Other complementary articles with the same news: - [Elon Musk says Tesla has solved dry electrode battery manufacturing at scale](https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/elon-musk-says-tesla-has-solved-dry-electrode-battery-manufacturing-at-scale/) - [Musk Officially Announces Mass Production of Dry Electrode Technology: Is Tesla One Step Closer to Solid-State Batteries?](https://news.futunn.com/en/post/68261643/musk-officially-announces-mass-production-of-dry-electrode-technology-is)
This is just such big news. It's the promises from that 5 year old [Tesla battery presentation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds) about 4680 cells finally materializing (EDIT: Specifically [this exact timestamp](https://www.youtube.com/live/l6T9xIeZTds?si=SJeK7mfYem7fMR21&t=3196)!). I expect longer range and lifetime batteries for much cheaper manufacturing cost. I wonder if we'll finally be able to charge to the 'true' 100% (or near enough).
Will this matter when compared against emerging industry tech like solid state batteries? Feels like this might be a little late.
Just in time for them to have cancelled the only two models I was interested in.
Solid State isnt economical The labor and process time needed to make then is like 25-50x higher
You can still buy them, if you were that interested and you have not bought them in the past 10 years I'm not sure you were ever a customer
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If you are talking about the donut battery that's 99% surely a scam.
….how many are they producing?
It’s a shit show if you’re on Reddit. I take breaks dude and I’m not kidding your life will improve hahah.
I have a 2020 model X. I’m in the UK and they decided to stop making RHD model S and X several years ago. I’d hoped they would bring back RHD for the next refresh.
Those two models didn’t use the 4680 batteries anyway
Isn't it that way for almost all new tech though? It always starts out way more expensive until we figure out a better process for manufacturing.
Holding the bag as in your car?
lol
RHD high end and big carbmarket is just too small
Sounds like a troll comment. 1. S and X have been around for a long time. If you haven’t already bought it, it doesn’t seem like you were going to 2. This battery announcement didn’t apply to you anyway. S and X never had the 4680.
No on the 100%. This is a lithium based cell.
Reddit has broken your brain, my man. Tesla makes really great EVs despite the guy in charge.
Solid state is still years off, despite Toyota lying about it.
This is going to be used in the Y and CT - not the S and X, even if they weren't being cancelled.
Get off Reddit for a bit.
These are being made at Giga Austin. It has a high capacity line for these.
Zero innovation in the last 5 years at least. They were maybe state of the art technological back than. Still the same batteries, same loading curves, less features and no outsight something interesting is planned for people just wanting to have a decent car. I have 2 Teslas right now and I probably not going for a second round after end of life of them…
I wonder how people with those 4680 model Ys ever need a new battery what can they do
Yes, because it’s not massively produced yet. The first Android tablet cost 10.000$ to produce. Now you have them for 100 dollars.
*Surreptitiously steps away from angry, raging person*
You think battery makers should stop development of any non-solid state tech?
New technology often takes a very long time to reach massive scale.
S&X never even used the 2170’s:-)
Does this increase range
Toyota lies to keep people from buying EVs today.
My understanding is that the goal here is lower production costs. Solid state is about increased density but will have high initial production costs. There’s room for improvements at both ends of the market. The real competitor to Tesla’s cells is going to be LFP and LMR cells at the low cost end of the market. That’s assuming Tesla actually scales ip their cell production enough to have an effect on the market, which remains to be seen.
My understanding is that dry electrode is mostly a production cost and steps simplification that won’t move the needle much on energy density and range. Not sure on this, just what I remember the breakdown being back with the original Battery Day analysis. Cathode and anode materials may matter more.
I think they just wanted to post being upset about the model cancellations
Toyota can’t even figure out how to take ready made design and white label it as a Toyota product.
So when my ‘23 M3 Standard battery needs replacing, will the replacement be more affordable (than now) and have more range?
https://www.batterytechonline.com/trends/why-is-tesla-using-dry-battery-electrode-technology- Scroll to the bottom of this article for the potential benefits of DBE
This seems like steady progress since July 2024, when they announced the beginning of the validation process...which took over 18 months. Today, I think only Cybertruck uses 4680 in production (i.e., for-sale) vehicles, with Semi and Cybercab in pre-production testing. It seems like a lot of time went into Semi testing, but I wonder how valuable it really was since 2170 was used for much of that. Do they need to validate Semi all over again with this new 4680?
