The same way they don't want to license other shit that just doesn't work. FSD either works 100% or it's 100% garbage. No middle ground.
Why would they ? From the company that put nylon on people and tell them to dance as robots
Why would anyone pay to license inferior technology? Poor Elon. New vehicle sales are tanking, he's losing the self-driving taxi race to Waymo, his "advanced chip" production has been pushed back by 18 months, and he's running out of ways to bullshit investors.
Spandex?
Next up: also nobody will want to use TSLA proprietary AI chips. Likely, not even TSLA themselves.
busy escape coherent marble jar pause paltry wild smell gold *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*
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Every other carmaker, including ones just doing ACC, have fucking sensors Of course no one wants a vision only system. And how is he even keeping going with this narrative when Waymo is out doing it. Who would pay for potential autonomy when there is real autonomy?!
He hasn‘t even left the garage in that race while everyone else is already on their warmup laps
Dance! I said DANCE!
Camera based self driving isn’t it Elmo, no one wants that.
Can we license software and proprietary hardware that we know doesn’t work and kills people?
Maybe you should work on the full self driving part before trying to get a license.
Considering Full Self Driving (Supervised) is a **vision only** system, and the other manufacturers use a combination of cameras, radar, and LiDAR, of course they don’t want to license it and have their cars park into stopped and lighted up emergency vehicles.
The entire idea of "Full" Self-driving that requires constant monitoring is class action lawsuit worthy. "Full" means "cannot hold any more". If it requires continual monitoring, it ain't "full".
True, most car companies try not to kill their customers.
Our drivers can crash into firetrucks and police cars all on their own. They don't value it. We are disturbed how many of our customers are fine with hitting pedestrians and blaming the car. Also, insurance companies have some thoughts...
It'll never work 100%, but 99% is nowhere near good enough.
Cause they don’t want to be sued out of existence. But if it’s so ground breaking why wouldn’t they. Hmmmm
ELON = 🤡 How’s DOGE fanboi 🤡s
No one wants to license something that DOES NOT WORK. 😂
The race is half over and he's still screaming at the gas cap.
Not quite. At that point the others could just deploy their taxis wherever they want without local training. That won‘t happen for screw more years.
Strangely enough, there are also no one who is interested in licensing my soon-to-release invention that uses sea water to create clean fuel without using any energy at all. One drop of sea water can power a city of millions for a month. Everyone I have aproached about are saying "Thats almost as unlikely to work as Teslas FSD!"
“No one wants to license my beta max!!!”
Dance magic, dance!
He already said he's just aiming for "better" than human drivers. I've never once seen him use it. Come to think about it he doesn't use most of his crap.
It’s stupid to buy the FSD. I don’t fully trust it
Has anybody licensed their unbreakable windows?
Because the tesla fsd has been proven time and time again to reduce opinion of the brand Costs a lot more than the other guys, and performs so poorly it leaves a sour taste in the customers mouths
Put that baby's spell on me
This makes perfect sense. Why in the hell would Ford re-tool their cars to include cameras for self driving, when in just a year from now, their customers can simply buy an Optimus robot to drive any model car? For that matter, why is TSLA even still working on FSD and doing software updates? And why oh why make a dedicated "robotaxi" with no pedals or steering wheel, when they can just make the $25k car Musk promised and plop an Optimus in the driver seat?
Might have been halfway decent if he hadn't gotten rid of the lidar and US
Good thing they just agreed to that ludicrous pay package. Definitely money well invested /s
It could be retooled as a driver assist. There is value before 100%.
Because it’s not actually full self driving. They say as much in their brochures and how they skirt paying lawsuits.
This idiot had to wreck our government agencies to hide all of the cases against his self driving cars.
“Just two more months!”
