Tesla knowingly covered up my overheating AP computer by virtually turning off my preconditioning HW3 LFP - 12 Visits Later

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How did you figure out they were doing that?

Wow. So sorry you have spent so much time dealing with this. Thanks for posting and raising awareness!!

Because my battery doesn't charge beyond 75KW anymore? And it says it's below 20C and now my computer no longer overheats? Like what? Then there you know the fact they told me they modified the preconditioning behaviors, and tried to buy it back at then end of it? Not to mention there are hundreds of people saying their computers overheat too and their preconditioning was turned down after going to SC because of the battery overheating.

Is it hundreds? Or thousands? I keep an active eye on forums and haven’t seen this mentioned like you claim.

Yeah if you look at my posts some of those have 100k+ views, I know of hundreds of people personally on reddit that have come forward about the issue, and some of my posts are still getting new people drawn to them everyday because they Google issue AP computer overheating, and it's about our cars. However it's gaurenteed that there are thousands of vehicles at risk of overheating on our roads in Canada alone, as all 2023 Model 3 LFPs have this issue I have confirmed and shown many people that their computers run hot i.e over 80C is hot over 90C is dangerous, and over 100C is the only time you get a warning in service menu/FSD drops. I had one computer that only got to 98C so unless you knew to look for it you wouldn't know it's there. As you have to be in colder climates while preconditioning for it to get hot enough to crash the computer Trust me when I say this over the past year I've had so many loaners and each one of them that were late 2022 and 2023 had computer hitting over 90C, whereas the newer models and model Ys rarely ever if at all hit 80C even with HW3. Anyway it's very clearly an issue, but I have been active with thousands and thousands of views on my posts so much that even AI scrapes my posts when you ask it about LFP Tesla Model 3 AP overheating, I have a community of people that I talk to weekly about the bullshit I've encountered I gaurentee someone will likely even post on here in the coming weeks if the post gets enough traction, I know on Tesla Support it will as it always have since this started last year. My point is you can defend Tesla and say I'm making it up but there have been countless similar situations triggering class actions in the past so you would be naive to think this, considering the email I posted Tesla doesn't just easily offer to buy back vehicles.

Thank you for raising awareness. I've never heard about this issue. Sounds really stupid they can't just fix it.

Hundreds on Reddit alone? How have I not see these posts before?

This is one of my more popular ones[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/s/x4oxpgCpYC)

Or [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/s/CgyxnhvCmU)

Or even [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/s/Fvx46Kfvlf)

If you read he comments there are new people coming forward everyday

Is this only if you have FSD ?

What if you just don't precondtion car for super charging does error still occur? Seems like easy fix

No it'll still run hot, potentially not as bad, check your service menu no alerts mean it's below critical board damage if 100C plus. However it'll get into the warning ranges of 95C without FSD and good hardware. At it's worst it would still drop out of autopilot on the highway, but it has to be really cold out so the battery heating is working harder, because in the background the computer is still running FSD on autopilot even though it looks different on the screen, but a lot of times it wouldn't get hot enough unless you preconditioning on FSD. But if you don't have alerts in your service menu you are probably ok though it runs hotter, but over 100C is board death, below if it's consistent it can cause premature board failure which I experienced with my first computer. 105C is drop it temp 100C triggers an alert, anything over 95C for anything less than short periods (less than a min) is bad for the chip long term.

Yeah if you don't precondition you're good, but in Canadian winters that take a 30-45min charge to 1.5-2hrs which I do not charge at home. That's why the "fix" was to turn it off. But now my car doesn't charge quickly so it's useless for me as I live in an apartment. That's why I bought a Tesla not a vinfast was the heat pump and FSD. Therefore the car no longer serves its purpose at purchasing what I bought isn't what I bought anymore it's just as good as a vinfast or Nissan leaf. It's not just in FSD it'll run very hot outside of FSD and fry my computer in the background, FSD dropping out is a symptom, running 95C plus is bad for the hardware, and will cause board death which is the range of full Preconditioning before they toned it down.

