This. US cars are many things, but they are far from the global default

My plaid already compares with supercars...perhaps you mean in the looks/exclusivity department.

Tesla is obviously a niche manufacturer bro cmon now…..just because they’re a bigger niche manufacturer doesn’t change anything. You’re aware Tesla alone is valued more than all of those companies you named combined right? I think they’re doing fine

They’re not using the cyber cab because they probably don’t have certification yet to test it on public roads(also I forget if the cyber cab has steering wheel and pedals, that would be a safety issue when testing or finalizing the software if they can’t manually control the car). Also they need to test FSD unsupervised at some point on current hardware and/or next gen hardware.

Don’t believe there’s any 3.5. You have hardware 3. Hw 3 is good as an assistant but still makes simple mistakes. HW4 is great. A lot of drives you don’t touch the steering wheel until the end of the drive. It’s not perfect and likely won’t be close to that this year or ever but HW4 feels like it can be good enough for most unsupervised self driving with more refinement.

This. They only need to make it barely good enough which HW4 clearly shows it can be. For most drives I don’t touch the steering wheel until I reached my destination. With some more refinement, they can program in some emergency fail safes to pull over and recalculate when those few FSD issues do come up. For the cyber cab (operated by Tesla) they could even consider allowing it to learn since the neural net is frozen on the normal Teslas.

I think that’s realistic but Tesla might try to push it with barely passable reliability like FSD on HW3 and then refine it over two years to a point like where HW4 is now.

Doesn't have to be the cybercab... you can pick people up with a Model 3 too.

That would be awesome but others pointed out the cameras are exactly where the cyber cab is. I sold my Model 3 with hw3 to my parents and I’d really like them to try FSD with hardware 4. I wouldn’t trust them to be ok with HW3 FSD

Probably AI 5/6 testing. When I lived in Palo Alto in 2020 I was running around & saw testing of AI 4, particularly the stereoscopic camera set up and that was years ahead of its time. I took the photos and @greentheonly on X (Twitter at the time) posted and tried to figure out what was going on since there were only two cameras. Well, years later now we know it was AI 4 computer. Thought I could reply with the photo, but it was a model 3 with two cameras and a board and a shit load of cables. Also had different cameras, not mounted quite as fancy as these. At the same time, I’ve also seen them out testing LIDAR so who knows they always seem to be years ahead of themselves on FSD computers 🤷‍♂️

Maybe in speed but I doubt it compares in handling with a McLaren. It's a very fast luxury sedan.

How does it compare to a hatchback Focus? That size is ideal imo even in Texas

Yeah in a drag race... Or more likely taking off at a red light on an empty highway in the middle of the night it's no question. Here I. Miami I've yet to meet anything I don't absolutely smoke...lambos, bugattis and McLarens for sure. On a track I'm sure I'd get destroyed but I'll never be on a track. Now don't get me wrong, those other cars are still better for a million other reasons and there is literally no comparison when talking about bragging rights in general if that's what you are into. Interesting video to watch from the perspective of people that love McLaren. https://youtu.be/ou4rlB1p01c

This would make it an ideal candidate for testing in winter weather.

I expect that it'll get so good that eventually Tesla will feel confident in taking the blame for any FSD related crashes. Then it'll be more widely adopted.

HW3 computers and cameras - upgraded by Tesla. Musk has said HW4 will also be upgraded, but no timeline. I’m not sure if it counts as a promise broken yet, but it is beginning to feel that way.

I've been wondering for a while now how well FSD does through Franconia Notch. It has the lowest speed limit (45 mph) of any Interstate Highway, although when I had a courier job that took me through it twice a day I would set my cruise control at 60, even at night during winter. One time I went through during a bad snow storm, and I couldn't see the road at all. I had to use the rumble strips to stay on the road - if my tires were rumbling I knew I was at least on tar. I was only doing about 25-30 and I was passing other cars.

No I mean the software, I’m sorry!

Looks like a mule cyber cab to me.

I’m running 12.6.4

I dunno, but it looks like it would be dangerous for the human driver to make a lane change to the right.

Use a Logitech D pad, like those submarine guys did up until the implosion.

F Tesla

They'd probably use a wired Logitech G F710. You know, just like the OceanGate Titan submersible.

I think Elon is testing Unsupervised...

I did the exact same thing.

