Elon Musk says FSD will only be available as a subscription after February 14. We will own nothing and be happy.

Every auto company is going to do this, my man. The 8K was a stupid high price which would take 7 years to break even with the sub. Sub prices will likely go down as other automakers deploy their efforts (Mercedes and Rivian will be first).

If you don’t own your Tesla anymore then why do you care? The use of FSD is more of a choice for some than a need. It can make more sense for some people to use it on a case by case basis instead of paying all up front. Blue Cruise isn’t even close to FSD and it’s $49 a month. I don’t think you are able to be objective on the topic.

I agree, but the payments do increase the value of the car vs a subscription. EDIT: Can someone explain the downvotes? If you were looking to buy a used Tesla, would you expect to pay the same price for a car with FSD included versus one that requires a monthly payment of $99?

I don’t own a Tesla anymore, but I’ll definitely be back. I work from home so I didn’t need a high car payment on a commuter car, I’m currently driving a 20 year old Land Cruiser. Teslas are the best commuter cars on the market, so if/when I need a commuter, I’ll be back. Regardless, I’m sick of companies selling you hardware capable of something, but then charging you on top of your ownership to use that something feature.

I will start by saying that I do not have or use FSD. If I did, I would probably subscribe. From what I understand, there are issues around moving your FSD to a new vehicle when you trade in...so you would have to buy it twice, three times? at $8,000 to purchase, you could subscribe to it at $99/month for almost 7 years. If you trade in your car before that, just cancel the subscription on the old car and re-subscribe on the new car...makes sense. Ultimately, its not worth the cost to me either way. I may consider it for $50/month, but I am doubtful that would ever happen.

I get it. At least FSD, we aren’t locked into a contract or having to put up thousands. And unlike most EV companies, at this software is ever evolving and improving. I look at it like this too comparing back to Blue Cruise, at least we aren’t paying for AP.

Well, I DO own a Model 3, and I feel the same. I returned an HP printer last year that required a monthly service plan for the ink in favor of one in which I can use whatever ink I choose, no monthly fee. That's evil fucking behavior and we shouldn't encourage it. But if renting features already in the car you paid for is okay with you, by all means go for it.

How much does personal driver cost that does not rest sleep or eat? I am not protecting Tesla here, and technology is not quite there yet, but it is getting better. There is no way to substitute this functionality other than with other live person. In world of cheap subscription this looks a lot, but if we actually check the value… And considering there are no competitors, this is what we get. I just checked and my fsd use is at around 53% of all the driving. If find it worth the buck and subscription model works well. Especially if car is not going to be with you for 8 years

Part of your “problem is how expensive it is and not worth what nearly what it costs.” If you don’t care for it or use it then it doesn’t have any value to you, that’s fine. But the market place being what it is, it is obviously worth the price to many consumers who use it. Whether it’s buggy whips, widgets or in this case Tesla’s FSD the cost of the product isn’t based on what a few people on Reddit think it should be. It’s worth exactly what willing consumers will pay for it at a given point in time. This is Econ 101 my friend.

People pay $100 a month a cable/streaming services per month and watch what, five channels a few times a week? If you’re truly getting your monies worth and using FSD daily, it’s 100% worth $99/month. People waste so much money on bs but do actually drive daily and commute.

Do they though?

>But if renting features already in the car you paid for is okay with you, by all means go for it.

Take a break, bud. You seem stressed. Your comments just aren't making sense. FSD and all ADAS (and pretty much all software ever) was, is, and will always be licensed. Go touch grass. Maybe read a book about property "ownership" versus property "licensing" and "goods" versus "services".

Nah. You’re being unreasonable. Teslas are already insane value and have come way down in price vs what they used to be, offer longer warranty’s than most others and far more value generally. The fact you can pay for a 1 month subscription then cancel it, makes it far, far cheaper than paying out £6500 for something some might only use a couple of times per year. And no it doesn’t add any meaningful resale value to the car itself.

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Also, this closes the door to people purchasing FSD in a HW3 car to get a HW4 retrofit when it becomes available.

For me since its 2K since I bought the step below. I'm trying to determine if I should buy it. I have the previous generation car and I fear that in an update they will require new hardware.

No, not really.

I circle back to my analogy on cable tv and streaming, we are capable of watching thousands of channels but we only pay for the amount we need and want. Not everyone needs FSD. Nothing is ever free, cost is incorporated somehow.

Honestly it's not that bad. I would get it for 2-3 months during summer where roadytips are more common. Else not a huge need for it

I do use FSD and subscribe to the monthly plan. I also did the math and decided $8,000 didn’t make sense for me. I love that I can turn off my subscription because my Tesla stays parked for about 3 months of the year when I’m out of town.

>But if renting features already in the car you paid for is okay with you, by all means go for it.

i mean, it makes sense, they are updating and developing on it constantly. Would you rather pay a large flat fee and then pay for upgrades? because that's the alternative.

they don't. Maybe in your mind they do, but marketwise they don't.

I did the same thing. I only activate it when I’ll be traveling.

This is my argument against FSD, especially relative to its cost. I took my model 3 on a few long highway road trips, and I didn’t care for using FSD. I didn’t like how/when it decided to do certain things, so I would just use basic AP as glorified cruise control and make my own lane changes when I felt like it. Basically AP is more than good enough, especially for road trips and bumper to bumper traffic.

No, not at all. Neither pass on to the next owner so it's worth zero.

They don't increase the value of the car.

With the rate technology is evolving, paying the equivalent of 8 years of a subscription to “own” FSD makes no sense for me. I’ve had my car for 5 years and it’s already not able to even run the latest build of FSD. Why lock yourself in to hardware that will be outdated before you gained the full value Tesla themselves have given it?

Buy a different car from another manufacturer, it’s that simple. If you can’t/refuse to do so, you will do what Tesla tells you to.

Agreed. Very few companies price their products/services as "cost + a little profit margin". Many firms price them with "what's the best alternative cost" approach.

I used it, was ok I guess. If I would ever really use it I’d only buy it outright. Now that that’s unattainable I will no longer ever consider FSD in anyway. It’s off my radar, might even start looking at other EV brands. I know I’m not alone thinking like this.

i feel worse for the poor guys who bought it back in 2020 or before and they can’t really use it due to hardware limits. They financed the project for Musk and got left out. I didn’t buy but had thought about subscribing once in a while if I was going on a long road trip… but even my hardware 3 is not going to be enough - so eventually we all will be living with obsolete equipment

The one-off purchase price was so high that by the time you’ve spent the same amount on the subscription you’re thinking about changing cars anyway Plus you can turn the subscription on and off as you please which is great.i have a work car, tesla will be for weekends only, so I’ll only turn on FSD if I’m off work for a bit. You also don’t have to worry about your $10k leaving with the car if you have to sell or it gets written off. The only thing this really affects is people who were rolling the FSD purchase into their financing when they bought the car (even then that means you were paying interest on FSD which is even worse)

This is probably true

Only thing I’ll say as a Tesla owner and shareholder is I am damn glad you have nothing to do with running Tesla or its profitability.

