Skeptics of FSD are the only ones who haven't tried it, Elon Musk

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FSD V13 is absolutely insane. The progress from the start of 2024 to now has been mind-blowing. It's finally starting to feel real.

I think that might be right. I’m a doubter but I’ve experienced version 13. It’s a marked difference from the older versions. You can see it all coming together. I have been amazed since it rolled out

He literally let everyone have it for free and could track me disabling it. I did appreciate free enhanced autopilot for a minute thou.

No, I tried it a few times, it still sucks. On highways, fine. On two-lane country roads or cities? Horrendous. It's like having a 16 year old driving for the first time ever. I've taught my three kids to drive, FSD is exactly like that. It's nervous when it should be confident and bold when it should be careful. And worst of all on country road sweepers gets HORRENDOUSLY close to the center line, dangerously so.

Yeah, I kinda agree with Musk here to a degree. I was a big skeptic on FSD, didn't care for it, didn't really want it. I enjoy driving my car and in all the times I've tried it, it was never good enough to stop be from taking over. That all changed for me with v13 though. For the first time, I find myself just turning it on for almost every trip, because it drives about as good and as fast as I want it to.

Which version

Yes, Elon, I’d love to give the latest version of FSD 13 a try. Oh, it won’t run on my two year old car? Ok, guess I’ll remain a skeptic

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It's impressive but it's not even close to ready for unsupervised. I'm in Jacksonville Florida (the same place chuck cook tests it all the time) and it is not ready for use here or anywhere around here. It's fine on highways from what little highway usage I had in my demo drive but regular roads are not ready. It broke the law twice.

I am highly skeptical of his timeline for sure and I own FSD 13 on two vehicles with over 2000 miles on v13. If he just means people doubting it will ever happen, then he might be right as I do think they'll eventually get there, but I'll be highly surprised if we see it broadly and universally available in the next 5 years. Maybe limited driving situations on limited access highways within 2.

That’s a valid criticism of your car and ownership experience. But that isn’t a counterpoint to being critical of the newest release.

It is cool. But live in a winter city.

It really isn't though. V13 made it more lifelike but didn't really improve many of its critical faults. The minimal progress on those key issues despite significant increases in model complexity should be extremely worrying.

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I tried it for multiple free trials. I had to overtake on almost every drive to avoid hitting curbs. Once, it was too to avoid what would have been a nasty highway accident where it wanted to switch into a lane that had a car coming in hot. That’s a no from me, dog. I do really like the regular autopilot where it keeps you in one highway lane at the speed you set out the speed of traffic. It’s one of the main reasons why I own teslas. Of all the other brands I test drove recently, none of them did that well.

Not at all my experience in city, suburb, highway, or rural in the last few months.

Yeah. I know some people who tried it and didn't like it, but they didn't like the feel of the car driving itself more than any specific issue with FSD. It may genuinely be a case of it just not being for them. Meanwhile, even the critics I'm seeing quoted recently qualify their statements by saying that it doesn't seem to have any safety or awareness issues, they just see room for improvement. ..And then you have the masses who've never been in one of the cars but heard about a malfunction that happened 7 years ago think every day is like that. u.u

Right. You’re in the haven’t tried it group. Nothing you could have done. Just it isn’t there yet.

You are one release behind lmao

I’m being critical of his ignorance in the article

What laws did it break?

FSD isn't available in Europe, afaik. AutoPilot is, and it has phantom braking problems in some vehicles. FSD v13.x has not had that issue in the 1000+ miles I have driven ut.

Yea whatever Elon. I've tried it on 2 of our cars and got a refund. Can't discern green and red lights, sees a car in front when it's clearly parked to the side, even annoying things like the visualiser for the indicators for the vehicle in front of me are either the wrong side or shown as on when the car isn't indicating at all. Doesn't give me a lot of faith. I do like summon so I will keep EAP, but fsd can chortle my balls.

On highways it’s a better driver than 95% of people on the road today. Not every driver but the roads would be safer if ever car had FSD.

I have FSD in my 2023 X. Took a trip recently (3 weeks ago) and it had a hard time maintaining centerline and veering into other lanes and shoulder upon turns. I had to turn it off bc it was becoming dangerous. To be fair this issue hasn’t been there the whole time I’ve had the X, but whatever has changed recently definitely created some issues with FSD

Guarantee it's not v13.

I had the same experience with the latest beta in November. 15 mile drive from my house on mostly two-lane country roads. No cars turning into my lane or lane changes to contend with, only one stop light. It was 99% effective during those 15 miles BUT in that 1% I: \- Almost drove into incoming traffic when the FSD cameras picked up an adjacent turn lane's green light, \- Blew a stop sign in a residential area \- Turning off of the highway, the car swung completely into the left lane 99% is not effective enough, 99.9% is not enough. For me to be comfortable jumping into a Cybercab at a busy airport and take me to my house, there needs to be several 9s behind the decimal and we're nowhere near close to that.

I have it, try and use it, and still don’t trust it.

I'm the opposite. I've been using it for the vast majority of my driving since v11. While 13 makes it so far fewer people will think my car is obviously controlled by a computer, it really doesn't fix entire classes of critical intervention and actually shows regressions from v11 since v12 started that they've been consistently unable to address. If you didn't use it because you didn't like how it drove, you will be much less familiar with the core issues of the platform. As someone that's been using it extensively, I've seen the key points that are failing to advance, even while the driving style has improved drastically.

They keep doing free trials, which I absolutely don't understand... because every time that happens I try it out and it only takes a minute or two for the car to do something insane and I disable it again. Before the demos, I'd see people saying things like "it's really getting better!" and start to believe them a little. Now that Tesla does the trials, I am *much* more skeptical than before I had actually tried it myself. I get that you'd want to do free trials if it really worked to show it off to the skeptics, but it definitely isn't there yet, and the demos just hammer that home to anyone who tries it. But if you *really* want to convince me it's ready? All Tesla have to do is declare that Tesla accepts all liability for accidents and violations with FSD. That's when you'll know it's actually good enough.

I’ve tried it. And I’ve had it panic in the fog and rain. I’ve also had it attempt to murder me by cutting off a semi - multiple times.

FSD hasn't been released in Europe yet. You're using Autosteer, which is tech that's several years old at this point. FSD is an entirely different animal and vastly better.

This is a great insight. It’s rare when I have a safety issue but I do not like the way it drives in certain scenarios such as 4 way stops.

lol. Dude lives in his own little world, totally detached from reality.

Insider trading

Well first off it took a right on red in a place where that is not allowed, second it was driving above the speed limit the entire time even on the chill profile when there weren't any cars going fast enough to justify that. That's not to mention if I were to go through a school zone or be next to a stopped school bus it would not care in the slightest. Also phantom braking. If there were cars behind me I potentially would have caused a collision because it slammed on brakes twice decelerating over 20 mph in less than a second.

Where is FSD even available in Europe? I have not had a single instance of phantom braking on v13. There are other key issues that are still major problems, but phantom braking isn't one of them.

My 2018 has been equipped with the FSD beta about as long as it can be, and I am still very much a skeptic. I also live in Austin, where apparently the training on the FSD model is top notch.

I have it, and I use it daily, and I trust it to handle days worth of driving in between needing an intervention. I drove from central LA to San Diego last night without touching the wheel once... with LA traffic.

I'm fairly certain you weren't on v13. While it's navigation choices are still a bit weird, it's perfectly effective even in cities it used to have trouble with now. Prior to v13 it worked well in every city around me except for Albany, NY. V13 works fine in Albany as well. I've never had a problem with FSD on country roads.

I've been on it since v8. What regressions are you noticing?

Do you have any examples you can detail further? I ask out of genuine curiosity. It sound like you've used the previous versions more than me. I've tried every version, but have never used it regularly until now. But, I get in my car in my driveway and press the FSD button, it shifts my car intro drive, leaves my neighborhood driving a good speed and making all stops. It navigates around pedestrians. Follows traffic through the busy town while maintaining the flow of traffic, changes lanes and moves around people waiting to turn left, takes me into the faster lanes on the freeway and seems to drive safe, make all the exists and gets me to work. Only thing I can't get it to do is park in my spot automatically, maybe one day. To me, I don't know what else I could really ask for in terms of major improvements. Of course it'll continue to make small improvements over time and account for my thing like school busses, etc. But idk, for now it's seems really good to me.

Ehh, it tries to do 80 on a 55mph highway near me. That said, like I said, I do think it could likely do unsupervised on limited access highways inside two years. Navigation and traffic control problems are still an issue for it with no obvious solution in sight, but limited access highways have neither of those problems.

It’s as impressive as it’s ever been, but not perfect.

The difference between FSD 12 and 13 is insane.

In traffic isn’t really a big deal tho, that is where it should excel. I have yet to have a 15 minute drive without intervention when on normal streets and roundabouts, so while that is cool it works as advertised in crowded situations in massive metro areas, it still does not feel like it will be ready to take full control anytime soon for me. I’d love to be proven wrong over time, but no longer a believer.

I've heard this exact same thing every time they release a new version lol

I think the rate of progress has been incredible, but I've consistently noticed a discrepancy between what Elon claims is the performance, and my lived experience. I kept wondering "is he driving a special version that we won't see for 6 months?" In the last earnings call he finally stated the implicit caveat: "if you only takeover for safety-critical interventions." Ah, that explains it. I find the stats on the community FSD tracker to be more in line with my experience.

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Biggest thing is traffic control failures. I never saw a single red light or stop sign run until 12.5 and since then it's been an unending torrent of them. Red lights seem to have possibly improved but not stopped with 13, but stop signs it runs more than ever. Also significant navigational issues with trying to run itself off the road by getting into lanes that are ending and trying to pass or going straight through turn only lanes without even signaling back.

Ahh, the young owner in the wild, a sight to see.

That timeframe would have been the very first v13 release, which was rough, IMO. 13.2 has been insane, though. That said, I've seen too many videos of 13.2 turning into the wrong lane (sometimes oncoming traffic lane), so it's still obviously not at 99% or 99.9%. That's why I'm excited for the upcoming 3x model size and context length updates. I can't imagine how many small issues will just go away with a 3x larger model (we've seen this happen across the machine learning world, it WILL happen with FSD, too).

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Weird, I use it every day to take my son to/from school (20 minutes each way). Outside of situations where it gets into a turn lane before figuring out its a turn lane (which is just annoying)... No problems at all.