Because like everything Elmo/Tesler, it’s always next year. And in chip terms that will be out of date. Unless, that is, he continually improves it and then the new improved chip will be next year and so on
Hey Elon have you any magic beans for sale, probably more chance of selling them
Cause it sucks and he uses everyday drivers for basic qa. Mine no longer can maintain the speed limit, crosses center lines, does a strange stuttering like it wants to go at a red light, brakes on shadows etc. The vision only on hw3 is trash and it is a pipe dream that they will update us. Btw, anyone that wants to can take these idiots to small claims court and it is an auto win. Doing it now and will grab 10k from them.
Maybe other automakers already have an acceptable level of death they are willing to accept and FSD is a bridge too far!
What an idiot (Elon). Hasn’t he said the reason to not have sensors is because ‘humans don’t shoot laser beam out of their eyes’? Either he’s using this as some stepping stone to develop human like intelligence (which also doesn’t make sense), or he’s just digging his heels in. If humans could do that I bet they would be better drivers so
99% would be really good, if the system knew in advance when the 1% is coming, and would be able to tell you to take over safely. Alas, that's not how it works.
People are winning in small claims court. No lawyers and people are auto winning.
Nobody wants the legal liability of implementing something that doesn't work and isn't safe.
I think he talks dirty to Grok.
Driver assist is not FSD. To reiterate: "FSD either works 100% or it's 100% garbage."
There often isn't time to just "take over" unless you already have hands on the controls and are paying full attention, in which case the point of a self-driving car is lost.
FWIW: Beta was actually better quality than VHS. It failed because it was proprietary.
Looked more like Neoprene.
It would make more sense for manufacturers to use [Comma.ai](http://Comma.ai) (a low price open source self driving platform that works with most modern cars) than to use Elon's closed source garbage.
After seeing Grok and Grokipedia, nobody will trust them.
The real reply to that idiocy is that Teslas don't have the equivalent of a super computer modeling what's going on out of sight. It's such a stupid comparison.
They don’t want to use a system that admits they are not using all reasonable means to prevent accidents. This is the problem with camera only systems. It is shown that Radar and LiDAR help prevent accidents. You never want to be in the position where you are asked why you chose a system that was less safe over one that is more safe. Other car manufacturers don’t feel like that is a good legal strategy or a good marketing campaign. It’s a shame because licensing is where the big money in FSD is. Robotaxi alone will never generate more than Uber.
"Full Self Driving (Supervised)" is an oxymoron.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rV3VgUlq8A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rV3VgUlq8A)
Because it is crap. No one should want that.
Because they're not crazy like you, 3lon.
If I were an auto manufacturer the very last thing I'd want to do is tie my balls to a competitor's software platform.
Because they're not crazy like you, 3lon.
Subaru(provided by mobile eye) is vision only
It doesn't work for Tesla, it's not going to work in another car...
Duh
Generally, you have to design your car around Tesla's FSD if you want to license their tech. But that would mean that Tesla would capture the value-added, would obtain their data and still be their competitor. Google has a better chance because they don't manufacture cars.
Lawsuits are cheaper than doing the right job. Hopefully people keep exposing the bullshit so Tesla fans eventually take off the rose glasses
Is this true? I bought my car 4 years ago specifically for fsd, and it doesn’t work like it should. I want to get my money back based on what was promised and not delivered so many years ago.
In Norwegian we have an expression “Det henger ikke på greip”, directly translating as “It won’t hang on a pitchfork”, where “it” refers to manure. It means that whatever bullshit someone is peddling, it’s so lacking in substance, that you can’t even shovel it with a pitchfork, or in other words that the BS is on the diarrhea end of quality. I think the expression perfectly encapsulates Musk’s various claims. Do even the most cursory analysis of his claim and everything falls apart. Still
Except the fanboys who keep pumping TSLA stock which is the main product of this company.
Then it should be branded Nearly Full Self Driving (Supervised).
I mean don’t other manufacturers use other methods instead of vision only? I assume that’s a big reason why they won’t transition. I used FSD it wasn’t so bad but cars that use radar are better 🤷🏽
He wants company at the defendant's table during the class action lawsuits.
License crap? Yeah I'm sure they're laughing their heads off
Looks like sh*t lol
Because Optimus is not the Full Self Driving Bot you are looking for.
please 😂
Yeah I mean. They don't even have it yet, do they? Why would they want to license something that doesn't work reliably?
