I really don't understand why Tesla isn't using an IR sensor like this at least as one of the forward facing camera channels. It would add SO MUCH better perception especially at night or in fog.
What brand did you install for your car?
https://preview.redd.it/kqgg21rwxs9g1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b58ac53d7171dd4ad849dfd8d2e53d7ad36dc1a1 Wish more car manufacturers would do this.
Seems really cool and a great idea.
Robofinity. I mounted the actual camera in the front grill
The same reason they scrapped radar - cost savings at the expense of utility and safety.
I wonder if a night vision dashcam with remote display could achieve a similar result; mount the display on the steering column. It would need the same range - say 1000 feet?
How did you run the wires ?
On my car, there is a grommet on the passenger side where you can penetrate the firewall. You’ll need to pull back the carpet to get access to it.
Need more info on this I love this and would do it to a normal car Edit : Robofinity is the answer
Thermal imaging won’t penetrate glass so you couldn’t mount it inside.
Is it hard to reach ? I have a 2024 model3. Might be lil different from yours though
But, Elon will sell it to you as "breakthroughs". When in reality you're right - it was to save
Not hard, mine is a 2018 so it may be completely different from a 2024. However, I would search YouTube. There may be some guides on how to penetrate the firewall on a Highland model.
My Equinox EV I traded my Tesla for has a radar, and it slams on the brakes when nothing is in front of me. The Tesla never had these issues with cameras only.
Thanks alot dude
Audi had this in 2013
I'm excited for rivian's system that merges both cameras and lidar
Got any photos of the camera mounted to the vehicle?
https://preview.redd.it/l178tfp96t9g1.jpeg?width=2338&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c87fdaefac29d04ba67e481d4fc10f0e1b42fef You can see it in this pic. Center of the grill.
I don't care what is used as long as it functions well. So far the Tesla with cameras only functions the best.
Some premium cars 20 years ago had IR cameras, surprises me it never caught on.
Rivian could never collect as much data as Tesla does.
My m3 slams on the brakes all the time. Fires off collision warnings when I’m in manual driving mode.
That's not good.
Get your front camera housing cleaned.
How long have you had it and does it have any issues/ annoying things about it?
That’s not what Elon and his application of First Principles Engineering argue.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Ok cost and how hard was the install
The first principle is saving money.
Yeah and that’s why he launches reusable rockets too. To save money.
Cool story. Can’t believe a Chevy has issues….
Has plenty. A hell of a lot more than my Model 3 did.
Was under $500. Installation wasn’t bad. Just had to remove front bumper, frunk/pax side trim pieces and pull back carpet. Probably took me about 2 hours. There is an option to mount it on the hood which would’ve been much much easier but I thought it might look funny.
I mean to some degree you get what you pay for. But the fact that an entry level GM EV has some issues \*possibly\* related to its radar subsystem doesn't exactly serve as an indictment against the safety and efficacy of radar more broadly across the industry, right? Of course not. Every vehicle I've owned with radar has worked flawlessly, which likewise is apocryphal, but this is Reddit. Radar, unlike the shitty dimestore cameras used by Tesla, is capable of directly measuring range, not merely inferring it. Radar operates perfectly when it is dark outside, a condition that faces much of the world for longer or shorter durations throughout the year. Radar is largely unaffected by other things that render a camera useless as well, such as haze, dust, and fog. Is it perfect? Of course not. So why not both?
The money savings is always in the interest of making more money.
A couple months. Only issue is the Ai alerts for car/animal/vehicle detection barely work do I don’t rely on it
Common for me at highway intersections. Scares the shit out of me every time. Not to mention the poor people behind me.
That trade in must have been recent. Slamming the brakes was definitely an issue on teslas camera based system not all that long ago as well.
The Equinox in the spec i have was $49,800. That's more expensive than my Model 3 was. I'm leasing the Equinox bc I'd never pay that much for a non luxury vehicle. The Tesla felt like 10x the car this is. I only sold bc i wanted something w more cargo space and it was while Elon was politically crazy and making me not want to own a Tesla. But looking back I regret selling it. And my Model 3 cameras were great, extremely clear when compared to other vehicles I've had.
I need to do this. Boar and deer love to hangout near the shoulder of my morning commute drive.
Not until 14.2.2.
My 2011 7 series had this, it was a piece of shit but that was defs a useful feature
Mine would suddenly slow down, but never slam the brakes. It's so bad in the equinox that I've had to disable front crash prevention. Pretty much everybody in the equinox sub has done the same.
Hard to train without data
Are those ALP sensors? Nice 👍🏻
Cost saving, not just hardware but also the fact that you have limited IR data to train.
Camera based systems can only improve with driving data. The 50 Rivians on the road won't be able to collect enough data to vastly improve it's system.
TPX actually
I wish avoiding deer was this simple, and kudos to OP for the attempt. If you were trying to avoid a moose, perhaps, but deer? Not so much.