Wonder if I’ll get this issue now that I upgraded from 2.5 to 3.0 by purchasing FSD on my 2018 Model 3.

Does this happen only when using FSD? Was this a China version ? I have the same year but haven't noticed anything.

Why would this be happening? Do the battery heater and the heatsink for the AP computer have some connection to each other or something? This correlation of issues doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm guessing there is a connection if they're offering buy-back.

You should try to catch it right when you get to a charger check service menu see if your temps are close to 90C that's very hot, however it may say under the 105C dropout temps but anything over 95C is bad very bad for computer long term.

I've gotten reports from both, it'll run hot still without FSD but not over 100C typically around 90-95C which is bad for computer long term, autopilot used FSD so even if you don't subscribe it's still running. Your temps will be hotter than typical M3s AWD and Model Ys. The temps should be close to 80C as the loaners I have tested I couldn't get them hotter than that. But the LFPs on HW3 they run in the 90s now. FSD dropping is just the symptoms of an APU temp of 105+

Yes battery heating loop and computer are on the same cooling loop. Trust me I've done my research with others online over the past 12 months https://preview.redd.it/ybrlbkvkkxkg1.png?width=1008&format=png&auto=webp&s=7198fb699282eca62ab9a6868131636b439cfaff

Look for this next time you get close to a charger after preconditioning like 30+ mins this was without FSD enabled at the charger https://preview.redd.it/c5tuspbqkxkg1.png?width=1008&format=png&auto=webp&s=85c1765aa78a8ebffa13dc84e156fafecd764d71

Here is my post about the issue there are others but as you can see I am not the only onr[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaSupport/s/tSII7kOOWB)

I'll keep an eye out Was yours a MIC version ? Any codes to look out for in service mode? I saw your screen shot about AP temp, I can look there but curious if anything gets logged.

Yes it will over 100C it'll say something along the lines of "Thermal_Issue"APS_w130_ECU_Thermal_Issue

My ‘21 started getting AP thermal issues recently after an update. The update failed, my cameras went out and I got all kinds of warning every second in service mode. They are now switching my computer 🤔

Keep an eye on that PM me if you want advice I started this process 12 visits ago got a new computer on the 3rd Thanks for confirming I am not the only one

Crazy. what year and spec is your model 3?

China M3 LFP 2023 RWD

New model 3’s from 2024 and on have this issue?

Hope you get it worked out 💪

Oh wow, that's actually pretty neat. Does seem a bit overengineered though - is this really a better option than just having a heatsink and a fan? 😅 These aren't mega powerful server SoCs we're talking about, they're less powerful than a decent gaming PC...

That that I have seen 2023 below all the 24s are ok HW4

https://preview.redd.it/yrk4z117qxkg1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1848e7dd26081dfba69de79000edb15582cc65ac These were the alerts I was seeing. Any familiar ones?

I will one way or other it'll work out, I mean atleast I can drive the car now.

Yes those are them precisely, but could be air in the system but if you've had that checked you're probably in the same boat. Be careful cause they can get it just below the threshold to alert too and usually only does it when Preconditioning and it's cold out. So monitor, they may try to tone down your preconditioning like mine to hide it when they do the computer and it's still overheating, if they do that you won't get over 100KW charging anymore

Good to know, thanks! But if it’s software related, couldn’t it just be fixed with new software? Or am I missing something? I don’t understand exactly why they would rather repurchase your vehicle? It seemed like it was a well known problem when I visited the SC. They took my car in immediately and gave me a loaner.

Thank you for bringing awareness to this issue. Sorry you had to go thru all that with Tesla.

What year and trim is your vehicle btw?