Ok

My best guess is that by moving to sub only, Tesla gets rid of the problem of needing to upgrade FSD owner’s older computers to new HW versions. They can have different sub levels for old/new versions, and different feature levels.

This⬆️ To the clueless people.

And then Musk will say no more transfers. No way I would buy it.

Why are you complaining when you don't even like FSD?

Bate and switch.  These cars were sold with a one time payment as an option, now taking that option away after the sale. Can't do that

I have had my current car 15 years and plan to have the next just as long. FSD would cost twice as much in that time using a subscription.  Who owns the car now?

>It’s worth exactly what willing consumers will pay for it at a given point in time. Almost no one pays for it though. The rate of FSD purchase is something like 15%. If no one really buys the product then either it's a bad product or the price is off, or both/some combo. Doesn't Tesla have a goal of 20MM vehicles sold, with 10MM FSD purchases - 50%. They are no where near that. Either it does not work, or the price is off, or some combo of that based on what Tesla expects.

People say it takes 7 years to pay for itself. That seems quick to me when I had my car 15 years. So by the end of my time with the car FSD would be less than half the cost with an outright purchase vs subscribing the entire time.  If I have to subscribe, I simply won't and only do it if I have a big trip or something. Means Tesla loses out on money.  This change is dumb all round

I have had my car 15 years. An outright purchase of FSD would be half the cost of a subscription.

If I outright buy it, I'd use it all the time. Of I have to subscribe, I might do kt once a year for a big trip.  Either way value is lost for both sides. This is dumb to not let us chose and its a bate and switch to take it away when we were sold the car saying we could buy it.

So, you rent a house? Never want to own one?

They will have to offer retrofits to meet what they said when it first came out.

That suites you, not everyone is like you.

Its a bate and switch and there are penalties for that.

Had my car 15 years. Outright purchase is for me. Half the cost of a subscription.  If I have to subscribe, I simply will avoid it. I dont drive enough to justify it. Now both Tesla and I lose.

You own the car, along with its 15 year old tech. IF you truly care about FSD, then you would be buying a newer car much sooner.

I bought FSD 6 years ago for $5k and just transferred it to my new M3 for free. Love using it and it has certainly been cost effective for me.

I doubt it. "This car has everything to to do robotaxi etc" just because they won't tell it to you doesn't change their obligations to make your car drive itself without a human.

I prefer the subscription. If you buy it then you’d have no reasonable expectation of free updates.

Tesla may not offer more for a trade in, but a used car with FSD included is surely more valuable than a used car without FSD. Would you pay the same for both vehicles?

They’re not taking it away from the existing cars that made the one time purchase. This isn’t a bate and switch.

Buying FSD was stupid in the first place

"Part of my problem with FSD is how expensive it is and how it’s not worth nearly what it costs. " So why are you complaining? You ever take Econ 101? Supply/Demand determines prices.

Wonder what that means for legacy owners who want to transfer still in the future.

If you’ve already purchased it then you’re not going to lose it because of this announcement but holding onto an EV for 15 years so far makes you the exception not the rule, you’re part of a small group of people that won’t have their preferred option for their next purchase For most people the $10k upfront is not the smart move financially For the unlucky people the car gets destroyed a few years in and Tesla doesn’t let you transfer FSD to another vehicle

You didn’t own it before

I dislike subscriptions as much as the next person, but this isn't like buying a fridge. FSD is literally a team that is working day in/out on a piece of software that changes week to week. So, it does seem to put a finite price on something like that.

Easy, don’t subscribe, it sucks anyway 😆

I think most forget that break even is 7 years, at the current monthly pricing model, but that’s not stable or guaranteed. It’s the boiling of the frog in Subscription as a Service, and I am old man yelling at the clouds in frustration about SaS products.

I don't think a subscription model is such a strange idea for software, this is very common. It needs continue maintenance and updating. If you want to be angry about something look at German brands like BMW and Mercedes that put heated seats and other hardware behind a subscription.

Break even could be 8 years...they will be offering a $999/year option.

I could almost see subscribing to it for a month if I were vacationing somewhere locally within the US (and driving). Most of our trips are international though, so I am not taking my car with me anyhow.

No idea what the purchase rate is or what the subscription rate is. My point is with this or any product pricing is a function of many factors, profitability being chief among them. What you or I or even the majority on this sub think it should be priced is at most a minor business consideration for Tesla (or any company). The marketplace decides. And right now that’s $99 month or 8K lifetime which looks to be going away. Not to say it won’t change, get cheaper or maybe costlier in the future.

I suspect they have some sort of model that says at that price more will take it up monthly. I imagine most are put off by the large upfront cost.

I think we should probably turn it upside down and think about this: How many FSD-worth miles do you drive a month/year to make FSD subscription worthwhile? Probably very few unless you are in a specific group of people (like where driving is part of your work). What I will expect to happen is that this is either: \- “Threat” to make more people buy right now, and will be backpedaled again \- Will be a subscription for a while, then they will see that not enough people jumps on the subscription, and they will eventually backpedal again to allow it to be bought. Just like you’ve seen with the transfer of FSD between vehicles.

Not just that, how many people bought HW3 cars thinking the same thing, and now the current version of FSD has passed them by? What will happen to HW4 owners buying new today when HW5 comes out?

My point was buying a car of today (or the last few years) and keeping it 15 years.  If they say a car today will be abke to do it. I expect to hold then to that agreement and not make me buy a new car. I dont like the new designs and want a 2023 model. Age of the car doesn't matter when the point was they said 2018 cars could do it. Its just a computer that needs to be swapped out. Not hard, they do it all the time they just need a compatable module.

Comparable module if need be but realistically probably won't once they hit it.

I never said I'd lose it.  I'm looking st getting a 2023 model. When new, or even yesterday that car could buy FSD outright. Tesla is taking something away, changing the contract after the fact. That's a bate and switch.

The door was almost certainly already closed. The free retrofit will almost certainly be only for original owners who bought FSD with purchase.

While that is very true for you, you are a more extreme case, as most people do now own a car 15 years. A lot of people lease. Average car ownership is about 8 years. Hell, average age of a car on the road is 13 years.