I believe that Toyota is the single most evil automaker. Emissions cheating ( [Toyota unit to settle emissions scandal for $1.6bn](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62666374l4o) ), they spread global warming denial ([Driving Denial: How Toyota’s Unholy Alliance with Climate Deniers Threatens Climate Progress - Public Citizen](https://www.citizen.org/article/driving-denial-how-toyotas-unholy-alliance-with-climate-deniers-threatens-climate-progress/)), and lobby against climate regulation.
Don't be a fool. No one is getting lifetime batteries. If they do, then Tesla will just go to a pure subscription or rental model so that they can keep the cash coming in.
Zero innovation? If you look past Reddit's hatred for Musk, Tesla, and specifically the Cybertruck, you can see how Tesla is still working on disruptive technologies. The 48V low-voltage system and steer-by-wire technologies are first in the industry, not to mention the comm over Ethernet, their aluminum casting, and stainless forming technologies they had to develop. To be fair some of them, like the tech for forming their stainless panels, is likely not going to be too useful in the future, but you can't honestly say they had zero innovation in the past 5 years.
They have innovated in efficiency greatly. Charging? Yeah it sucks, but it doesn't really add much more time to people's trips because of the efficiency of vehicles. Note Out of Spec's race across the US where the Model 3 beat everything other than the Taycan gen 2. They also have the best ADAS of any car in the world, amazing safety design (highest NCAP rating ever), and excellent reliability and cost of ownership in the current lineup. Even the Cybertruck was very innovative. It's unfortunate it became a monolith for politics and polarized people with its design, but it has really cool engineering in it, save for the batteries (which may be fixed with dry cathode).
Cost obviously moves the needle on range, they can just put more in.
There are still weight and volume constraints. To put more battery in a Model Y you have to increase the wheelbase or take away interior space.
Right, but how many. Is the charging or range better?
Correct: Dry cathode production lowers production space needed and overall costs (energy for drying cathode material i.e.). Mass production of solid state battery is - afaik - unsolved and may take many years as well. Maybe the learnings from this Tesla process might even be helpful.
That remains to be seen, and what you mean is capacity.
Juuust in time for it to not really matter... Solid variations are slowly creeping in, and so is natrium. And they just reduced their avaliable models, but I guess the robots need even more dense batteries?
Solid state batteries are still on B sample. Prototyping is easy.
Now get rid of Elon.
They can produce enough for the Y and CT on the line. We don't know yet on the charging and range. This change largely benefits Tesla in terms of cost structure for each cell.
It will take many years before solid state becomes cost effective enough that it permeates the market. Until then, Tesla can ride the wave of a high margin battery.
Why bother, it’s main business model isn’t dependent on this …
Shit i just read up on this and if true, the battery life will shoot through the roof.
I pushed the start button and my Cybertruck and it drove itself to where I wanted to go yesterday and parked itself, and drove itself back. The conditions on the roads here are brutal with snow piled up high and traffic down to one lane. There were 0 interventions while it was using FSD the whole time. I enjoyed the ride. Feel like they innovated at least a little bit in 5 years 🤷
I think Toyota said they got solid state done but haven’t heard anything in terms of their car having it. Dry cathnode is just as good and it’s suppose to be a super fast manufacturing process compared to what Tesla is doing now. Prolong battery life and more stable.
What about BYD Blade 2 battery? 4080 was promised years ago...
Your assumption is that the economy is a zero sum game where human progress doesn't translate into benefits for the humans. This assumption is obviously incorrect.
Sometime we do but not always, there is not always a pathway to commercialization for new tech. Its possible, probable even that solid state battery tech will never go mainstream
They've given us nothing on energy density. They're also not talking volume and failure rate, scrap rate... It's all happy talk until we get facts. Also, Volvo EX60 and BMW ix3 are being built and Tesla has nothing. Maximum efficiency, and to compete: A Luxury Model 3 Wagon AWD, air suspension, with a 400 mile battery. A model 3 would yield maximum range. But, what battery? Do they even have a supplier that can deliver a better battery. All we know is Musk lazy idiot postings on X, and he thinks he's "saving the world". Musk has been literal Toxic Poison in the EU to sales. The Volvo off-road shows how you build better derivatives for more profit. A Model Y, with air suspension and a better battery? Where? The Semi: First to announce, Last to Deliver, still not delivered.
