Elon Musk says the honest answer is that Tesla will have to upgrade HW3 vehicles for those that have bought FSD.

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Does anybody know if this would apply to buying a used Tesla with FSD included? Or only the original owner?

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It likely would include all owners that have a fully purchased FSD on their HW3 car - original or not. Subscriptions likely will not count[ per Sawyer](https://x.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1884744806968025496): "This means that for the Tesla owners with HW3 that only subscribe monthly to FSD, those owners will not be getting a free upgrade."

Additional Elon context: "That's going to be painful and difficult, but we'll get it done. Now I'm kinda glad that not that many people bought the FSD package haha."

Lmao at him saying in like 2015 that the car had all hardware required for full self driving.

Best $6,000 I spent in 2019, lol

Yea it really sucks

I mean I think a paid upgrade is fair, I wouldn’t expect subscribers to have to get any upgrades for free, they aren’t entitled to it.

he should have just said that at first. people get annoyed but leaving them in limbo is just dumb and going back and forward

“Some of you may have to pay a lot, but that’s a sacrifice I am willing to make” 😉

Where is the source of elon actually saying this? Not just this sawyer guy saying he said it.

So ... I might have time to switch from subscription to paid version. (2018 M3 customer with EAP at time of purchase, got a freebie upgrade from HW2.5 to 3, so FSD full upgrade for me is now a $2,000 purchase)

Elon said stated this during the earning call this evening

Earnings call today

earnings call

What about subscription customers that paid to upgrade from HW2/2.5 to HW3? Are they really gonna ask them to pay again?

From how he worded it, it sounds like it only applies to HW3 FSD owners who ‘bought it’ outright. Primarily the “now I’m kinda glad not many people bought it back then”.

You're upset you're locked out of updates because you didn't pay for them?

Don't have to upgrade hardware for FSD since it won't work for a long long long time.

I caught it at 2k at some point (I already had autopilot tier). DEFINITELY saved a ton.

Elon says lots of things.

Don’t upgrade. By the time FSD is actually ready it’ll be time for a new car anyway. Don’t trust him, he lies about everything. Who the hell is the guy in the thumbnail?

It was Q4, 2016, but he also said at the time the computation board may need to be upgraded.

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Yup, I did the same. $2000 got me FSD and HW2.5 -> HW3 upgrade.

??? I'm confused, you didn't pay for the FSD purchase so you won't get any updates which makes sense... Everyone else paid $6000-12000 for FSD depending how early they bought their FSD package.

Once they develop a HW3 -> AI4 or AI5 upgrade, likely that will become available to those without having purchased FSD. After all, they want that sweet, sweet recurring revenue.

We were told our vehicles could run FSD and there is the option to subscribe for $99 per month or whatever but now we are being told we cannot use it as a monthly subscription, only those fools who paid the $8000+ will get upgraded.

Or trade up

6000-15000* actually. Cause I was the fool that thought it would go up in price :(

And by saved a ton, you mean wasted, right?

$6000 in 2019 is just $7500 today. FSD today is $8000 so you are only up by $500 Also that is assuming that you do not go out and sell your car before they roll out the upgrade. I'm giving the HW3->AI4 upgrade AT LEAST two years, but more realistically between 5-10 years. Tesla is going to take their time and drag this as long as possible. They do not have any incentive or deadline to do so.

Yeah I'm losing track of how much FSD cost lol. I bought EAP in 2019 and then paid for FSD as an upgrade to EAP

He’s saying if you already purchased FSD as a software package then they will have to upgrade your car at no additional cost because they aren’t able to deliver on that promise without it. I purchased FSD when it was “cheap” before they started raising the prices. I’ve gotten the FSD computer upgraded from 2 -> 3 and the cameras upgraded from black & red to full color at no cost on my 2017 Model S. Looks like I’ll be getting the upgrade to HW4 too at some point.

How much did you have to pay for the HW3 computer?

Oh yeah, I'm sure my ~2015~ (whoops, 2016) Model S would only need the computer upgraded for FSD 😂 EDIT: My VIN was assigned in November 2016, my bad.

I don’t think the car features said it will run FSD, buying the FSD package used to state all the time “free updates until full self driving is achieved”.

https://x.com/teslascope/status/1884755083100831909

I would definitely buy FSD for just $2000. That's a great deal, despite the fact I literally manually drive my Teslas 95% of the time. Auto lane changes to highway driving in addition to lane keeping is worth that even though I don't use FSD in city.

For the full audio fast forward to 45:50 into the call today: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gub5qCTutZo

Will a 2017 Model X even be eligible to upgrade to HW4? It currently has MCU 2 and HW3.

Now imagine buying it for $8000 back when Tesla stock was worth $20 per share (today's shares) and still not having anything functional as what was described in the original FSD release with hands-off coast to coast driving :) Oh, thats me.

HW3 can still run FSD v12.6. I don't think Tesla ever promised that every HW3 can run every future version of FSD.

I doubt it's too late, it's not like your average joe is paying attention to these earning reports

You can stop paying anytime. You get to choose of the features available today are worth the cost. Just because you can't afford FSD doesn't make people who can fools. They paid in full and can't cancel. They paid for FSD which Tesla is willing to honor.

Now we look back and see that it would've turned into $100-200k if invested in Tesla stock and wonder..

2015 Model S was not based on the same architecture at all... that was AP1, for which FSD was never promised.

Hoping it's so difficult they just decide to swap out the whole car, then resell the old HW3 cars as "not FSD compatible."

Well, if they take long enough then we won't even have our cars anymore. Mine is going on 7 years soon and nearly 100k miles, about 13-14% degradation on the battery and almost out of warranty. I did start with HW 2.5 and was upgraded to HW3 several years back.

HW2.5 Was promised FSD and they upgraded us to 3 for free. I have no doubt they'll keep that promise a second time. I would love for my Plaid to get upgraded to something I paid for.

lol yes

My wife and I have talked and we're gonna drive the car into the ground. Frankly, if they *can* achieve unsupervised FSD with it, then we'll save money aitting on the car, because we can turn it into a family taxi for the kids. But that's a long term outlook

FSD level 2 to 5 would be quite a jump .. another 3 years probably- better to wait for another refresh .. lidar will be back in play as Tesla cannot solve the low sun issue, as it paralysis the camera

I was one of the ones that got lucky with a free upgrade but I believe it was priced around $1000. It would suck for people who bought the "Full Self Driving Computer Upgrade" as advertised only for it to not actually be a full self driving computer

With this admission can I get a discount on my FSD subscription?

Yup. Next announcing HW4 wont be enough, but HW5 will be it. Really.

It’ll be free.

Yep. Exactly. Was going to respond, but you said it perfectly. At 2k, it was too good to pass up, even if Level 5 never happens.

Same, I paid $3000 for FSD after paying $5000 for EAP, which is now free. Didn’t really save much, but I could’ve spent $12,000…

August 2018 here, still intend to keep mine till summer 2026 and then decide. I may swap to a TMY then or to another brand pending what is available and the state of FSD. I find FSD fascinating and honestly would love one day to see the promise fully fulfilled. What it does already impresses me. Quite a bit of my sticking with Tesla will come down to them actually making the upgrade to my car as that would indicate they stand behind the product. edit - bad not removed - meant to communicate what fsd does actually impress me.

Hey Elon. Here’s an idea. Offer to transfer FSD for anyone who has HW3 to any HW4 vehicle purchase. Helps sell new cars and reduces the number of upgrades needed.

Rip, I've been paying monthly like a dummy

It’s not gonna be that simple. This can turn into a huge lawsuit for them for HW3 owners

$6,000 in TSLA in 2019 is $100,000 today.