They would have to redesign FSD from over clocking the computer aka limit capabilities but they will not do that. The fix is to tone down preconditioning they don't want to waste redesigning FSD to be less intensive when they are focused on HW4 they use the same team for both and they are too preoccupied where the money is, so they released an bandaid solution and a cover up rather than doing a forced update to the cars. Trust me I've been fighting them over a year on this, you aren't missing something except Tesla would rather do a quick bandaid then redesign FSD software. The more people that come forward maybe they will, but I think it's going to take a full class action to force them to come good with a repair, so we need to force a recall and organize, and I am going to try my best to do that, hence why I'm paying to get the data pulled to give to a legal team. Test your preconditioning after the computer replacement. Cause once over heating is noted they know they need to replace it because it's damaged now with the cameras not working, then they will tone down preconditioning to prevent another failed computer. Maybe they are working on a redesign this year but are worried I might go public and expose them so they are buying me back ASAP.

Well, you aren't leaving your gaming pc on in the 100 degree weather for hours

Thanks I appreciate it!

23' LFP M3 RWD Chinese but the American ones do it too

So… I have a 2023 Model 3 RWD with LFP and HW3 computer. It was built in Fremont, California. How likely am I to have this issue?

I see, thank you so much. I hardly ever supercharge (I’ve supercharged like less than 10 times ever), but I’ll try to see if I can notice any difference once I get my car back (scheduled start of the coming week!). I appreciate your insight into this!

I mean I think everyone runs hotter than 90C, my experience is they all run hot but not everyone can get hot enough to trigger an alert, if you drive preconditioning in below 0C temps for 30 mins to a charger check your thermal menu when you get there if it's red or orange you have it or close to 90C anything over 80C is abnormally hot and will likely cause premature board wear. Look for thermal alerts in your service menu when using autopilot or FSD for 30 mins while preconditioning from cold soak. This is the stress test but will do it all the time while warming battery without preconditioning. 105C causes FSD drop out even the service manager his runs hot too. Virginia models do it to but most don't notice cause they don't supercharge often when it's below 0C, but it's still running hot in the background https://preview.redd.it/qf4l9bu9yxkg1.png?width=1008&format=png&auto=webp&s=95610493b15f51dac47206f649647634eb5e6b6c

Mine is a ‘21 performance. Chinese vehicle, but from the batch which had panasonic batteries. The original battery died after less than 20.000 km, then got a replacement which I suppose is chinese.

Yeah no problem most people don't notice it cause they don't live in Canada in an apartment and supercharge as much as I do which is why many don't notice it. However if I was like you I probably wouldn't care but the FSD software still is making things hotter just not damaging hot

Tesla needs to do better. The fact that they stopped updating HW3 software is concerning. Your particular issue could possibly be resolved with an updated computer revision or software optimization however Tesla is all in on HW4.

Do you know which years/models are affected?

“Lord Elon” never went insane. He started speaking the truth.

Was it an LFP? But it might be a different issue then maybe air in the lines, typically we find it's LFPs but who knows how widespread this issue is.

Yup my thoughts exactly

21-23 LFP model 3s that I know of

Thanks, mine is 24… but it’s a cold part of the world, I’ll keep an eye on it.

I’m guessing not LFP as those are not suitable for the performance model.. I haven’t really checked the battery package, probably a tag on it. I’ll update you on what Tesla says once they finish the service!

You'll be fine it's too new HW4 is not effected but if it's a HW3 it may be

Yeah if you're preconditioning is normal and the computer replacement fixed it you're good I think it's only LFPs at this point I have had very little evidence to show otherwise other than like 2 posts that I discredited myself personally and wrote off as everyone else I know is LFP so I think you're good but yes keep me posted as a data point otherwise :)

Southern California resdent detected

I thought FSD and AP are completely different software stacks?

Appreciate the response!

Amazing data… why would they want the battery that hot? Also hot take, that heat sink on the autopilot CPU seems broken.

I was told by service its running in the background tracking everything even when it's off or not in use and uses this for autopilot but hey they've lied to me before.

I had 4 computers they included the heat sinks they just plug in coolant lines to replacement it's all in one. They've even taken one apart to check it. Battery has to be that hot to charge over 100KW that's why

Lemon?