What matters, I think, is if this patent is sufficient to defend against others copying the process. And if it allows cheaper manufacture. And if the batteries are at least as durable, safe, and dense as others. Beyond that, can they cut and paste the production lines? If all that comes true, then yes, this is a big thing. I think it's interesting that this comes out as people are realizing that their Lithium processing plant in Corpus Christi is now on line, so Tesla has secured supply of correctly processed Lithium, and the Semi factory is coming on line. And the Robocab is also likely to ramp.
Large scale and affordable point to point transportation isn't dependent on low cost batteries?
How about this recent news - "[A breakthough in solid-state battery materials: Chinese researchers unveil “breathable” silicon anode](https://carnewschina.com/2026/02/02/a-breakthough-in-solid-state-battery-materials-chinese-researchers-unveil-breathable-silicon-anode/)".
4080 has been in production for a couple years now. This is just a design revision of it. There are several other large format cells on the market. BMW uses some, as will Rivian in the R2. They are not solid state. Blade 2 is also not solid state.
Do you believe corporations more than since the days of Teddy Roosevelt are conspiring together on pricing and also engaging in designed or planned obsolescence to sell more products?
No. At any given price, the products we have access to today are vastly better than the products we had access to decades ago. This is because if a company intentionally makes a bad product, people can choose to buy from a different company that makes a better product. So the companies are incentivized to make the best products they can, otherwise they fail.
The larger form factor should improve energy density somewhat but going tabless will also improve energy efficiency from reduced resistance and that works in both directions (charging or discharging). Its an evolutionary improvement rather than revolutionary but from what I can tell there aren't any downsides only gravy. Still this would hardly be the first time Elon/Tesla has declared something "solved" and then years later its still nowhere to be found.
Transportation hasn’t been Tesla’s business model for a while now. AI and robotics is.
You think Cybercab isn't for transportation?
The first gen 4680 cells had both of those features (larger form factor and tabless design) but had a lower overall pack energy density when put into the Model Y. Tesla has made some improvements since then in the cells used in the Cybertruck, not sure how it compares at the pack level to the current Panasonic packs though. We should get an update once some Model Ys with 4680 cells start shipping again and someone tears down a pack.
Cybertruck while having some interesting ideas - is not available anywhere outside the land of the free. This technology should have been implemented into the model s,y,3 or x. Instead we get halfbaked refreshes in which they cancel already established features like trackmode, autosteer and so on. I was amazed when driving the model y first when it came out.
Blade 2 is LFP. Low energy density and worse performance/range in the cold. It’s cheap though so they can brute force the problem by just making huge batteries.
I’m just regurgitating the CEOs public commentary. Feel free to ask him.
Buddy, the AI is for the purpose of transportation. You know this, but you're playing dumb. The CEO has talked about Cybercab revolutionizing transportation many times.
Until solid state batteries are made to the scale these 4680 batteries are made at, probably not.
Aren't they still pushing hydrogen vehicles? A chemical that's even more dangerous and volatile than gasoline? Not to mention it's a gas and extremely difficult to keep it as a liquid
I quite literally don’t think you have a clue of what you’re talking about 🤣 r/confidentlyincorrect
It will matter because we're 10-15 years from mass produced SSB.
There are no bad products, only bad prices
Brand new battery design versus one that has been mature for a long time now. The gen 2 cybertruck cells have a slightly higher energy density compared to 2170 model Y's and I assume the new 4680's will modestly improve on that again
We are still years away from viable solid state, and even by then we will have the issue of initial cost of R&D to amortize before it can really be available to the masses.
That's all you can say because you know I'm right. Cybercab is obviously for transportation, and Elon talks about Cybercab all the time. I don't know who you think you're fooling.
I'm not sure if you're arguing against what I'm saying or for it.
No one, the focus of the company is robotics and AI (literally and intentionally not tied to transportation) - you’re just being… well… purely stupid. That or painfully ill informed. Either way r/confidentlyincorrect
Chunky is right this time.
Yes, and the AI is for transportation. They're making a self-driving AI for transportation, and cars that the AI runs on. I'm sure you understand that, but it seems like you're going for some sort of dunk that's failing hard because you got called out.
Yes.
So we have any idea what batteries the semi will use? I assume 2170's since it's at the Nevada gigafactory.
This is so dumb.