Yeah that is like Apple guaranteeing your iPhone 1 will get iOS updates forever

It's obvious you haven't tried FSD 13 in HW4.

I regret not buying it when it was $4k in 2019 but just got a new Y so unaffected

EAP is not free, they just don’t sell it anymore. The only way to get those features is to buy FSD

Sawyer is more credible than your average x user lol

Ok, I guess I meant basic autopilot features are now standard, which used to cost $5000 back around 2018.

We’ll see…

I mean, yeah sure, you're going to hold on to the car. But would you remain patient if after 5 years Tesla still has not upgraded your car to HW4? What about after 10 years? Did you really get your money's worth with a promise that was never fulfilled for so long?

Same, June 2017 S - I’m curious what the “more affordable” options look like, as I really just need a commuter car like the 3 and it doesn’t even need to be that big or nice, but if it has FSD that allows me to take my eyes off the road, that’s all I need.

If he just didn't make those promises he wouldn't be in such a stupid position

The claim was cars produced from 2016 on though

What hardware version is the new Model Y?

I’m guessing this will be the most logical solution, I just don’t see them spending the engineering time and effort to retrofit all these cars.

On the earnings call. What were you doing on earnings day at 5:30 p.m. aside from listening to the earnings call?

I'm not expecting HW4. More like HW3.5. And yes, I feel as thought I've gotten my money's worth. My wife drives the car now. She was messing with her radio the other day and FSD navigated around an errant garbage bag that was in the middle of the road that she didn't see for drinking with radio. So, if FSD is keeping my wife safe in a Supercised state, then it was worth it

It was said on the earnings call.

Musk has said it will be

Hardware 2.5 can do FSD update with subscription, but there is a separate cost for the HW3 computer

Nobody truly has any idea. Yet another difference for the VERY legacy S/X is that there is no interior camera AND the HW3 computer is air cooled vs liquid cooled like the 3/Y (and I assume current S/X/Cybertruck, but I could be wrong about that). Do we really think Tesla is going to spend the engineering time and effort to design and build a retrofit HW4 air cooled chip for the ~50-60k cars that were built during this period that ALSO paid for FSD? My guy says no.

If only that was a guarantee. If only…

He said it? Oh you sweet child...

They retrofit a new car around it but keep the old Atom MCU

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This have this promo all the time.

Yep, MCU1 FSD owner here. A few more years and all the legacy S and X owners will drop out. What's the deal with used vehicles? If you sell your car, FSD goes with it so the new buyer inherits the upgrade, correct? If you trade in at Tesla, do they credit you the market price of FSD? I feel they should...even if they remove it to resell cheaper--you still bought it.

Just offer $10k extra on a trade in to free fsd

I have the HW3 computer, I paid to upgrade my 2018 Model 3, this tweet is saying they will have to upgrade HW3 to HW4 in order to have FSD which means all new cameras and I assume a reconfigured computer as I’ve heard the HW4 computer will not fit in the same spot as HW3

Sorry, I got it wrong by a year, my VIN was assigned in November 2016 😎

Just to do at scale is the difficult part. Otherwise it’s computer guts and camera bits. That’s a ton of labor $

Are you crazy? It's not only about the money people through at FSD. It's about the value of the car and driving experience once it reaches autonomous driving. Most of the people that bought teslas did so with the expectation in a promised technology from the CEO. I'd be furious if I bought a tesla thinking it was a good deal for me, say back in 2020, due to full self driving being promised in the near future. No one owning a tesla today bought the car excited that full self driving might* be a possibility in the last half or third of their ownership, which is the reality today. This is false advertising, plain and simple. And we are assuming that FSD will even come soon...

But these cars were still being sold brand new less than 18 months ago so it is kind of different

I hear ya. Thinking of keeping mine till wheels fall off (unless they offer FSD xfer with FUS xfer again)

You act like FSD 12.6 has the features promised ten years ago to the OG Model S owners who bought ‘FSD’; I gave up on Elon ever fulfilling his promise and am very happy with my decision to not pay up front for FSD, this car will be in the dump before it will be capable of driving FSD without frequent interruptions

Could be simpler to offer discount on new vehicles . I bet many would go for a 10k discount and FSD transfer . Costly but would do wonders for loyalty.

Under your idea, I would pay for a new car and get FSD for free? I would rather keep my old car and get a free HW4 upgrade.

God there's so much on the horizon as far as competition, I really hope all of these companies are able to deliver through 26-28. Rivian, Scout etc have such interesting options.

I think Tesla needs to put some sort of obvious “auto-driving” indicator on their cars. The main reason I don’t use it is it’s embarrassing that other cars think I’m driving like a grandma. When I took Waymo, it’s obvious to everybody that I’m just a passenger, and not to take their road rage out on me.

I don’t think it works that way. I think they will only honor the upgrade if you are the original FSD purchaser.

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Or maybe they will leapfrog and design HW5 in a way that is easy to retrofit.

It’s literally still the same car you bought… if you didn’t buy FSD then you will have no difference in driving it.

AI4. AI5 is rumored for the end of this year last time I checked.

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If you buy it 10 years ago, you should have the expectation that it will take very long to get something meaningful. Also 10 years it's not even HW3. If you read Elon literally, and you will just lose your confidence because if are assuming he is the god and do whatever he promised at the timeline he said

Doesn’t seem feasible or right in instances where someone’s car is less than 2 years old

I'm one of these! Bought my Model Y with the FSD package. We'll see how long it takes them to actually achieve FSD but I honestly expect they will offer trade in with discount. I cannot see them retrofitting old models.

I wonder if the upgrade is going to be to Ai4 or Ai5

Then I’d say Tesla should be willing to upgrade your hardware if you give them $8,000 but shits not always fair. I’m curious how much each computer etc costs them to upgrade vs you giving them $8k for a service that costs them nothing additional to download to your car. Even if they only net $1,000-$2,000 from those instances you’d think it would be better than them getting nothing from you. But what I think people are complaining about is “well what if I want to just subscribe for a month?!” And I think that is a ridiculous expectation for them to outfit your car with new hardware for $100. Subscription could also just not be an option- would they rather that be the case so it’s $8k or nothing?

Its really pretty wild he got away with this. Like a lot of people spent a lot of money for a product that was never delivered. Seems like a slam dunk class action lawsuit...

Oh My God, that’s…..Jason Bourne. Not really, that’s the guy on twitter that posted it.

Have a link?

Now the question is how soon?

I’d imagine the goal will be to incentivize as many HW3 owners who paid for FSD to purchase a HW4 vehicle over the next year or so. Then they only have to upgrade the few remaining stragglers.

Pretty sure by the time it actually comes out barely any of those vehicles will be left. Its been coming in this year for 9 years.

Same

I won't just upgrade the hardware on my iphone 5.

I'm really interested if they will take that position, and if it will be tested in court if they do. I don't recall FSD being tied to your ownership of the car (like the current free supercharging promo is), and you can't bring it with you to a new car on demand. It's factored into the price when you sell it used and the new buyer gets the function. And Elon's on record saying Tesla should pay for FSD when they take a trade-in on a car with it...

In addition to the upgrade, FSD for HW3 should be half the cost for subscribers lol

Also the people who believed him

So this is my predicament. I purchased a Used Inventory Model 3 from Tesla directly in Oct 2023. There were cheaper ones with no FSD, and mine more expensive but with FSD. I really would like to know Tesla’s official stance on if I fall in the category of “yup, FSD purchased so he qualifies for the free upgrade”. So I didn’t spend the $12k on it specifically, but did make sure to purchase a car from them that had it. On the purchase invoice it is itemized, shows FSD Capability as a line item, but each line does not have a price, it just shows 1 total number of $34,400 vehicle price at the bottom.