The percentage of Tesla owners with FSD is astronomically low I don’t remember ever meeting a single Tesla owner who has FSD, whether bought outright or subscribed. Hell, my father in law didn’t even know the used model 3 he bought had FSD until I showed him, and after I showed him, he just asked me how to turn it off because he didn’t care for it. Basic AP just glorified radar cruise control with lane keep assist, but it’s free and works better than pretty much every other company’s rendition of modern cruise control, and its’s good enough for most people

A HW4 retrofit is not happening. This is just a move to fully commit to the subscription model and raise prices over time and not have to worry about supporting end of life hardware. When HW4 becomes obsolete and Tesla stops active support, owners will be on the hook for upgrade costs to HW5 if they even provide a path for that Buying FSD stopped making sense once the subscription dropped years ago.

I wonder if this has more to do with possibly being sued to get HW3 upgraded with new hardware to make FSD work at the promised level. I bet if it’s a sub, I won’t be able to get a HW4 upgrade as part of a settlement. But I’m fine with a sub that allows me to turn on off based on my needs. I’ll likely need a new car anyways. (2020 M3)

It was approaching 15k for a while (or maybe was don’t recall) and the locking to a car was rude at best Personally, I tried it with a free month and I wasn’t impressed and so this doesn’t bother one way or the other. I just feel bad for folks who paid big money.

Which are? Terms of service cannot change?

It sucks, but that's not a Tesla-exclusive thing. Subscription services in cars has been a thing for a while now, and it likely isn't going anywhere. I used FSD during the free trial, and it tried to turn left on a 4-way intersection when I didn't have the right of way. I'm sure that was just a freak accident, but that soured me from using it more. Though I did like using Autopark, but not enough to warrant paying money for it.

So someone looking for a used self driving Tesla wouldn’t care if one car costs $0 a month vs. one that costs $99 a month?

Ok. So you don’t know anyone who uses FSD? That means what? You don’t have to use it or like it or think it’s worth anything. Those things are your prerogative as a consumer. Since you’re not the target consumer for this product, what difference does it make to you about the price someone else is willing to pay for it? I’m not a FSD zealot but I do use it—a lot. I have a seasonal job with a 170 mile daily commute, most of it in the freeway. For the 6 months I subscribe to FSD I find it very valuable, for me it has worked nearly flawlessly. In my situation the subscription for half the year or so works well. Others may not have the same positive experience that I do and that’s ok—no one is making anyone use it, buy it, or subscribe to it. That’s the beauty of a Free Market.

I wouldn't be in favor of the subscription if they didn't offer constant updates. At this point, HW3 FSD should either be at an extreme discount or free. I'll gladly pay $20 to $50 a month for my HW4 updates. $100 is tough.

It’s great for road trips, but I work remote so it doesn’t make sense day to day.

This is an indication that current FSD owners who paid the $8000 will not be able to transfer to a new vehicle. Just watch

I just cancelled my subscription. I'd be willing to pay 5 bucks a month for the FSD hud, but the FSD product itself isn't worth it.

A hw4 retrofit is coming, they just added the ability to tell a hw3 car that it has a hw4 computer installed in it in Tesla toolbox. They aren't going to add the ability to do that if they don't intend to use it.

Cant wait for the price increase when it comes out of "beta"

Using FSD in my Dallas commute sucks, I have to take over all the time as it does not understand how to move over to the right for heavily congested areas. I didn’t buy a Tesla because of the FSD although it would be nice if it actually worked, I bought it to reduce costs. AI4 can’t handle FSD anyways, so who cares. I’ll keep driving myself like I’ve done for 20 years before and I prefer autopilot as I can manage the speed more effectively.

I want a daily rate. I'd pay $5-$10 to use it on occasion, but I can't justify $100 per month. Autopilot does what I need 99% of the time. I will say, though, my loaner yesterday had FSD active and not having to touch the wheel to avoid the nags was pretty, pretty, pretty good.

That shit should be free with every Tesla. The more users they have the better it can become. Or if you have to charge for it, make it 49.99/mo no one would bat an eye.

They made that decision before they decided to switch to subscription only. The path of current previous HW owners to upgrade to the current HW is closed This was always a flaw in the idea that you buy a car once and you have a new car every year with software updates, because there will inevitably be hardware upgrades that make previous hardware and software obsolete If HW3 owners can retrofit to HW4, will they be able to retrofit HW5 when it comes out? This move to subscription only is so that people don’t keep their current cars and upgrade to the newest version every handful of years, a departure of their idea that you can buy once and be set for the operating life of the car thanks to software upgrades.

Possibly, but they never clarified, so that we knew for sure, but this will guarantee it.

Depends. Do you plan on owning the car for another 2 years, and also plan on having FSD the entire time? If so, then I would buy it, since it will only take 20 months of FSD subscription to break even, while arguably adding a little bit of value to its resale, and the small possiblity of transfer. Nothing to lose at that point.

How great is it though? I only have autopilot and feel like I have to be constantly touching the wheel or scrolling the volume up and down to keep it going. Even when I have both hands on the wheel it doesn't sense the "pressure". I'm hesitant to pay for FSD for this very reason

I got a trial of v14 in December... and it's damn good on HW4

History’s first trillionaire autocrat has a standard of living to maintain. Being a Tesla owner in 2026 is definitely a choice.

I remember having to intervene at least once on every single time I used it. I much preferred to keep overall control and let basic AP do the mundane tasks of keeping my speed/distance/lane I can definitely see it getting better, but I didn’t like using it as it was. I didn’t mention it in my post but I had a HW4 model 3 and used V12 an V13, I never got to use V14

To your point, Rivian's subscription is 1/2 the price, I think? As someone who purchased FSD 7 years ago and now finds that my car can't even support the latest version... not happy! And this continual goalpost moving.... I've never seen someone publically be so wrong so repeatedly.

Software as a service (SAAS). Nothing new here.

The more I played around FSD the more I only really care about auto steer. I'm on the freeway for 70 miles before the next exit? Autosteer for me please. Oh, I'm in stop and go traffic. Let me autosteer. Yes I understand that we have to pay attention to stop signs in red lights, but that's okay.

I'm wondering if the subscription model will come to the UK. Currently, it's only available as an outright purchase. I own a 4 year old M3P and wouldn't pay for it. I just don't keep my cars long enough. However, if EAP was available as a sub, I might buy it. The self parking was cool when I had a loaner from Tesla.

If you buy a computer do you expect it comes with every application for free?

I do use autopilot a bit when I am traveling for work. As you said, I still typically have to keep my hand on the wheel, but it handles everything else "mostly" ok. There is one point if I am coming home from up north where two freeways merge together. For whatever reason, autopilot will all but lock up the brakes right at the merge (just keeping to my lane). It does not do this if I am just using the adaptive cruise control. Its happened enough times that I now know when to disable it and when I am safe to re-enable it.

