Teslas are the only popular cars getting more expensive to insure

Also lower quality, according to the German automotive inspection agency.

Easily totalled for insurance.

Tesla is similar to Apple in that it’s an extremely isolated and closed environment.  When you need proprietary software to enable functions or parts from an entity that opposes right to repair, you get this.  Tesla blatantly displaying their middle finger to anyone who owns a Tesla.

Maybe because Tesla is marketed as "no need to maintain", they are not maintained until something breaks or fail inspection.

Tesla drivers are shit at driving

They're new, though. And major issues. "According to the TÜV Report 2026, the Tesla Model Y ranked last for reliability among 2–3 year-old cars in Germany, with a record 17.3% failure rate in mandatory safety inspections. Common issues causing failures included suspension, axle assembly, and brake issues".

Rapid acceleration distracted driving Also you buy one to do a good mileage. If you do a low mileage there are cheaper cars. Electric is cheaper per mile. Frequency rather than average cost?

Can you please tell the class about the market conditions that have 96% of vehicles’ premiums decreasing?

But Apple’s quality has been very good since the Jobs era. And most of their products aren’t a years long commitment with a huge monthly payment.

Meanwhile... - https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tops-france-reliability-rankings-vs-toyota-2025/ - https://autorai.nl/betrouwbaarste-auto-volgens-consumentenbond/ (Dutch, but I'll translate it for you below) > De hogere score van Tesla in het nieuwste onderzoek is vooral te danken aan de grotendeels probleemloze Tesla Model Y. Dankzij het beperkte aantal pechmeldingen en storingen in 2025 is dit de betrouwbaarste elektrische auto in het gehele onderzoek. Translated: > The higher scored Tesla in the newest research is thanks to the Model Y, which showed very rew issues. Thanks to a very limited amount of reported issues, it has been **the highest rated EV on the list.** I am dutch and I am subscribed to Consumentenbond. Their previous issue ranked Tesla one of the worst brands. Things have changed. They are right below the common Japanese brands, but they barely sell EVs. Also, BYD is on the list, right next to Tesla, with top-tier reliability. Funny side-note: Tesla also scored WORST on customer satisfaction on their dealerships. Interesting (:

Apple’s innovation has been shite since Jobs passed.  My initial comment wasn’t about quality, rather the ecosystem they’ve built with lack of right to repair fundamentals.  If we’re talking about quality, Tesla could learn a thing or two from Apple.

here for the save money list

Not really. People just gloss over the faults and defects on new Apple products.

If China Invades Taiwan, every car will have to delete their smart screens and computers. We may have more analog fixed lower tier chips that allow the vehicles to still be made. But they will be dumb cars. And no one will afford them, because credit markets will be collapsed. So I predict the cyber cab will lose the screen and all smart features, get normal doors, and become a subscription model. Good news, if something breaks, you just get another identical one. I'm guessing all cars move to this model. Populations are stalling, boomers are dying, and markets no longer grow - they cannibalize. This could lead to a steady drop in subscription pricing because the only way to grow your value will be to get more lower end customers paying monthly. The very basis of our economic models will have to drastically change. Even if they build every chip factory they want in North America by 2030s, we'll only have 10 percent of the capacity Taiwan has. And we also don't have advanced packaging like chiplets here at all. Zero. We make chips here, and they are sent to Taiwan for packaging. We're entirely screwed. And the chips we do make? Will go to defense or other high priority stuff. I dunno, we may have to have dumb phones also. Maybe e-ink phones that do a fraction of what they do now, but are the same price. What a stupid mess this was to let a small island have a monopoly.

Would be interesting to see what is meant by reliability. Probably more about safety. For example, I have a problem with some safety rankings that score things like the clear view of blinkers, but not the existence of heavy frames that physically shield passengers from harm.

“Popular” among a very specific group of people

Do you have any info on the model Y/3 and how those are doing? I’m not surprised at all with the complexity of the model X and the low volumes.

“Popular”

Popular isn’t the way I’d describe Tesla anymore.

That could be why Tesla is discontinuing the x and s model this year. My source is Google.

No, its user reported issues. Basically a list of “did you have issues? Could you continue driving? How satisfied are you?” To a sample of subscribers. The logical reason for this difference between found issues and self-reported issues is that issues are not bothering users or are not found by users until they fail inspection or something breaks. But there can also be other differences, like what model years are included and such.