I bought a used inventory 2022 M3 with FSD, specifically for FSD. I paid an extra $2900 for FSD. It was not free with the car. Either FSD is a feature on the car (Tesla's position on the matter)... or it's a software license bound to a given individual owner. If it were the latter, then only those individual owners with the license would be eligible for the hardware upgrade. However, FSD is part of the car. Whoever bought the car, bought FSD. The car with the purchased (non-subscribed) FSD installed needs to receive the hardware upgrade, regardless of whether or not the individual owner was the original owner... because FSD is bound to the car, and not to the owner. Another way to phrase this: is it reasonable to assume that _only_ the original purchaser had the expectation that FSD will be fully autonomous, as promised?

Exactly! Also, I'm not going to bite and accept that HW4 is going to achieve autonomy. I mean yeah, HW4 could be the version that hits Level 3 autonomy, but I'll only believe it when I see it. Only then will I consider buying FSD. A wise man once said: >Never buy a new piece of tech based on the promise of future software updates.

Early adopter here (2016), they have upgraded my car several times to enable FSD which I purchased with the vehicle.

What makes you say that? Those cars stabilize around 13-15% degradation and will hold that for hundreds of thousands of miles. I had a 10 year old S with 230k miles. 13% degradation 🤷‍♂️

Nope

They promised it would eventually be able to work “unsupervised.” Unlikely that v12 will be able to achieve that

Timecode link: [https://www.youtube.com/live/Gub5qCTutZo?si=8Q468KQFVKcGrRU8&t=2750](https://www.youtube.com/live/Gub5qCTutZo?si=8Q468KQFVKcGrRU8&t=2750)

They’ll get sued for that. There’s already been successful litigation on HW2.5. It’s too much money for a lot of class actions to come up if they reneg

Would he be more wealthy or less wealthy if he hasn't been promising FSD hardware to anyone who bought for the last 8 years or however long it has been.

I don’t see how anyone should expect to get 2 computer upgrades for free for anything, let alone a car

No offense but definitely a fool

June 2018 Model 3 LR RWD. Earlier this month, I gave the car to my nephew, as I upgraded to a Highland performance. I paid for FSD during the fire sale. So if tesla will upgrade the car to HW4, that sounds great. But I wonder if there is a caveat... Like only applies to the original buyer of the car, or something like that.

How were these not designed to slot in an upgraded computer?!

Unsupervised is yet arrived, so you cannot land on this conclusion

Elon is the CEO of Tesla. Anything he says on Twitter regarding Tesla is official. A blog post is not any more or any less official than the CEO’s own words.

Silver lining is that this may highly incentivize Tesla to create some kind of significant discount or FSD carry over into new vehicles - in lieu of fully replacing hardware. Assuming Musk "does the right thing" for consumers... for which I am not holding my breath.

I'm looking forward to making him honor his word on this.

And you’d still have to buy a new car to get the thing you may have been promised ten years ago.

You are dreaming - they will just prolong any upgrades long enough that no one is left with HW3 cars on the road. In the meantime, they will offer free FSD transfers if you trade in your old one and buy a new car.

Doesn't have to be an "only option" - but if it's created as an incentive for buyers in lieu of new HW4, it could create a win win in the majority of cases. Some still can and will just replace earlier hardware, but done right this can create new sales for those whose cars are aging out anyway. This is probably the only thing that would get me to buy a new/another Tesla.

They need to give a timeline for AI3 users who paid I have a 2018 3P with 45k miles on it. It looks like a brand new car I’ll be needing the upgrade and would like it asap honestly.

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They have been doing this to juice sales already. But they should just make it available anytime you want instead of being restricted to special sales incentives during specific periods.

Honestly, that’s Musk’s way out. Offer FSD transfers for buyers who were promised real FSD from the older models to the newer ones, then deny the buyers of the older models FSD purchase’s as it’s not supported on those MCUs. A new buyer of the older models MCUs were never promised FSD.

Didn't they have to make 2.5>3 upgrade free because they got sued for false advertising? I would assume that sets a president for 3>4 since it was promised any car after 2016 is capable.

I'm thinking about buying a used 2022/2023. As a newbie to teslas, how does this affect me?

They were promised real FSD and got beta software.

FSD is driven forward by Elon though. The reason it is vision only is cause Elon made it so (also lack of sensor availability during Covid forcing it). To disconnect Elon from FSD is just to ignore reality, he is way more intertwined with its success than you seem to let on and his comments as CEO should* be able to be trusted. It’s the same comment that could have been made five years ago, I’m not going to act like this is new, the newest tweet is just Elons newest way of pushing the buck further down the road.

There's definitely some good options for EVs, but what I'm really hoping for is some competition in the ADAS space. People keep saying others are catching up, but most are barely at autopilot level... And no one is offering anything I can buy for city streets.

Early 2017 S MCU1 owner here. I bought FSD long ago and have gotten multiple upgrades over the years. Finally, finally got the FSD features (12.3, think) a few months ago and it was a downgrade in most ways from AP, at least in terms of the delta between what it promises and what it actually delivers. Still useful on the highway at least which matters a lot to me. I intend to keep my car as long as possible. Fully intend to get that new hardware.

Im sure they will get that done sometime around the release of the new tesla roadster, with jumping air rockets, and 620 mile range.

“Fire sale”?

Sorry about that, I realized I actually had a 2016.

Yeah, there was a short window when they sold FSD for $2000.

Not really for free. We paid between 3 and 15 thousand for FSD. For that the only thing that Tesla did was take our money and flip a switch in the car's software. They got the benefit of the money for years. By the time they get FSD being true FSD (instead of level 2) they will have made enough money on the interest of what we paid to be able to install the updated single board HW4 computers.

Oh wow even without having EAP ? That’s great! At that price it’s definitely worth it!

Oh, right you had to have EAP already.

Yeah, it’ll “get done” on Elon-time which is 10 years from now when HW3 vehicles are in the junkyard. This means absolutely nothing.

What? Richest man on earth? Lol

Because I paid $15k for the promise of have full self driving at the end of 2019.

Equivalent of using BTC to pay for Domino’s Pizza back in 2011

How do I know what HW I have? Assume HW3 with a 2018 Model 3 (early 10k vin).

I mean this is a crappy position for Tesla to be in

My case may be an edge case, but I only have about 32k miles on my 2019, so I won’t need to buy a new one anytime soon

Yep, you bought a car with FSD, I would hope you are definitely included.

Tesla misled consumers saying that we would have fsd within a few years and so far it is unusable for any real driving

I suspect they won't upgrade to version 4. The HW4 hardware is not backwards compatible with version 3. So they will have to design HW5 to be backwards compatible with 3 and 4. Which is probably why he thinks its going to be a nightmare. They are probably going to have to design two different versions. Which begs the questions...why did they change the form factor of HW4?

I wouldn't have bought FSD back then if he never said that though.

Because those people paid up to $15k with the promise that the car would be upgraded if it needed to be!

Ohhh. I think that’s still going!