Yeah, I'm hoping this gives them more flexibility to actually lower the cost. Yes I said lower. As it stands now the $8k is a ripoff vs monthly and that only gets worse if they lower the subs price. I think they did the math and realized they are more profitable owth a lower monthly cost and more subscribers but then they have to contend with the people who already paid top dollar to "own" it.

u/Mysterious-Maize307 If I had gold, I'd give it to you.

After having FSD v14 for a month and it doing 94% of my 2000 miles, I have gone back to autopilot and I'm shocked at how bad autopilot is. It really is bad compared to FSD

When have they ever said that? And who promised you updated tech would work in your old ass car? No one, that's who. If you want a car that has the latest tech, lease every 2-3 years or accept the fact that your car will not be able to handle the updates years down the road. The complainers on here are stuck thinking of cars as being the same as they were 50 years ago...mechanical objects that could be maintained and enjoyed for decades. That simply is NOT what Teslas are and one should know that before buying. It doesn't mean you can't enjoyt it for years and years to come, just don't expect the latest tech updates to work. That's what makes them so awesome and popular! They're NOT the old model of a car...they've flipped the script! No different than smart phones or any other tech...it's a tech product wrapped up in the form of a vehicle.

How may people paid 15k for really bad V11 on HW3?

The cost of it will substantially increase per month specially when full autonomy is solved. It will make the full price of FSD today sound like a bargain. I find it unfortunately that it is going this way.

Exactly, no one is forcing anyone to buy this luxury elastic good. Speak with your wallets. If enough people don't buy it, they will lower it, or reconsider if it's worth pouring resources into FSD. The market will figure out it's price. It's Econ 101 exactly as you said.

Well you didn’t have a HW3 or 4 15 years either. Even people who paid for FSD with HW3 are not getting updates. So that just seems like a bad deal. It’s like if Apple sold an iPhone 3 with lifetime subscription to iCloud but can only be used on that phone. If anything they should have tier pricing and charge less for vehicles that have less functionality due to hardware limitations instead of charging the same all across all vehicles regardless oh hardware version.

I also use it - a LOT! Like, every single drive, everywhere. It is worth way more than they charge for it. IMO I'd like everyone to remember what Elon said a long while back, about how FSD would be way more expensive than $6k or $8k or $15k when it's actually done. I can totally see that. And them stopping the sale of it, is the start of that. You aren’t getting a chauffeur with OEM accountability for $100/month for $8k. Even Uber/Lyft won't sell you that and you have to wait for them to come get you. Your Tesla chauffeur will be sitting in the driveway or where ever at your beck and call, ready to take you where ever, whenever. If you don't think that is worth more than $100/month then you clearly aren't the target consumer.

$8000 to buy a feature outright for a specific vehicle doesn’t make sense. If that price means I can use it on any Tesla I already own or will purchase in the future, then it night be worth considering.

I would have bought fsd if it transferred with my account. Doesn’t seem worth it otherwise

V14 is great compared to v13. On 14 it will go on a hands free mode where you just have to pay attention to the road and it will not require you to occasionally tug on the steering wheel. Less stressful and nag free. I will definitely subscribe to it when i go on a long road trip.

There are rumors, and they are just that, rumors, circling that unsupervised FSD will be offered at a higher price tag for a monthly / yearly payment plan. Not advocating for any of this but this could be getting more expensive as this change goes into place.

A taxi costs at least like $2/mile. So how is a full time chauffeur for $100/month “expensive” and “not worth what it costs”?

This will probably last a year, then FSD use will be charged per mile, through the Robotaxi app.

I subscribe to FSD and use it all the time. Its awesome. Compared to an $8000 purchase price it's a no brainer to subscribe instead. The breakeven point is 8 plus years (if you account for interest).

Elon has been selling a partially functioning FSD for a decade for $8K. if it ever turns out he has a fully functioning FSD you would expect him to double that sales price and/or lease price but leasing it gives him monthly payments from anyone "ubering" an unmanned Tesla.

Watched an NVIDIA based Mercedes version and it looked pretty good. It is also backed up by non-camera sensors.

I’m not upset at this, yes the option would be nice but I buy a Tesla for what it is not because it can drive itself, and it would take over 6 years to recuperate the 8k loss, and idk if I’d even keep the car that long

Growing pains of shoving advanced computer vision, processing, and control technology stacks into something as common as a car. We have a fully owned FSD seat in our HW3 MX and have had it since before subscriptions were a thing. Reality is that FSD will always be a moving target and need updates - subscription makes more sense. I would rather them continue to improve it than lump sum into something they aren't incentivized to update. Hopefully one day "FSD" is a standard feature of the commuter car - Tesla is certainly leading the way and it's by no means a cheap endeavor for them.

They need to offer weekly subscriptions. I never travel more than a week, two at the most, and the rest of the $99 is total waste. Mostly, I just don't bother. If I could do 2 weeks for, say, $60, or a week for $40, I'd be way more likely to spend the money. I think they'd make way more money that way, and the customers would be happier.

Yep! They had several interventions in the video I watched, but right now I think they are ahead of everyone other than Tesla, and perhaps some of the Chinese systems (which Tesla also beats).

Anything can happen, a good competitor can arrive and Tesla cut the subscription by 50%. Or not and they could raise the price. In my case a subscription is the best as I only drive for holidays. Anyway I am in Europe so FSD IS not yet available for me

Waymo is now in my city. Tesla is not.

I bought it when it was cheaper ($5k) and won’t be buying another Tesla unless it transfers over. I paid for it and still don’t have my autonomous driving.

Tesla pays for free hardware upgrades or forces a 3 year FSD subscription period on getting a free hardware upgrade. The later sounds like every cell phone in existence.

I have been subscribing since it was first available as a subscription. This was always the way it was going to end up. When the liability shift happens and we are able to be truly "eyes off", Tesla needs recurring revenue to cover the insurance cost of that feature. As far as price increases, competition is what will keep the price down. Other brands are getting closer, though none are quite at parity. Some are much cheaper, Rivian for example is $50/month. There will eventually be a race to the bottom. >A software feature of a hardware product they sell should not be a profit generating entity for a company. This is silly. The hardware was the easy part. The software requires constant tuning and tweaking. Like I mentioned above, there will also be some kind of insurance cost on the backend so if/when they get sued because a car on FSD crashes itself, they will be covered. That might be a self insurance fund, that might be through a third party, it might even be via negotiations with your car insurance. Whatever it is, there will be a cost.

If you can’t transfer it, it’s effectively a subscription now.