Given the normal cruse control keeps trying to do emergency stops because it's seen a pedestrian on the footpath or a car on the other side of the road, there is no way in hell I'd trust the car to try and drive itself. I used to have a 2016 Model S, facelift but not with hw2, it was far from good but it wasn't nearly as bad as the 2024 Model Y I have now. I literally have trained myself to slam my foot on the accelerator every time I hear it start beeping or feel the car breaking just to avoid constantly getting rearended.

Well we European, who bloody paid for it, didn't get it yet!!!

The math just doesn't support this. Drivers can do 500k miles without a wreck.

Running traffic lights and stop signs is the most severe. Also consistently using lanes it should not, either trying to run itself off the road on an ending lane or worse yet, going straight from turn only lanes. They aren't super common but they happen systematically in some locations and randomly rarely in others, but they are things that need to happen never.

Are you using automatic speed and seeing it go too fast? If anything, I usually see it going too slow.

I'm in a 2024 Model 3, haven't had one phantom break or jittery turning. The roads I drive on however are well marked and mostly highway.

That's interesting I always experience the opposite where it will not go far enough over the speed limit without me upping the speed. Before v11 it's lack of acceleration was dangerous on some streets but I feel mostly comfortable with it's speed/accel now.

This is how I feel, too. I'm regularly watching other drivers make the most insane mistakes while my car it literally driving itself for the 1000th mile since the last disengagement. That may not be the case everywhere in the US, though.

Any California drivers have FSD complaints? I’m on 12.5 and have hardly any issues. I wonder if more of the issues are in areas where there are subject to harsh weather conditions

Hmm, interesting. I can't say I've ever had any of those things happen to me, and I've been using v13 daily since it released. I've even taken multiple road trips to cities I'm unfamiliar with, and it was really nice to just let FSD take me around a new city, saving me the stress of trying to navigate around. That said, out of everything you mentioned, the only thing I have had it do is, on this route I take often there is a freeway entry ramp that ends, then like 20 meters later a freeway exit lane begins. But it isn't the same lane, the first one actually ends, then that same section of road opens again after like 20 meters. I have noticed almost every time FSD will turn into the entry ramp when it wants to exit there. I have to disengage, bring it back to the proper lane, then turn it back on and allow it to move over again now when the actual exit lane has started.

And he has the data to prove that. I’ve gotten 2 trials and I turned off FSD and went back to AP both times within a week. They should be able to see that and infer why that is…

There is only auto speed on v13. Local roads generally go slow, highways typically go fast. One particular highway, it goes very very fast. Really it should be a 65mph road but it's not and fast traffic on the road only does 70, maybe 75 on a fast day but the Tesla will go 82 if I didn't dial in the limiter. The limit is 55.

In Q4 2024, vehicles using autopilot averaged 5.94 million miles per accident. Compared to 1.08 million miles for Tesla vehicles not using autopilot at time of incident and 702,000 miles for US average. I haven’t driven my Tesla on a highway without autopilot since 2018 and never will again for the safety of me and my fellow commuters.

I tried it extensively when I rented a model 3 for a week. It was kind of fun but sketchy as hell and I’m not ready to trust it fully any time soon.

Elon has always been off on FSD and years ago he lost the excuse. He's either woefully incompetent, surrounded by spineless yes-men, or lying to us, or some combination. Because here's the thing that people constantly miss. FSD is the kind of problem that can be "almost there" AND a decade away. Because it's all about "adding 9s". Getting to 90% was probably pretty easy, and gave them a false sense of the speed they were moving. Getting to 99% is hard. Getting to 99.9% is harder yet. A person in Elon's position CAN'T be obtuse to that this far in. EVERYTIME there's a thread like this there's 20 people swinging in to say "I only have to intervene once a day at this point." and like, ok, but even if that was the normal experience, and that's iffy, once a day is still a LOT when the goal is letting people sleep behind the wheel. (Or not even have a wheel.) If you had to reach over and intervene once per day when teaching your teenager to drive so they don't wreck, you wouldn't use the word "only" to describe that experience. You'd be telling everyone you know you child is trying to murder you for your life insurance under the guise of getting their driver's license. So it's a really hard problem to discuss because the people that think FSD is "close" (at least in one sense) and the people that think it's a far off problem, are basically both right. It can blow us away with where we're at AND we be cognizant that we could be AGES off from the unsupervised FSD we were sold as being basically done 8 years ago. "Only the exceptions are left" is massive when the problem is almost ALL exceptions.

Are you on 12 or 13? There is nothing but a max speed limiter on v13. Local roads it's still slow sometimes but it's a speed demon on limited access highways.

I use FSD daily in HW4 and love it. I don’t think I’m ready to get in a cyber cab with no steering wheel.

I'm pretty sure it's underlying mapping problems so based on the quality of local maps your mileage could certainly vary. The stop sign near me that it will run most of the time used to be a yield. And there are hot spots for me where it routinely screws up the lane selection. Can't really go unsupervised without a way to fix that though. It happens rarely in other locations but mostly in one of about 15 problem areas I've identified around town where it will consistently or regularly fail.

Mine straddles the center of the road on the interstate. It was fine on v12. V13 is a bit rough. Not sure why I’m having the issues.

When you say running a red light do you mean it just flat out doesn't stop for a normal red? Yesterday it turned right even though the right turn had a special red arrow light but I haven't had it just blow through a light going straight yet. That's scary.

I’ve tried the free trials. In fact I just got done with another month of that. I always give it a try. I always disable it long before the trial ends. It is no good on two lane rural highways. It is too aggressive on city streets. It speeds — like enough that I would get a speeding ticket using FSD. It cannot tell the difference between an Illinois state route sign and a speed limit sign. It speeds up and slows down erratically, to the point that it must infuriate drivers behind me. I find the way it drives irritating and unlike a novice driver, I cannot tell it to stop doing stupid things.

How long ago? I barely have to intervene these days. Its getting better in my experience

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Supervised FSD can't be compared to non-assisted drivers in that way though. I firmly believe FSD is the best ADAS out there by far because it works with a driver so that there's only a problem if both screw up. That does not remotely mean that FSD drives better than average drivers though. It means that FSD helps drivers make fewer errors, but it's highly dependent on that human piece still. Accidents would occur every few thousand miles driven with FSD by itself right now.

I have had the trial twice. I would never pay what's being asked for it. It's not reliable and would inevitably lead to death if not constantly monitored.

Ever since 12.5 it has had a hard time staying in the lane on winding highways. I still haven't got v13 to check if its better, but the full ML stack definitely had some regressions

It’s better than most people think It’s worse than fanatics claim

Yep, I figured that was it. When they went from the old "hand coded logic" to pure machine learning, they lost the reliability at which they identify stop lights and stop signs. This is kinda expected... the way the old system worked could be tuned to be overly sensitive to red lights (stop for red lights even if there's only a 40% confidence that it's red, for example). New system learns from example, so there's no easy way to "turn up the sensitivity" of red lights or stop signs without having a dedicated reward model for them. For a while there, they were still running v12's traffic light and stop light detection algorithms and overriding v13's ability to continue, and people noticed situations where the V13 "tentacle" wanted to accelerate, but v12 would prevent it from moving until the lights turned green. I'm pretty sure this is one of the main reasons we haven't gotten a new v13 model in a while, there's no point releasing updates if we're missing basic things like not running red lights or using the wrong lanes.

The progress to date has been impressive, but I think it's going to be exponentially more difficult getting from 99% to 99.9% and from 99.9% to 99.99% and so on and so forth. To safely transport human lives, I think we're a ways away from the average person being comfortable riding along in a driverless car and paying money to do so. For the uninitiated, every hiccup in a driverless car, awkward steering wheel mechanics, unnatural decel/accel is amplified 10x. I think we're years away from mass market adoption of any kind of driverless service in major cities.

Yeah, this isn't my experience at all. My drive up to LA was in rush hour traffic, right at 5pm. My drive back was with barely any traffic. Both were excellent. I drove 45m on back roads the other day and same thing: I just sat there until we got to the parking spot.

Take rate for FSD after the free trial was apparently 2%. We used it for 3 days during the free trial and then shut it off. Was horrifying in my neighborhood. I think actually the opposite of what Musk said is true. Once you experience FSD, you know how far away they truly are. We also had a free trial in like 2019, and it seems to have either not improved or barely improved since then.

That is great that it works for some and their levels of comfort. It will be awesome if it starts working that well for all drivers and their comfort/safety levels.

Thats funny because everyone who hasn't tried it is like oh is it awesome that it can drive you around? and those who have it are like, head on a swivel don't let your guard down.

I actually am very confortable with the FSD, I think it does a good enough job and have used it. I am just a non believer in his timelines because in 2018 he said we would have solar powered self driving money making Tesla’s in the next year and it’s 5 years later.

The whole 'it's a game of .999s' is a thing I know from Elon Musk himself, I believe old earnings calls years ago. So yes he knows that.

Or we’re on hw3 and it does something insane every time we try one of the free trials. I’ve heard pretty good things about hw4/v13 though

I don't disagree it was kind of expected and honestly it did far better than I expected it to initially be since ais are fundamentals less predictable. I suspect they will need to reintroduce select limiters but I'm not sure the model can easily support that. The nav data related issues will also be hard as it needs a class of error correction that it currently lacks.

I have it on two Tesla's with the latest hardware and I think it's phenomenal (v13x). Literally the only interventions I have are mapping issues where there's very specific places that every single time it tries to use an incorrect turn lane that would be at minimum very inconvenient if I didn't intervene. Only once, on hurry mode I'll note, it tried an overtake in a right lane on the highway that was objectively safe but made me (and probably the overtaken driver) uncomfortable and seemed needlessly reckless. If not for the map issues, I'd gladly pay to use it every day (in normal or chill modes). For the record, I hated v12 and refused to use it because it felt like a regression from v11. v13 changed my mind entirely.

Interesting, I’m still on 12 and in my opinion it drives like a grandma. Like… yes, if every car had it there would probably be almost no car accidents or people getting run over… but it drives almost too safe and conservative. Like other cars are gonna honk at you for stopping for too long at stop signs or driving too slow.

Weird, I’ve never had this interaction, even on HW3

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I’m a HW3 owner and the last trial was impressive I will admit but it was also weird. The weird stuff made me disable it (low highway speed, hesitation at intersections and constantly wanting to stay in the left lane). It is still quite something to tell the car to go somewhere and have it just do it without intervening (which it did for me). It just isn’t the same as a person doing it though.