This actually makes a ton of sense now in the context of the model X/S cancellation. The MX/MS are the only two platforms in production or on the table that are not specifically built to support the 4680. The 4680 is 1.5cm taller and would not physically fit into the current pack dimensions standing upright without dropping the belly or reworking the floor of the car. Both things have serious design impacts and dropping the belly 1.5cm would likely be safety and clearance concern. I was first in line to say how stupid it was to cancel MX/MS without a product to replace them in the lineup, but if you extend the implications beyond freeing up the Freemont assembly space to include being able to pivot 18650 production into a more 4680 product, the economics look a lot less "Elon being Elon" and more a strategic shift in unifying around a single form factor for all cars (and presumably robots) going forward.
They just refreshed the semi, and right now it's unclear which batteries it is using. 4680 is strongly rumored and I think can be assumed based on earlier Tesla presentations about them.
Also [this.](https://www.autonews.com/toyota/an-toyota-akio-toyoda-maga-nascar-trump-japan-tariff-1116/) https://preview.redd.it/6d5nr6gqc4hg1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=a3fded670ddbd1d331df1d8060c5dbe2ca10138e
There are also significant chemical waste benefits by avoiding wet cathode products.
Isn’t the 4680 cell nickel only?
look up donut batteries. they claim they have them and will be available this year. zero proof of anything but that’s what they’re saying proudly at trade shows.
Is this AI slop? What is going on here?
Tesla makes money on your purchase, not on the hopes your car battery breaks down
Nice but let us have a little more specific. In this case which model Y's and are there any other performance gains. Here is the thing, if we can get a performance boost or cold weather behavior improvements, then this will be significant. If not yawn.
Late by any measure, it did take longer than expected. As far as emerging tech. solid state batteries are still a long ways off and nothing so far indicates cost competitiveness. Here are the positives, this apparently means Tesla now has the cheapest cells in the industry. This I'm fairly sure about and if they ramp production and get even more raw materials in country should be even cheaper in the future. So yeah a little late but versus Tesla original schedule but at the right time to impact the bottom line. This should help control CyberCab costs, and maybe even give Tesla a chance to lower prices on existing models. As for other technologies, like sodium and solid state, nothing is on the immediate horizon looks to compete with Lithium in autos. That can certainly change but I don't see a real advantage in the next couple of years. Beside that the dry process might be usable with these new possibilities.
If the batteries last forever, people won’t upgrade.
Plus they can still work on improving current cells. Tesla might be able to gain another 20% with lithium technologies. Besides that what they did to fix the dry process might be applicable to new chemistries.
Their entire business model is not predicated on you upgrading.
That’s funny. They sure seem to offer me a lot of incentives to
None of this info has measurable data. But, we'll see in the real world, eventually.
The Cumming's Diesel repairs on YouTube yeah, point to a 5 year time issue, just out of warranty. And Ford now has micro filters for their V8 engines, which can be upgraded with an after market kit. But, as Tesla is short on service centers, so far, it's not playing. Looking at the diesel and V8 repair video's, it's got to be the dumbest most expensive product you can buy.
They literally don’t. Their trade in values are less than market and the incentives are done at the end of quarters to push sales in general
I am not saying other companies don’t do the same. I think Tesla at one point really wanted to make cars that would last. More and more it appears that they have decided that isn’t good for business
The battery technology that I want to see is the improvement of longevity and allowing charging to be normalized at 90% as listed in the article below. Any improvement to how lithium technology can allow for a higher state of charge is a win. [https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/3079/teslas-new-lithium-battery-will-increase-longevity-and-allow-charging-to-90](https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/3079/teslas-new-lithium-battery-will-increase-longevity-and-allow-charging-to-90)
I really think this confirms the X/S “closing for robots” is actually just closing to do a major refresh with no cells and new architecture. Elon has lied about this kind of thing before
Maybe they’re secretly not canceling and will reboot with new cells/architecture
They will 100% be vaporware
maybe, maybe not.
This no longer matters since Tesla is now a robot manufacturer and will start mass production soon.
Just in time for a new better battery technology to come out. I really hope lithium is on the way out in the next 5-10 years.
They need these for the robots ?
Another informed Reddit comment Jesus
Consumer Reports have them as recommended. So, for now, they're good buys, but, in the future...?
What makes you think Tesla's cars are less reliable today than they were in the past? If anything, the opposite is likely true.
Aren’t they switching to CATL batteries for lower end? They announced they purchased the tech from them. LFP batteries are cheaper than LMR batteries even with dry cathode. That’s until sodium batteries start becoming mainstream. Cylinder cells are dead any way. All the new tech will be prismatic cells. Solids state for high end and sodium for budget models.