Subscription was the best way to get FSD anyway. $100/mo and you can pause whenever you’re away or just cancel if you switch to a new vehicle, etc. $8,000 to have it unlocked for as long as you (the original purchaser) has the vehicle, was a bad choice for just about everyone, unless you were planning to keep your vehicle for 10+ years. I also find it ironic that in your post you say you don’t use FSD or care for it, and also that it’s not worth what it costs, but them also go on to say “it’s BS how you have to pay a subscription to access a ‘very important’ feature of the car. So…is it not worth what it costs and completely unnecessary, or is it very important? Edit: Just to add, I could be wrong about that ‘original purchaser’ bit…maybe it stays with the vehicle even if you sell it? But I just recall seeing stories of people buying a Tesla that previously had FSD unlocked, but finding that the Tesla Service Center had deactivated it before they sold the car. Maybe that is only the case with vehicles that get sold back to Tesla first, and not cars that get sold private party or through another dealership, etc.

I used FSD for a month free trial a year ago and am currently using my last few days of its free trial and I would say it is only now that it is at a level worthy of the name FSD. It is still in no way capable of being a driver-less Taxi until it can find a parking spot every time. Once it is capable of actually being a taxi Elon will be wanting a monthly piece of that capability.

I don’t think a lot of people think it’s worth it to have a “chauffeur” even if it’s much cheaper than an actual driver

FSD is amazing! It's something my wife uses daily and I use every time I get in her car. The idea of not having as a one time fee is a huge turn off. May change my view on buying a Tesla as my next car.

Not everyone cares that deeply about FSD. If everything else were equal, I'd choose the car with FSD, but everything else would actually have to be equal - mileage, condition, etc. I'm not going to take a lesser car at the same price just so I can play with FSD.

I bought it when it was 2k and have been waiting for it to work for years. Still waiting… I wouldn’t subscribe to it because it’s still flaky and doesn’t work. I tried the Tesla taxi to compare it to Waymo and we circle the parking lot destination until I got bored and stopped the ride. Waymo is better. If we are going subscription based I would not pick Tesla right now but I might be bitter having waited so long for fsd and have him ditch it on older cars like mine. If it’s subscription why buy a car?

I wish they had a one day subscription for like $10. I would take that for my once a quarter trip to California from Arizona. Don’t need it permanently or even per month.

FSD should come with the purchase of the car. The car itself is already crazy overpriced, but having to purchase the tech and pay monthly to use said tech is crazy. Purchasing FSD outright regardless of how long you plan to keep the car is also crazy because if anything happens to your car before the 7 years is out that prevents FSD from functioning from a bad camera to complete loss of vehicle compiles your instant loss in cash. Put that money in the market and if you must have FSD, let Elon take you to pound town.

So sounds like my locked-in hw4 car will jump in value around 00:00:01 after the chocolate heart wrappers are cleaned up n the roses are in their new pots?

that very specific person obviously would yes, but market value of the car no. Just like any accessory on a car doesn't change the blue book value, it just makes it enticing to a very specific person, which you have to hope to snag and that person will negotiate down anyway because those things do not add value to the car.

If Tesla charged every owner $15 on the sale of the car, and gave it 'free', they would have the same income from FSD they have now.

I only bought it bc it was the only way at the time to get a non-gray m3p while keeping the tax credit. If they get rid of fsd transfer promos, I don’t see myself ever upgrading.

Then it is in the consumer's interest to have a subscription model.

Autopilot isn’t even in the same realm as FSD.

This works for me. Since being available I have paid for 2 months in total. Once to try it and again when I went on a road trip. I would only consider a permanent subscription if prices drop significantly, otherwise, paying for it on a need by need basis works well for me.

That’s possible, but the converse could be true too. My STARLINK roam package went from 50mb to 100 mb for the same price.

It is amazing. You do need to supervise it though. Somethings really drive me nuts. I wish there was a option for California stops. I’m tired of the full stops at every single stop sign but you can give it a little gas and it will move on. I use it every day on my 20 minute commute and it’s really great for road trips. I’m up to using it 90% of the time right now.

Good thing I already own it then 😎

Buy a used well maintained one owner highly depreciated Tesla with full self driving. Problem solved 👍

Honestly, that sounds like the biggest win to subscription over owning, you can't control what the other idiot on the roads is going to do and it would suck to just see $8,000 go to waste because you could not salvage the program and transfer it.

I bought it outright when I got my M3P, so a non-issue for me. Early Birds and all...

no literally 💀

I used FSD and I subscribe it. I consider it the cost of an on-call personal chauffeur. If you think it that way, the 99$/m cost is not expensive at all. I do agree if the software is sold as-is, they shouldn’t make it a subscription. On the other hand, It is not a bad service business model if I am just buying a service that is continuously maintained and upgraded.

What an Edgy Title. The majority of People just Subscribe anyway because it makes more sense.

It is entirely logical for Elon Musk to transition the Full Self-Driving (FSD) feature to a subscription model. Other manufacturers are making significant advancements, and while the FSD was valued at $8,000 in 2020, its current status, although still the best in its class, is no longer the sole option available. Furthermore, even early adopters have found limited use for it. Additionally, there remains uncertainty regarding its availability in Europe, which complicates matters further. In conclusion, a subscription model is a prudent approach to maintain revenue, as any income is preferable to none. The outright purchase of FSD, in my opinion, is insufficient, especially with competitors emerging and providing alternative solutions. The risk is that consumer interest may wane, leading to a decline in Tesla's market appeal.

If you have car A which you can go to sleep in while it drives you to a destination 300 miles away or take your kids to baseballl practice by themselves vs car B which can't. Which one is worth more? How much more?

The difference is that Tesla's system ostensibly can be used absolutely anywhere, whereas Waymo is extremely modular. Tesla is doing a somewhat modular approach in the cities where it's active, however... Testing and retesting and looking for edge cases within the geofences.

As long as they continue to invest in the tech, and it improves on a regular basis, I think it’s a little more logical to pay a subscription as well. I’m paying for ongoing improvement as much as the service. I shouldn’t have to buy it up front in addition, that parts kinda dumb, especially because the hardware is on the car whether I pay or not.

I'd feel pretty shitty. At least up until I can order a $5 robotaxi at the airport and never have to worry about driving or drivers again... then in retrospect it wouldn't be so bad

Having to pay $8k to access features that your car already has isn’t an example of real ownership. This isn’t much of a change.

you can move it 1 time with out having to rebuy. just did it myself

I think that your example kinda proves the point, though $99/mo when a car lasts maybe 12-15+ years means Tesla get $14-18k+ per car instead of $8k (regardless of how long people keep their car for). This is before we consider the price that the $8k is fixed today whereas the $99/mo will definitely go up over time (how much are you paying for Netflix today vs when you first got it?) Sure, the subscription is better for people who replace their car more often than 7 years, but it’s much worse for people who buy a car and run it into the ground The obvious and reasonable conclusion is that the best option for the customer is to **offer both** because that way the customer can choose the appropriate approach for them, whereas the best option for the company is to only offer subscriptions because that makes most profit Therefore, they’ve chosen to put profits ahead of customers. That’s the only way to interpret this change, because a customer-first approach would mean you offer both and let the customer choose which is appropriate for them Tesla is a private profit-driven company, they’re allowed to chase profits - but from the perspective of this discussion, it’s definitely profit chasing and I think it’s right to call it out

Cool

When will FSD park the car on it’s own? And I mean I arrive at a restaurant, get off the car in front of the restaurant and let the car park itself, and once I finished my meal, go out and have the car waiting for me

That's okay. Rivian will be selling their version of FSD, "Autonomy+" for $2500 or $50/month. That R2 is looking good. (And I do own a Model 3 with purchased FSD)

I like FSD for road trips and so I actually like the ability to turn it on and off. I don’t really like it for my daily driving. To heck with that $8k thing.