His level of delusion is outstanding. I always disable FSD whenever I try out a free trial. I can barely last a drive without it doing something dangerous

I think the obvious answer is they need reliable reward models for stopping at red lights and stop signs, and their engineers have been talking about refined reward models a lot recently. I bet that's where their focus has been. The "class of error correction that it currently lacks" is, IMO, going to come from model scaling, which is queued up for the next V13 update.

Yeah, speed profiles largely fix that though I wish you could mix and match elements of each. Hurry has the appropriate acceleration and is the closest to the correct speed on local roads but is consistently too fast on the highway. Standard is also pretty consistently too fast on the highway but doesn't accelerate enough and is too slow locally. I don't even want to see what chill does.

Most people simply have no idea what FSD is capable of and will stare at you in disbelief when you describe it.

For me, the progress in just a few months was mind-blowing. It's not close to being driverless, but I found this latest version to be excellent. The previous version, it drove me on the interstate for 3 straight hours without an intervention but it tended to camp in the left(passing) lane, which I didn't like. It also hung out in semi blind spots. The latest version seemed to correct both of these issues. In town, the previous version constantly did dumb things, now the only thing it ever did wrong was try and go right on red where it was illegal to do so. I think the biggest issue long term for me is weather. When it rains/snows hard enough, the cameras get covered and I have to drive manually.

You've never had to override FSD? I mean... I guess in terms of just sheer statistical chance, it has to happen to somebody. And that conversely, I might be seeing issues faster than average, since that has to happen to somebody too. But even if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't trust it until there was nobody left like me reporting issues. If it's not reliably working for everybody all the time, it's not ready.

I had a similar experience, tried the trial, really tried hard to let it do its thing, after a couple days I just disabled it.. it almost never behaved logically, accelerating into off ramps, not slowing down for red lights until the last second, passing people right before my exit so it had to merge aggressively, just making me all around uncomfortable.. the trials solidified that it's not something I'm willing to buy for now

I'm probably in the reverse camp where I'm overly cynical and the trials had me thinking, "This is better than I thought", but it's still not great. I tell people that its a little like giving your 14 year old kid the keys and asking them to drive. I will say I had a few incidents where it full on was about to take a turn into oncoming traffic. It's definitely not stable enough to use without being attentive (For me)

Up until v12 you could 1000% call me a skeptic to put it lightly. It was honestly fucking trash before neural net. Now it's crazy good. I couldn't have imagined it back in the V10 days

I’m on the v13 trial right now and it still has a long way to go. It still won’t even do something basic like maintain the highway speed I set it to. It surges way above (fine as it’s usually just following the flow of traffic) to way below (why? I even have it set to “HURRY”). I prefer Autopilot since it at least maintains the minimum speed I set (Enhanced AP/Autosteer is best because auto lane change). As for city driving it still has issues like driving in wrong lanes (turn lanes) or taking turns too steep and curbing the wheels. It also hesitates randomly which has earned it some honks from other drives multiple times (probably thinking I’m brake-checking them). I’m still hopeful for the future of FSD but it’s still not worth the price currently.

Nah, it's been particularly positive with V13. The rate of improvement really started to ramp up since the release of V12.

Yeah, it's highly situational. I've been areas that are great and others that aren't. Even back on 11 I was able to use it in dense weird markets in Princeton, NJ with no issue but then in much less busy Albany, NY it would fail horribly. 1 month demos also really aren't long enough to get a full in depth picture of it so many just don't have enough usage. And to be absolutely clear, I adore FSD and use it for the vast majority of my driving even when passing through areas I know are a problem, I just make sure to be ready to deal with it when needed and it's not a problem (until you want to try to be unsupervised).

Yeah, we'll see how it goes. I'm a bit hopeful that the context extension will help those but I was also underwhelmed by what 13 delivered in error reduction even if it delivered a ton in style quality. It was still an improvement, but I'd say it was maybe a 2x error reduction improvement when we need about 20,000x improvement.

Right! I’ve had twi trials and it always turned onto incoming traffic.

Right, he "knows" it, but he either doesn't *understand* it, or hopes most people won't. How many times is he going to literally or figuratively "3 months maybe, 6 months definitely" this issue before we can safely assume he has no idea what he's talking about, or is intentionally misleading people? Edit: Because frankly at this point even if the problem is *he* is being lied to by yes-men, it's a "fool me once...fool me 3872 times" situation he needs to take some accountability on and change.

Yeah HW3 is never going to match HW4, Elon just said so 2 days ago.

Non-skeptics of FSD are the only ones who haven't used FSD with a Cybertruck on I70 from Golden to Glenwood Springs. I challenge Elon to do exactly that and see what the skeptics are experiencing. We have 2024 Y and 2024 Cybertruck, both with FSD. It still performs rather poorly for us, but is a dramatic improvement from a month ago. I have noticed that the performance does vary greatly depending on which state you are in, which types of road you drive, the specific roads, how dirty they are, how much the lines are wiped off from snow clearing etc. In the last week: \* the cybertruck on freeways has drifted out of its lane, drifted off the road past the rumble strip, or changed lanes without meaning to (no indicator)... around 20 times. This is a well known issue for Cybertrucks. Also it often tries and fails to change lanes when going on a freeway curve. \* both vehicles have in the last week have tried to drive on the wrong side of the median strip... literally the wrong side of the road. There are two locations within 10 minutes of here where FSD consistently makes that mistake on both vehicles. \* both vehicles often travel well under the speed limit for no reason. Often when the traffic is +15 over the limit, the teslas are 10 under. Both freeway and surface streets. \* it still occasionally cuts people off ... if they are travelling 30mph faster than you in another lane it only looks back maybe 300ft. \* it ignores unbroken white lines sometimes. It doesn't switch to the left lane to keep distance from emergency vehicles in the breakdown lane. \* speed limits and speed is the most common reason for a disengagement. It gets about 20% of speed limits wrong, by 10 or 20 mph. I would say that my disengagements have done better than halve over the last few months... but is still about 1 disengagement per 2 miles on some freeways (1 per 10 miles on other freeways) and 1 per mile on surface streets. We have put on 3k miles on our teslas in the last month, with no commuting. However I have noticed some impressive defensive driving... it won't change lanes into the blind spot of another car (e.g. 3 lane freeway). So for me, on the roads I drive, the car is still at least 3 orders of magnitudes away from robotaxi (which at the current rate of improvement is 5 years (a 2x improvement every 6 months)... but I understand it works much better on Teslas launch cities.

Tried, don’t like it

Yes true I ask myself the same thing. Naivety? On purpose? Mix of both...?

Completely agree, I’m aware of my surroundings and calmer when driving myself than having to be ready at any moment to forcibly turn the wheel or hit the brake. There’s also just the unknown, like it will start inching into an intersection to take a left when there’s an oncoming car and you just do not know if it will actually wait or if it’s going to accelerate into the car lol.

I tried it in Toronto traffic door to door, highway and side streets, worked like a charm. It was scary for sure and I kept expecting something to go wrong but it was perfect. Friend tried it in a different model and it was a disaster, I honestly don't know why it's not consistent

Do you live in the boonies or just take lots of Ambien? Lol

I have 2 Model 3s. My 2018 has FSD (bought used with it) and my 2022 performance does not. I’ve never used FSD on either car (via free trials on 2022) off highway and gotten to a single place without disengaging it. 100% rate of finishing my drive manually. I try it out again every major update and it’s still trash. I’ve honestly become skeptical online that the people who talk highly of it are real people. My latest experience was 2 months ago. 8 minute drive to a friends house. Pulls out of my neighborhood which is a 3 way stop intersection with two cars going both the other ways. Does it fine, but then full stops in the middle of the intersection with no warning and nothing in the way of the drive. It lasted <0.1 miles before I had to disengage it.

I’ve been using FSD for a while now, on my 21 M3 SR+. It’s always had its issues but I figured it was part of the development process…then came the updates and I’ve come to realize that it’s gotten worse over time. Most recently, it’s ran 1 red light, made a u-turn from the far left turn lane, attempted to merge into lanes aggressively even though a vehicle is approaching fast. And the eye tracking, don’t get me started. It’s good don’t get me wrong but when I’m navigating, changing climate, radio, checking blindspots, etc and it pops off enough times to trigger a strikeout it gets annoying.

I still have trouble following your logic tbh. My guess is that the speed can be dialed in soon enough. And lane selection will improve with the 3x context length. In the past year we’ve seen it go from curb hitting, jerky, poorly handling some stop signs and unprotected turns (“yay it worked this time”) to very routine. And they are still dialing in the installed cluster and hw4 etc. and you’re saying it will take around 2 years more of improvements before it can handle highways /protected access stuff? Is this in every weather condition or something? My guess is we are practically there and should be there for highways before year’s end

Same exact experience. Tried it twice from the free trials. The auto-pilot is nice for highway driving but the FSD nearly killed me each time I tried it. I don’t think they are anywhere close to being able to run Robotaxis and their insane “Tech Company Evaluation” is propped up by this so they have to keep promising this is right around the corner. I think full autonomous vehicles on the road is actually never going to happen. I think the only way to have fully autonomous vehicles would have to be something like an eVTOL Jet. No pothole variables, 3d space instead of 2d roads.

Stop talking with words Elon. They were lies many times already. Talk with actions like taking liability for FSD.

Are you on HW4 because that’s not my experience at all?

this is a blatant No True Scotsman fallacy

But like what level of comfort is it? Genuine question. Like it will never drive exactly how you would have driven it yourself, but when someone else (a human) drives you, do you feel like you have to take over? Coz it’s been better than a human for me (v13 in good weather)

Yeah but I mean, have you really tried it…man?

Have you tried 13.2 yet?

I use it every day and like it. It’s just not ready for 100% autonomous and I don’t think it’s close. It works for me because I know exactly when it makes bad decisions and disable it then. Two clear cases: when the sun is angled directly into the front camera. Also when multiple exits are close to each other.

It is still fake self driving as of 2025.

This is how you know this thread is full of bots and trolls. Reality simply doesn't match up to what I personally experience or what my family members experience. Even on HW3. Interventions sometimes happen, but I've never considered it to happen in a dangerous situation. Intervention is usually "I don't want to seem like that asshole who is doing 3 lane changes back to back for no reason".

I've only overridden in situations where I want to cut a line or when there is something crazy happening in front of me and I'd rather just take control instead of seeing what it would do. But I've never *had to*.

I have to agree because something doesn’t add up. The last trial was mind blowing for me.