20 Oct 2016 https://web.archive.org/web/20161213042716/tesla.com/autopilot oof "Tesla’s Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016"

There are two situations to disambiguate: 1. Used car bought from private party. FSD travels with the car. The seller sells it for a higher cost because it includes FSD, the buyer pays a higher cost to get it, Tesla is not involved. They should be obligated to upgrade that car, no matter who owns it. 2. Used car purchased from Tesla industry. This a bit more complex. Regardless of whether the car had FSD with the original purchaser, Tesla can choose whether to sell it as an FSD or a non-FSD car to the next buyer, because they own the stack and can disable it or enable it at will. The only real question is whether the original owner got paid by Tesla for the value of FSD on trade-in, because they absolutely should be. Once that's done, it's up to Tesla what to do with the car. And if they sell it as an FSD-enabled car to the next buyer, then that car should be obligated to get the HW4 upgrade as well. That's my take, and I'm stickin' with it!

>Most of the people that bought teslas did so with the expectation in a promised technology from the CEO. This is just a made up fact you're basing an argument on. Data suggests otherwise as the vast majority of buyers did not get FSD with their car as noted on the call. This shows they didn't commit to the sales pitch if future FSD. Those of us that bought the package and therefore the promises, are being told we'll get what we were promised. Those that were cheap and are waiting to buy FSD, don't have and won't get FSD without paying for it. There's no free lunch here. Meanwhile Tesla has added thousands in free upgrades in the years I've owned the cars with software they had no obligation producing.

Oh FFS. Promises are for children, purchase contracts are for adults. Show where in the purchase contract it says you were promised "real" FSD. Truth is, you got what you paid for, which is the tech that was available at that time. I just bought a new 2025 Highland Model 3. I have no expectation that I'll get AI5 for free or that I'll be able to use FSD in the iteration that is available 5 years from now.

If you never paid for fsd or the upgrade, you have hw2.5. But you can check in the software section of settings

Doesn’t matter. The cars won’t be on the road by the time unsupervised FSD is a reality

Yeah I didn’t mean reneg, just an option. I can’t imagine retrofit will be cheap for Tesla given it’s likely not just the FSD computer . Either way , it’s good to see they’re considering it.

Free FSD beta (with subscription)

It said “Available end of 2019” next to the checkbox of Buy Full Self Driving when they took my money. I didn’t go off an Elon tweet. So companies can renege on any type of deferred value even when explicitly listed at POS?

Your going to be looking a long time

I paid for full fsd when Elon had his fire sale in 2019. But noted in checking at software section. Thank you!

I had HW2 and they upgraded me to HW3 back when, and I'm not the original buyer. You're fine, I'm sure.

Mine on hurry profile is a straight @$$hole. Left lane camping, overtaking every car in it's way, cutting people off. I don't know to be proud or scared at times.

He's unofficially the Tesla PR on Twitter.

They changed that page and the one with the "paint it black" song is missing...

Here's the transcript: https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2025/01/29/tesla-tsla-q4-2024-earnings-call-transcript/#:~:text=I%20mean%2C%20I%20think%20the,people%20bought%20the%20FSD%20package. ctrl f "fsd package"

Sounds like my wife may be behind the controls

The legal system is likely to (eventually) force them to stand behind the product. Musk would drag this out forever if he could.

At this point, I’m keeping my 2018 in protest. MF will be sitting on bricks on my front yard and I’ll still be owed an upgrade.

june 2018 here rip.

Low sun, but also darkness. Any time I’m driving through an unlit country road before the sun is out, I get errors from my side cameras that “might be blocked”. No, it’s just fucking dark out. That’s a thing that happens.

I had battery fail after 26k miles on 2019 Model X. They replaced battery that only charged to 223 miles at 80 percent when I was getting 268 at 80 percent charge. Tesla service says it will adjust over time but it hasn’t. Now they tell me it’s the cold weather keeping battery from bouncing back to what it should be. Does anyone have experience with the batteries after replacement? Did I just loose a huge amount of charge with a bad replacement? Will Tesla fix it or do I need to lawyer up?

June 2025 apparently

How does it make this crowd feel that he's not only been lying to you for years, but also putting your lives at risk as a test crash dummy for a feature he can't safely deliver?

Just cancelled after 2 months. Guess I’m lucky. It was okay, but it’s winter and the camera is blinded to and from work most days anyways.

Oh, cool. So because I was waiting to purchase it until it actually functioned as promised, my 2023 M3 won't be able to use FSD, which was a big reason why I purchased a Tesla in the first place. What a fucking scumbag.

Offer full refund of FSD to HW3 owners. For people that trading in HW3 for another Tesla, free FSD.

> If you read Elon literally Another way of saying that is "if you trusted Elon" or "if you actually believed Elon" or "Elon said it was going to be one thing and you bought it, but he didn't deliver on it and I think that's kinda on you bro, because Elon just kinda says stuff whenever his companies need money"

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Why wouldn’t they have to upgrade everyone? The were told their cars would be able to get FSD later. Not just the people who bought it before it was ready.

I understand your sentiment (also have a 2018 model). But your strategy won’t work - they will just say your car has too many faults and requires thousands of dollars of out of warranty repairs before they can install the new HW4 components. So either way they’re going to get money out of you.

My 2018 still doesn't have any FSD computer. I guess I'll wait as long as possible until it's actually worth using. Maybe I'll get the latest hardware if they can figure it out.

Well look how much everyone loves the service centers right now....Wonder how much goes into updgrading, any idea or cost / time to do it?

Why on earth would you buy another Tesla ?

It was fall 2014, when ap1 was announced, that he said that within 2 years you'd be able to summon your tesla from anywhere in the county connected by roads. Which is, essentially, unsupervised FSD. Still waiting....

3.5

Will there be a lawsuit against Elon for over promising readiness of FSD?

You've had FSD the entire time, your car would drive on its own whenever you asked it to. What you're really concerned about is the version and capability, right? How many versions forward do you expect to get out of your car's hardware capabilities?

I spent 100BTC on my Usenet subscription back in 2011. It happens.

I pay for the subscription but am still on an older version of FSD, is that why I can’t update? Because I didn’t purchase it outright? I bought a used ‘22 with HW3

Well said

I'm about to hit 8 years on my 2017 S. 125k miles, about 10-12% degradation on the battery, started with 2.0. I'll have HW4 (or whatever) eventually if things keep going the way they're going. I've got free supercharging and a sunroof, and no fucking annoying interior camera

Also 2018 with my P3D, back when I believed in the mission and went in as well as my wife. We got in on the stock as well as Tesla solar... back before Elon went full-on weird. I purchased FSD but my wife did not; she's the smart one. Only reason I'm sticking with this car is because it's paid off and it's really nice not having car payment. Even "smart summon" is now useless to me. I used to use it on trash days so I could move the car forward and back from the garage so I could take the bins out, but the latest updates have made it so it rarely works now.

Keep buying batteries for that thing from now until eternity to make Elon buy you new HW every few years lol

AI4 just physically doesn't fit in the space that the AI3 computer occupies. The chips and the cooling are too large. They couldn't make it smaller because it wouldn't have the needed compute power. AI5 will use more advanced chips that may be able to support a scaled down version that fits in the AI3 module bay. The scaled down version won't be as fast as AI5, but it should be able to keep up with AI4.

Unsupervised is yet *public*. You have to wait at least 5 more months to try it in Austin. They're currently running unsupervised at the Fremont factory with cars off the line.

There has been no mention of the need for new cameras, only a new retrofitted computer. Until FSDu comes out, no one will know if new cameras are 100% required, however we do know v13 cannot be run on HW3, hence why they're talking about the need to retrofit the HW3 computer at a bare minimum.

It’s a good thing FSD transfers to your next vehicle. Oh, wait…

Given enough time they probably will be able to use a smaller board that would then fit.

im Getting too much second hand embarrassment, probably keep that to yourself

Keep making the joke. It gets funnier every time.

Did you pay anytime they updated it ?