I did the math also, I don’t keep a car long enough to justify the up front cost. I’ve been paying $99 for a couple years now.

As someone leasing sounds great to me.

The “California stops”, rolling stops, used to be in the system as an option. NHSTA raised hell and it was removed

Watch the sales promos There’s a few windows each year where FSD transfer is part of the deal

It’s was stated by Musk on an earnings call that anyone who outright bought FSD on a V3 car would be upgraded to support FSD V14 and above. I have my fingers crossed that the company decides its to expensive to develop and offers a replacement car instead 😁

It’s more than the computer. HW4 is computer, cameras and architecture/ wiring.

The wiring is the same except for power and its really not that hard to make a module that works within the older cars limits. If you haven't noticed, computers have gotten more powerful using less energy over time. Even with something as simple as a new manufacturing process.  So pop out the computer and cameras then.

I was planning on getting a model 3in the next year or 2. Now I’m not interested at all.

Tesla is known to use the fear factor with their products to bump sales. They didn’t sell enough cars in q4 so they have to compensate somehow Fsd is overrated and over priced- I have used both hw3 and 4 on my teslas as part of free trials and won’t ever spend $99 per month on this crap. Financial sensible person will drive a car and use that $99 to pay off their credit card debt or if I dare to say go a step further and save ?

Lol. So he’ll sell even fewer subscriptions and never get his money.

Time to switch to Comma. The software itself is open source, the hardware is buy once cry once at $1000 new.

Considering the current low take rate for FSD, it will be a long time before Tesla will effectively monetize FSD, especially if they raise the price. Also, don't forget about the large cohort of HW3 who have been abandoned. They are not good candidates for a subscription service

Lol. Sounds like you are not an engineer. It is not nearly as easy as that. You can swap out a computer because the designs are standardized, which makes sense when you sell 100s of millions of something, not for a car you sell low millions of. It would be mighty expensive and potentially impractical to upgrade from HW3 to HWx.

Waymo doesn’t go to half of the South Bay despite their parent company being headquartered there.

How are they supposed to have created the technology to get this far and improve it without funding? Im sorry, but i can’t follow your logic here. You could say the same about many tech improvements and if the funding isn’t there it generally stops improving. If FSD isn’t worth the cost for you thats fine but I for one think paying $100/mo for the closest thing to a digital chauffeur is still cheap for how advanced it is.

Sorry, what I was referring to was the data architecture and wiring associated wiring is completely different on HW4

Go to your local Tesla and give it a test drive. Just did one on Sunday and holy crap it’s really good. When I got a trial on my HW3 M3P, it was like a teenager learning how to drive. Now it’s a lot better/smoother.

I just transferred the FSD from my M3 to the Model Y. It was a pretty good deal, and whoever already owns the FSD doesn’t have any problem.

You would trust FSD to drive you around an area you’re not instead of a local area you do?

It’s really not that great and definitely not worth the full price to buy it. It constantly slows down below 85 if you set it there whereas autopilot will hold it there. It leaves way more distance than autopilot and living in Chicago, that means people are cutting in your lane the whole time. I shut it off and leave it in autopilot unless I’m going on a long trip on the highway. Summons is a fucking joke too. It only works for a very short distance and by the time you pull your phone out and walk close enough to use it, you could have walked back and forth to your car 3 times. You look like a dip shit too when it stops for no reason and you just have to walk to your car anyway

Its litterely not. Same cables, you can swap them out on both ends but sure, you can't use HW3 cameras on HW4. You need to change them.  Even if they wernt the same, Tesla doesn't need the parts to be universal. You think model 3 and S use identical modules? No they are slightly different for each model and its fine. Its not like we need to swap them between.

I’ve owned an AI3 M3 and AI4 M3 and absolutely love FSD on AI4. There is no way I can go without it. I currently pay the subscription but will be buying it outright this month. Yes, it can be expensive for some people. It may not make sense to others. For me, it is a luxury and peace of mind knowing I own it and have the potential to avoid price fluctuations. Honestly, once Robotaxi is at scale, it will be cheaper to use autonomous services than to own a car. There are pros and cons. Nonetheless, I’m happy we are even having this discussion; it means we are progressing with technology, and I cannot wait for what the future holds.

Nobody is paying the $8000. The monthly plan is even hard to swallow from time to time $99 a month and you may use it a few days even if you use it fairly regularly that’s still not every day. They should go to a five dollars a day or six dollars a day type usage plan. I think they would get a bunch more folks using it if they didn’t have to commit to a full month, I think they’re just shooting herself in the foot with this stuff. Something like the five or six dollars a day is twice that of the $99 a month if you break it down yet I can swallow five dollars or six dollars if I wanted to use it for the day.

This will happen sooner than later.

It's a better value to sub, if the price stays at 99. I would not keep a Tesla for 7 years with the current rate of improvements. Heck, i might just lease a Tesla and flip cars every 3 years, and still come out ahead even WITH FSD sub. The fact that you can activate it only when you plan to use it makes it even better

This is a way better model. Since every Tesla comes with the hardware already, buying fsd is just a software license. And paying $8000 up front for something that costs $1200 a year on license means it takes a long time to recoup the up front cost, longer than most people would have the car.

I bought FSD *Unsupervised* with my Model 3 in 2019 for an extra $6K. I’m still waiting on Tesla to deliver the feature I purchased with the car. I certainly would not buy FSD *Supervised* on a new Tesla, simply because I’ve been bamboozled for 6 years and counting for vaporware they probably won’t release for the life of my existing car.

Reminds me of when Microsoft moved to subscriptions for Office. It comes out to about the same cost as buying upgrades to stay current and secure, and now it’s forecasted predictably - you’re likely going to pay it either way if brings you value. ‘But I don’t use Word or any of the Office apps!’ Then don’t buy it. “But all those poor people that have to buy this critical, super important software that I don’t care to use because it isn’t that important.” 🤷🏼‍♂️ If you worked for Tesla and had the power to do it, what specific price would you make FSD?