Camera based systems will never overcome being constrained to a tiny portion of the EM spectrum - \~400-700nm for the average digital camera. All the AI in the world can't make a camera see at night or in the fog, only use of different portions of the bandwidth through the use of other sensor types can.
Maybe OP should post the product??
There's a specific spot on my drive home where the guard rail on a bridge is smashed up. Even though it's not a threat my Tesla will always stop in FSD on that bridge.
Robofinity
How do you think they train these models?
How else would the world keep spinning if the production chain didnt have new customers lol
Got it You're smarter than Elon and all the engineers he employs.
roof entertain water narrow dinner aback modern memorize gray joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*
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Yes I did. It was less than $500 and took about two hours to install.
When radar was active you could hug ass in FSD / AP, it was nice.
I would take false positive brake slamming over what actually happened to me. 2020 m3 with radar disabled a couple years back, ran into a deer which should've been visible to both cameras and radar (if it was on). Yes, I was messing with music, it's totally my fault, but come on.
Right but cost savings isn’t always at the expense of utility and safety as you also assert. More sensors for the sake of more sensors isn’t necessarily better.
Clearly is his self-impression.
I never said that all cost savings come at the expense of safety and utility, I said the removal of radar and the lack of other sensors did. More sensors are never installed on a vehicle simply for the sake of adding more sensors - they’re used to overcome the glaring deficiencies of certain types of sensors. Ultrasonic sensors in the bumpers allow distance measuring to objects outside the FOV of installed mirrors and cameras, for instance. Radar is used to accurately measure distance and closure rate to objects ahead when cameras cannot. Cameras have a wider FOV and can gather more detail than radar systems, but are easily blinded and are generally only adequate at depth perception, especially when installed mere inches apart.
I’m sure the accountants he employs were also heavily involved in the decision.
That picture is from an Audi a8
Tesla never had issues for you with cameras only. There was a good period after the swap off radar that AP was completely useless on 2 lane roads for me. About a year and a half?
Some engineers publicly came out to say the decision was against the advice of the engineering department at the time. It was simply because they couldn't get any radars to fit becuase of the covid shortages. Other brands scaled back production, Tesla continued with production but stopped fitting radars. The decision was purely Elon and against the advice of the engineers.
How do you realistically use this - are you checking it every few seconds? Are you driving solely off it? I can’t tell if it’s a viable solution or a gimmick.
I drove in fog last week for the first time, autopilot, cruise control, all useless. So dumb
And for what? U will see the deer now on two cameras where one is a bit brighter.
Why would they? U are not supposed to drive faster then what u can see anyways and ofc stop in time. So the autopilot will not do that as well.
I am afraid of radar. Wish it would all go away. //While some studies link high-level radar exposure to cancers (especially hematolymphoid), official health guidelines state typical traffic radar exposure isn't proven to cause cancer, contrasting with concerns over intense military/industrial RF exposure. //
The frequency of the radar systems installed on cars can’t penetrate your skin. And the power levels are very low.
And you know this because you did the studies? No offense but when money is involved I become suspicious. Look at cell phones. //“We found that cell phone use is linked to gliomas \[malignant brain tumors\] and acoustic neuromas \[benign tumors of the brain’s auditory nerve\] and are showing up after only ten years,” says lead author Lennart Hardell, an oncologist and cancer epidemiologist at University Hospital in Örebro, Sweden. Specifically, for studies that included at least 10 years of exposure, there was a doubling in the risk of gliomas for ipsilateral (same-side) but not contralateral (opposite-side) exposures to the head (as reflected by which hand the subject typically used to hold his/her cell phone). A 2.4-fold increase in risk was seen for acoustic neuromas due to ipsilateral exposures, whereas no increased risk occurred for meningiomas (tumors that occur in the membranes covering the brain and spinal cord).// [https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2569116/](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2569116/)
Mercedes had it in the 2006 S-class.
Cell phone cellular bands range as low as 450 MHz, which will easily penetrate your skin. Same with their WiFi at 2.4Ghz. As frequencies increase, however, RF will simply dissipate as heat on the surface of your skin. Car radars operate in the 77Ghz range, well above what is capable of any significant amount of penetration. Their peak power output is usually in watts, not significant at all. The gasses coming out of the tailpipe if it’s a gas or diesel car, the dust created by the tires and brakes for any car, or the vape smoke billowing out the window if it is a WRX are all going to be far more harmful to your long term health than the radar system’s output.
Very very cool.. my only question is.. even you can see if on the lcd screen now, do you look at it all the time?
Because they must use OEM, safety certified assemblies and these cost a few thousand dollars per unit. This alone would perhaps require a redesign of the high bandwidth data system. Moreover, safety certifications on the vision side are a PITA. Regulations are closing the gap thanks to the robotic/humanoid field where there is huge need for safety certified depth cameras.
Well, nowdays mercedes aint have anything common functions anymore without paying monthly subscriptions. Even Dacias are those functions by default for ever.