Smart move at the upgrade time would be free FSD transfer to a new vehicle plus a healthy discount. Get the older car owners to pay for new hardware and make a profit by selling a new car.

Nope.

Tesla would be footing the bill. No reason not to upgrade.

Nah, we didn’t know what we were playing with back then. Not like me or the pizza guy would have held for 15 years anyway.

Definitely not even close to the entire time lol… remember everybody scrambling to get into the beta program a couple years ago? I explicitly remember Tesla Service calling my car old even then and asking what I expected. I’m happy that people can use theirs on their daily drive now - I certainly can’t. I expect it to be half as good as promised.

Comedian over here

Elon has clearly explained by it's vision only in his biography book, not something kind personal preference of him, but technology limit. Also if human can drive with 2 eyes, I see no reason FSD cannot drive with more eyes. FSD is still the best publically available self driving technology, you can blame Elon for his over-promise, but you cannot deny it's Elon that FSD pushed to the state.

The hardware 4 computer is a different form factor and won't fit in the hw3 cars. They'll need to design a new pcb or make the existing hw4 computer fit somehow.

I never said he delivered FSD, and I think there is no company in the world completely resolved self driving. But FSD is still the best publically available self driving. Elon is smart, but he is not the god, he cannot deliver whatever he wished. There is no one can. As long as FSD progress and keeps impressing me, I trust him. If you think he is lying, and if you think Tesla does not worth it, and if you think Tesla does not have the enough value, you are always welcome to short TSLA

To me, and self driving that has its predefined strict limitation of running conditions and physical areas, are not true self driving. Same criteria applies to Waymo. So to me, there is no true self driving yet

But…it’s not FSD? And it won’t be before you sell the car.

Don't care. $2000 is worth it for even just EAP is what I'm saying. I barely ever activate FSD.

How did you get the new cameras? Just purchasing them outright and swapping them in/including the 3 windshield cameras? Wondering if it’s possible to do this on a HW3 Model 3 or Model Y.

This is just a ploy to get people to buy it outright. Don’t believe this shit

TBH, the car is still running like new today. I can comfortably sit on this thing and keep it in good shape for a very long time.

This is a very healthy, level-headed take compared to the usual "doom and gloom" of what could have been. I appreciate you.

Oh definitely, I don't expect that till mid-2026, at the earliest.

I bought in October 2018 for $1,800 and got lifetime unlimited supercharging for my M3P.

A Hugh lawsuit from the tiny fraction of owners who opted out of forced arbitration?

Yeah but they have already been sued for the same thing in the past and they lost, so that’s not going to look good on them if they get sued for the same thing again.

Not functional?!?! I used FSD much, much more than "manuall" driving - it's amazing. And I'm not even on v13, I'm on v12. 2018 M3P.

Still too expensive

We have FSD now. I use it much more than manual driving. What are you talking about?!

You asould re-read what you responsed to, and what you wrote... very. slowly.

You pay for that!?

So…. More lies. He will just wait us out.

Does anyone know the change over date when it went from 3 to 4? Not sure what mine has…

Because they are good cars?

Yeah, I bought it last month on my 2018 X.

No. If you already paid for FSD in your old car you could transfer it to a new car for free. You could also elect to upgrade your old car for free if you wanted to keep it. That was my idea.

Yeah but even those who didn’t buy it can still subscribe to it month to month…

I did not say they shouldn’t upgrade the older cars. If they just gave the option they would have fewer units that would need the upgrade.

Yes. They really need to make it permanent in my opinion. Or at least you get x amount of transfers per purchase.

Not sure what you are saying here. All cars have HWx computers. 2018 cars had 2 (or 2.5?). Since I bought into FSD with the reduced price in 2018 my Model 3 was upgraded to HW3.

My purchases are financially motivated and i hate car dealers

I have a VIN in the 20K range and the car came with HW2.5. I paid for the FSD "upgrade" from EAP in 2019 and got the HW3 computer installed. You have to take it in to get the computer swapped. So, if you didn't do that you probably still have 2.5.

Just traded mine in for a new one this week. It feels like an amazing update…like driving an s. So much quieter, smoother…

There are a very small number of hw3 vehicles that have FSD. Does anyone have precise data?

This^ People keep talking about teslas competition and personally I would love an R1S but honestly FSD has become such a luxury for me that I can’t see myself switching for anything until at least there is comparable tech which so far I don’t see. I’ve had 2 teslas with FSD over the last 3 years and the improvement is crazy, I love summon and I see such potential with reverse summon and no continuous press. Highway driving is basically perfect for me now and city is so close to perfect but still really good.

This is actually a good thing. Sucks that it’s expensive but I have noticed chemical residue from the cars assembly coating the inside of the windshield where the camera housing is. You can’t clean that without removing the housing. I am 100% convinced that a lot of AP, EAP, and FSD phantom issues are because the cameras get blinded in the right humidity by that residue

If only it had been a subscription from the start, would've avoided all the issues. People would be paying for what it's worth to them at current capability. Not preordering something hoping they will get fully functional FSD in time to use it before getting their next car.

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Is he guaranteeing HW4 can handle a fully functional FSD, which we haven't got yet? I'd be waiting.

I’m curious how this is going to play out. I’m assuming there’s a lot of people who bought a HW3 vehicle with the exception that they could use the promised FSD subscription with all the features when it was available.Now they are being told that’s not possible. I’m not a lawyer and I haven’t fully read the purchase agreement, but I’m guessing that’s not going to fly in court. They changing something Elon is documented all over the internet as saying. Anyone who bought a car based off the CEO’s statements has a case.

Rivian and Scout are making interesting vehicles, but they really don't compete in the same league as what's essentially a robot that takes you places with minimal intervention. Of course that's really only been the case for the last several months with FSD. My first FSD experience was honestly a disaster, but it's very impressive now. It's kind of unfortunate more people don't see it this way; if they did, I think the automakers would be forced to compete with FSD and there would be more options at more competitive pricing. GM had Cruise Automation, so they already had a stack that sort of worked. And Mercedes has their system, which is fantastic but very restricted from a legal standpoint. Unfortunately, we just don't have very educated consumers and they think well, my Hyundai or Toyota will sort-of steer on the highway. That's basically like FSD right? And I have friends who own Teslas and they say oh I tried FSD v11 once and I didn't like it so I'm never using it again. When people sit in my car and they see FSD v13 in action for miles, they finally start to understand what it's about and then they get really excited and start to think about how they can get one of these self driving robots. But that is one person at a time, and until there's enough people who actually understand what is possible, Tesla has a big communication gap as to what FSD is able to do and what the general public thinks of it.

They should do half off the subscription for HW3 since it won’t deliver what is promised. I’d pay $50/mo for the current state of FSD in my HW3

He coulda said thank you. But thank you. 🙏🏽.

Nah the only thing “hard” about it is remaking the circuit board to accommodate the old frame and on the bonus people may get the new informant ryzen cpu!

Just bought my third yesterday . It’s awesome - that’s why

I got the new cameras on my 2020 Model 3, they both failed, and were replaced with the new ones (better in low light.)

I assume you are talking about inflation, without any opportunity cost?

The other option should be to just make FSD transferable.

What about all those people that put a $50k deposit down on a Roadster back in November 2017.

Did you pay to upgrade to hw3? How much does that cost? How can I find out exactly what hw a specific Tesla has?

Things he has done haven’t affected stock prices. It’s not like the Bud Light fiasco which immediately took a hit on Anheuser Busch.