Vehicle design engineers knew this when they first heard about "giga casting". If you get into a fender bender, Tesla may be written off whereas a typical designed car will need localized body work. But less parts for manufacturing is better for Tesla.

Popular?

There was that article that came out a while ago showing Teslas having a higher fatality rate than other brands. Doesn't matter if your car is "Five Star" rated for 35mph if people are flying into telephone poles and walls at 60mph and then unable to escape.

No hate but please dont compare Apple to Tesla. Apple is a overpriced Smartphone company, Tesla is a massive fraud. Apples ecosystem lock might be annoying but we can't compare that to Elons and his endless lies and shitty product quality.

Yeah

Both are very much against Right to Repair is the message I wanted to deliver.

Popular?

Wait, Teslas are popular... wow, I got some Azteks to sell people... along with AIDs, Polio and TB.

They're just as bad as the car. I love when I am on a dead straight highway with navigation set and randomly "Curvature assist" will engage and makes sure the cars behind me are paying attention and hitting the brakes for no reason.

No doubt the "young male" things can add some cost....even if the buyers are not truly young males, their state of mind is such. They are somewhat sold on the speed thing...which is why (if true) the fatalities are so high in general.

\> Apple’s innovation has been shite since Jobs passed.  Not at all. Apple Watch. Apple Silicon. Apple Vision. And just a huge load of smaller things.

Untrue. People who have a defective phone go to exchange it and complain about it on Reddit. Your statement is seriously not in line with reality. Apple strives to achieve great quality because they are the last ones who want to lose money on having to accept returns and less satisfied customers.

Apple may not be the RtR champion, but they are much better than they were. You can look at manuals online and purchase replacement parts.

Apple has never been big on innovation. Their strength, especially in the Jobs era, was letting other people innovate, recognizing which ones would be a market-place success, then rapidly commercializing it.

How’d you describe them lol ?

Its a shame it took 10 years to wake up to what rich Rebuilds was saying back in 2016. These cars are not repairable.

That is the only Tesla to Apple comparison that is valid. They don't want to fix it they want you to buy another

Apple Silicon?

If China invades Taiwan we arent going to lose all tech. I mean maybe America under this current administration would because they would refuse to buy Chinese chips, but the rest of the world probably isnt gonna have a problem buying chips from China if they have to.

Because they kill people inside and outside the cars. It’s not rocket surgery.

Dying in a market that is growing.

That was Jobs' long term plan, Cook simply saw it through. I am biased as I am no fan of Cook, but the writing is on the wall that this was Jobs' project.

Thats a smoke screen. I had a business in repairing ipods, iphones, electronics. There was a day where you did NOT need apple to procure replacement parts or replace the parts for that matter. Now you need proprietary Apple software to program replacement parts, otherwise they wont work. Please educate yourself, as you ate up the propaganda that Apple has fed you. Have you ever repaired your electronics? I closed up my repair business about 8 years ago because Apple has made its stance clear and that is attacking Right to Repair in every aspect.

Fair enough. Not too dissimilar from Tesla with the M3 and Y then lol

I imagine it can't help that it seems Tesla drivers have taken up the Nissan Altima "Bat out of hell" attitude.

Tesla dealerships think they are a Ferrari dealership. Ferrari vets but Tesla staff mistake it for ignore.

This has in most part to do with how people go to the TÜV in germany. Almost all cars are brought to a workshop or dealership for their first TÜV. They will inspect the car before the actual TÜV and if the TÜV finds a problem they'll try to fix it before the TÜV leaves. This drives the failure rate for "traditional" cars down a lot. Still 17% is a crazy high number for the first TÜV

Just look at the reliability stats over the years.

Part of it is how Tesla locks down who can repair their vehicles. This causes claim costs to be much higher for Teslas than most mass produced vehicles.

Popular?

Tesla users tend to white knight everything Tesla does. I have a couple of friends who would accept and defend basically anything.

🤩

I work for a large insurance company which is a preferred provider for Tesla owners in my country. At our employee town hall meeting last week, one of the execs was talking about some boring profit performance figures and challenging obstacles in the year ahead. Then casually mentioned that a full 25% of Tesla drivers had been in an accident recently. There were audible gasps in the audience. I asked around and yeah, its not something they publish. "Preferred provider" and all.

