What’s coming next in FSD V14

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Tesla’s upcoming Full Self-Driving (FSD) version 14 will introduce auto-regressive transformers, enabling the system to predict the behavior of other road users more effectively. This advancement aims to enhance decision-making by anticipating actions, similar to human drivers. Additionally, FSD V14 will feature larger model and context sizes, optimized for AI4’s memory constraints, and will incorporate audio inputs for the first time. The release date remains unannounced, but it’s speculated that FSD V14 may be utilized in Tesla’s planned Robotaxi network launching in Texas this June.

When do I get it on HW3?

😭

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“Optimized for AI4’s memory constraints…” Ah shit…here we go again.

yeah I love going 15mph less than I asked and 5mph below the speed limit on the highway. cool as hell. It's crazy how y'all get excited about this still. they promised us fully autonomous cars that would be taxis for us and they promised this in 2017. It is now 2025 and they are still releasing versions that are worse for their users than previous versions. And you're all out here still marveling.

I don’t see anything in the article that signals that, what do you mean?

I’ll be the first one begging for a HW5 retrofit

Only feature I want is less nag time on highway drives. Keep me in one lane going speed limit for entire trip hands free….

You are joking, but if I was Tesla, I would make AI 5 Upgradable from Ai3, not Ai 4. It would just be a waste of time to do a single generation jump.

Me too. If there isn’t any traffic and the weather is clear, I would like to at least be able to search for a place to eat on a road trip. I can’t search for anything without getting yelled at. On FSD, that is.

HW5 probably won’t be mass produced for another year. They are going to solve for HW4 until they don’t have to

Friendly reminder you can scroll the button on the wheel instead. Just learned that the other day. Tried it and it worked too

>Tesla stated that FSD V14 will … I missed it, where and when did Tesla talk about v14 (i.e., move the goal posts closer for v13)?

2020 model 3 with fsd. Still waiting for V13. What a joke.

Dude, relax. It's hard.

They might be on the right track but it will take a lot more compute than they think.

It’s already hands-free with no nags as long as you’re paying attention.

Not if you look down at the screen for .5 seconds

It will never make it to my car so I can't even get excited :(

How do you know that? I don't think that's knowable until it's done. Hell, even then, just look at examples like Deepseek for how AI has room for optimization.

V13 has been pretty amazing these days, but a better understanding of context will definitely help. That seems to be one of the primary areas I notice behavior that could be considered weird. Also I wish they’d push the speed limit up to 90, just for passing. I drive in an area with 80mph speed limits and will be passing a semi at 85 just to have someone tailgate me trying to go 90+. Wish the cars could just speed up for a second and then move over so I don’t feel the need to disengage.

they should iron out v14 before june robotaxi release by releasing it earlier, like may

without having my wipers going off randomly. Annoys the hell out of me when driving along and the wipers turn on and run on a fully dry windshield

My 1998 ford explorer could go down the highway with cruise control without me paying an ounce of attention to anything going on. The Tesla at least keeps you in the lane…. Maybe at least bump the nag or attention check up to every 10 minutes if you don’t want people sleeping the whole trip… honestly the getting to the point you can sleep the whole trip should be the goal. I trust my Tesla in a single lane on highway more than a grayhound bus driver.

2017 MX… no in cabin camera

Garbage article. Many of these things are already implemented (auto-regressive transformers) or have been said by members of Tesla's AI team to be coming with future iterations of V13 (audio input). They haven't said anything specific about what V14 will bring. This post should not be upvoted. It's straight-up wrong.

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No. That's not what an auto-regressive transformer architecture means, V12/V13 already use auto-regressive transformers. This article is incorrect.

It's more than .5 seconds. I find the amount of time to be completely fair. Obviously it means you can't be looking away from the road for several seconds at a time, but you shouldn't be doing that, so it makes sense.

Not a single source in the article. Where did they pull this info from?

With FSD, there's no steering wheel touching required at all.

That's all nice for you Americans - but Europe doesn't even have "real" FSD yet. There's talk about a trial run with the Dutch certification body in May or so. Consequently, nobody buys FSD here. Even EAP's usefulness is debatable. I make do with plain Autopilot (in HW3...).

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Just because there isn't any traffic or weather doesn't mean it's safe to be looking away from the road for more than a few seconds at a time. FSD could make a bad steering decision, there could be an animal that jumps out onto the road, etc. Obviously at some point FSD will be reliable enough to be unsupervised for these incidents, but we may not be at that point yet.