In my case it was the offer to upgrade my TM3 from HW 2.5 to 3.0 that brought along FSD. At the time I did not fully understand what FSD could and could not do but for the price it seemed a no brainer as it would extend the life of the vehicle. The OTA aspect of Tesla is the real industry game changer and the features added and improved have left feeling as if my car isn't out of date and still fresh

AI4 is also only for 16V batteries... Well, at least the entertainment computer (AMD Ryzen) is. But I assume it's not much different for the actual autopilot/FSD hardware.

And that is exactly because of business practices like asking for money and not giving the promised features in exchange. Money comes in, shows up in quarterly reports, stock price goes up, product or service is not actually being developed.

Possibly wouldn't even be the wealthiest person in the world. Value doesn't make you the richest person, valuation does, and that depends on promises, beliefs, sometimes lies.

Maybe it's something else then, but the app says I have no fsd computer and I have to pay 1500 bucks to get it installed before I can subscribe to fsd

Oh! A new DLC a see!

I’ll believe that when I see it happening at the Tesla service centers, definitely not based on what comes out of Elon‘s mouth given his history of lying about everything.

I originally paid for the FSD upgrade, this was 2018ish when they announced the price would be going up and we pulled the trigger out of FOMO. In the app at some point we were notified that we were eligible for the HW3 upgrade (no cost) and I scheduled that upgrade with the service center through the app. Later I got another notification that we were eligible for the camera upgrade. Same deal, scheduled the upgrade with the service center and didn’t have to pay anything. The upgrades were “free” because we bought FSD and the features that were promised with that software package weren’t possible with the hardware originally installed in the car. I don’t know if they offer the camera upgrade separately, you’d have to ask the service center.

Sick! When can we schedule Elong?

The most important part for me is if I get to keep steam or not...

It's hard to know what the future requirements are. People making computer cases in 2015 likely didn't know that the NVidia RTC 4000 series video card sizes were going to be. Hell, they probably didn't even know in 2020. That said, what we'll most likely see is Tesla work to design an upgraded computer that can fit into the hole, then call it HW3.5 or something. I'm not expecting a full HW3>HW4 retrofit. That would be a hell of an overhaul.

Man if I could lose this damn Atom processor I’d be a happy camper :)

I wonder if they stuck with using lidar if it would've been ok.. vision only seems like a challenge

I don't mean the stock prices I mean the fact they're on the hook legally to upgrade all these old cars for free now. What a waste of time and resources

I'm expecting that they'll design something new that is analogous to Ai4, but call it Ai3.5. I don't see a full Ai3>Ai4 upgrade, I see something in between. I'll be shocked if it's a full retrofit.

I'd be shocked if we lost the Atom. My understanding is that to get the Ryzen, the cars had to move to the Li-Ion 12v/16v battery in the car. So, unless the retrofit includes getting rid of the lead acid 12v battery, I don't think that's going to happen. That said, if the new FSD Computer has higher power requirements, that option might be on the table.

I believe they are only upgrading for free if you previously paid for FSD. No free HW4 upgrade if you are on a subscription.

No, but they may raise the price for unsupervised FSD subscriptions, while keeping some rebranded FSD subscription available for HW3 at a cheaper price. I don't see them lowering it.

He has discussed this before. The cameras are possible to swap in place, it’s just they need a new computer board that will fit in the old slot. Which probably requires a die shrink. This will probably cost them around $1500 per car to do in parts and labor, which is why he’s saying it’ll be painful

I really think so! I've ridden in a Waymo and I have to say it feels like they solved the problem (in the cities they are in).

Honest. Smh.

That's what they've said but courts previously made them upgrade it for everyone They explained it in the article

It's coming in 2017, but for real this time!

They dont run longer than 7 years?😬

First and foremost, the estimate range is just that - an estimate. Until the car has been driven, been at normal temps, charged from a low state of charge to a high state of charge, etc., the estimate will continue to be less accurate. The better test is to look at a long drive you did in the past and what percent battery it took and then make the same drive now and see the percent battery it consumed compares.

> my 2023 M3 won't be able to use FSD I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion from all the presented information.

They're welcome to ask for that money back at any time.

If I hadn't bought my house and instead invested in TSLA... If I hadn't bought my Porsche and instead invested in TSLA... If I hadn't taken that Hawaii trip and instead invested in TSLA... Come on man, that's pretty dumb.

I don't think AP1 cars ever had that claim, seeing as AP1 wasn't even Tesla hardware.

Ohh I know. But they get $50k back. If they had put it in TSLA instead, it would be more than 10X return.

Wow nice. Mine came with HW3 with purchased FSD so maybe there is no opportunity to upgrade to the HW4 cameras in that scenario

Lucky you, I bought my 2019 M3P in June of last year (random car lot with a deal I couldn't pass up) and already put 13000 miles on it. Commute and driving for work does that

This has already happened with HW2.5 -> HW3. If I'm remembering, people who purchased FSD outright were upgraded for free, others had to pay $1,000 if they wanted the upgrade (for the monthly subscription, etc.).

Well it's not like you've been paying for nothing. FSD at this current point is quite impressive, and very useful for a lot of people.

Have you tried v13 yet?

I’m on HW3. I want to subscribe to (!)FSD. How will Tesla facilitate this once HW3 isn’t supported, I wonder?

Yes I have. It's not ready for unsupervised driving yet and we've been hearing the same promises for about 10 years now. Until it's actually here, I don't believe any promised timelines because every promise so far has been broken.

Shorting Tesla would not be a good idea since Elon can continue making false promises and manipulating the stock price

How was the upgrade process when you did it?

Don’t they also need a new wiring harness?

If you have any evidence of manipulation, feel free to reach out to SEC

No, cameras use the same type of connection so that harness can be reused. It’s more they need a variety of the computer that has the same connections as the HW3 cars.

This makes a lot of sense. It would be a great deal for Tesla and for the owner

Aren't there cameras in different positions as well in newer HW generations?

I’m referring to replacing the cameras. They are in the same place in HW4, but there is actually one less in the front camera housing.

Because they basically had to start from scratch twice to make it work and they've explained that. I guess I just don't understand the context when they promised something that no other manufacturer had ever done and they've clearly made progress towards achieving it. Right now every intervention is basically.. "I don't drive that way, I don't like what the car did" versus "I'm fearing for my life preemptively".

True I heard HW5 might come out soon too

What’s the value of FSD, though, like $500?

I mean market value. You're selling a used car, you have references and comarables like Kelly Blue Book to tell you what it's worth. FSD should be no different. $8-15k retail, worth how much used? It's not like it wears out. But nobody's gonna pay retail for it. So there'll be some market price. Tesla should pay that market price when they take a trade-on on their own vehicles. And whatever they choose to pay should be something we all pay attention to when they price FSD on a new Tesla. Fair is fair, right?

But also SOME eap features have slowly funneled into basic AP over time. Like green light chime and auto-park. Honestly if they would put auto lane change in AP it would be fine for 90% of people. At some point they need to since even basic bitch Kias have the feature now.

I have many doubts as HW4 was created with no intention of us getting an upgrade.

It is, they just roll it out as needed to increase demand

If this sub allows bets do you wanna do a permaban bet on it? If Tesla replaces the hardware for free you'll be permabanned, if Tesla charges for it I get permabanned

And that's assuming he honors his word, which he most likely won't

How to check my Tesla MY is HW3 or HW4? Its 2024 MY Long Range, bought in Jan 2024

I bought a 2021 used Model 3 that came with FSD. Will I qualify since the car already had it?

Musk made that claim that you would be able to do that with your AP1 tesla. It was all over the internet in 2014-2015. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ6lZJWL_Xk Even mentioned (briefly) in this video.