Wait until you find out that radar is just a low powered radio transmitter and the closer you are to a radio transmitter the more power you absorb. Your despair rectangle you are holding in your hands right now pumps more RF energy into you than a radar module on a bumper ever will. Now go look at an image of the electromagnetic spectrum. https://www.elevise.co.uk/gap6j.html See that stuff on the far right? X rays? Gamma rays? That's the danger end. Then there is light in the middle. Radio waves? That's the far other end if the spectrum And then there is power. Modern radio gear is stupid low power crazy low. Do you know how fire is dangerous? It emits radiation! Scary! Well, now imagine a birthday cake candle in the middle of a gym. Does that candle pose a hazard to everyone in the gym? No. Everyone can see the light. It could be used as a signalling device by shading it with a piece of paper. But the actual amount of energy involved is so small it's harmless. The energy emitted by the sun that we get on the ground? Well that's like 1000 watts per square foot. Your despair rectangle is emitting around 0.5 watts or less if you are on wifi and the antenna is close.
the tech is expensive and customers dont really need it
I usually glance down at it every once in a while, similar to how you will glance at a speedometer. However, it will give chime alerts if it detects an animal. These alerts are a bit buggy on busy winding roads but work great on open highways.
My Tesla doesn't have it, but Ive got night vision on an Audi and it's unique. Even catches small animals in nearby trees. Creepy and functional.
Because you don't understand what photons are? https://www.teslamagazine.org/2025/01/if-i-could-as-elon-musk-one-question.html#:\~:text=Direct%20photon%20counting%2C%20as%20described,by%20traditional%20ISP%20post%2Dprocessing.&text=As%20I%20was%20doing%20more,Tesla%20prioritizing%20caution%20or%20rerouting.
Correct, and the FSD will stop based on the one already in the car. So many people here are not well educated about photons...
You fundamentally don't understand photon counting. FSD sees BETTER.
[https://x.com/TeslaNewswire/status/1966244684541403537](https://x.com/TeslaNewswire/status/1966244684541403537)
You can't count photons that are not there because potential hazards can be beyond the practical reach of any illumination from headlights. Put another way, there is a reason extremely expensive IR sensors are still used to see in the dark and not cheap visible light image sensors with magic hand-wavy software that "counts photons" to generate an image in no-light conditions... I should also point out that "counting photons" is just how *all* camera sensors work in the first place. That is how brightness of a pixel is determined and this isn't some new concept or anything.
Link to the system used?
Wish a deer took mine too
My vanpool Chevy traverse slams on brakes when I’m using radar cruise. Makes my vanpool people telling me to not use it. Cuz they don’t trust it.
BMW 5 series and 7 series had this as well. I used to own a BMW 550i xDrive and it had this as an option.
Um Tesla used to have a bad problem with phantom braking for many years while they were working on EAP and FSD. I don't think it was solved until FSD 11.
Phantom braking in Tesla's is slowing down for no reason when in a specific driver aid mode, not slamming on the brakes and coming to a complete stop with just normal driving. Big difference.
An occasional slowdown when in autopilot, but never slammed on the brakes.
Yeah, it wasn't happening outside of EAP/FSD but it was harsh braking and I was always riding the accelerator pedal to override and watching my rear view mirror in case someone was tailgating. That would be really irritating if it was always on doing that.
Because they front lights on the highland model 3 are fucking amazing and you can see a deer miles away
My car slammed the brakes when a truck ahead of me billowed some smoke. I’m using FSD way way less everyday.
Sir...photons are not just from headlights. Please read more. They are present in what the human eye sees as pitch black. IR spectum ISNT NEEDED for sensors that literally acn count individual photons.And the magic is removing image interpretation. Please...please read more and comment when you get it. You fundamentally dont understand.
The sensors used by Tesla cannot magically do things no one else can do just because Elon made the statement you keep referring to. Even an expensive DSLR camera with a much larger sensor and huge lens/aperture (compared to Tesla sensors) is going to take several seconds of exposure time to see anything recognizable on a completely dark night using only starlight and manmade light sources. AND the camera and object need to be completely stationary otherwise motion blur would make the image unrecognizable. Tesla has not found some magic way to defy physics and make this work the way you think it does on a car driving 70 mph on a dark night with itty bitty visible light camera sensors.
I feel like rocks might take it away without hard glasses like windshield to protect it. Also might get submerged in heavy rain puddles for an instant at that height.
I have FSD, but rarely use it. I prefer to drive myself. I think my total FSD usage is only like 4%.
They going 70 and this image pops up? Good luck
Wouldn’t the radar which was on the earlier models also would catch this? Too bad it is disabled on old models with the latest SW.
Yes...in fact...that's what inventions and patents are. And I can show you in real life in my car today. Read more of the correct things and you won't need to.reply.
"How can i ruin my tesla today?"
Cameras naturally detect ir-it isn’t expensive. Thermal imaging is expensive
Dint the deer lose to your M3P?
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