During the earnings call last Wednesday. But none of the things mentioned in this article are specifically part of V14. It's incorrect.

>You know people are already upgrading from HW3 to AI4 right No, they are not, I need a source for this.

Most cars you can search for those things in the GPS while also being fully responsible for driving though

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/good-news-hw3-owners-free-hw4-upgrade-soon.340549/

We can't look at our Tesla screen to switch a song or check our distance to the supercharger or adjust the air conditioning? That's ridiculous.

Is a HW4 upgrade something you can request via service? I didn’t think it was.

They used distillation to train their models using ChatGPT.

Deepseek thinks it’s ChatGPT 4 for one.

You can with a Tesla too, but not on FSD unless you want it to beep at you. Other cars with hands-free Level 2 systems also have eye-tracking that prevents you from looking away from the road. The fact is that looking away from the road for several seconds at a time is unsafe and you shouldn't be doing it, even if many of us are guilty of doing it. So it makes sense why these Level 2 systems don't allow it. What's unfortunate is it pushes people to turn off the systems while they look away from the road, which is even less safe.

People are already doing this with manual control control of their vehicles. FSD should give us more grace than us doing all of it.

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OpenAI already has evidence that deepseek trained on their model outputs. It's likely OpenAI isn't the only model they ripped off.

yeah but thats not the same as ripping chat gpt. they still did the hard work

Source?

training your ai on another ais outputs isnt ripping said ai. youre still doing hardwork. ripping pre trained models implies they took someone elses model and didnt do anything of value

the stay in the lane I put you in is a feature I really want. even on chill; hurry felt too hurried; it did not seem to stay and on two lane divided highways it still kept trying to get in the left lane even when the current lane was clear. Has anyone else had it identify the speed limit incorrectly? On I-75 the other day it kept reading the minimum speed signs as the actual limit - fortunately it never tried to slow to 40 but it clearly showed 40 was the limit.

If it nags you, you are spending too much time with your eyes off the road. But anyway, Put pressure on the wheel next time you take your eyes off the road for that long. I found out that it doesn’t nag if the wheel has some input.

You can get it to use nag again if you obscure your eyes (sunglasses/hat/etc)

“soon” =/= “are already upgrading” Tesla can’t do the upgrade yet and it’s not so easy since they didn’t want to do it previously due to complexity, they just have to because people bought FSD

Agree to disagree. Without distillation, specifically distilling ChatGPT, it would have taken them years to get where they are. It’s not new, Chinese companies always rip off American tech.

You can't look at the screen for several seconds at a time while on FSD without it beeping at you, yes. Because that's unsafe. You can glance at it for a couple seconds at a time to do what you need to do. I often glance at the screen for a second or two, look back at the road, glance at the screen for another second or two, look back at the road, etc. to change songs or whatever and avoid the beeping. Why do you think it's ridiculous that people aren't allowed to look away from the road for a long time? That would be super unsafe.

They didn't do anything of value. Deepseek outputs results that are roughly similar to other existing models. It's just that they did it with "less resources". It was only less resources because they let other companies do the hard model training work, then ripped off their results.

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there model is more efficient. that’s huge value. they also made it open source, and explained how they did it. huge value. showing you can do it with smaller training time is big value. they trained there model the same way everyone else trained their models. the difference is the training data, there was no ripping of results.

We don’t have “real” FSD in America either.

Ummm that’s wrong buddy Edit: not all the time but every so often

https://www.youtube.com/live/Gub5qCTutZo

So you think people should be allowed to use FSD and not watch the road? That would be very unsafe. Obviously people do it while manually driving too, and that's even more unsafe, but they can't really do anything about that.

Hat, yes. Sunglasses, no.

That’s literally what people were sold on…

We aren't getting 13

It’s even worse in Cybertruck. Checking your rear view mirror is part of driving and that’s now on the screen so you can’t even be attentive to all that’s going on around you without being scolded by FSD. Same goes for side view mirrors. Every time I’ve got a strike it was from doing a side view and rear view mirror check too close together.

That's unsupervised FSD, which hasn't been released yet. In the meantime, it's supervised, which they've always stated clearly on the order page. As soon as it's reliable enough to go unsupervised and they have government approval to do so, they'll release an update that removes the driver monitoring.

Buddy, I use FSD every single day and never touch the wheel. Starting with FSD 12.4, as long as the cabin camera can see your eyes (indicated by a green dot in the top-left of the screen), you don't have to touch the wheel at all. You'd be correct for FSD versions before 12.4.