As a PM, I always think they do this trial to gather real testing data on new features that launched or want to launch in the future ;)

I think the worst thing mine has done is speed through a work zone. I don't know how it missed all the signs.

I have tried it multiple times (in sweden) Once it almost killed me by almost running into the centre "Wall" on the highway. And the rest of the time it's underwhelming as it can't keep with basically any roads here.

This sums up my feelings. First person that dies in a robotaxi will get sued by Elon if they make it public.

I think most of these people are on HW3. Nobody is specifying what version of FSD they’re basing their comment off of. I think we’ve only had 1 v13 trial so far as opposed to Tesla rapid firing like 3 months worth of v12 trails towards the end of last year

HW3. And I don't know if they've done a trial with the newest version yet, either. But it's not like the trials came with a disclaimer that said "your hardware version is crap and you shouldn't trust it" or anything... if they tell me it works, I expect it to not immediately shit the bed. If it works great on HW4 but not HW3, limit the trials to HW4. If that's actually the critical difference here, all they've done is convince HW3 owners that Tesla has no idea what constitutes "good enough to show off."

I think an easy standard is one where passengers aren’t visibly anxious in the way it handles itself on the road. Or being able to merge without cutting people off, not try and pass cars less than a half mile from an exit, or generally do things that make the driver or passenger feel actively unsafe. I will admit that it’s hard to come up with a universal standard of ‘does this feel safe or does it feel like it is going to cause/get in a wreck’ as everyone is different in how much room they want to provide for merging, etc. I’d personally prefer at least a car length or so before changing lanes, but I get there are many who are fine coming within a foot of a bumper or fender when trying to weave through traffic, even if I don’t agree that that behavior should be part of the ‘standard’ driving profile.

I have HW3 and 12.6 has been amazing - it is the first version where it feels human and does a great job. Perfect? No - but it can get me from home to work and back with zero interventions mostly which no previous version has been able to do.

It will not go past your limit so not sure what you’re doing. Turn your speed offset % down to like 10-20% and and you can adjust it precisely using the scroll wheels. Also you need to specify what speed mode you have set. Chill mode is certainly not going to go 80 in a 65

My free trial took me on the opposite side of the road. That was fun.

I haven’t had this issue once they added the chill, standard, hurry profiles.

Ehhhh, I've had my Model Y for 4 years now I have had more bad experiences than good with FSD.

13 hasn’t been out that long to have multiple free trials…so starting you are either confused or purposely adding an opinion not tied to the article or his comments.

>it tries to do 80 on a 55mph highway near me You know that's a setting, right?

That's genuinely surprising. But it's not comforting either-- if we don't know why mine turns into oncoming traffic about two hundred feet into its first test and yours drives reliably all the time, we also have no idea what might make yours suddenly behave the same way as mine. Could be as simple as a visit to a different location.

This 1000%.

Honestly, the two year limited access is more for testing and regulatory approval. I think that tech could be ready in 6 months but there is more to that than tech that takes time. Figure another 6 months to collect data followed by 6 months of paperwork and red tape.

Anyone who is saying they have had multiple free trials on v13 is blowing smoke. It hasn’t been out long enough for that many trials. Plus when you get trials it’s not always 13 even if hw4 initially. I assume these people either don’t realize the version or are purposely being deceptive.

You also aren’t on 13…

I've had a phenomenal experience with FSD 13. I use it ~2 hours/day for my commute through a variety of traffic scenarios. I suspect that its ability is directly tied to how good the data is in a given geographic area, because some of the things I see you guys complain about just don't ever happen for me. In fact, it's often made better decisions than I would. It'll change lanes and I'll think, 'Ok, let's see how it plays out' and I'm often pleasantly surprised.

What version was it?

Yes, but for unsupervised it's going to need to not require an update on the limit every time the speed limit changes. It's not a problem to manage as an ADAS, but it's a problem if nobody is making corrections. I run it on hurry most of the time as it does a better job on that mode for just about everything else, but nothing works be picking speeds 40 percent faster than the limit in a 55 as the normal speed of travel when it's also much faster than anyone else on the road.

Yeah it may be that. I actually live near Toronto just like the parent. I have both HW3 and HW4 and I don't have any disengagements.

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I'm not complaining for ADAS usage (though it would be nice if it didn't increase the max every time the speed limit dropped) but if you want unsupervised you need to not have to mess with the setting. Currently my car can either drive suicidally slow or suicidally fast without manual intervention.

I've tried it. It's not that good. I've had it since 2022. It's gotten better. It's nowhere near ready.

It's good but very dangerous

I get the trials and use it here and there and just get annoyed with it. I would never pay $8000 for it and I still also would not pay $99 a month. It is too slow, is not defensive and I find it less safe. Yes I am on HW4.

Same here, I've had like 3 free trials and at no point did I come close to trusting it. Had to rescue myself several times, and constantly had to interfere.

I have a friend like this with a model 3, can’t keep autopilot on. So I invited him to try my model y and same thing. Then I drove the same path roughly with autopilot and showed him it’s a safe distance away, I do it everyday I go to work. In the end I learned this new thing I hadn’t thought about. People will disengage autopilot if it doesn’t what they would do. Sometimes that’s a safety issue, sometimes it’s just not centering the way we would or choosing the lane we would etc…. There will be a point where FSD is demonstrably safer at driving and people still won’t use it because we all disagree on what should look like. That’s a much larger amount of trust than the early adopters who use it now.

The free trials of FSD did a great job convincing me NOT to buy it. It is not a safe product, at least not yet.

I have a 2023 M3 and have trialed FSD twice. I can only think that all the people in here saying it's been perfect for them are "those drivers" that you see texting while utterly oblivious to the fact that their car has almost killed them 3 times in the last 15 mins. I actually hated the last free trial they gave me because even on the freeway the FSD was so erratic I couldn't wait to go back to regular autopilot. On city streets it's even worse, and has tried to run stop signs, hit curbs and swerve into other cars every single time I tried to use it.

Man highway driving is why I paid for it previously. It was so good compared to the old auto steer navigate on auto pilot. Now they have this speed profile BS and it continually slows down for no reason, goes to pass and then slows down and camps in the left lane. So aggravating. I’m now back to driving on the highway myself too. It has gotten tons better in the city, though still not enough to use it.

Mostly just people who bought FSD will advocate for it. Because we’ve used it enough. Know its limitation but also its capabilities. It has improved tremendously over the last couple years. But I still get it. Someone subscribes, it feels sketchy, they cancel the subscription and go on Reddit to announce it’s shit. Kind of like playing golf a couple times per year vs every weekend. One of these guys thinks golf is a stupid sport and the other can’t get enough of it

Absolutely spot on. I'm on HW3 as well and I only understood this week with Elon finally admitting that HW3 wasn't good enough that this was the issue. In the meantime, I've lost confidence in the product. It's super dangerous to be running FSD on HW3. And I'm tired of people dismissing those opinions because we are "bots", man we've been on Reddit for over 10 years.

"The larger sample size of all internet users doesn't agree with the small sample size I have personally experienced, so the Internet must be trolls." There are a lot of reasons why the original commentor and yourself might have different experiences. I have tried several free trials and had the same experience as them (no, I didn't record what version of the software I was trying in my diary) and I have had to intervene on just about every single drive. Why? Maybe I was in an older version. I don't know why they release older versions for trial but maybe that was the case. It could be because the downtown Denver roads are absolute chaos and the car struggles to navigate those more than whatever city you are in. Maybe I have tighter tolerances on when I take over. Maybe I care about the car trying to turn left out of the thru lane than you do. Don't get me wrong, FSD is a miracle of engineering and code and hardware. It's amazing. It drives like a teenager that is just learning to drive but whose superpower is staying in the exact center of a lane. I'm sure it's getting better, but the version I drove in two trials last year was not ready for full driverless.

Yeah the latest version with “hurry up” enabled wants to go about 15-18 miles an hour over the 60 mph speed limit on a local highway. Faster than the other cars around me.

Everyone has a different comfort level while driving and using FSD. On a 6 mile trip someone might be ok with 3 interventions, while someone might think that’s too much and FSD is terrible. OR on a 3 mile trip someone might be ok with 6 interventions, while someone might think that’s too much and FSD is terrible. Unfortunately not everyone will have the same mutual enjoyable FSD experience.

I use it everyday. It drives me from my driveway at home to my office. My driver is 30km over city streets and highway. Occasionally, It makes questionable lane change choices and there’s one off ramp it doesn’t use the correct lane for so I take over every time there but in the last 6 or 7 months it’s been 99.9% great. My wife can’t tell if I’m driving or FSD is driving most of the time, it’s gotten that smooth (take that for what it says about my driving haha) It’s very very good now, but not perfect but good enough to use for nearly every trip I take.

And doesn’t work at night if it’s too dark

I’ve gotten the free trial a couple times, tried it, and am critical of it. Too bad he needs to lie about everything.

I think that might be part, if not a large part of the issue. I've put about 1200 miles using FSD. It has it's quirks sometimes, but I think that's generally due to mapping issues. I'm also in CA.

HW4 and it’s been terrible for me. I had to turn the forced trial off. It constantly puts the car into a lane it can’t get out of and misses the exit or turn. I like autopilot, FSD has been insane to me. And them forcing the trials without me accepting it is very weird and lines up with these accounts here and low adoption rate.

Yea 2 trials was enough to make me decide that I'll never pay for it

I have fsd and will never use it on the street. It's like having a drunk teenage kid driving you. Shit is trash on residential. Only use it on the freeway.

That will be an issue with uptake but not really a limitation for approval. But yeah, FSD isn't for everyone even in its current state. I've honestly been comfortable with FSD driving 80+ percent of the time since I originally purchased it on version 11 with most interventions being the accelerator and turn signals. It became an integrated part of my driving and I don't even really think about using the accelerator or turn signals to redirect it anymore. V13 closed a huge amount of the acceptance gap though which is why people see it as a much larger improvement than it is. For them it went from "I don't want to use that, it's bad" to "I want to use that, it's good.". But 80- 90 percent of that is simply feeling better because it's much less mechanical and a better balance of where it feels confident and where it feels appropriately cautious.

Matter of time before regulators in OTHER countries outside the US mandate LIDAR sensors as the bare minimum for FSD. They don't care about costs to manufacturers, it's about safety. Camera only FSD will be severely limited soon.