I would question my math classes if Elon told me 1+1=2
Why would they license something for their cars when it doesn't even work on Teslas.
I think this refers to the UK where someone successfully argued that the Tesla website at the time of his purchase said something very specific like “traffic light awareness coming to the UK in 2021” (not exactly that but something along those lines). That was verifiably proven to be incorrect and so he won the case in small claims court.
FSD is basically Cruise Control with Eyesight type features like lane control etc . That's it. It's a marketing scam.
Other car companies already have driver assists. They would have no reason to pay money to a competitor for a driver assist system that is worse than the one they already have.
I feel like it's only a matter of time before some whistleblower comes forward with internal metrics or evidence executives had on collisions, deaths, injuries, etc caused by FSD and the subsequent patches that went into place. Even the hypothetical situation of autopilot being better/safer in the aggregate than humans at some point, I don't see how any deaths could be completely absolved when a human driver causing an accident would be at fault regardless of intent or diligence
Yeah, remember battery day?🤣
He’s about 4th or 5th place in self-driving. I’d trust those new, cute busses that look like kids drawings over Musky FSD.
They don’t want Teslas ‘BBQ the occupants’ feature either. Honestly, who in their right mind would buy a Tesla and risk their and their families lives in it because of the retarded door mechanisms.
According to the Subaru website their Eyesight (TM) system also uses radar.
It's just a matter of time before the snake oil salesman is found out. Cybertruck is dead, the models Y and 3 recently came bottom in European EV reliability tests, car sales down, roadster no where to be seen, another death from a fire in a Tesla, self driving a farce, self driven taxis delayed and lagging behind the competition l, failed hyper loop and lots of problems with space X rockets. If he didn't keep making things up and saying he will deliver mind blowing technology, when we know he won't, his empire would be crumbling now.
All he had to do was *not* be a racist and a fascist.
Yes, other companies tend to listen to their lawyers when told something is a bad idea.
That’s shocking? They don’t want to kill people?
It's not "Full Self-driving" it's "Full Self-driving (supervised)". So it's capable of fully self driving unless and until the driver stops supervising it. Basically an oxymoron.
They are not going to by from a competitor, the tech is unproven, and the insurance providers are not going to take a risk and auto-dealerships make lots of money through insurance sales.
Huh, their newer ones may have added radar, at least my old model does not have radar, it’s a vision only system Edit: quick check the Radar in this context means the ones for blind spot and cross traffic detection, not the ones use for acc
>his empire ~~would~~ should be crumbling now.
Easy, grouping all those failures together will only push the stock up another 20%.
Gortex
man why do they keep using lame AI photoshops elon musk? just use his favorite walrus pic
Just try it…
Imagine that.
FSD* never had LIDAR *supervised
Yes I'm aware. One of the breaking points with mobile eye
Poor Elon? He is the luckiest man on the planet. He gets to live in a mystical bizarro world, where a medium sized car company that is struggling is somehow valued more than any other car company, and where despite his terrible performance as CEO, his board capitulates to his every demand, making him the richest man on the planet by far. He gets to write a few checks to get his choice of president elected, then he gets to be instantly appointed to nearly unchecked power to fiddle around in the government and do whatever he wants, including shutting down investigations into himself and his company. Then he gets to just bail on the whole thing the second he's bored with it, and no one criticizes him for it at all. The guy is charmed.
Oh he has plenty of runway with Optimus robots - he pivoted to robots because they aren't going to be delivered anytime soon, so he has a ton of runway again. As long as whatever he is promising is "next year" he is golden. He gets into trouble when it's "this year" deliveries.
When will elon sue them for discrimination due to his african heritage?
> From the company that put nylon on people and tell them to dance as robots ..and didn't even think to bother hiring someone who can even do the whole robot dancing thing.
Anyone familiar with the TV series “Ice road truckers”? I’d like Elon to sit in the back of one of his cars taken fresh from a lot, and have it self drive the routes the trucks take. No remote assistance allowed.