I noticed that too, I was guessing it is trying to clear the windshield camera.

I’d like option to hold the lane returned, or to ignore the passing lane.

Pal, not everyone has a cabin camera. :)

Yes, for the few with older cars which don't have one, you do still have to touch the wheel.

You misunderstand. He's saying skip updating 3 to 4 and instead just make 3 to 5 instead. That's not saying don't do 4 to 5 as well, just that it doesn't make sense to move 3 to 4 when it should just go straight to 5.

If they want me to continue giving them money, this needs to happen. Their cost of retrofitting hw3 or even hw4 could be financed and added to the monthly FSD service fee. I’m sure they have enough compute to generate a practical solution that’s financially viable for the company.

Chill usually does this 99% of the time, if the speed limit is 70 and you come up on someone doing 50 even chill will pass them though. What is infuriating is there is no way to set the speed. You can set the max speed but it never accelerates to it. It seems to pick random speeds anywhere from the speed limit to 7 miles over the speed limit.

It seems to think me smoking a cigar is not paying attention.

EXACTLY. Stop telling me FSD is the best ever if it has to nag every 20 minutes. Road trips with FSD are abysmal.

V14???? Should have been titled "What's coming in 13.3.x. I'm ready for some 13.3.x love (hell still haven't got 13.2.6 yet). Hopefully 13.3.x will cover many of the "Upcoming Improvements" in the Release Notes. I suspect we will still get at least a couple more V13s (13.4, 13.5) since it just came out in November.

Then it’s more like SD not FSD. Nothing FULL self driving about baby sitting the car.

I just want Autopilot to be competent. Would be nice to have the safe confident driving that FSD gives you available for highway driving. I paid for EAP so it shouldn't be beyond the wit of Tesla to limit it to operating on closed roads (which they have done already). People who trust basic Autopilot are far more likely to trust FSD in built up areas. Right now people get scared with Autopilot and assume FSD will be worse.

That's not its actual name. Its name is "FSD (Supervised)". And it will fully drive itself around while you supervise it, so its name is accurate.

Lol the reality of it is that nothing is going to happen in a few seconds.

Man I don’t even have 13 yet in my model 3 HW3

Are you someone who advocates for texting while driving?

Bro let it go

I think we have different definitions of ‘ripping off’. Let’s say work tasks you with figuring out why 2+2=4. It takes you 3 months and a lot of research. You then go to your coworker and show them how you did it. Your coworker takes the info, digest it in a day, and use it to then quickly figure out why 2+2+2=6. He takes it to your boss and says “not only did I figure out how 2+2=4… I used that to then figure out something more complicated!” Do you applaud him for all his hard work?… or do you feel like he ripped off your work? That’s what’s happening. If you consider this to be a more advanced, more efficient, method of work? So be it. But it takes a lot less compute power when you aren’t doing most of the hard work.

What's your problem? I'm just explaining to you why Level 2 systems don't let you look away from the road while you use them.

No, but I've done it in my Tesla no problems.

FSD V13 already does that.

That doesn't make it safe. I'm not going to lie and pretend that I don't do it occasionally, but I'm also not going to pretend that it isn't dangerous to do. So it makes sense why Tesla and others don't allow it while using their Level 2 systems.

Bro let it go 🤣

Nag starts immediately when you are changing songs.

Look down at a screen installed by the automaker for a second? Yeah why not? People do that without AP on, and they do it in cars unrelated to Tesla. If it's unsafe to look away from the road ever, then we have a lot of work to do to rebuild all car features into a HUD or something.

It's an incorrect interpretation of what was said on Tesla's Q4 earnings call last week.

Nobody said it's unsafe to glance down at the screen. What's unsafe is staring at it for several seconds at a time. That's what triggers the warning beeps.

There should be an option to click on a lane on the FSD screen to have the car lock into.

Seriously. Can’t even pick a song ok the street without getting yelled at.

That’s due to regulations. Tesla can’t do anything about it. That’s also why AP is damn near useless, because it’s severely restricted.

FYI you can select a song, and adjust AC using voice commands. https://youtu.be/UmWHcR1wpLQ?t=163&si=jWe-dQXp1xV0N00Y

Yeah it’s a liability issue as well. As long as it’s supervised they have to put all the safety guards otherwise they would get sued from all the opportunists all the time.