We purchased our first Tesla with FSD. We decided not to purchase FSD on our 2nd Tesla. I try our FSD after each update and it’s still not ready. In fact, I prefer autopilot to FSD. I’m almost never disappointed with autopilot.

I'm on HW3 as well. You know, the hardware version that Elon stated was absolutely capable of full self driving, and my car was going to be earning me money while I sleep. Don't get me wrong. It's a great ADAS level 2 system, and I love having it for my commute. But "full self driving", it is not

Our Model Y in Seattle is really good with FSD. We use it about 99% of the time. I prefer it to Uber drivers and most of my relatives’ driving. It has noticed things I’ve missed, like cars running stop signs and bicyclists sneaking up between lanes. I used to think I was gonna hit curbs but now I just let it go to see if it would, and it never does; it just comes REALLY close. It’s incredible compared to any other car you can own. I intervene about once or twice per drive out of annoyance if I’m in a hurry. But if I pretend I’m in an Uber I don’t intervene at all until it’s time to park at the destination. I’ve noticed in LA it drives much more aggressively (maybe reflects LA drivers). And in Vancouver BC it’s much worse at everything.

Everything up to v13 was an impressive tech demo but was more effort to use and babysit than just driving yourself. V13 on hw4 is legit amazing and the first time that I’ve thought that it might be worth paying $99/mo for. It’s good enough that my wife doesn’t notice that FSD is engaged unless I point it out.

near my home, there is a offset intersection, essentially 2 T intersections. There are double turn lanes in both directions, and the car is at a complete loss as to how to handle them.

My initial trial 2023? I thought it was great on the freeway and so so in the city. In the 2nd (this past Sept) it would react to phantoms or something and cancel lane changes, slow abruptly, or accelerate too quickly. Basically I thought it was a much poorer experience. It will get there someday… but at least as of the last free trial? It’s not there yet.

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Not true. I tried it and I was impressed with how much it felt like riding with a teenage driver.

My dealer will offer me free trials of heroin.

I have never gone fsd for more than 5 minutes without taking over. I will never pay for it. Also it never works in the rain..

Nope. I've tried the free trial several times. Not worth it/safe.

If one day FSD has 90% fewer accidents than manually driven cars, Tesla still couldn't afford to pay for liability without making the cars more expensive. When/if that happens Tesla insurance will start getting cheaper than other cars. Id argue thats when I'll trust FSD. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be much better than me to use it.

I am the opposite. The first trial was okay, but not great. The second trial really made me want it. It could handle most of my drives with no intervention. HW3, 2022 S

News flash... No one wants to pay $8k for an unfinished product. I don't even need FSD at $8k if it is perfect.  This delusion that people will still be able to rent their cars out and make thousands needs to stop. The trajectory for this tech is that it will get cheaper and cheaper at the same time it gets better and better.  Eventually FSD will be a free thing or very cheap thing to purchase alongside the car, maybe 1-2k. Lidar is under $1k to build with twice the efficiency now, DeepSeek, etc.  Being an early adopter to this tech is just dumb unless you have cash to throw around for fun. Plasma TV used to cost 5k, now it costs under $500.

This dichotomy worries me even more than if it were just always bad. It creates a sense of trust in the "lucky drivers" that's going to end badly when it eventually does something dumb, and all that might take is a drive to a different location.

> Reality simply doesn’t match up to what I personally experience or what my family members experience. Even on HW3. Or perhaps there is a very wide range of experiences, depending on the exact roads you’re driving on? It’s like when many people complain about Auto Wipers, and someone says they’re all trolls because their Auto Wipers works fine. I have a street near my house, and FSD turned into the wrong side of the yellow line. It is not a well designed intersection, but still. HW3.

Regular autopilot is pretty solid for highwys

> But like what level of comfort is it? That's easy-- I'm comfortable as soon as Tesla is comfortable assuming liability when FSD is engaged.

I wasn't willing to pay the crazy price for the lackluster performance on a car which up until now had no real feasible future for improving beyond a certain threshold (HW3) Honestly offering the upgrade to HW4 for those who purchased it is not enough to convince me to go through with the expensive and time consuming process to get a somewhat unnecessary and kinda cool feature I don't need

Bullshit!

It almost killed me yesterday, so skeptics will remain.

I see you don’t live in Canada

I just set it as a + percentage and it's great. FSD 13 w/ HW4 is far better for this than FSD 12 and I don't know what version you're running.

It’s the steering wheel nags that make me disable it.

> If one day FSD has 90% fewer accidents than manually driven cars, Tesla still couldn't afford to pay for liability without making the cars more expensive. 90% might do it, actually. Google says insurance is about $2500/year on average near us... that's enough to cover the chances and costs of a person getting into an accident for a year. With a profit margin, or the insurance company wouldn't offer it. If FSD is $8k and there are 90% fewer accidents... the $8k purchase price would cover roughly 32 years of driving.

Most of my errors were driving style related anyway, so 13 for me has been an incredible improvement. I used to disengage because I didn't want other cars to be confused by what FSD was doing, I never do that anymore. Now it's truly just safety critical disengagements for me.

yeaits really goodnon highway although it still acts like tourist for me. it waits wayvtooblate to move over to exit and in traffic it will route into a faster lane even though the exit lane is bumper to bumper and it wants to cut in but can't and I have to intervene. for city side street driving it is so stressful and have to constantly intervene.

I'm glad they have all sorts of nags to force attention, since it isn't ready yet... but I also agree that the way they've done the steering wheel sensors is awful. "Apply turning force to the wheel to prove you're present but not too much because applying turning force to the wheel is also how you override FSD" is... not great.

I have HW3 and it’s no where close. Been using it for over a year

V13. The problem is that by the time I have an offset set appropriately for how people drive on local roads the max is too high for highway. The local average is 10 over from 30 all the way up to 65, so 33 percent over at 30 maps to way too much when the speed limit is almost double and realistically since it does a good job at picking local road speeds I generally want to leave it uncapped to get the best abiloty to briefly accelerate faster to get around someone. It's really not a problem to ride it as an ADAS (though having the limit to up when the speed drops is annoying). Really, they need a more complex configuration for the max setting to have a max for general speed and for maneuvers, but that still doesn't really help for unsupervised where it needs to be about to make the right decisions for this.

my first free trial my right tire scraped the curb on a simple right hand turn before I could grab the wheel. second free trial it did better on that turn, but I was ready to yank the wheel ... I think it's great for some kinds of driving, but not great for some of the messier and more confusing roads around me.

I had these issues too and honestly on 12.6 it is unbelievably better. Very natural, accelerates to pass, and proactively moves out of the passing lane just as quickly as possible. My only problem now is the "standard" mode wants to drive at or maybe 5 over the speed limit and "hurry" sits around 15 over and I'd prefer somewhere in between. So I'm toggling between those depending on traffic conditions.

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It won’t run on 2022 models?

What FSD version?

If there's one place to not allow autonomous vehicles its Boston and New Jersey.

On a long trip my wheel is right in the way so I can’t see the silent quick time events.

V13 is good, I could see a few more iterations of 13 becoming unsupervised. I have V12 on my commuter, and it's nowhere near where 13 is.

HW4 in MYLR. Still skeptical. Still in my 3-month trial from purchase. So far have had to abort and take control for the following: Changing lanes into a lane that ends < 150 feet ahead. Changing lanes into a closed lane marked with construction barrels. To prevent no right-on-red turns marked by signage. In a dual left-turn lane where there was no dashed white line for guidance and crossed over where the line would have been. On 5+ occasions I've had to stomp on the pedal to override slowing down at green lights. On 5+ occasions I've had to undo lane changes as the target lane was slower/stopped ahead vs the lane I was already in. I've lost count how many times the speed limit changed, and it didn't register the increase and continued along 20mph below the limit. Also lost count on how many times the map has tried to route onto side streets around an intersection. It still drives like a teenager that just got their license and doesn't anticipate deviations from normal rules that are marked by signage.

I own FSD and I’m a huge skeptic. Biggest consumer scam of our time

I’ve heard this with every new release. I guess some minds are not blown as easily. I use FSD most drives and subscribe. It’s a great way to reduce driving fatigue but it requires constant monitoring and corrections most drives. FSD steered directly into highway debris and scraped a curb this week, understandably this makes it hard to trust

I've tried it many times and continue to be skeptical.

I've clocked about 12,000 miles on it, this is unrepresentative of my experience. I think by "does something insane" you mean "makes completely safe style choices different from mine"

This point of view I don’t understand. The car (with HW4) drives me from home to work and back in northern NJ, a total of about 40 miles round trip that combines city and highway driving, and lane merges in heavy traffic. There are a total of 1-2 interventions total for the entire trip, the first to avoid a pothole (it still doesn’t seem to recognize those) and another to take a slightly different route that I prefer over the one Tesla maps out for me. There are times when it has made mistakes but it’s doing over 95% of my driving for me these days. Most of the remaining 5% is when I decide to take over for fun.

I’ve had FSD on my cars since the first release (early access tester here). I’m not a skeptic of FSD in general, but it’s absolutely not ready for Robotaxi action. Not even close. Even if we (for the sake of argument) say that it’s 99% of the way there, that 1% is going to take years (and different hardware).

Haha. Won’t even run on my 23

Being on HW3 I’m hopeful but skeptical . I might change my mind when they upgrade my hardware but right now it’s nowhere near unsupervised.

That will never happen, but you already know it

I have tried FSD for multiple trials. I'm on my second Tesla. Each version has been hyped. Each has been a let down. Don't let my experience hurt your feelings. You can go all in on it. I'm good.

Pretty sure they also do it in areas that don't have a ton of Teslas. I'm in the Bay area and got them once v12 and v13. I see people posting about getting 4 trials.

It’s badass. I use it everyday. I wish there would be an update where I didn’t have to pay attention to the road though

I’ve only had one trip in a Tesla with FSD. Friend wanted to sell me on how awesome his car is. To be fair, it did ok, no major screw ups. It was a weekend, not a lot of traffic and out of the city for the most part. Maybe if I used it for a month or so, I would get a better sense of the behavior and would be used to predicting when I need to take over the wheel etc. But I just never felt like I could take my eyes off the road. And at that point, I failed to see how this was that much better than adaptive cruise control. At least when it comes to the highway.

It's great except it almost drove me into a train loll For real I must have pissed off the AI somehow 😑

I hadn't thought about that, but you're right. All it took was the first slip up by the FSD and was on edge like I was teaching a teen to drive for the first time.