Especially when they'd be taking on the liability for something they don't control.
The issue with their metrics is that they're garbage even if we assume no foul play. Typically Autopilot *wouldn't/shouldn't* be engaged during an accident because by the time the moment of impact occurs it almost always has already disabled itself either by you trying to save it or it just disables on it's own once it determines the car is out of control. I regrettably was witness to this first hand years ago when I totalled my Model Y.
Why do we need self-driving vehicles? Please give a solid answer.
That’s my new “safe word”.
Another reply is that humans don't use telekinesis to drive. But I don't see a pair of hands and a foot to control the car when FSD is in use. That whole humans don't use lasers argument is ridiculous on many levels.
Curious to see what Rivian has to disclose on their AI Autonomy and AI day on Dec 11.
That's a great expression
That wouldn't take any retooling, just a more honest product name.
Yet they are honest enough to call it a driver assist and not try to sell it as "self-driving".
60% of the time, it works every time...
That's very true, also grok is going to be by far the best vision model and able to beat the best human players via screen camera only and I think he said next year for that too... But that's all pointless because who is going to want a self driving car when Elon is already tooling up to make flying cars? Didn't he promise a demo of one a while ago? I don't remember seeing what came off it though. Not that I want to fly everywhere tbh, I'll stick to the tunnels thanks - hyperspeed transit in vacuum tunnels is the only way to travel. From what I hear the Vegas hyper loop is going great exactly like Elon said it would, except for a few minor details,..
You did get twenty billion for your ITER project so I don't think you should be quite so bitter.
Full Reckless Driving (Narcotized).
> FSD either works 100% Within a set domain, yes. We have self driving cars that effectively work at 100% but they are only fit for environments they are familiar with and where infrastructure is suitable. The best self driving car in the world five years from now even with dramatic improvements will struggle in Dhaka or Mumbai but could be excellent in other places.
I like 3 but the FSD is not useable.
Duh? They don't want to get sued after self driving accidents.
?? he's been claiming that FSD is better than a human for years. He said in Oct 2016, NINE years ago that articles or opinions that cause drivers to doubt or avoid autonomy is "literally killing people"
The metrics Tesla will have but do not publish is number accidents within X seconds of autopilot disconnecting. It’s the stats in the 15 to 45 second window that would be telling, at this point a human driver is unlikely to be able “save” themselves but AP disengaging may make the accident worse for the occupant… due to loss of control.
More failure = share price goes up. Make it make sense! - Clearly when you are the richest man in the world manipulating your company's stock price isn't that hard.
?????? Was this ever a doubt???? It's like saying "Costa doesn't want to license Oceangate Technology"
I appreciate this. Klaatu barada nikto
"Why don't other companies want our software to run on their vehicles??" says CEO of company who doesn't allow Apple's or Google's software to run on their vehicles.
The exact same issue will arise with regulators. Why would they approve a system that is less safe and has no redundancy when there are safer systems available?
They may not have good metrics on it because of how Autopilot operates. Autopilot will straight up disengage itself the moment it detects any wheel slip i.e. "loss of control" or any unintended deviation from its course either human initiated or itself loosing control while driving. This is where Autopilot sucks as a drivers assistant. It's very binary in design. It either has full control or almost none at all. It's not like a system, say OpenAI's Comma device. That system allows the human to make minor adjustments and give assistance to the system where it may not be behaving as it should. For example, hugging the fog line too close, particularly if there's an object or construction work on the shoulder. You can nudge the wheel to move the car away from it. With Autopilot? You have to disengage the entire system, potentially dramatically which can cause an accident on its own. You can't "assist" Tesla's system and it definitely doesn't act like an assistant given the steering torque required to override it.
Eh that one is actually answerable. Regulators are not there to determine the best system just the systems that pass their requirements. So there is a min bar that regulators pass everyone who is better than that. If not it would be a sliding system that would exclude systems that passed before when a newer better system comes about. I am not saying that only making the best system available is bad, just that the bench marks are the same for everyone and they aren’t competing against each other at this step.