Spotted one in Boston too, definitely from Tesla (see my last pic) and feels like Cybercab. Interestingly, the front cameras are different https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/BwVVLmZFpj

> Strange thing to be butthurt about. I think it is strange for you to be lecturing Tesla on the global car market with your completely warped view of actual car sales. > Even the commentator who talked about the Camry seems to be from a country where the best-selling car is Toyota's Corolla Firstly, you don't need to be an American to know about the Toyota Camry. It's popular enough globally, just like the VW Polo. You'd be calling Americans out for their American ignorance if they claimed that the VW Polo was a noname car because it isn't sold in the US - [but they are actually equally popular worldwide](https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0371q5,%2Fm%2F020sg1&hl=en-US) and both have sold over 20 million units. The Camry was the 6th best selling car globally as of 2024, right behind the Corolla too, and is arguably more popular globally than the Polo today. I don't think Europeans would go with Toyota over dominating European brands for sedans at least which is probably why it's not a common sight in Western Europe. Your eurocentrism has completely warped your views. Secondly, about your claims on A/B/C segment: > some even in A, competition in those segmengs has just started and Tesla does not have any models for those segments. The only places where these A segment cars are popular are countries where the population itself is physically more compact (Japan) or ultra urban anti-car countries with heavily declining birth rates (Western EU and also Japan). In almost every country, even European ones, SUVs and compact SUVs have gained in market share while other segments (especially A/B segment hatchbacks) have been declining. What data do you have to suggest that a smaller car from Tesla would shake up the market like all of their other cars? Especially given that you (and others) got the dimensions of the Cybercab wrong? Because [real data suggests otherwise](https://www.motor1.com/news/707996/vehicles-larger-than-ever-usa-europe/). The one commenter who talked about their Kia Soul being smaller than the Cybercab has a car which has consistently declined in global sales since 2018 because nobody wants small cars outside of the EU and Japan market. The reality is the exact opposite of your comment - the competition in those segments doesn't matter because the segment itself is shrinking. There's various reasons for the rise of compact SUVs - ranging from bad roads in Asia to just people thinking that small entry level cars are too small for their wealth. Or simply because their family needs more space, as is the reason for bigger cars in the US. And the only reason why compact cars are still holding up at all has to do with cramped parking and fuel prices. I don't think it's worth entering the market because at the pace Europe is urbanizing those cramped roads will be turned pedestrian only and the high fuel prices will be negated by solar. Tesla is not a niche brand like it was with the Model S anymore and it has no reason to make a niche car for cramped European spaces that predate the automobile. > Next gen should be smaller than current models and are 5 seater cars. Almost every other brand has now car models in segments C and B and Tesla Model Y is a compact SUV for what it is worth and is in fact, a C segment car which is why it is the best selling car in the world for the last 2 years. It's just small enough for the majority of the global car market while also being large enough for their main US market. I think the Model Y will actually influence Europe towards bigger cars - especially given that the next biggest competitor (ID4) is only 7 inches shorter. Every year from now on, European manufacturers will make slightly larger models. I can assure you the people who would even think about buying an A/B segment Tesla a year back in Western Europe are the same ones vandalizing them right now. Tesla shouldn't be taking advice from you.

Tiny? It's like a layflat business class seat on the inside. it's luxurious.

The car is tiny. It's physically much smaller than a Model 3, which is a fairly small sedan. I never said the seats aren't comfortable, but there are only two of them, and it's a very small car overall.

Well... after 2 Teslas I upgraded to a Lucid Air Pure. There are plenty of people looking for alternatives now.

It was not my intention to belittle Lucid, but it is a very small car manufacturer when compared to Tesla or, for example, Volkswagen, which have both produced millions of EVs (Tesla about 7 million and VW about 2.5 million).

Because they need a steering wheel.

Yea I'm never getting in a robotaxi that uses only cameras

They have the number one selling vehicle in America, in fact I think your missing the point. Tesla offers 4 vehicles ( and now the cyber truck which is a specialized vehicle) two affordable and two luxury cars. They sell like hot cakes. Let’s look at bmw for instance. they used to sell a 3 series, 5 series, 6 series, 7 series, x3 and x5. Now they sell 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 X1,X2,X3,X4,X5,X6,X7,X8,XM. On top of all the different variants on top of that. That’s 17 vehicles without counting the ZS or hybrids. They don’t need to match segments. Tesla has innovated what a car is, how you buy a car, and how you sell a car. Always being updated the cars don’t become outdated and they are absolutely dominating the market

Hopefully this is a bait car to catch the people doing damage to teslas. At least that’s what I like to think it is. 😂

I saw this car in Scarborough Maine while charging last week. Definitely not AI.