This is going to be the new should I buy a Tesla convo. Subscription is great if you replace your car every 5 years or less. If you’re a person who holds onto a car till you need another one this is bad.

Question, does this include the Luxe Package on the model S/X? You essentially pay $10k extra and get FSD, free supercharging, and lifetime premium connectivity. It’s baked into the price of the car so would that mean it’s still going to be available as a purchase on Model S/X?

I have electronic certifications and have spent way too long in IT. I know my way around what can and can't be done.  If only Tesla built the cost of upgrads into it. Oh wait, they did. What was the entire point.

I bought my Tesla model Y primarily because of the FSD functionality. Secondly, because it was electric the FSD motion works great for me. The car maneuvers near perfectly and handles work areas better than I could. I'm not found a situation where my Tesla's FSD is unable to maneuver properly. I will say that sometimes the car will think there's a hole in the road and will be around it with an actual quality, it's a dart patched spot in the road. At least the car does so safely. I love my Tesla's self driving function. I do not keep my hands on the wheel, but I have my hands in my lap ready to take over if need be when I like is that I don't have to think about where I'm going to turn next, I just put the directions in sit back and enjoy the ride 71 years old in this feature is a near room come true as far driving goes.

I subscribe some months to FSD and I love it. I personally won’t buy it because if there is a a transfer deal and my car gets destroyed then I’m left with nothing. While I don’t love this change, I am okay with subscribing about 6 months of the year and would even consider longer if they offered a package deal for longer. As long as it stays affordable and doesn’t increase, I’ll be pretty satisfied. I really enjoy it for road trips and highway/freeway driving.

My problem with the outright purchase of FSD has always been the fact that it’s tied to the vehicles VIN and not your personal account. The value proposition was already terrible, taking almost 7 years to break even. Locking it to one VIN with no guarantee of future transfer is absurd.

Let me start this by saying, like many others here, I seldom use FSD even when they give out the free month trial.... But, considering the fact that the majority of the time, if you were to buy a NEW Tesla, you couldn't transfer your purchase of FSD to the new one... I'd say the subscription model makes more sense. That, and the fact that it takes like 7 years and a few months of subscribing to make up the cost of buying it outright, and you at least have the option to cancel if you're not using it and save even more money...

You’re comparing apples and oranges. Try an FSD subscription for a month and see what you think.

Hey, Sparky, the term is “bait” and switch. And even spelled properly, it doesn’t apply.

Ever been in a Tesla?

Smells like troll spirit.

Good news is you don’t have to pay it.

And the best one.

I did not mean to be so disrespectful. I apologize for that. I am making a subtle point: Tesla engineers currently do not have the chops to build current cars for future requirements. Designing an effective power envelope and form factor would allow seamless upgrade from HWx to HWy. However, I envision overworked engineers who have to design for today because the company is focused on now. It is hard to design effectively under those conditions. Guess what? Companies like Apple, Nvidia (which turns the crank probably faster than any tech company in history), and Toyota do this all the time. Given Tesla's notorious turnover they may never reach this point. (As an aside, if you want to witness good engineering, look no further than the Mars rover and Voyager.)

Except Americans are holding onto cars for more than 2-3 years. Car owners have a different mentality than phone owners. Cars are not considered disposal items in America. Not sure Tesla is capable of changing that mindset. Hence the complaining. My focus is on shortsighted engineering, which Tesla exemplifies. Even though I have held onto cars for a long time, I bought Tesla to observe their engineering. I will probably buy new EVs as often as I buy new phones.

This only makes sense. No more, I paid $XXX when will I get my promised feature, or you promised FSD could do XXX on my car, so I should get a free hardware upgrade. You pay for one month, you don't like it, it doesn't work on your car... you don't continue. Thus ends people complaining about being left behind with old hardware and not getting the FSD they thought it would become. Now there are those who already own FSD but at least there won't be any more.

Again...you are saying "cars" as if they are all created equal and utilized the same way. Teslas are different, and popular for that reason, and people purchasing them need to get out of the typical "when I buy a car it should be relevant and work the same for 5 years" mentality. If you don't, you will always be disappointed. BTW...people STILL complain about their phones being out of date after 2-5 years for the same reasons...and the old "planned obsolescence" excuse/complaint. Tech changes fast...and that can be a good thing. The only valid complaint is if Tesla promised that hardware COULD or CAN be updated fairly easily...and outside of Musk's random Tweets (not sure that counts), I'm not sure any buyer's agreement or that kind of statement is in writing anywhere.

2019 bought with FSD, and I would like to know what they will do for us…

Few Tesla owners buy FSD right now so clearly Tesla management has not yet figured out how to effectively monetize FSD. ECON 403 -- gauge user opinions on social media.

What market? Out of the hundreds of millions of cars on the road, few cars are even equipped with ADAS. Of all the cars Tesla has sold the FSD take rate is reported to be less than 1/8. That includes HW4 and HW3. Now there are at least a dozen companies developing ADAS0including other car companies. And some of them have a stronger brand presence than Tesla. Lastly, the major innovations are probably in China and not the United States. So I ask again: what market?

So, what is he target market? If current Tesla owners are not the target market I am confused. Your comment about free markets is dead on. Just ask Motorola, Blackberry, Nokia, Intel. If Tesla management does not develop a market focus, we will be adding Tesla to this list. Trust me: Nvidia understands it's markets. It is not a mystery to their customers what markets they serve.

Make the subscription 200$ so i can realise the return on purchasing 2026 launch sooner 🧠

America is largely a suburban country. How big is the suburban market size for chauffer-on-demand and how is that different than an occasional Uber/Lyft? Also, how many Tesla drivers enjoy driving and are not interested in a chauffeur?

I am willing to bet the cohort of S, X, CT owners, who have very high FSD take rates never thought about the extra 8k for FSD. If 8k is a challenge for someone buying a car 80k+ they might consider a 3 or Y. These folks never qualified for the federal tax credit in the first place. BTW, the TAM of the ADAS market would greatly increase if ADAS was focused on the <30k cohort. That is market for the Model 2. Oops! Tesla gave up on the Model 2.

I am clearly not in this cohort. I purposely bought FSD -- twice, one for 22 MYP and 25 M3LRAWD. Not sure I will ever buy another Tesla. My daily commute is nearly 200 miles. I bought the M3 for that commute. Not only do I not regret the purchases, but I would never buy another Tesla without FSD. Lastly, 8k price never crossed my mind. I am a knowledge worker. My effectiveness and productivity from FSD is easily worth 8k a year, much less 8k forever. (Yes, I would have paid 15k.)

I have two vehicles, one paid and one subscription....I regret the fully paid one every day. If, by some miracle, I keep both cars for a decade, then I'd probably change my mind, but that's not happening.