Per their earnings report they have 7 GWh of annual LFP capacity in the US, vs 40 GWh for their 4680 cells. Those are theoretical capacity not actual production rate. Giga Nevada is around 37 GWh of 2170 cells.
Hydrogen was a stop gap to appease international agreements. It's a horrible energy source as it requires significant energy to separate it in the first place. It has never been viable.
Yeah pretty much just lists every conceivable way a battery could be better. Regardless if Tesla succeeds it will teach people ways to do something and will result in a benefit for humanity at some point though so it’s not to say it shouldn’t be done. We need more companies risking money to find a better way otherwise how else do we get there?
That’s not what is keeping people from buying EVs.
Because the market wants their hybrids and the margins are good on those cars, and not good on EVs.
The trade in values are low because the cars are don’t hold value because the market accurately prices in reliability and obsolescence.
Would be nice but I’m not betting a penny on them right now
Not Elon, so nobody cares.
It's still being pushed by utilities to blend into natural gas pipelines, which is a rather blatant attempt at trying to pull extra funding for greenwashing given that the bulk of hydrogen is produced today from methane reformation. It's far from dead unfortunately even aside from cars.
I think that is the plan. Car ownership will be like owning a horse is today. You will pay a subscription and summon a vehicle when you need it, return it to the fleet when you don’t.
Sodium batteries are the real up and coming tech.
Curious if this is the same "solved" as like they have "solved' unsupervised FSD? A few Elonstans youtube channels said they have done that, which not from what I can tell.
the CEO, Marko Lehtimäki, claimed 8 months ago to have created [the first true artificial intelligence, Asinoid](https://www.linkedin.com/posts/youngkasi_today-is-a-big-day-were-finally-unveiling-activity-7328693813185503232-VgX1/).
Saving this image to troll moral circlejerkers on Reddit who think their Corolla is more holy than a Tesla.
Model Y Performance Adaptive Suspension System
sure sure
That’s absolutely just bullshit. I’ve already done the process of getting a quote from Tesla and taking to a regular dealership, the price difference is a few thousand. Tesla provides a fast and easy trade in at the cost of them getting a better margin.
Yea, microwaves in the 80s were solid, but cost near 500+$. Now you get the same power and reasonable quality for not even 150$ and in 1980s dollars, that's even 75$.
God I hope not. (but probably not what they are promising)
Well they won't in the future, that's certain.
Same here, I really, really hope it's genuine and they have a working solid state battery.... But... They are sketchy as all hell with the details/tech specs and promo video(s).
I believe it’s the same FSD upgraded features in the other models as long as they’re running HW4 or later.
Even solid state needs anodes and cathodes. So yes: this applies. The dry process is the removal of a solvent. Ordinarily this solvent needs to be removed afterwards via baking (which is an expensive and energy intensive operation and also requires a large factory footprint) (Also note that there aren't any solid state batteries in production or even pre-production. What is marketed as 'solid state' is just semi-solid state. It still has an electrolyte. It's just not liquid but a gel)
So he’s Elon level stupid; who cares?
The assumption of competition is falling apart under more and more monopolized and consolidated markets. This is not going to keep happening unless companies end up getting broken up.
Not true. Consolidation is a very good thing for the consumer. The consumer is much better off with Walmart and Target than they were back when there were a million different general stores. As long as there are at least two players in a market, margins get compressed. And consolidation boosts scale, which makes things cheaper and/or better.
You're contradicting yourself. Where's the competition if there's consolidation? Fewer and fewer players also makes it easier for collusion for price fixing, which has happened across industries and even countries.
No, it's not a contradiction. There's still competition even if there's major consolidation. Just because many stores died to make room for Walmart and Target doesn't mean Walmart and Target don't compete. And the competition is fierce, resulting in very low prices for the consumer relative to the input costs.
If you haven’t noticed, more and more, especially with the benefit of AI, these companies aren’t actually competing against one another. They are happy to basically keep the same market share and mutually let prices rise.
Solid state batteries aren’t even used in smart watches yet, let alone smartphones/tablets/laptops. Dry electrodes mean radically simplified / lower cost production lines producing (all else being equal in terms of chemistry and battery format) higher density , faster charging, higher cycle life batteries.
so these cells will have less binder material in them as part of this new process. So yes it does leave gap to substitute with more materials to increase energy density, and hence range i guess.
So an LFP battery.
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