No lemon law have to sue but yes

LMAO PEOPLE LOVE ELON ELON shoves it up their butt just like Trump does

If this is an overheating problem you would think that this would manifest itself in places like Florida and Arizona long before it manifested in Canada.

It's because the battery warming is on the same cooling loop in Canada it has to heat the battery more which uses the same warmed coolant the computer uses as per the diagram, hence why the fix was to turn down the cars ability to warm the battery. The computer runs hot even when it isn't warming the battery but warming battery means it causes the computer temps to rise on paper the computer is sufficient but when you warm the liquid glycol that cools the computer to 60C it makes it a lot harder to cool the computer. https://preview.redd.it/kp1w0x78rykg1.png?width=1008&format=png&auto=webp&s=be75c7f63eb8c9db02ac3174bf0da964f2616921

I’ve never seen this before so it sounds like an isolated incident.

Yes because you're representing the entire M3 community. I have in this thread already posted other posts I have had with others in the comments mentioning they have this issue, even someone in this thread, just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it's not an issuem It's specific to those with LFPs not M3P, and you'd have to be in a cold climate and supercharge using FSD to even notice any user side errors, it doesn't even trigger alerts until over 100C most people don't monitor their APU tempature unless they have has a history of going over the alert threshold. Colder climates make Preconditioning harsher most model 3 LFPs do not supercharge everyday in cold climate, most have chargers at home. Like I said you have to be below 0C in FSD preconditioning to drop out, but HW3 APU temps over 80C are abnormal prior to the 12.6?4 update and all HW3s run hotter with the new update, above 80C is not typical. LFPs need harsher prcon than lith ion

2023 Model 3 LFP, Fremont built. I use FSD and have Supercharged on road trips quite a bit (over 100 times). FSD has never cut off on me and I’ve pretty much always been able to hit 150-170 kW while Supercharging. I do live in Georgia, though, so maybe this only happens in extreme cold that we don’t get here. Regardless of this issue, LFP is not good for extreme cold… I don’t know why Tesla even sold the LFP model in Canada. Edit: I just looked through my Supercharging history to see the coldest weather I’ve Supercharged in, and found one where I charged when it was 23.9F (-4.5C). I was definitely using FSD then and had no problems, and I hit 150 kW charging too. Also checked my service mode alert history and no thermal alerts on that day, so I guess if this issue really affects all LFP models, it has to be colder than that to make it happen.

Man! Same issue. Ap, gps, camera went out. Had the computer replaced under warranty. Happened right after the last software update maybe 1 month ago.

[deleted]

Do you primarily supercharge? And do you precondition every time (well, in winter at least)? Just curious as another apartment fellow (although I charge at 11kw public ones most of the time).

I wonder if air cooling the chipset is hard to do in a car, given all the other systems, and tight spaces. I've found liquid cooling more reliable for maintaining a stable temp on my pc... but why wouldn't they use a closed loop for the onboard computer, instead of tying it to the rest of the system? That just seems nuts to me.

Yes to both

Me too why add the extra variable

Why not take the $ + extra $2K and buy another of the same vehicle at market value? Why are you screwed in this scenario?

The amd chip isn't part of this loop. That is air cooled. We're talking about the autopilot computer.

The idea was to use all parts of the car to move waste heat around to parts that need it. Take heat from the autopilot computer and the drive inverter to heat the battery.

Yeah, -5C is not cold. But I have regularly done long trips, 5+ hours, at -35C. And no issues at all ever

Because I just bought the car right before the issues started payed a year of payments and lose my down payment because Elons behaviors drove the market down as well the cars valuation is about $4k less than a same milage would have been this year. If I wanted to get market value I'd just have sold the car not continue paying for it for a year, throwing away my down payment. Cars have fees etc when they are bought I bought the car a month before this kicked off and that was 14 months ago... I have not been able to sell the car because of this for 14 months but was able to drive it. There is a Canadian formula for buy back it goes by when the issue started not when Tesla decides to buy it back. That would mean it's in their benefit to hold out, but I can and will recover all my losses in court as the car just has to be under 160k KMs before the case is heard to get the whole purchase price back.