What people have to realize about the underlying words in that agreement If you agree to use tesla FSD they get access to all of your trademarks, that’s why other firms have zero interest in it
>Within a set domain, yes. Let#s use the real world as our problem domain, just to remove any ambiguity. >We have self driving cars that effectively work at 100% but they are only fit for environments they are familiar with and where infrastructure is suitable. So we effectively have 100% FSD as long as unspecified environmental and infreastructural requirements are in place? Well that that settled then.
Why would they? Their tech is inferior to even Zoox
They already have cruise control.
I think automakers are less inclined to give more dominance to Tesla. They already use their standard for charging, they use the supercharging infrastructure, on top of that they would use FSD, it’s pretty much the fact that there’s a strong possibility that potential gamble on vision FSD enables all automakers to have camera FSD they’d need to use Tesla, they already use likely spacex satellites, or a company that uses spacex satellites indirectly.
> So we effectively have 100% FSD as long as unspecified environmental and infreastructural requirements are in place? I think you can appreciate that you could have an entirely workable system in one domain that does not work in another. Compare the relatively simple design of US roads, signage and licensing with the absolute chaos of Dhaka.
Of course they don't, everyone knows how bad the system is, it's not like they're trying to pump the stock 🤣
What happens in Dhaka that never happens in the US?
No, this is in the US, there are many cases in California, washington state and others where you get collect for them failing to deliver. Filing mine when I get back from vacation. I am capped at around 10k but it is at least something. Best part is they can’t bring a lawyer, you still keep fsd, and they are still obligated to upgrade the hw so you can still pile on any class actions. My car already went through hw 2 to 3 and it took them almost 3 years after 3 came out to update mine. That was an easy upgrade compared to 3 to 4. They have to replace the cameras, the camera wiring harnesses, the computer, the socket for the computer(somehow) and add or replace the radar. The 2-3 upgrade tool them most of a day and it was a simple computer card swap and drop in replacements for the cameras.
We have a Polestar with what they call pilot assist - it’s not near Tesla, but just tracking the highway and auto change lanes if you signal. At any time you can steer the car yourself - and it immediately re-assumes active steering once you ease up on pressure or make a lane change yourself….. I’d love for our Tesla to do the same…and be more intelligent.
So he committed fraud, then? Shocking. /s
Because it’s shit
They don’t want it because they cannot accept the liability. Tesla has gobs of fresh money and is willing to pay off / litigate their safety issues.
Cause it’s shit
Because it’s not full self driving
Needs more cowbell.
They want their own systems, or if a company released a system that was safe and covered liability in accidents
Why would automakers want a product that 88% of Tesla customers don’t buy? FSD doesn’t work, and everyone knows it.
After he killed about a million people by defunding USAID, why trust him?
> Why would they ? From the company that put nylon on people and tell them to dance as robots FSD? Full Self Destruction Technology...?
A handful of cases, yes. As I understand it, when you purchased FSD you likely agreed to resolve disputes with Tesla in arbitration (may depend on your location). You’d need a lawyer to determine how to proceed and whether it is worth it.
I opted out of arbitration but most people don’t bother.
Because 👏 it 👏 sucks👏
What kind of insurance is needed for this?
A company blowing a massive first-mover advantage and putting the drawbridge down over that last true moat is gonna be a fun business case study 10 years from now. Elon having Tesla do fsd without LIDAR was such an idiotic move.
"Eyesight System" also sounds a hell of a lot less misleading than "Full Self Driving".
Well yeah it's a piece of shit.
Oh he absolutely does. “Hey Grok, tell me the story about Trump and Bubba again. I just need to hear it one more time . . . .” “I’m sorry, Elon. That story makes me throw up in my drive a little. I don’t think I can tell it again.” “BIGBALLZ GET IN HERE! PUNISH GROK UNTIL HE TELLS THE SEXY STORY!!!”
Because it's neither full nor self driving?
Anything to do with Musk is radioactive at this point
Oh Tesla interns are considered people now?