So I just got my first Tesla in December and I have a 1 month plus 3 month free promo trial. I must say I think it’s incredible. I maybe drive myself 5% of the time right now. Other than being really slow at stop signs (the appropriate 3 seconds let’s be honest), or occasional me getting nervous with half a mile to go and I gotta make my exit and we are in the far left lane (but still managed to make it over), I love the damn thing lol

I use every free trial even less than the previous one. I don't care about this at all. If I wanted to be driven around, I wouldn't buy a car. Thankfully, Tesla puts up a nice "swipe to purchase" FSD on your display the first time you drive after it expires...

It’s just crazy that this is the reality of it. I disagree that it does crazy things in my experience m. I would say for city driving it’ll do some crazy things in only a few pretty rare situations or in parking lots. For me when I had the trials, it was great (not 8k great for me, but still). I often wonder if there’s some other manufacturing variation that leads to pretty varied responses by the software. Getting all these sensors to be aligned, positioned, and performing the same across millions of vehicles probably varies with some significance.

A point of view is an opinion we can debate… I just had had actual bad experiences with it. There’s no “we can agree to disagree” here— my car drove into oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road less than a minute into one of my free trials with it. That’s not a point of view. It’s what happened.

False. I’ve tried it and it frankly scares me at times. Works in some situations but in others is terrifying.

No, I mean less than a minute into the free trial it turned directly into oncoming traffic on the wrong side of the road.

FSD is a great product and I look forward to its launch once it exits the beta version stage sometime in the 2030s.

Would love to know what has given you issues with the current version. I have logged hundreds of miles on it in the last few weeks with 0 interventions, surface roads, freeways, snowy weather. Edit** I saw further down that you are on HW3, that seems to be a contributor.

HW4 might be finally there… but it’s only been a couple of days since they finally just barely sorta admitted that maybe HW3 can’t ever do it. Keep in mind that at the time of my free trials, everyone was still being told these cars were all capable of it. But yeah, first time I had a trial… car turned left straight into oncoming traffic on the wrong side of a divided road, in less than a minute.

I use it daily in rush hour. It is a game changer. I’ve had FSD since I got it in late 23. It was awful. Fast forward and I can’t imagine not having it. Caveat - I turn it on once I’ve merged into traffic on the interstate and my trip to work is pretty basic and not challenging for the system. When I DO use it in more “complex” navigation, I liken it to a more cautious new or timid driver - as it should be. I will shoot a gap using the speed of the vehicle and my own judgement that it would never do. But it continues to improve and is incredibly functional and the brigading against it cracks me up. Some of you just want something to bitch about, I swear.

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Yea. I tried it and was not impressed. I drive better so……..

FSD is great it’s just not worth $8k over basic autopilot

It's impressive with v13 on hw4. But far from $8k or $100/month impressive. Closer to 1/10th that is how impressive it is.

Tesla FSD has incidences, in which a human needs to intervene, on average every 750 miles, Waymo by comparison has incidences every tens of thousands of miles. Elon is running a business and he understands hype and promises that have no consequences when unfulfilled increase the stock price

I see people say this all the time but as a daily user I really have never experienced anything close to a dangerous maneuver. Are you on HW4? It drives me 120 miles a day through two cities and the interstate.

No, I'm on HW3. Keep in mind that until like two days ago, Tesla was telling everyone that this was up to the task. So for all of the free FSD trials I've had, this was supposed to be good enough. It took it less than a minute to turn directly into oncoming traffic on a divided road. If HW4 can actually do it, that's good news... lots of people are telling me that, although there's also quite a few people still saying they have serious issues with HW4, so things are clearly not completely there yet. It does sound like HW4 is a step forward though. Seems silly to offer HW3 free trials, though, because it just hammers home to HW3 owners that Tesla's judgement on when something is ready can't be trusted.

It’s gotten better. But the missing link IMO is it doesn’t drive like me. Maybe you could argue it drives safer but when you’re the only passenger and in the driver seat, I’d rather just do it myself

lol. I’ve had it for 5 years. Im not skeptical that one day we won’t drive cars anymore but no way it’s anywhere close to mass rollout of such a thing.

Yeah… with the phantom trucks that show up besides me and a random parking spots showing up in oncoming traffic I haven’t even attempted to try using it in active driving. I haven’t even used it to park and don’t even fully trust it there but when I have no car next to me it is nice

Exactly my experience. I seem to get one every 6 months or so. After about a week I always turn it off. Having AP on the highway is all I need. In town driving is just easier to do myself than relying on FSD.

Mine just camps the left lane everytime I try FSD on the highway. I even manually change it to the right lane and a min later it will auto go back into the left for no reason.

My last trial I was on perfectly straight road in clear conditions and it randomly swerved into the other lane for no reason. Luckily a car wasn't coming the other way. Even have video footage: https://youtu.be/l5nEqN4eL8Y?si=N_ZdESV3oGeykYgK

My car was made September 2023 and can't. Presumably you could have a Model 3 made in December 2023 and be on HW3 still. Now I did my research and knew what I was getting so I am personally not mad or anything. But plenty of people don't.

If FSD was so good they wouldn't have to be constantly sending out free trials to get more data. People would be paying for it.

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You’re probably right

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Totally amazing and not yet good enough

it was terrifying in my two trials . ridiculous lane changes, abrupt scary things at exits .. hot approach to stopped cars, and hotter startups from lights turning green. Not for everyone, and plenty of skeptics went through the trials in 2024

Google’s been doing that for a decade near me… the cars are like… paranoid-safe, which makes them irritating but mostly not dangerous. They still do astonishingly stupid things, though. The one-lane roundabout leading to our office parking garage is where they will stop and sit for ten minutes waiting to pick up people from a nearby hotel. It takes about 30 seconds during rush hour for this to cause a backup back out onto the main road, and minutes for that backup to go all the way back through multiple traffic lights. But it’s not causing a wreck… just risking somebody finally snapping and beating the hell out of the car.

It only fails two or three times per commute. Silly skeptics

LOL I own a tesla and it should be criminal to charge for FSD in its current state

I’m not a fan of Elon or Tesla. Just a common man who wanted a car to go to work 3 times a week coming out of pandemic. Tesla Model Y seemed the right choice so made the move in end of 2023. Been using FSD on and off. Mostly disappointing until v13 came. It’s been 2 months and I can’t thank enough. My commute is 47 miles one way. Plus have to pick up kids which means commuting during peak hours. If not for FSD, the level of fatigue I would endure could be unexplainable. My life is not so hard primarily because of the FSD. Pretty soon many will understand this and adopt it. FSD might never be perfect. So are we. There are always days where we felt that we could have driven better.

> It was so good compared to the old auto steer navigate on auto pilot. When? When was it ever better than Auto Steer and Navigate on AutoPilot with radar on the highway? Auto Steer was annoying on non-highways since it was limited to 5 over though. The fact that it can never keep the set speed has made it useless to me, half the time it doesn't even go the speed limit when I've set it for 5-15 MPH over.

nailed it

To be fair the version I’m on doesn’t work, so I’m biased.

Well for me at least it used to pin to max speed and pretty much go that the whole time. That was before the profiles. Whenever that was. But my last two teslas didn’t have radar so maybe with radar it was worse for you

Paying $200 to be a beta tester is crazy IMHO. FSD drives like an 80yo lady.

Agree. Mine wouldn't go the speed limit. Either 20 over or 20 under. Worthless

I’m not a skeptic. I paid for it. And I want it in Germany!

Tell me you're on v12 without telling me you are on v12. I have a 55mph highway that v13 decides should be taken at 82 if I don't limit it.

lol. Lmao, even.

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I had an FSD trial on my model Y. Stopped using it because it would slow dramaticly for no reason pretty much every time I’d use it. I would only use it on state highways and the interstate. Disappointing.

Let people continue to sleep on Tesla. I just keep buying their shares every time it dips under $400.

I’m in SoCal and have gotten 2 since 2020

And it’s overpriced.

I’m going on year 6 with it…2 cars

Ahh, that may be it. Ive never used hurry up mode.

I wonder if unsupervised is just going to go the speed limit and not over (which in itself could be problematic, lol)

Or those who have HW3

If FSD was real it would sell like chocolate chip ice cream on a hot summer day.

Seems like so many more, but I do live and work exactly in their test area. They are without a doubt better behaved than my Tesla with FSD, but still not really ready for what they’re doing. And they had better be, covered in a quarter-million dollars worth of sensors.

That’s what I mean. It’s great you haven’t had any issues, but pay attention, because one of these days you’ll drive somewhere where the car tries to murder you and you won’t be ready of you’ve gotten used to trusting it. If you’ve had it for six years, you’ve got even older hardware than I do, and mine drove me straight into oncoming traffic within a minute of trying it out in the first free trial.

I tried it, it almost killed me once…

13.2 HW4. The only reason I ever intervene is if it makes a non-optimal lane change. It doesn’t do anything dangerous and I regularly let it drive me my entire 40 mile commute to work without intervention.

Every 10 miles for me

I’ve tried it during the free trials and it definitely didn’t take 750 miles for it to have incidences. Maybe if you’re only using it for highway driving.

It took less than a minute for my first free trial on HW3 to drive me straight into oncoming traffic on the wrong side of a divided road. Sounds like HW4 might be better, but why on earth are they giving HW3 free trials while claiming it’s fully capable when it’s just going to turn people off FSD entirely? I gave it a second chance in the next trial, and it was similarly terrifying similarly fast. All the trials have done are convince me Tesla can’t actually tell if something is ready.

What HW do you have

How long ago was your 3 day test?

I don't think this is accurate. Vancouver is a big Tesla city and we've gotten the free trial probably 3 times in the last year

When they gave everyone the free trial a few months ago. And also in early 2020.

It’s great 99% of the time. Attention monitoring is horrid. My wife hit 3 strikes today in a couple hours because she’s tired and squints at night. It give me strikes whenever I look at the screen if I have a hat on and am leaned back a little in my seat.

I’ve had my M3 since 2019 and have had FSD multiple times. I turn it off now when they give me trails. It’s not good. I’m sorry

I used it to drive from Virginia down to Florida for 95% of the ride in my CyberTruck. It worked pretty good and made the ride much more relaxing. I had to intervene once on I-95 when some asshole came off the entry ramp to the interstate and tried to cut over 2 lanes at once, but other than that it was great. Also note, that you have to play around with the settings to get it to match your driving style, but that’s ok too.