So there's a few factors that seem like they're causing this. First off, the context is that rates got hiked quite a bit for the two years before this. Insurers were making good money, but they started getting more competitive with their pricing since they'd had two years of wide profit margins. We also haven't seen the full potential impact of US tariffs. Those could affect insurance premiums because they can make car parts (and therefore, repairs, more expensive) The general trend in the past has been that rates go up over time. But this year people are getting some decreases.

It's more than that. They didn't innovate in the sense that they didn't invent much in the way of new hardware. But they innovated in terms of putting technology together and packaging it into well-designed products people wanted. For instance, the iPod was by no means the first MP3 player. But the design was very sleek, it was very easy to use, it integrated seamlessly with the iMac and iTunes (and on that note - Jobs getting the record companies to finally agree to sell music online at a reasonable price was a remarkable business feat in-itself) The Mac wasn't the first GUI computer, as is commonly known, Xerox really came up with the main stuff, and Apple wasn't the only imitator (MS Windows, Digital Research's GEM etc). The Mac wasn't even Apple's first GUI machine. It was just a simple to use machine that integrated very well with its peripherals. The Apple LaserWriter wasn't the very first laser printer, but it was the first one that was mass-market and again easy to use. Together with Pagemaker suddenly Desktop Publishing was a thing anyone could do without even needing to know much about computer. They 'just worked' to an extent PC compatibles never did, and which better competitors like the Amiga and Atari ST still couldn't quite match. And on the software side, look at NeXT OS and OS X - taking a powerful *ix operating system but with an easy to use GUI on top - nether new things in themselves but not combined as well before. Or Display Postscript - again, Apple didn't invent Postscript but the idea of taking the device-independent graphics model that PS created for printers and using that for on-screen drawing seems almost like a no-brainer, but nobody had done it until NeXT and later OS X. Prior to that you'd have to write different code for on-screen drawing vs stuff being printed. People knew GUIs were the future in the early 80s but Apple did it better. Programmers knew device-independent 2d graphics was a good idea, but NeXT/Apple were the ones who made it standard on their OS. People wanted MP3 players but Apple seems to have been the only ones who realized people needed them to be easier, easy to sync, fewer buttons. And then there's the iPhone - what even needs to be said there? A computer company just takes over the whole cell phone market due to their product design. If you put existing tech together in a new and appealing way and everyone starts doing the same, that's certainly innovation.

Guessing you want the cars whose premiums dropped the most? You should know that these aren't the cheapest to insure overall, but here are the ones whose average insurance rates dropped (I put the decreases in parentheses): 1. Kia Forte (-12%) 2. Volkswagen Tiguan (-11%) 3. Chevrolet Tahoe (-11%) 4. Subaru Outback (-11%) 5. Mazda 3 (-11%)

Thanks. Your last paragraph neatly summed up why I was asking.

Factors like reliability and range are definitely some of the top reasons why people are generally a little hesitant about EVs.

Yeah, it looks like the Model Y costs $396 per month for full-coverage insurance on average. For the Model 3, the average is $338. In comparison, the national average is $136 per month. So even with those models, the average rate is way higher than what most people are paying.

I would actually think the opposite. They are more expensive to insure because they are being discontinued. It'll become harder to find parts.

What effect does those 2 models being discontinued have on insurance? I'd think in the long term it would make parts harder to find which could increase the premiums?

Basically what you're describing is what I meant by "commercializing it". You chose to consider that innovation, which is fine; I take a narrower view of innovation.

Taiwan has threatened to go scorched earth if invaded.

tesla is similar to every other OEM in this way. have you never had to fix a car made after 2010?

Absolutely. I also ran a repair shop for over 8 years. Are you trying to sound educated because you are coming off as the opposite.

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Absolutely. My ICE car will whine and beep at me every 12 months or 20.000km, and I'm happy to check it. My new Tesla will obviously get the same treatment, especially now that I'm aware of potential hidden issues like screws falling out, things getting lose, brakes not working properly. Just bring it in every year for a quick check-up.

if you ran a repair shop for 8 years you’d know that tesla has one of the better user service solutions out there. the service manuals are free, you can do all your own scans and do most of your own service without paying anything at all. the advanced toolbox software is significantly cheaper than a dealer computer from another OEM, and you can do anything that a shop can do with that. oh and the EPC is open to customers directly.

True 90% of Tesla owners are like Trump supporters

How?