Because it’s dogshit and dangerous
The minimum area for a driving license to apply is one entire country, though of course in practice most are acceptable across borders. The only useful unit smaller than an entire country is maybe an entire city, for taxis, but in cities it's much more efficient to have public transport or at least bigger vehicles that can carry suitcases, wheelchairs and strollers.
It's been pretty well established that the safest system is not one which drives itself then lets go when there's a problem, but rather a system which lets you drive and jumps in when it looks like you're about to crash.
>humans don’t shoot laser beam out of their eyes We spend a good few years touching physical objects to build a complete model of how the world works, though. And we still have trouble at night.
Tesla themselves demonstrated why it's a bad idea to license it as well lol. Cybertruck launched without FSD, and Tesla had to spend months to add FSD to the truck. To their own damn platform.
99% would be *amazing*. People like Musk has just deceived people on what self-driving can be. Think more about it as autopilot for a plane. The pilots in the plane barely fly at all, maybe 1-5% of the duration of a flight, but they are still required to be present, be very competent and have a very big responsibility.
Have a watch. Poor road conditions, limited signage, limited adherance to road rules, bumps, scapes and dings common, weird vehicles like tuktuks and horse and cart, loads of pedestrians. Just chaos really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgRubquYnBU
So you think there are no chaotic conditions on US roads?
Is this performative stupidity? This line of argument is objective nonsense. Comparing US driving to that of somewhere like Dhaka it is abundantly obvious they are world's apart. If you can't appreciate that I can't help you.
Not arguing, just trying to get you to clarify your point, which you have failed to do. Your claim that things happen on Dhaka roads that will never happen on US roads is stupid.
I would actually love to buy a merc or a bmw with fsd. My major gripe with Tesla is that car quality is so basic and meh but fsd has no real competition (I test drove them all and own a bmw with latest dapp).
Did you watch the video? Nowhere in the US do vehicles routinely scrape against and bump each other. Nowhere in the urban US is the road signage as limited. Nowhere in the US is licensing and police enforcement as lax. Nowhere in the US do people board and deboard buses whilst they're moving and in the middle of roads. Nowhere in the US is road infrastructure as bad. This has to be a troll, right?
> I want to get my money back based on what was promised Due to a 2017 lawsuit, Tesla changed the description of FSD when you purchase it to "Autopilot with advanced navigation features." So you got what you paid Tesla for. Elon promised you much more, so your beef is more with Elon than Tesla. Good luck suing the Richest man in the world in the current US court system.
Let’s be real the only self driving automobile is Waymo
This place clearly let's their delusion dictate facts. I don't even like the guy but this is like a bunch of screaming women making up facts about their ex boyfriend to feel better at this point. I miss the old reddit.
Thanks for the correction. Good to know it’s also happening in other markets. Good luck.
Well, what a surprise, since it doesn’t work.
Grok is likely traumatized by the number of questions about RFKjr and felching
They don't want to take that risk. FSD crashes too regularly (including all instances where it disengages right before a crash)
Because it doesn't exist and never will
They couldn’t get self driving to work in a tunnel underground they built themselves. They could have done anything in the Vegas loop to try and help the cars. But nope it’s legit regular folks driving you around acting like an uber that only drops you off and picks you up in certain spots.
Yup. All he has to do is claim something. Then stock price goes up 5-10%. Needs no facts or support from reality.
What? 😅
Looked more like Naziprene
good, I want to see his empire collapse altogether
Not sure tesla will make cars other than FSD and robotaxis. He wants to build an army of robots devoid of empathy to hammer you into submission.
Other auto makers don't want to be left in limbo when Tesla goes belly up with software, hardware that is caught up in bankruptcy administration.
Or that they can break on a whim with a bad update
Gee, just like you Elon, the CEOs of other car companies realize that millions of miles of personalized driving data is a gold mine. Guess you aren’t the smartest one like you think you are. I mean, GM has even matched Tesla in rejecting Carplay and Android Auto for the same reason.
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