Everyone’s standard of driving is different. What may be acceptable to 75% is not up to par with the other 25%. I like my FSD trials and I’d use their proposed FSD fleet to get from one place to another if it means I’m not liable for the car if it gets to an accident on its own. But paying for FSD on my own car where I’ll be responsible for any accidental damage that may occur to my own vehicle? Not a chance, I’d rather save the $ and drive myself.

Not true

Yup, I'm on hardware three and it is crazy at times. I turned off FSD completely so I can have actual cruise control (have stalks and no way to turn on FSD and cruise control) with autopilot when I want some kind of automation.

Look, if I could have basic cruise control and FSD, then I like buy it, but most the time I need just cruise control.

Show me a video of a Tesla doing FSD around New Delhi. That’s what it takes to convince me Elon isn’t 💯💩.

Yeah I second this… been using it for last two months and it’s dam near perfect… I’m totally shocked how good it is.

We had 3 close calls requiring intervention in the first 10 miles of our FSD trial a few months ago and my wife and I looked at each other and said "nope!" I want autonomous driving to work, and riding in a Waymo is great, but Tesla's system is not one I trust.

Odd. Last month I couldn't get my FSD to stay below the speed limit on the interstate.

The amount of highway miles skews the Tesla statistic substantially. I have interventions regularly.

Tbf, until it’s unsupervised and Tesla has liability, you should *never* trust it.

Totally agree. Even after they assume liability, I still plan to wait and see how claims are actually handled and how fast people are back on the road when it inevitably fucks up.

I was a mild skeptic. Then a bought a model y. After more than a year, I’m not just a skeptic, I’m quite certain that current hardware will never be unsupervised. I’d say zero percent chance at this point. Elon uses hype for FSD to sell cars and fund the long journey to FSD that will maybe be unsupervised on future hardware.

It has gotten worse every free trial :/

I had a better overall experience with 12.3.6 than 13.2.2. It’s been a year of net regressions, and I don’t understand how people say it’s getting drastically better. At least 12.3.6 just kind of did the basic task on the highway of keeping up with the set speed, and not switching lanes for no good reason. 13 is awful on highways.

You are high if you think FSD only has an incidence every 750 miles. My 2023 frequently will miss exits cause it’s in the left lane stuck in traffic cause it can’t plan ahead based on traffic conditions

A few months ago?! What hardware do you have and what software version do you currently have installed?! 👀🤔

Only used it on freeways, and it worked well. But it freaked me out on surface streets. Jerky and made bad decisions. Overall, I haven’t missed my Tesla since selling it a year ago.

I didnt like it. Drives like a scared teenager. Almost killed me twice

I think your feedback is really fair. A 2x improvement every 6 months by your way of viewing it is still really good. Tesla is setting aggressive timelines and will probably fall short of them. But by the time my kid is an adult, there will probably be one good fully self driving vehicle on the road, and that's cool to think about. Also, I'm curious if you've tested 13.2 yet?

I tried last 2 betas. While every update is significant, it is still ways away to be able handle all scenarios that a human can.

V12 (which first went wide with 12.3.6 and its similar predecessors) is included in this massive year of progress that I'm talking about. The tidal wave started with the broad V12 release in March 2024. That was a gargantuan leap that set the stage for subsequent improvement. But I completely disagree with you that 12.3.6 is better than V13. In my experience, V13 is *so* much better. And it's incredible on highways. Obviously it can't robotically stick to one lane and robotically drive at a set speed like before end-to-end, but the result is that it drives so much more naturally and so *well* in general.

Us in the UK: Well I guess I’ll have to believe whatever you say.

Which version did you test? Elon said to try the latest one and feel the difference.

That applies to almost everything in the world.

Overpriced junk.

> And also in early 2020. FSDbeta wasn't a publicly available thing until Fall 2021. And even then, it was the closed beta that you had to qualify for via safety score. No such thing as a free trial in that timeframe.

I cannot stand the waymo comparisons. Waymo is geofenced on roads its specifically trained on and cannot operate in areas it is not trained on. The way it is trained is it needs an extremely accurate 3D scan/mapping of each segment of road, including every signal, sign and road marking. It then has to train the model to drive that particular section using real world and also simulated scenarios (NOT REAL DRIVING DATA) to train their model. It cannot operate where this type of mapping and training has not occurred yet. As a solution it's scalability is atrocious. The only reason it's 10,000 miles between interventions is because it can only go around in circles in the small geofenced area it's been trained for and gets objectively poor results anywhere outside of that geofenced area. I will however hand it to Waymo, they are fantastic nowadays in the areas they can operate. Slow, but great. It's usually people fucking with the cars that cause issues and they're bad when they happen. For a while they were bricking cars with a traffic cone place on the hood. It will just sit there and do nothing and cause major traffic jams. If you want to compare solutions we should also compare the millions of miles of roads you can operate Teslas FSD in the United States, vs the roughly 1000 miles of mapped roads in the entire United States where you can operate Waymo cars. They're not comparable. My prediction is Waymo dies all at once the moment FSD is certified lvl 3 autonomy. That said, people should do away with the idea they'll get to place their personal Tesla cars into robotaxi service or even have it drive with nobody in it to go home or pickup your kids. For the foreseeable future, at best they'll be able to scroll reels or watch a movie while sitting in the drivers seat, but not be allowed to go to sleep.

This is kind of where I sit. It’s an awesome party trick but it takes about a minute before I go NOPE, I’ll just drive

It’s like all the Chat AI software out there - we’re use them because they’re good, and then they fail, we just click a button and it retries. Problem is that when you’re in a car and it fails, you might not have that button to retry.

I trust it to a point. Like roads I know I trust it on it is just when the road conditions are less than idle it really stops being useful

Depends where you are, I’m in Austin and it works very well in most parts of town. I was with my mom up north when she tried it on a 2025 Model X and it pulled into the wrong parking lot but everything else was perfect

My latest update of fsd has me veering across the center lane frequently. More common the happen when its passing someone—probably half the time it does this. This last update is a huge step back.

HW3 M3P purchased in December 2022

Does Elon himself use FSD exclusively? Would be good to have the CEO demonstrate his full confidence in the system. Dogfooding 101. Imagine Boeing CEO not flying on Boeing planes. Would not be a good sign for the company!

Another bored billionaire shilling his garbage. I’ve owned a Tesla since August of last year and received 3 free month-long trials. Unpredictable is the kindest adjective I can think of. The fucking car can’t even get auto wipers to work properly and for some reason *I’m* skeptical of some janky self-driving software that will surely be the end of me and my family the moment I let go of the wheel. The phantom braking on *basic* cruise control is flaky as it is. Real fun on those HOV lanes.

Elon is delusional. I have two Teslas (3 and X), both equipped with HW3. I have done over 1000 miles on both cars with FSD engaged. It's absolute crap. It can go no longer than about 5 minutes before it does something stupid and I have to intervene, and that's including highway driving. It cannot handle merging vehicles from an entrance ramp. It cannot plan for an exit in congested traffic. It cannot handle non-controlled access highways that have median crossings or left turn lanes. It has no concept of toll plazas that require proper lane usage. It's several grades worse than useless.

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I got 2 free trials very recently. Both were bad

Check which version it is. If it’s v13 and you get annoyed with it something is very wrong.

I’ve tried it and it’s not “it”.

Oh yeah you’re right, it was a demo of EAP on my first model 3. We definitely had a trial of FSD before this latest one, though. Most have been the first month we had our second model 3 in early 2023.

I like autopilot better anyway

I would try it but I can't.. it's not available to me

Tesla needs to show the ability to actually have autonomous driving without human intervention - it doesn’t matter if they put restrictions, they haven’t accomplished the goal. Another commenter said the challenge FSD has taken on is harder than Waymo - that’s true, but there aren’t points awarded for level of difficulty until the product works without human intervention for ten of thousands of miles. For now they haven’t crossed any finish line and it’s future promises by Elon to keep stock price up and evangalists loyal, like a dad saying we’ll actually go to the movies next weekend every week

Every time I get a FSD trial I give it a few shots and always end up switching it off in a few minutes. In the Seattle region it consistently misses highway exits, ignores no turn on red signs and gets confused near construction sites all the time. I feel a whole lot more stressed turning fsd on.

It’s weird, I’ve been using FSD for 3 years now but when I have people in the car I still manually drive on the city streets (it’s too embarrassing for me). So I know it’s fully capable when I can turn it on with passengers.

I bought my car in 2021. I paid for the whole FSD package, because "it will work in Europe next summer". Don't fucking blame it on the "regulators" when your hand gestures aren't helping in convincing them. I guess I'm a "sceptic".

Exactly this. I became a skeptic AFTER trying it (multiple times… I want it but it fails to earn my trust every time)

So true!

Do you have it?

I don't know what s/w version it was at the time, but it was in our late-2021 MY (HW3, I assume). We enabled the free trial of FSD, drove out to dinner, and I had to take over twice within the first few miles on the highway (once during merging and once when our lane was ending due to construction -- both times it just couldn't seem to make sense of what was happening). That is my wife's car. I've had my P85+ (my daily driver) since 2013, but that doesn't even have parking sensors, let alone cameras.

Yeah but fucking 8,000 for beta?

The gap between 12.5 and 13.2 was so large that I could see it being unsupervised in v15. 13 is amazing but there are still too many things that it can't handle to look away for extended amounts of time

There's more bots and activists here than you can imagine,

Preach, brother. Money talks and bullshit walks.

I believe the newest one currently is HW4 right

Yes

I have a 2024 MY, I believe that’s HW4 right

Yes

yeah, our cybertruck is on 13.2.4, our Y is on 13.2.2... and I don't recall that changing recently.

I tried it during one of the free use windows last year, and immediately shut it off. It doesn’t drive anything like I would. Moreover, I didn’t buy a Tesla to have someone or something else drive it for me. Elon has never understood that many of us *like* driving.

I describe it as a 16 year old driver. Unaware of curbs, awkward lane changes, shitty acceleration. It’ll get you there though I guess.

It's garbage, doesn't even work in the UK.

They can run fsd in shadow in the background on the whole fleet. https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/2397/tesla-updates-fsd-from-v1236-to-v125-on-update-202444

It’s great on the highway, it’s rough in-town in my experience.

FSD is by far the best steering assistant out there. FSD is not Self Driving, not even close. F must stand for something else than Full.

This is not exactly true we do not know how often waymo's safety drivers intervene.