I hope they offer a pre-paid for a year discount like what they do on the premium internet access...or even better an "all-in" subscription, like $1k year for FSD, internet and Grok (wishful thinking).

$50/month I think is reasonable for it

Op said he didn’t care for/wont use FSD. Since he’s not interested in FSD what he thinks about price is not important—he’s not the target consumer.

Huh? If there’s no market for FSD then I guess it doesn’t matter what the price is. I have no idea what percentage of tesla owners use/buy/subscribe to this product and whatever that number is likely has no bearing on price particularly as FSD is an emerging tech. The minuscule numbers of people that actually own Tesla’s and are on Reddit or other social media who post and offer opinions about it is irrelevant to the price. I’m not sure why the current price of FSD is such a mystery. It really quite simple. It’s what a willing buyer will pay for it—that is Tesla’s market. Will a competitor offer a similar product for less in the future? I’m sure many companies are working on that and you’re free, as we all are to purchase from them.

I’m hoping they drop FSD on HW3 vehicles to at least $75 since it’ll never be as feature complete as FSD on HW4.

Okay so first, FSD just requires you to look at the road if you have an internal cabin camera. You don’t have to touch anything. Second, I know it says “squeeze” the wheel or whatever, but it’s not about pressure at all. You just have to tug on the wheel a little so the car feels the resistance, works perfectly 100% of the time for me.

Little secret for ya, V13 and V12 do that too if you have an internal cabin camera. Source: I have a 22 Model 3 LR and when I use FSD, all I have to do is pay attention to the road.

Shiesty move Elon... no auto pilot, no cruise control... and fsd as subscription model only will bring down value for customer to purchase a tesla.

I suspect we may see it go as low as 20 bucks a month in our lifetime. This may be decades away however.

FSD demo available last year (2025) on my 2023 model 3 proved that the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. I believe FSD hardware improved significantly on 2024+ models. I’m with you. SaS model bugs me and I refuse. I won’t even pay for premium connectivity on principle

After driving nearly an hour in traffic to work and about 35 to return home for over 30 years, FSD is a dream come true. If I just putted around town now and then, I doubt I would pay it. I believe, the highway is where it pays off. I dread driving our other car to work now. Seriously…. It will make my last ten years of commuting so much less stressful. And I love technology. So watching the progression is fascinating. Last thing. Someone mentioned the cost should be in line with what it costs to run it and no more. I have a feeling if you use it like I do, you are using a ton of compute power. So I would not like to change the pay structure. May be wrong… My two cents…

I just bought for 2K today. HW4/XPlaid. 8K is a lot. 2K is a no brainer.

Same with me. I have a 22 M3 standard range and it only does that steering assist warning in auto pilot. I also have an cabin camera. FSD is still great on the older models. I drive almost 3 hours to work and back and most of the time it's on FSD. I even drive through canyons on FSD and it's near perfect. The only issues are: It disengages when there's too much glare (like, your camera has a direct view of the sun). I'll disengage at a 4 way stop because it's It's too good and drivers in back of me will honk 3 out of 10 times. LA drivers are impatient as hell. It doesn't get certain exits right on the freeway, if multiple exists are within a quarter mile of each other. Other than that I like the subscription model also, because when I'm ready to buy an new one several years down the line the subscription doesn't carry over, which sucks. On the other hand, Tesla's not gonna work for free if constant improvements and software updates are being made.

I bought it and use it all the time. I get emails regularly that I can transfer if I upgrade. But it’s just too soon for that. I’d feel jipped if I don’t get to transfer it. All these years waiting for it to be finalized. It’d be like buying an iPhone and Apple not letting me transfer my apps. Tesla gotta be smart about keeping people in their ecosystem. The competition is just gonna increase. Maybe this is why Elon wants his pay package. Knowing they’re gonna have trouble growing from here

I don’t even use it when they give me a free trial. It’s a nearly useless technology. It’s useful for eating a sandwich while driving but that’s about it. Everything else that Musk claims it’s good for is inflated BS.

I’m not betting man, but I think it might included in a HW5’s price (or an option to add it at time of purchase). It would stupid not to have either or as an option. I wasn’t upgrading my 23 M3 for another 3-4 years (and I’m happy subbing) so by that time (like most have said) other companies should have something similar available. Not too worried about the charging infrastructure or being locked to Tesla vehicles 4 years from now since I have a Universal Connector at home.

If you’re a white supremacist, for sure.

It’s absolutely worth it

This. Everybody keeps saying how Tesla is light years ahead of their competition, but things can change fast. Others will enter the market. Barriers are high, but not insurmountable.

Yea I own one

I bought FSD for both of my Teslas and would do it again. Using it is the norm for me. It’s hugely convenient and the combination of FSD and me equals a massive increase in safety. I’m not 100% convinced yet that we’re ready for unsupervised FSD but the human/FSD combo is so much safer than driving yourself that I feel it’s an unnecessary risk to drive without it.

I had my Tesla for 7 months, 4 of those months were under FSD trials I just didn’t find myself using it even though I had the choice. I preferred to keep control myself and let basic AP do the mundane tasks of keeping my speed and lane, which it’s very good at. I didn’t mind having to keep my hand on the wheel. Paying $100 for the car to do what I’m capable of doing it seems like a waste of money personally. It’s not worth it to me. If it was cheaper, I might rethink my position.

analysis is only correct until you realize FSD subscription is only going to get more expensive and not stay at $99/month

Do you even realize that most ppl already use monthly subscriptions instead of paying 8k to buy it?

If Waymo moved the giant load of crap on their roof into the confines of their Subaru would they be ahead of Tesla?

Tesla currently sells/leases "supervised FSD". You think they will consider unsupervised Cyber Taxi software as being a more valuable and separate product?

You should try driving it sometime.

Hi

Tesla seems hell bent on pissing off its consumer base Don’t use it and turn off all data sharing in a mass boycott and they will come to their senses on pricing I do have a Tesla with the FSD trial and it’s pretty nice but if it went away I could still drive the car and life would go on

I also predict Tesla will extend the trial They are really taking a beating on sales and now need to make up revenue Great car and service, Musk needs to either go or stay out of politics because he is wrecking his company and affecting all the employees

I do drive it . I don’t pay thousands of dollars for the “privilege” of being a guinea pig for a beta software that may drive me off a bridge (then deactivating itself at the last moment and blaiming me for the crash ) .

LOL. You should drive a Tesla sometime. But just to play along, which Tesla do you claim to own? Quick, google some.😀

Why do u think I don’t have one? I own a m3 sr+ , bought it back in 2021 . It’s a good value if you don’t buy the overpriced beta software that’s pushed with it

My upgrade option says 49.99 for FSD. I have a 22 Model Y performance

I won’t be buying another Tesla in the future. As someone who bought FSD back in 2020, this is feeling like an absolute scam.