Mine does this, I’m in the UK, 21 plate M3 LR china made, I’ve found running the coolant purge works to reduce the temp but after a while it keeps coming back! Any idea on what the plan could be for someone in the uk? When I put in a service request they ignored all of the images I sent them and went straight to telling me I needed new coolant - I didn’t go ahead with this

I also forgot to say I’m not in the usual warranty only the battery warranty

Wow! I'm going through something very similar. Since my FSD update to hw3 and I paid them three grand and had 3 appointments to things since my update that I had no issues with and they wanted to keep continuing to charge me and tell me even though I'm reporting the same issues that it's not the same Diagnostics. Including charging me for Diagnostics I paid for coolant issues twice and on and on and on. Granted I have a 2018 I bought in September that was one owner but I bought it with only 19,000 miles on it. I've been telling them all along it could be from the hw3 everything that I've reported says it could be from a bug in the update it could be from the software not taken properly. Things that have to do with the update and they're like no I don't think it's cuz of the update. But they want me to keep recording the same problem and keep paying them Diagnostics to fix different things or say they fix different things for the same problem as being reported. However, now seeing this I wonder if this is what it is? I keep telling them it's because of the update. They don't believe me. What dealership out of curiosity did you take yours to?

Why does this happen though? What is the actual mechanism that causes this? What is the difference between my '23 M3 LFP and yours that even with three different computers, you're STILL experiencing the same issue and I have never experienced it while both being in Canada and regularly preconditioning in the winter? Speaking as a repair technician (not car) I don't believe in the "this car is a lemon" theory. Every failure must have reproducible cause. From your description of your service history, it looks like they are just throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Yeah I did all that, new computer and everything they ended up disabling my preconditioning

They were instead of admitting it's software. I'm trying to force a recall as well to get it resolved. Since posting this I am discovering it may be a percentage of vehicles not battery type, but I do know the LFPs tempatures need to be higher to fast charge typically so this could be why you see it more in LFPs and people actually notice. I'm sure they all run hotter on HW3 as they must have over clocked it for 12.6.4

That still doesn't answer the question. HOW? What about the software is causing overheating? And why isn't it reproducible? My car and your car run the exact same software. How has the software caused overheating in four different AP computers for you, but not in any computer for me? That's what I can't wrap my head around.

The APU is on the same coolant loop as the battery my coolant has to be hotter than yours on average to heat the battery the newest FSD software is over clocking the APU to track objects etc, they pushed the limits of HW3 so if the coolant gets hotter so does the computer as my coolant and yours is like 10C warmer just enough to cause FSD drop out and error this is why. https://preview.redd.it/cpwvo5jwn4lg1.png?width=1008&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae863c8204b1c25ac529fbbec469870363a1600f

We have the same car. Why would your coolant loop have to be hotter than mine? I'm also on the latest version of FSD and use it for 99% of my driving. Why do the four AP computers you have gone through need to be overclocked to the point of failure while the AP computer in my car does not? Why is this specific to LFP packs? LFP packs are the lightest packs - they have the least amount of material to warm up and therefore would require lower amounts of heat to warm up compared to other packs. None of this makes any sense.

Okay dude that's your opinion your computer runs hotter than a new HW4 model your likely doesn't hit the threshold like many others, it's not like you are monitoring this daily, I have in a wide range of vehicles over a year. Your computer runs hot just not drop out of FSD hit 105C I bet if you precon from a cold soak and drive to a charger you'll be over 85C but you have to be quick in service menu because as soon as you open it the car stops active warming automatically and has to restart. I am not going to argue in this thread alone there have been 5 or 6 people let alone the PMs I got from 100k views, like I said not all cars drop out, there are many factors that would make yours different from mine ime location, tempature, hardware wear miles and years. So many different variables but the point is a percentage of M3s are overheating to the point of dropping out of FSD, I had one computer it wouldn't go over 100C unless it was super cold out it was the best one I got and they replaced that one too. It's not just me clearly as there are people mentioning this alot on reddit to me and my posts Not a single person who I am in contact with ever got a full resolution where they can precondition normally without rising temps to the warning threshold above 90C You can be in denial of this but it doesn't change the facts that your car could be effected as well. The simple fact is if I wasn't on to something I wouldn't be in the middle of buyback negotiations with a company who doesn't normally offer them in Canada without a court order, expecially when what triggered this was me pressing to remove the preconditioning modifications to my vehicle.