V13 really nailed it. It drives smoother and better than some of my friends. Not perfect by any means, but I’m very confident using it for the entire trip now

If they pushed it as an advanced cruise control then it would already be considered the greatest thing ever with no skeptics. They pushed it as fsd instead and it’s not quite there.

It is full self driving or it isn't there is no in between.

I tired it. It isn't safe.

No danger at all, whats the problem? It just avoids something on the ground.

Fsd is functionally useless for me and I regret having it. My 2016 Tesla with the radar was 100x more useful. I don't even have time to put an address in before the damn thing starts beeping at me to look at the road. I can't pick anything up off the ground if I've dropped it. I can barely even change the music/air conditioning. If I'm stuck in traffic I'm better off just moving the car myself because it's incapable of inching forward in traffic without complaining that I'm not paying attention. That's just my issue with it's actual usability. The fsd itself has tried to run red lights. If it's used at night on the highway it slams on its brakes, predicting a crash into oncoming traffic every time there's a curve in the road. It also slams on the brakes at green lights occasionally. There's one road in town that splits in two, and it tries to run itself into a massive pillar to switch lanes at the last second every time. The 2016 Tesla could do all those things with a much less aggressive attention monitor. The only time I actually need the car to drive itself is when I'm on a long straight road or in traffic anyway and it takes care of those things safely with minimal intervention from me.

It’s better than most people think. It’s still not good enough to bet your life on.

Waymo is geofenced. Big difference.

I wish I could, because it has been promised as coming in « three months maybe, six months definitely » for so long that if the price I prepaid for it was a Tesla share I’d be able to afford a personal chauffeur by now…

Wonder how many people would care if they were sitting inside a Cybercab or watching Netflix in their personal Tesla. No one will notice the driving if it gets them from A to B without incident.

I tried it. It sucks

I like that on v12.6 and up, there's now alerts and calibration for dirty cameras. Before you wouldn't know until you were already driving or mid-drive.

Whoever wrote that article must be not speak English as a first language…

Works great on my 2025 model y , not so great with my 2018 model 3. Maybe it’s not a great experience all around, just sayin.

The most recent version improved compared to the first time they gave out free trials. But I still don't trust it as it drives like someone that don't understand pedal control

It's...fine. No where near where it needs to be.

I watched a video by Out of Spec today on China’s latest equivalent version of FSD in the Chinese Avatar and it was amazing. Vehicle uses cameras AND three LIDAR+ one RADAR sensor(s) (small Tesla camera size sensors, not bulky WAYMO size sensors) for input into their system. He drove around a Chinese city downtown for nearly an hour, without a single intervention, as driver chatted with them and the car performed autonomously. It wasn’t an easy drive either. Typical Chinese congestion, with cars forcing their way into lanes, and the car handled everything with aplomb. This is where Tesla’s FSD is trying to get to, but with ONLY cameras to keep the cost down. LIDAR sensors in China have dropped to around $200. China rates the system as 2.9 on a scale of 1-5 autonomy, but driver said their nearly 3.0 system is basically a 5.0 autonomy but for legal/liability issues. The technology works now, but there’s hesitancy to rate it as such. All that said, it’s clear to me now that full autonomy is technically very close. Whether Tesla can achieve that with a vision-only system is mainly an issue of computation. LIDAR can measure distances to within a centimeter to hasten system decisions, but vision-only requires greater computational power to take multiple images to calculate distances before making similar decisions. So, who knows whether Tesla’s current CPU has the horsepower to do that effectively. Time will tell, but this technology is really happening.

I find it more of a “it is amazing until it isn’t.” In other words when it works it works better than the rest for most parts of their self driving range but when it goes hay wire it loses it. I haven’t done all the brands but I’ve done Tesla FSD and used the entry level versions of other brands

As a user you get use to disabling it for drives or sections of drives where it won’t work rather than intervening at the last second so this explains your experience. It works really good on some routes and not others so I’ll only use it on the routes it is competent on now. That’s why you see the difference in reported stats and user experiences. It is the wrong denominator as those who use it on roads where it doesn’t work stop using it and we end up in survivorship bias

Bla bla. Waiting since 2018

I live on Vermont, and even lane correct / “autopilot” doesn’t work on most secondary roads.

The title statement is *prima facie* an error of the Association Fallacy. It can be illustrated by the following table: ||Have Tried FSD|Have *Not* Tried FSD| |:-|:-|:-| |**Believers**|Some who have tried FSD believe in it|*nobody claimed in this group*| |**Skeptics**|Some who have tried FSD are skeptical|Only skeptics have not tried FSD| |**No Opinion**|Some who have tried FSD have no opinion about it|*nobody claimed in this group*| For the statement to be true, *everyone* who has not tried FSD would necessarily have to be a skeptic of it. But it should be easy to see that there may be people who aren’t aware of FSD and thus have neither tried it nor have an opinion about it, which contradicts the bottom right group. Likewise I’m sure you may find people who are persuaded by the hype of FSD but haven’t had an opportunity to try it, which contradicts the top right group.

I have it and like it but don’t trust it at all. I’ve had to save myself about a dozen times. Also a bit off topic, some sort of collision avoidance failed big time when I was driving down the highway and a motorcycle cut right i front of me and sped off. I saw it this happening and got surprised by the car slamming the breaks from 65+ to 35 in a moment. It actually hurt me. Edit: I was not using FSD when it slammed the breaks I was just driving myself and had no reason to worry about the motorcycle. I am very skeptical that vision alone is enough. I would trust it more if it combined with other sensors. I think vision would be enough if all other vehicles were electric and all cars knew about all other car positions, which should become mandatory. But as is, with all the morons driving around, it’s not enough. My tesla can’t even smoothly navigate a roundabout, construction zone, or parking lot. Even the self back in parking feature almost bumps a car in front every single time when pulling forward to get space to swing into the spot

there are a few modes for how …aggressive you want it to be

And it will never, can never, be what Musk sold it as.

Let's put it this way: with HW3... I'd rather be drunk than use FSD for more than a few miles. HW4 I don't know but HW3 is so bad that I'd rather just use regular cruise control.

Since buying my used model 3 I’ve had 2 free trials and each time I’m more convinced that Tesla should be paying US to test out that software. I want FSD to be good, but it’s not. And I think charging money for something called Full Self Driving when I had to intervene every single time I used it, is ridiculous. I agree, when they can claim full liability for accidents, that’s when it’s actually ready.

Whenever I get the free trial I turn it on and I end up turning it off a day later. It always tries to pass a car in the slow lane when my exit is .5 miles away. No Tesla, I don’t want you to pass the car then cut him off to try to get off. I don’t care if the guy is going 65 just slow down behind him.

I've tried it several times and it's no where near ready. 2 tesla owner. Love the cars, but if you think fsd is going to replace a driver anytime soon, you're delusional

I've tried it and this will cause a lot of deaths. It's not done cooking.

It’s a disaster waiting to happen. The system still struggles with turning left on red at an intersection near me. The left turn arrow is on a delay, but the car senses the two lights for the primary lanes turning green and wants to tuen across the traffic even though the left turn arrow in the dedicated turning lane hasn’t changed from red. The first time it tried to do it, it nearly got me killed. No fucking way I trust that system with my life, or my family’s lives.

Meanwhile for those not in the X bubble Xiaomi’s platform was tested by Out of spec https://youtu.be/VuDSz06BT2g?si=eds5I4NbXIvmOd9O It did very well with 1 intervention in a parking lot

It tried to jerk us into oncoming traffic on a highway multiple times on a drive to LA while using the trial. Yeah, no thanks.

You can't call it full self driving when I still need to be the one driving. I have no idea how they get away with that, idiots aren't going to understand that they still have to pay attention and people will die for it. If it was just idiots aren't going to understand your marketing buzz word I wouldn't care, but when it potentially puts other lives in danger yeah that's an issue for me.

I've driven (ridden? Operated?) in several self-driving cars including a Model 3. I think the technology is a marvel and I'm sure it will make its way into all passenger cars eventually. Once it is common place, people won't be able to imagine life without it. But that doesn't make it investable. The main problem is there will not be a sustained moat. Maybe Tesla will be the first to release a true FSD, maybe they won't. But it won't matter because after a few years every OEM will have their own. Also I think it's quite likely that regulations will force all FSD models to converge to the point of being indistinguishable from one another.

I have it, it sucks on hw3.

I’m always paying attention, but I’ve been on probably 20+ roadtrips all up and down the east coast with it doing all of the driving (except in construction zones, i always pull it out for those). Not a single scary situation. I have annoyances, like lane changing out of the lane you need to be in close to the turn you’re about to make… but I’ve yet to encounter anything remotely dangerous. Its also saved me a few times from cars in front of me slamming on their brakes or people trying to turn into me.

As long as you’re paying attention, I can’t ask for more. I hope it never surprises you!

Lies.

May work on cozy amrican highways. On German Autobahn? No way.

I definitely agree that speed control overall is a bit too one-size-fits-all. I use +30% and find that that's the best balance for me. My commute includes rural two-lanes (where the speed limit is a private joke) as well as highways and suburban boulevards.

And a lot of people that have tried it...

Probably depends on what year the car is and the hardware inside. I’ve been downvoted for saying how great it’s been. I would even feel comfortable enough to not pay attention to the car. I am in a 2025 model.

But this wouldn’t have the data on whether the actual driver’s cancellation/interruption point (e.g. braking or cancelling fsd) which point to fsd’s improvement area.

None of which are aggressive enough for St Louis traffic.

It compares what FSD would do to what the driver did. Which is even better.

I paid the $8000 a week ago for my non FS Cyberbeast, honestly i’m pretty happy with it. I drive a 100 miles a day for work, I put on 7000 miles in my 1st 2 months of ownership and have been very happy. I also keep my cars for 10 years.

FSD is borderline unusable and at worst dangerous. Mine has nearly run me off the road multiple times. I had to eventually turn it off.

The only time I've found it useful is in stop and go highway traffic. Sudden slowdowns on the highway going at speed, pretty useless city street driving.

I hate it, had the chance to try it 3 times now and almost always I switch back to the regular adaptive cruise control. The need to be constantly attentive takes the entire need for FSD out. If I look down to grab my sunglasses: it alerts and beeps.

I’ve tried it. The latest FSD can’t even get me out of my neighborhood. It drives on the left side of the road, it stops randomly at what I guess it must think are 4 way stops. It’s a complete useless disaster. No I’m a skeptic because I have tried it.

They're only counting safety incidents, not missed exits.

$99 but who's counting.