Same boat as I'm still stuck on 2024.45.25.5 w/ 13.2.2. I am really looking forward to the upcoming improvement where it will pull into/park in your driveway. I will subscribe just to try that feature out.

Gotta love the EU machine

Yup. And you know the NHTSA would have something to say as well. They can't win here.

I think the one feature everyone wants from FSD is FSD.

Indeed. It “usually” does. But I want a definitive “it won’t” option available to me.

Yup, now my only consolation will be to play the world’s smallest violin for all the HW4 owners when the next hardware is released.

stop phantom brrrreeakking!

The joke is we’re training ourselves to disable FSD to look something up, at the exactly point we most need more autonomous help.

Yeah. We have regulation for everything, innovation for nothing - and production is leaving, too.

That's not how any of this works at all. ChatGPT isn't even an open model, you can't distill it. You can *align* on ChatGPT, but not distill. All of that is also quite irrelevant to DeepSeek's use of a novel reasoning layer and training process with R1-Zero, and the other dozen or so totally novel architectural choices they've made.

[It's a bit cloudy] -> "poor weather detected, fsd may be degraded"

ITT: Lots of people who don't realise their ingrained bad driving habits are just plain old dangerous. I'm glad FSD is "nagging" these people, otherwise they would be having or causing car crashes left, right, and centre. And no doubt they would be blaming all of the "bad drivers" around them.

Maybe the "old" NHTSA....

Maybe the speed has something to do with how quickly you get that inattentive warning. There's times that I'm driving in town between 35 and 40 miles an hour and I can take four or 5 seconds to stare out of the window either at a pretty sight or people playing golf and never get a warning

I tested it today and it took about 7 seconds of staring at the screen to trigger a warning (tested it twice and got the same result). This was at around 55 MPH.

This. So fucking annoying when that happens - it's kind of ridiculous now to think that Tesla refuses to give up using the camera for rain detection...how many years has it been now since they went down this path?

In industry.

Yup. This. It’s called harm reduction.

Us smart ones are leasing and aren’t worried about HW updates.

FSD does make bad steering decisions. Typically 15-20 times during my 35 minute commute.

Not nearly that common for me lol. But it does happen.

Have you guys seen Huawai software in china? 🤯

Really curious now when we'll see AI5 hardware ship in production vehicles. Kinda wanna hold out on buying a new Tesla until they've switched over to avoid being stuck on an older FSD version if AI4 can't run the larger context sizes needed.

It’s also due to not being very good yet. USA beta testers.

I hope tall berms on divided roads with little space between lanes is supported when taking a left. I have this situation in my neighborhood.

It’s ridiculous when juxtaposed with the idea that Robotaxi is releasing this year. Either the software is reliable enough to have a user completely disengaged, or it isn’t. If it’s truly in a good enough state for mass robotaxi use, then a Tesla owner should surely be able to safely look away for extended periods

Do you drive without your seatbelt? Because it's probably fine *most of the time* - right up until that one time it's not.

Yes, you can. The car begins to blink a warning on the screen to look at the road again after you've been looking at the screen for a few secons, and as soon as look at the road again the warning goes away. It's not like the driving system just shuts off.

> Road trips with FSD are abysmal. Are you crazy? Is your indoor camera obstructed? I can drive on the highway indefinitely without touching the wheel with FSD - the interior camera tracks your eyes, and as long as you're watching traffic you don't have to touch the wheel.

Uh, no, the EU forced Tesla to limit what it could do, so an update literally made AP *worse* due to restrictions on what it's allowed to do.

Who said it's good enough for robotaxi use today? Tesla explicitly said that it isn't. Back in October they said that their current estimates show it'll pass human safety in Q2 2025. We're not there yet, and of course it might happen later than they expect.

All I’m saying is that if we are truly on the cusp of fully unsupervised FSD, it’s not that ridiculous to think that current state would be that you could look away for more than couple seconds

We may not be "on the cusp" in terms of the current miles per necessary intervention rate. Maybe we need a further 100x improvement in that metric to surpass human safety. But if they improve it by 3x per month on average, then the cumulative improvement by the end of June will be 243x. Sounds crazy, but that metric improved by 1,000x in 2024.

My car doesn’t have an indoor camera. It’s just. Nonstop nagging the whole time.

It's not the same thing. The car drives itself instead of me driving it. There's no seatbelt alternative.