"Painful and difficult" but also very costly for Tesla. That's even without a class action suit by people who bought HW3 cars, but didn't purchase FSDs, but bought with the promise that the car would support FSD via lease or future purchase (there's a previous precedent where a judge sided with a non-FSD owner of HW2.5 where Tesla had to upgrade the car). I'm a HW3 FSD owner, and excited about this, but we'll see how long it takes for this to actually unfold. Honestly at this point - and esp given how long this will likely take - I (like others) would probably prefer the option of transferring FSD to a HW4 car (and we'll see downstream if HW4 cars later need to be updated before FSD/autonomy can be delivered).

Holy shit that hurts

I didn't remember that, but it's been a while and my memory isn't infallible. But seeing as they parted ways with MobileEye in a pretty non-friendly manner due to Tesla pushing the boundaries of the hardware, I'm not surprised AP1 stopped development and didn't reach that level. So unfortunately there was outside influence halting AP1 development.

Tesla would get sued and lose. Customers were promised their FSD would work.

"Haha those stupid idiots who fell for - it'll drive itself across the country with zero interventions by the end of 2017... haha morons who coughed up all that money when I was blowing smoke for the mirrors! Hehe haha ... poor fools!"

I bought a barely used 2020 3LR with HW3 in late 2020. FSD was included, as was the case for most used cars at the time. My battery warranty has 2-1/2 years left. I hope to spend some time with the HW4 retrofit before the battery warranty expires. Then, I can decide whether to risk it beyond the battery warranty. If they want to entice me to trade it in on HW4 or AI5, they can double my trade-in value and offer an FSD transfer even if I buy a used car, not just a new one. I hate buying new cars, and they still don't make a Y with a 48-volt low-voltage system, steer by wire or AI5, so I'm not in the market for anything new right now. But double my trade, and I would hop into a used HW4 Model Y tomorrow so long as it has FSD, or I can transfer it.

> 5 more months to try it in Austin 5 months maybe, 10 months definitely?

All of that is speculation on 2 sentences tho

No it's not like the HW2 to HW3 conversion that I got. HW4 requires new cameras and probably wiring harness and more. It won't be easy.

I think you're probably right but that sounds like a class-action lawsuit, especially since they already did such a conversion for us once before.

a. who is the guy in the picture of the multiple reddit posts of this twitter post? b. ymmv, but my inclination to ever give the actual guy any money, ever again, has dwindled to near-zero.

If Tesla only pays for those who purchased the FSD package to upgrade, they are completely in the wrong and should be sued. I bought my Model Y on the premise that it had the hardware for FSD, and all I needed to do was pay the monthly subscription. I opted for the subscription rather than paying full up front. If Tesla was unsure about their capability, they should not have represented to us buyers that it had the ability to do FSD if you pay for the subscription. My car's value just dropped on that announcement yesterday - it is now unable to do what they advertised it being able to do. Those who bought the car on the premise that the car had the hardware to go FSD with a monthly subscription should be given a credit or some type of compensation. This shall not be limited to those who purchased the full package up front - this is a hardware issue that was misrepresented (whether negligently or purposefully). If I recall correctly, Musk pushed sales by saying your car will pay for itself once the FSD switch is turned on. That is now not true. Whether they knew it or not, they are fully responsible based on their representation. Tesla is no longer the small auto company they were in 2016, they have a market cap over $1 trillion dollars. They should know better and us customers should not bear that expense. The buyers should be made whole and if Tesla doesn't do it on their own not they should be sued. I don't care if it hurts my stock - I know the difference between right and wrong.

And you're OK with this need? You weren't sold self driving with the premise that you're car might be autonomous when it is 9 years old. Musk has come out and said electrical issues prevent upgrading HW3 to HW4, so at the very least, we are looking at a 4.5 or 5 upgrade.  But there are problems with a possible need for a bumper camera and self cleaning of cameras before we can talking unsupervised. This isn't as simple as swapping hw3 to hw4 and we are good. Cars that came out nearly 6 years ago have HW3 and will be out of commission before this promise is even possible.

It’s a difficult question to answer. Do I think Musk was misleading when selling the feature (3 months probably, 6 months definitely)? Of course. But I don’t *feel* misled. I bought fsd knowing that it was non-existent technology, with the promise that it would eventually exist and my hardware would be sufficient to run it. At the time I viewed it as an investment/gamble in the technology for a (relatively) inexpensive fee. I think it was 3k. Over the years, as hardware had been upgraded my vehicle has also been retrofitted. I personally feel like the promise has been kept, but I also absolutely understand why someone else in the same position as me would be angry.

I put about 10k a year on it. I've had it for 2 years

My car has sensors that were disabled when they decided vision only moving forward. There were parking sensors that were disabled and made vision only from then forward. It did not start as vision only; I agree they never planned to use LIDAR but there were still sensors included on my 2018 model 3 that become non functional within two years and made my car worse as a result.

Honest answer is that they won't.

It’s gonna come down to trust These are not going to be perfect, there will be accidents and deaths, question is how much that’s going to affects people’s perception of it (and maybe even the legal frame work they operate in) Are people going to be willing to get into the automated death cab the news os going to spin it as?

You tell me if you want to do this. I'm game. Hell I'll even make a custom flair if you guys don't want to get banned.

To confirm, you're referring to the users who paid for FSD already? You think they will ask for more money? Not to be confused with subscribers of FSD. Is that what you're saying?

It does when they feel like it. I did last December, seemed like migrating it to a newer car had more value. They've enabled the option anytime they are trying to push end of quarter sales numbers. Really it should just be an all the time thing given how much they charge for it.

I've gotten over it lol. I would have sold soooo much earlier than now. I day traded crypto into like 4-5 BTC later in like 2014, then sold them to pay for a special anniversary thing for my wife. If I sold those at $400, I very much doubt I would have held out for $100k lol

No trust

Upgrade to HW3 was free for all HW2.5 owners that had purchased FSD. You can see what you have in the car. Click on the car menu and it will be down the bottom with the VIN and mileage.

Swapping cameras is easy.

When special conditions like when sensors are disabled, you always get alert and you are warned about the degration of FSD. Same as human driving, when facing severe weather, human's driving ability is also degraded. Also anything can have bad time, like not functioning, LIDAR could also have malfunction issue. But we cannot judge it based on such rare unusual cases

There's dozens of us, dozens!

Nah, that's just when the offshore folks will start driving your vehicle for you remotely.

Yeah. I’ve done it before, but it needs to be permanent if the current vehicle is held back without an upgrade.

If you have 3 how much does it cost to update to 4?

Yes it does, Tesla got more revenue from people who paid for a feature that was not delivered, all based on his words, in fact his words and marketing were a big reason for Tesla stock to jump where it is

Well if you don’t have control about it then you shouldn’t promise or advertise it ;)

Buy a gas car

It's so true. Every single autonomous car incident is going to get blown up out of proportion by the media. Never mind that human drivers are sometimes horrific and texting/tiktoking/instagramming all the way. Even including older autonomous vehicle designs (including from failed companies), "A matched case-control design was conducted to investigate the differential characteristics involving Autonomous’ versus Human-Driven Vehicles’ accidents. The analysis suggests that accidents of vehicles equipped with **Advanced Driving Systems generally have a lower chance of occurring than Human-Driven Vehicles in most of the similar accident scenarios**." (Aty and Ding, 2024). (ADS/AVs still need to improve in night driving, though.) I don't think there was ever a single death from Cruise Automation, but GM got blamed even though the **actual crash was caused by another human driver** (and the victim was then thrown/dragged under the Cruise; person survived, another human was at fault, but the media was pointing at GM/Cruise). Like like how EVs are "explosive flaming death machines" when in fact gasoline is much more flammable and gas cars are more likely to catch on fire and cause injury and death. Media, both conservative and liberal, primarily want eyeballs and ad revenue.

elon musk is a grifter

Anyone believed Musk?