https://preview.redd.it/n9l291n2d5lg1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c1d6c57992cecd23cfb4154142fa11be3230dc5 I was bored and I had to go out for food anyway. This is after driving around for an hour with preconditioning on and FSD active for 30 minutes. Obviously your car has a problem, otherwise Tesla wouldn’t be buying it back. But I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with this one. Preconditioning while driving isn’t even the most thermally intensive thing the car does. Pay attention to what happens when you start supercharging with a cold battery.

What year/ model do you have? And what's with the 12.6.4 that's causing that?

If you were in ca you could lemon it for 17 different reasons

It’s less about cooling the AP computer and more for scavenging the AP computer’s waste heat for the cabin and battery

Do you think this is specific to LFP battery types?

Personally I'd take the Tesla buyback offer but your financial situation may not allow you to make the same decision. I would also purchase a new Tesla to replace it. I do my best to not allow avoidable drama to compromise my happiness.

It makes the computer run hotter which is in same loop as battery so since it's working harder it's overheating

Yup I am suing in Canada instead. I have a reporter taking it on in LA

Yes because LFPs typically requires hotter batteries for supercharging and colder weather they need to heat up more. However I've had many people with other battery types in Model 3 HW3 mention it's not just the LFPs but most are because the coolant is warmer

This is good advice and I will potentially take the offer in a month once I'm doing moving to my new townhouse I can afford to replace my down payment. Basically I just need my $5k down payment back or have to wait until I'm done getting this new housing as in Canada it's competitive credit is important and they ask for bank statements so draining my cheq. Or credit lines before I get a new place will not get me the choices I want. But I agree for sure.

Damn well that sucks. I always thought the LFP platform was bulletproof, but seems like it has an Achilles heel. I have a LR NMC LG battery. Fingers crossed.

Yeah the LFP batteries are dope and that's why I bought it only to find out Tesla likes to destroy people's cars for no apparent reason.

I have that but haven't experienced any issues. Why is that? Is it bc your climate or the car not compatible with the software..?!

Reminds me of the IICU failure and Hyundai. They know an issue is present but refuse to accept responsibility.

I believe it to be because LFPs expecially in cold climates need warmer batteries and have warmer coolant tempatures which the AP is cooled on the exact same loop.

Trust me when I am done with them they will have no choice I have a few reporters I am meeting with along with the legal route. After this I can pressure transport Canada to issue a recall if possible.

I had post warranty issues with fast charging on my 2019 Model 3 SR+ so I took it to a respected aftermarket repair shop in Airdrie, AB. Turned out to be an issue with the conditioning system. They had to do an A/C desiccant and clean out the clogged up conditioning system. Never had issues yet with FSD. Probably different problems than what you were having, also not LFP. After warranty I wouldn’t go back to Tesla, and maybe worth a visit to a shop like My Garage, although not sure what is in your area. Hope you get your problems resolved.

I was planning to buy another Tesla, specifically a 2022 or 2023 used Model 3 with HW3, but I’m feeling pretty concerned after reading this. FSD performance on HW3 isn’t a big factor for me, but this is. I live in California, but I travel to colder climates fairly often, and now I’m wondering if I need to look at a 2024 or newer Tesla Model 3 instead.

I may come to that. However I'm have to get Tesla to remove the preconditioning behavior modifications to the car first as they put it on there. Then I will go that route and send them the bill via a lawsuit.

Is this an issue on 2023 model 3's?

Grok confirms this: https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c4b4c051-2112-4750-a1b7-bf23c8794045