Yeah, that's annoying. But you have a 4+ year old vehicle that's still getting the latest software updates (for now). Unfortunately, there will be limitations on functionality based on hold hardware. I assume your steering wheel nag frequency is the same as for someone using Autopilot. And it's a limitation imposed (strongly recommended?) by NHTSA, not Tesla's own choice (the nag interval used to be a lot longer).

But the car isn't infallible. *You* are responsible for the driving of the car, hence why it's "supervised." And my example is valid: You looking away from the road to text is probably fine *most of the time* - right up until that one time it's not. Same with DUI. Same with not wearing a seatbelt. Same with lots of other things. It might be low risk, but why have that risk in the first place when not doing that one thing can significantly mitigate that risk?

It’s worse than it used to be at nag frequency. I paid full self driving. I do expect it to work at some point. I’m not willing to let Tesla off the hook because the car is older.

Given that they have stated that V13 would be the first unsupervised FSD, I doubt they have even really thought much about V14.

Staring at the road isn’t driving so it’s already FSD.

V12 lasted a year. No reason to think V14 won’t ship until next year or late Dec.

Already done in V13.

Let me know when I can legally and safely sleep while it drives, and I'm sold. Until then, it's just super-expensive cruise control that intermittently tries to murder me.

Nah, they said they plan for the V13 series to get to *feature-complete* status for unsupervised FSD. They didn't say the V13 series will be reliable enough to enable unsupervised FSD. Feature-complete just means all the necessary features are there. Reliability/safety is a different question. This is the post you're referring to: https://x.com/aelluswamy/status/1852023605795918301

Which is partially why I'm glad we left the EU.

You clearly haven't actually used the latest FSD for any length of time. I trust the latest FSD over most drivers on the road.

One solar flair away for taking responsibility!😆

You don’t realize how regulations work do you? It doesn’t matter how good it is. Hell, we could have Level 3 or 4 autonomy in the states right now, and Tesla *still* wouldn’t be able to release it in the EU.

I think that’s still true for base autopilot, which might be the confusion. You don’t need to touch the steering wheel at all, not even occasionally, if you have FSD.

let us look away for 1 goddamn minute without yelling we signed our rights away let us live

Sammeeee

Idk if it’ll be that soon.. they just came out with AI4. I say go ahead and get the Tesla.. there will always be SOMETHING new coming down the pipeline.

I can’t way for truly FSD. What do we think? 2017? 2018? 2019? 2020? 2021? I’m sure it’s right around the corner.

> It’s worse than it used to be at nag frequency. Right, that's what I said. And also like I said, it's because the governing body is imposing stricter requirements on vehicles. Heck, you used to be able to drive for minutes at a time when AP was first released without touching the wheel.

Wait you guys really think you're getting v13 still? Not gonna happen. If it helps, I don't feel a material difference between v12 and v13

Yeah i was spoiled with the way it used to be. It sucks now and i leave full FSD turned off most of the time because of it. To my original point it just puts the lie to the fact that level 4/5 is almost here, when we can't get out of barely level 2.

…we have that already

Am I the only one who prefers to move lanes?

Yes that and I would love to be able to use dumb cruise and not have the speed limit changing

This is how Tesla makes money planed obsolescence ! Like Apple IPhones

Buy FSD

I agree. I see why they did it (full self driving should include decisions on speed) but it would be nice if there were a mode where it was self driving but with a speed set override, or at least a way to request a speed that it will try to hit if it can do so safely.

how do we know they didn't take an existing open source LLM?

i'm leasing, but based on the depreciation they are hitting us with i don't feel very smart...

i think the nagging is inconsistent and often ridiculous. sometime just looking down at the map for a few seconds (which still lets you see the road in your peripheral vision quite well) will trigger a warning. i mean, they clearly think it's ok to look at the map while driving BECAUSE THEY PUT IT THERE. the damn nagging basically penalizes you for using the car's systems that THEY put in there. on the other hand, the thing will let me look out the side windows (which doesn't let you see the road) for quite a while before nagging, if ever. it's the utter inconsistent stupidity of the nagging that gets people.

Its supervised FSD, we wont have unsupervised for a few years

I just turn off FSD and go lane keep mode on long freeway trips. You can change to lane keep during the drive but you need to disengage FSD. But you can only switch to FSD when parked.

That’s a ridiculous statement. I use FSD constantly (over 98% of the time according to my safety score). Road trips are one of the absolute best times to use it, but it works well everywhere. 2024 M3 LR/AWD.

Good luck with that since there will always be people going lower than the speed limit in the right lane on a 4 lane highway.