I would be betting on Tesla to upgrade the hardware for free for users who already bought the FSD software Meaning that if they do charge those users with hardware 3 money to upgrade it to hardware 4, I would be permabanned, and then if they upgrade it for free, the other guy/gal gets permabanned

I'm up for it if /u/OkAmbassador8161 is. I'd prefer the permaban option, but would settle for a flair

Yeah. It would be nice if they had offered to upgrade those cars since they promised that ability but I'm not holding my breath.

Plus Tesla is going to wait on the data that supports hw 4, before they spend a shit ton of money to upgrade everybody from hw 3, only to find out they actually need ... wait for it... hw 6! Imagine that SOB moment? I remember when hardware 2.5 held all the answers. I know the future feels promising these days with talk of robotaxis across Austin, but until you see the new hardware in action and actually see vehicles consistently driving around without a driver in real life, I think Tesla would be smart to test the new shit 100% before committing millions to retrofit older vehicles. That said, glad Elon's acknowledging the idea they should do something and seem determined to find a way to.

So you're saying that hw3 would be upgraded to hw4, despite tesla saying that the upgrade can't happen due to power differences. I'll say this. Once unsupervised comes and hw4 is needed, if my 2021 myp with paid fsd is not upgraded, i will accept a permaban. I've listened to Elon enough to know this is a safe bet.

That would be hilarious considering there are 2023 HW3 cars on the road

Well sadly it keeps working…

I assume what this means is that you do not have a HW3 computer, which I believe is the minimum required for FSD. So, we are both right? In the car, under software, if the computer is not HW3, then there you go.

I’m in my 7th year waiting for delivery. At this point I can save him the trouble and just return my original purchase price from 2018.

It was too large at the time but they might be able to make it fit now without sacrificing performance through a die shrink. This is of course assuming there are no other requirements that need to be met first for AI4. Honestly at this point if they need to install it in the frunk I would be fine with that.

Mines (M3P) 5 years old and out of warranty. Battery degradation is terrible (although they say it’s normal) 325m down to ~180m. I’ll be running mine into the ground however as I bought it outright. Bring on my HW4. Although being in the UK I might never get to use my FSD

🍿🍿🍿

aware plate yoke nose plucky door cats toy governor sip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

Me: 2018 M3, I also bought FSD for the $2000 upgrade, however that applied to those who had already paid $5000 for Full Autopilot

Swapping cameras on the same FSD Hardware version is easy, however, when going from HW3 to HW4 they changed the camera connectors, since the HW4 cameras are of a high quality. So, while you can easily swap out the cameras from HW2 to HW3, you cannot swap HW3 cameras out for HW4 cameras, you literally have to replace the cabling. *Unless* they release cameras that can use the existing connectors.

In theory... as a Legacy Model S owner... if they do upgrade us from HW3 to HW4 (or HW5) - does that mean everything on the screen would be faster? Media apps, games, etc? Also does it mean that we would get features we are missing such as remote monitoring of sentry mode?

Intel runs off of 12V, Ryzen is 16V. They'll have to upgrade the PCS and battery to get Ryzen to work.

I am actually kind of surprised he is talking about upgrading cars at all. The easiest thing for him to do would just be to slow roll the path to unsupervised FSD on HW3. Just to say “it’s coming, but it will be a while longer than it is on HW4”. I subscribe to FSD primarily because I feel like I get $100/month of personal value out of it right now. I do have HW4, but I think right now the value between the two is pretty close to the same. Even though there is no HW5 yet, Tesla is already putting out a new model Y with a front bumper camera, so sooner or later my car will also have a worse experience. It’s kind of the nature of cars, especially very high tech ones, to get dated and not support all the very latest stuff.

FYI you can buy it for 2k now if you have EAP. Glad I waited and didn't buy it during the first window

Can confirm. I have a 2018 Model 3 with EAP and still have the $2k upgrade offer. I expect it will increase in price after all this. I'm content with my disabled cabin cam (no nag), radar-assisted, HW 2.5 and honestly don't want to pump any more funds into this car after recently spending almost $2k for the infamous PCS replacement. It's still enjoyable to drive even tho my EAP features plateaued long ago.

It’s permanently $2000 for people who got EAP.

You do not KNOW if it will need new wiring to the cameras. Where are you getting that information??

I do not know for a fact, only what I've read. [This reveals specs](https://www.yeslak.com/blogs/tesla-guide/tesla-hardware-4-vs-hardware-3?srsltid=AfmBOooiP1ONiwt6SUvfjTN-ZhJYgP4EZ_Xk6w9OJ6EMEwkZGCNZvVkb) including the use of 5MP cameras. [This redditor comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1h5dzeq/comment/m06nro0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) that those cameras require different connectors, and it requires more power with different power connectors.

Yet somehow intel went from pentium 4 to 12500k and still use the same stock cooler 😂

Oof yea and hw4 gas higher power requirements. Just looked into it. Its way harder than i imagined.

Yea i looked at greentheonly posts and it i deed does use different connections, no idea how the upgrade is going to work. Its alot worse than i thought.  Also…if his stats are true at 700,000 cars paid fad, tesla made over $6 BILLION. Off them. If tesla can keep the costs under $2000 for retrofit they still win…

Here I am still waiting for my RAM upgrade so my 2021 MSLR can run Steam (also as advertised).

When is the official cutoff for buying FSD? Did she say or post on the website?

Any theories here? Do MCU upgrades typically come with the HW upgrade?

He's honored it the last two upgrades .I don't see why he would do anything different this time

> Honestly if they would put auto lane change in AP it would be fine for 90% of people. Oh no... please no. I'd have to quit using autopilot if they do that-- the lane-change thing shows up unrequested when they do the FSD free trials, and although my car doesn't have it normally, there's no way to turn it off until the trial ends (even if you turn FSD off entirely). Maybe it's different with HW4, but it's essentially unable to ever change lanes on my commute. It'll just drive like somebody who forgot their turn signal was on for miles and miles and never actually switch lanes. I *much* prefer the half-manual approach of normal AP, where the turn signal makes the steering resistance softer so that you can manually merge when ready.

I invested about 12 or 13k into TSLA in 2019 and sold it after it more than tripled and it paid for half of my Model Y in 2020 with FSD. I paid 7k for FSD and am happy with it.

might as well have FSD owners to trade in the old models and give away a new modelYP for very first owner or have them replace whole harness with thicker wires and future proofed connectors + front end bumper cam, and replace with improved performance cams all around, brighter rear light when in reverse mode(sometime i can’t even see and so does car and stops summons itself), cams cleaner. i want rear screen for kids at least. they can sell rear screen as option for a reasonable price and, fully motorized seat for rear unlike old model Y. remember after mid 2021 -2023 all tesla were expansive. MYP with FSD was about 80k total as far as i remember.

OK, everyone needs to take a chill pill. I have a HW 2.5. 2018 M3. All my friends back in 2020 had better animation. I took my model 3 in, and they put a new chip in and now I have HW3. It took minutes to make the swap. I’m sure I will get the next swap. I bought the FSD early, and so far they made the upgrade when it was appropriate, and I anticipate them making the upgrade in the future.

Always short on truth.

Tesla increase the price of a used inventory vehicle by $2900 if it has FSD.

Good to know!

"Honest" ? MuSSk?

Spoken like an attorney. Are u an attorney?